Full Pocket Neck Shims DEBUNKED

[@LiamCreus-bp3bf]

“Mike Adams would like to know your location”

[@totallywiredguitars]

@@LiamCreus-bp3bf BROOKLYN babyyyy

[@PrineGuy]

I've used tapered shims from StewMac with great results. I didn't feel a noticeable reduction in resonance on my Strat copy. But it allowed me to get the action to a level that wouldn't have been possible otherwise. Worked perfectly.

[@ryjtrue77]

I’ve never seen this “ski jump” either. More propaganda for Big Shimming. I’ve always used playing cards folded or credit cards. Excellent video man

[@totallywiredguitars]

lol "big shimming" it's a f'n RACKET

[@frossbog]

I always found masking tape to work extremely well. On a 25.5" scale neck, each later of tape equals about 0.12-0.15 degrees of tilt, depending on the brand.

[@mattwesthaver6909]

Thanks dude this is exactly what ive been focused on. I made my own full pocket shim and was really unhappy with the results!

[@totallywiredguitars]

@mattwesthaver6909 I was really expecting folks to dive in here contradicting me but happy to hear I'm not alone in this perception!

[@rotten_comics]

Great stuff!! I have done this experiment myself and concur with your findings!

[@totallywiredguitars]

@rotten_comics crazy right? Like for what folks charge for these...for a sliver of wood. It's nutty

[@jeremiahmeraz9298]

I installed a .25 on one squier Strat and another .50 shim on another squier Stat for the sole purpose of fixing the action and it worked perfectly. As for Resonance I didn’t even take notice as to what resonance they had beforehand, because they both sounded like crap because of stock ceramic pickups. So when I upgraded to AlNiCo 5 pickups they sounded amazing, so I didn’t even feel like I needed to worry about resonance. I used the Amazon bought ones, by Tosicam, that were solid Maple shims, so the neck would resonate straight through it if it was screwed on tight. I don’t think I have a problem with them resonating because they were solid maple shims.

[@totallywiredguitars]

@jeremiahmeraz9298 this was my thought exactly but found the opposite. But I, and the clients that brought up the issue to me, were very familiar with how their guitars resonated before and after the full pocket shims were installed. That frame of reference I think is crucial on whether folks pick up on this as an issue or not

[@jeremiahmeraz9298]

@@totallywiredguitars yeah, I assume as much, but if it sounds good after installation, then the shim is only there for neck angle purposes, on that guitar. Besides if it mattered what was in between the neck and body so much, the major companies wouldn’t be just throwing random pieces of scrap, card stock, and even folded up duct tape pieces into it, because I’ve found all of the above in them.

[@Gruntle]

The main problem with that Jazzmaster is the red dots on the headstock. Those things would be absorbing the Mojo Frequencies.

[@vw9659]

See experienced luthier Gerry Hayes' (Haze Guitars) online writings on ski jumps. And the fact that in his experience they are often associated with narrow shims. It's not "misinformation". In other writings in forums you will see people sometimes confusing ski jumps with "12th fret kinks". So they're often arguing against the association, based on misunderstanding which particular phonomenom is being referred to. Hayes writes about that too. But no one is ever going to follow 100 necks for 10 years, some with narrow shims and some without, to see if the narrow shimmed ones are more prone to ski jumps. So we'll probably never know for sure.

[@totallywiredguitars]

@vw9659 I've definitely seen those writings and Haze himself was brought up in the talkbass thread that spans 10+ years, from 2014 where Haze wrote his piece in 2019. Haze himself had discussions with another prominent luthier and contributor to that thread, where they had productive back and forth and inspired Haze to write an addendum to his original post. His conclusion: he'll continue to use full pocket shims but even he himself is not fully convinced that his hypothesis that short shims are the culprit behind his definition of ski jumps, is actually correct.

[@vw9659]

@@totallywiredguitars as I said we'll probably never know for sure. But Hayes has had necks with narrow shims and ski jumps (he doesn't say how many). And hasn't mentioned seeing necks with ski jumps but without narrow shims. The association he draws hasn't come from nowhere. The extent of anyone else's direct experience of vintage guitars with narrow shims (old enough to have developed ski jumps if susceptible) would have to be assessed up against his. But given the uncertainty I also like the "pub test" here. What do you think is possible or even likely ? If you put a narrow shim under just the far end of a piece of wood, and then screw that piece of wood down hard (including where the wood is unsupported by said shim), would you expect that piece of wood to bend over time ? Or would you not expect it to bend ?

[@craigridley9618]

I took my 66 pbass to a chap not far from me- who’s very reputable- he put a thin wooden veneer shim at the innermost part of the neck pocket. I didn’t like that he used a drill to tighten the screws, but i digress, i get it home and it became clear within minutes that he’d given it an instant ramp/ ski jump. I promptly removed it, and set the bass up again myself- the ramp was gone. Perhaps it’s a matter of the shim needing to fill the space behind the screws more thoroughly? Perhaps he tightened the headstock side screws first and the bridge side screws second, causing the end of the neck to press into the body while tightening, causing a compression issue like the talk bass forum had described. Who knows. I still have a healthy millimetre of adjustment space on my low e, so i’m all good for the time being 😂 Great video and very informative, i’ll be following up that bass chat thread! There’s a lot of knowledge on that forum! Cheers

[@totallywiredguitars]

@craigridley9618 now this is weird. Ski jump by all metrics and accounts usually doesn't form instantly. There's not enough pressure for wood, or any material to force a bump to develop immediately as a result of placing something in a neck pocket. The term ski jump refers specifically to a bump /hump in a fretboard that once it develops, usually needs to be addressed by removing frets, planing / re-radiusing the fretboard to be straight once more. So if it what you experienced was "ski jump" it certainly would not disappear as soon as you removed a shim.

[@JosePineda-jn8jk]

Hmm, I’ve used all sorts of shims and lately I’ve just relied on full pocket shims because they seem to be more consistent when I tighten the neck down. I haven’t had any issues myself but, I guess I’ll have to remove it on one guitar I have and try to do an A/B test just to see if I find the same thing out.

[@jeremiahmeraz9298]

I used Amazon ones that are solid maple full pocket shims and they seemed fine to me. 🤷‍♂️

[@totallywiredguitars]

@JosePineda-jn8jk curious to know the results my friend!

[@totallywiredguitars]

@jeremiahmeraz9298 those ones were just as s#!+ as the 4x as expensive stewmac ones (at least on vintage spec Jazzmasters)

[@joea9608]

I’ve installed and removed full shims more than a few times over the last couple decades… They always stay removed. Those things are like balsa wood no matter where you get them.

[@totallywiredguitars]

@joea9608 thanks for corroborating my findings!!

[@juaneninternet]

I just put a full pocket shim on a bass vi and had this same feeling. Going to revert it and see if that's it!

[@totallywiredguitars]

I'm sorry to hear that. This is fascinating though. Clearly there have to be some folks that experience the opposite, otherwise how could this have passed the collective litmus test for so long? Could it be an offset with tremolo specific issue? I wonder

[@gloryxkid]

Was a bit skeptical by the title but glad I watched the whole thing! I’ll still probably keep the stewmac shims in the neck of some of my guitars but I won’t be going out of my way to buy more lol

[@totallywiredguitars]

To be fair, my test group for this has all been jazzmasters. Perhaps, with how the bridges are on a strat or tele, it's different...bc it has to have did the trick for at least some people right? Otherwise they'd all be huffing and puffing about it all over the internet. But I think your approach after seeing this is smart. I would be curious, if on yr next setup (on a non offset) if regular old business card shims may result in an even more resonant guitar

[@gloryxkid]

@@totallywiredguitarsI have two jazzmasters, a jag and mustang with a floating trem haha all of them have a full pocket shim. This definitely gives me some ease though, I have a card stock shim on my hardtail Strat that I was meaning to replace but this video def made me wanna just leave it alone haha looking forward to more content!

[@totallywiredguitars]

@@gloryxkid thanks a ton my friend!!

[@gringogreen4719]

Good video and I see your point. Even on my phone speaker I could hear a bit more "zing" with the new shim. I have a full shim on my Xaviere JT 100 Offset (I am learning to up my Luthier skills and rewired the electrics closer to Fender (1 Meg pots, Orange Drop 47 capacitor (preference), Switchcraft jack) to get the most out of the stock pickups. I also added locking tuners and Tusq string trees and it came out ok. I have Stringjoy 12s on it and the guitar has a very warm and full authority to its sound. Now this is my first Offset and I wanted a "dumbed down" electronics and I am mainly a Tele guy and I appreciate the Tele formula (could it be that the JT stands for "Jazzy Tele?!?"). Add to that that it was the best bang for the buck at $250ish that I could get an Offset for at the time. I definitely appreciate the Offset formula as I also play hollow bodies (love that Rockabilly and Psychobilly) so I will be upgrading the bridge and trem (going for the Tele style Haylon bridge and trem set that costs more than the guitar and all the upgrades I have in it) in the future. So I never noticed a "zing" or a resonance that is lacking in this Import guitar when I got it stock. All the upgrades I have done have made it better including the full size neck shim. I also had to do a "fill and redrill" on the neck pocket and neck as whoever drilled the bottom forward hole at the factory (the one hole where getting it right is crucial) screwed up and did it twice so the layer in-between the wrong hole and right hole was spongey and flexible. So that doweled both holes and drilled a new one and it got better. I also shielded the internal cavity (copper foil tape with conductive adhesive) and pickguard which helped reduce noise issues from the pickups. I like GFS pickups for budget guitars (my favorite so far is the Surf 90, basically a DeArmond meets a P-90 in a humbucker size) and the guitar came stock with the Jazzmasters which I know loads of people use them to upgrade Squiers especially. Happy with the pickups, the body is decent, paint looks great, the guitar has a very solid feeling resonance which could be described as "muted" however it never had a zing to mention. I should point out that my favorite pickups are Filtertrons and P-90s so a warm resonance is par for the course. I have had the "ski jump" but only on my current bass guitars. It's to the point they need to have frets removed and get sanded down to fix them. I think its the Arizona desert that plays on that. I do mess around with wiring and setups and I mainly do these on budget Import (Squier adjacent) guitars. I do like JD Moon and Kaish as upgraded switches over OEM since full size switches tend to be too big for Import cavities. I use mainly CTS and Bornes mini pots (usually due to tight cavities)to get the guitars to behave more like Fender, Gibsons, and Boutiques from a "control feel level." Its not the same but for the throw and the dynamics, pretty close.

