What if Harkon WON!? - A Vampire's Tamriel - Elder Scrolls Theory

[@phantom1a2]

Harkon: Disables the sun Sheogorath: Creates a giant cheese wheel that glows just like the sun Harkon: Am I a joke to you?

[@TheReclaimer1321]

Sheogorath: Yes actually

[@p.samedi2473]

Plus it melts and giant drops of liquid cheese keep falling on tamriel. Well why not.

[@tahabashir3779]

@@p.samedi2473 so in other words, it'll rain cheese in tamriel? hell yeah, why the hell not?

[@mikfhan]

Harkon: Fool! The false sun is no threat to us!

[@CtotheOban]

have my thumps up for this great one mate. If all else fails, have trust in the insane.

[@jefthereaper]

Miraak: Finally I have returned to Tamri... Was the sun always so cold and black/red-ish?

[@curtiswong7280]

A Miraak vs Harkon battle would be awesome tho.

[@Dirty_Dan205]

curtis wong miraak would most likely win

[@briandurio6479]

@@Dirty_Dan205 true , you also have to take in consideration the Deadra each person patrons. Harkon would be responsible for spreading Molag's influence across the world potentially buying him some form of favor while Miraak is on hermaeus moru's bad side

[@curtiswong7280]

@@Dirty_Dan205 easily. I mean, he's got 4+ dragons, seekers, lurkers, the minds of the folk of solsthiem, against who? A bunch of glorified two-legged leeches.

[@TomSNC]

@@curtiswong7280 Yeah Miraak would destroy lmao

[@itsjustcris5497]

I was playing Oblivion a while ago and you wont believe my excitement when I read a book talking about vampires of tamriel and saw that the Volkihar were mentioned

[@ЧистоеНебо-ш2ц]

ItsJustCris lol ik is it just outside of the imperial’s prison sewers? In a bandit camp?

[@fyraltari1889]

Immortal Blood, yes. It is in a lot of places in Oblivion and Skyrim (including with Serana's mother, which makes no sense timeline-wise). The main charcater, Movarth Piquine shows up in Skyrim as the Master Vampire behind Morthal's problems.

[@black_hand78]

Ludovic Gelli it does make sense timeline wise because Immortal Blood is about vampire clans and how Novartis was turned into a vampire. It was written before the firms of Skyrim so why wouldn’t it make any sense

[@rayhendrickson8055]

@Mad Max Rockatansky no plot hole, Immortal Blood is an OLD book. Movarth was an ancient vampire, and Valerica had the book in the current timeline...

[@fyraltari1889]

@@rayhendrickson8055 Not that old, read my previous comment.

[@shezmu6928]

Harkon: “You wouldn’t understand” Dragonborn: “Understand what? That without the sun all the plant life would gonna die which would kill all the animals which would kill all the humans which would eventually kill all the vampires?” Harkon: “Wait, what?” Credit to seanzoz on his series “The Senile Scribbles”, which I highly recommend everyone watching.

[@Nob911]

Great series it's like when everyone plays the game and thinks about all the stuff haha

[@chasewillian9010]

Hell yeah my dude.

[@wiggy009]

I’m pretty sure the sun works differently in elder scrolls than it does in the real world

[@CuriousLumenwood]

Did you watch the video? Vampires don’t need to feed on humans to survive in Elder Scrolls. And not only that, magic exists. There are many light spells that act as natural sunlight for crops. And even if, for some reason, you think that magic doesn’t work like that: there are nocturnal plants like Nirnroot which survive just fine without sunlight.

[@dabunnybadass]

yes

[@samwalker4761]

Theory: Molag Bal keeps the mortals as slaves, sustaining them through daedric magic. Vampires who earn his favour through feats of domination (perhaps over other vampires) will be allowed to enter coldharbour periodically to feed on these daedra-sustained cattle. Maybe creating a power struggle between bloodlines and clans to earn their lord's favour.

[@therockingvolbeat3630]

Soul shriven...

[@samwalker4761]

@@therockingvolbeat3630 thanks, forgot the name.

[@Avigorus]

and/or we get a lot more daughters of coldharbour as people realize that the more pure the vampiric bloodline, the less reliance there is on blood, and so they give their daughters, wives, etc to Molag Bal to try and get a chance by extension to become vampire lords themselves.

[@arraelle7453]

Hircine would be like : "Well, let's find a prophecy about permanent full moons"

[@crazyloon6697]

When you think about it photosynthisis can explain the magical properties of plants in the elder scrolls universe since sunlight is the magic of aetherius

[@tada-kun982]

When the lore goes deeper than a dwemer basement

[@kingmenelaus7083]

Are we sure the sun disappears, and isn't simply warped/corrupted by magic to not effect vampires? So maybe plants and whatnot could still survive?

[@theultimatepotatolord6619]

My thoughts exactly! It could be more like a filter and stop certain kinds of light (the ones that are harmful to vampires) from getting through while letting the rest flow freely.

[@somuchtocook9159]

TheUltimate PotatoLord which can basically just make ionizing radiation nonexistent

[@mikfhan]

My thoughts too, a kind of magical redshift of the sunlight, so some plants might die out but others take their place instead. Mortals would likely get more pale skin, but there would still be heat to sustain life and plants.

[@keagasourus9883]

Exactly, because why would vampires do it, because they can still die from the cold as they aren't immune to cold damage so they would eventually freeze to death too.

[@wanderingbufoon]

But the sun and stars aren't the same as ours though. They aren't some gas sphere. They are holes in Mundus. I think the sun is just too powerful of a restoration spell that they burn.

[@dorianshepard2841]

I'm wondering if Hircine would see this as an opportunity to create more werebeasts in some kind of great hunt where vampires are the prey. Since it seems like vampires and werebeasts already disdain each other

[@dutchpangermanist5673]

You're thinking of Twilight

[@dorianshepard2841]

@@dutchpangermanist5673 what's twilight?

[@drago3036]

@@dorianshepard2841 you... Don't need to know. You probably don't want to, trust me

[@andrewpaul8732]

Maybe creating some demigod like hybrid along the way

[@sirsir9665]

He'd he pissed off I think. He's the Prince of the hunt. All the animals are dying out, where's the hunt? It'd be just Vampires hunting the last people and animals with op power, where is the fun in that. Hircine is a somewhat fair deity when it comes to hunting

[@TheRagnus]

Knowing Nords, they'd probably just blame it on the College of Winterhold

[@bigkris2753]

When all else fails. Those damn mages .* Laughs in dragon age *

[@MissRandomNomad0o]

@@bigkris2753 Nords would probably blame the return of the dragons on the mages somehow.

[@TheTrueBigWill]

“Must’ve been the wind”

[@noahking8409]

Thoughts on colonizing Blackreach to survive without becoming a vampire: purge the Falmer and automatons, reinforce and fortify the lifts, use the artificial sun and the bio-luminescence of the mushrooms to cultivate crops and livestock, sustain. Akin to the Forgotten City mod's city but with the benefit of a Dwemer artificial sun.

[@MatthewBaxter88]

Noah King that’s a really good idea, the main issue would be the Falmer coming in from the cities tho. But an excellent solution

[@Aewon84]

Really brilliant, except for the fact those are the very mushrooms that blinded the Falmer.

[@noahking8409]

@@Aewon84 I was suggesting using the bio-luminescence of the mushrooms and the artificial sun to grow edible surface crops, not eating the mushrooms themselves

[@foolofhearts8126]

Noah King Nords: *Settle Blackreach to escape vampires* Dwemer: *Return* "okay.....we're charging rent y'know"

[@moch.farisdzulfiqar6123]

@@foolofhearts8126 Dwemer: *Return "Its free real estate ;)"

[@wargriffin5]

Lord Harkon: (Builds an army of undead) Meridia: "I'm about to ruin this man's whole carrier." (starts spamming dawn-breakers and aurorans)

[@hulCAWmanianUniverse]

A BUNCH OF HANDS TOUCHES THE BEACON!!!

[@adub92199]

Bro meridia would but fuck harkon and he couldn't do shit about it lmaoo

[@Elyseon]

That Ayelid lover can suck it.

[@lardilordi666]

You kind of just rolled over the sun magic. Like if there are spells that can literally create sunlight surely some mage groups could maintain an artificial sun. Of course that wouldn't be enough to sustain societies as large as in the current Tamriel but there could still be some mortals living in small communities in well fortified areas.

[@Ch35h1r3C47]

Also a lot of the mage groups in Tamriel are nonsense-levels powerful. The Psijic are the most obvious of course, but the leftovers of the Telvanni, the High elf mage heirarchy. I could see them rising up and gaining power.I'm actually liking the idea of a Vampiric Nirn with outposts of artificial sun-magic colonies.

[@TheNN]

@@Ch35h1r3C47 Also I imagine that if the sun suddenly 'turned off' a lot of mages would, if turning it back on seemed impossible in the short term, immediately turn their focus to sun magic and creating ways to keep life going.

[@huchung9886]

Ch35h1r3C47 colonize akavir maybe?

[@JordyQ]

I believe he said that the sun is responsible for providing everyone with magicka, so no sun no spells

[@TheNN]

@@JordyQ Well, I'm hesitant to agree with that, at least on a mechanics level, as even when you blot out the sun in Skyrim, your magicka still regens. Also magic restoring potions still work as well.

[@CheechoAswell]

"Alright time to get these assignments done before school holidays end." *iPad lights up in corner of my eye* "Fudgemuppet has uploaded a new video" *slams desk*

[@grapejuice5294]

A moment of silence for our man Cheecho

[@curtiswong7280]

F

[@danielb3573]

Gus Gang walk of shame.

[@timothy8428]

True.

[@samwalker4761]

Molag Bal approves

[@powerthunfischdesdonners3086]

azura disapproves, neverine awakens

[@curvingfyre6810]

@@powerthunfischdesdonners3086 Nerevarine accidentally awoke outside, he has now become stuck in a never ending loop of repeatedly freezing to death, please send help

[@shezmu6928]

I love Molag Bal but there’s a major point on this outcome... SERANA DIES - Outcome Not Approved

[@NamelessKing1597]

Mehrunes Dagon approves the upheaval but dissapproves its permanence.

[@samwalker4761]

@@NamelessKing1597 permanence shmermance. Souls for the dark lord!

[@Dinoenthusiastguy]

I'm a vampire girl in a vampire world Undeath and blood magic, it's kinda tragic

[@kamikage9420]

You made my day.

