London River Walk | Discovering the Norbury Brook (4K)

[@EileenR11]

Very interesting. Just a couple of nuggets of information about the point where you crossed Streatham High Road and met the newly-named Graveney. That lane is called Hermitage Lane and was the site of a former Hermitage in medieval times. A few hundred years later a civil war battle was fought at approximately that site. So much history and so many stories in the everyday streets...

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Wow thanks for that Eileen

[@ckSport3000]

Hey John, I'm 57, retired US navy with a small pension.. but in my retirement, I've chosen life experience over money. My life long bucket-list.. to live and explore England. This January, I spent a COLD WET month walking and LOVING Portsmouth. I spent February walking and loving Coventry. I spent March and April walking and loving Chatham and Rochester. Your KZbin vlogs have been a huge influence and inspiration, but I am a fair weather wimp, so planning another 4 month stay / exploration in 2025, BUT during the better weather months. Curtis from Las Vegas

[@DadgeCity]

I'm 57 and not retired :-) When you're in Birmingham, say hi

[@mikebarton]

Despite living in London for twenty years I can see I only really touched its surface. 👍👍

[@malaikamillions]

I memorized this at age 10. Still a favorite poem of mine. - The Brook - (Song of the Brook ? ) - Alfred, Lord Tennyson - I come from haunts of coot and hern, I make a sudden sally, And sparkle out among the fern, To bicker down a valley. By thirty hills I hurry down, Or slip between the ridges, By twenty thorps, a little town, And half a hundred bridges. Till last by Philip's farm I flow To join the brimming river, For men may come and men may go, But I go on forever. I chatter over stony ways, In little sharps and trebles, I bubble into eddying bays, I babble on the pebbles. With many a curve my banks I fret by many a field and fallow, And many a fairy foreland set With willow-weed and mallow. I chatter, chatter, as I flow To join the brimming river, For men may come and men may go, But I go on forever. I wind about, and in and out, with here a blossom sailing, And here and there a lusty trout, And here and there a grayling, And here and there a foamy flake Upon me, as I travel With many a silver water-break Above the golden gravel, And draw them all along, and flow To join the brimming river, For men may come and men may go, But I go on forever. I steal by lawns and grassy plots, I slide by hazel covers; I move the sweet forget-me-nots That grow for happy lovers. I slip, I slide, I gloom, I glance, Among my skimming swallows; I make the netted sunbeam dance Against my sandy shallows. I murmur under moon and stars In brambly wildernesses; I linger by my shingly bars; I loiter round my cresses; And out again I curve and flow To join the brimming river, For men may come and men may go, But I go on forever. -

[@wiltaylor]

Thanks so much. beautiful!

[@dianarolph1770]

I really enjoyed reading this - thanks!

[@MawieStevens]

Mother Nature rules,Bless her❤❤❤

[@thelaughlaundry4411]

LOVED the Selhurst mosaic on the wall, loved seeing the real England that tourists rarely see. Seneca is an American Indian tribe in upstate New York where my son lives;there is also a Lake Seneca nearby, Sad that people have so little respect/reverence for their waterways. Like that here in California. Thanks John for what you do. Peace from Kathleen in California

[@janetpendlebury6808]

Seneca was also a Stoic philosopher of Ancient Rome, Lucius Annaeus Seneca. He was accused of adultery with the emperor's niece, Julia Livilla, and was banished to Corsica in 41 AD.

[@Steveoaudioandstuff]

You've done it again John. Not only have you made a gloriously soulful wonderful joyful film, but you've stepped onto some more of my old stomping ground. Memories of late-night sprints from Bensham Manor Road running to Selhurst station to catch the last train back to Wallington, having spent the evening at my girlfriend's parent's house. You flaneured along Kynaston and Boswell - very close! Happy days over 35 years ago. Remarkable how unchanged some of that landscape is. Thank you for the journey John 🙏🏻

[@stuartroyle1402]

that old oak @19,39 could tell a tale or two!!

[@daveconyard8946]

Thanks John Keep Safe .

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Cheers Dave

[@zcam1969]

John you simplify name origins excellently . carry on the great work . Merry Christmas .

