Games Workshop Turned Me To A Life Of Crime

[@RoseKindred]

To prevent people "sailing the seas," increase the ease of access. If the models were available, and fairly, then there would be no need (generally) to print them.

[@RabtasticPaints]

Absolutely agree. I want to support the hobby. Let me buy the models I want.

[@eigokudemangaka]

And drop the prices to something reasonable. It's a wonder why GW won't make a bits box section of their website for just this purpose

[@RoseKindred]

@@eigokudemangaka Weird, the comment was removed. Anyways, they used to. I still have a catalog somewhere with the bit numbers. It was probably removed to streamline their warehouse. Not to mention the people who have to search for the bits.

[@3gnomes1bigcoat39]

I would definitely prefer to play with GW minis, but if the company doesn't want to support the game, the community will step up

[@RabtasticPaints]

That's how I feel. I'd absolutely buy Black Nums if they were available.

[@TheIronRyan]

If it's down to logistics on GW's part, I don't know why they don't outsource the manufacturing and storage. Especially with kits that are made of metal and can fit in a blister pack. I'm assuming the MESBG table top player base is a fair bit smaller than 40k and AoS, which would greatly support the made to order suggestion.

[@RabtasticPaints]

It's much much smaller at the moment. I'd accept made to order models over out of production, any day.

[@TheIronRyan]

@@RabtasticPaintseven with the Hobbit trilogy and rings of power, regardless of their faults, it is a shame that the table top didn't grow. Maybe if GW made a Warhammer quest or mordheim of sorts in the Tolkien universe? An unofficial but respectful lore so they could have some creative freedoms with new models, battles etc. If Amazon had a degree of creative freedom then maybe GW could as well.

[@RabtasticPaints]

The question is how much creative freedom to they have with the Tolkien IP? I think their hands are tied.

[@bombkangaroo]

​@@RabtasticPaintsThis is something I'm sure they could negotiate with the Tolkien estate. Osgiliath would be the perfect locale for something like this, since it's very self-contained, a known conflict from the established lore, but there's enough room there to invent a few minor characters and/or sub-factions, and potentially a lot of good reasons for existing factions to venture there and fight one another, depending on the time in which it's set. They already have terrain kits made for it too.

[@benjamineisenhofer8174]

F*ck that official BS, really. It makes me furious how this company made us believe that we need to gatekeep playing a game for their profit. These games used to be played with paper counters ffs.

[@RabtasticPaints]

Luckily, there are plenty of indie companies making games now.

[@davidlorenz1902]

GW should just rent out the 3d printing rights of discontinued models to several selected merchants. GW makes money, the shops make money and the players are happy. In the current state nobody takes a profit out of it because everyone uses proxies. Even regular models get proxied because of the age (like the last alliance box)

[@RabtasticPaints]

This would be a great idea. Certainly takes the pressure off their factory/warehouse.

[@joshcoles1255]

Personally I always try to buy GW models for my MESBG armies, I try to support the game and hope that me supporting it shows GW that the games worth supporting still. (Not sure just me makes that much of a difference 😂) Funnily enough the only models I do use 3D printed proxies for is Black Nums. It’s frustrating in general when stuff is out of production it doesn’t even give you the option to support them! In general though I can’t blame others for looking to proxies for their armies when a lot of the range is extremely old and OOP as well. I’m an elf player I have huge Mirkwood and Lothlorian armies but I can’t get into Rivendell yet just because I can’t stand the troop model options being extremely old imo horrible options missing shields for the swords etc as well and half being old plastic and then the others old metals or finecast recasts. I’ll hold off and wait till we perhaps one day get a Forgeworld set or in a perfect world a plastic box (highly doubtful) of High elf warriors. I have riv knights and the new heroes which have just come out but it’s all waiting until GW finally give us something but I can understand if someone like myself wanted to just get 3D printed proxies so they can play that army with models that look a bit more up to date. Overall I just hope GW support the game enough that people don’t have to turn to 3D printed stuff in order to play the armies they love! Feel like I wrote a novel here 😂

[@RabtasticPaints]

I can't argue with any of that. I'll happily give GW my money for the models I want. Black Nums, Morgul Stalkers and Orc Trackers are my biggest bugbear 😂 I know a lot of people are waiting for plastic or updated Elves, and I'll probably build an elf army when that day comes too!

