Game Theory: The Curse is a LIE! (Edith Finch)

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I've been asked to talk about What Remains of Edith Finch for years... and years... and YEARS. Well, the wait is over. I played the game over on GTLive and knew I needed to talk about the so-called "family curse". Is it real? Is it a lie? Today we are breaking down everything we know to figure out if the Finch family really is cursed... or is it maybe MURDER!
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Credits:
Writers: Matthew Patrick, Zach Stewart and Tom Robinson
Editors: Arthad, Jerika (NekoOnigiri), and Alex "Sedge" Sedgwick
Sound Editor: Yosi Berman
#edithfinch #whatremainsofedithfinch #mystery #curse #familycurse #edithfinchtheory #MatPat #Theory #GameTheory

[@arhamijaz923]

Now we wait for matpat to remember that he promised us a franbow theory all those years ago…

[@neel3287]

Yooo 4 bots 3 min i have never seen so many bots come this fast

[@connormcconnell7805]

Man dats a lotta bots

[@SaveFrog]

im quite sorry for all the bots my man

[@armaggedon390]

I'm old enough to remember he still owes us a Final Fantasy video.

[@Darpidia]

​@@user-xu6yh9ph3i this is a sick Bot. Disgusting

[@unknownvariable9239]

I remember seeing a theory about how historically many “family curses” were actually mental illness being passed down, I think that’s what this is about, many of them died because delusion or how they see the world

[@benito23453]

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[@benito23453]

А

[@heyitzmae]

there’s a great video about edith finch out there about how edie is perpetuating the idea of the curse as a way to keep the memory of her deceased family alive which is really enjoyable

[@absolutemaniac7368]

Yeah, I think it's supposed to be like something like mass hysteria.

[@aguy3953]

I mean , there always used to bots under videos, but this is an apocalypse

[@urFBIguy]

Joseph Anderson YT video from like 5 years ago said it best….Edie was the villain of the story, but not because she caused the deaths, but rather because she forced the family to be so comfortable with death, mortality, and the family “curse” that they fail to take basic precautions to ensure their safety….they were all doomed anyway, so why worry about it.

[@tayloranderson7547]

You should worry you should worry about it.

[@jrw3620]

@@tayloranderson7547 I think that last part was rhetorical.

[@awetistic5295]

It's too simple to blame it all on Edie. She learned about the curse from Odin. She had lost her mother, baby brother and father before they even arrived at their new home. There are many instances where the game shows that all Finches had unhealthy ways to deal with death and trauma. Edie fully accepts the curse as the family's fate and tries to preserve the moment of death. Walter tries to hide from it and locks himself away. Sam chases, even glorifies death with his war photography and hunting. Dawn tries to bury the past and run from it, but still blames everything on the curse. Lewis escapes into his fantasy world. Every Finch in every generation feels guilty for someone's death. There's also a lot of grief about wasted potential, like with Barbara and Lewis. Edith often comments about how Dawn and Edie had the most extreme ways of coping, but she learns to understand both. None of them are evil, that's the whole point of the game. Everyone did what they thought was best and tried to deal with their own trauma. This is Edith's message for her son. "Edie is evil" is the opposite of what the game tries to convey.

[@KlaxontheImpailr]

So a self fulfilling prophecy?

[@astro2076]

Yeah, I was shocked with how the homeschooling room had multiple projects about the family 'curse'. Why teach kids that as if it were a school lesson???

[@richardproper8682]

Quick note: Milton's disappearance is a bit of an Easter egg to "The Unfinished Swan", and earlier game by Giant Sparrow, where he is heavily implied to be the character "The King". The game is also heavily covered in metaphors and symbolism to the point that it's hard to tell what's actually 'true,' but it's likely Milton not only survived, but fathered a child of his own, the protagonist of Swan. He didn't get killed, he ran away.

[@bella_daze3092]

OMG 0-0

[@user-og9ve7km3h]

He did the right choice he said PEACE.

[@vtz2002]

​@@user-og9ve7km3h how does he even survive tho

[@user-og9ve7km3h]

@@vtz2002 huh?

[@Sam-lg8]

@user-og9ve7km3h I think that they are asking how Milton survived on his own if he ran away.

[@FearlessGamer27]

Honestly, I don’t think she is a serial murderer but her refusal to believe there isn’t a curse causes so many deaths. The many poor decisions she made were never fixed because she blamed it on a curse instead of herself and thus never grew.

[@benito23453]

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[@benito23453]

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[@InvestmentIdea]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5zbpGOVicp-kLs Finally its here

[@Gamegobazooka]

This is my personal belief as well. I think the serial murderer idea is a little far-fetched, but she is definitely the true villain of this game.

[@cavemanjr.8161]

oh no 666 likes

[@TheOwlchemist]

Game Theory: Dead kids! It's basically a fast track to a theory. Game Developers: Write that down! Write that down!

[@killnet5638]

Ж

[@zinogoop1544]

Looks like the next mario game is going to get heated

[@marvinsteven3874]

Me an indie game dev: Interesting

[@BergmitetheBlueandPointy0712]

Imagine a game purposely create to bait Game Theory, purposely make them make theories about them.

[@Kami7274]

@Kurtis bbbbbjbjbk bkbkbkbbkbkbkbkbkbbkbpbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbkbkbbbbbbbbbkbbbbpbbbbbbbpbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbkb

[@sunset_grunge]

personally, i think that Molly’s death was as result of her being sent to bed/ not being allowed to have meals for multiple days or even weeks. i think she had eaten the halloween candy in a last ditch effort to eat something a day or so previously, and when Edie found out she had gotten angry. during the different animals she switches through, it depicts her as being starved, and eating the different things that the animal she is, well is. and i can’t remember the exact line, but at the end after the sea monster climbs under her bed and molly is writing. she says something along the lines of “and i will be delicious” and i think that is alluding to her body literally eating itself from starvation. and all of the story’s she made up are from her starving and trying to trick herself into a happy place

[@RackednStackeddd]

I thought that the sea monster was Molly's mind trying to rationalize death. I'm pretty sure the holly berries slowly poisoned her

[@crazyminegamer2339]

@@RackednStackeddd Sounds like a mixture of poisoning and starvation. I’d be willing to bet the reason she died from all those things she ate was because of malnourishment. It made her weaker which meant she was at a higher risk of death from everything she ate than a normal, healthy 10 year old. Since it wasn’t treated as odd in anyway, it’s likely this was a common punishment for little Molly.

[@RackednStackeddd]

@@crazyminegamer2339 I saw someone point out that the empty Halloween basket was a sign of Molly being forced to eat candy because of how many meals she wasn't allowed. Otherwise I can't imagine why an *empty* Halloween basket would be in a child's bedroom instead of tucked away in a closet

[@RubyBlueUwU]

She could be hallucinating from starvation *or* from poisoning, tbh. Either could definitely cause a kid to have some weird thoughts/dreams

[@mikkelsieburg89]

I want to support your idea by pionting out that the halloween candy i dicating that i looked in shotly after halloween, and as a cat when you jump on the trees you can look into the house and see a christmess tree and present. Indicating that she has been staving with little to no meals for almost 2 months. She also siad that she has considered eating her pet fish another sign of prolonged stavation.

[@Marceline_the_Vamp]

I think one of my favourite things about this game is how most of the deaths were totally preventable if edie wasn’t so adamant on keeping the delusion of a family curse alive

[@awetistic5295]

How could the deaths have been prevented? I can only think of Walter's death, if she had talked him out of his fear.

[@samanthaw3845]

@@awetistic5295 I think it’s less that the death could’ve been preventable in the moment of death, and more that the belief in/obsession with the family curse lead to the family being super cavalier with their own safety. Like there’s this attitude around the whole family of “why bother being safe when we’re all gonna die young anyway.” Like Sam getting knocked off the cliff by the deer - maybe there wasn’t anything he could’ve done the moment he got knocked off the cliff to save himself, but if he had just been paying a little bit more attention (and put a bit more thought into potential danger), he wouldn’t have been right on the edge of the cliff and it wouldn’t have happened. Same thing with the baby - I feel like there was a bit of a cavalier attitude regarding safety that contributed to him being left alone in the bath for long enough to drown. And flying a kite during a thunderstorm but none of the adults intervened, which anyone can tell you is a bad idea. I think that’s what Edith’s mom meant when she says “my children are dead because of your stories”. Edit to fix spelling

[@thetryhardartist265]

​@awetistic5295 Feeding Molly dinner, keeping an eye on Calvin while he played(or making him come in for dinner) not leaving 16 year old Barbara home alone with a child on Halloween night. Taking Walter to get treatment for the trauma of his sisters death. Sam neglects to make gus come in during the wedding, and neglects his daughters feelings about killing the deer ultimately leading to his own death. So many of these deaths are a product of negligence.

[@prohunter49]

Theory: I think Edie made the stories when molly died because molly's death was because of Edie's irresponsibility. She was so sad and guilty. She made the story of a curse to feel better and stuck with it all her life.

[@xjiden]

this! i always believed Edie created these elaborate stories about a curse to deal with her own negligences as a mother.

[@gary4014]

The “curse” was already a thing, it’s what Odin left Norway because of

[@GoblinSing]

@@gary4014 true, but still with it already being an existing thing it's easy for her to reach to and blame her negligence on.

