Dun Dun: The Truth About Your Favorite Crime Shows

[@robinleebraun7739]

My spouse, a clinical laboratory scientist with 40 years of experience, has been saying these things for decades. She still loves these shows.

[@kristiskinner8542]

No true crime or scripted crime show helps with the naivete' of juries either. Prosecutors also have immunity from criminal prosecution for withholding evidence, not testing relevant unknown dna at crime scenes, pressuring/threatening witnesses (some of those people arent even actual witnesses, just friends/family of the defendant(s) etc etc etc. Live in Texas and know of cases where all the mentioned above was done & who even knows how many times its been done. Its sickening, but I still watch them all too lol

[@jcanfieldschatz]

I enjoy the shows as well, even though I know for a fact that these shows probably jade my view of how a criminal investigation is held. Going into it, I just know these shows are fiction.

[@charlesstebbins7207]

@Sara Mill What does any of that have to do with forensic science?

[@venusboys3]

@@stevenbrock528 A guy I used to work with, who moved to the police forensics lab, told me about the 'CSI Effect', and how they had to explain to juries about the difference between TV and reality.

[@TheMidwestAtheist]

@@jcanfieldschatz Yeah...it's kind of, I suppose, like how I feel about Marvel movies as an engineer. Though, to their credit, they at least sometimes acknowledge how ridiculous they actually are. (Such as Spider-Man noting in Civil War how Captain America's shield does not follow laws of physics.) A difference for me, though, is that I realize (or certainly hope) that most other people also know those movies are not scientific. I find these procedural shows, however, to be problematic because, as Kristi Skinner had already pointed out, they "help with the naivete of juries." I fear too many people think they're presenting good science.

[@pdhansten]

Sam absolutely nailed it! I just wrote a chapter on this topic for a book against the death penalty, and Sam just covered all the important points perfectly in 8 minutes! Sam would have done a better job than I did on that chapter! Many people don't know that 186 people have been exonerated and released from death row (for reasons of innocence), and many of them were convicted based at least partially on junk forensic science. And the defendants (often poor people of color) don't have the resources to fight back in court. It is a travesty, and thank goodness for people like Sam who are shedding light on it. Philip Hansten, Professor Emeritus University of Washington

[@williamsstephens]

You yourself are one of the crusaders fighting the good fight. Thank you!

[@georgina-a]

I totally "second" Leigh's comment. Thank you for fighting the good fight, Professor 😎

[@free2express08]

Thank you. This is also my dilemma with the death penalty.

[@Trund27]

This sounds like an essential book. I hope it gets lots of press and sales! Good luck and cheers from Canada

[@KerryLuckett]

I am going to look for your book, Dr. Hansten! When I was a child, I wanted to be a medical examiner, specifically Quincy. I am fascinated with forensic science and all its problems and how it is actually conducted in our age.

[@jasonpatterson8091]

I teach a high school forensic science class (not intended to train anyone, just an elective where we try to teach the kids to apply science to something they're interested in) and virtually every time I've investigated a new forensic technique I find exactly what has been described in this video. Trying to point out the fact that poorly done forensic science that is portrayed as a certainty in court is a real problem while also teaching about how it can be used effectively is a weird set of hoops to try to jump through. The one that gets most people is that 1 in 300 fingerprint IDs in the US is wrong.

[@maryanneslater9675]

A century ago when fingerprints were cutting edge technology, we had far, far fewer people in the world and most people never traveled more than 50 miles from home. Now there's a youtube channel dedicated to finding "twins" who aren't at all related. I'm reminded of a friend who was trying to ditch a guy coming on to her in a bar. He took her rebuffs as jokes and told her she was one in a million. She said, "Great. That means there are 7000 more just like me. Go find one."

[@jorged.6357]

Problem with fingerprinting ID is not the the science behind it but the human factor (read the FBI report early 2000s) and that in the US comes along with the poor regulation, allowing loose and exotic rules for positive ID such as "the examiner's leap of faith" which is totally wrong outside the US as there's a methodology and fixed rules for matching two fingerprints.

[@fourcatsandagarden]

ngl a true crime show of hardcore researchers fighting for the innocent people who were wrongly imprisoned because of bad evidence would actually be pretty good

[@northernwildshewolf1729]

Is it a documentary or crime drama? What is the name of the show?

[@styloarmatus5244]

Law & Order: Exoneration Unit, although I don't think reality has much appeal for the consumers of these shows.

[@bethmoore7722]

Create a fictional tv organization like The Innocence Project, and maybe fictionalize or combine elements of actual cases. It would be amazing to see a series about the real “good guys”, about people with moral and intellectual integrity, and nothing to prove but the facts.

[@jebediahrage8273]

Now that would get me back into watching TV.

[@--enyo--]

Definitely

[@--enyo--]

LastWeekTonight did a very similar episode back in 2017. It’s good to get an update, but sad that four years later it’s still a problem despite the fact we know it’s a problem.

[@DSGodiva]

I mean...a big problem with these shows themselves is that they perpetuate the idea that every person arrested for a crime is guilty and that the cops/prosecutors are always the good guys and in the right.

[@lrock48]

The big problem is people watching something meant for entertainment and believe they represent reality.

[@DSGodiva]

@@lrock48 Very true!!

[@KristinaUSA-x5n]

In my experience of being a Jesuit Masonic abuse victim the police and military and courts are infiltrated by secret societies that trash reputations of victims and reward their rights to perpetrators and violate civil rights and use hospitals and corrupt doctors and lawyers and judges and churches and schools and universities and psychologists and psychiatrists to keep control of victims and set up conservatorships and cover up underaged military service and marriages and award parental rights to those that can pay off the judge with black market adoptions with so-called Christian organizations.

[@RandyHawkeye]

Yes, and I would add that it's a feature not a bug. It's why some of us call them "copaganda" shows. They are made in close collaboration with police agencies with the conscious goal of producing exactly the distorted picture of crime and punishment you aptly described.

[@Sylfa]

Just watch an old episode of "Cops", the voice-over just glorifies everything the police does, even if they just disparaged the suspect for doing the same thing a sentence ago.

[@fletchoid]

These unscientific methods will not be easily changed because the FOR PROFIT prison system needs prisoners to be profitable, and the corporations involved will fight change at every step.

[@rhuiah]

And even if you're found innocent (and there are so many ways to sleazily stack the deck against you), 12+ months of your life are likely gone regardless.

[@venusboys3]

That happened to a friend of ours... never convicted, but by the time he was set free it completely truncated his life.

[@maxikelly99]

I about spit out my coffee when you said, “Texas.”

[@cc1k435]

I would guess that when they set this system up, there were somewhat uneducated/science denying police and politicians who for once left it to people with actual knowledge of the matter, because I just can't believe this happened by design. More like passing the buck. I mean, look at the power grid last winter-- Texas isn't exactly scrambling to get ready for the cold even now, with everyone still arguing about who should do what. 🙄

[@alisaurus4224]

As a Texan i couldn’t believe it

[@ykendall9836]

Texas as elected some minority DAs in major cities, including Dallas, who have worked to correct these issues. No surprise, some of the reforms were driven by humongous scandals about negligence and incompetence.

[@elsonlam]

The 2 cities shown on the map are Houston and Austin. Austin is in Travis County, which Biden won 71.7%. Houston is in Harris county, which Biden won 56%. These are solid blue cities. In fact, most populous cities tend to be much more progressive. The rural areas that like to stick to the old ways of life.

[@blackbird5634]

Go to court. Fight every single accusation of guilt by police. Don't let them say ''We already have enough to convict you." Start by understanding that IN SPITE of television Cop shows you NEVER talk to the police. They are NOT your friends. And THEY are legally allowed to lie to you, but if you ''misrepresent yourself'' in any way they will charge YOU with lying to them. It is legal to say: "I don't talk to the police." If they detain you, know your Miranda Rights.

[@fourcatsandagarden]

NEVER talk to the police. This video is a must watch for every single non-cop in America: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ml6aoGyujtVqm6c

[@stevieme8642]

Never trust the police or talk to them if you don't have to. The fact is that they're always looking for something to get you on or use against you. If they are questioning you about your neighbor who committed a crime they're looking to see if you are a criminal too or maybe looking for something they can use to extract information from you. Even if they are good officers you must be careful around them.

[@blackbird5634]

@@stevenbrock528 I've met the cops in my area and they seem nice. I own a small business and my own home and I don't deliberately break the law. So you know, , not on the ''naughty list.'' But my front door and my mouth are closed without a warrant and my attorney present.

[@ChristophBrinkmann]

@@stevenbrock528 Um. You apparently aren't familiar with how any of this works. You are presumed innocent until proven guilty and you are allowed to have an attorney. Period.

[@ChristophBrinkmann]

@@stevenbrock528 And I know you're not even going to understand this, much less agree with me, but cops believe wholeheartedly that if someone says "Lawyer" that means "WE'VE GOT HIM. Nobody would lawyer up that quick if they didn't have something to hide."

[@tzvikrasner6073]

At this point, I'm fairly certain that rather than Lt. Columbo or Det. Lenny Briscoe, the most accurate television portrayal of the average cop is Timothy Olmundson's Det. Carlton Lassiter- a gun-obsessed, needlessly-agressive, overly-dramatic investigator who on rare occasions can actually manage to solve a case where the killer doesn't turn himself in without being led by the nose.

[@jendubay3782]

He’s also my favorite cop 🤣

[@frizzlethecat2084]

Whooo, hadn't thought about that show in years! But .. it seems to be that way, sadly.

[@exoticalBecky_Miami]

The third psych movie comes out this month

[@RandyHawkeye]

Chief Wiggum is one of the most accurate and well-researched cop characters on TV. The least accurate thing about Wiggum is that his son Ralph is not a violent psychopath.

[@chrishei3111]

Everyone needs to watch these videos. This kind of informative, easy going yet hard hitting show is exactly what the world needs. Thank you Samantha Bee and your wonderful team :)

[@Ana2398]

Best talk show EVER!!!!! Besides being super funny it also informs, challenges our believes, expand our horizons and in this case, throws out of window something I held as FACT for so long. Thank you, Full Frontal with Sam Bee!!!! I hope you will keep doing this amazing work for many many years.

[@unsolvedintexas]

As a Texan myself I had to double check that she was talking about the same state

[@tinabean713]

I can only imagine that was a corrective reaction to just how bad the scandals surrounding the HPD crime lab were in the 2000s which continued into the past decade.

[@magdemighty8369]

In many states, there are no qualifications to become county coroner either.

[@patty4349]

Criminal Minds also did an arson episode where the criminal had OCD. The description of OCD and its impact on the arsonist was drastically wrong.

[@j.pitkin2883]

It's a fictional television show. These shows have nothing to do with what actually goes down in our justice system. No jury is basing their verdict on something they saw on Criminal Minds. I also doubt the FBI sends the same five people to any given crime scene.

[@OriginalPiMan]

@@j.pitkin2883 Juries are intentionally filled with regular people, not experts, and the opinions of regular people are colored by the show's they watch. No one thinks that the detailed blood splatter analysis of Dexter is realistic, but people who've watched the show are more likely to think that rudimentary blood splatter evidence is reliable evidence.

[@bethmoore7722]

I absolutely hate it when a tv or movie character’s mental illness is used as a plot device, or a superpower. If someone with actual OCD or schizophrenia watched these shows, they couldn’t match their symptoms to the character. These characterizations contribute to a fundamental misunderstanding of the way a mental illness truly affects your life. It can also lead people to unrealistic expectations or intensify the stigma, especially the way it’s often presented in “Criminal Minds”.

[@Busto]

@@j.pitkin2883 I believe you are mistaken about a jury's expectations & intelligence

[@christinemccrea4371]

@@bethmoore7722 United States of Tara? It's like all this cubed. My favorite part? How the MPD seemingly has no effect-nay, is seen as 'cool' by her family. Maybe it got better. Wouldn't know.

[@georgesos]

This is when comedy meets fact checking. Thank you for your work Samantha Bee !😉

[@NiekBeenen]

This is fact check meets Clapter.

[@kimlarso]

🦋

[@PaulHo]

Sam is always a winner in my depressed book.

[@suzibikerbabe8073]

Then stop calling it 'science', call it 'law enforcement guesswork'' (l.e.g.). So we can start saying, 'I see this evidence has l.e.g.s all over it' and 'This case is nothing but l.e.g.ing'. Also, it ruins 'She had l.e.g.s that never never stopped'.