[@sparrowd4712]

Yeah mesbg is interesting when it comes to this conversation. So many models are OOP or totally not available, and when you have players and tournaments that play WISYWIG rules... that increases the cost for alot of players because if you wanted a nonstandard model with slightly different equipment, that might mean buying multiples of a model that doesn't really exist in order to kitbash, which can make the problem about affordability and people playing the game even worse! I like that there's so much support for 3D print proxies in mesbg. I'd like it more if that support came from GW, but until it does I'll buy a 3D print online before I give £50 to someone on ebay for 3 standard unit models.

[@RabtasticPaints]

It's crazy, right!? I want an Orc Captain on Warg. A legal unit in the game. GW do not sell this unit. So I have to buy 2 Captains (mounted and foot) but they only come in a command pack, plus the warg, which is in a pack of 6... £87.50 to make this unit.

[@darthkek1953]

EBay is chock full of people selling what they don't need from boxes. Successful so, but it is a bit of hassle.

[@TheChaosCultist]

i really wish Gw cared enough about the game to actually look at mesbg lines and say hey theres entire factions that dont have any in production models.

[@RabtasticPaints]

It's crazy. And all they'd do is make more money!

[@JMACCSArmiesOfMiddleEarth]

Hard call innit. Ill always go GW if I can but if not avalaible happy to go elsewhere

[@RabtasticPaints]

I have no issue buying GW products, and I'll probably buy them over 3D Printing when possible. But if they won't sell me them... 😂

[@DeusMachina71]

3d printing is not theft.. for one thing, there are many miniature agnostic games like Kings of War, everything from Ospery, and on and on. GW did not invent miniature games, GW is not "The Hobby" we the players are, its a parasite on the hobby community, and even when playing their games you don't owe it to them to buy their models unless you are playing in a GW sanctioned game. There is no such thing as the GW gestapo that's coming to your house unless you count the GW legal department, but that's a different issue generally concerning the IP and not private home games. I kicked GW completely to the curb and buy very little from them at this point. I'm generally an Oldhammer, Kings of War and frostgrave player, I will 3d print as well as use 3rd party miniatures for the majority of my miniatures these days and since I don't care about store or tournament play whatever GW and its fanbots say means literally squat to me 😂

[@RabtasticPaints]

I'm no GW fanboy, but if they make the best models available, then I'll buy them.

[@DeusMachina71]

@@RabtasticPaints I didn't suggest that you personally are a GW fanbot simply there are a lot of them that like to rant against 3d printing "ruining the hobby" as if GW was "the hobby", its not, its simply one company among many that caters to hobbiests even if it's the largest in the group of commercial companies. I personally actually much prefer 3d printing over GW kits on multiple fronts. Firstly there is price, after my initial investment into 3d printing it becomes extremely inexpensive in relation to GW retail prices, secondly 3d printing has come a long long way in a very short time and the quality of some of these 3d stl artists is incredible at this point, thirdly I can control the scale of my miniatures when I'm printing them, being a primarily Oldhammer and KoW player I much prefer a 28mm scale on square bases and I am not interested in the 32mm heroic size of the current GW releases, nor am I a fan of all the kinda gaudy sculpts they release these days with the spindly easily breakable plastic parts. If my 3d printed resin model breaks it's not a big deal because printing another is easy and cheap and I kinda like a simpler cleaner model that's quick and fast to paint in units. I've been playing Warhammer Fantasy since literally 3d edition and 40k since Rogue Trader, its a pity but I'm not a fan of the company at this point and chose to spend my hobby dollars elsewhere and reward indie companies and creators that I think are adding value to the hobby and not just a huge corporation that only has the investors bottom line in mind when its creates products that feels like you're on a production cycle hamster wheel.

[@dicedrinksanddadjokes]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a tourney in NZ where they haven’t allowed proxies. Proxy away mate!

[@RabtasticPaints]

I've never seen it enforced, but it's in the tournament rules as standard.

