GARDEN STATE - Fifteen Years On

[@sleeplessknight2260]

The biggest mark this movie has had on my life was still informing my entire musical taste.

[@inframeout]

It's still banger after banger!

[@davidmckesey7119]

Genius soundtrack

[@davidhughmiller]

Never cared for Coldplay but I do love Don’t Panic.

[@maskoolio5824]

Zero 7 are great, although I do skip the song from this film because I got sick of always hearing it in the years following.

[@Xsiondu]

Same

[@m0zartwithn0.pian04]

I saw this movie by chance with my mother and grandmother whilst killing time after a hurricane devastated our home. At the time there were no other bigger name films that we hadn’t already seen so we gave it a chance. I left the theater in awe at the emotional resonance within me where as my mom and grandma the later snoring fifteen minutes in weren’t quite struck by it. At the time I was on my 4th or 5th ssri to no avail and it struck me how someone could possibly portray the numbness I myself was feeling. I was also 12 and had a crush on Natalie Portman but that’s neither here nor there. To this day this is among my favorite films ever and whenever I get the chance, I wish people good luck exploring the infinite abyss.

[@brett84c]

Movie takes on a whole new meaning watching it now, nearly 2 decades later. Zach Braff really nailed it with this movie. It's subtle and real. Yeah, there's tons of corny, non-realistic moments but overall, it feels realistic and the most like a normal romance versus the typical Hollywood movie.

[@BobbyBundlez]

So sad they give 12 year olds ssris… such an American approach to mental health

[@legalfictionnaturalfact3969]

This movie held an uncanny resemblance to my life at the time. I was Portman and he was Braff. It was intensely moving, almost unbearably so back then. Ok, maybe a little bit now too. I admit it, but I don't know whether he would. Two roads diverged. I find these garden state critiques coming out in batches very strange. Almost like they are commissioned, syndicated. Is the new emotional propaganda campaign unfriendly to those who came of age in the last generation? That's always the case. The invisible hands keep pulling the strings. In so many ways, though it has its flaws as every movie does, this one stands out as something brave and different. It was unapologetically what braff wanted it to be. Good for him and good for us. It's available on a particular streaming service now, and maybe I will even dare to watch it again after all these years.

[@ITFNBiteBayKon]

I love everything about this film I love the Soundtrack I love the cast I love the story I love remembering how much I loved life in 2004

[@CheckeredFedora]

I love this video. Garden State is one of my favorite films. I find it to be tremendously comforting. Ultimately, it's a movie about being okay with feeling, living in the presence of difficult emotional experiences. I appreciate your discussion of the film's visual style. I think it complements the movie's message. I do disagree about a couple of your later points. I appreciated your breakdown about Andrew Largeman's (Braff's) seemingly unrealistic and potentially destructive coping strategies. In particular, quitting psychiatric medication cold turkey typically leads to a brief period of relief, followed by feeling even worse than before. I think it's worth noting, though, that Andrew is not rejecting therapy and medication as a whole. We learn in the film that he has been given a raw deal from a mental health treatment standpoint. First, if I'm remembering correctly, his father is his prescriber. This is grossly unethical and conflates his father's desire to fix or get rid of emotional experience rather than to deal with the experience, a message that we can plausibly extrapolate has been communicated to Andrew his whole life. Second, Andrew has been on the wrong medication, Lithium, and has been taking it at too high a dose since he was too young to be taking Lithium. Lithium is most commonly used to treat bipolar disorder, and there is no evidence in the film to suggest that this would be a reasonable diagnosis. It is also suggested that he is currently prescribed "Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa, and Depakote." This is too many SSRIs to be taking at once. This is articulated in some capacity when Andrew sees a different psychiatrist, the one with all the diplomas. So while on the surface Andrew's decision to quit the medications seems utterly irresponsible, and I do believe that it ultimately is, I think that a lot of people in his position would make the same decision. As a matter of fact, many people have, albeit for different reasons, abruptly quit their medications and discontinued therapy with less justification than Andrew. Andrew was done a disservice by mental health care, namely his father, and it makes sense that he would feel wronged, feel as though he needs to try something different. And that leads to my second point. Andrew equates therapy and medication with a "less authentic" way of experiencing life because, in his personal experience, it was. That doesn't mean that he will never end up in therapy or take medication again in the future. It just means that, in this moment, he's exploring options, albeit irresponsibly. That irresponsibility is part of what makes him relatable. I do wish, however, that the film grappled with the negative consequences of this perspective, because there are many. I don't think it's odd that he would quit medication, abandon routine, turn to drugs and alcohol, or attempt to establish a meaningful relationship at this particularly tumultuous and pivotal time in his life. It is a bit strange, as you say, that the film romanticizes this to the degree that it does, but his motivations were never unclear to me. I agree with a lot of what you said about Sam (Portman). Unfortunately, she is a plot point for Andrew. That said, I think I give her character a bit more credit. She does have depth and nuance, just not as much as she could. She is a counterpoint to Andrew's lifelong approach to emotional expression. She has qualities and difficulties and a family of her own. I would be nice if her character were fleshed out more, and if she had a place in the world of Garden State that was more uniquely hers as opposed to Andrew's. Ultimately, I think Garden State succeeds at what it sets out to do. It's a reminder that it's okay to have emotions, and that's what I find so comforting about it. It's a film about acceptance of one's past and present, and fumbling to figure out what acceptance means. I think that Andrew recognizes that what he's doing is erratic and possibly unhelpful. In the final scene, he admits the reality of his situation, his confusion, and his emotional experience - that he's not sure of anything, and that he doesn't know what he's doing. Being able to admit that is key to acceptance. It's humbling, yet empowering. It's what we strive for, even if it's difficult and uncomfortable. Maybe I'm just making excuses for a flawed film, but it remains a favorite of mine. Thanks for the video and thoughtful analysis of the movie! You did great work here.

[@inframeout]

Thanks for your articulate and well-reasoned reply :) A great summary of counterpoints and differing views on some of the stuff I covered.