[@free2express08]

I agree. It's more than disappointing that there are guesses of people taking a "leap of faith"

[@MaryAnnNytowl]

There's actually a show about people wrongfully convicted being freed by experts working to get those convictions overturned. Can't remember what it's called, as I can't watch regular TV any more (long, painful story), but last I knew, they'd saved several lives of those on death row.

[@SolarisCMU]

The Daily Show should've been yours, Sam. You're awesome!

[@uthmanbaksh3530]

If the science is flawed, it shouldn't be admissible in court, especially when the defendant is facing life in prison or even death.

[@alexandraw.4012]

"Tell me more about how Moses lived with dinosaurs" 😆

[@mikeharrison1868]

Actually, all the dinosaurs went extinct after the flood. Couldn't survive in the changed climatic conditions... ;0)

[@mikeharrison1868]

@@stevenbrock528 Well, they would have been on the ark, so should have survived that bit anyway. But I've heard a serious proposal that the climate was changed after the flood, and the dinosaurs couldn't survive. Seems a bit careless of the creator, but then...

[@pluvia33]

Took a second for my brain to process "three thirds the guys I dated".

[@christinemccrea4371]

yeah, rational numbers are hard.

[@TheSuzberry]

Really can’t stand shows where anyone is infallible.

[@oldsesalt8496]

All of these forensic methods could have been tested using double blind tests. Blood splatter patterns created by one group and then analyzed by another group. Did the conclusion match the known method of creating them ? Hair samples collected from a large number of people and then a single sample analyzed to see if it can be matched with its owner. Instead we just coast on basically heresay forensic methods and assumptions.

[@wordzmyth]

Evidence based medicine could teach this.

[@GaiaShield]

That's not what hearsay is but you've got the gist.

[@uosdwiSrdewoH]

I've actually watched so many procedurals that I've even stumbled onto episodes that talk about how some techniques work and that different forensic technicians will get different results because a lot of it is subjective. The lesson is here is watch more TV.

[@ttaylor3rd]

7:48 "...the country didn't add a New Texas or a North Texas or something" lol There's so many I can't quote them all. You the Man Sam!

[@jesuschristthesequel448]

Do a piece on every town that allows the sheriff to be the corner.

[@dickhickey909]

Death penalty should only apply to those guilty beyond ANY doubt , not just reasonable doubt

[@willae1]

i love that yall snuck in a lady fire fighter

[@sventer198]

About time someone said this out loud! Now if only courts would get with the science.

[@GoodMenstruationAttitude]

The Depressed People's Choice Awards!? E!, take my money!!

[@AnMuiren]

Make All Courts, Science Courts!

[@helenamcginty4920]

I always was amazed that not one US tv scene of crime investigator even wore a face mask let alone a very unsexy all in one disposable suit. A similar UK show always showed them in white cover suits, gloves, plastic shoe covers and gloves.

[@DudeGroovy]

Thank you for covering this important topic!!

[@jonathanperry8331]

I forgot about that six flags guy 🤣😂 I literally saw eating in a McDonald's outside of six flags in Maryland. He was so old I was thinking maybe he just dresses like that but I asked him he worked for six flags

[@Hermititis]

The Six Flags Guy was apparently played by a young choreographer (Danny Teeson) so you probably just met a random old guy. Or someone dresses as the character for some reason (costume party)? It's unlikely the real guy was off-site from the shoot for a break (they'd probably have craft services on set), but it's possible.

[@julianmarsh1378]

America and justice are two words that should never appear next to one another.

[@ChristophBrinkmann]

1 out of 4 convictions. That is unacceptable. Our prisons need to be cleaned out now. Better to let 999 guilty and 1 innocent person than for one more innocent person to go to prison for something they didn't do.

[@graceskerp]

My favorite TV crime show trope is "Check dental records". There is no national registry for dental records. So if you have no id, where do you start?

[@robertmaxwell4056]

Psychology is just as vague as bloodsplater reading. Ask multiple psychologist analyst, they will have thier opinions, and none are the. same.

[@emilyasaro1969]

I stopped hearing anything else after seeing the facial hair of the guy at 5:26. Are we all going to pretend like we didn’t just see that?

[@thichthing]

ahahahaha!!!!

[@corynardin]

Too bad we don’t have s a functioning Congress that could legislate.

