The Search for the Best Groovebox Continues…

[@GabeMillerMusic]

For those of you asking about the MC-707, MPC One, etc, you can check out the previous video in this series: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a3-QfJVrodpmfbcsi=EjF7qkxPx4RBO8jz

[@fleximarvellous]

You need to give the Deluge a retrofit treatment, believe me you will love it!

[@d3tuned378]

isnt the deluge NON velocity sensitive in its pads tho?

[@_triff]

Yep, you can't have everything! :( I just got a second hand nanoKEY Studio which is great for pocket (almost) velocity sensitivity and the pads are awesome for mapping to expressive CCs. MPD-219 and a miniLAB 3 on desktop duties.

[@illuminate4]

@@d3tuned378 technically yes. however with the beta firmware (cuz deluge is open source now) theres a mode that displays 8 colored drum pads across the display with 16 velocity settings for each. not a perfect solution but hey the deluge supports velocity you just need a controller. and with how deluge does things theyll probably make a velocity retrofit too lol.

[@UnfinishedIdeas]

Deluge! Yay! Some quick tips that I would give myself if I would start learning the device now: 1) Take some time right at the start of your Deluge journey to just create some kit presets that have the drum sounds you want to use. 2) Consider grabbing some synth presets for Deluge online, the default patches are not that great for how good the device can sound. Boards of Deluge presets are excellent, but perhaps not your style. 3) Mess around with resampling and sample slicing early on. Resampling is THE method for getting the most out of your CPU, layering sounds and baking FX into a sample. It is a core skill if you want to export your tracks. Slicing is just plain fun and can get you some inspiring results. 4) The sidechain parameter is an awesome tool that has many uses. There are some pretty detailed settings you can get into for getting that perfect pumping in your tracks. 5) There are three different Low Pass Filters types that you can specify for everything individually, including the main mix. The drive filter type on the main mix is a good trick for mixing with a bit of saturation. 6) Whenever you're loading or saving a song, synth or kit, remember that you can use the pads as a QWERTY keyboard and quickly type in a name of a preset, song or sample. Just make sure you have the 3.0 overlay or panel, so you know which button is which key.

[@8thmyth]

Don't forget OPEN-SOURCE POWER REIGNS SUPREME

[@SerialExperimentsTim]

The answer, for me, was the Deluge. I really hope you like it as much as I do.

[@boymatmat]

i was about to tag him asking to try out the deluge, hopefully he get's the chance to try it, from what i've heard, it's like a novation circuit but without all the limitations and issues it has

[@Th3rdFloor]

I've been at him on a few occasions in regards to Synthstrom 's Deluge, for some strange reason or 'Bias' (Roland,Akai, Novation, Elektron, Polyend, Dirtywav, Maschine).. he just wont wont touch it!!..,even though he has the unit at hand?,strange don't you think??@@boymatmat

[@_triff]

Ecstatically happy Deluge owner here, wouldn’t dream of using anything else 😊

[@itsahsah]

It’s 100 percent the deluge. Poly Synth engines, fm, wave table, sampler with slicer, drum machine, multi sampler, unlimited audio length looper, midi workstation, unlimited tracks, simple memory card, song mode, built in fx, battery powered, line in etc etc plus so much coming with open source.

[@Swenglish]

I was so deeply disappointed by not being able to use the full 128 pad grid for direct sampling and live triggering in kit mode that I never managed to fall in love with the Deluge. Several times I started building tracks on it and every time I rage quit out of sheer disappointment at not being able to do the most obvious thing it should be capable of. 8 vertical pads, what nonsense is that when there's a huge grid right there just waiting to be implemented? I would instinctively push the "keyboard" button while in kit mode and it would just blink mockingly at me and I'd be like...ok, back on the shelf you go, you boring ass device.

[@paQ75]

At last! You have the Deluge in your hands. There is no rush, at least we know that we will be able to have your opinion about this little gadget, it really is what you were missing.

[@akdm82]

I’d love for you to try out the new Woovebox, Gabe. Looks like a Pocket Operator on steroids that still fits in your pocket. I’m having serious GAS issues with that one.

[@valink13]

THIS^

[@woovebox]

I'd love to send one to Gabe at some stage. Big fan of the channel, and I referenced a number of his videos during the making of the Woovebox (for example his "Dear makers... The Most Important Groovebox Features" video). No pressure on Gabe though - like many of Gabe's videos this one hit home as well. Sometimes you need to take a step back and limit what you're working on, to be able to stay true to your goals, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that!

[@akdm82]

@@woovebox cool! I’ll take one too and review it. 🙄😬😜 I’ve actually been planning on reviewing all of my collection of Synths on my channel one day.

[@RSKT_music]

Really happy to see you finally have yourself a Deluge, but I completely understand the time involved in learning it. I hope you're able to gel with it over time! Shameless self plug - I've got a full video manual on my channel that will help you learn it inside out, but of course I'm not the only one, there's tonnes of great resources out there. Hopefully this proves useful to you. I haven't even tried any of the open source stuff yet, so I kind of feel like I'm in the same boat again 😅

[@GabeMillerMusic]

Great to see you here! Once I dig into the Deluge, I am fully planning to watch through your series. I very briefly started, and right as that happened, I got approved to take the final two tests I need to take for my professional certification, starting the ticking clock on studying. But once that's all out of the way, and I have more time and focus to devote, your series will be my go-to.