[@KasTheStars]

Yeah I always thought all of the stories were Edie's coping mechanism that she adapted after losing her mother & baby brother in child birth and then watching her father literally drown in front of her when immigrating to a brand new country. It's kinda like that book Atonement where the story teller gave her sister and her sister's lover the ending they didn't have in real life as they couldn't be together after a false assault accusation. She wanted them to have fantastical story she thought was worthy of them & didn't or couldn't see it may have made things worse for others...

[@evanallaire2829]

How dod EveryoneDie?

[@charleshalcomb5638]

The fact that you represent Edie as an old woman in a suspicious hat, reminiscent of a certain British monarch, is incredibly humorous to me

[@illuminati1866]

...

[@MrGermandeutsch]

@@illuminati1866 ...

[@acidcloak]

@@MrGermandeutsch what it is humorous

[@MrGermandeutsch]

​@@acidcloak oh no, I didn't mean to aim that towards the initial comment, but rather wanted to respond to the "..." comment with my own "..." response. _Because I do not understand what they imply with "..."_

[@acidcloak]

@@MrGermandeutsch oh he ment like he is appalled by the comment but not seriously, and I only ment to joke I didn’t actually mean to be rude or something 😊

[@HopeHendershot-Moskal]

The one thing I noticed is that each generation only has one surviving child left to make the next. Since Edith only had one child, this might break the curse because there are no spare siblings to die. If Christopher only has one child and that child only has one child, most likely no one will have an early death.

[@CreativeWM_Personal]

You're forgetting about Monroe from the Unfinished Swan who is the son of Milton

[@alastairsimpson4305]

Christopher likely wouldn’t have the finch last name due to last names typically being inherited from the father

[@gracehaven5459]

​@alastairsimpson4305 Edith inherited her mom's last name though, as did her brothers

[@elijahlaliberte4495]

“Every Finch is buried in the library.” If the journal is indeed a confession, this line makes a lot of sense. Edie is saying that the real stories of every Finch’s deaths can be found in that library.

[@SteampunkTomato]

Calvin theory: his broken leg likely implies he broke it by jumping off swings like he did in the tale, Edie knew he liked doing this, so that’s why she built one in front of a cliff.

[@dennismichelsen4936]

Wow

[@GracefulStudios]

Ok now Edie is actually being mean

[@tayloranderson7547]

Calvin theory: his broken 💔 leg 🦵 he broke it by jumping off swings like he did in the tale, Edie know he liked doing this , so that's why she built one in front of a Cliff.

[@derpydog5202]

@@tayloranderson7547 thanks for cllearing that up...

[@ZeroX7649]

@@tayloranderson7547 Sounds like something I'd do to my kids. If my kid jumps off a cliff, he jumps off a cliff. If he's dumb enough to jump off a cliff, I ain't shedding tears of that gene pool cleansing.

[@leia3618]

I mean, going to bed without dinner for ONE night wouldn't have killed Molly; I've fallen asleep without dinner before and I'm still alive. But IS it only one night, or was this a recurring event? If Molly was routinely locked in her room without eating, she could've been very slowly starving due to prolonged malnourishment… If this was the case, then Great-Grandma Edie was even more neglectful than Matpat theorizes here…

[@jp_ravenfire]

I think she may also have had a parasite like a tapeworm or something.

[@bradleybrown8428]

Yeah but she was a child, that's not right.

[@leia3618]

@@bradleybrown8428 I never said it was right, in fact I think it was horrible. I'm just saying ONE night without dinner would not have KILLED her.

[@jp_ravenfire]

@@bradleybrown8428 Most of them were children. Even Edith was still only 17. Not a child but not a full adult yet either.

[@featherybastard]

nah her death wasn't starvation, it was poisoning. Miss girl ate a whole tube of toothpaste and holly berries (which are poisonous) and prob some other things.

[@abygalegreen2316]

While I’m not sure if Molly was deliberately killed by Edith there was definitely something weird about her death. I mean I found it strange that Molly mentions a lot of the animals she is hunting are mothers (the mother sparrow and mother rabbit ect.) does that show Molly has a grudge against or even blames her mother for causing her death as she is dying?

[@FacingVicissitudes]

I think it was Edie who wrote her diary and the whole "I would be delicious" would take a whole turn if you think that those mother animals eating things is alluding to the mother eating a child...

[@Kelaiah01]

Here's something I've never seen anyone else do: list out the timeline. 1880 - Odin born Jun 17, 1915 - Sven born Apr 8, 1917 - Edie born Jan ???, 1937 - Ingeborg dies in childbirth; Johann is stillborn Jan 7, 1937 - Odin sets sail for America with Edie and Sven Dec 11, 1937 - Molly born Dec ???, 1937 - Odin dies (57), the old Finch house sinks 1938 - Sven starts building the new Finch house Oct 31, 1944 - Barbara born Dec 13, 1947 - Molly dies (2 days after turning 10) Apr 25, 1950 - Calvin and Sam born Aug 26, 1952 - Walter born Oct 31, 1960 - Barbara dies (16th birthday) Sep 21, 1961 - Calvin dies (11) Oct 31, 1961 - Barbara's comic is published Aug 26, 1964 - Sven dies (49) on Walter's 12th birthday Sep 6, 1966 - Sanjay Kumar born Sep ???, 1967 - Sam sleeps with and impregnates Kay Apr 25, 1968 - Sam (18) enlists and marries Kay May 7, 1968 - Dawn born Nov 1, 1968 - Walter (16) enters the bunker Jun 20, 1969 - Gus born Jan 12, 1976 - Gregory born Dec 8, 1977 - Kay and Sam begin divorce proceedings Dec 19, 1977 - Gregory dies (1) 1977 - Kay and Sam divorce Nov 8, 1982 - Sam remarries an unknown woman; Gus dies (13) Jul 16, 1983 - Sam dies (33) Aug 18, 1986 - Dawn and Sanjay take a photo together June 12, 1987 - Dawn leaves for India 1987 - Dawn marries Sanjay Dec 27, 1988 - Lewis born Summer, 1989 - Edie refuses to leave home because of forest fire June ???, 1991 - Edie gives a big interview about a 'moleman' living under the Finch house May 19, 1992 - Milton born Feb 14, 1999 - Edith Jr. born; Edie "revisists" the old Finch house Feb 22, 2002 - Sanjay dies (36) 2002 - Dawn brings her children back to the Finch house May 19, 2002 - Edie gives Milton a "castle" for his 10th birthday Oct 23, 2003 - Milton disappears (11) 2003/2004 - Dawn seals up the old bedrooms (except for Walter's), as well as Milton's castle and the library; Edie drills in peepholes Mar 31, 2005 - Walter dies (53) (Edith mentions seeing Edie sneak down to the basement with packages; was this when Edie went down to the bunker to make a memorial for Walter?) 2005 - Edie tells Edith that the "dragon" in the pond killed Sven 2005/2006 - Lewis graduates high school Nov 21, 2010 - Lewis dies (22); Dec 5, 2010 - Dawn and Edith leave; Edie dies (93) Oct 12, 2016 - Dawn dies (48) Oct ??? 2016- Edith returns to the Finch house Jan 18, 2017 - Christopher born; Edith Jr. dies (17) ??? - Christopher visits the Finch house

[@sbeveloaf1120]

Underated

[@Kelaiah01]

@@sbeveloaf1120 Heh, thank you!

[@thetryhardartist265]

You should maybe recheck the end of your timeline, Edith is older than 3 when dawn and the kids return to the finch house

[@Heroofselene]

Can't wait for a sequel, "What remains of Matpat's Sanity."

[@killnet5638]

Ж

[@tayloryost8556]

God what’s with the bots

[@complex2live]

I can't wait either

[@TheRogueWolf]

It'd just be a five-hour montage of FNAF jumpscares and "the box".

[@meioubunny]

at this point what sanity? i dont think he has a lick of it left.

[@pinkbuninja6536]

I’d just like to point out that Molly would have had to miss a lot of meals to die of hunger. Just skipping dinner won’t kill you. Also, for the potentially poisonous things she ate, the lethal dose is usually smaller for kids. If anything, everything she ate might have made her really sick, then no one went to help her when she was suffering. Still don’t know if that’d kill you, but y’know.

[@eileensnow6153]

I thought it was glossed over that “It all started when Mom sent me to my room without dinner” doesn’t specify that she was only there for one night. Maybe she locked her in there without dinner one night and just never let her back out. What kid would be starving enough to eat toothpaste if they ate lunch a few hours ago?

[@DrTheRich]

Who says she was only locked in there for one night?

[@pinkbuninja6536]

@@eileensnow6153 A kid doesn’t really have to be starving to try and eat toothpaste. Honestly, just leave a kid alone with stuff they think they can eat, and they’ll probably try it. That’s why it’s important to keep toxic stuff away from kids or supervise them around it. Heck, even some adults will eat stuff they aren’t supposed to if they’re curious enough. I agree that there’s no way to tell how long she was in there, but many parents have employed the “going to bed without dinner” punishment before, and it’s just dinner, they feed their kids again in the morning. I assume the game wants you to think of that usual punishment.

[@batmanorphan]

Maybe she did fell from the window instead of following to the tree since she mentions she can't go up tall trees or something (that's what I remember) and Edie made it seem like it was from poisoning. Maybe Molly fell because what she ate made her sick and wanted to go to her mom from the front door??