[@PaintsOnA4Up]

I’m glad you don’t care if I’ve got 3D printed models ;) my new Iron Hills army is gonna beat you next time :p haha

[@RabtasticPaints]

If you turn up with 5 chariots, I'm calling a TO over to check them 😂

[@PaintsOnA4Up]

@@RabtasticPaints how about 5 chariots, but I’ve got a 6th in my bag, fully painted, just for you? ;)

[@RabtasticPaints]

@@PaintsOnA4Up now we're talking 😂

[@WarmongerForge]

Why doesnt GW.just have their own 3d printer in store, where folk can/would pay for print on demand products like the oop models, or for specific parts, means no ones stealin the IP because you are printing at their store

[@RabtasticPaints]

That would actually be genius. I assume that training their staff to use 3D printers would cause them to say "no"

[@WarmongerForge]

@@RabtasticPaints probably, but it would the most simple way to deal with the problem...and make them more profit.

[@RabtasticPaints]

Printing models AND money.

[@WarmongerForge]

@@RabtasticPaints and that would make everyone a winner! And would save on mail order, imagine just going to your local store, ordering a print and collecting at the same store without the week long waits of mail order ( should note i dont have a 3d printer, so therefore unsure of print times etc, but you get my point)

[@RabtasticPaints]

@WarmongerForge for a 25mm/32mm mini, it's only a couple of hours. And I couldn't see GW complain about more foot traffic in store. You go in to pick up your 3D printed model, you're likely to buy a paint pot or two...

[@USALibertarian]

"Artistic integrity" huh? Well when GW isn't even crediting their artists anymore....fuck 'em???

[@kaoticmachine]

Theres simple solutions. 3d printed outside official gw should be allowed but with caveats. 3d printed armies should be painted, fully painted. That way you stop people printing to win and means they have to spend time. I'm not talking minimum 3 colours I'm talking fully painted model and no trying to get around it by saying a normal model is a ghost or some rubbish. 3d printing is great to help expensive armies and missing models. But the 3d prints should not be exact copies of gw. 3d printing is never going to destroy gw, it just isn't as good as having models that last. 3d printed resin models will have a significantly shorter life span, be it cracking, breaking warping, gw plastic is just superior. This whole issue with 3d printing only comes up because gw are greedy and people can't make things unique enough. Too much copying happens which brings the gw legal team out their holes. 3d prints going to official gw is a no no. If you want to go to official then you should have 100% gw or greenstuff made things. Support the company. Outside that have at it, they can't limit your hobby and make you use their models and shouldn't, there's enough 40k players to keep gw happy. Just use 3d printing appropriately, use to fill gaps in model lines or to have some extra poses or bits. Buying gw product helps to keep the game going and if you have to sacrifice £30 for some character that looks awesome but shows we still want the game then swallow that negativity and get it.

[@garfieldwithissuez]

Look I don't really care what other people do but I do need to clarify one thing that you are functionally at around 2 minutes and 40 seconds into your video you made a statement that essentially breaks down to claiming that it is wrong for someone to clone a Games Workshop miniature for 3D printing. And that's really not right because at the end of the day unless they have hacked Games Workshop and stolen the actual official Games Workshop files for that model and then 32 with those it's not a copy, if I design a 3D model of a Lucius pattern Wareham Titan or if I take some images of a particular Gandalf model that they made in the early 2000s that is out of print, or if I take promotional images for the next newest coolest Space Marine model that isn't even out yet and I design a model that looks like that and then push that out to the community for 3D printing that is my design I may have been inspired by Games workshop's IP it's arguable whether or not I'm entitled to sell that design or not a lot of modern case law would actually indicate that I might be able to but regardless of how accurate my copy is it does not change the fact that unless I committed criminal theft install their files that it is not the same model

[@RabtasticPaints]

That's plenty.

[@Keleris12]

Another thing is that GW wants you to buy 2 minis to make 1 just becasue they dont produce this kind of model. For example you need 2 models to make some mounted version. This is is not fair at all, to make me waste goood models, just because they dont make their own stuff. GW is so outdated with their bussiness model. Why they can't sell mobile version of app with rules? Money left on street, but they will cry about some dude printing a model they don't even produce.

[@RabtasticPaints]

It's part of the reason I hate running cavalry 😂 Having to bring backup infantry Unreal in 2024 that they don't have a decent working app for the biggest tabletop games on Earth.

[@Keleris12]

@@RabtasticPaints yea, I bet minimum 10k players would pay them 5$/monthly for good app.

[@princedetenebres]

I've come to the conclusion that the crime is that GW still has this license and they demonstrate time and again that they deserve neither our loyalty nor patronage; I want the game to thrive of course, but it has been in spite of not because of GW. Hopefully through some miracle they won't retain the license and we can have the divorce we all deserve. Short of it being picked up by WotC or something we can't do much worse.

