G. Edward Griffin: Individualism & Capitalism vs. Collectivism & Monopolies

[@madmercenary]

You succinctly explain our current paradigm. You did an excellent job of explicating your ideas into a laymen terms as pretty much as possible, Kudos.

[@ArthurPonzarelli]

"The combination is here to stay. Individualism has gone, never to return." -John D Rockefeller

[@marisafari1806]

"free market" capitalism _becomes_ corporate monopoly capitalism when the state turns from protecting all individuals from all other individuals to protecting an opulent powerful minority. It is up to individuals "collectivizing"- through assemblies, democratized work, and protests - to force the corporate state to once again be representative of all. The true difference is between *consolidated power/authoritarianism* (this can be state, private, or a state/private hybrid which is what we have) vs *democratic power/power of individuals/libertarianism*.

[@robertbilka1542]

In Socialism (Communism is its extreme form). All natural resources belongs to all. People can vote through direct democracy, what should economy produce. Decisions are not based on money, but on available resources and peoples priorities. Human essential services must be provided as non-profit for all. Everyone can still privately own non-production properties. In Capitalism, free market without regulations, always ends as monopoly and as state Fascism (which is extreme form of Capitalism).

[@buildinganincome]

@annihilationHaven competitive advantage requires a differentiation strategy. When a market is segmented using differentiation, competition rules

[@anthonytravis1420]

love this guy.

[@coinlord420]

What are some examples of businesses having laws passed which give them advantages over their competitors?

[@UDRF]

It's amazing that a person can have such black and white views. For the shades of gray that this guy doesn't want you to know about take a look at Norway and Sweden.

[@moistrebetz]

Right on G. E.

[@arcad1an292]

Peoples can exist without currency, money and much of today's nonsensical ways of trading/ relating with each other. Individualism can exist without ownership or capital.

[@gbtisdall]

@eyeseethroughyou: Your comment was the most inane I've read all week. Cheers!

[@aenubis666]

@LandlessPeasantFuck So, bearing your previous knocks on gold backed currency in mind, you actually think fiat currency, printed, or conjured into existence at the fractional reserve discretion of the private banking institution that stands to profit off of loaning it into circulation is a working system?

[@thekoollemon]

@anatureperson if you decide that the government is above the law then it isn't

[@EternalRecursion]

@TheLastAnarchist69 ... of the dollar. It's not nefarious, it is just part of a hugely complex economic machine that is, unfortunately (the machine, that is) subject to manipulation in unethical ways at many levels.

[@johntheadams]

No, Edward, the private banking system isn't related to capitalism, just as you aren't.

[@ABSmdegaray]

@aenubis666 Profit constantly stifles abundance?? In an effort to make more profits, capitalists strive to decrease the cost of productivity of their goods in order to offer it to the masses. Capitalism is the reason for abundance. Also, voluntary exchange in the free market is mutually advantageous. It is a "positive-sum game," not a "zero-sum game" where somebody wins and somebody loses. Imagine how much money you could make if you found the cure for cancer? Profit+Helping others is Capitalism

[@EternalRecursion]

@jaysonbuckley I defy you to illustrate one meaningful comment in this video beyond the casting about of labels in the use of ad hominem declarations. As if there is an either/or dynamic in living: either you're an individualist or a collectivist. Bullshit! Every person living in a society, that is, anyone NOT a hermit, seeks the balance between community and autonomy. That life is actually complicated is just TOO BAD. Idiots like this who want to propose that the complexity is somehow due ...

[@oucanemailme]

@LandlessPeasantFuck What would you like me to prove? Glass Steagall, see Tom Woods 'Repeal of Glass Steagall Irrelevant.

[@Histonia]

Would you anti capitalists stop confusing capitalism with mercantilism and corporatism? Those are three completely different terms. Capitalism ONLY means private ownership of property (means of production). Mercantilism is the belief that governments must protect, at all cost, their peoples' economic investments. And corporatism is the idea that collective interest always supersedes individualism. Capitalism is not directly synonymous with ANYTHING other than private ownership.

[@baydood510]

@affilinet Companies cant screw you over because its fraud. That's exactly what Griffin was trying to explain. Same with drug abuse. Capitalism has shown to be the best in providing prosperity for the middle class, Poor people starve in every society. Guns can be obtained easily anywhere, wouldn't it be worse if a "weirdo" got his hands on an illegal weapon and innocent bi standards where defenseless? People would have to be awake and moral for this to truly work out though, like any society.

[@ericmilligan6603]

Yes. This is the ideal option for the future of humanity. The market system (capitalism or not) is obsolete compared to what we can do if we co-operate to produce the best possible life for everybody.

[@Elroi3310]

If you don't hold it you don't own it .

[@katelinstanersen1425]

im individualistic veiw...

[@harris2898]

1) "In socialism and communism (note that they have little to no similarities, yet you chose to make them look like the same thing) there's no private property, which is outlawed.." Moronic example of an individual completely ignorant of the leftist ideologies and economic systems, very commonly met in pretty much ALL of the USA. In SOCIALISM (communism is COMPLETELY different) the private ownership of the MEANS OF PRODUCTION are prohibited, not the private property all together. It would be COMPLETELY insane to enforce a law that prohibits private property. 2) You claim that in socialism the state is nothing more than an oligarchy that consists of a bunch of "administrators" that control the public means of production, thus taking away the right from the people to "own" the means of production, am I right? First of all, the state in a socialist society is completely modulated and controlled by the people, due to DEMOCRACY ( a greek word which directly translates into "the power of the people" or "the state of the people"). Democracy means that the parties ruling the society have to follow, understand and obey the needs of the people (as the institution dictates) and they have to represent the ideas, opinions and ideals of the peoples they SERVE by ruling. Now, when the means of production become public, the state will be able to fully control how they will operate, and since the state is FORCED to work for the people, the people will be able to control the means of production, even if that happens passively. That's the whole idea behind socialism. The abolishment of the capitalists that corrupt and practically "murder" the human societies and the enforcement of public "dictatorship", as some "intellectuals" choose to name socialism. 3) "Socialism is a part of a world wide game that wants the people to lose ownership of everything" or some bullcrap like that. If that were true, would we still be under the "kingship" of greedy enterprises that create dictatorships, destroy nature, cause poverty and death, corrupt governments and all that in the name of CURRENCY..? Your pathetic efforts to protect the current economic system are simply laughable. You distort the leftist ideals on a whim and then base your arguments on false assumptions and misconception.. A typical modern economist, or whatever these things call themselves nowadays..

[@joncomas]

Well put, obviously you know a lot about socialism vs capitalism differences, but nothing about the similarities between both, this guy spend the last 50 years of his life researching about those similarities and came to the conclusion that, at the core, they both are the same along with fascism, Nazism etc. (They are collectivists systems). Go and read more about this and you'll see that what you wrote here comes straight from your emotional point of view and little knowledge about the topic. (Sorry for my bad English).

[@harris2898]

Jonathan Comas So according to mister Edward Griffin, that thing that calls himself an economist, Socialism, a political, economical and social system that converts a society from capitalist to communist, Capitalism, an economical system that enables individuals to get their hands on immense amounts of wealth and finally Fascism which is NONE of the previous types of systems, are ONE and the SAME? Hm, one has to wonder.. Just how stupid can someone be?

[@Ap0lly0n7]

And you are a narcissist.

[@MaluseedGrowers]

@faro0485 so you don't think each person in a family should have their individual freedom to life and pursuit of happiness?

[@skibumwilly1895]

In “Occupying Chairlifts” a simple rule tweak on inheritance ends up changing the direction and purpose of modern human life! Here’s a fair way to transition forward to where we’re rewarded for cooperating and creating instead of competing and conquering. It's something specific we can demand. If this isnt the best answer, at least we’re thinking about what might be. Are we really just this close to having it work right? Oh yeah, it's a Ski movie! “Occupying Chairlifts” on KZbin!

[@Problembeing]

I'm tired of the Aristotelian world view of this basic 'reductionism' of either/or dialectic. Can we not simply have a bit of individualism within collectivism and vice versa? Or, perhaps try a bit more 'co-operationism'? We'd perhaps advance our civilisation a damn sight quicker if we stopped looking at the ground or at our back, or left/right to cross the mundane road, when we should be looking to the sky for our inspiration. The shades of grey have barely even been looked at.

[@MorphCity]

@annihilationHaven Hi Haven: Please check out Mr. Griffin's Myth & Meaning of Monopoly Capitalism to get the full picture on how monopolies can only exist through government intervention. The only government intervention that should ever be allowed is to PROTECT people's lives, liberty and property. No more and no less! This is the proper role of government. Find out more about the 'proper role of government' at his website Freedom Force International.

[@MorphCity]

@eyeseethroughyou "Sustainable" Development is UN Agenda 21, so it's interesting that you used this word....Also, the population doubling is a LIE (google: 9 billion in 2300). You misunderstood the definition of capitalism which allows ownership of private property and the means of creating wealth in a free market. Monopolies are the problem- not capitalism. Are you aware that communist countries have worse pollution? Check out my website MorphCity for more info about resources. Cassandra

[@johntheadams]

@APB187 Capitalism need not be corrupt to be intolerable by most people. It merely needs to be itself. Down with the profit system. ! Let's see you co-opt that!

[@surrealandre]

I thought Collectivism relates to the behaviour of generally subordinating individual goals to the goals of the in-group that one is part of, or of society. This is Characteristic of eastern societies such as China and my country, India. Whereas Individualism relates to personal liberty in decision making so long as it doesn't come in the way of the liberties of others, characteristic of Western Civilization. Hofstede in the 1950's did some research on this... I think... :P

[@summercures2]

@annihilationHaven: You said "But then what is the ultimate capitalist wet dream if it isn't to monopolize the market and outstrip all competition. It may not happen if there is government intervention, but isn't that also the evil arm that G Edward is against? The point is, the two systems go hand in hand." Haha ..You have come to a rare realization. I too have contemplated this question for quite a while now. You're on the way to figuring out the riddle of "good" versus "evil."

[@aenubis666]

@LandlessPeasantFuck I don't hold deposits, but yes, I've never collected interest on a loan I've made. I've also never loaned money I couldn't afford to lose. The wallstreet casino needs to go too, that goes without saying. Risk is minimized when you don't have non-contributing leeches sucking all the wealth out of the system with their banking ponzi scheme. Before I was paying interest on loans, I could afford to loan money. Not anymore. Interest is what increases risk.

[@annihilationHaven]

I like G Edward, he has brought some interesting concepts to the public's attention, especially the tax exempt foundations, and the role of the fed. He has overlooked a small but very crucial detail. But then what is the ultimate capitalist wet dream if it isn't to monopolize the market and outstrip all competition. It may not happen if there is government intervention, but isn't that also the evil arm that G Edward is against? The point is, the two systems go hand in hand.

[@gbtisdall]

@ersatonoma :If you are going to quote scripture get it right. The text is : For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. If you think it is virtuous to shiver in the dark with no medium of exchange (money) suit yourself. However, your opinion is completely useless in the context of society both today and in generations past. There was many God blessed wealthy people in scripture.

[@chaihigh]

The problem with capitalism is that eventually it will erode into what you call greed capitalism. Because of the never ending perception of higher profits at any cost( through debt service interest, inflation and other factors) their will be a drive for the system to erode to what we have now. Without realizing this will create a replay down the road. I've met and respect Ed Griffin but this represents the old guard thinking- we need to share the worlds resources for all by eliminating money.