[@AMcF54]

Another belter of a walk, John. I share your reverence for these sacred rivers.If only more of them could be freed from the culverts. At least we have glimpses of them, here and there. Here's to greater daylighting. And to many more of your inspirational walks.

[@Akutape]

I grew up along that river and have loved it since my childhood. Many of my homes seemed to coincidentally follows its banks (Tooting, Streatham Vale, and Thornton Heath) and I spent many an hour along its banks in my early teens. In the summer holidays my friends and I would get out the torches and wellington boots and explore the underground bits at Norbury Park, Fallsbrook road, and Amen Corner. As a side note "Graveney" is pronounced Grave-Knee and our school, Graveney School, was named after the river and featured on our school badge.

[@christopherbutler7588]

Great river walk so interesting thanks 😊

[@williamrobinson7435]

Myself, I'm all in favour of a certain degree of license in the designation of watercourses, as I'd rather have poetry than pedantry, although of course there are limits, I mean, if you were walking around in say Wapping, and your friend said "goodness me! Just LOOK at that huge brook there, well that might be a little odd. This bit of London has a v special place in my heart, and as ever you've captured the essence of the place magically in this beautiful film. V nostalgic for me, I really MUST get over there again soon. 1st class as ever. Nice one John! ⭐👍

[@skyboswell]

Thanks so much for this! I lived in Norbury for many years; the park seems hardly to have changed, assuming it's the one near the police station? There used to be a WW2 air raid warning siren on top of the police station, is it still there? The Graveney was visible alongside a substantial old pub/hotel, possibly once a coaching inn, just about where London Road met Streatham High Road. I worked in a small building nearby which housed Hammond Estate Agents and Hammond (insurance loss) Adjusters in the late 70s/very early 80s, and that old pub was where my boss took the staff for a Christmas drink. I can no longer remember the name of the pub, but it was wonderfully old fashioned inside. I hope it hasn't fallen to the dreaded clearance and replacement by substandard modern buildings.

[@Seanchai59]

Beautiful scenery, fine architecture and a river walk; who could ask for anything more?

[@AFCManUk]

Ahh, John! Just what we need after a weekend of craziness in London, and all over our TV Screens. You're a breath of fresh air :)

[@smilevideobritain499]

Lovely to stand and watch and listen to a fast flowing brook.Most enjoyable John

[@katyg4429]

I used to climb over those railings in Thornton Heath Rec to explore the river, with my cousins. Think that is way too many decades ago, to have been us that bent them!

[@ashleysgaze]

John, listened to your conversation on Radio London today, via the BBC Sounds. Terrific! You made some great observations. As for this most recent walk, nice, very nice! ❤

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Ashley

[@user-bt4jg5lh4b]

Thanks John , just bought your book , good Christmas read

[@john80c]

Another excellent video-nice to see a river/brook out in the open. Over here [West Virginia] anything that isn't a river is called a creek.

[@damedavidfrith55]

Thanks for another wonderful walk around London’s riverside 😊

[@wiltaylor]

Ta mate. Nice walk around me old stomping grounds. I very much appreciate it. The God of Norbury brook will be an Old carribean man in a yellow vest with London Borough of Croydon written on it sitting by a manhole with a cup of tea in one of those council tents. He'll have white hair and all his teeth and greet you as you walk past. Thanks. You showed me things I missed as a boy growing up there until 1980.

[@vwright1021]

The Mississippi, The Congo, The Amazon ... and yet John makes Norbury Brook more interesting !

[@keithprater310]

Love the fact that man has tried to tame and control this brook it still shows its power and floods.it has followed our history from the early beingings and will probably carry on when we are gone.great walk.

[@mheuman]

Thanks for showing us around and telling us stories about the Graveney and the Norbrook. I can't wait for the next walk.