[@doctorbees7638]

Absolutly, you did miss a huge point as well so I'll bring it up. Andrewe doesn't quit his drugs in a dangerous way. He takes the time to consult another third party doctor and from that scene the Doctor stands to lose if Andrew tells him he doesn't want the drugs and the he only suggests that the drugs may help Andrew. Implying that Andrew really didn't need the drugs but needed a loving environment, which is ultimately what Sam and her family represent. Sam is Andrews foil to begin with, and as he film goes on he gradually begins to accept that he can belong with a loving family. Not a sterile one that doesn't process affection the way he is clearly crying out for.

[@VerdeletVIII]

also, the film is meant to be about Andrew coping with feeling for what basically the first time. He doesn’t need to make good decisions, someone in his position likely wouldn’t. He would embrace the first person to show him genuine love and comfort. It does make sense.

[@cheeseburgerwalrus499]

I get a lot of hate from people for saying this movie is honestly in my top 3. Its nostalgia alone that gives it that rank, but this was THE movie to watch with your girlfriend back when I was in high school. The soundtrack of the movie became the soundtrack to my life. When you, and someone else, pressed play but somehow found yourselves focused less on the film and more on the moment and the persons around you, while watching it. The soundtrack playing out in the background was so fitting for the moment. It was almost perfect. Watching this movie made you feel more in love with whomever you watched it with at the time, or at least for me it did. It really gives a vibe of "life is short, enjoy what you have". It's lame, but here I am years later, still tearing up when the outro of this movie comes along. The soundtrack makes the movie, I think, but it's the soundtrack with the scenes that really hits on another level. Yes it's a cheesy romcom at the end of the day, but I don't find it comedic at all. I don't think it's meant to be comedic. Yea there's some small "jokes" thrown in randomly, but none of them are funny really. It's kind of self aware, and some of the jokes can only be defined as dark humor, but I really put the comedy aside when viewing it. It's literally a movie about a dude going from the lowest point in his life to finally being liberated. It's absolutely beautiful. In the end, it's a great movie. It's not perfect, in fact it's very flawed, but it hits deep for me. I will forever love this movie.

[@VerdeletVIII]

Favourite movie ever. Just finished rewatching. The ending always gets me.

[@brett84c]

So let go, let go, just jump in...

[@nickd320]

This movie is not “just okay”. This movie is a great work of art.

[@TheoBeats002]

Thank you! Someone had to say it!

[@oggarinc]

It's 2020 and I still think this movie is genius. It's been literally 15 years since I have first watched it and I still think it's probably of the best indie movies ever made.

[@siobhan5345]

This movie changed my life. I know too well the story and that abyss. The soundtrack was the chef's kiss.

[@mactastic144]

It’s genius. The whole entire movie is a metaphor for real life.

[@badofcheese]

Or a pretentious pile of vomit. I’m a cynic who hates this film as much as I love it.

[@spiltsoup947]

I dont think you know what metaphor means

[@timh2356]

It's actually the reverse.

[@brett84c]

It's about the most realistic movie I've seen. Sure, it has its corby moments, especially the end, but it feels the closest to real life romance than nearly every other rom com.

[@diggitydoo5836]

I see this movie once every eight years - in 2004 in a theater, in 2012 at my friend’s college dormitory, and two days ago in January 2020. When I watched it earlier this week, I noticed something that never occurred to me before: This film is quite juvenile. It’s simple. It’s beautiful, but it has a childishness that makes it unlikely to resonate with adults. For the past two decades I have been telling people that this is an amazing spectacular film and that they should watch it. But having just seen it, I realize it was the idea of Garden State, rather than the film itself, that I was in love with. It’s not the story or the character development or the meaning that gives this film its beauty. It’s the imagery, the soundtrack, and the fact that all of the main characters are young people. This film is a photograph. It’s about coming home after a long absence, feeling emotions after a long numbness, and meeting a young woman after a long period of isolation in the smoggy highways of Los Angeles. This film finds breathtaking beauty in a landscape many of us take for granted, our home neighborhoods. It looks at “home” from the perspective of arriving there for almost the first time. The Garden State itself is best known for being New York City’s trash dump, an industrial suburb full of parking lots like Miami but with not as bad weather. This film shows New Jersey as a place of deep green and gray rain and house parties in rooms with wooden walls and sunlight peeking through the morning after. Broken down into a series of photos and sounds, this film is a timeless work of art and beauty, even if its story and characters have not aged well. Natalie Portman’s performance may have been the prototype for a trope, but in 2004 that didn’t exist. Her character doesn’t develop because it doesn’t need to; this film takes place over a period of three days. Zach Braff’s character develops specifically in that he becomes more similar to Natalie Portman. Looking past the trope, Portman’s “thing” is that she is young and energetic. She’s not a MPDG in the manic sense - she doesn’t make reckless decisions putting herself in danger, she’s never even shown doing drugs - she’s just cheerful and in a good mood and likes to do low-level weird shit, and she shines some daylight into the darkness of Zach Braff’s character. Yes, they rush into a relationship too early, but so do the characters in literally every romantic comedy ever. The MPDG trope is definitely there when you watch this movie today, but it’s not as bad as, say, 500 Days of Summer. I think that despite having become a trope, and not changing between the beginning and end of the film, Portman’s character is still relatively realistic. The themes of the film also carry beauty and resonate with a lot of people: Coming home. Meeting long-lost family members and friends. Seeing how your hometown has changed. Finding out this one became a police officer, that one died, that one went off and became Sheldon Cooper, that one ended up in a blue collar job and will probably dig graves forever. The slow pacing of the film also contributes to its beauty. I still listen to songs from the soundtrack very often. The last time I listened to In The Waiting Line was probably less than a month ago. Life is constantly changing, and is full of subtle beauty that you don’t see unless you make an effort to look for it. Music can help you to slow down and appreciate that your own life is as beautiful as any film. At various times in my life, consciously or unconsciously, I have stopped to take in the beauty in my life as it is similar to the beauty in Garden State, especially when visiting my hometown, visiting relatives in other states, or just waking up early and walking around my house. This is what Natalie Portman means when she says in the film, “This song will change your life.” My life is different, because I saw Garden State as a teenager in 2004. The texture of my experiences and my taste in music are different. I see breathtaking beauty in rainy days where I might otherwise have just seen them as normal or annoying. I only listen to the Shins if it’s raining. I remember around 2009 my friend burned a Shins CD for me and I waited months for a rainy day to come so that I could listen to it. I showed this movie to my friend, the day before yesterday. At this moment it is on KZbin. Watching it now, I had moments where I thought: “This movie is actually kind of stupid.” I cringed a bit during the party scene. And I understand what people mean about Natalie Portman’s character. But the beauty is still there. It’s in the landscapes, the weather, the simplicity, and the pacing. The connections between the characters. Zach Braff seeing places and meeting people he hadn’t seen in many years. The rainstorm in the quarry. The melancholy mixed with hope. The importance of family. Where other films trying to be Garden State went wrong, I think, was that they were too outlandish. Garden State could be a bunch of boring scenes from real life. “Guy visits his hometown. Guy says hi to his dad. Guy asks people questions about what happened to everybody. Guy sits on a couch during a party. Guy visits a young woman in her home.” It’s the simplicity. It’s that all of the scenes in this film are normal things that can happen to everyone during the normal course of life. It’s a coming-of-age story. It takes average events and plays its soundtrack and it says: “Look. Life is beautiful.”