[@EternalRecursion]

@Vigilance4Life Individualism is supported within the social covenant, but is not paramount; that would be the union. " ... establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. The USA is about finding the balance between individual agenda and societal needs.

[@EternalRecursion]

@Vigilance4Life "The supreme law of the Constitution is all about individualism." Not even close. 1) The Constitution proper is about the structure of the representative government: "We the People of The United States, in order to create a more perfect Union ..." 2) The Bill of Rights was amended to the Constitution to enumerate and make legally binding the restrictions of government regarding the citizenry.

[@EternalRecursion]

@TheLastAnarchist69 ... thereby transferring the interest dividend to a private investor or an institutional investor. Or, The Fed may decide to permanently retire the bonds, thereby making a permanent transfer to the economy of the capital worth of the bonds. This is the manner in which The Fed tries to manage the balance between the need of the economy to grow, from 50 million people in 1910 to more than 300 million in 2011, and an acceptable rate of the expansion and resulting inflation ...

[@EternalRecursion]

@TheLastAnarchist69 ... upon several occasions in the previous 50 years. The Federal Reserve buys bonds. By law, these bonds are bought from commercial banks. These bonds are capital bearing instruments which are world-around-recognized commitments of purchasing power within the global economy. In other words, The Fed is extending credit to the banks so that the banks can issue and manage the flow of currency. The Fed may decide at any time to sell the bonds to investors ...

[@EternalRecursion]

@TheLastAnarchist69 ... was driving the demand for mortgages and because the investment banks were also acting as commercial banks, they were issuing bad mortgages in order to keep the derivatives growing, and on the insane belief that there was no ceiling on this madness or that such a scheme would inevitably deflate. When the inevitable came, the Federal Treasury was so depleted from 8 years of Republican budget practices, that the economy could not absorb the shock, as it had ...

[@EternalRecursion]

@TheLastAnarchist69 Derivatives were/are investment packages DERIVED from other investment instruments, like mortgages. The derivatives were dividend paying investments, paying dividends from the interest on the mortgage principle. The mortgage itself was maintained as a separate investment, bearing worth, paying a small dividend, growing in value as the market bubble inflated, with hard collateral behind it in a rising market. The problem there, of course, was that the derivatives market ...

[@djkhaless]

To think that the individual and the collective are separate show a naivete of nature it's self. Systems within systems, just like observable fractals, are intrinsically connected, influencing how each functions and manifests itself in that functionality. It's like the whole nature vs. nurture argument, which is completely asinine. We ARE our dna, we ARE products of our environment, both connected, influencing...never separate

[@So1othurn]

Collectivism maintains societal cohesion to prevent it from falling apart, but can cause it to be less diverse and flexible leading it to become stagnant and susceptible to one thing that could lead to its collapse. However, individualism allows for diversity and flexibility that can overcome stagnation and make it less susceptible to one thing that could lead to its collapse, but could cause less cohesion leading to a collapse. It takes a balance of the two.

[@TheLastAnarchist69]

@EternalRecursion I understand your point. There are externalities that must be addressed in a functioning society. But when you say that the investment banks bundled good investments with bad ones-using derivatives-I was under the impression that the reason they were allowed to speculate at all on the market was because they were guaranteed with fiat currency, not "sound money" IE gold. Derivatives, I THOUGHT, were the direct extention of paper money intodigital money, legally backed by the Fed

[@EternalRecursion]

@TheLastAnarchist69 "this video illustrates the problem just fine." Putting everything into the context of either/or does not illustrate the complexities of living in a SOCIETY. By definition, societies have BOTH guarantees of rights and requirements of cooperation. The struggle within the USA goes back to the beginning, when the "Founding Fathers" had to find a compromise between the feudalists and the democratists. Collectivism has become a facile label for anything that limits despotism.

[@EternalRecursion]

@mattchappelart1 "But you have to realize there are many people out there who don't even realize that government is in bed with corporate interests." I'm not sure how to respond to that. Really? You think there are many who don't even realize it? I just assume there are many who don't think about it at all and others who think it's just fine. I also think that there are folks on both sides of the "regulating" struggle, including those who believe there should be none.

[@EternalRecursion]

@TheLastAnarchist69 "the Fed giving trillions to their friends" Although I am under no illusion that the various members of The Fed are a bunch of philanthropists, I do know enough about the workings of the Central Bank system to know that the general purpose of the institution is to provide stability of the currency and the economy. If you want to see the real cause of the current fiscal almost-crisis, you need to look to the politicians, investment banks and investors who removed ...

[@EternalRecursion]

@mattchappelart1 "The answers actually ARE simple." Yes and no. Sure, if everyone operated from a psychology of pure integrity and sophisticated experience, human society would operate far more smoothly, but the reality is we are a neurotic species driven by the forces of adversity (which range from bad breath and toe fungus to plagues, earthquakes and hurricanes), so that our wounded and frightened psyches push us to greed, avarice and criminality. That's why it's all so complex.

[@TheLastAnarchist69]

@eternalrecursion Life is complicated! But this video illustrates the problem just fine. Ive spent a lot of time at the Occupation in Los Angeles, and I can report to you that a great deal of people are ignorant about monopoly capitalism, as well as the Fed giving trillions to their friends. You might be surprised to find out how many people are unaware of these things. And its important to get it right. Youre little rant-as well said as it was-offers even less information than this video. Sorry

[@EternalRecursion]

@jaysonbuckley ... to these arbitrary designations of "Socialist" or "Communist" or "Capitalist" is feeding the enraged for his own purpose of self aggrandizement. It may be convenient to place political ideologies in the construct of simplistic conceptualizations, but it serves no useful purpose. The guy is just pandering to the frustrations and rage of those who want a simple answer to the profoundly interrelated dynamics of living, and finding meaning and purpose in the process.

[@mjultra7345]

@StuTube418 One of the Oil industries favorite tactic is to buy the patent on any newly developed alternative energy vehicle, while preteniding to have interest in mass production. Once the original inventor cashes in, that's when it gets buried or scrapped. the documentary WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR is a great insight into why car companies see alternative energy vehicles as a threat to their forced dependence on crudely powered internal combustion engines.

[@StuTube418]

@LandlessPeasantFuck Excellent comment! Now do some research and see how many times in the past fifty years alternative energies have been successfully demonstrated and not received a dime of Federal monies. The fact is, there have been many alternative energies to fossile fuels. Each and every one, when demonstrated, has been derided by monied interests with lobbiests in the Federal system. The research is burried, and the standing international energy corporations go on going on.

[@djkhaless]

Well said...very smart man. However,To think that the individual and the collective are separate show a naivete of nature it's self. Systems within systems, just like observable fractals, are intrinsically connected, influencing how each functions and manifests itself in that functionality. It's like the whole nature vs. nurture argument, which is completely asinine. We ARE our dna, we ARE products of our environment, both connected, influencing...never separate

[@aenubis666]

@LandlessPeasantFuck Double digit unemployment, growing poverty (world wide), the ability to engineer market crashes from the top, and the only thing standing between the US and runaway hyper inflation is that no one can afford to borrow any of the billions of dollars infused into the system by qe2. Yeah, I'd have to agree with you... if I was a bankster.

[@aenubis666]

@LandlessPeasantFuck That's the sales pitch. It used to be illegal and considered immoral. Called it usury until bankers got control of money. Now money doesn't get issued and circulated without interest appended, insuring defaults and foreclosures, leading to bank ownership of most valued assets. At least under the rule of the IMF anyways.

[@EternalRecursion]

@TheLastAnarchist69 ... $7 trillion from the economy over a period of 6 years, from 2001 to 2007, then used derivatives to bundle investment packages of very high risk mortgages with more stable mortgages and sold the packages, having gotten high risk-reward ratings from companies contracted by the derivatives creators. The Fed had nothing to do with any of those things.

[@surrealandre]

but what this gentleman calls collectivism sounds a bit different from all of that... as if to mean, hedonistic centralisation of resources and control... India does well with a mix of centralisation and decentralisation of power... Well, as he said everyone ascribes a different meaning to words!

[@WonderingAimlessly]

I don't think the founding fathers had in mind a free nation implying that greed was an acceptable means of society. Any intelligent person not choosing to ignore what's happening can see greed is the source. Nice to have things, even nicer to appreciate things.

[@DanH454]

EVERY SINGLE OWS PROTESTOR SHOULD WATCH THIS!! Many of these YOUNG people mean well, but are somewhat confused on these terms. If they watched this... they would holding signs that say: "WE WANT REAL CAPITALISM WITH FREE MARKETS AND TRANSPARENCY!"

[@human7331654]

The only reason the definitions of those two words is currently clear is because they have yet to hit the mainstream and the powerful and influential haven't yet taken the time to spin their meanings.

[@aenubis666]

@LandlessPeasantFuck They don't have to be. I'm not saying I think a gold standard will fix everything. That doesn't make our current system any less broken.

[@anatureperson]

@thekoollemon There is no such thing as legal pillage and plunder, not even if you decide that the government is above the law. That was my point.

[@cbattles]

Great points. One more thing -- the Banksters and the corporates bribing the Congress for favors (to squelch their competition) are the same people.

[@en4cer450]

And yet you will more than likely never hear this man speak on such issues on any of the top tier networks because he speaks the hidden truth.

[@tamarak1000]

I think in capitalism every body should be able to give a proper share of sacrifice: like the crocodile in David rockfeller's shoes for instance.

[@robertbilka1542]

I think that you have described both terms very very accurate and precisely in around 300 characters. Incredible, I salute to you.

[@thecelticgiraffe]

Decent talk but not really totally accurate. Several flaws in his ideas. Though it will take way more than 500 characters to discuss.

[@sh9683]

and collectivism never works, never has never will no matter how good the intentions

[@aenubis666]

@LandlessPeasantFuck Do you even know how our current system creates money?

[@JohnGaltNikolaTesla1]

Its free enterprise vs. capitalism, communism, socialism, fascism, etc.!

[@mrearlygold]

Ron Paul 2012 or more of the same and we can't afford more of the same.

[@yaahme]

Individualism versus collectivism look them up, Griffin is da Man!

[@anatureperson]

How do you plunder people legally? Isn't that an oxymoron?

[@kusari86]

What's the title of the song being played in the beginning?

[@OldSkaterGuy]

He must be a damned good carpenter because he nailed it!

[@Histonia]

That's what I just said though..... in a different way.

[@intlkeyboardsoar]

Great video; hope the OWS crowd watches this material.

[@iannetta11]

If you control something, you own it. BRILLIANT!!!

[@drutter]

AKA "crony capitalism".

[@aenubis666]

@LandlessPeasantFuck Don't they make watches?

[@allboutk]

neat video and good explanation of the terms

[@Kahoki407]

@maidenak I agree. Absolutely brilliant.

[@flynn2008]

Locke vs Hobbes in 21st century.

[@barrywilliamsmb]

Is this Accountant Heaven?

[@westernciviliznation]

My Occupy: USDC & SEC

[@buildinganincome]

The best explanation ever!

[@jaysonbuckley]

Great video and lesson!

[@sh9683]

this guy has brains!

[@linkin622]

Competition is a sin

[@charlycash]

Wow what a lesson!!

[@SailfishSoundSystem]

Amen.

[@Bloodavenger3200]

EXCELLENT!

[@drutter]

Lots of good stuff here, thank you!

[@joaovitorribeiroalves1034]

Perfect!

[@johntheadams]

G. Edward Griffin is living proof that any schmuck can make a video and [post it on KZbin.

[@oucanemailme]

@LandlessPeasantFuck And I posted answer so go read, not enough room here...