Walking London's Lost Rivers - the Black Ditch with Tom Bolton (4K)

[@BritishBoy1971]

A wonderful and soothing video to watch and listen to. Thank you!

[@JohnRogersWalks]

My pleasure Rottie - glad you enjoyed it

[@marsha1963]

What a perfect description - ‘soothing’!

[@roxysimmons]

I’m coming to London in April, after having to be away for 11 years! Can’t wait to see rain again. Thank you for the walk!

[@JohnRogersWalks]

My pleasure Roxy - hope you have a great time in London

[@HarryCoal]

Another wonderful video. Thank you for doing all this John. Quite why you don't have a million subscribers is beyhond me. Your videos are a breath of fresh air in a world of fast media. Peace.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Harry, that’s very kind of you - I just love making these videos and chuffed that people enjoy them

[@Lucysmom26]

I feel like I've stumbled across a gold mine in this channel, especially as I'm currently stuck in the house for who knows how long. I'm slowly making my way through all the videos one by one, late at night before going to sleep. Thank you so much for making them, John Rogers.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Lucysmom - I love making these videos so great to hear that you're enjoying them

[@ashleysgaze]

Brilliant John! A fascinating insight into a hidden (and significant) aspect of London. Tom’s work is profound. Bravo!

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Ashley

[@peterwalton1502]

In the 70’s I used to work in the Gas works in Hartford Street and the way the area has changed is amazing. Thank you for letting us join you on another excellent walk.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks for watching Peter - they've retained some of the features from the gas works amongst the new housing development, it's in one of my videos from 2016

[@a6703]

4:06 so nice to see a lovely working building still & not converted into ‘apartments’. Maria Terrace beautiful houses and all the old buildings!

[@magicknight8412]

We do love our lost rivers! I always keep an eye out for the hidden ones in towns and cities.

[@humble4533]

Another excellent and informative video. Thank you again John for your efforts.Looking forward to the next

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Humble - the next walk is also a collaboration and a great walk

[@timbuthfer]

Fascinating. My daily commute on bicycle takes me through ming Street and saltwell Street. Never knew the black ditch was gurgling below me. Will stop to listen next time. Wonderful history. Thank you John and Tom.

[@danstevens9992]

Right past the school I used to work at. Theres a lot going on around there people do not know about, having explored every lunchtime for a long, long time. Lovely.

[@dras1959]

I looked this walk up because I liked the sound of a river called the Black Ditch. I love these walks and I love exploring London when I visit. Thank you!

[@mariana4059]

Interesting walk - thank you John and Tom. I quite like the idea of these 'collaborative' walks!

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Mariana - glad you like the collaborative walks, shot another on Wednesday in the same area with a great artist, and have a couple more planned

[@howdymartin6258]

There is something very comforting and British about someone staring down a manhole cover then walking to another and looking down that as well -- I will have to put a shelf up to accommodate all the books you recommend John.... London's Lost Rivers is next on the list! Thanks - great walk!

[@carlbradley5260]

John, Congratulations to you and Tom for bringing to life a piece of London’s lesser known history. Cheers, Carl.

[@tommyd5238]

I only just found your channel a couple of weeks ago and now it's one of my favourites, I've lived and worked in London for most of my life and seen so many changes, not always for the best, but revisiting places in detail with your videos is so interesting.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

thanks for that Tommy - there's a new video coming up at 5pm today

[@ringscircles142]

another in your catalog of collaborations for the ages

[@ianmaddams9577]

It must be great to be the company of a knowledgeable fellow as your self . Thanks Tom and John 👍🏻

[@martinlawrence8427]

Another great video John, and thanks for introducing me to Tom Bolton and his work.

[@redfordgrange3507]

Enjoyed this - thanks to you and Tom.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks for watching Redford

[@eileenalderman7773]

Another really enjoyable walk. I had no idea there were so many rivers running into the Thames😊 thank you😊

[@nzd3742]

You've done it again. My walk this week took me across that bridge at Limekiln Wharf and I'd wondered what the story was. Stumbled upon this video two days later and I feel like I'm fully briefed now!

[@JohnRogersWalks]

brilliant!

[@michaelbrown984]

Brilliant any per usual.. something very timeless about following a lost river.. and following the clues....i know what I'm doing in my days of that's for sure...