[@christiericardo3101]

I too have just watched this film after not having seen it for over a decade. The things that stood out to you stood out to me: Sam is kind of silly, and yeah -- it's generally not a good idea to drop all your medications without a doctor's supervision and embark on a brand new relationship while in the midst of a crisis. Though every situation is different, and we can't apply a one-person-fits all prescription to navigating life. In this instance, with Andrew's character, it was congruous to me that he would do the emotional, irresponsible thing. That's why it ends with him saying, "What do we do now?" They may be screwed, but the point is taking the risk, living life while you can because, what else is there? Also, I don't walk away with the impression that Sam is two-dimensional and only exists to aid Andrew's growth. The chronic lying, the epilepsy -- these things hint to deeper characterisation that we just didn't get the chance to explore in the scope of the movie. Because it was ultimately Andrew's story. And that's okay. The scene that makes this film for me is when Andrew and Sam are burying her dead hamster. It just comes up that Andrew is back in New Jersey for his mother's funeral, that she died recently, and that her death was tragic. Sam starts to cry, and Andrew's like, "Why are *you* crying?" That moment is so, so significant to me. It's one of those scenes that cross over into art because it is true and good and cathartic; and to explain it away would only cheapen it. That and when they're standing on the digger screaming into the infinite abyss: that approaches Greek level drama/comedy for me.

[@a_raw_bee]

Every 8 years, mate!

[@atticuspoet]

I love your response :)

[@manifestgtr]

Methinks your opening math is off by a factor of about 33%

[@rorynell4962]

I bet you put more effort into that comment than the last piece of work u had to do haha

[@Tomhyde098]

I just watched this movie for the first time tonight, and I’m 32. Without the baggage of nostalgia I’d say it was a pretty good movie. There were some silly parts but I had a few genuine laughs as well and I enjoyed it

[@luvair6765]

An interesting film to watch when your older than the characters. Just rewatched it at 31, I can imagine someone at this age watching it for the first time won't have as much of a connection with it. There is some type of sexual energy in the teens and twenties that was captured in the film. Can be hard to relate as we get older. Just throwing the idea out there.

[@Tomhyde098]

@@luvair6765 interesting. I watched Garden State six months ago and…I don’t remember anything about it. I remember an animal cemetery in her backyard but that’s about it. It didn’t stick with me at all

[@B_kinda]

The movie is messy on purpose. I hear what you’re saying though. I was 18 and saw this movie in the theater right after my mom passed. I didn’t know that was the main storyline (Braff’s character losing his mom) so when that unfolded the 3 friends I went to the movies with slowly all looked at me at the same time as if to see if I was gonna be okay lol. I had been dealing with depression for a long time before my mom passed and watching medication scenes? That was the first time I actually kinda laughed to myself because I could relate to a movie. I even grew up in the state next to New Jersey so I clearly felt the desire to get the hell out of suburbia while watching this at 18. The absurdity of watching the funeral scene resonated lol. My mom was pretty well know in the community for all the work she had done over the years for people in need. She was also in a wheelchair at that in time after suffering a stroke. She after decided to go off dialysis to pass away at home with family after being told she was no longer a candidate to receive a kidney. Fun times. I still remember walking into the church for her funeral. It was beyond awful and awkward with everyone staring at my sisters and I. A lady also decided to sing (impromptu!) and it sounded just like the scene from the movie. 🤦🏻‍♀️ I felt so guilty for having to hold back laughter because it seem insane. I kept thinking- omg my mom would think is so ridiculous.. The end where he decides he doesn’t need medicine at made me want to look up and see if Scientology bankrolled some of the film. The Manic Pixie Dream girl thing.. yeah. Would have loved a sister film all about her character. I think it’s a bit lazy to always say that type of character is their just to serve the purpose of building up the man or main character. If you look at the film with that mind frame - that’s what you’ll see. I saw more of a strong lady who is going through some shit and is a bit immature because of how she was sheltered. I think that was an interesting way for her to play it. Both characters are fucking flawed. I’m a big fan of Jack Kerouac. For the longest time I’ve heard how much a drunk he was and not the greatest to women. I hate that about him. Still I see the value in him as a writer. Anyway, I never liked the show Scrubs. Zach. I liked Natalie Portman a lot in V for Vendetta but I have a feeling I’m gonna watch a video that will tell me how that movie is also awful lol. Hindsight is 20/20. Where are my glasses - growing up sucks 👍🏼

[@inframeout]

Episode Notes; - I haven't seen either "Going With Style" or "Alex Inc" so can't comment on either of Braff's most recent cinematic/televisual efforts. - As cliche as it is in a "coffee shop listening" way, the soundtrack to this film is still wonderful (Frou Frou's "Let Go" always slapped and always will) - Sickness is also a prevailing theme throughout (Andrew, Sam, Andrew's mother, indifference as a social sickness etc). I cut that whole thing for time, but it's an interesting thought. - Look out for the alligator symbolism on the TV in two instances.