[@KeithThomas-f6l]

Hi John, lovely video and very much my old turf where I grew up and went to school. You really have done the place proud. I went to Selhurst Grammar School which later morphed in to the Brit School some years later. South Norwood Libary is a 60`s re-development whose architecture you can argue about ( I love it) but it gave kids like me a place we could access literature that would otherwise not have been available so also a monument to a different type of society. If you want to visit a piece of the Great North Wood where you still get the original feel try Grange Park off South Norwood Hill. I lived right next to it and it was a magical place with its ancient oaks as a child. Most have still surived. Keep up the good work. Makes me feel nostalic for the old town from here in Germany

[@gigteevee6118]

Looking forward to Tooting!!!

[@seanjamescameron]

Will have to explore this area as it’s only over the Crystal Palace hill from me in Sydenham, especially that book shop.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

I thought of you that day Sean and wondered if you knew the allotments

[@TXMEDRGR]

I would enjoy seeing your book launch and the interaction with some fans. Thanks.

[@stephenoliver1437]

The Brooke looks clean John good vid show as usual

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Yes couldn’t smell any pollution

[@darrenrobson5977]

Wonderful John

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Darren

[@TheVellas666]

Almost spat my beer out at the mention of a Tooting walk 💥! Cannot wait. (Lost factories and industrial buildings of tooting and Earlsfield is an nice rabbit hole)

[@Beachcomber95]

Wonderful video as always, John.

[@paulhutchins6019]

I used to buy a Red Rover bus ticket and one of my favourite destinations was Norwood Junction, all the way from Upton Park as the route (40) was extended on a Sunday. I even went on a brand new Routemaster ( long version) once, what a treat that was at the age of 13 😊

[@JohnRogersWalks]

That must have been quite a journey by bus Paul

[@paulhutchins6019]

@@JohnRogersWalks it was John, but I loved just riding round on them all day, with my Dad's Thermos and my sandwiches lol.

[@danielboulton98]

Another lovely suburban river walk ❤ thanks for the love of the river shuttle, it's definitely one of my favourite local wanders

[@luluandmeow]

Hello, your book sounds great, excellent title and cover. You may not know but Fox Hill in Upper Norwood was the subject of a painting by the great French painter Pissarro, who lived in South London, I have a lovely print on my wall.

[@michsmi8297]

Hi John, another very interesting walk ; I was in a bookshop and noticed a very old 6 volume set called "Old And New London " by Walter Thornberry, probably circa late 1800s. Have you heard of it? Perhaps it might reveal or contain some interesting details, it was priced at £65.

[@nadjaberyl1487]

p.s I've read three books from the "Rivers of London" series...and I think they are brilliant. Without your youtube canal I wouldn't know them. So...thank you! I liked "Whispers Under Ground" the most (up to now).

[@marty9011]

Lovely river walk. Also enjoyed the varied architectural styles of the houses along the way. Brook, river , stream, creek, whatever !

[@JazzGuru]

A brilliant video, as always John. The main difference between a brook and a stream is that the former (usually) has a straighter course with steep, high-sided banks. Brooks also tend to be quite level throughout their passage, with only subtle changes in elevation. A stream, however, tends to dramatically meander, often with major changes in elevation due to the landscapes in which they flow. The banks are often shallower, and generally rocky. Note the idea of mountain streams, as an example. I think I've got this right, as I live very close to Horsbere Brook that flows close to the city of Gloucester... Please forgive me if I'm off by any margin... :)

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Brilliant- thanks JazzGuru

[@patrickfallon9143]

​@@JohnRogersWalks9

[@richarddaygm]

brooks babble. streams I think of as being quieter, meandering. Rivers have proper bridges. The norbury brook is more like a channel - totally artificial, rerouted, near zero biodiversity, with the one purpose of moving the water along as quickly as possible. Sorry, but it has no redeeming features other than moving the flooding risk down stream. As for the deity, think God of concrete, God of steel - Richard Granville Jones

[@s125ish]

In Scotland we call them burn

[@shiprapandey43172]

Nor bury park Welcomes to strangers and travelers good walk sir 😊❤

[@SCOTTBULGRIN]

Thank You John for this wonderful walk. Yes please on your book release video, it would be a pleasant addition to our little community. 🍻 Cheers.

[@stephenblake3158]

Lovely walk😊

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Stephen

[@davidshearer8793]

Love the river walks.