[@Avrysatos]

This one is probably a state thing.

[@corynardin]

@@Avrysatosthere is a lot the federal government could do. They can ban all kinds of practices, like no knock warrants.

[@Avrysatos]

@@corynardin True but the real change for this stuff occurs at a state level.

[@andrewfranklin5949]

I think that guy's beard is trying to escape his face

[@EMNstar]

This felt very John Oliver But I may be biased as I just watched John Oliver's unofficially named "Prison Collection" boxset of *Last Week Tonight* deep dive segments

[@free2express08]

They always do good work over at Last Week Tonight

[@brianmcmanus4690]

An embarrassment of riches.

[@esmeralda478]

So glad you talked about this.

[@mewho8057]

There needs to be a police procedural about clearing wrongfully charged people, or resolving wrongly solved cases

[@TheAmazingEevee]

Didn’t even discuss how A polygraph can absolutely throw the entire case in your favorite vice versa EVEN THOUGH they’re not allowed in court anymore! But amazing show!

[@christinemccrea4371]

polygraph is good cop/bad cop with only one cop. also invented my the guy who made up Wonder Woman a hundred years ago. I'll laugh at one.

[@LowellMorgan]

DAs be complaining that juries have unrealistic expectations for forensic evidence due to these shows. Outrageous that juries expect prosecutors to present evidence for their case.

[@Jin420]

I didn't think *ANYONE* would discuss this topic. 🤯💯 #ThanksSamantha

[@brianedwards7142]

The biggest counterfactual is the idea that cops will investigate.

[@ryanprentice]

Homicide Life on the Street is one of the best shows ever. It seems like people have forgotten that it exists.

[@douglashenry6996]

DNA analysis is a long, time consuming and expensive process, and yet these shows always seem to come up with the results before the next commercial break.

[@nHans]

03:50 Lemme guess ... you couldn't pay for Ice-T saying _"That's messed up"_ either?

[@italiahockey]

America, such a dreamy place

[@greggibbs3639]

Cop and detective shows should come with a warming - "Advertising for the Police Ahead."

[@ttaylor3rd]

0:36 she points up: "that was $45,000" lol

[@teresathayn5170]

Yeah, that's why it's called "junk science". I dig the Oxygen and ID channels!! Bring it!! And experts say whatever they're paid to say, regardless! That's insane!

[@NickDBaker]

Also my friends, never forget that it’s called Iced Tea, and also Iced Cream! Otherwise, they’re just made out of ice! Get it together people

[@willfreese]

John Oliver turns green with envy over those five Bleakest Comedy awards.

[@RocLobo358]

I had a friend who was a shameless cop and loved to brag about how good he was at misleading suspects about the strength of their evidence using fake CSI lingo. He's probably still a shameless cop but he's not my friend anymore

[@NewMessage]

Expected a graphic for the 'Clean and Easy' bit.. thankfully, none were shown.

[@kimlarso]

😂

[@riquisimx]

$45,000 for a grunt. lol Smh

[@hurdygurdyguy1]

I laugh at every bit of "analysis" on every crime show, NCIS (and the offshoots), CSI, Bones, Criminal Minds etc especially at the (nonexistent) tech they all use, the photo/video "enhancement," the fingerprint/facial recognition stuff (what agency has the budget for all those huge flat screens??!!) and the speed at which it's all done 🤣🤣🤣 It all has nothing to do with reality and EVERYTHING to do with moving the story along quickly.and making the lab work seem sexy and cool when it's actually a lot of grunt work and boring... It's TV, it's all about entertainment

[@michaelccozens]

Sure, but that doesn't let them off the hook. There's responsible and irresponsible entertainment. If you're doing harm because you're too lazy to make your show work without it, you're a monster. "Song of the South" was also entertainment, but I doubt you'll find a lot of people willing to stick their names beside a presentation of it that isn't specifically a deconstruction/debunking. "It's all about entertainment" is just another form of that "I was just kidding" dodge bullies learn around first grade. Harm is still harm, intended or not. Responsible people who legitimately do unintended harm tend to be horrified about it and eager to correct it. They certainly don't just do it again.

[@badger1296]

08:04 I'm depressed and I love your show!

[@themarbleking]

Is there any situation in which America is not corrupt? Any?