[@RSKT_music]

@@GabeMillerMusic congratulations man, that's awesome! Hope you go well with the test :) Let me know if you get any questions about the Deluge when you get up and running! I've been a big fan of your channel for years, so it's an honour to be giving something back in a way :) Cheers

[@sinewaymusic]

Before watching the video, my thought was: "Push 3". After listening through the video, that is still where I think you might want to go next. At least I know I do. It's so funny hearing your reasoning on some of these things, because I recognize and agree with so many of your thoughts. For example, I've literally had the exact same thought about different teams working independently at Akai to put the MPC experience together! 😂However, there is a key part where you and I might have slightly different needs, and that's in the portability department. To me, it's about portability around the house, not the need to put something in a backpack because when I actually do travel for work, I just don't have time to make music because travel typically involves packed work schedules. Also, every time I've prioritized smallness over tactility (MC-101, etc), I've realized just how important the size of an instrument is to me. The M8, as capable as it might be, would never work for me because it doesn't have a single knob! Same with the Polyend Tracker Mini, great on paper, but I wouldn't love jamming with it. There's a minimum size beyond which point it gets fiddly and annoying, which is the last thing I want when trying to unleash my creativity. In my experience, sitting with the MPC Live 2 in my lap, in bed, actually felt great. Sure, it could have been a little lighter, but it was never an inconvenience. That insight opens up new possibilities. To me, grooveboxes are mainly about that creative spark at the initial phase of the process - going from zero to a good song embryo by making music with an instrument-like experience. The rest of it is honestly quicker in the daw. What I always struggle with regardless of groovebox (and I've tried the MC-101, SP-404 mk2, MPC One+Live 2, Syntakt, Digitakt, Digitone) is that waterfall-like transition from in-groovebox to in-daw. I passionately *hate* having to export stems and move on to mixing with printed audio. That's typically when I realize that the sound I chose for that pad doesn't sit well in the mix and has to be redone. This is where the Push 3 comes in. It's standalone and battery-powered, which is super important to me (even though I just move around the house, I do move around!), it's very playable as an instrument with plenty of good knobs and buttons, it has enough tracks to get an idea going, it sounds really good and polished, and it has a quick step sequencer *and* drum pad workflow. On top of that - and this is the key differentiator from eg the Akai products - it means I no longer would have to export any stems because the transition from groovebox to daw is entirely seamless. Once in the daw, all the midi and automation data is still there, completely unchanged. You can even record a live jam (for that mandatory youtube video) and if a sound doesn't end up sitting well in the mix, or you got some knob twist slightly wrong, I can just change it in Live without invalidating the recorded jam. So yeah, I think I'll eventually get a Push 3. Just wish it wasn't so damn expensive, especially with Live 11 Suite. PS. I might disagree with you about one more thing: that the SP-404 mk2 is "objectively good". I think what we can say is that the SP has objectively bad UI. You mentioned that maybe you would feel differently if you tried it again - I assume you most surely wouldn't. I've given it enough tries to know that I don't like that workflow, and given your very similar proclivity towards polished sound and a fast workflow, I'm pretty sure you will never like it either. My SP is going up on sale shortly to save up for the Push 3. Not sure I could ever sell the Syntakt though, I love it too much. But maybe, just maybe if I sample enough drum sounds into the Push, I might end up not needing it anymore. We'll see. Anyway, thanks for the video, it seems we're possibly groovebox soulmates. 🙈😅

[@remyvegamedia]

I've been seeing your comments on various videos and we had a discussion about the SP404 a while back on our differing perspectives on it. I have gone back and forth on some aspects of the SP404MK2 and sort of came to the conclusion that I don't really see it as being useful for making fully developed songs. I also hate taking things from hardware to DAW haha. And I love arranging and developing ideas in Ableton. My disdain for DAWs was rooted in my incompatibility with Logic Pro. It led me to thinking "standalone" was the answer. The marketing got me. Turns out I don't like the MPC environment and even though I love what I can sound design on the SP, it just doesn't offer what I need to take those ideas into full arrangements. So after having disagreed with you, I actually agree with a lot of your critiques of the SP at this point haha. I also agree the MPC is just much more capable, but I truly don't like its entire layout and UI. To me the Push 3 looks like the best available hardware for "standalone" production at this time. I think the Push 3 covers the aspects that are even viable in a standalone situation while being compatible with an actual DAW by default.

[@sinewaymusic]

@@remyvegamedia Exactly this! I remember your name but not the specifics of our discussion. But yes, the SP as a groovebox is a sad thing - as a sampler it's great, but I'm here to make music, not just sample. On its own, it's not great. And the MPC is way better, the workflow isn't as fun as it could be. But as a standalone groovebox, it's head and shoulders above the SP in my opinion. Where any of these devices fall short is in the inevitable export to the DAW, and the Push 3 solves all that by making the export (print to audio) unnecessary. After writing my long comment above, I spent 45 minutes watching a tutorial on how to make a song from start to finish on the Push 2 and I'm even more convinced now about the capabilities and the workflow. I definitely think the Push 3 is in my future and it may well be the one groovebox to rule them all for me.

[@remyvegamedia]

@@sinewaymusic Yeah, as much as I don't mesh with the process of MPC, I won't deny anymore that it offers much more for full scale production than the SP. I still consider getting a used Live 2 to try again, but I honestly feel like the Akai/Air plugins are not top quality (mostly the piano/rhodes, which are my main instruments) and I don't sample besides one shots for drums, so that's an important aspect for me personally. And I 100% agree about the export aspect of all hardware production units! I've spent a lot of time using my Push 2 90 degrees away from my screen, emulating the "standalone" experience and I've found that the things that aren't available directly on the Push are things I just leave for later and I end up blazing through to the next part of the idea I'm developing. Push 3 has some features that I'd love to have that add to that process. Also, the basic Ableton Piano and Rhodes are, in my opinion, much more useable. Also, I can always finish that by using my Korg Nautilus sounds in the studio for the final version, which is another case for the Push 3 integration haha.

