Smash 'N' Splash 3 - Melee Top 3 - Winners Final - Armada vs. Hungrybox

[@Subscriptcat676]

All the Jims complaining about defensive play, are the same people who grind nothing but tech skill, have no neutral game, and get salty when they go 0-2 at their 7 man local

[@sanderwojcik2049]

Defensive play? This is just flat out refusing to interact with eachother. Fighting sports like judo, boxing, fencing have adequate passivity rules to prevent these kind of situations from accuring all of the time. Do you really want to see every match in top32 be a Fox lasering on one side while the other player ledgestalls on the other side for 2 minutes everytime between stray hits? I think that'd be a waste of this beautiful game.

[@Subscriptcat676]

Sander Wojcik yes, it's not the most exciting thing, but I'd rather see this than the game be bombarded with rule changes to the point where the it causes people to quit playing

[@Noxuna]

I'm just playing devil's advocate here but Leffen is also complaining about it and thinks there should be a ledge grab limit, so the idea that only scrubs are complaining is pretty bunk IMO.

[@Subscriptcat676]

Noxuna it's because leffen is a fox main, and nobody beats fox in the neutral, it benefits him directly to have the rules of the game force the slower characters to approach fox

[@Noxuna]

David Betancourt i highly doubt it has anything to do with giving him a competitive advantage but i wont pretend to know for sure and its def a possibility.

[@sitowitz6888]

just watched this back and realized Hungrybox warmed up with Ness lmfaooo

[@Krranski]

rip tv. foot.

[@JuanSebastianMH]

32:06 Hbox punishing roll in is always fun to watch.

[@abcdefzhij]

That wasn't a read, lol dumb commentators

[@iSpeakstheTruth]

lol right? that was option coverage by hbox. armada had a brain fart or missed input

[@mischief_demon]

I said it on the top 8 video, and I'll say it here. I find it funny that in this set, people are going to blame the puff for camping even though Armada was just as campy. The way I see it justified is that fox has a projectile, and puff doesn't. This gives Hungrybox every right to grab the ledge if he's just going to be camped with lasers the moment he steps on the stage.

[@voltingmaster5458]

Take a drink every time hungrybox regrabs the ledge.

[@ItsPooly]

Totally wrong on ledge camping. Hbox is forced to do it either way. On stage or off. The only time he can punish is when Armada fucks up and allows him to avoid most laser damage. Jigglypuff approaching because she has to due to lasers is a 99% losing match up.

[@dfed324]

Seriously, though. People hating on Hbox for the ledge grabs need to shut up. "Melee is dying." How many games does this happen? Once every other tournament? Also, Armada has shine; we all know Mango would definitely wait on the ledge once or twice before going out there to shine Hbox. Timing matters, and Armada is good enough to do that. Finally, ya'll hating on Hbox probably hate on Alabama too. Like Waffles said: defense wins championships. Roll Tide!

[@noahtwigg1885]

all I'm going to say is that both players have quite possibly the best reason to do this whole "Stalling" thing everyone complains about. if street fighter had it where one or two hits meant you lost your entire health bar, I guarantee you that the game would be a slow approach by both players, removing any exploitable gaps until they have safe hits and nothing else on the other person. now replace up throw up air and rest with the single hit or two move combo, and that's why this match is so slow. the neutral game is all that matters since the punish game is basically a stock per hit/opening, and who would rush in if they knew the slightest tech flub or micro spacing mistake means you lose a stock?

[@soulcleaner3578]

Hungryboxs games are all so fun to watch. Its interesting to see how he plays.

[@ItsPooly]

The commentators saying it doesn't work, but Hbox beat Armada for the first time in how long? It allows Hbox to control the pace and momentum of the game.

[@boosheroo4475]

I also think that he does it partially to fatigue his opponents hands. The laser spam can be bothersome after that long

[@Elyk91388]

Why doesn't Armada go on the offense more against him? Seems like yu are playing right into Jigglypuff's hands...

[@_akimamoto_6298]

I wonder if people realize these players are here to win the tournament and to win money and not to entertain them

[@Reimune]

They don't realize it, trust me.

[@TK-ev]

Commentators: If you are unable or unwilling to commentate a slower paced game, please get someone on the mic who can or leave us with silence. Your analysis was to be frank, rude asf to by far the two best players on the planet this year and the energy you bring (or don't) can shape the mentality of the viewers. Instead, try pointing out the more cerebral nuances and adjustments of set to show how their neutral and punishes evolve over time. The right commentary can make a long-winded set such as this one feel like less of a marathon.

[@Saltyoven]

rewatching old tourneys here, and I concur. Compare the commentary for this set vs. say the commentary for Hbox vs. Chudat at Dreamhack Austin GF.

[@tiphotisted]

This EVO is going to be interesting. M2K has his best record against Hbox this year around and I think over the last two years. Mango will be unpredictable as always and Armada is losing that invincibility cloak he's always had.

[@cp_M14]

Am I the only one who truly enjoy watching hbox ? He is SMART AF!

[@PickyMcCritical]

+F_Crp Mir And watch the dude's hands. Keeping up with Fox as Jigglypuff can't be as easy as he makes it look.

[@djsketch7208]

It's fun to watch the absolute highest level of play.

[@chrischan2555]

This is Genesis 2 all over again.

[@adamice2526]

just like evo rip CRT

[@thebigred94]

wobbles joke @30:30 lol

[@dfed324]

Hbox relapsing and hitting TVs again. LOL

[@sanderwojcik2049]

I'm just sad that this is what the 2 best players in the game playing each other looks like

[@MojoMonkey]

I actually find it very interesting. there is a lot to be said about stage control and direction of play, that gets overlooked because people only think about movement/neutral/punish

[@bbeastteengoxd1241]

How is this sad? It just shows how great they are. Both of these players are playing at the peak of their game and the matchup. Picture the best Jigglypuff vs. the best Fox. This is how it would look.

[@noahtwigg1885]

Sander Wojcik its the actuality of 20xx, where the punish game is so extreme that the neutral game is taken slowly so that a single mistake isn't made, lest you lose a stock

[@KingOfStrapFanboy922]

Yeah melee is dying for me because of sets like these

[@abcdefzhij]

...Except that this isn't the 2 best players in the game

[@NyctNyct]

YEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[@speedy_magee]

I like Wobbles

[@ilhuernult437]

Ideal to go to sleep

[@karlmagne]

Poop

[@TheAsgardTrickster]

This was one of the most boring matches I've ever seen. Also, I find it hilarious that people are all "ARMUDUH IS LAZOR CAMPING! HE SUXXXXX!" When Hungrybox is far campier than Armada. Seriously, count the re-grabs. And is everyone forgetting Hbox vs Chudat? Gods, watching Hbox play is so boring. Don't get me wrong, wobbling is boring af too, but at least we don't have an Icies consistently placing towards the top by being boring, thank god.

[@pro1lex304]

Li you must suck lol

[@jokkergar]

Mmmmm salt