[@Gallywomack]

Lovely stuff John - love your river walk vids (particularly south London ones, being a parochial sort!) You mentioned the Croydon canal, there is actually a very short section of the canal which survives, "running" alongside a small recreation ground called Betts Park which is in Anerley. Surprisingly it's halfway up Anerley hill so must be at a reasonable elevation - maybe an excess of locks was one reason the canal stopped being economically viable!

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks for that - I’m planning to walk the Surrey Canal one day so this extends it that walk a bit

[@Gallywomack]

That sounds a good walk! There were some photos floating around on one of the local FB history groups a while back of what is now Surrey Canal Road in Deptford/South Bermondsey, when it was still a canal. The present-day road follows the line of the canal exactly, and what is now the pavement (actually shared use with bikes, part of a 'quietway' cycling route into London) used to be the canal towpath.

[@codsushi]

Great video as always. In the closing shot at the bookshop I noticed a copy of Down amongst the meths men by Geoffrey Fletcher. A great artist and illustrator, and one London's great wanderers and observers too. Thanks Carl

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Can’t believe I missed that Carl

[@helenrushful]

You are welcome to cone and see the Graveny river as it passes through the North Mitcham allotments, i can let you in if you're interested, the site itself is very interesting, being the only freehold allotments in the UK. But also its directly in the border with 3 ancient london boroughs, so is still used for beating the bounds. Love your vlogs !

[@malcolmkinnon8436]

Another nice video John. Nearest you have ever been to my neck of the woods - 5 mins walk from Thornton Heath recreation ground.

[@DagenhamGilly]

Funny you mention Diamond Geezer, I used to visit his web page many years ago, before You Tube became a Vloggers Paradise. I will have to give him a visit.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Please do, he’s great!!

[@diamond_geezer]

Still blogging daily, just without moving pictures :)

[@GeoffArnold1]

The (paper) copy of your book that I'd ordered from a certain large ecommerce merchant just arrived here in the Pacific Northwest of the USA (Vancouver, WA). It looks excellent.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Brilliant many thanks Geoff

[@michaelzoeller9552]

That mosaic is beautiful.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Here’s the video I made about Maud’s work and you can see her making that mosaic kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaC2nH-ro76inLssi=gaW0m8VfVmmzjGCp

[@EnnisDoug]

Great walk lovely scenery and interesting as always John.Have just purchased your book which I'm looking forward to reading,!!!!!

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks so much

[@mattmclafferty6265]

Cheers! Gauranga

[@sianwarwick633]

I like the way your non-planned walks, have a way of producing plans for future walks. 😊. Great walk in the suburbs of south London.

[@EdEditz]

I looked for Diamond Geezer but I could only find a small channel from someone that review books. Btw, what a beautiful shot at 20:50 with the squirrel. :)

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Sorry it’s a blog diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/?m=1

[@LoremIpsum1970]

Thanks, John. Covered areas where I wondered as a teen...when I really shouldn't have been. As you looked like you enjoyed wrapping books, I ordered a second one 👍

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thank you so much

[@chrisblay]

I remember visiting Norbury back in the eighties. Pretty sure it was in Surrey back then. So much of the surrounding counties have been swallowed up by London. Another interesting walk.

[@4thEyeVision]

What a top walk thank you so much John

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Cheers 4thEye

[@richieixtar5849]

Excellent as always, Thank You again ;)

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Richie

[@malcolmkinnon8436]

There is an entrance to something that I thought was a substation that you may have passed just round the corner from that building you saw through the trees. Also that white building on the corner next to the school is now actually an auto repair etc business.

[@markriley4665]

Loved this walk John. Looking forward to the next section on to the Wandle (I walked that from Croydon to its confluence with the Thames 2 years ago).. I love the foot tunnel/subway under Norwood Junction Station - the worlds first reinforced concrete underpass (1912).