[@sinewaymusic]

@@remyvegamedia The thing about the MPC is that it taught me to use samples beyond just the one shot drums. Particularly, I thought it was very useful in creating background textures and those small ear candy things that could help to make a track more interesting. What made it useful is that you could immediately bake that into a song idea, as opposed to on the SP where I feel like I'm doing those textures in isolation to the real song idea that lives somewhere else. But it's probably somewhere there in between the effects and the live use of the knobs that the happy accidents of the SP might happen. It's just not for me. Regarding the MPC, what I found lackluster was the effects, particularly the Air Reverb. So yeah, the export to the daw was inevitable and ultimately that made me stop using the MPC. The Push 3 is currently the holy grail and I'm looking forward to trying it out sometime relatively soon! Just hoping they'll work out some of the early QC issues and maybe offer a bundle discount since I'll need the Suite license too. 🙈😭

[@remyvegamedia]

@@sinewaymusic Man you're speaking my language here and it's refreshing haha.

[@akdm82]

I LOVE IT! For me, the portable “one machine” that I can carry anywhere is still my Roland MC-101 too! If I need a little more and can carry a little more, then that is the VerseLab-MV1. Sometimes both. Admittedly, I don’t do sampling much. I’m more into the synth engine. Usually I carry the MC-101 and a small MIDI keyboard. For recording, I carry the BOSS Micro BR 80. I will also sometimes carry my Volca Keys and all 4 of the Roland Aira compact series (S-1, T-8, J-6, and E-4) my Korg NTS-1 and the MC-101 since they all fit in my huge laptop bag. That way I can have one bag to carry but have a lot of options to keep me entertained. 😂

[@alecsbuga]

Just ordered my third Deluge. I wanted to buy it when the OLED came out, but Teenage announced the OP1F. So I got the Field. But now I'm ready for it, especially with the Open Source Community Firmware which has most of the stuff I asked for as feature req. I've been through almost exact journey as you, but there's no perfect Groovebox. The M8 is my preferred one so far, but I miss finger drumming and Live Playing. Logic Pro on iPad is also awesome!

[@Geekraver]

I’m a bit surprised you didn’t give the MV-1 more of a chance. Add a portable battery and you can get 12 hours on it, and it’s easier to arrange full songs than the MC-101.

[@johnsaunders6510]

I have the mighty MC707. Due in part to one of your reviews. It's awesome.

[@ChildOfSaturnMusic]

If you haven't yet, I'd be curious to see how well you'd take to Bitwig. I also saw a video recently by Baphometrix where he demonstrates how well the Maschine 3 works with it.

[@Bezz_Jeens]

It’s so wild, you’re 100% the best groovebox synthtuber, your specific interest in them means that you’re evaluating them for what people actually buy them for, which is standalone or mostly standalone playing and composing. However, our tastes are the complete opposite. I don’t like synth wave or monstercat-core bass music at all, I loved the Tracker and SP404mk2 (especially the SP404mk2), and didn’t jive with the m8 or circuit tracks. But you’re so good at reviewing and so thorough, I watch every one of your videos straight through. That’s the mark of a good gear KZbinr, I think.

[@GabeMillerMusic]

Thanks so much!

[@minimal3734]

The 1010music Blackbox is also something to consider. For years it's the center piece of my creative process with daily changing other gear around it. It's very portable, can sequence external stuff, has a ableton like clip based workflow, samples in mono, stereo and multisamples. It plays samples as tempo synced loops, as polyphonic instruments, as granular material, as sliced fragments. It's got a song mode, I could go on for some time...

[@nsiivola]

Do you have a suggestion of videos to watch to get into the Blackbox workflows? I got one but almost immediately felt like it wasn't for me and am considering selling. Every other sequencing-captable device I have I've immediately made some (bad) tracks with, but with the Blackbox... zero.

[@minimal3734]

@@nsiivolaI can't recommend vids but I can explain what I do. Usually I take the BB and connect one piece of other gear and some pedals. Then I collect loop material of various kinds and lengths using record to play mode. I often switch gear during the process and collect more loops and samples. When I've got enough raw material I start working out sequences to trigger clips, melodic lines and percussion. Finally I use song mode to assemble the clips and sequences created in the previous step into an arrangement. That's the overall process. But for the moment I'm often fine with just creating some loops. When I then revisit the project later I'm often astounded by the material that I find and do not remember how I created it. Usually it inspires a direction to build upon it and continue the process. I avoid using a computer at all costs and this works for me.

[@nsiivola]

@@minimal3734 very interesting, thank you!

[@steveedwards4495]

Hobbyist? 😂😂😂

[@dave3987]

Yamaha Tenori-on is a grid type sequencer came out in 2007 Yamaha was ahead of its time I think Akai force and Deluge copied the idea.

[@asaelcalderon3435]

I use the Maschine Mk3 in ableton!!! I only use it for live sets, you can set an ableton channel to the machine software and make some really interesting things!! But there is still the same problem you say: to produce you need yo export the maschine stems to work in your favourite DAW

[@hobonickel840]

I kind of wish I would have bought two separate devices even after getting a great deal on the Akai Force and I would have been better off getting two separately functioning devices focused on doing a couple things great. I'm still learning so I'll know the Force's ins and outs before I starting swapping out gear. Goes to show you you never can do enough research on gear, but knowing exactly what you want to do before hand helps greatly as I don't see me using some of the Force features that drive it's cost and it's been a head scratcher. Maybe one I've developed more of a work flow I'll know better what devices I'm looking for. My initial idea was to be liberated from the Internet while having a main central unit as the heart of the rig for everything else... thanks for sharing your thoughts on all this stuff. Your angles make researching much easier

[@SOVLTRON]

Great take on the force. I personally use the force daily and its my daily driver. it really gets the job done. minus portability its really a phenomenon of a machine.