[@tayloranderson7547]

I'd just like to point out that Molly would have had to miss a lot of meals to die of hunger.just skipping dinner won't kill you. Also, for the potentially poisonous things she ate, dose is usually smaller for kids. If anything, everything she might have made her really sick , then no one went to Help her when she was surfing . Still don't know if thatd kill you , but y'know .

[@shelby_lane_]

18:18 I always speculated that Molly died by falling out of the tree outside her window. She was hungry, and didn’t want to go out her bedroom door for fear of being punished further, so she goes out the window to try and get to another room. Instead, she ends up falling to her death. I could be totally wrong, but that always made more sense to me than her starving to death after one day without dinner.

[@nationalinstituteofcheese3012]

Well it’s possible it was more than one day

[@llamamagaming]

i thought that too

[@chuckm1961]

Yep. These folks that think they have "uncovered' some great theory based on going to bed without dinner once .... for all we know, the author of this story attached zero importance to that fact, and just needed to insert it in order to tell the story he/she wanted to tell.

[@existing6439]

One thing that really bothers me is that in the pink bathroom there’s a chair in the tub. That made me think that Edie used it to help while she showered since she old, then I realized Gregory drowned in that same tub and idk about you but I would not be comfortable using the same tub my young grandchild drowned in.

[@awetistic5295]

For Edie, death wasn't scary. When a family member died, it turned into a story for her. They were kind of immortal as part of the Finch legend. She preserved everyone's room (or cage) like it was when they died, so the past was always around for her. I think it was more comforting than scary for her, like they were never actually gone.

[@ellaepoche5671]

Here's a theory about Walter: if you notice, every other Finch's room is related either to their interests or how they died. But while Walter's furniture is based around trains, his room is ocean themed. What if, instead of being hit by a train, he fell off the cliff (where the tracks collapsed) and drowned? And Edie crafted the story to focus on his love for trains instead?

[@helplessnarwhal3722]

That makes a lot more sense. The train never made sense to me because: the tracks lead into the ocean, they live on an island! Why would a train even be near them? Walter is my favorite character, and his death made the least amount of sense to me. What really happened to him?

[@ghostriposte2977]

Waltuh, put your stuff away Waltuh, I’m not cleaning your room for you Waltuh.

[@audz7777]

How would that explain the shaking though?

[@redscience2117]

@@audz7777 The shaking could have just been him having panic attacks or some other kind of mental problem because of his sisters death

[@pimentoenjoyer]

@@helplessnarwhal3722 the tracks actually led to somewhere though. It's on the right side of the part where the land collapsed.

[@arstotzkanplaguedoctor]

Matpat didn't even mention the baby, Gus or Lewis, and when you bring them into the equation it really does change things up, I would say this is game is more about neglect and not being able to deal with the consequences of it properly.

[@PrincessLioness]

Yeah, I don’t why MatPat decided to do a theory on this game. There is nothing to really add here. Everyone has already discussed how it’s about generational curses. And while Edith is to blame for a lot of the deaths, she didn’t directly kill anyone. Those deaths you mentioned disproved the points MatPat was trying to make(which is why he didn’t mention them).

[@ewelinanajgebauer8862]

@@PrincessLioness But then again, there are some red flags in the game-

[@ssencipe250]

Or Milton's story, which is... a whole other deal.

[@sugarbumful]

Well Greg died due to dawn’s incompetence, Gus died due to his own stubbornness and Lewis died because he was too caught up in his own imagination

[@mikpxxi]

@@PrincessLionessI’m sure I remembered Edie telling Louis to stay in the cannery. Even thought he knew his condition. So yeah. It was everyone’s fault for being completely reckless

[@thatfuckinloser4037]

Something I noticed about Molly’s death was that everytime she changed into a different animal, it's a bigger animal who needs to eat more. Almost like as she's drifting off, she's becoming hungrier and hungrier until death consumes her. Which would only make this much sadder.

[@dragonxomega]

It sounds like the fog could be alzheimers, or elderly dementia. Like she forgot what she done, but suddenly, she remembered. The other thing I notice as well is that a lot of the deaths could also be trophies, as I've read that serial killers often keep mementos to relive their acts. Maybe, the stories might act as both trophies, and ways Edie feeds her narcissism and justification for her abusive behavior.

[@RandomghoulZX]

The only issue I have with this theory is that MatPat doesn't even acknowledge Odin's story, where it is stated that he left Norway to try to protect his daughter, Edie, from the very same curse that Edie would recite to the later generations of the Finch household.

[@elewiz4181]

Yeah, that would also somewhat explain her obsession with death

[@karazsteel]

Edie was killing back then too, she was the curse.

[@vschmerz]

@@karazsteel no

[@monroe8566]

Also that he said that Molly starved to death, when one night isn’t even close to enough to starve her? It’s highly unlikely she’s a neglectful enough parent to leave her child for upwards of two weeks without food

[@sarafontanini7051]

obviously that'd just muddy up the whole "edie is a lying murderer" theory

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

Me: Wait so did Walter die by a train? MatPat: “Well yes, but actually no”

[@lancegabriellopez479]

Hope is a scammer

[@_marshP]

Dunno why Mat doesn't believe that one, it certainly seems plausible enough.

[@greyjustgrey2423]

It can't be proven how he died just that it was likely caused by Edie. The train set he was building while in the bunker was the inspiration for Edies story on how he was killed by a train. But Matpat proves it couldnt be a train because there are no large trains in the area where the story took place. Its an unsolved death like Milton who was probably getting too close to the truth. Walter witnessed Barbra's death and Milton found something both disappeared before their stories could ever be heard.

[@belle6808]

@@greyjustgrey2423 milton's name was written in the secret passages, then suddenly they just stopped. a theory i heard was that milton died in one of the passageways

[@karenarriola6152]

@Willy on Wheels don’t expect us to care

[@brianburkhardt3692]

I think that what Edie realized when she found her old house is that there was no curse, that she in part had doomed her family by keeping the constant reminders but also, moreso, that the curse is just in her head- meaning it can’t be undone.

[@hussainiusman9259]

Hi.. Contact me 👆👆. I have something for you.🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@holdensaia5962]

I think one conflict in the game is about how much you should talk about family history and have it in your life. Edie literally looks liver in a house that several of her children and grandchildren died in but Dawn (Edith’s mother) is the opposite she wanted to run away from all of the history and trauma and what you get from Edith is those two ideas implanted in her head and her trying to decide which side she should be on and the game is saying while you should not neglect the past you shouldn’t live in it and running away from it only runs away from your problems.

[@rosehauntscheese8606]

I always thought the rattling that was the 'monster' going on was just the train going overhead, shaking the whole place, and the 'monsters' that killed Barbara were just the Hookman's gang in monster costumes.

[@awetistic5295]

That is exactly what the game implies.

[@rowangothic]

Fun fact about Milton's disappearance: there is another game that the developers made that supposedly explained what happened to him, and the game is in the style of Milton's art. I haven't played it for myself yet, so I don't know if that's true, but it seems interesting.

[@psychautica]

Ignore the bots but yea! It’s been said a lot that it’s connected and the king is in fact Milton, i really hope they play it and make the connection of Milton being the king.

[@Specsboy1999]

The game OP is referring to is called The Unfinished Swan for anyone wondering.

[@dannymccrea9642]

The unfinished swan. One of the first games I played on my PS4, still remember it, a both beautiful and very creative game

[@alienjesus796]

yes, in that game it shows Milton ran away from home

[@kamisnotanerd]

Ya, it's actually confirmed that he's the king on the unfinished swan!

[@matthewmozingo3625]

I think the “concept” binders in Edie’s room are actually concept sketches for each family member. Since the game tells us that Edie was a skilled artist and painter. She also frequently paints members of the family and is the one who made all of the memorial portrait plaques around the house.

[@novaaxolotl7899]

i agree as an artist, concept design is how i go about making characters or pieces, many artists (even older ones) call their original or maybe designs concepts. but my writer and theorist heart wants to believe thats a great place to hide concepts for stories, like death tales.

[@Silly_billy123]

Yeah that would probably make more sense but I dont think she would need an entire BINDER for them.😅

[@npc6817]

@@novaaxolotl7899 dunno man, concept work is essntial when creating characters but portraits? I might've sketched some poses but I never took the effort of making concept work of a single piece.

[@aquasiox4033]

could it not be the same thing ? she also told stories, and paintings and stories are both methods of expression

[@Sylfa]

Considering she made those elaborate paintings/wood burnings for each dead family member, yes I agree that the concept binders would clearly be for her artistic endeavours.

[@saorihernandez5308]

Molly’s death always make me think about the hallucinations and i got to the conclusion that after eating the entire toothpaste, leaded to some convulsions, because after researching, if you eat toothpaste in a extreme quantity, it can have some effects like convulsions, which finally got her to hallucinate and died.

[@hussainiusman9259]

Hi.. Contact me 👆👆. I have something for you.🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@deviousangel336]

Going to bed without dinner was a relatively common punishment back in the day. And while eating those items individually might not kill a small child, it's a different story when you're eating multiple poisonous foods, especially when it comes to children. Molly's immune system wouldn't be very strong, not just because she's a child, but also because hygiene standards were way lower back then.

[@andysmith5806]

Heck, that was still a punishment when I was a kid and I'm only 29.