[@Ghostface00007]

I have the hybrid mod so I am half vampire half werewolf and the true leader of the volkihar clan

[@flaviomonteiro1414]

@@Ghostface00007 Looks Nice! And Edgy!

[@flawless_Cowboy]

Bruh

[@Celestatiune]

I think you'd end up with Harkon (who has had forever to plan this out) setting up, maintaining, and protecting "cattle ranches" of mortals. Vampires in TES may be able to survive without blood, but they certainly are driven to feed. Harkon isn't starving or struggling without the prophecy, so clearly he's interested in improving his power or satisfaction, not becoming some sort of ascetic. Other clans would probably do more or less the same, but Harkon being the planner and first actor benefits him. Resolution would probably come from one of the other Daedra or possibly Aedra, one or ones whose power or condition would be negatively altered by Harkon's domination of the human herd, and as older, more powerful, and (probably cleverer) beings, would thwart him in some way. Failing that, if Harkon does manage to come out on top, maybe he becomes the vampire version of Talos? The Ayelid was a slave-supported empire, so it's not really outside of the lorescope of TES that there could be a vampire-dominated empire with an underclass of mortal cattle/laborers. Finally, this may be the real reason Valerica and Serana abandon his scheme - they prefer their relatively carefree unlives feeding on mortals as they choose and have no desire to usher in an era of extreme competition, betrayal, and political calculation. Sort of like the Anarcho-Primitives of vampirism. They may also simply fear that by directly threatening the worship source of most Aedra/Daedra Harkon is placing vampires in the crosshairs of the most cunning and also the most virtuous beings in the universe. Maybe this is the real worry, that Molag Bal and by extention vampires will end up suffering a similar fate to Jyggalag.

[@mehphala9184]

I’m pretty sure vampires can starve to death without blood

[@bonda3rd150]

If Harkon won I can say goodbye to sun burns so.........hey why don’t we let him win

[@Schemingzy]

I got a bit sunburnt today, which isn't helping me side with the dawngaurd at all 😂

[@legiong792]

I would turn werewolf

[@lostboy5617]

Because plants need sunlight,cows need plants,human need cows,vampires need humans.

[@axlmagnus]

Magic can change plants and animals to adapt to the new environment. If acted upon fast enough, it’ll work. I think a vampire might just do this just so their main source of food isn’t gone.

[@anitarecount5081]

I am deathly afraid of women and children That would explain Isran

[@bronoculars2551]

I have always assumed that the blood sun, just made it so that the vampires aren't affected, not cause plant-life to die and temperature to lower.

[@IamaDinosaur]

Be pretty cool if you finish the Dawnguard quest and permenantly block out the sun and watch Skyrim turn into a Dark Fantasy. Vampires walking around, Slavery would be easier, and etc.

[@TheLilbigBlack]

I think if this were to happen Meridia would bring her aurorans back to combat the undead. Azura and Boethia would possibly get involved also. Hell even the Aedra might give us a vampire slaying version of Pelinal Whitestrake.

[@karandeosingh2356]

even Dagon might return.

[@aetherinfuse]

@@karandeosingh2356 Nope, Tamriel got fully isolated from Oblivion after Martin banished Dagon at the end of TES:IV, and permantent portals can no longer be opened between the two realms. Dagon isn't dead, just vibing in the Deadlands. There is no way for him to physically be in Nirn. He can't come back.

[@keithcreatesmedia6503]

Upvote for more skyrim what if video's

[@kinkgirl88]

Futuristic_ Hendrix hell yea!

[@rayhendrickson8055]

What if the Dwemer returned, and the Falmer reverted back to traditional Snow Elves..

[@chasewillian9010]

He’ll yeah!

[@HamisGood12]

The plants would die due to lack of sun causing no oxygen, but that would be a cop out so Babette would kill harkon and become a vampire queen.

[@Schemingzy]

Babette is awesome :)

[@vincegalila7211]

Remember how the elder scrolls universe work's

[@cageybee7221]

vampires don't need air?

[@insaincaldo]

@@cageybee7221 Hmm.. Serana seems to like breathing fresh air and the player can still drown as a vampire.

[@jbabylucus1641]

@@insaincaldo serana was also sealed underground for decades or centuries inside a stone coffin. She wasn't getting much air in that state. Us drowning as a vampire could probably be just a game thing.

[@alsace5393]

One thing that you're forgetting about Harkon and his ilk is that they are very arrogant. Harkon wouldn't fear the 'lesser races' of Tamriel and would likely attempt to establish himself as the undisputed Lord of Tamriel. This would be the opportunity for men and mer to destroy him.

[@Mister-Thirteen]

Something I've always noticed is that despite the environment going night when you darken the sun...There is still clearly enough light to see, suggesting that the bow corrupted the light of the sun not fully blocking it out.

[@morganmiller3508]

sheogorath would come out of oblivion and stop harkon because he would lose his play things and well you know him being pissed would be a very bad thing not just to mortals but all beings including other deadric lords

[@General12th]

Are vampires somehow less interesting than other races?

[@Drew_Thompson]

Sheogorath would turn harkon into a son of new sheoth.