[@th-wf3sz]

Force does it all!

[@glamball]

Thanks for the video! Hesitated for about a year, but now waiting for my Polyend Play to arrive. Had Maschine mk2, Electribe sampler 2 and MPC1000 in the past, but this one looks so promising for glitch-hop and maybe breakcore at some point.

[@nataneskaton]

The Dirtywave M8 sounds fricking amazing to my ears. This is the sound I'm looking for. It's a shame why the MPC One doesn't have sounds like this, or similar to this on their synth plugins. If it did, I wouldn't even focus on getting anything else in the future, but the synth sounds are just not there. I don't know if you've ever heard of the Roland JD-Xi, but that is the best and most fun little workstation that I have ever owned and used. I absolutely love it, but it has it's limitations, which makes it even better. I really like the Maschine MK3, but I just don't like using a DAW to make music, but I'm really starting to think about incorporating a DAW into my productions. It's time. If the Maschine Plus wasn't so much, that might be the one that I would go for right now, because it sounds the best to my ears. I just wish the MPC's had better synth plugins. It's the one thing they are missing the most is great quality sounds, especially orchestral stuff. That Dirtywave M8 sounds phenomenal though. I'll have to look into that thing...

[@paulatreides0777]

The M8 is amazing you can also sample any length some of mine are 8 minutes long.

[@Maochan81]

I went through most of the boxes in the video. Currently sitting on my desk is the Deluge and MC-707. And i'm leaning towards the 707. I like the Deluge sequencer, the size, internal battery, quick workflow. BUT i like to play the 707's pads and it's possibilities. Especially the synth engine and real sounding instrument sounds makes me enjoy the 707 more.

[@RodVonLongrod]

I bought the 707 mainly for the drums as a potential replacement of my TR-8S, but I do enjoy the bonus synth sounds. The 707 is a nice piece of gear.

[@Jason75913]

​@@RodVonLongrod wat The TR8S isn't a total upgrade over the 707 for drums?

[@RodVonLongrod]

@@Jason75913 The TR-8S is a better drum machine IMHO. I like the included sounds more than the sounds in the 707. The TR-8S is more versatile for drums. It's possible to play synth sounds on it but that's not its forte. Once you learn how to program both it's really easy to create a beat on either one.

[@Jason75913]

@@RodVonLongrod 707's strength is definitely synth, it is awesome, also as a looper or FX processor for other hardware, but the drums aren't as good or versatile as my FA-06, and loading my own drum samples into the 707 kills my samples' punch, which has annoyed me tremendously. But my new Polyend Tracker doesn't give me problems with samples at all. But you saying that you bought an MC-707 for drums struck me as bizarre. I'm pretty sure you would regret replacing a TR8S with a 707.

[@RodVonLongrod]

@@Jason75913 Well, I was still new to the whole groovebox thing at the time. I don't have a synth background and am not very familiar with a lot of the music of the various styles the 707 could make. I had no idea really if the 707 could replace the TR-8S. I thought I would be able to do it all with the 707 and I could sell the TR-8S. I really liked the look of the 707. Keeping both worked out pretty well though.

[@xn-triq7607]

How dare you 😂! The Polyend Tracker is probably the best standalone groovebox along side the MPC and the Force. I honestly think that the AK Force & Poly Tracker are the most underappreciated devices on the market.

[@dothe303dance]

I doubt you will ever find the best groovebox 😂

[@edgi55]

I do use Machine as a plugin within Ableton and it makes my workflow way easier. No issues at all apart from Machine's transport controls won't work while running Machine as a plugin within Ableton

[@GerenM63]

You gotta do you, man. I see a lot of people get into the KZbin game and then get frustrated because they're not doing what they love -- making music -- because they're trying to feed the algorhithm. And I've seen that kill the joy for them and they drop out of music altogether. Try to not be that guy. Try to hold onto the joy!

[@rudster2396]

I actually got both novation circuits tracks and rhythm and they are just so much fun. Are they professional enough? Maybe not. But they are just so quick to dial and to interact with. I'll get a push 3 eventually i think.

[@akdm82]

If I was designing the perfect groove box/ portable synth for me, it would be a combo of the ones I mentioned earlier sort of. I’d really like a Roland VerseLab or boutique sized Fantom-0 that still has the full Fantom-0 engine. It could use pads like from the MV-1 but have a nice color touch screen like the Fantom 0 but smaller and maybe use an iPhone or iPad link through USB for more control like they do now with ZenBeats. I’d even settle for less polyphony than the Fantom-0 like 128 would be fine. If I was looking for something really small, I’d like them to redesign the MC-101 to have all the same features, plus more but change the following: make it the size of the Aira Compacts like the S-1, so basically just thinner and add built-in lithium batteries and a USB-C interface. Add a stereo line-in for sampling and 1 XLR mic input and make that an extra track for 5 total. Then give it the vocal capabilities of the MV1. A better, larger, higher resolution OLED screen and velocity sensitive keys would round it out and make it the best truly portable groovebox ever in my opinion. Of it could use a phone as a screen too that would rock and maybe it wouldn’t need a bigger screen. Maybe.

[@mattruss99]

just discovered your channel last week and my circuit tracks is arriving later today lol, really enjoy your content and perspective/advice!!