[@Kirkvanhouten55]

'Going in Style' was a pointless remake without any of the charm of the original. 'Alex, Inc.' was another middle of the road sitcom that seemed like a product of focus groups and creativity by committee

[@kariann226]

Alex, inc was freaking fantastic and hilarious and I cannot understand how it got canceled so fast! I wish someone would have picked it up,I was living the first season!!! So good! It's ashame!

[@inframeout]

@@kariann226 At least we have the Scrubs Podcast now

[@kariann226]

@@inframeout I listened to about 7 of them and then just couldn't do it anymore. I mean, Id rather listen to them interview guests rather than talk about each and every single episode. My god.

[@WritingOnGames]

YOU KNOW I THINK THIS IS GREAT SO HERE IS A COMMENT PURELY FOR ENGAGEMENT

[@inframeout]

TO DIRECTLY QUOTE ABRAHAM LINCOLN, "THANKS WRITING ON GAMES FOR WATCHING THIS INTERNET VIDEO"

[@charliemilroy6497]

You are the same person

[@bubblesandmangopudding]

Still, one of my fav movie to rewatch 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@DerekBoldiene360]

I just bought it because I like Zach Braff big time in Scrubs which I have been watching for almost over a month and I am almost done with the whole show.

[@BrothaJeff]

This film and sound track pulls be right back in time. To the mid 2000s. I just finished high school and felt all the feels from this film. I was meeting lots of new people and trying to find love.

[@txsailor82]

I love this movie and can’t live without its soundtrack. I’m a huge Natalie Portman fan so she introduced me to this gem.

[@norabloomb]

The Shins transitions 😭💕💕

[@luvair6765]

Easily one of my top 10 films. Growing up with depression and trying those medications it was easy to relate.

[@PaulAllen786]

Movie still relevant in 2022 as the mental health and drug aspect

[@kariann226]

PS not to mention Zach Braff is just plain brilliant and is ahmazing when it comes to music onto film....and his playlists are incredible!

[@jaywhite7333]

IKR

[@senecauk8363]

I'd question the idea that the film endorses drug and alcohol use- if anything, it critiques recreational drugs in the same way as medicinal ones. Largeman has no 'fun' on these substances, and just becomes more and more numb. Notice that during his explanation of his mother's death in front of the fire, he doesnt seem intoxicated. And later when he describes being mildly 'buzzed', we can take that to mean being happy around Sam rather than an actual effect of alcohol. Otherwise, great vid.

[@bmorebob6624]

Upon watching this again I’ve noticed some real cringe worthy moments that I did not notice in 2004. I think a lot of has to do with how much times have changed since then.

[@whysoserious652]

This is my 3rd most favorite movie of all-time after Terminator 2 And Revenge of the Sith..

[@osamudiamenamienghomwan8831]

Just saw this film. I enjoyed it but I could tell something was off. I'm in my 20's and I understand how important it is to learn at this stage that life is a mixture of beauty and disaster. Like his character says, during this period, you move away from home, but you also have to create your own. You'll need to build a new family. Sometimes, it's a found family with your group of friends. Sometimes, it's with a partner. I think the film really captures with sincerity and authenticity just how much of a transitory period it is, and how it's okay if you don't have everything figured out. That being said, I agree with the issues you listed. especially the one about mental health, because that was the first one that came up. He simply stops taking his meds and all is fine. I kept on waiting for that point to be brought up again but like you said, the film's anecdotal/episodic nature works against it. And don't get me started on Sam. PS: Discovered your channel last year after I saw the Black Christmas remake and was looking for video essays on YT. Been subscribed ever since. Seen and liked virtually all your videos at this point. Keep up the fantastic work!

[@themoley91]

Garden State isn’t as good as everyone said it was when it came out, BUT it’s nowhere near as bad as it became cool to say it was about 10 years later. It’s no longer one of my favourite movies (though I still think it’s good) but will always be close to my heart because - like for probably a lot of people around my and your age - the movie that made me get into movies beyond Hollywood blockbusters and see that film could be more powerful than that. Now I work in the business, and next week I’m actually off to Sundance for the first time, a dream since I was that 14 year old kid who loved Garden State because I knew it and a lot of the other movies of the time that I loved premiered there. I hate that I feel like I can’t tell anyone in the business this was my “gateway film” because of how much time film hipsters have spent shitting on it over the last decade. Also, I’ve never liked how people write Sam off as “manic pixie dream girl number one”. As a girl at the time, I wanted to be like her, and not to get a cute sensitive indie guy, but because I liked how she seemed to live her life despite her challenges (though agree now that she could have been fleshed out a lot more). Anyway, thanks for the nuanced look at the movie. Been thinking about it a lot because of going to Sundance and I’m glad the dialogue around it is becoming more balanced again.

[@rvalle11]

hey friend i apologize for the out of nowhere question but its worth a try. I am currently finishing up a film production degree and am just wondering if you have any tips to where or what i should look for as a way into the industry. Any tips appreciated, or a description of how you went after it. It totally makes me feel more confident hearing stories.

[@Cotictimmy]

Still one of my favourite movies. Will return to it again & again. This review? Probably not.

[@MrTomfooligans]

This is a great look at the film. I've been thinking about making something like this to address it because, for a movie everyone has seen and has a strong opinion on, there isn't very much content in this era of video essays addressing it. Thanks for your thoughtful contribution.