[@monroerobbins7551]

And lastly, Milton: the last we see of Milton is him, in his own drawings, making a door, and going through it. I think Milton escaped, I think he was one of the lucky ones. You can fake handwriting, but it’s harder to fake drawings, so I think Milton drew him going through a door. I think Milton escaped, to become an artist. Find a wife, even have a child, the protagonist of The Unfinished Swan. But that’s my crapshoot, I doubt it’s true.

[@yohann3825]

No it’s true. It was confirmed by the creators that it is Milton and the protag of the US is his son

[@Impossiblegend]

He's the King in The Unfinished Swan. You can see his kingdom's symbol (moustache & crown) in his room.

[@m.a.y.h2298]

@@yohann3825 omg I'm so happy for him :'0

[@sentientsid07]

@@yohann3825 i am glad if its the case cuz i read some disturbing stuff about him.

[@WolfBoy-om6dw]

I like that idea

[@WitchDoctorMegra]

You never mentioned it, but it would definitely explain the shrines to each family member. Did you notice that even the way the shrines where discovered and talked about, they were presented in a way that made them feel more strange with each one you came across. Like when you start with Molly’s room, it’s presented in a way we’re you feel sympathy towards grandma Eddie, she lost her daughter when she was so young and kept her room as a preserved shrine to her, and makes Edith’s mom look very cold and unsympathetic. Like sealing all the doors to the bedrooms, so she can’t look at the shrines anymore. Then we come to the twins room, the surviving twin had to and I quote “share a room with his dead brother” even explaining how grandma roped off his half of the room and preserving it and your just like…ok. THEN finding that bed and the crib that serve as her moms brothers shrines and seeing the loft that served as her bedroom. Edith even stated that her mom “shared a room with her dead brothers” why would you do that!? The way her room was set up, she practically hid in her loft area and the rest of the HUGE bedroom was left empty around the two shrines because it felt like she was sharing a room with two graves. More room was made for the dead then the living in that house. They built unstable towers into makeshift bedrooms and school rooms instead of using the perfectly usable bedrooms and library. What’s so creepy is that every room preserved, the school room included, had so much love to it. It’s disturbing to think she loved them more when they were dead.

[@Kai-pu2ix]

This is an amazing analysis :) Thank you

[@xanthevandenbroek5217]

This is amazing and horrifying

[@sandshew4158]

Perhaps she felt genuin sadness after the deaths, an emptiness if you will. But like MatPat said she became addicted to it, like a serial killer would. She may have preserved the rooms as a trophy, like how some collect objects belonging to victims.

[@WitchDoctorMegra]

@@sandshew4158 I think your right, I thought about this game a lot after making this comment and thought about how in a lot of media a house is a representation of someone’s mind and perhaps her grandma Edie’s Father’s death was the birth of her coping mechanism, which was to make them a permanent part of the house, and to immortalize how they died like she was fixated on that. There is more symbolism is psychology of a house being too full, like unless you take care of this and clean this out you can’t make room for anything else (I am not 100% on this symbolism) and in a way that’s kinda what happened she was making these crazy additions to the house that were vary unstable. Like what she thought was a way to deal with her grief was ok at first, with Molly’s room she wasn’t hurting anyone, same thing with Barbra’s but with the twins room you see that it’s starting to hurt others it wasn’t fair for Sam to have his room like that, her coping mechanism was no longer ok but how do you tell someone that?

[@sandshew4158]

@@WitchDoctorMegra it's a complicated topic to bring up, especially when they don't know what their doing is wrong. I think a professional who has had similar cases would need to be called in. The more I think about it the more it seems like the Grandma doesn't realize what she's doing is wrong. Her father's view was imprinted on her, along with other possible reasons she didn't see death as wrong or painful. She romanticized the idea of it with her stories, actions and building's. Similar to modern media regarding eternal life, vampires, werewolves and the paranormal

[@lucychristine7454]

You didn't even mention the line "mom blamed Edie" in regards to Milton's death.

[@awetistic5295]

That doesn't mean Edie's actually responsible though. It just shows that Dawn didn't have a healthy way to cope with the family tragedies either.

[@liamfaoisidhe.]

​@AWEtistic Alright, I'm curious. Why are you in every comment defending Edie? While I don't think she ever intentionally harmed her family, to be honest, I've noticed you seem to make it your goal to disprove the sentiments of every person's ideas in this section, specifically in regards to Edie. I'm just curious, why?

[@voluntarilylost]

​@@liamfaoisidhe.let me know when this person answers; I wanna know this as well!

[@dillpickle663]

One big thing mat missed about Barbara’s story is that her parents, Edie and Sven, went to the emergency room because Sven cut himself with a table saw. I think that part is true and would explain why they were alone, so Edie couldn’t have directly caused Barbara’s death

[@awetistic5295]

There is nothing in the game to doubt the injury. Sven didn't seem to be the most responsible and careful person, but honestly, anyone can hurt themselves on a saw. The game heavily implies that Barbara was murdered by that masked gang. It was probably just a senseless killing and Edie tried to cope with it by turning it into a story that gives Barbar's death a meaning.

[@garrettreish5644]

The curse of Edith Finch, is child negligence. While yes, I would argue that mental illness affects some of them to a degree (primarily Lewis and Milton). The leading cause of all their deaths, is neglect. The curse is in some ways responsible, but it is mostly a scapegoat that is used to explain away their neglegiant behavior. I agree Grandma Edie is the "villain", but only because she is so lost in this curse stuff that she feeds to the Finch children. She seems to revel in the publicity it gains the Finch name. The reason Edie is still kicking in old age is because she was the one who unintentionally killed her children, and perpetuated the negligence. We can't know what things were like before they sailed the house across the ocean, but perhaps something about that trip changed Edie. Or having her own children changed her. Who knows. That's my take of the game at least.

[@jamescolm1133]

I feel like the Barbara theory he had seems pretty plausible even though it may have been on accident

[@Sunny-ek8sx]

I totally agree. I think Edie may have purposefully neglected them in hopes of their deaths and the attention that comes with, but never in the game did I think Edie actually like murdered them.

[@no-one_nobody]

Don't think so. There are many deaths that are impossible to link with Edie.

[@Felix-mj6vo]

I saw another theory here on KZbin, which said that the Finches where just impulsiv, reckless, and as you said, negliant. I think that plays into it aswell. I don't think Eddie is actively killing her family, but indirectly through the Story of the curse and being someone who encourages recklessness and impulsivity.

[@Unknown-br1uf]

"Curses are real... ...we make them so 👁"

[@Hyper_Fixation]

I have two theories about the monsters who killed Barbara. 1) They could have been her fans from the monster convention she was supposed to attend. Since she had to stay home and couldn't go to them, they came to her. We know how there are some crazed fans out there who take their obsession with their idols dangerously far. 2) The radio in the comic also mentions "a gang of hoodlums terrorizing Orcas Island tonight." They were the ones led by the Hook Man, so maybe when she overpowered him, the rest of the gang finished the job.

[@zagreatdragon417]

Hey, its the 9th Doctor

[@timothyjosephbonilla1108]

Actually it was said that Walter saw something that made him traumatized, I want to theorize it was gangrape but that's taking it too far. What is known is that there are monsters.

[@isaacchavez5715]

@@timothyjosephbonilla1108 you mean Walter?

[@timothyjosephbonilla1108]

@@isaacchavez5715 oh yeah my bad

[@nnnnmhughuuhhjiijj9457]

@@timothyjosephbonilla1108 Sh*t, if that's true, then man...

[@hal-df4nk]

On the subject of the train: Steam and diesel engines don't run on underground lines because they would suffocate the crew/passengers

[@MannoMax]

I also don't think a railway would be running a steam locomotive in 2005.

[@ProtagonistVon]

I don’t think she was the “grab a knife and stab” kind if murderer but she at least was neglectful overall to the living and liked attention that I believe she probably might have kicked a dead horse or 10 if the situation called for it.

[@lilnorty3233]

MatPat you should do a theory on the game “Oakwood”. • missing kids •letters that explain a story • Dinosaurs Every thing you need to make a theory.

[@thebeastqueen3103]

yes he should

[@maxdecember7485]

You had me at dinosaurs

[@gutted0ut_via.mp481]

Omori

[@salpherite962]

no clue what or where this game is from but I’m very much looking forward to whatever it is

[@fliplix70]

You got me at dinosaurs

[@jeremybrown2116]

When Edie writes about the being lost, the fog rolling in, then finding old house and basically regaining control it reminds me of dementia. Most likely either Lewy body dementia or Pick’s disease (which usually starts around 45) it could even be a mix of things it is a game :). Could be that she was no longer aware of murdering her family and her subconscious used these stories as a form of confession. So she starts off as the worlds worst mom and kills a child or two and copes with writing stories for fame, then gets dementia, drinks her own cool-aid, kills and keeps up the cycle while forgetting. If that's the case she might believe what she what she wrote thinking that it's the only viable answer.

[@deonx262]

"drinks her own kool-aid" 💀💀💀

[@yourshoulderdevil5229]

That makes sense.

[@REDARROW_A_Personal]

Ironic since the game tries to write it's self as wholesome to a degree. Like at the end you literally all the photos of the Devs with there families in the credits.