[@DmitryPuffin]

After years of playing DAWless live sets, I think I will get back to Ableton/Laptop+Controllers/Novation Circuit combo. My last upgrade was introducing Akai Force in my setup. It helped me reduce total size of my setup and I can travel by plane with it, but in reality it doesn't really fit my needs, as warping sounds like crap, thus I can't do tempo changes without workarounds. Another issue with Force is that preparing 1h-2h long live set might take a lot of time, even if you prepare project in Ableton, then import it to Force. Making changes in the live set also is quite tedious process, it just doesn't click with me. The good thing is - with Akai Force I found a way how to use clip-based workflow and combine it with my occasional jamming during live sets. Now I can replace Force with Ableton and I am good to go :) Push 3 Standalone costs 2000 euros, so this is around the same price as Macbook, which can do a lot more than just launching clips. I see plenty of people are using Macs on stage, and it seems like its quite reliable. Now I just need to collect enough money to buy a mac :D

[@DanielIvan707]

Maschine Mikro and Live is great together. Use it as a plug in for drums/synth sounds and also as a controller for Live. Very flexible powerful workflow.

[@krazywabbit]

Once again, a cat who is wise beyond his years. Solid advice dispensed. It's never about the gear. Stay safe and do you!

[@BIG1TOWER]

The mc 101 is perfect for on the go and powerful to. I probably would like the force as a desktop setup.

[@thethrillofnoskill4521]

The quest that never ends haha 😅 Really been enjoying the journey

[@rainermichaelcom]

Maybe a total different direction - but how about an iPad with Korg Gadget (for the engines) and additional controller like the nanoKontrol or nanoKeys? I've been following you for a while and was on the search for a dawless hardware groovebox thing. I ended up with the maschine+ which i recently sold because it did not work for me. I had pretty much the same "whishes" you mentioned in your vid: portability (making music on vacation or in bed), getting rid of a full laptop or the feeling of sitting in front of a computer. Tactile options - in my case optional with the nano-Series. Good sound quality, working with samples, etc.... The ipad does all that for me. There is a load of additional synth apps to experiment with when you are looking for a different sound. etc...

[@Heathcliff_hensel]

The problem with groove boxes is that almost all have a poor song mode. That is why I like using Logic on my laptop now.

[@nicolassullivan7746]

Your thoughts have always been insightful enjoyed your content for years now haha. Id like to see you do videos on using boxes together. Like what's are so groove boxes that work well together ? I've enjoyed pairing my digitakt with my 404mk2 lots of fun

[@GabeMillerMusic]

I've had a great time pairing the Circuit Tracks and MC-101.

[@GeorgeHzMusic]

I consider my iPad running Logic Pro the absolute best groove box ever

[@alexwestconsulting]

I'm holding off starting the month trial so I can time the end of it with Black Friday (hoping for discounted year sub).

[@aoterou]

If you pair logic on the ipad with the Elektron boxes it’s the perfect workflow, they work so well together with just one cable, as if Elektron was owned by Apple

[@alexwestconsulting]

@@aoterou you mean I can use overbridge with logic on ipad?

[@danrodriguez8355]

Hey Gabe, great video. Have you tried Woovebox?

[@Alckemy]

Have an iPhone/iPad? DRambo with koala sampler is super versatile and convenient as you can sample from the device itself

[@jimmywheelo]

The best groovebox is Ableton

[@smooth7689]

In time, the MC101 will be seen as a classic. The perfect sofa sketch pad for DAW development. It’s just the UI. I find it really clunky.

[@justjoeblow420]

I personally have slowly settled on a MC-707 and a TR8S which is such a recent acquisition this was my first night jamming with it and I need to get the cables I need to use it with my MC-707. I wish I was joking but I got offered a TR8S in mint barely used condition for 500$ and I couldn't pass it up with the introduction of the CR78 ABM stuff to it pushed it fully over the edge for me personally. Thankfully both where bought used so I'm only out about 1100$ which for as much power as the set up is all ready bringing to me I'm not seeing any new addition to my hardware stable for a while.

[@Jocepos]

I use Maschine MK3 and the Maschine JAM in Ableton with Clyphx and use the DAW to automate tempo changes. It integrates well and it is fast to switch between instances and also controlling Ableton's transport and mixer.

[@John-mf1sz]

MPC One is really the end all for me. I do love my SP-303 and my Digitakt as well though.

[@TheLordcasio]

I have a lot of the same boxes. When it comes to trying to get your head around the Deluge, I can not recommend the tutorial series by RSKT enough. It’s really amazing. I chatted with him and I think he creates educational videos for a living (my memory ain’t the best). Watch his videos with the Deluge in front of you, and try to follow him, step-by-step, pausing the vids to explore. My Deluge was fairly neglected before I did his coarse. 2 cents deposited.

[@atalhlla]

As someone on the very, very casual side of things, the Dirtywave M8 has been a godsend. The minimal controls and nearly pocketable size make it perfect for me, and the tracker workflow just works for me. As you noted, the inclusion of built-in synths on top of its sample playback is just absolutely wonderful. I don’t have enough time to learn too many different pieces of gear, so having something so portable and “powerful enough” has just been wonderful. Trash80 is just amazing, and his M8 is amazing.

[@tablaninja]

Absolutely!! M8 is hands down my go-to! LOVE it and the community around it.

[@RaverOperatorGeeza]

Out of everything I own, my M8 Tracker is my fave too. Hang really used a tracker outside of LSDJ briefly, but quite like the workflow now. I love how simple it if to apply effects compared to my MPC One for example.

[@SvenFx-22]

I know your weren’t thrilled with the Verselab but I bought it after my 101 and find it’s really an amazing box that although quirky, once learned can easily make complete tracks. I use it more than I thought I would. I use my force more and my mpc a lot. It seems I have most of the same boxes as you. But I wanted to mention that imo the verselab definitely is worth a mention

[@AmateurGameReview]

Clicked because Im a complete beginner looking for a device. Subscribed because of the insanely good sounding voice over sound..... Also great presentation in general

[@VacancyOfDisco]

MC 707 is almost perfect for me. I wish it was more robust in it's build... steel chassis and sturdier knobs and faders, overall larger internal RAM, and some refinement to solve parameters controls... Like dialing in EQ settings!

[@user82938]

Akai Force is my favorite all-in-one device I have ever owned (buying gear since 1995). Yeah, it has lots of jank, and annoying aspects to its workflow, but it allows me to sit down with just one piece of gear and make full tracks that sound how I want them to sound.

[@ToyKeeper]

Same. After searching for decades, I finally found the device I wanted all along, and it's a Force. Would be cool if it was smaller though, with an angled screen and ideally a 2-octave mini keybed at the bottom.

[@user82938]

@@ToyKeeper Yes, I would love an angled screen. And they really need to allow other time signatures!

[@th-wf3sz]

The FORCE hands down washes everything on this list in my humble opinion. Ableton workflow, MPC OS/Power, with futuristic possibilities... I still can't believe it's as slept on as it is.

[@ToyKeeper]

@@user82938Yeah, tempo automation and custom time signatures would be really nice. And the quick sample-to-pad feature from MPC. Even without those though, I agree with @th-wf3sz that it's underrated and "washes" everything else.

[@brianwilliams4686]

I've owned the Deluge (non-retrofitted), the MC-707, MC-101, MPC One, M8, and right now I own (as of three weeks ago) the Akai Force... I miss all of the above (except the MPC One) but I love the Force and it gave me the MPC experience I wanted but just fell short of with the MPC one.

[@kogz]

So far I use Korg Electribe 2 Sampler, it's good but these are things I don't like about it: 1. trigger pads are stiff, hard, sometimes not recognising a touch. I have also Novation Launchkey where pads are soft and sensitive - it's awesome; 2. loading samples shuffling SD card back and forth can be painful; 3. clunky setting menu. I am also thinking about an ipad with Drambo, but I really like controllers with physical knobs and pads. I know I can connect it to ipad, but I'd like to stay with simple all-in-one solution. Can you suggest anything?

[@careycummings9999]

Its been awesome watching your musical journey, and your Circuit demo's and tutorials I still reference to this day. I think as people evolve their needs change and I'm sure yours has as well. As long as music is an escape and not a chore, you will find your perfect flow and maybe the perfect device.

[@all.day.day-dreamer]

I own every single groove box on the market, so do many other people. Do you know what I've discovered? For me and I suspect many others as well is that if you can pick something up, have fun, ease of use, portability, cost, etc .... that it has given me the most joy. Right now, I am absolutely loving my EP133 KO 2 and Roland Aira S-1. I have thousands and thousands of dollars in gear, I can afford it but, it's still a lightly bitter feeling in many ways. You absolutely do not need to spend a lot of money, that I know for a fact.

[@CrescentRollCarl]

I've been on the groovebox hunt since high school with the mc303. Its been a long road. I've never actually found one which I want to produce entire tracks on though. I currently use the M8 in a hybrid workflow with my DAW. I think its easily the best device for the money on the market and sounds unbelievable. Its really an amazing achievement for a single developer.

[@traderjoes7976]

I watched a red means recording video on the m8 and the sound alone was enough to sell me

[@johnrichardson3297]

Perkons + Polyend Tracker(+DSI Tempest) + Wavestate(/Opsix/Syntrx/2600/Malevolent/Grandmother/e7/Udo Super 6/Motor Synth/Semi-Modular/Ob-6)….

[@ThatBonsaipanda]

If only Yamaha would make a modern version of their QY series that had VA, FM and the classic sequencer functionalities and would be compact and portable, that would be a killer. Main issue I have with the Force and the new Push standalone is the price - the device needs to be REALLY fun to use and be somewhat groundbreaking in it's workflow, otherwise the laptop still wins. The most fun I've had in recent weeks is the Octatrack, combined with other gear, like the MPC Live/Blofeld/MC-707. There's something really weird in it's workflow that keeps drawing me in, even though most folks have serious PTSD from using it. \o/

[@slikdarelic]

The best groovebox would be an updated Yamaha RS7000.. unfortunately Yamaha seems to have no interest in makin a sequel as its too busy makin more Montage keyboards and finger drum machines.. 🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿

[@DangerAmbrose]

It's the MPC One.

[@Jesoteric]

Not a groovebox it’s a full on workstation

[@NetvoTV]

How about TE's new KO II? I'm new to music making but I not sure where to start, there are so many type of device, tracker, sampler, comproser, sequencer and so on, I think M8 Tracker is good for me to start and bring anywhere but then I see people don't do all in just one device but connect a few, one say he will connect this to the M8 but why, how about those MIDI keyboard like the OP-1 Field and OP-Z, I love these design as well but not sure where to start, I want to make futuristic modern music, soundtrack from something like Tenet, Tron and Blade Runner plus game like Wipeout flying car games and also want to make game element effects, is there benefit to get any of these and not just use Garageband and Logic Pro with their virtual synthesizer and library of sounds already recorded over the internet?

[@hopeful8053]

I still have my novation circuit. I love the fact it has a built in SPEAKER so its super portable also not very heavy.

[@djsoo]

still on my mpc live 2 and barely touch ableton. I haven't experienced too many issues with it, but i tend to use it more as a hardware synth sequencer than an entirely in-the-box groove box.