[@manifestgtr]

I don’t understand how Sam’s role in the film is reductionist or how she exists as a device. I know that, on the surface, that seems to be the “right thing to say” in 2020 but it’s not exactly true. First of all, Largeman is the protagonist. The people around him aren’t going to be fleshed out *quite* as fully from our perspective...it’s just the nature of such films. Secondly, isn’t it obvious that he’s kind of a matching puzzle piece in her world as well? A nonjudgmental island of relative calm amidst a sea of chaos? Trust me, I’m not saying that garden state is a perfect movie. That’s not the case...there are some issues with it in my opinion. But I actually found its vignette-oriented style refreshing at the time. Life isn’t a perfect character arc. It’s mostly just a series of moments with the common thread of family and friends holding things together. I think this movie did a pretty good job at representing that and while, yeah...that doesn’t always make for a tight narrative, it’s still very relatable.

[@moosecannibal8224]

I'll say this, I don't think Garden State tries to condone using drugs and alcohol (as well as to abandon your medication ect.) to fix your issues, I think it more asks you to forgive yourself for not adhering to the opposite 100% Zach's character isn't super into taking the drugs and alcohol, but he does slightly at the start of the film, and it ends up allowing him to fit into the social situations easier. (bad thing, good outcome, therefore it's saying "yo, it's okay to do this sometimes) As for the medication, part of the story is that he was medicated at a young age, never had the chance to be unmedicated since, and decided himself to try and see if he was any better without it while he was in his home town. In a sense he forgave himself for not taking his medication very quickly, to the point where it's not even brought up for most of the movie, which goes to prove once again that he didn't need the medication. The movies is not condoning the denial of medication as it's letting us know that this man was very possibly misdiagnosed by his emotionally distant and confused father. The father who is depicted as a therapist, therefore someone who usually sees themselves as more informed about mental health than the average person and may not realise that they're misdiagnosing someone if they're also emotionally involved with the patient and just want to "make everyone happy again" as his father did. Idk, I have literally finished the movie (like 4th time watching total) like ten minutes ago and had this video set up after to watch and I just noticed a few counterpoints to your argument. Film techniques are great and all but I feel like the real gold in Garden State is in the dialogue, and is more about what isn't said but merely shown to us, and we have to realise (based off our encounters with real life) what the truth is. And personally, the truth is that Garden State is entirely about learning to forgive yourself, or even better yet, learning that you forgave yourself a long time ago and that maybe you need to cut yourself some slack and allow yourself to be a human being more than you should allow yourself to be a happy being... Since no one's happy 24/7, we all lash out as kids and do dumb things, we all mess up our medication sometimes when we have it, we all have the capability to become distant with our families and we all are.... Just not perfect, but that just feels a bit cliche on it's own.

[@moosecannibal8224]

100% agree though that Natalie Portman's character could have easily just been a friend and the same effect would have been put across, the romance was hardly needed to complete the point of the film.

[@moosecannibal8224]

Also, idk if it's known, but a lot of people struggle with feeling numb on emotionally suppressant medication, as it does exactly that... Suppresses emotions, causing you to feel distant and numb to everyone. idk man I just feel like a lot of your points could be argued against very easily. Still like the content and giving you a thumbs up though.

[@inframeout]

Thanks for watching, and I respect and totally appreciate where we differ in our opinions. It's still a film we're watching and talking about after all these years, and nothing I say is gospel fact. May we long have our own thoughts and feelings with art, and continue to share how we differ as well as how we agree :)

[@charliemilroy6497]

This movie was all about one guy. The other characters only exist is relation to him, so it's not sexist to not develop the character of the love interest

[@manifestgtr]

Charlie Milroy My thoughts exactly. Andrew is the protagonist of the movie. His feelings about people are the filter through which the story is told. That’s what a protagonist is. Aside from him, who’s more fully fleshed out than Sam? I don’t think people really stop to consider these things as much anymore. They hear someone say “Sam is a blah blah trope. It’s very sexist” and just automatically agree because that’s what you’re supposed to do, regardless of how well such ideas hold up to scrutiny.

[@ravendunn7595]

Making me think about the older movies i used to watch Man you are a whole new level of interesting

[@inframeout]

Thanks for reaching out with your kind words :) Part of the joy of these trips down memory lane are all the things you notice with the fresh eyes of hindsight

[@patdowds4178]

Fun fact- The sidecar motorcycle used in the movie is a Ukrainian made KMZ Dnepr MT-11. The same model was used in the motorcycle chase scene in The Last Crusade with Harrison Ford and Sean Connery.

[@celestemacleodbrown]

i agree with what you sad and yet i still absolutely adore this film

[@inframeout]

Oh absolutely! There's nothing wrong with holding a deep personal and emotion connection with a piece of art, while still acknowledging it's flaws

[@celestemacleodbrown]

just realised my typo there whoops, yeh i think the wonderful soundtrack and cinematography probably help haha

[@ZacFrazier]

I'll always be a little embarrassed that this is one of the first movies that I resonated with when I was a teenager, I even made a short film for a class that I realize now was pretty heavily inspired by it (tho sans the use of a woman character as a tool for recovery and a dismissal of prescription drugs). But that scene in the bathtub just fucking gets to me, even if the sentiment realistically is a bit early on in their relationship

[@taylor7837]

Garden State 2: Gardener State, dir. Zac Frazier

[@inframeout]

Oh absolutely, for any number of people in our age demographic this film was extremely formative (for better and absolutely for worse if you've seen any of the slew of indie run off in it's wake). My first few forays of film school self importance were terrible shorts that cribbed so heavily from the school of 'Garden State' they may as well have been called "Greenhouse County". All that being said, the way Braff delivers the "Shitty latch" speech to his dad is far and away the best writing and acting of his career

[@diggitydoo5836]

I would watch “Greenhouse County.”

[@ario0521]

This is really sharp and should have more views.