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Cheers Mark

[@paull2613]

Thank you John really enjoyed this Thank you. One I've not done, known about itas a Croydon lad, now in Sussex.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Paul - and also for the notes in your other comment

[@andrewwood9635]

Another very enjoyable one. Croydon was a County Borough, geographically part of Surrey but with full County level powers within its boundaries. During the time CBs existed they covered major towns and cities, and had more powers than going down, Municipal Boroughs, Urban District and Rural District Councils. I would like to see/hear one of your launch events. I read and enjoyed ythe book, your written style is rather different from your you tube style - more in the vein of Ian Sinclair. It was a bit of a surprise to read so much about a certain conspiratory comedian in the light of recent events.

[@greghavers821]

nice!! was waiting for you to walk this!! thanks John!!

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Cheers Greg - loved this walk

[@dirtywaterpj_dj]

I now need to see if there’s a video somewhere about how rivers are culverted. Do they build the culvert and then divert the river from its original course into the newly constructed culvert?

[@paull2613]

Croydon was a county borough of Surrey, Croydon Canal came into being late and so failed due to railways, its main undoing was twenty plus locks in quick succession. You rightly point out the railway took over much of its route which wS The London and Croydon Railway . The area by the start of your walk was the Croydon Common. Act of Parliament lost this to the railway

[@sevzas]

6;13 i previously looked into the distinction between "brook", "stream", "creek" and "river" and concluded based on the available information that there aren't distinct characteristics that distinguish these four. There is yet another name for a water flow called "burn".

[@kskssxoxskskss2189]

Another good one. Of course. Btw, some river-revivers have released beavers into the Thames water, with more locations to follow. Perhaps you'll update on this, as you do with daylighting changes.

[@JagBetty]

An excellent adventure John…hat change is essential to keep the napper warm…we’ve got loads of magpies up here.😎👍

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks very much Jag - hope you’re well. I need to catch up on your latest vids

[@Jpkjr52]

Thanks again John in Chicago

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Cheers John

[@dinleyg]

Another ASMR video for me as I work - thanks John (*_*)

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Ah wonderful- I’ll try to include more river sounds in future for the ASMR

[@diamond_geezer]

Thanks John! I thoroughly enjoyed your "urban walking zigzag" through a seemingly-unpromising suburb, yet actually brimming over with interest. I'm glad to have been of help in setting the scene. (and maybe come back and do the Graveney properly in a few years time)

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks so much Diamond Geezer!! Yes definitely want to continue the Graveney

[@davidgrigg472]

I really enjoy your walks. Puts me in touch with areas of London that’s haven’t seen in over 50 years. I have a request. Occasionally you include a map. But the view is fleetingly small, about 5 seconds. Thanks for any consideration. from David in Vancouver. BC

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks David. Noted on the map - I’ll leave them a bit longer on screen in future

[@dianarolph1770]

Thank you! I find the maps don’t stay up long enough!

[@williamclarke2020]

London Everglades? That is funny. When you say. "underground river", are you referring to water course in regards to the man made workings which now have years of construction on them, or do they still exist as naturally flowing courses? I now see why you find this so stimulating. You're playing a hydrologist, landscape enthusiast and urban historian all at once! Love your passion, John ,to help others connect to the world beneath their feet! Cheers to you...and Diamond Geezer. Sounds like a character from a Guy Ritchie film. LOL

[@JohnRogersWalks]

That’s a great description William thanks

[@alisonh6533]

Another local area for me! Lovely walk! Would be amazing for you to do the Graveney walk. My home town!

[@manephewlenny6401]

28:30 would've been a great transition into a sales pitch for someone selling headlamps!

[@paulmessis1094]

For a tiny little stream its pretty fast flowing.

[@davidlaing5321]

I always keep half an an eye out for you on your perambulations when I’m out and about and this must have been a very close miss! Sincerest thanks for highlighting some of the beauty of our oft-maligned part of London. Croydon derives its name from ‘Saffron Valley’ and it’s while hard to imagine fields of crocuses today you’ve reminded us of some of its natural charm. BTW at the Tennison Road bridge at the start you were 50 yards from the blue-plaqued house where Arthur Conan Doyle wrote some of his Sherlock Holmes stories! Thanks so much for another fantastic film. P.s. would love to see your launch video 👍

[@JeanineMarieCompassion]

I love your videos! So charming and informative! Love from Arizona!