[@billybartcody3591]

Deluge is the holy grail. I want one very badly. Right now using the Maschine Mk3 with hardware synths and FX, but want to build tracks solely in hardware eventually. Many in the know have told me that Deluge is the shit. And Syntakt looks like something I'd have years of fun with, I love the sound and the hardware looks very satisfying to fiddle with. A Roland 101 / 707 would also be nice, but the lack of sample memory onboard gives me pause (that and the headache-inducing Aira green).

[@rodolphep0nthus555]

Yamaha RS7000. The most powerful Groovebox ever made. Awesome front panel with hands on remix chopping midi sequencer capabilities, and flexible engine. Yamaha what are you waiting for launching a MK2 with updated sampler, the Reface series engines (CS/DX...). Why not an analog monosynth engine Would crush to bits all today's lame groovebox market 🤯💪 Would

[@jmichell1880]

Have you seen the Woovebox? It's smaller than a pocket operator, has 16 buttons and 1 clickable knob, but it's feature list is insane. 16 tracks/channels, each of which can be exported seprately as .wav stems, midi out on all channels independently, both sampling and internal oscillators, polyrhythmic sequencing with each track set to different lengths, oscillators capable of fm, multiple lfos, interesting onboard fx, probability and a huge list of conditional triggers, an internal battery, with 10 hour capacity when not using bluetooth, scale quantization for notes and chord following for other tracks in-scale, 2 polyphonic tracks, sample slicing, per note param locks. That's just scratching the surface. about $250 to order. For a project essentially made by 1 guy, it makes you wonder why the feature sets of established companies' grooveboxes are often so paltry.

[@EverettVinzant]

Something to consider. If you were to take a Digitakt, make it smaller, battery powered, and use velocity sensitive pads… You’d have a LoFi-12 XT.

[@Eigenstates.]

You, Ziv and Jeremy from Red Means are my internet music happy place. You do whatever the hell you want. Presonally, I'm along for the ride. Devices are neat and all but it's your insight is why I am subbed and continue to watch. I think I'd be most interested in your Push 3 review due to the MSE. It seems fully capable of riding the line between synth engine and sample based.

[@1980VINZ]

If only YAMAHA could do a new RM1X, with both analog and digital sound engines… You know what, my deeply hope is somewhere else… BEHRINGER. It will take time, but I bet one day they will make the perfect groovebox. Simply because we’re all waiting for that and Behringer is listening. Their knowledge and expertise are rocketing with years, with all types of machines, especially the VERY BEST ones, it can make at the end the best groovebox ever.

[@Th3rdFloor]

MMMmm, 'Searching for the best Groovebox' you say??..and yet you are leaving out one of the top contenders! 'Synthstrom's Deluge',,,oh dear!!🤔

[@vegaf2011]

Which groove box has standalone features, Bluetooth, or usb connection all at the same time also rechargeable ????

[@supamarx5782]

Gabe is the God of groove boxes! I have been in a similar journey without the budget, freebees, or talent but Model Cycles and Circuit Tracks are a great fun learning experience leading up to my choice which would be the Digitone.

[@CatenationIndustrial]

Thank you, dear Gabe for the insightful overview. Some ‚entries‘ I‘d like to try one day, like the M8. You know it, the Syntakt is my favourite because of all the reasons you mentioned (I don‘t need polyphony ;) ). I aleady played complete live sets just with the Syntakt ^_^

[@arcadeuk]

As someone who has followed a similar journey to yourself. What I really wanted was a Circuit 2.0, as I always found the Circuit to have one of the fastest workflows for actually starting up and getting something done. I was incredibly disappointed when the Circuit Tracks turned out to be a Circuit 1.1 and not something that added any meaningful extra features (it really needed at least 2 more synth engine slots, and meaningfully longer samples not just 2 midi tracks) The Akai Force is the closest I have found to a "Circuit 2" so far, though you obviously lose a lot of the speed and simplicity of the Circuit, but gain huge numbers of extra tracks, effects, samples etc

[@6mmtactics385]

Nothing from Sonicware?!?!? I have the Lofi 12 and the SmplTrek and they both seem to do what your talking about….. HA you just mentioned them as i was typing LOL.

[@DylanRotich]

Maschine MK3 seems overpriced considering you still need a laptop. Would the Akai MPC Studio Mk2 be a better alternative? I own one and to my knowledge it has most of the features of the MPC One/Live plus it's very thin and light. Now that I think about it, it doesn't have the inputs and outputs you might want in a standalone (obviously it's just a controller)

[@twdough]

If you're not giving adequate time learning a device this search of yours is pointless. The tips and tricks you pick up change up immensely from month 1 to year 1. Personally Maschine+ linked to sp404mk2 linked to my DAW is my favorite set up now.

[@RodVonLongrod]

Being a guitarist first-and-always drums have always been my Achilles heel. I bought a Roland TR-8S and learned how to use it. Later I bought a Maschine MK3, and then I just had to buy a Roland MC-707, with the intention of selling the TR-8S if the drums were better and easier to use on the 707. I ended up keeping the TR-8S as it's an awesome drum machine. I still have the MK3 and the 707. It's the best of both worlds really. The MK3 has a "software" sound and the 707 has an analog sound if that makes any sense. I don't want to sell either one as I like the workflow of both. But if you're narrowing your search and it comes down to a choice between the two of these just flip a coin.

[@francescodamico7903]

I came from an old qy700 yamaha. You weren't born at that time, i think :-) Now, after viewing many of yours and other videos i purchased an Akai Force. I don't need it to be portable in a bag pack so i'm glad to hear you say "it has it all". Now the question. I have a basic version. No plugins. Wich ones would you consider as "necessary"? Wich plugins make the force a different and better machine ? Just name two or three. I can't afford to buy them all.