[@paressehylton]

So cool we have an EastCoast Offset JediMaster YT channel now!!

[@totallywiredguitars]

I am humbled by this comment. thank you

[@Mbp182]

Would this apply to a Jaguar too? Great video thanks.

[@totallywiredguitars]

@Mbp182 yes. And thanks!!

[@euro51116]

Another thing on resonance that ive found, is that satin finishes resonate better than high gloss, no matter how thick. Thats why most relic'd and vintage guitars tend to resonate better, the rougher surface is more porous allowing for more vibration. I once ran some steel wool over the thick poly finish on a squier tele and immediately felt the difference just tapping on the body. though all this resonance shit goes out the window as soon as you plug it in and turn it up

[@totallywiredguitars]

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing. Particularly the "no matter how thick" part.

[@euro51116]

@@totallywiredguitars Maybe it matters if its already a really resonant light wood being dampened by a reall ythick finish lol But generally Poly is a pretty hard finish. Makes a big difference on import guitars imo

[@tonytaormina4759]

Great Video. Thank You, Sir.

[@totallywiredguitars]

Thank you Tony!!!

[@DougMayer]

Huh… vewy intewesting

[@totallywiredguitars]

I couldn't believe it myself. but 4 guitars with these installed that all showcased the same "deadening" effect when it comes to resonance? I've only tested the 1 degree variants, from stewmac to cheaper amazon ones, perhaps thinner ones are better? But what difference would that make if a particular guitar's setup requires 1 degree? My take: if you got old business cards in a drawer that you can cut up, those work wonderfully! not only did you not spend unnecessary money - but your guitar will likely feel more resonant and lively, unplugged

[@vw9659]

Your whole discussion is confounded by your implied definition of "resonance". That is, how a solid-body electric guitar sounds acoustically. You have provided no logical, physics-based explanation for how the acoustic sound relates to how the guitar sounds amplified. BTW you're not the only person who fails to do this. Such an explanation would need to start with the Conservation of Energy Law.

[@totallywiredguitars]

@@vw9659 you should make a video on exactly that my guy

[@sleepingtruck]

Interesting stuff! One question wouldn’t doing a 1.5mm inner pocket old school shim actually be creating a deeper angle than the full pocket 1.5mm shim? Just wondering if we should compensate somehow by making it not as tall… great vid in any case Eddie!

[@totallywiredguitars]

@sleepingtruck thanks my friend! In this case the full pocket 1 degree shim actually was 1.6mm. If the inner pocket version is the same or tiny bit less thickness than the thickest part of the full pocket shim, how is it creating a deeper angle, when the rest of the neck tilts back to full neck to body contact? Do you mean because the thinnest part of the full pocket shim still has some thickness? I think the difference in this case is negligible. I actually had to slightly lower the bridge on this particular example to match the previous action. Hope that helps!

[@sleepingtruck]

Yeah that’s what I meant - because there’s material at the thinnest part of the full pocket - removing that increases/steepens the angle. Gonna give it a try!

[@totallywiredguitars]

@sleepingtruck would love to know how it goes. Question: have you also noticed this kinda muffling / deadening effect on resonance when using full pocket shims?

[@samgiters7201]

Very interesting! How do you feel about angled neck pockets?

[@totallywiredguitars]

I think they're good for the most part, though, if someone likes a lower bridge for less tension (on fender trem loaded offsets) - you either have to reverse shim or reroute the neck pocket which is not ideal

[@negativeland5207]

How did you know I was looking at the stewmac shims earlier today?!

[@totallywiredguitars]

@@negativeland5207 you're welcome 🙌

[@negativeland5207]

I do have some of those novak shims laying around somewhere, might try those out again.

[@totallywiredguitars]

@@negativeland5207 the vintage accurate plastic 60s style ones?? I feel like those would def work better lol

[@negativeland5207]

@@totallywiredguitars Yup! Exactly those ones.

[@S1M0ND0e]

😲😲😲

[@totallywiredguitars]

@S1M0ND0e My experiences and that of a handful of my clients doesn't represent everyone, so take these findings and opinions with a grain of salt and experiment for yourself if curious!

[@tijoelito]

If you wanted to know why you suck at guitar even if you had the best gear of all blablabla...put more time in practice then in your gear! its Fu...simple.

[@totallywiredguitars]

not sure who you're talking to chief, but profound advice 👏👏👏 do you offer 1 on 1 coaching, by chance?