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Many thanks Jeanine

[@JeanineMarieCompassion]

@@JohnRogersWalks I need to get your book!

[@GeorgeChoy]

Welcome back John, long time no see, hope the book is selling well.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks George

[@Suho1004]

For me, rivers are the largest waterways, often associated with a basin. Streams are generally much smaller, but can vary greatly in size; in the woods near where I grew up (in the US), there was a waterway that you could jump across at some points but not at others that we called "Giant Stream." A brook, perhaps due to the literary collocation of "babbling brook," always felt to me like it should be running over a rocky bed. A creek (or "crick") has always felt like the smallest of the waterways. That's just my own understanding and certainly not definitive, though!

[@lesliegprice6652]

Another wonderful video , thanks John , where do I find Diamond Geezer cheers ? 💞👍🌈

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Leslie - there’s a link in the description or just google Diamond Geezer

[@michaelmiller641]

Fascinating walk, thanks for that John. my friend will be interested in this walk as he was born in brigstock road and lived in norbury latterly . The tram system in Croydon was finally connected to the rest of the LCC system in, I think, 1926. It had a slightly different gauge to the wheels which up to then precluded through running.

[@malcolmrichardson3881]

Very informative and enjoyable walk. A pity that the Norbury Brook remains in its concrete channel and is not allowed to break out - say in Norbury Park.

[@mungmungie]

It occurred to me to sketch what I think the deity of the local lost river might look like (it runs pretty much beneath my feet). Being a "new world" deity, it wouldn't be very humanoid I think. At one time it might have been a beaver, but now it's morphed into an oversized anthropomorphic raccoon that wears sunglasses, a beanie (touque, to us) and a checkered lumberjack coat who frequents the cafes, sipping espresso and looking at his cell phone. Yes, the deity of Canoe Creek: I'll just have to develop that as a cartoon character. Thanks for the inspiration.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

I absolutely love that

[@godsspiritualwarrior545]

can i ask you what do you carry in your back pack do you have a tent for when i t rains i would love to know thank you i am a great fan of yours as you talk about my home town

[@mikehocksbig]

Great video! One thought, if the pronunciation is the same as the nearby school then I think it’s Grave-ney rather than Graven-ey. But I may be wrong!

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks Mike

[@stuartroyle1402]

refound you again ,,,time for binge watching

[@WalksInCamera]

You weren't too far from a surviving section of the Great North Wood at the start of the walk. Long Lane Wood near Addiscombe is a short bus ride (and a little walk) away.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks I’ll have to go back for another look

[@loriwinters9999]

Really nice tip, thanks for sharing!

[@WalksInCamera]

@@JohnRogersWalks No problem. Actually, linking the remaining sections together as a walk would make a really good video for your channel, similar to the river walks.

[@TracyPicabia]

@23:23 The deity dwelling in that brick building is called Ignacio. He has five heads and is married to rusty bicycle wheel called Tommy.

[@dexadrinepancake]

22:58 looks like it might be a home guard store.

[@paulr7496]

27:50min such a lovely shot.

[@jean-pierredeclemy7032]

We live close to the River Bourne, that'll be the River River 😁

[@robmaher42]

I can't be the only one who watched this with, Here we go 'round the Norbury Brook, the Norbury Brook, the Norbury Brook... stuck in their head.

[@jenanization]

We say Grave ney not Graveney. There is a school with the same name

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Thanks for the clarification

[@michaeldillon3113]

These rivers , though sometimes hidden and obscure , shall still flow , When we with all our hopes , fears and angsts , have vanished, like mists dispersed by gentle breezes , into nothing. ✌️

[@federicotak3300]

Hi John just wondering whether your new book will be available in Kindle edition at some point, as I read your first one on Kindle.

[@JohnRogersWalks]

Hi Federic - it’s available as an ebook through some sellers www.everand.com/book/675683543/Welcome-to-New-London-Journeys-and-encounters-in-the-post-Olympic-city I’m chasing to see when it’ll be on Amazon

[@chrisbates7743]

Brook Stream River in that order, plus local and language variations sich as Bach Afon Avon Nant.