[@inframeout]

Thanks so much for checking out our video, and for reaching out with such kind words

[@ALBUMOF2008]

This film had me sobbing lmao

[@sarahguzy3652]

As a 14/yo oddball this film was the only outlet for me to relate to

[@inframeout]

I felt exactly the same at the time

[@somesortofgeek]

Fun fact but Danny Devito actually was an Executive Producer in this I thought that was pretty cool

[@Cinemaphile7783]

DD is from Jersey... Fun fact 😊

[@taylor7837]

I received this film for my tenth birthday shortly after its home release. As a kid the film was incredibly important to me on a personal level. It was one of the first pieces of media I consumed that directly tackled mental health, however poorly, and that resonated with me as someone who had already been struggling with their mental health for a number of years. I have since come to similar conclusions as you on the film. The characterization is grating and often misogynistic, the actions of the main character immature even by 2000s nihilist standards, but the film still retains some of the charm from the first viewing. The visual gags in the film are great (the sweater that matches the wallpaper, the reveal shot of the gas pump still stuck in the car door after driving away), the dialogue often resides in a passively edgy space that is very of its time, and the general vibe of the film still connects with me on some level, but the holes in its framework become more apparent with each viewing. Your videos are always enjoyable, and I hope they start getting more traction, keep up the great work!

[@inframeout]

As always, I am in total agreement. I'm so sorry you had to process and experience those emotional and mental concerns from such an early age, but am incredibly glad that you're here with us all and that you found a kinship with this film. I too felt - as cliche as it may seem - like this film was directly speaking to me when it was initially released. The idea that sadness and seemingly inescapable anxiety didn't have to define the day to day, and also had an ebb and flow rather than an on and off switch was so important at such an impressionable age. What I set out to communicate with this video was our opinions aren't and never should be binary. There's so much nuance to these discussions, even before getting into our extremely valuable personal connections with the material (or personal grievances). It's all valid. As art grows in esteem or wilts under the light of scrutiny, we also grow as humans. With that our thoughts take on a malleability that is able to parse both pros and cons while still either liking or disliking the work as a whole. In the end, it's all just colours, shapes and sound. We do the heavy lifting to make it mean something

[@inframeout]

Jeez, I didn't realize that reply was going to be the size of an bus terminal haha

[@johni-db4xv]

Regarding the comment of Andrew doing everything wrong mental health-wise. People self-medicating with drugs, alcohol and escapism is the most realistic and relatable thing about this film.

[@jackmiller3725]

Just wanted to say your Channel is awesome, no matter how big or small it is. But i‘m sure you‘ll grow a lot. Thanks for the amazing content!

[@inframeout]

Glad you enjoy it! Thanks so much for the kind comment, and hope you enjoy the rest of our stuff

[@Smilingpolitely553]

I really like this review overall but I find a couple of the criticisms of the film ignore the nuance of what actually happened. As for the dealing with mental health aspect they made it pretty clear that his father put him on medication as a child after the accidental death of his mother that he was blamed for. It seemed to me there was a strong suggestion that his father had decided to medicate his son without a proper diagnosis, and that Andrew was finally realizing that maybe there was no underlying mental illness and that the drugs were doing more harm than good in that context. As for the Sam is just a vehicle for Andrew's redemption I'd first say that the device of using characters around the protagonist to forward their development is not exactly uncommon or a crime. Secondly I found that a lot was revealed about Sam's character that really had nothing to do with Andrew's progress. Namely that she had seizures that required her to wear a "helmet" to work and prevented her from following her passion for dance and that she had to live with her mom and that those life experiences caused her to live in the moment and not take life too seriously. She definitely has her own problems. Another film 500 Days of Summer gets credited for subverting the MPDG trope, but I wonder how differently Garden State would be viewed if Sam ultimately decided not to be with Andrew at the end. Is it problematic that her character chose to love a flawed man? It seems to me to hardly be a problem and is more about virtue signaling and cooking up a spicy take than about actual sexism. I will say that there should be more movies made with a female protagonist, and one would expect the male love interest(s) to be less fully fleshed out. And that's totally okay. To be honest I'd be surprised if many of those movies would even suggest that a man could help further a woman's journey at this time.

[@Shaunks86]

I'm so confused. Was this story supposed to be told from Sam's perspective or Andrew's? I could've sworn it was Andrew's. Why does everyone bring up Sam like it was her story being told.

[@Cinemaphile7783]

It's absolutely from Andrew's POV

[@jumpanama]

I'm sick of people criticizing Sam as a plot device. The story is about Andrew, so EVERY OTHER CHARACTER is a plot device to advance Sam's story. It would be no different if the character was a guy that introduced him to a carefree life platonically, or a dog that got him to be happy. The point is she breaks up his depressive state by being there and being different. That doesn't somehow demean women or whatever bullshit feminists think, it's just a plot device. Anyways, great critique. I loved the use of The Shins songs as chapters.

[@MasterCoachUniversity]

i wonder if the filmmaker wanted things to be shallow and singular focused because that was the main character and that most human life is myopic and self-referential.

[@a_raw_bee]

This is an incredibly thoughtful review. This movie came out when I was in high school, and informed a lot of my relationship to... relationships and feelings. But I did have hangups about the banality of Sam's character and how horribly the Bechdel test was failed though at the time lacked the vocabulary to describe this. I appreciate how many dimensions are considered here

[@inframeout]

We're incredibly glad to have been of some small service :) Thanks so much for checking out our little channel

[@EJD339]

This is a movie that was so important to me but I’ve outgrown. You probably shouldn’t be relating to this movie at the age 30 haha. I’m so thankful for this movie because it helped me grow and played an important role in my life.

[@inframeout]

Couldn't agree more

[@DOSkywalkR]

I also agree. I'll give it another shot sometime, but last time I watched it it felt pretty juvenile and not very nuanced - before that it was one of my favourite movies since I saw it in my early 20's (currently 36) and along with Lost In Translation before it sent me on a path to more serious, thoughtful movies. For that and also giving me lots of feels I'll forever be thankful, but the nostalgia indeed has worn off (fortunately that's not the case with Lost In Translation).

[@EJD339]

@@DOSkywalkR I literally have the same feelings haha. Lost in translation is still wonderful. Something about that film just puts me in a mood.

[@brett84c]

After trying medications for over a decade, I don't think the movie is trying to tell people with legit mental illness to stop taking meds, but you can't deny there's a lot of people who jump to meds when there's nothing physically wrong with them and they just need to learn how to adapt and grow. I'll never tell people to just stop taking their meds, but if people tell me they're tired of meds and how hollow they make them feel, I'm not gonna argue with them when they say they want to stop. You know what's really going on in your heart. If you gotta make a change, make it.