[@RabtasticPaints]

New supplement this year, though. Let's see how that goes.

[@princedetenebres]

@@RabtasticPaints Totally, I share everyone's enthusiasm for it. But their announcement is another point against them, market it as 'MESBG in 2024' and then start with an announcement about a different game entirely nothing to do with MESBG apart from in the same property and then offer us some MTO of old stuff that was actually not that long unavailable (for some of it) without mentioning one effing single new thing? If they'd even put the subject or a teaser of the title or anything new in the article I wouldn't be so miffed but it was as plain a bait and switch as one could see between title and what they actually delivered. Hell I'd say they didn't even have to reveal that stuff, they could've made us work it out with a puzzle or something, or just a clue, something to engage us instead of after giving us fuck all for a year to turn around and give us THAT pile of crap as their 'hey guys get excited' announcement, I recognize I'm starting from a not too happy place with the company, but to get me/us excited is the easiest target, and they missed it completely. If the post had been 'can't tell you anything more than it's about a fallen kingdom of men and it's coming this year' -- I would have happily and excitedly shared in the fan discussion and friendly arguments about whether that's Arnor or Numenor or something wild, and it would've been fun. Instead I continue to think that they don't give two shits about us and are happy to milk us for our money if it's not too much of a bother for them. It's sad since the community is so great, I just wish we weren't all beholden to someone who seems to be so indifferent. Prove me wrong GW, I would LOVE to be wrong, no shame in it if it means you'll finally start treating us right :)

[@princedetenebres]

To be clear, they don't 'owe' me anything, but there're a lot of great games out there, and companies need to compete for our attention and money and the way they act does the opposite; why shouldn't I patronize other companies that are more responsive and less negligent?

[@RabtasticPaints]

I dunno... I kinda feel like they do owe the MESBG for being so loyal after years of nothing.

[@princedetenebres]

@@RabtasticPaints I mean, it's in everyone's interest, especially theirs. Hey GW, Shut up and take my money! But to take my money, you've got to actually put out that damned supplement and some new models.

[@christopherpeery7436]

If gw did a made to order for all oop models, i would gladly go bankrupt lol. But until then, i guess im also just a criminal for buying 3d prints on etsy

[@RabtasticPaints]

My thoughts exactly!

[@princedetenebres]

The real crime is that they've convinced you that that act on your part has anything to do with criminality. It's a wonderful trick to have convinced so many people that GW is 'the hobby' and if they don't get your money then you are a) betraying your hobby and b) a criminal; neither of which is even remotely true. How many years did the game languish with them only to be kept alive by the fans and players? GW is an albatross not the arbiter of what is criminal.

[@jj-icejoe6642]

It's toxic

[@RabtasticPaints]

That's definitely a downside to it. But with water-washable resin and safety equipment, you can mitigate most of those risks.

[@jj-icejoe6642]

@@RabtasticPaints I do this in my well-ventilated workshop at the bottom of the garden, so me and my family are protected from any toxic substances from this practice, and there are a lot of them. When I see that your 3D printer is right next to you, on your desk where you paint, I frankly fear for your health in the long term. Have you thought about your old age ?

[@RabtasticPaints]

I appreciate your thoughts. My printer has a built-in carbon filter. I do not run it whilst painting, I run it in my office with the windows open and door shut for ventilation. Any leftover resin is filtered back into the bottle and stored safely.

[@jj-icejoe6642]

@@RabtasticPaints Did you know that carbon filters ONLY retain the odour and don't filter out any toxic substances? Nevertheless, I'm pleased to read that you take fairly good precautions when you print.

[@dragonmares59110]

GW could easily sell 3d models, they could even sell custom 3d models like hero forge and directly 3d print/colro them. That they refuse to enter the 21st century is beyond me. The only reason they still exist is because people read the books now.

[@RabtasticPaints]

How great would it be to create your own customised model on the GW website then go collect it from your local store?

[@dragonmares59110]

@@RabtasticPaints It would be great, i am sure people would still paint over them to improve them too ! I am surprised by how much this kind of service is ignored by entertainement companies. Like MMOs for example, i am sure people would line up to be able to get a small figurine of their MMO character.

[@RabtasticPaints]

@dragonmares59110 Final Fantasy should definitely jump on this! They've been making figurines for years, why not your custom character from FF14?