[@stephencrabtree3161]

Love it. Some nice musings on our psychological relationship with the landscape, great historical facts, and a genial walk through a rich tapestry 👍

[@whollyspokes3645]

Very enjoyable cheers

[@julieblackstock8650]

another very interesting walk,, thank you both very much

[@katcankan7129]

Morning John & Tom ☕😊

[@Liz66bee]

What a wonderful and fascinating video - have just ordered Tom's books, looking forward to learning more about the mysterious lost waterways of London!

[@LiamOFarrell]

many thanks. Brilliant as ever

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Liam

[@robertbarling5601]

Thank you John and Tom for the very interesting video. My mother was born and grew up in Stepney and if she were still here today to see the video I am sure that she would find a lot of it unrecognisable. Bob.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks for that Bob - yes, much change round that area and more still to come

[@kdean9537]

Wonderful video John, so interesting! Enjoyed Tom's story telling as well! Excellent walk! Thank you so much for sharing...take care!

[@JohnRogersWalks]

It was a great day, a real pleasure to make this way - glad you enjoyed it

[@daveconyard8946]

Thank you both for a great post. will be ordering a copy, Dave

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Nice one Dave, it's a fascinating book

[@disenchantedwanderer9033]

brilliant video. I love them all, but the secret lost type ones are brilliant.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Charlie - I plan to do some more when the lockdown ends

[@garymcguire8529]

I know another good topic for lost rivers of London, would be " The Lost Island Of Westminster", Thorney Island. Which was bordered by the Tyburn in the north, running through St James Park. The Tachbrook in the south, and the Thames to the east. The Jewel Tower moat was filled with water , when I was a kid back in the 1960's. So this too may have been part of the river system back then.

[@andrastetriformis6241]

What a grand adventure, thank you for sharing this. ❤

[@JohnRogersWalks]

My pleasure thanks for watching

[@wyvernmodelrailway]

My mother spoke of stinkhouse bridge, now I know where it was, I always thought it was on the river Lea, so you learn something new every day.

[@christopherbutler7588]

Thank you great walk

[@andrewsims4123]

wonderful video , tom is so interesting to listen to , i must get a copy of his book , incidently i like how toms hairy microphone under his face gives him a ''beatnik'' look 😀

[@stevec00ps]

Love those Stink Pipes! Finding them (well, their shadow) on Google Maps helped me follow your route :)

[@JohnRogersWalks]

brilliant

[@xpyres2130]

Very very interesting video. Thankyou!

[@john80c]

Excellent only ever seen Limehouse from old photos and Fu Manchu books great to see it as it is now.

[@katcankan7129]

🚶‍♂️🚶‍♂️An excellent informative walk guys.😊

[@annakissed3226]

I actually haven't watched the video yet, but these videos are themselves amazing recordings of what London was like just prior to the pandemic. I was watching a group from the London transport museum commenting about the old sepia toned photos of South Kensington tube station & thinking how similar it is to look back at a 'lost time' pre-pandemic. If you want a more recent example of this Watch a seventies movie like 3 days of the Condor for all the free history in the streets where they shot the movie.

[@morriganwitch]

Thank you xxx

[@Andrew-ud7nu]

Great video, cheers!

[@rehnafayaz7134]

a beautiful video

[@JohnRogersWalks]

thanks Rehna

[@Road-Tramp]

spot on , thankyou

[@g.t.36]

Great video John

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks G.T

[@ArthurStone]

Thanks; excellent! Hidden rivers a metaphor for Styx?

[@JohnRogersWalks]

I like that idea Arthur

[@Heinz57ish]

was the area around Pennyfields largely an Irish area before the Chinese. Or did the two communities live side by side in the same period?

[@conchamarfernandezrocca1494]

So many Tom boltons

[@MeTheRob]

Really enjoyed this, and recognised a few places. Had to pause to look up the significance of that 'This is the gate of Heaven' inscription. It's to do with St. Paul's church Bow : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Paul%27s,_Bow_Common

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks for the link Rob

[@tomgirldouble3249]

I imagine you guys going out with the divining rods 😂seriously, how are these river routes plotted, from maps?👍 interesting as ever

[@JohnRogersWalks]

We definitely need to get some divining rods even if just for show

[@tomgirldouble3249]

John Rogers lol 😂

[@rupertferguson9673]