[@kuza3991]

Repent and follow Jesus my friend! Repenting doesn't mean confessing your sins to others, but to stop doing them altogether. Belief in Messiah alone is not enough to get you into heaven - Matthew 7:21-23, John 3:3, John 3:36 (ESV is the best translation for John 3:36). Contemplate how the Roman empire fulfilled the role of the beast from the sea in Revelation 13. Revelation 17 confirms that it is in fact Rome. From this we can conclude that A) Jesus is the Son of God and can predict the future or make it happen, B) The world leaders/nations/governments etc have been conspiring together for the last 3000+ years to accomplish the religion of the Israelites C) History as we know it is fake. You don't really need to speculate though because you can start a relationship with God and have proof. Call on the name of Jesus and pray for Him to intervene in your life. - Revelation 3:20 Revelation 6 1st Seal: White horse = Roman Empire conquering nations under Trajan 98-117 AD & Gospel spreading rapidly. 2nd Seal: Red horse, bloody civil wars with 32 different Emperors, most killed by the sword. 185-284 AD 3rd Seal: Black horse, economic despair from high taxes to pay for wars, farmers stopped growing. 200-250 AD 4th Seal: Pale horse, 1/4th of Romans died from famine, pestilence; at one point 5,000 dying per day. 250-300 AD 5th Seal: Diocletian persecuted Smyrna church era saints for ten years, blood crying out for vengeance. 303-312 AD 6th Seal: Political upheaval in the declining Roman Empire while the leaders battled each other. 313-395 AD Revelation 7 Sealing of 144,000, the saints, before trumpet war judgments, which led to the fall of the Roman Empire. Revelation 8 1st Trumpet: Alaric and the Goths attacked from the north, the path of hail, and set it on fire. 400-410 AD 2nd Trumpet: Genseric and the Vandals attacked the seas and coastlands, the blood of sailors in water. 425-470 AD 3rd Trumpet: Attila and the Huns scourged the Danube, Rhine & Po rivers area, dead bodies made water bitter. 451 AD 4th Trumpet: Odoacer and the Heruli caused the last Western Emperor (sun), Senate (moon) to lose power. 476 AD With the Western Roman Emperor (restrainer of 2 Thes. 2) removed; the son of perdition Popes took power. Revelation 9 Two woe judgments against the central 1/3rd and eastern 1/3rd of the Roman Empire. 612-1453 AD 5th Trumpet: Locust & scorpions point to Arabia, the rise of the Muslim army. Islam hides Gospel from Arabs. 612-762 AD 6th Trumpet: Turks released to attack Constantinople with large cannons (fire, smoke, brimstone). 1062-1453 AD Revelation 10 The little book is the printed Bible, which was needed after the Dark Ages when Scriptures were banned by Popes. Revelation 11 7th Trumpet: Martin Luther measured Roman Church; found that it’s an apostate church, not part of true temple. The two witnesses are the Scriptures and saints who proclaim the pure Gospel and testify against the antichrist Popes. Papal Church pronounced Christendom dead in 1514 AD. Silence for 3.5 years. Then Luther posted his 95 Thesis, which sparked the Protestant Reformation and brought the witnesses back to life. Millions of Catholics were saved. Revelation 12 Satan used the Roman Empire to try to wipe out the early Church, Satan was cast down as the Empire collapsed. Revelation 13 The antichrist beast Popes reigned in power 1,260 years, 538-1798, is the little horn of Daniel 7, son of perdition. The false prophet Jesuit Superior General rose to power from land (earth) of Vatican and has created many deceptions. Revelation 14 Points to great harvest during the Protestant Reformation & wrath on Catholic countries who obey antichrist Pope. Revelation 15 Overcoming saints victorious over the beast. Prelude to 7 vials and judgment on those who support Papal Rome. Revelation 16 1st Vial: The foul sore of atheism was poured out on Catholic France, leaving them with no hope, led to revolution. 2nd Vial: The French Revolution started in 1793, killed 250,000, as France had obeyed the Pope and killed saints. 3rd Vial: The French Revolution spread to rural areas of France, where Protestants had been killed in river areas. 4th Vial: The bloody Napoleonic wars shed the blood of countries who had revered and obeyed the antichrist Pope. 5th Vial: Judgment on the seat of the beast. Papal States invaded in 1798, Pope imprisoned, removed from power. 6th Vial: The Turks vast domain dried up, they were only left with Turkey. They lost control of Palestine in 1917 AD, Israel became a nation again in 1948

[@storiesbylolo]

The curse is basically every generation, only one will live on. When Edith died young from childbirth, that means that Milton is still alive and the only one of that generation of kids that will live on.

[@lightludology9081]

If it was a curse, I think it's when someone wants to leave the house they die. Even the more horrific ones like the baby wanting to go to the Ocean (Or having to leave due to divorce as they were already fighting), Molly leaving the Window to forage outside, or the brother wanting to go to a fantasy world. More literal stories of Walter leaving the basement, or I think Barbara wanting to leave potentially with her boyfriend have the same cause-effect. That's why the Grandma lived so long, she never wanted to leave even when being evacuated. Edith makes a mention she wished she stayed as a kid, but her mom wanted to leave and she died. BUT, after Edith returns she dies a few months later. And now, her son has returned, and I think it means he'll die soon too, unless he stays in this house, which is sad because he was never born there and could have avoided it

[@SitckmanWeegee625]

Fun Fact: Milton didn’t die, he also appears in another Giant Sparrow game, The Unfinished Swan in which he is The King, a Reddit AMA with Giant Sparrow confirmed this, there also easters eggs to The Unfinished Swan in his room, such as the Paintings and Sketches of Various Characters, and also that Milton is wearing a crown

[@araisikewai]

Milton is the King and the King died at the end of the game. Furthermore, since we can't take any story in WRoEF at face value, we also can't trust Unfinished Swan just as it is. There are plenty parts of Unfinished Swan that clearly potray the Finch house. There's a tree where you can climb back into the castle, just like Finch house. That the Lazy Giant they mentioned was clearly meant to be Lewis. And if you see the last stage/King Statue through the telescope, it somehow seems to be located at the same spot with the sunken house. My theory is Milton played in the woods around the house. Following the river and then got swept away into the sea. He clings on to the sunken house and eventually died of drowning there. The entire Unfinished Swan was a single last thought Milton has before his death. He sees his entire life, the possibility of it, flashes by before his eye. Also the King's wife was his creation/imagination. Therefore, the King's son who you played as was likely to be the King/Milton's imagination as well.

[@smiththeinspiringanimator7042]

Awesome and cool!

[@dedekorkut5655]

@@araisikewai all bad things cant

[@rivetsquid8887]

Milton being the king doesn't mean he didn't die. It means he died like Lewis, so entranced by the world's in his head that he probably just wandered off into the woods one day. Tbh there was probably some mental illness running in the family exacerbated by Edie turning everything into a fantastical tale.

[@insane911g]

I immediately noticed that too! That was a great Easter Egg.

[@tatumfowler3603]

I always thought that Edie saying her husband was killed by a dragon was a fun, sweet way to make her late husband into a kind of fantastical hero to his descendents.

[@beauvillamor621]

yeah there are a lot of things mat miss in terms of subtext, as well as actually paying attention to what the story was trying to tell in the environment

[@janiyahford3362]

I know this is a old video now but it should be mentioned that if Edie was passing the torch onto Edith, she seemed to have succeeded. At the end of the game, Edith writes a book detailing her return to the home to her son. Not saying he’s gonna continue this spree, but Edith is, in a way, perpetuating the cycle. Great video!

[@justyour_localcanadian]

Just came to me that grandma Edie and Edith have the same names (Edie short for Edith) and he might be on to something when he's saying "she was passing the torch" it seems odd to me that are the only charcters who have the same names so it might be a connection that she was supposed to be the next great grandma Edie

[@neveerland]

they are both named edith, edie is just a nickname

[@justyour_localcanadian]

@Isa thank you for telling me edited the comment! 😊

[@neveerland]

@@justyour_localcanadian aww you're welcome friend!

[@deadby.moxxie]

here’s something adding on, Barbra was a child star, for her to have been a child star Eddie as her mother would have had to supported and overall help mange Barbra’s career, Eddie saw potential in Barbra if it was her idea or not and used it for fame, going in hand with the fact that’s what Eddie wanted fame, and when Barbra was all washed up and couldn’t preform like she had Eddie got mad, that could have been the fight? Eddie was mad Barbra couldn’t preform anymore and even if Eddie didn’t intentionally kill her she used Barbra’s death as fame.

[@user-jm6qe6sz2p]

MatPat is a brain burner!(Правдивое видео):... kzbin.info/www/bejne/m37Zi4OMasaWrdk

[@benito23453]

Ж

[@benito23453]

Ш

[@cheyannegiles9772]

y'all are really wanting, with no evidence, for an old lady, with admittedly really bad coping mechanisms, to be a murderer huh? Because every story needs a black and white bad guy huh? You need to fulfill your "evil villain" quota?

[@vbucksroblox7368]

Skini kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2LNaqKtd9qqmrM

[@unknownvariable9239]

The lore is my favorite part of this game. You never really know what truly happened and a lot of the reasoning and explanations are based on your imagination and intake on the game. Nice to see a theory on it

[@benito23453]

Ж

[@benito23453]

Щ

[@omega7057]

You got all the bots on you mate

[@vbucksroblox7368]

@Redstone Creator hahahha

[@alexandriatrenier7366]

I love that too. The blur between truth and tale thickens. It peaks my curiosity.