[@lutello3012]

I don't think I should have been put on antidepressants to begin with but I'm afraid I'm hooked. You sure as hell can't go cold turkey like that, the movie is comically unrealistic. I was finally off them for 9 months but started getting panic attacks I never had before them. Maybe I can still do it but not at this point.

[@michaelchoueiri5000]

I respectfully disagree

[@inframeout]

That's more than fair :)

[@pauls6416]

Excellent review

[@forestrot666]

Just watched this film a week ago,after at least my entire 20s (I might have fell asleep after work during a late night viewing). I watched it from start to film. Originally saw it when it came out,and it was somehow relevant then at 14 years old. Watching it at 29 though, I cried at parts but also realized how different the times are and the awkward sexism did not fully compute to me. STILL love Zac Braff all the days. Also love Natalie,but they could have definitely developed her character in a much more deep way. That I agree with for sure.

[@inframeout]

He seems like a genuinely decent gent. I really do need to listen to his new podcast

[@samuelspencer1932]

@@inframeout His new podcast is pretty good, I enjoy it because I'm a huge fan of Scrubs but there's quite a few tangents that I think a lot of people would enjoy. It's fun.

[@inframeout]

I'm actually listening to it right now!

[@samuelspencer1932]

@@inframeout Haha coincidence!

[@DOSkywalkR]

@@inframeout I'm also listening to the podcast currently, at season 2. I always liked Braff and also the fact that he actually became best friends with Donald Faison (Turk), so this podcast really is a blessing in that sense. I still have to say that as nice as Braff comes along, he also often seems quite full of himself as well as condescending and judgmental :/

[@joshmesker]

This was quite good until one of the key points of the film-making mistakes along the way to self-discovery-was either missed or ignored, hence the harsh criticism of “the message.”

[@thedudeabides3930]

It holds up. It's Say Anything for Millenials.

[@cicolasnage5684]

Not for me pal.

[@arieldacruz2044]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

[@avileximacdaddymemes]

The only reason I like this movies is because how pretty and kind Sam is

[@christyincognito]

It's my Favorite Movie!! It's hilarious! It's sooo a 'you have to get it' movie!! Dry humour is my fav!! I wish they could do a new one like where they are now in life!! 💕

[@ryancasey919]

The first millennials were a weird group of artsy weirdos. It was a good time but I’m glad the time has passed.

[@CherieTalksTunes]

Cherished movie!!!!

[@FIDEL_CASHFLOW_]

Thank you!! I thought the film was entertaining but pushed a lot of unhealthy ideas about mental health and coping mechanisms. However, everyone I attempted to have a discussion with about it held it up on such a pedestal, considering it the paradigm of indie film making to the point that no rational discussion could be had. I didn't really have a problem with the drug scenes because they portrayed Andrew as still being detached and aloof while doing the drugs. This aligns with my experiences with various substances; the mood that you are in before indulging determines how you feel while drunk/high/in a k hole. Andrew doesn't feel any better while high and wakes up feeling just as shitty as before which is true to life. The dynamics between Sam and Andrew are what I take exception to. Andrew is still clearly emotionally broken by the end of the film and Sam has a litany of issues herself, yet Braff decided that it would be best to show these two fundamentally troubled young adults get together to solve their problems. Diving headfirst into a relationship while you're resolving deep mental trauma is a terrible idea. It's even worse when it's with another person who needs professional mental health herself. Doing so over a few day period before you have to fly back to the other side of the country is a recipe for heartbreak. Imo, a better ending would be them saying their tearful goodbyes and Sam begging him to stay so they could be together and Andrew admitting he cares for her deeply but he isn't ready for a relationship because he has to work on himself. A year later Andrew is shown doing better in LA with some more small acting gigs, enough to sustain himself but he hasn't hit it big yet. He's mended the relationship with his father and he now bikes to work. He receives a letter from Sam saying that she has gotten her compulsive lying under control with therapy and medication, and has taken up volunteering as a way to make new friends and give back to others. Andrew reads it with a smile on his face and pulls out a piece of paper and envelope to write back to her. Cut to black. Overall, I'd give the film a 8/10 for entertainment value but a 3.5/10 for healthy portrayal of its sensitive subject matter. The film had a real chance to say something meaningful about depression, life changes in your 20s, and mental health but it missed the mark because of its portrayal of Sam and Andrews relationship.

[@Falllll]

While that might be a better ending in terms of how healthy it would be for each of them, the movie doesn’t have to match up with the perfect choices for them each to be making. Can you imagine how terrible films would be if everyone actually made the most mature and sane choices for themselves all the time?

[@FIDEL_CASHFLOW_]

@@Falllll But dealing with such a sensitive topic that so many struggle with, I feel like film makers have a responsibility to portray healthy ways to overcome those issues instead of projecting dangerous misconceptions about said issues.

[@luvair6765]

Relationships are meant to teach us things about ourselves they are not always meant to last forever. They are in their early 20s still experience ragging hormones of course it doesn't always need to make sense or be the best decision.

[@AI-mg3hy]

I think I agree, this is an ok film. Damn I love a lot of moments in this thing. Every moment with Natalie Portman's mom and brother is like a hug, the aunt singing Lionel Richie is touching and poignant while bordering on comical, the hardware store is just funny, even Pre-Sheldon Sheldon is funnier than regular Sheldon ever was. But I don't think the ending is honest. Is it real happiness at the end? For a filmmaker who clearly counts The Graduate among his influences, Braff seems to be among those who didn't quite get what that ending meant for the happy couple. I think Garden State works up until the end as a study of a character on the upward swing of a manic episode. Making spontaneous rash decisions, deciding you don't need your meds because you feel better but molly is ok, being able to talk to all these people all of a sudden even though you've been a shut-in for months, entering into a relationship way too fast because everything feels so good about it. All of that is there, even the ending would work because it rings true as an action someone like that would take. But that shouldn't be the end. There will be a crash. That's the sequel I want. Or at least the future I wanted him to hint at. I just want the end to feel as honest as the rest of it. I'm interested in your take on how he handled mental illness. Do you think films have a cultural responsibility to depict best practices when it comes to this subject?