[@tradrudeboy]

There are similar parallels with musicology and other audio analysis. It often boils down to which side has more money to hire "better experts."

[@diannabryzicki7111]

I constantly ruin those shows for my family members by pointing out the flawed science. I leave the room now for their fantasies.

[@johnfraser8116]

Science rules. Your comedy does too. You are awesome!

[@RoqueJohnny]

Crime shows are the only guilty pleasure that comes with a guilty verdict. That makes it even more guilty and I love them!!!

[@neilbarnes7537]

We need to go back to basics. It’s simple. You throw the suspect in a river and if they float they’re guilty and if they drown they’re innocent. This woke obsession with science has gone too far 😂

[@12shecat2]

I have just one question. Why am I learning all these truths from comedians and not the news?

[@mainemade73]

He doesn't chase squirrels, he chases the dragon🤣😂🤣😂

[@glasstumble1677]

Well obviously. 1) it's a TV show. 2) criminals also watch these.

[@Freaky0Nina]

Maybe. Just maybe. The decision whether someone is guilty or not should not be put in the hands of 12 random lays with no clue of how evidence works.

[@chwilhogyn]

Netflix: The Innocence Files

[@amarisfrede2]

"Sure this is the same Texas?" X to doubt 🤔

[@daintycaked]

Oh yeah forensic files has a lot of incorrect stuff that I've realized after watching it, reading about bad forensic science, and watching the episodes again. So much bad science. I still watch it though.

[@prisonmike4971]

3:54 Iced T....fantastic hahahahaha

[@earnthis1]

Thanks for this!!

[@getrealnow73]

I don't watch crime shows yet the was this report is a riot, thank you

[@badger1296]

Great show Sam!

[@heartofdawn2341]

The prosecutors in the Rittenhouse trial aren't being allowed to zoom in on video evidence in case they "enhance" the image with AI and add things that aren't there. Which is not how any of this works

[@elizabethwhite1068]

I saw some of that. I was stunned by the complete stupidity.

[@jebediahrage8273]

Yeah, that judge might as well be on the defense payroll.

[@philoctetes_wordsworth]

Yeah. We love them so much, Dexter just made a comeback (with an added horror/sci-fi element-I won’t spoil it for others…), and the CSI-Vegas franchise just launched. I understand Dexter, but I truly despise that other thing. There is real acting in Dexter, and complex, well-written stories. The other one is just glamorous, extremely difficult to see violence against (mostly) women.

[@largedoglover99]

It was particularly difficult to eat my corn chips during this video.

[@wayneurquhart1967]

You need to get your priorities right.

[@jjmblue7]

I feel bad whoever had to make that Scab Tasting graphic.

[@imogen1]

I keep leaving KZbin on autoplay & it just sends me to a dweeby English gent in a void telling me depressing things about my country.

[@Lapusso650]

I can’t believe a professional writer wrote “disproved” instead of “disproven”🙄

[@masteryoda394]

45 000 dollars? Seriously?

[@TouchofShunshine]

I would just make up my own sounds or get public domain music. Beethoven has some creepy sounds in his music.

[@ge569]

It's a joke lol

[@masteryoda394]

@@ge569 😉

[@hojichaisfarsuperiortochai9309]

My thought as well. Texas??? Progressive??? I live here.

[@redmed10]

I feel so smug now. I've been saying this for years. Never watched these csi shows. Always been a joke to me.

[@whatabouttheearth]

Military vets: "hollywood makes inaccurate portrayals of people? You don't say"

[@matthewmcneany]

$45,000 well spent if you ask me.

[@stevenpiontkowski220]

This lady is so funny.

[@Sockcucker96]

Hey, Texas has potential!

[@saralynfosnight5139]

Years ago, when I was a production editor at Holt, Rinehart and Winston, I worked on a book by an expert in blood spatter. He made a name for himself by proving that Huey Newton was assassinated by the police in Chicago. It's not an easy task to prove, even so.

[@free2express08]

8:03 The Depressed People's Choice Awards? 😂

[@mortsnerd6053]

How many crimes have gone unsolved because of bad science

[@awwhellnaw8214]

Iced T...? 🤣🤣🤣😂 Good friend indeed.

[@blakejones409]

OK... you sold me... AUTOPLAY!