[@Zanzibar-2000]

My grandma exhibits Edie's behavior in a way. Twisting stories to make her the hero, guilt tripping family members to do her bidding, making parents feel like they've done something wrong and Edie is the one to fix it all. Sure she hasn't murdered anyone but that behavior has pulled me and my immediate family away from that part of my family. Like Edith's mother had

[@kennycringeworthy]

Thats gaslighting.

[@nationalinstituteofcheese3012]

@@kennycringeworthyDo you know what gaslighting is?

[@TheAdvertisement]

2:36 I love how Matpat refers to an unstable Jenga tower as "late game". xD

[@brenolk4642]

I think my favorite theory about Milton Finch is that he got trapped within the walls of the house, its shown to us the house has hidden passages and early game Edith says Lewis hinted at the passages to his sister, so what if he was told the same thing by Lewis found what he thought was a passage and got trapped in the walls

[@darktetor]

It was confirmed by the developers that Milton is the king in " The Unfinished Swan" so he escaped as a child by drawing that door.

[@vbucksroblox7368]

Virrik kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2LNaqKtd9qqmrM

[@arfsnmdgn9271]

@@vbucksroblox7368 ty dude

[@Hamlettte]

I already watched another video talking about how Grandma Eddie was actually the villain of the game, and I agree. She continued to glorify death because of a 'curse' that supposedly followed them from their old land, she made shrines of their rooms and continued to build up the house instead of reusing the rooms as families should

[@Superwazop]

Joseph Anderson’s essay I think, actually I prefer his theory over gt’s one

[@Lua-nq7fw]

@@Superwazop same

[@Hamlettte]

@@Superwazop yeah it makes more sense rather than Matpat's grandma is a murderer theory. Like with the Barbara one. Yes, I agree that Eddie did sell the rights to make that comic about Barbara's death and revelled in the spotlight it attracted but not that the reason he gave that Eddie killed Barbara (even if insinuating by accident). It made more sense that her boyfriend killed her since he also had gone missing by what Joseph mentioned in his video

[@Ollie_Buggz]

The family curse is a cover-up of the neglect that edie was putting her family through, which eventually led to all of their deaths.

[@user-fw9vw6dv6i]

this does make sense, but I think you missed a great detail. in Edith Sr's room, there is a news story in the form of a flipbook of sorts that tells the story of how the house sank and Odin's death (you know the one). In the first image it had stated that "for 500 years the Finch family have been famous for their fortune and misfortune". This suggests that the family curse has been actively affecting the family for a while before Edith Sr was even born.

[@sapphirewingthefurrycritic985]

As someone who has been to Orcas island multiple times, I can confirm that the island is way too small for an active rail line. You can literally drive from one end of the island to the other in about 30 minutes.

[@jamescolm1133]

Yeah but unless Edith is lying she sees a railroad and the path Walter took. It probably was just a fictional thing they added not everything has to be exact to the real world

[@soldier-tfindustries9991]

Or- a more simple Solution is: A Car hit him. It's simple really. He got all exicted and didn't look before crossing the Street.

[@salami9488]

It’s weird because in the game’s “reality” Edith walks out and there are remains of train tracks that are broken off at the end where Walter supposedly died

[@mikailvandartel]

@@salami9488 could be that Edie had those installed after Walter's death to enrich the story

[@Emmy_Gamer]

Thats true

[@CottonCandySharks]

I think it is Edie's fault, but in the way that she turns negligence into fantasy. A lot of deaths were preventable accidents, and some (like Walter) were caused by not taking their concerns seriously. The guy is traumatized, get him some therapy, don't call him a mole man.

[@jillianh.7619]

One of the things I find interesting about the title image for the game is that it looks like someone’s hand/arm reaching out of the water. I wonder if it is referencing the family trying to escape the tragedies of the family (and the “curse”), but are dragged down by Edie and her obsession with her father’s teachings, and the original house in the water

[@Bananasplitsssz]

As sad as this game it’s so beautiful the storyline, the plot even the deaths where all unique and portrayed sweetly.

[@guardianhawkpool]

i am SO surprised that you didnt bring up the music box in Barbara's comic. It was the biggest red flag to me in that entire game since it was supposed to be just another campy comic story and yet, it revealed how to get the key to the basement. HOW would the authors and artists know about the music box holding the key if not for Edie or someone else in the home telling them? this would've worked great for your theory :0c

[@dimpledwonder7461]

I think the “concepts” are concepts for her wood oil paintings. The damming thing for Barbara is that the comic knew about the secret key

[@waaa7732]

That's what I've always thought the "concepts" were. References and sketches for her paintings. I'm pretty sure there's one for edith which giving matpats logic doesn't make any sense

[@askaradark8828]

I even think that the fog referes to an illness like demenita. Because you are not noticing things around you, you tell fantastical storys and maybe the quote got turned around referes to how she was raised by her father who loved death and maybe even made her the killer she seames to be. Actually the returning to the house could be the grandmas clean moments where she knows what happened and where she wrote that book.

[@supamat4]

That was my thoughts. and she says after the fog clears things came back to her, her family, her actions and the light upstairs turns on, a phrase for someone's mind just realizing something important, important enough to write a book because no one would listen

[@awetistic5295]

Odin didn't love death, he left his country to escape the curse and protect the family. There is nothing in the game that actually hints at Edie being a killer. Edith's dialogues actually spell out verbally that every family member had unhealthy ways to cope with loss and how she can now see both Edie's and Dawn's side. There was recklessness, negligence and bad luck, very likely also mental illness and an overly vivid imagination. But the whole "Edie is evil" theory turns a very nuanced, multi-layered game about dealing with grief, guilt and wasted potential into a dumb murder mystery.

[@Ricky-ib5os]

I feel like Edie kept Walter trapped in the basement because she knew he saw her murder his sister. Hence why she brings 'packages' downstairs, they are most likely basic essentials so he dosent die. He dug his way out because it was his only choice. But thats just a thought.

[@alienorca4137]

I don’t know, during Matpat’s playthrough on GTLive I more interpreted the whole story being about a family that refuses to accept death, except for grandma Edie who has gotten a bit to comfortable with it.

[@Madison-iw8ix]

I really like that take on it.

[@themysterfox8695]

Personally,I always thought the curse was made up as a coping mechanism for all the familial trauma and death, leading to no action being taken to avoid more familial trauma and death. The supposed curse goes all the way back to the original Edith's dad.

[@awetistic5295]

It must go back even further. Odin left the country when the curse hit him and he lost his wife and son. He must have been convinced that the curse was true and he was scared enough for such a drastic step.

[@YogiTheBearMan]

When I played I figured the death stories were completely fabricated and the family just has some kind of illness. Or the house had a leak or something

[@ZK-ib2wp]

Personally I really like the idea that the family suffers from some kind of hereditary mental illness that would cause them to have delusions and such. Or maybe Edith's trauma caused her to develop some sort of illness and she passed it on to her family like a sort of cult so they all believed in the curse?

[@awetistic5295]

@@ZK-ib2wp They are all creative and have a vivid imagination, which is definitely linked to mental illness. It's so common in artists, unsurprisingly. I think the curse has been in the family for much longer, maybe Odin also had altars in the original house. He brought it with him, so it must have been very important to him.

[@pearlgoddess2940]

3:09 A young 17- year- old mother- to -be. Just this fact alone should tell you how bad news the family is.

[@th3s3us_27]

i always thought that molly ate fake berrys and she died because of what ever they were made of

[@threegsgaming6959]

Matt didn't bring it up, but in Lewis's story he says that there was a "wise calico who advised him". When I first heard that, something rubbed me the wrong way. What if the "wise calico" was Edie with Molly's story or her cat ears, and the "advice" she gave him was either going off his meds or encouraging his fantasies, hence pushing him to his death? I seriously think the "wise calico" he mentioned is her.

[@Nat0521]

I think the wise calico was Lewis’s therapist, who had unintentionally encouraged the daydreaming that ended up killing him

[@bragielizabeth]

I always thought it was Molly, the stray cat they adopted.

[@ashleyquinn7658]

@@bragielizabethit is, you can see a huge cat with a molly name tag in his fantasy at that part

[@ZackMorrisDoesThings]

So, having played through the game again on stream myself, I do definitely think Edie embellished parts of her family's stories for profit. Several of the Finches are definitely unreliable narrators or otherwise seem implausible. But also, doing my own research, the developers have confirmed that Milton Finch is the main central character of their previous game The Unfinished Swan, as without spoiling it, he managed to live to a ripe old age, and implies that whatever it was he found in the house made him decide to go off the grid so his family couldn't find him.

[@Nox_Desiree]

I assume Milton was born after Barbara's death. If Edie really did kill her then the only explanation for her body was eaten is that maybe the authorities never found a body? It is possible Edie hid her body somewhere on the property as she wouldn't have been able to bury it in the grave without raising suspicions. It is possible through his own exploration Milton found her body hidden and was like "Nah fam seeya"

[@RackednStackeddd]

I loved that game! I watched Stampy play it!

[@queeniemarigold]

So he basically became like Walter?

[@ZackMorrisDoesThings]

@@queeniemarigold Somewhat. It's moreso he decided not to let the "curse" control his life, instead deciding to distance himself and continue pursuing art. The Unfinished Swan goes into more detail about the kind of life he lived after that.