[@phantom1a2]

Sheogorath would create a giant cheese wheel that glows, and put it in the place of previous sun

[@phantom1a2]

@@Drew_Thompson or just turn him into a new sun that feels the temperature burning him from the inside, for eternity

[@Cherubim666999]

i was actually thinking about how pissed sheo would be as well...and no, pissing off sheogorath is never a good idea

[@wiibrockster]

Can you do more of these "What if scenarios" I think they are really intresting to think about

[@markrandell9602]

The last time I was this early the snow elves were still in Skyrim.... ;)

[@ЧистоеНебо-ш2ц]

Mark Randell lol

[@maxthereapernephilim2416]

I think that if this happened and Vampires started to move upon Skyrim, I think that The Companion's would spring into action, joining the Dawnguard AND recruiting more werewolves. Then, we would get instead of the civil war between the Imperial's and Stormcloaks, we would have the CLASSIC war between Vampires and Werewolves.

[@SenketsuFi]

KILL THE DAY STAR!!!! IT BURNS!!! By the way, tempatures in caves remain constant in relation to outside tempatures.

[@curvingfyre6810]

In absence of an internal heat source. A localized heat source in a cave, here being sun magic, would act on the interior atmosphere differently, because there would be an insulating layer of rock reflecting heat back into the cave air, rather than dispersing it throughout the entire planet. A smaller closed system, essentially.

[@andrewpaul8732]

@@curvingfyre6810 Even an enclosed space would require an initial heat source. In a deep cave the source of the heat would have to be geothermal and therefore not equal to outside space living conditions.

[@curvingfyre6810]

@@andrewpaul8732 Yeah... Thats... Thats the point. Only mages, or people living with mages, powerful enough to maintain a magical heat source would be able to pull that off... That was the entire point. Sure, he also talked about how some fungi would be able to grow on their own in the same way, but that didnt mean PEOPLE would be able to just live that way without a magical heat source. I mean... Mushrooms aren't people.... Right?

[@alistairarrow1769]

the dawnguard disapproves

[@DuskyPredator]

Thinking about it, the subteranian places already do pretty well without sunlight, despite a good deal of frost already on the surface. One would assume you probably could have people running there with Nords fighting the Falmer for land and resources.

[@RKNGL]

Theoretically, Serana's mother would also be a suitable sacrifice to curse the arrows. Both her and her mother are "Daughters of Coldharbor". So Harkon never actually had to kill his daughter.

[@songbird6414]

Not technically no but at the time that Skyrim comes along Harkon had no idea where Valerica was so Serana was his only option or so he thought.

[@normakin8306]

That was my thought as well. Bonus points that he already hated her and wanted her dead.

[@lostboy5617]

@@songbird6414 he'd have to go their to get the second elder scroll

[@songbird6414]

@@lostboy5617 go where? The soul Cairn? Harkon still had no idea where Valerica was and from everything I’ve seen Harkon really had no idea what he was doing. All he knew was that to get what he wanted, there’d be a sacrifice involved, and I believe he “made peace” with the fact that his daughter would have to go long before TES5. He seems like such a narrow minded character that once he’d decided Serana would have to die, that would be it. She’d be screwed if the Dragonborn hadn’t come in and fucked everything up for him. Now, what I find funny is that a sacrifice wasn’t even needed in the first place. We can blot out the sun any time we want to with Serana’s willing help. Hell, she doesn’t even seem all that pained by it, more like a tired “do we really have to do this again?” Harkon didnt technically need to sacrifice anyone and just have his wife or daughter pump out some blood and have a vampire on hand to shoot arrows at the sun every five minutes😂. I’m grossly oversimplifying it but that’s just my own two cents.

[@songbird6414]

@Feras Reverie we use a lot of her blood in game if we want and there’s no consequence like that

[@Nurriek]

I feel like you overlooked Meridia on purpose when touching on the Daedra, specifically as a uniting force, or even a life sustaining one in a world without sunlight. Garbaging the idea of her outright solving the problem, she is a Daedra of light and of life. Her realm is made of the very light of Aetherius, and that light is what sustains life and warmth on Mundus. She would be a uniting force required against the undead, and to summon her, one only needs offer a trophy taken from an undead. Undead slain in trades for the Light of Aetherius, as the Daedra are not fond of benevolence, but have been known to strike deals. She wouldn't outright solve the problem, because that isn't how Daedra do, but that isn't to say she wouldn't reward service. And service would guarantee continued survival

[@oyahzi]

I feel like she would definitely intervene and strike a deal with the dawnguard or something

[@tripps3631]

I had the same thought as well.

[@sindrimyr5351]

In the end all would flock to Lord Mehrunes Dagon, Lord of change and rebellion, to bring about yet again his red legion.

[@sindrimyr5351]

@ pfff if he returns that is

[@dutchpangermanist5673]

@@sindrimyr5351 yes, because the prophecy states, the return of dragons

[@curvingfyre6810]

I mean yeah, have you seen the guy? In absence of a sun, you'd at least want a roommate who brings the fires of hell with him to keep you nice and toasty.

[@dr.calibrations7984]

Personally I'd go to Azura or Meridia. Actually Meridia, she would be MOST DISPLEASED by not only the deletion of the sun but the Vampiric/Undead supremacy. She might just go mad.