Surprised to see that neither of you mentioned St. Dunstan in anything more than passing John. Although, as you correctly point out, the place was originally called 'Stybbanhyð', or 'Stybba's hyð', by 952 St. Dunstan, as Bishop of London, was Lord of the Manor, as the subsequent rededication of the stone church that he had rebuilt over an earlier wooden structure, as St. Dunstan and All Saints, attests: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Dunstan%27s,_Stepney As you probably remember, Dunstan was one of those responsible for crowning a number of those West Saxon Kings on Kingston's Kings Stone, which you visited back in 2019. What isn't usually discussed is that before Dunstan became Bishop of London he had been Abbot of Glastonbury Abbey, and was born at Baltonsborough on the River Brue, which in many ways is still the rural equivalent of what the Black Ditch would have been if it had remained above ground, instead of disappearing into the sewage system: www.somerset-life.co.uk/out-about/places/baltonsborough-the-historic-village-with-a-thriving-community-spirit-1-5646130 Given the connection between Dunstan, the Brue, and the Somerset Levels, where he grew up, it is by no means impossible that the good Bishop navigated his way along the Black Ditch to what was at that time the Church of All Saints whilst going about his Ecclesiastical business. If this is the case it is highly probable that Dunstan, who was also a renowned alchemist and psychogeographer, may have bequeathed to the Black Ditch its name. Alfred Watkins in his 'Old Straight Track' associates names such as 'Blackmanstone', Blackways, Blacklains and others with leys, leymen and the practice of psychogeography. More here: books.google.co.uk/books?id=d31eBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA87-IA8&lpg=PA87-IA8&dq=Blackman+%2B+Blakeman+%2B+Alfred+Watkins&source=bl&ots=Rd5irYnyav&sig=ACfU3U1dBPZo8xi8Ai2JZLommXVf_i_oIg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQ0PqUtpDnAhV0SEEAHeOQBCwQ6AEwD3oECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=Blackman%20%2B%20Blakeman%20%2B%20Alfred%20Watkins&f=false

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Wonderful notes as ever Rupert. I have to be honest that I’m ignorant of the history of the church and even spent some time here with Iain Sinclair who worked in the grounds as a gardener - which surely adds to its psychogeographical resonance

[@garymcguire8529]

Is there any connection with this Black Ditch to Shadwell? The Shad being an estuarine fish.

[@paulmessis1985]

I think the fascination with the Lost Rivers of London, is the sense of losing the landscape to time and yet for the past to be readily available to us in our imaginations... same can be said for lost canals and disused railways also, although they're not there anymore, people can still imagine and I guess, the times these things were more real for people, life may have been far different to our lives now.... its a sort of spiritual escapism.

[@paulmessis1985]

Speaking of which Jon, reckon you could try to walk the Croydon Canal's route???

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks for that comment Paul - wonderfully articulated. I now want to find the Croydon Canal

[@paulmessis1985]

@@JohnRogersWalks You should John, it gives you a strange perspective of the landscape especially around the Crystal Palace area, in the 19th century is must've actually been pretty lovely country-side, I guess those areas would've been the "outer lands" of their time.... I think there was another canal that ran to Peckham too?? I grew up in Uxbridge area but moved to Sussex (now living in North Spain) but before I left Sussex, I managed to get a monument called the Hardham Tunnel listed as grade 2, it took 3 years, but its a protected tunnel now, you should research the canal its on Wey and Arun Canal, the only southern canal, linking the sea to London, disused mostly but folks are working on getting it restored, the Wey South Path, is a brilliant walk, if you had a weekend free I'd recommend it.... However keep doing the London River series, they're pretty interesting.

[@heathcliffearnshaw1403]

There’s a book long predating that called “The Lost Rivers of London” . Did he borrow from that?

[@JohnRogersWalks]

I think it may have provided inspiration but the 1960's Barton book doesn't provide a walking guide to following the rivers - that's what Tom's book aims to do

[@Mouxbar]

Fascinating that old bomb sites still exist. Thought they'd all be developed by now with "affordable" homes (cough!). Thanks to Tom and for braving the weather.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

cheers Mouxbar - there's a huge bombsite right on the edge of Central London currently used as a carpark (with plans to be built on)

[@class387productions3]

The Hogsmil is a lost river

[@redfordgrange3507]