[@awetistic5295]

I don't think it was profit, the family was already wealthy. She wanted to immortalize eveyone. The whole house is Edie's attempt to freeze the moment. She romanticizes death and wants to preserve the moment of death for everyone including her pets. The curse has become an essential part of the family identity. She celebrates everyone's death and surely is proud of everyone knowing about it. While Dawn wants to bury and hide the past, Edie loves to talk about and enjoys the attention. After all she has been through, it was her way of coping. Not to be afraid of the curse and loss, but to fully embrace it.

[@noabinnendijk361]

"She'd have to have eaten twenty or so to actually ingest a deadly amount" okay, but is that based on the average person or the average small child? Small children's lethal doses are a lot less than grownups', and on an empty stomach like Molly had it can take even less to kill her.

[@preston7675]

Specifically more then 3

[@victoriasmith7817]

The scream 11:27 made me laugh harder than I should of...

[@artzdroid]

I think it was a scream from Lois griffin

[@nathanevans1382]

The weird thing is Edith dying in childbirth makes the whole "curse" story a lot more believable.

[@zeakninja3419]

I mean lots of woman die in childbirth

[@sealkadoompokemonphd3770]

She was climbing around that jungle gym of a house while pregnant chances are she did something reckless after that that caused her to die

[@solarrrrrrrr]

I think it’s due to the fact that Edith was 17 and not a fully developed adult. So she might’ve had a better chance to face complications / die since teen pregnancy is more risky and dangerous than adult pregnancy.

[@juanfifi4624]

@@solarrrrrrrr not to mention that she must have been going through A LOT of stress thinking about the “curse” and her new child, and recounting all the things her family went through, that could make things much worse to.

[@sadlilbean602]

Including the mom getting sick and eventually dying

[@riley._.5332]

It's important to note that Edie is the one painting everything around the house (other than the one's explicitly signed as Milton), so those "concepts" folders are probably portrait sketches and concept art (likely a nod to game dev)

[@benito23453]

MatPat is a brain burner!(Правдивое видео):... kzbin.info/www/bejne/m37Zi4OMasaWrdk

[@identitycrisis..]

i just wanna point out that in the story edie wasn’t there for barbara’s death. she supposedly was taking her husband to the hospital b/c he cut his arm, so the chances of edie killing barbara are low, which is why barbara had to babysit walter in the first place. NOTE: some if this info is just based of memory so..

[@AYBIOM]

0:01 just reminds me of Technoblade... "If you're hearing this right now, I am dead"

[@Lavender0_0]

:( o7

[@darkdaemon2523]

Yes, Edie is a little obsessed with death, but the other deaths can easily be classified as mental illnesses, hallucination from other sources, and unfortunate accidents, the only mysteries are Barbara and Milton, I think the scream Walter heard was when Barbara got her ear cut off, A lot of the comic's story probably came from his interpretation of events, he was just a kid, and fear does a lot to a young child's imagination, including making him afraid of the rest of the world, which is why he isolated himself, the "packages" Edie brought to the basement were probably just cans of food. Edie still loved the attention obviously, but it was probably also a coping mechanism of losing her family while she gets to live through all that torture for 93 years, survivor's guilt is a thing after all, so of course she needs a coping mechanism.

[@Imperials3nate]

While she's most likely not responsible for later deaths, she could've been responsible for the first few and became obsessed with the fame.

[@karinkl.3411]

I have a theory about Milton: as you walk through the house, you always see that Milton has already been there (he made all the paintings). And he obviously knew the stories, because the paintings are always linked with how a person died (before you come to Calvins room there´s a swingset, Barbara: a pumpkin,...). I think he got scared and left. I mean he was just a kid, who discovered all these stories of tragic deaths. I believe he just wanted to escape the "curse" (simular to how Walter was hiding for the monsters).

[@xdsmile5359]

wow this game is honestly very mysterious and matpat is quite the theorist and often misses marks but also manages to get fnaf theories right.

[@11mr_fox21]

So the Milton mystery is solved with the other game this company made, The Unfinished Swan. In that game the king created a door with a magic paintbrush which lead to a world of his own creation. And in Milton’s tower, Milton had a magic paintbrush which he used to make a door to somewhere. Also I’m pretty sure the devs confirmed it but I could be wrong

[@ImPDK]

I do not believe he just died as soon as he came out of the bunker by coincidence. Either there's really a curse, or foul play is involved. Also why would Dawn rip Edie's book out of Edith's hand? That's the more damning evidence to me. Either Edie knew something she was too scared/apathetic to share or she was the killer.

[@angelsinthewindow]

I always saw it as Edith being a woman with a lot of tragedy in her life, that tragedy basically became a want to hold onto whatever she could to keep her family memories going. Her granddaughter did basically all she could to push her daughter away because she sort of resented her grandmother. For a grandmother who seemed to always want to keep things memorialized, it seemed like a waste in the eyes of our protagonist's mother. It got worse when Milton ran away (I sort of feel like he was similar to Edith in that he loved the stories, the passageways, the mystery and that maybe he fought about that with his mother and ran away.) And because of that, Mom got into overprotective mode and tried to shut everything off from her daughter.

[@kannraorhara]

I've heard that the Unfinished Swan tells Milton's tale and his son his the protag, confirmed by the dev team.

[@vbucksroblox7368]

Tasak kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2LNaqKtd9qqmrM

[@uzuwi9782]

no

[@angelsinthewindow]

@@uzuwi9782 no what?

[@beez5925]

Molly talking to her journal saying that the monster under her bed is going to eat her could be a metaphor for the hunger that is going to kill her but missing one dinner isn't going to do that, I always thought that that could mean that Eddie is going to come in and kill her, for still being up for asking for more food I don't know but ya that's my theory.

[@La_Marquis]

This game has been one of my favorites for years. I’m glad Matt is talking about it :)

[@technotwerp2724]

I really like a lot of what was stated in this theory, but I feel like there are too many deaths that can't be directly correlated to Edie. For example, Gregory's mom just left him in the bath unattended. Gus died in a storm. Edith of course died in childbirth. Not to mention Dawn, who dies of some form of illness. Sam was killed by a deer, far away from Edie. The only deaths that I feel comfortable saying was her fault is Molly's. I will say that I think Milton did run away. Obviously, Milton needed a reason to run away and maybe it was something dealing with Edie. We just don't know.

[@Madison-iw8ix]

I wouldn't even say Molly's was Edie's fault, honestly. Sending your child to bed without dinner wasn't uncommon if your kid acted up back then. Molly wasn't starving to death like Mat claims she was. Molly was the one who ate poisonous berries. Edie didn't shove them down her throat.

[@Rokanarts]

Well the thing mat emphasized was that story of the deaths was made up, they were not real, what you said can be true if we know for sure what really happened

[@ficklepickless]

@@Madison-iw8ix she was still locked in her room. if molly wasn't starving then she probably wouldn't go as far as eating poisonous things. and if she didn't eat those things and died of starvation instead, then that just means she literally wasn't fed in general at least for a few days

[@SquareViking]

Same. Sometimes Mat sees patterns where there aren't any. Sometimes it's confirmation bias, sometimes it's to stand out among the thousands of theorists who piece more plausible theories together. Joseph Anderson did a long video about the game and his explanation makes sense from start to finish. This one has a ton of holes.

[@kharnthebetrayer8251]

@@ficklepickless a kid wouldnt know those are poisonous Going to bed without dinner, shes hungry, so grabs those berries, the carrots, the toothpaste, cuz shes a kid with no impulse control. Shes hungry, theres food, eat it. I doubt it straight kills her with poison I figured it was that she started hallucinating, and climbed out the window, falling out of the tree (since her first hallucination is a cat)

[@OrabitsMadness]

Also the comic about Barbra's death had the secret key in the music box exactly right. Meaning whoever sold the story had to know about the key why leave that detail in unless Edi intentionally included it for some reason. She wanted her kids/grand kids to believe in the stories so left truths in it for them to investigate and believe.

[@SailorMya]

True, it is a very strange thing to know about and Edith would have never guessed that secret and she lived in the house. Chances are they asked her about making a story about Barbra's death and Edie was ecstatic to give them information to make it more realistic. (and to spread the story...) Plus, does anyone else wonder where Edie was that night? She lived there too when this happened... Doesn't seem like she got out much so why was she not there? She just so happens to not be mentioned at all in the story and is out for the night???

[@OrabitsMadness]

If I remember correctly Edi was taking husband to hospital after he had injured himself bad enough that it required medical attention

[@kaidosleftnut5830]

The biggest plot twists of the game imo is how tf did that place sit there for 7 years without being looted. My granny died and the house she lived in was looted like 2 days later.

[@ryunoishi6514]

So neat, this game intrigued me when I was younger. I too came to the conclusion that the matriarch was to blame at least in some part. Hadn't considered Walter's monster being her nor Barbara's hook man being her but that makes a lot of sense and why wouldn't she be involved in all of the deaths if she was tied to so many already.