[@stuartboxall7297]

Your looking far too deeply into this my friend. Just enjoy this beautiful movie for what it is, a beautiful feel good movie.

[@luvair6765]

Man this review really missed the mark. It falls to the common trobe of not making a point but just repeating the words of the people who nit pick the movie or just hate on it because it was 'that' film. It was that film, the best romantic comedy out of the 2000s. It is a shame the marketing campaign of the naysayers took hold of the dialogue surrounding this movie and inflected it's ideas into the dialogue surrounding the film. The topics brought up; growing up, numbness, mental health and love was touched on in such a nuanced way back then. This was 2004 no other movies were coming close to this and boom Zach Braff directorial debut was a knock out of the park.

[@christopherzadnik7028]

It's a Joysey thing

[@SchulzEricT]

Anatomy of a Trope covered the term Manic Pixie Dream Girl (and how he hates it because he sees it misused more often than used properly) in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jaiqm6OGocykr9E If you haven't already checked it out, I highly recommend it. I think you'll like it; I think you may watch it and be a bit frustrated that you didn't make it, honestly.

[@SchulzEricT]

ALSO... You say it's an okay film. I have no opinion, but I would say that it's worth noting that there's a very important distinction to be made between a movie that is a "5" by being a 5 up and down, vs a movie that reaches a score of a 5 (this is on a scale of 0-10, obviously) by being a 3.5 or so throughout except for having a few elements that are an 8 or so. I'd rather watch the latter - a below average movie with a few great moments - than the former - an average movie that is average (ie boring) all the way through.

[@inframeout]

Yeah - in my mind an "okay" film is a three star experience. Lots to recommend, just as much to criticize and a few things that stand out for better or worse in interesting ways

[@SchulzEricT]

@@inframeout What, so are you saying what I talked about as the former is 2-star in your mind, whereas the latter is 3? (Whereas I'm using a 0-10 scale, you're using, presumably, 0-5 stars?)

[@inframeout]

Yep

[@nickbarton3191]

Much too hard on this ok film. My kids loved it. Of course, the big appeal is the music. I can see the problems too but they don't detract from the warmth, humour nor the central story. I thought the idea of getting the necklace back was a nice way to represent his gradual acceptance of himself. I did think the relationship with Sam was an excuse to kiss Natalie Portman, would have been much better fit for the story if it were just platonic. BTW medication to numbness sucks as a way to cope. Much better for mild cases something like REBT/CBT techniques and lifestyle changes.

[@q.c.key7044]

Classic, important and underrated film

[@foodietunes585]

Great technical review but I don't agree with your analysis or 1: how to deal with mental health issues, or 2: Your analysis of Sam.

[@ydoesgooglesuck1960]

I think people missed or felt underserved by the whole "My illness sucks, my coping mechanism of bubbliness is all I have" scene. I felt the manic pixie nonsense up until that scene, yes. But for me that scene kinda backfilled her story though only a bit. From there it was 2 sparrows in a hurricane, and I liked their adventure.

[@foxfire1112]

I wish I could agree with others that it's still great. It feels so dated and childish in a cringy way, and it feels very "indy" in a forced way. I loved Garden State when it released (i was 18) and I still love the soundtrack so much, but it's not a movie I really rewatch

[@KASC92]

The movie annoyed me because it felt like it romanticized depression and instead of giving Portman an interesting personality they just made her quirky and offbeat with no real defining characteristics other than existing to bring Braff's character out of his depression. The soundtrack is top tier though.

[@Cinemaphile7783]

You nailed it however even with the flaws I still love this movie. I have so much in common with Andrew it's scary.

[@ariescustom]

I thought this was utterly tedious. The film, not your video. 😂

[@tee-7307]

Can we please all admit that Zach Braff is not a great kisser? 😅 Seriously though, that final scene looked so lame! I enjoyed the movie though

[@inframeout]

Extremely harsh but also absolutely true

[@Kirkvanhouten55]

Obviously, there are exceptions, but being medicated IS a less authentic form of life. Feeling numb isn't being alive. Only somebody never medicated would say that definitively

[@inframeout]

As someone who has been medicated for the better half of a decade in various combinations of drugs, programmes and cognitive behavioral therapies, I understand what you're saying but would argue severe and irrational spikes in emotionally volatile brain chemistry that drastically exceeds normal parameters is less representative of a day-to-day existence (and certainly a more trying, punishing one) than being afforded a certain course correcting equilibrium. Of course it depends on dose, treatment and personal circumstance

[@toadsprout]

this is an old comment but im going to reply for anybody out there who may read it the right meds (prescribed by a doctor who listens and is knowledgeable) will *not* dampen your feelings or numb you, and a lot of newer antidepressants do not have nearly the same side effects as older ones, but do have the same or better efficacy.

[@DrPhil-kx3ci]

Everybody loves Raymond you know what I’m sayin

[@KolKay]

this movie is great but I honestly can't stand how corny the ending is

[@KolKay]

also I wish Zach Braff was into American Football so they could've made it on the soundtrack

[@inframeout]

"Never Meant" appearing on the soundtrack would have been peak teenage me. P.S. the new American Football record is lovely

[@ubahfly5409]

Omg yes! Literally ruined the entire film for me. I'll never forget the overwhelming wave of cringe that washed over the entire room as we all turned to eachother, mouths agape, before bursting into howling laughter w/ groans of disappointment & disbelief.

[@jennifertimlin1371]

Natalie Portman carries this movie. Without her it's dull and listless. The rest of the acting is just bad. Especially, Braff.

[@sandrostutz6143]

Didn't Portman study psychology?! How can she play in such a movie? damn...

[@I_Hate_Atom_Eve]

Sam has her own character we do learn about her struggles and problems idk how you're going to say we don't get to know her character throughout the film