From The Thames to The Tame. Here’s a poem called “Birmingham River” by Roy Fisher: Where’s Birmingham river? Sunk. Which river was it? Two. More or less. History: we’re on tribal ground. When they moved in from the Trent, the first English entered the holdings and the bodies of the people who called the waters that kept them alive Tame, the Dark River, these English spread their works southward then westward, then all ways for thirty-odd miles, up to the damp tips of the thirty-odd weak headwaters of the Tame. By all of the Tame they settled, and sat, named themselves after it: Tomsaetan. And back down at Tamworth, where the river almost began to amount to something, the Mercian kings kept their state. Dark because there’s hardly a still expanse of it wide enough to catch the sky, the Dark River mothered the Black Country and all but vanished underneath it, seeping out from the low hills by Dudley, by Upper Gornal, by Sedgley, by Wolverhampton, by Bloxwich, dropping morosely without a shelf or a race or a dip, no more than a few feet every mile, fattened a little from mean streams that join at, Tipton, Bilston, Willenhall, Darlaston, Oldbury, Wednesbury. From Bescot She oozes a border round Handsworth where I was born, snakes through the flat meadows that turned into Perry Barr, passes through Witton, heading for the city but never getting there. A couple of miles out she catches the timeless, suspended scent of Nechells and Saltley - coal gas, sewage, smoke - turns and makes off for Tamworth, caught on the right shoulder by the wash that’s run under Birmingham, a slow, petty river with no memory of an ancient name; a river called Rea, meaning river, and misspelt at that. Before they merge they’re both steered straight, in channels that force them clear of the gasworks. And the Tame gets marched out of town in the police calm that hangs under the long legs of the M6. These living rivers turgidly watered the fields, gave drink; drove low powered mills, shoved the Soho Works into motion, collected waste and foul waters. Gave way to steam, collected sewage, factory poisons. Gave way to clean Welsh water, kept on collecting typhoid. Sank out of sight under streets, highways, the black walls of workshops; collected metals, chemicals, aquicides. Ceased to draw lines that weren’t cancelled or unwanted; became drains, with no part in anybody’s plan. www.poetrybyheart.org.uk/poems/birmingham-river/

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Wonderful stuff Redford - I still need to come back to Birmingham and walk the canals

[@blossie33]

Thank you for that poem, unexpectedly found in the comments of the very interesting walk - I live in Hackney now but I was born in Perry Barr and I know the river Tame in Birmingham very well!

[@drhowslounge]

London's most lost obscure rivers. Stainers. Tanners. Tanners Lane, Barkingside, IG6. XXX Place. The Band Xx. Castle Maine Xxxx. Roman Revival. XXXX. 40. Mile End Road. River Town > Mark Knopfler > a fantastic record. The Oldest London Bridge and St Peters Church, Newbury Park, Ilford, Essex. Stepney Green. Tudor Mansions > Twinnings Tea near the Liverpool Street Station. Bread Lane and the Great Fire. Monument > Trafalgar Square and Sir Nelson's Column. Boundary Road, Walthamstow, Bakers Arms Bakery Centre of Europe. Haddock > Cod > The black ditch of London Olde. St Paul's Way and the Grand Old Cathedral. St Katharine and Sir Christopher Wren. Stink House Bridge and Ammoniac Aromas

[@dai19721]

there's still bombed out buildings from ww2 still in London. I never have thought it.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

yes there are a few here and there - the car park next to Mount Pleasant Sorting office is actually a bomb site.

[@dai19721]

@@JohnRogersWalks well you learn something every day. Cheers buddy.

[@drhowslounge]

DIck Turpin and the most dangerous highways and Ye Olde Silk Road. Lime Kiln Wharf. Lime House River Traffic. The Bend in the Thames > Tidal Creek > Ghost River > For Real > The Black Ditch, London.

[@EdEditz]

Tom looks a bit like Griff Rhys Jones me thinks :)

[@drhowslounge]

Sirs, Saints, Sinners and Seers. Unnamed Alley and the gravest loss of life of 1914 to 1918. White Horses of Wiltshire. Opiat Undertones in Western Culture. What trip this is turning out to be.

[@davidhallard7427]

Tom looks like Conrad.

[@teabolton]

That is a compliment I will definitely take!

[@chrisdstard5644]

Bill Bailey alert

[@alexanderpeat-diable1411]

he's looking at Waterview House and stating that its hard to see the connection between the name of the building and the local landscape. Can I suggest, as a local lad the building is named after the view if the CANAL that it is built next to. Jesus, I know the middle classes do love to tell the proles all about their own history but this is taking the biscuit..

[@TracyPicabia]

m=0 e=0 perfect🙃