Ethics in Video Games & The Cosmic Wheel Sisterhood

[@GameThoughts]

Thank you for watching! What is the trickiest moral dilemma a video game has ever presented you with? Tell me down below!

[@redscorner8276]

Choosing my price at the beginning. I chose coven the first time because I felt it was ironic that I would bring about the end that I predicted. But the thing is….i had no connection to any of the options. I didn’t know anyone in the coven, so who cares? But as I played and actually got to know the coven, when it came time to pay, it was gut wrenching.

[@minosarchive]

beautiful analysis. thank you for making the video. love what you said about the good place and the paradox of the “good person badge” motivation. i played this game 2x so far and both times i felt the presence of my conscience on an intimate level. on the second time around i tried to run a more chaotic play through just to see different outcomes… but i found myself too emotionally attached to really commit to that. it also helps that the writing is so good-i didn’t necessarily care about seeing the same dialogue over again. the game is like poetry in that way. my only gripe is that i wish it was longer! i felt i needed more time to explore these relationships and this world.

[@GameThoughts]

Exactly how I feel about this game! I have the Red Strings Club loaded up and ready for when I want to dive into another experience like this again - because I need more! Thanks for watching.

[@LunaRoseManor]

At some point, the game asks you to make a pizza. Not thinking, I made a neapolitan with mozerella and basil, because that's what I like to eat in real life. Totally forgetting that the person I was making it for was a vegan and she noticed. In the end, my Fortuna's biggest crime was not listening to her friends...

[@GameThoughts]

haha I literally made that mistake both times I played it through, forgetting she was vegan and not just vegetarian (I even put pepperoni on the first time) - This game is something special. Thanks for watching!

[@redscorner8276]

Omg. When I was making the pizza, I was just going for pure aesthetics so I put everything on it. 😅

[@lachouette_et_le_phoque]

I mean, it tricks you a little by giving you all those ingredients so you're tempted to put a bit of everything on there, like every other game would be designed. Iirc I remembered when I played the demo, but then Patrice didn't like the arugula so one person was still disappointed.

[@kasiamleczarska9078]

I swear, you talk about games so interestingly that you make me want to play every single one that you have a video about. It's a mystery to me why your channel isn't huge yet.

[@GameThoughts]

Hahaha aww thank you so much! So kind of you to say 😊 thanks for watching!

[@RyanBeardy]

You find the coolest games to make a video on! I'll definitely be checking The Cosmic Wheel Sisterhood out!

[@GameThoughts]

hehehe thanks doood! I do think you'd really enjoy it actually. Thanks for watching as always. :)

[@stevier.9297]

This game freaked me out. I was limited in my ability to act in my true nature and ended up deleting the game.

[@GameThoughts]

As in, the cards you created didn't give you the fortunes you wanted to read? What an interesting comment. Thanks so much for watching!

[@stevier.9297]

@@GameThoughts As in summoning someone who asks if I want to kill my coven leader-that’s really odd. Asking about if I’d like to sacrifice my coven or someone I love… Anyone who asks me these kinds of questions makes me think I should put down the game. It genuinely scared me.

[@RoseDragoness]

You convinces me to play this, I enjoy it until the game forces me to run a political campaign >.>

[@GameThoughts]

Hahaha that section does go on a little long, but the implications it has toward the end of the game are pretty intriguing

[@RoseDragoness]

Yeah but I still don't like it. Not just because the fate of the coven but... idk, I just don't like it as soon as I see the statistics. I just do whatever and focus on the interactions...@@GameThoughts

[@GameThoughts]

@@RoseDragoness That's totally fair enough -it's a section that feels a little out of place compared to the opening hours, i just think it adds stakes and plays on the "help the collective" messaging. I hope you enjoyed the game apart from that though and I didn't give you a crappy recommendation!

[@RoseDragoness]

oh no, I dont regret it, it just the political stuffs. Maybe hmm.. maybe cause it feels like not integrated well to the game, like suddenly statistics and stuffs..@@GameThoughts

[@GameThoughts]

Yea, it just feels as though it disrupts the gameplay loop that's established before that point. @@RoseDragoness

[@while_coyote]

If you're in a prison for hundreds of years for the "crime" of telling the future accurately, then all bets are off. You can't really do any "wrong" thing at that point because there already aren't any realistic moral rules. That said, self-designed cards is a pretty amazing idea for a deck building game.

[@GameThoughts]

hahaaa, I was waiting for someone to comment with this point - thank you! This is the whole other side to the argument that I didn't have time to really grapple with in the video, but I very much agree with. Thanks for watching!

[@machinfacultatif9012]

I care so deeply for this game. It's nice getting to know how other people feel about it. Personnally, on my first playthrough, I always tried to choose the "selfless" options, but when I saw the heavy cost this had on Fortuna, I chose to be as selfish as possible on the next, only for the game to call me back to reality when the consequences became actually deadly. There really isn't a right or wrong way to play the Cosmic wheel sisterhood, you just get to choose what path pains you the less, according to your own personnal ethic dilemna.

[@parastoosomething]

So i’ve been binge watching your videos in the middle of my little breaks from work, and first, i gotta say, you are suuuuch a lovable KZbinr, like i actually feel myself becoming a fan! And in a day!! Your content have grade A+++ quality, so cohesive, so informative… every time i’m done with one of your videos, not only do i make sure i have hit the like button, but i also wanna double tab the subscribe button and have the button go “subscriber”

[@moeezS]

Excellent video essay! This convinces me to get further into the game cause I played half an hour of it before dropping just cause I wasn't in the mood for the themes, but hearing the praise for the ethical choices and the Incentives for them makes me want to get back into it.