[@banethesithari]

@ if dagon gets to nirn before Alduin destroys it the Alduin is screwed. Dagon could easily defeat a mere demi God.

[@rachellake1235]

You forgot that mages can create orbs of energy, like that in the arch mage's quarters, to help crops grow. Many magically adept individuals would be able to keep the crops alive even without the sun.

[@aj9969]

Mages need to eat food to get energy.. and energy can never be created.. without the sun, the net energy will keep coming down over time.. The crops would become less and less productive and finally, they won't be enough to feed the mages..

[@skwiddyt]

​@@aj9969Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore, the net energy would stay the same, or even increase due to the stars.

[@noahpenman3493]

But who’s to say that red sun would kill crops? It would be possible that either crops would grow tainted or mages could create miniature suns without the psijic order.

[@Ker-f4o]

Seriously on Kryptonians would be effected.

[@sp4zt4zt1c2]

If Harkon won it would be because of lag.

[@zealotmaster1]

you know this quest had one big plot hole because I know a guy in a town that can cure you if you have a black soul gem

[@briandurio6479]

Oh that would have been a cool alternate way to take out harkon. Instead of killing him drag him to that guy and have him turn back into a human.to basically become an outcast from his own Court it would probably hunt him to eat him because he was now a food source

[@zealotmaster1]

or better yet a shout to turn vampires into humans or atleast a spell

[@briandurio6479]

@@zealotmaster1 perhaps the dragon shout would be called Breath of Life, and the words of power would be Revak (sacred) Laas (life) Kogaan (Blessing) . The effects would banish/kill lesser undead, like skeletons or low level draugar, cause stronger undead to catch fire and flee, and cure vampires of their vampirism. Thus turning vampiric enemies into common bandits combat wise and story wise curing Harkon of the vampiric condition he worked so hard to achieve.

[@thunderbird7020]

zealotmaster1 I wish we could help the Arch Curate by bringing him to Falion instead of killing him.

[@ЧистоеНебо-ш2ц]

I need your pfp 😞

[@ICUPcomedygold]

And when everyone’s super..... NO ONE WILL BE!! Harkon should take some notes from Syndrome.

[@twiddlerat9920]

Harkon: Conquers Tamriel Pelinal Whitestrake: Here we go again

[@twiddlerat9920]

@@comrade-h8p Problem is, Vampires are a creation, and worshippers of molag bal. That wont go well with pelinal, Plus, they are basically just as cruel if not crueler to humans as the ayleids

[@twiddlerat9920]

@@comrade-h8p You also gotta remember, the ayleids worshipped the daedra too

[@zienwolf]

Pelinal 2: Sunfix Day "Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun"

[@darklord4878]

THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS. It's amazing that this game has been out since 2011 (with Dawnguard coming out in 2012) yet it took until 2019 for a video speculating what would've happened had Harkon won. I was just looking for a video that explored just that and here it is. You're awesome!

[@michaeljeffrey4392]

What about the Hist? The sentient... trees would (try) to sustain their cold-blooded "underlings/friends" the Argonians, but how would that work (assuming the Hist need sunlight to live, and the Argonians need the Hist to live, or would it be more like the Hist recalls all/most of the Argonians like during the Oblivion Crisis to combat the vampires or even invade Coldharbour much like the Deadlands during the Oblivion Crisis...)? "Coincidentally, Argonian armies in Black Marsh were warned of the upcoming Oblivion Crisis by the Hist, and were thus prepared before the Oblivion Gates opened. A radical faction in Black Marsh called the An-Xileel rallied the armies of Black Marsh into fighting the hordes of Daedra invading their home. They poured into Mehrunes Dagon's Deadlands and fought the Daedra on their own turf so successfully the Dremora Lieutenants closed their gates to prevent being overrun" (elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Accession_War).

[@thunderbird7020]

You know what would have been really cool? If we could negotiate with the Arch Curate and help him get cured by Falion. I felt bad for the dude knowing he was screwed over by his god.

[@I3asher]

Wouldn't the Moth Priests instantly realize that a prophecy had been fulfilled and would not every alliance hear of the permanent darkness immediately after?

[@Agent_Chieftain]

If small groups like the Dawnguard could find vampire hideouts on their own, you don't the combined intelligence networks of the most powerful nations in Tamriel could figure it out? They would obviously target Harkon and the Volkihar clan first, killing them all in revenge. After which, there would likely be a massive, joint undertaking by all nations to route out every other group of vampires across Tamriel, to prevent any others from committing similarly destructive acts. This level of vampire hunting would be unprecedented. As it is, vampires need to be careful of small, dedicated organizations of vampire hunters. Committing a whole nation's army to the task would devastate them. Multiple nations? Complete and merciless eradication.

[@DomyTheMad420]

I think that the writers would have chosen a different route. (Sun)light is basically magic, in the form of light. I think they'd say that instead of photesynthesis they used "magic-synthesis" for plants. Any organism that depends on sunlight for chemical processe could very well be explained away by the writers, using this broad theory. As soon as you have that herbivored can survive, so then carni and omnivores can too. Sure crop yields and overal magic would hit dangerous low levels, but life CAN and would survive. Imo.

[@mostevilcoral6568]

I think you're forgetting a few things: for one, Harkon wants to bring eternal night solely for the purpose of him being sick of hiding. He craves power, he desires to rule all, and that was before his Vampirism. Now, being overwhelmed by molag bal's affliction, he desire only to dominate all others. He simply wouldn't be able to resist his cravings for power and would ultimately launch an assault on Skyrim at the first chance he got.

[@Cyberwar101]

Pointing out; blackreach. Funguses in blackreach can be grown for food, like the falmer do. They do not need the sun. Some of the plants and creatures from Morrowind might also be used to living without the sun thanks to red mountain

[@sebastianyu5383]

Photosynthesis is not a thing in the elder scrolls universe. There is no evidence of its existence, and if it was it’d be tied to Kynareth, and therefore changeable so life can continue to survive thereafter

[@drago3036]

Good observation

[@adub92199]

Spitting facts

[@JeffCrowl]

Great video. One other point, if I might: as the living population dwindles, so do new potential vampires. While ageless, vampires are still very mortal in the sense that they can be killed, and unless there's an established truce between them, they're probably still going to end up fighting and killing one another for whatever reason (look at how back-stabby everyone in Volkihar Castle is towards one another). All those Mage-Lights-to-Grow-Crops settlements become increasingly-appetizing targets, for blood, luxuries and potential progeny. Eventually, though, it becomes increasingly-likely that vampires still die off faster than they're able to be replaced. In the end, you probably end up with single, solitary vampires, hiding away from all others, in isolated crypts, scattered around the continent. But hey, at least Harkon gets to rule over... something.

[@cageybee7221]

also perhaps the thalmor would create a sort of bubble around their territory which has a giant magic light ball or something and some kind of mass scale heating for the ocean and land. i said this not as an answer but as a "the thalmor will probably try that"

[@ivans.5959]

The Thalmor will probably want to get turned into vampires, seeing that the new world requires being a vampire to rule they won't loose the chance of denying themselves that power (besides a bonus of being a vampire is having true immortality)

[@cageybee7221]

@@ivans.5959 maybe, but i doubt the thalmor would be too keen on the whole "get corrupted by a daedra" aspect, seeing as how that is a similar origin story to the orcs(edit: and the dunmer too) and the thalmor would not want to risk potentially doing something similar to themselves, especially seeing how they like to view themselves as the last uncorrupted elves against the dunmer and bosmer.

[@ivans.5959]

@@cageybee7221 thinking about it again... I believe they'll split. One Thalmor faction will believe they'll become "even better vampires" due to them already thinking they're perfect. And the other ones will believe what you said

[@cageybee7221]

@@ivans.5959 probably would be a split between the older, more theologically educated elves keeping to their roots knowing the history of elves and daedra versus the younger more radical generation of common thalmor especially in valenwood and the outer isles who would embrace vampirism.

[@itswallzy]

I love your builds and lore videos man. This was something I never thought about either

[@eddythefool]

Two words: elder scrolls. Using them they would figure out pretty easily who's responsible, but that's pretty much plot convenience. There's also the Augur of Dunlain and his prophetic words. At the very least Colette and her restoration magic will finally get the respect they both deserves since a simple healing spell would be all that's needed to tell if an individual is a vampire or not.

[@lodewijkfaaij8651]

That battle royale vid was a good watch ill admit it.

[@CrimsonTear1996]

You should do a part 2 of this, from the viewpoint if since you’re blocking out the sun using magic the sun just isn’t effecting the vampires To explain it, it would be that the sun isn’t off, or gone, it’s just more or less a magical filter preventing vampires from taking negative effects and providing darkness but it’s not blocking anything else I think it would be the only other plausible outcome that wouldn’t involve divine intervention

[@Haru-spicy]

while Meridia is the obvious choice to lead an offensive against the vampires, it should be noted that she has a long-standing grudge with her 'father' Magnus. Rather than restore the sun, it's more likely Meridia would try to *usurp* the sun, perhaps creating a 'false' daedric sun of her own. She is power-hungry and vindictive enough that she would absolutely relish the opportunity to become the new savior of tamriel in order to gain their love - with the implicit threat that she could take away the sun if their love for her ever fades.

[@angesbryant1269]

Merdia kicked molag bals butt in his own realm of oblivion so she would get angry and make a second sun that shots lazer beams at undead

[@adub92199]

I have a feeling the Dawnguard would know exactly whats going on and after months of telling the holds about the vampire problem, this would be enough proof for all holds to get together. They'd know ho was behind i cause the dawnguard have been warning them since the dragonborn was level 10 lol

[@sharpe6]

We’re also forgetting Gelebor, the snow elf. As a devout follower of Auriel and gifted in the magical arts, it’s not unlikely to think that he would be able to know how to reverse the affect. And given that he is the only one who can make sun hallowed arrows, it’s not out of reason to think he could perform the same action on an elven bow, therefore creating a mock Auriels bow, temporarily being able to reverse the affect until they find the real bow. And certain vampires may actually wish to see the world reversed, so they could join the hunt. Throw in the imperial legion, the stormcloaks and other armies, there would be millions of people fighting the vampire menace.

[@KingRumar]

Azura, Meridia, Mehrunes Dagon, Malacath, Peyrite, and even Sheogorath and Hircine will team up to reverse the damage dealt by the arrows. Azura and Meridia especially would have figured out how to fix this.

[@tokujinsicura9507]

I think itd be interesting to write a book about that: a world shrouded in permenant darkness and bitter cold, where vampires rule and mortals are driven into smaller societies in an attempt to cling to life. It idea has a real post apocalyptic fantasy vibe to it.

[@moonwench]

I am a little surprised there wasn't any mention of a group or race or faction that had enough understanding or use of magic to take over Dwemer ruins. There's been hints in game that the Dwemer had Subterranean Farms, and Blackreach shows us that entire ecosystems can exist without the sun on Tamriel. So making use of that resource seems like something someone would think to do in a crisis like this.

[@christophercharles1937]

Harkon takes out the sun. All of Tamriel: where is he? We can't find him. We looked ever.... Meridia: Liar's Retreat

[@LaylaSpellwind]

It's not like the leaders really join together to fight the dragons without the players intervention. I think a world where Harkon wins would be far more interesting to play in.

[@Aewon84]

The Dawnguard would have known who's responsible. The mortal races wouldn't need some grand alliance between all the races to defeat the Volkihars. Tullius and Ulfric forming a temporary alliance would have been enough. Add the Dawnguard (now incredibly popular) and the Companions and the Volkihar are screwed. It doesn't matter whether or not it would change what is going on. Wiping out those who are responsible would have been the first priority. Also, you're assuming no magical intervention in a world with constant magical interventions. There would be magical intervention. That makes your whole video pointless. In the worst case scenario the Thalmor brings the light of the sun back, then takes advantage of their new popularity. By the way, the light of the sun being blocked would not affect temperature, and life would likely adept.

[@blueskull7496]

Within the quest you get ordered to wipe out the dawngaurd so by this point dawngaurd is long dead

[@firetarrasque4667]

@@blueskull7496 True, but don't you still get attacked by random bands of roving Dawnguard even after that, iirc? Honestly, my main problem with the video is that Fudge kind of forgets about all the inhabitants of Tamriel beside Men and Mer. There are other big nasties all over the place. The cults of everyone who isn't Molag probably wouldn't have to work very hard to figure out which fucker has blocked out the sun, Miraak and the dragons are returning in the same timespan as Harkon, the Sload are doing... Whatever it is the Sload do, the same would occur with the Hist. God knows what exists down in Elsewyr. Essentially, Tamriel is a much stranger world than the video accounts for, and even without a grand alliance against you, pissing off large portions of the world still sucks.

[@trashlordsupreme454]

I love the intro. The ominous tone is very fitting to the idea and visuals.

[@SebasTian58323]

I mean taking out the sun and not feeding makes vampires stronger the longer they don't feed. So the longer Harkon was hidden the more powerful he'd become

[@brandicunningham7243]

I love how you still upload amazing skyrim content! Love the work done and amazing lore~! I've been playing tons recently again and it's great to see a skyrim content creator still creating after the years since release :)

[@krimverse5903]

It would be interesting to see how that would pan out in the distant future when proper technology exist, just imagine an empire of space vampires.

[@duelsenpaidip2146]

A video on Madanach would be pretty cool

[@rogimay4959]

I'd be interested in how Akavir would react to this.

[@plasmawolf7960]

Plot twist: Mortals begin to subsist off vampires. It’s not cannibalism.

[@BrewersPackers]

Valuh-REEEEE-ka Sorry, I couldn't resist. Serana pronounces it as "Val-Erica"

[@VeryPoliteNPC]

To quote seanzos, “blocking the sun out will kill all the plant life which will eventually kill all the animals which will eventually kill all the humans”

[@JackAttack15]

You should make a "What if Miraak defeated the Dovahkiin and escaped Apocrypha?"

[@akeemmcafee4556]

Dude you're the main influence of me buying Skyrim again and getting back into it..again. You're awesome 😂😂😂

[@theLetterDoubleYou]

The vamps could always feed on Falmer and even spread them as a crop on the surface. Their society and ecosystem exists without the sun.

[@anraiquarra6638]

This video is awesome dude. Love the analysis it's so detailed

[@FudgeMuppet]

Thank you!

[@RmsdenK]

Any chance for a “What if” Mehrunes Dagon had succeeded in the Oblivion Crisis?

[@aetherinfuse]

Nirn is annexed into Oblivion, the planet just become part of The Deadlands, or Mehrures Dagon just starts a colonization. But it would be interesting to know how Alduin would react, if the conditions of the prophecy (Brothers in war, white tower fallen and snow tower bleeding and kingless) are not needed, and there is just a scheduled Alduin return at the equivalent of 4E 201. A draco-daedric war would be something to behold, and very interesting to think about. I think the Daedra would win, as they just respawn in Oblivion when their bodies are destroyed. Meanwhile the dragons can only be fully killed by a Dragonborn (let's ignore the Mankar Camoran theory of him being Dragonborn because he can equip the Amulet of Kings) but they can be "killed" and buried. So the Daedra win. Otherwise end of times.

[@nehemiahsomers4141]

He did succeed. All Dagon wanted to do was to cause change, and the Oblivion Crisis was a pretty big change. The Mythic Dawn failed but Mehrunes Dagon won.

[@oedipusrex353]

*everyone dies because the food cycle gets fucked up and the vampires dont have a food source* *the falmer start celebrating in their caves*

[@allisonross7608]

I'd love to hear a "What if?" about If Miraak won

[@TB11484]

Vampires vs miraak vs alduin vs the empire vs the stormcloaks vs thieves guild vs dark Brotherhood vs the last dragonborn

[@poky888nuju]

Harkon seems vain enough, that he would proclaim wide and far that he was the one who destroyed the Sun

[@lazilycatharticone4191]

Blocking out the sun permanently should've been a choice the player could make in the Dawnguard DLC.

[@bulldog200]

molag bal gets too powerful, other daedra lords would interfere and deal with him like they did with jyggalag, also I think mages would find a way to unblock the sun, or conjure up some equivalent source of light

[@cursed-dragongaming6798]

The question is what is the opposite of Lord bal because that's what they did to jyggalag and it would make morida happy because now's there's two light based deadra it would be weird

[@IamaDinosaur]

@@cursed-dragongaming6798 *Knock Knock* Jyggalag: "Let me to introduce myself" *While conquering half of coldharbour*

[@kiltedcripple]

The problem: Harkon kills the sun, thus kills plants, this kills vegans, this kills omnivores, this kills carnivores, this kills vampires. The food chain eats itself all the way up with no sunlight. The more vampires that convert, the faster they go through a now finite number of people from which to feed. And yes, non plot armor vampires need to feed, even in the Elder Scrolls games. Even if they hibernate between feedings, they wake up to an empty planet.

[@mattes4929]

Harkon was destined to fall, the writers never intended him to win, that's why he dies which ever side you picked in the DLC. Ehr... I mean, the gods would have never allowed the prophecy to come true, that's why the Last Dragonborn stopped Harkon. Which in return questioned the exsistence of said prophecy, why make it if it is doomed to fail...

[@elvenbredx6012]

what if i join the vampires, Harkon still dies ? how ?

[@MisticHD.]

In my opinion it was something like abandoned child's cry. Pure revenge without proper thinking. Vyrthur just wanted the attention of Auriel. Even if it was stupid, even if it was doomed to fail. Revenge in it's purest form.

[@mattes4929]

@@elvenbredx6012 You kill him

[@elvenbredx6012]

@@mattes4929 wow

[@MrFisher150421]

Of course, we are assuming that 'blocking out the sun' actually causes the plants of Tamriel to stop growing, and that it doesn't just allow Vampires to not be weakened by the sun. For all we know life would resume as normal, just with a darkened, blood red sky and a black sun.

[@user-jj1tb1rp3o]

Just doing dawnguard missions right now.

[@XxRedxOathxX]

Would have been interesting to hear what you thought about the influence on werewolves, there’d surely be a few more of them, perhaps select groups would accept Hircine’s gift and use it as a weapon to repel the vampires so they could rebuild their societies?

[@bacd-nn2lg]

Probably there would be increased number of Werewolfs across the entire Tamriel if Harkon would win. 😎

[@angela_merkeI]

They would die eventually. They need food and oxygen.

[@shadowmoon3062]

Werewolves rule!

[@Mare_Man]

@@angela_merkeI Which they would still have, as darkening the sun doesn't appear to change anything about it apart from stripping it of the divine force that drives vampires into the shadows.

[@amirosipov5381]

Great video Michael💪🏼💪🏼!! Keep doing videos like this, they are very interesting. Could you make another one like this about Miraak or Ulfric?

[@lryiss9407]

5:14 That's some TheEpicNate pronunciation right there.

[@luckieleag4053]

Love this style of video, would love to see a what if Miraak won version.

[@devindickens9321]

What if they find some ancient Dwemer ruins underground that has the technology to grow crops? Idk if you've played the AHO mod but in Sadrith Kagren they were growing all there crops with artificial sunlight.. As a matter of fact, I'd go as far to say that anything could potentially be fixed by old Dwemer technology

[@Martdogg3000]

Dwemer ex machina

[@Rex-The-Wolf]

Also also auriels bow could be re-purrified, the only one alive to possibly know how is gelebor :P and then shoot a sunhallowed arrow whit more power?

[@paladinofthelostdays7392]

What if, and hear me out, the lack of light actually has NO effect. I mean, the sun provides magika, and thus energy. If it is blocked out, but magika persists, then that means energy is still coming to Nirn. This means that the only effect could be a lack of harmful sunlight to vampires, which means that everything could, in theory, stay the same just dark.

[@Aman-ln7pb]

i have never joined lord harkon in any of my play through ,its about time.

[@Nerazmus]

You can't join Harkon. That's the second biggest let down of Dawguard DLC. (The biggest let down is that Harkon caps at level 60. While Vyrthur caps at 75 and random Nighmater Vampire are 65. So much for a Grand vampire boss I guess.)

[@wayloncash1851]

Lord Bal smiles upon you.

[@camerongriffiths8875]

Most of the time during my many Skyrim playthroughs I joined Harkon. I just thoroughly enjoyed the role playing aspects of being a badass powerful and power hungry vampire killing the very vampire that turned me and tried to use the Dragonborn for his own schemes. But from a gameplay perspective, I agree the vampire enemy level caps defs needed to be scaled with the player more effectively

[@Kendosmemeshop]

Interesting story idea. I love it. You guys really are fantastic at this.

[@TheElderScrollsFan88]

Make "What if Miraak won"