[@MatsueMusic]

The Deluge was my answer: Went from MPC One (Returned) -> Roland 707 (returned) -> Deluge. Never looked back, same reasons, same purpose, it does have the Electron, my-way or the high-way stuff, but once you learn it.

[@jetset808]

solton programmer 24.. from the 80s and it's all analog except the drum machine is eprom and it sounds like the cross between a linn drum and DMX

[@tinykarpo80s]

for soviet post punk like the style of molchat doma ploho or buerak what should i buy to make that kind of music?

[@Geekraver]

Now you're going to have to do part 4 with the Polyend Play+ and the Yamaha Seqtrak. Plus if you're returning to the laptop, maybe the Push 3 standalone needs a shot. And you still have to announce that the new winner is the Delly, especially with the new community firmware.

[@aoterou]

I am surprised by the lack of Elektron fanboys in the comments, I consider my self one by the way, I currently own all the devices featured in this video except the force (although I had the mpc live 2) and the Maschine, and I absolutely love them all, but the Digitakt (and even the Digitone not mentioned in the video) are on a league of their own imho, one reason we all abandon DAWs is the tactile aspect, and no other brand feels so good as the Elektron boxes, also the workflow, sound design, integration with DAWs and if that wasn’t enough, they work seamlessly with logic on the iPad, for me, that is the perfect DAWless route, no stem exports required just composing, jamming, recording…

[@presc13nt]

So let me get this straight ... He's looking for the best goroovebox. He had the time and energy to try all those machines listed / shown in the video ... but he hasn't had the time or energy to try the Deluge which has already been in his possession for a loooong time ? I dont quite understand this. Also, the Deluge imo, is THE best of the bunch. This dude is confusing.

[@alex-r-t]

While not quite out of the "Alpha" stage yet, I'd love to see what you think of the Community open-source firmware for the Deluge as well. If you have any coding experience (or just a willingness to test and provide feedback) you're more than welcome to join the effort 😉

[@MrDsilvia]

Have you tried the Soniware Smpltrek?? That's my portable.

[@Melodic623]

i guess you're just making a video for the heck of it. but you already know which box is the best. AKAI. also can you elaborate on the "jank" aspect you were referring to

[@712Jefferson]

Enjoyable video, Gabe. You're doing yourself a disservice though of coming this far with all of these devices and not trying out the Push 3. Ticks all of your boxes perfectly (sans size).

[@jupitor919]

What about eurorack? Wasn’t it supposed to be the build the groove machine of your dreams destination?:-0

[@mklschwrtz2]

We need another video if you can get your hands on the new stuff like Polyend Play Plus, Yamaha Seqtrack, etc!

[@iamkeebz]

I was on the same thought with the sp-404 mkii… I walked away from it for a couple months, then recently I went into a deep dive with the 404 and have been completely smitten by it. It’s just a totally different approach to the Groovebox concept. I’ll second the MC-101 (dollar for dollar it’s the best thing on the market) I sold mine for an MC-707 upgrade because I liked it so much, but that totally loses the portability factor which admittedly I should have thought through a little more. Great video.

[@mikamulperi]

Been using MC-101 couple of days now and I love it already ❤

[@Jason75913]

You've got all the cool gear already, now more grooves and tracks, please; you rock, man. If you get into Push3/Ableton, that's clearly not groovebox land anymore, but whatever you want, man.

[@gunark]

Between Drambo and Logic for iPad, and a ton of insanely good plugins (Zeeon and Model 15 are two of the best synths anywhere), an iPad Pro is really hard to beat. It’s the midway between the box and the laptop.

[@motherbrain2000]

A small windows laptop that flips around into touchscreen tablet mode with ableton and a tiny 8 knob endless-encoder controller and some (perhaps involved) template prep (with, perhaps, some M4L devices) is where I’ve landed. Even without an audio interface I quickly make 8 bar loops worthy of a stab at full production and- look at that: I’m already in ableton.

[@motherbrain2000]

Setting this up took a month- so…there’s some downsides.

[@chrisb3389]

I always appreciate your videos. I love how you breakdown pros and cons based on workflow. Do whatever inspires you. While I enjoy the gear videos, I also like your creative song building stuff too. Anything I can learn from another person's production decisions is great. As for where I have landed, my main 2 devices are the MC707 and the 1010music Blackbox. I've recently decided to commit to learning better the 707 workflow and it is paying off. I finally learned how to marry the 2 devices to let the Blackbox handle all my guitar or vocal sampling and leave the 707 for the amazing tones it is good at. Being able to take sound pack tones on the go with my iPad and Zenbeats is nice (though they should fully integrate with the 101/707). All that being said, as much as I like dabbling on good iPad apps and synths, a part of me really craves an MC101. The thought of leaving the 707 as my brain/hub on my desk and carrying around the 101 as a portable version seems killer. I do have a rip cord and battery for the 707, so I can take it to the park, but it feels nowhere as portable as the 101 would. Keep up the good work at whatever pace you deem good!

[@mooted5513]

An instrument into loopy pro into an octatrack. Improv into loopy. Mash it up into OT

[@sichtbeton]

Deluge with retrofit and the new Open Source firmware.

[@roncordell]

Really appreciate you taking the time to lay out your thoughts and considerations about these devices. You communicate clearly and it's a pleasure to listen to your line of thinking and analysis. As for the gear - as you can see from the comments folks have their favorites and can't resist declaring "The One" :) It's all about having fun in my book and learning how to be creative after decades of merely being an "engineer" ;)

[@GabeMillerMusic]

As much as I love my line of work, and think it does involve a lot of creative problem solving, I gotta keep the music side of my brain happy.