[@firstnamelastname6686]

Im surprised the other game "the unfinished swan" wasnt mentioned, especially for milton's disappearance. Spoiler alert here but milton seemingly disappeared because he was apparently transported to this magical realm where he could paint whatever he wanted etc, and the even has a child (who you play as). There was another popular video talking about how the finch curse might not be real and all that but like seeing as fantastical elements are kinda canon in this universe, then maybe the family curse does have some semblance of truth to them? Either that or the unfinished swan is also like an extended metaphor or a story that's just littered with fictional elements. One must take note too that since the parents of both protagonists were siblings, and both protagonists are still alive, the curse 1) is going to get at least one of them at some point, and seeing how milton's son is in the painting world, i think edie(?)'s son is gonna get the chopping block if yknow what im saying 2) theorists are right and the curse was never real, and that it might be just edith making stuff up

[@stufferfish2226]

Ah! I want to see someone do a let’s play of Unfinished Swan, I played that game ages ago and was floored when I saw Milton’s room in Edith Finch

[@Luna11280]

All I remember mentioned was he found a door and went through it and went missing and that boy was the boy from unfinished swan

[@Pranksta1985]

Happy to see someone else mention this.

[@jackcassidy9963]

Something a lot of theorists ignore though is that while the curse wasn't real per se, it also wasn't an elaborate murder conspiracy by grandma Edie, but more as a unknowingly harmful way of not accepting reality

[@Barakon]

I thought he just jumped through a window or died of a heart attack or something like that.

[@Imperials3nate]

If this theory is true, then it means the story has a happy ending. Edith never got to read Edie's books and avoided becoming evil, and Edie herself died in 2010. This means Christopher is save from manipulated murder, and the curse- after so many victims -is finally broken...

[@havilahmyers8218]

that's not neccesarily true since he was reading ediths book she left for him and he went back to the house.

[@Imperials3nate]

@@havilahmyers8218 But they'll be nobody to murder him if this theory is true.

[@kaitlynblount7683]

@@Imperials3nate nobody to stop him from becoming exactly like Edie either. He went to the house and read all the stories. Edith's mom felt so strongly about Edie that she moved them out. No one is there to be a voice of reason for him though. He's just soaking up all of Edie's manipulations. The stories of the family curse could continue on through him now.

[@Imperials3nate]

@@kaitlynblount7683 Perhaps, but Edie's confessions were destroyed so he won't be the one causing it nor will another cause it. Then again...the are those books by Edie's father...

[@anngoro1119]

His name is Christopher not Connor

[@hiraeth414]

One Interesting detail about Milton is that he probably did know something before he went missing. It’s shown to us in a crawl space scene that he marked at wall with a painting and signature that Edith points out, meaning he did explore around a lot but wasn’t able to escape Edie’s monstrous ways like Edith did? Idk but I thought it was interesting.

[@elissadeannashorts]

First video I am watching after mats farewell and it just struck. Hella weird. Glad I grew up in this extra excited for the next.

[@ellaepoche5671]

Another interesting detail to notice: in "History of the Finches," there's text written that isn't voiced, where Edie remembers specific items, including the chair her grandmother died in. She also says she tried to protect her children but failed. She also had a sister, who's never mentioned anywhere else.

[@thebrickbulbasaur7628]

I would recommend you check out “The Unfinished Swan” next, it’s by the same creator and was released 5 years before in 2012, but it shows us Milton and sort of what happened, could add some more lore

[@benito23453]

MatPat is a brain burner!(Правдивое видео):... kzbin.info/www/bejne/m37Zi4OMasaWrdk

[@benito23453]

Ж

[@benito23453]

Ш

[@vbucksroblox7368]

Tasak kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2LNaqKtd9qqmrM

[@arfsnmdgn9271]

@@vbucksroblox7368 hahahaha

[@thesmilingman7576]

22:55 Milton isn't confirmed dead and I'm pretty sure he's the protagonist of another game called the Unfinished Swan

[@StephenDurnan]

Dude stop commenting. You've wrote 3 comments

[@stereokuuji]

​@@StephenDurnanYou had heard enough 😂

[@skellington8090]

Great video, Mat! And I think the Devs behind this game made a different game called The Unfinished Swan, and although I have to look deeper into it myself, I think it exposes more about Milton and how he got stuck inside a wall and suffocated? Might be worth checking out!

[@axl_don941]

For Barbra's death, I honestly think her brother was the one who killed her by mistake. I remember someone saying that Walter was possibly trying to help Barbra get her scream back by scaring her, but she fell off the balcony due to fear. That would explain why he stayed in the basement for years on end, due to the guilt he felt causing his sister's death

[@ultimonx9152]

Whaaat a brother killing his sister then out of guilt shuts himself out of the entire world.

[@ultimonx9152]

Specifically by falling

[@strangerdanger2093]

I never thought about it like this! Nice theory B)

[@frostyenderman13]

Everyone's deaths in someway involve a degree of recklessness. Whether it's spontaneous crazy decisions, a lack of attention, or not taking proper safety measures, every Finch death can be traced back to recklessness of either the victim or their family members.

[@claudialuvsu21]

I was thinking this too. Imo, Edie wasn’t a serial killer, but the deaths in her family all have an underlying similarity that they could have been prevented. There was a lot of neglect going on, especially obvious in the case of Molly and Gregory

[@gaminggeckos4388]

Dawn died to an unknown disease, Edith died in childbirth, and Lewis committed suicide. Not sure how those three could be considered recklessness.

[@Acradus]

@@gaminggeckos4388 death in childbirth CAN be due to improper handling of the situation Dawn maybe sure Lewis: suicide is in itself, a reckless act

[@SquareViking]

I mean... Making a swingset 5 feet from a death drop off of a cliff speaks to how insane it is.

[@SilverSkyCloud]

@@gaminggeckos4388 baby in the bathtub too

[@stayfrosty1323]

One of the most amazing and magnificent games to ever be made. I loved every second of it.

[@-Ouroboros-]

I had a very intense dream many years ago. I was the person who ate the toothpaste and berries. I felt like I was in that dream for a day or two just feeling the hunger and constant stomach aches. Later when I woke up I had a stomach ache and went to brush my teeth but we were out of toothpaste. Side note: I had never played or watched someone play it until now.

[@elishajones1286]

After playing through myself, I think the family suffers from an extremely devastating imagination. The majority of the deaths were related to believing fantasies were reality. Couple thoughts, Molly-hallucinating after poisoning herself with holly and the toothpaste (poisonous substance are weight based and what would kill a child is different than an adult). She doesn't hallucinate until after eating the toothpaste btw. Eating the toothpaste alone triggers the bird part. Edie seems to revel in the stories she can spread though, even if she knows they are fake (Moleman, Dragon). I will say that I thought it was an odd mention that she was painting Lewis' portrait (that is what she uses for the death shrines) BEFORE he was dead. If you look around in the library, you will also notice post it notes that are odd. One says "Odin", another says "the day you were born" like she was working on a concept for a story to tell Edith.

[@Imperials3nate]

Well it's likely Edie isn't responsible for most of her family's deaths, but it is likely she's responsible for the first few, and became obsessed with the fame.

[@Joey-td8rv]

minor nitpick, the toothpaste doesn’t actually trigger the bird scene. i think eating anything in the bathroom does. i ended up here after watching ranboo play the game and he flat out refused to eat the toothpaste

[@Firemac]

You can skip eating the toothpaste. It's the berries that triggers the bird part.

[@awetistic5295]

@@Firemac You can eat either one. I think the point that matters is that Molly poisoned herself.

[@nachothedrownedlegend704]

I've always liked the theory that the family suffered from early onset schizophrenia or some sort of maladaptive daydreaming which they didn't realize was a thing at all which killed most of the finches when they were in the peak of their delusional states while this who were affect by the genetic trait were hyperaware of death and so focused on it they led themselves directly to their deaths. And for grandma edie it was no different she was affected like everyone else with delusional or maybe she was driven a little mad by grief to give her such a morbid out look on life either way she seems petrified to leave the home, even at the cost of her own life she didn't want to leave it for fear of death and so she lived by just surviving, and clinging to grief and the memories of those they lost. Mattpatts theory is interesting since I'd never heard but, the finches to me feel hollowed and welcomed to grief, less so the victims of it. Like it was a family friend who everyone felt too much guilt to talk to but just existed constantly. Side note I also love the theory about Milton's "fantastical" whereabouts being linked into another game

[@thegamerfe8751]

Then how did Walter die ?

[@fenmo9533]

@@thegamerfe8751 walter spent 30 years living in the basement of the finch home out of fear of whatever he saw during the night barbara disappeared- the paranoia definitely could have been exacerbated by the family's history of mental illness

[@thegamerfe8751]

@@fenmo9533 yeah, everyone knows that. You still didn't explain his death. Him being in the basement for that long is definitely real and not an illusion, but if we ignore the video he died by getting hit by a train. Either he died that way or it's a lie but it still doesn't explain his death at all.

[@fenmo9533]

@@thegamerfe8751 why doesn't it make sense? i think his death is one of the more straight forward ones. his paranoia made him seclude himself underground and when he finally tried to face the outside he went to the train tracks and was unfortunately killed by the train. if they had known the family curse was just hereditary mental illness, he could have gotten help for it and not hidden in the basement for 30 yrs. if he had nvr secluded himself in the basement, he never would have come up to the train tracks at the wrong moment and gotten hit. hence, his mental illness indirectly caused his death.

[@Justking]

@@thegamerfe8751 he thought he saw a train and was so scared, he had a heart attack

[@BmoreLioness]

You took this story somewhere I had no clue you could take it. I truly enjoyed it!! Opened up a different prospective.

[@amyl2967]

16:36 I’m pretty sure that the berries were made out of plastic so she might choke to death

[@matthewboire6843]

Hmm 🤔

[@stereokuuji]

🤔