[@GameThoughts]

Thanks ma friend! Glad you enjoyed 😊

[@ketzerapathetic1414]

If you liked this game you might also really enjoy The Red Strings Club. Very similar feel, but cyberpunk aesthetics and a different angle of ethical pondering. Great video!

[@GameThoughts]

I actually have it downloaded and ready to play when I get a sec. Very excited to check it out! Thanks for watching :)

[@GamingExploits]

The intro is making me want to play this game 😮‍💨 great stuff man

[@GameThoughts]

Yesss thank you! You defo should give it a look, I bet you could find some fun guides for it too

[@wereblossoms]

At its best, Citizen Sleeper was forcing me to choose whether to spend my limited time and resources on ensuring my own survival or helping the friends I met along the way at my own expense. However, about halfway through the game during my playthrough I think I kind of "beat" the system - I had more than enough resources to keep myself alive and help people, too. While the stories were still enjoyable, and it certainly felt good to be able to help everybody, at that point the decisions lost a lot of weight once "planned obsolescence" became an empty threat. I found myself missing the tension from the beginning of the game when I was struggling to stay afloat. The fact that some of the resources you need in TCWS can negatively impact other people sounds really interesting though. Time, money, health, energy, and action dice in Citizen Sleeper were always beneficial, it was just a matter of triaging the needs of yourself and others. Once you had enough to go around it became a non-issue. Maybe if it had a similar resource you needed directly at the expense of others, it could have preserved more of that tension throughout for me.

[@GameThoughts]

Citizen Sleeper sounds so cool - I definitely need to check it out cus I've heard loads of really good things. Thanks so much for watching this! Really appreciate the comment too :)

[@jennifertennent8319]

Maybe I will change my mind after playing thru Cosmic Wheel Sisterhood a few more times. I finished it a few days ago and honestly feel a bit empty from the experience. Although some of this could be rightfully attributed to the fact I got what could be considered a bad ending. Spoilers.... I avoided looking up any plot or ending spoilers until I finished the game. Apparently, there are multiple endings where you, your witchy friends and Abramar f--- off to some utopia and live happily together. Toward the end game you can refuse to pay and you have to do this multiple times and if you persist long enough and draw the right cards you are able to re-write reality as you see fit. .... On some fundamental level this bothers me. You made a deal and you need to honor that deal. A deal is a deal, even if it is made under dire circumstances. You don't get something for nothing. I guess I am ok with the twist that Fortuna isn't merely reading people's fortunes, she can write people's futures. But re-writing the cosmic order the way she wants it to be and if I am not mistaken being able to re-write the past... It's too much. Everything feels hollow if you can change anything on a whim. However. there is always an element of chance based on the cards you draw, but still... I suspect that no matter what choices you make the voting process for the next leader of the covenant is thrown into chaos, the only real thing that changes is who is to blame and ascribing a motive. I had the opportunity to blame Abramar for throwing the election into chaos but I refused to do it because in part based on how I played and interacted with him it didn't feel right. I kept wondering if he might try something, but with a few exceptions he was always helpful, witty or neutral. I chose the gift of wisdom and had the option to ask him about his lost love, the first witch. If I had drawn other cards and had better options I would have opted for something better than killing off his love interest but allowing him to interact with her one last time. Abramar was not happy about this... ;/ I realize that it must be a nightmare for game developers to map, plan and create visual assets for every conceivable outcome...but your choices don't feel meaningful if the end results are minor variations of a plot set piece. Another thing that bothers me is at least based on the ending I got, everyone just moved on without me. None of the other characters visit me. I don't get any letters or anything updating me about what is going on. All the characters I meet and got to know I never find out what became of them and how my choices impacted them. What's ironic at least to me is during the election campaign I decided against using my cards to manipulate circumstances in my favor, unless the game script forced me to do a card reading. I believe I was forced to draw cards for the explorer, when I was visited by my mentor and probably when I was visited by a jade sculptor refugee. At least to me it felt wrong to use my cards to alter future events in ways I cannot forsee or control, of course, as Abramar points out to us early on, are we not already constantly meddling in the affairs of others and subtly or not so subtly changing the destiny of individuals and the cosmos? Writing this makes me think of Undertale and what an accomplishment this game is on so many level from the characters, music, the multitude of endings, etc. Maybe I will have better luck next time... This has been quite the rambling post...

[@GameThoughts]

Aw, I love that the game made you engage with that level of detail - to me, it actually shows how compelling the writing is, even if you're not sure how it made you feel. When I got to the end of my first playthrough, I felt kinda the same way. Like I think I mentioned in this video though, try not to think of an ending in this game as innately good or bad - this game presents moral dilemmas and social interactions as grey - they're imperfect, because in life, we don't really ever get a simplistic good or bad situation or outcome. I'd definitely recommend taking a break from it, coming back, and trying a second playthrough but roleplay Fortuna in a different way. You do start to notice the layers upon layers the devs put in place. Thanks for watching, and leaving such a great comment!

[@jennifertennent8319]

​@@GameThoughts Long rambling posts tend to be my thing, which weirdly enough makes some people upset. I have lived and experienced enough in my life to know that a perfectly satisfactory "happy ending" is quite rare outside of fiction. And despite how skillfully you play your cards literally or metaphorically. There remains an element of unpredictability that is outside your direct control. I believe it is said outright that the vast majority of witches are guilty of doing something unethical that could potentially be criminal. No saints to be found here. .... So far the internet hasn't spoiled every achievable ending. I am not overly optimistic, but it will be interesting to see what other endings exist. Ascend and become a Goddess or something beyond a Goddess? Erased from existence for being the biggest jerk by your coven or obliterated by Abramar for the same reason. We'll see what the cards hold...

[@shelseaturner9062]

Ughhhhh I want to play this game so bad!

[@kristofferlape]

Amazing video on one my most beloved games. Subscribed!

[@GameThoughts]

Aw thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed :)