Gaslighting the Bad Vegan

[@MsJoyChristine]

I’m currently having a moment of silence for your moments of silence. We’ll all let you know next time, Dr. Honda.

[@jackiesc4061]

I swear I never noticed and I listen to most everything. 🧐

[@kerriedbot9935]

Your comment made me laugh. 🤣 I listen to the episodes on at least 1.5x speed, usually 1.75 or 2x if I can understand the people speaking clearly enough, so I likely wouldnt notice the minute of silence. The fact that he traced it back six weeks was impressive lol

[@kimberlycoldren4237]

In your description of gaslighting, does Trump gaslight his followers? He can keep saying outrageous things and it no longer seems weird. Is QAnon his made up handler?

[@AirDNA1115]

I think my biggest problem with Sarma is how coherent she sounded when she would confront him on the calls about not having received her money yet, but then, during the interviews, she seemed incredibly dodgy. She never seemed meek toward him, and she had the courage to call him out on several occasions. Yet there she was saying she totally brought into everything. I believe that for the beginning, but after a certain point, it sounded really dubious. She raised all this money from investors and people she knew when she already understood that Anthony wouldn't pay anything back. Unfortunately, she doesn't seem like a very expressive person, so it was hard to tell if she felt any remorse for taking that money or screwing over her employees and their families :(

[@jackiesc4061]

Yes I noticed how she didn’t seem to have any concern for the employees or their families. Incredibly selfish

[@oliviannejb1318]

Only her dog!

[@thedudeabides5695]

Funny, I made the same comment earlier nearly word-for-word....(great minds think alike!) I made a career of detecting deception, and like you, I immediately noticed how she showed 2 VERY different personas in the film! In the camera interviews, she was meek, confused, and never answered a direct question. In the recorded calls, she was tough, smart, and clearly fed up with his BS. The contradiction is very telling! Also, in the phone calls, ALL she asked about was the money...not her dogs "immortality" or any of that Sci-Fi BS....interesting. And that final phone call? Laughing & joking? Chilling!

[@sarahserenity3872]

Yes, no remorse!! My fave part was when she told the cops her fake name and then backpedaled when she was in the cop car when questioned why she gave a fake name: "what? Oh, I, I didn't know what was happening ..." Lol ok......

[@thedudeabides5695]

I think the most likely scenario, given her behavior, was that she was giving him the restaurants money with the expectation that he would double/triple/whatever it and then she could later replace the stolen amounts, and no one would be the wiser. She & Anthony would then have the remaining profits. Was she conned by him that he could make that profit with his gambling skills? Perhaps. But she was still knowingly embezzling.

[@Jackjohnjay]

Emotional abuse is wrong even if someone is beautiful and rich. Sheesh.

[@OffbeatsMusic]

Thank you.

[@EmpressEllie]

Exactly.

[@christenmclaughlin8476]

How about the emotional abuse her employees suffered when she refused to pay them and was galivanting around Europe? Come on

[@bc3863]

True

[@Alltagundso]

I thought the one minute break was on purpose. Actually I somehow liked it as a kind of "thinking break" 😅

[@divilmon]

Me too, my first time listening to their podcast had a minute of silence and it just felt very natural, i went to get a water and didn't have to pause. =D

[@shanzaimran1409]

One thing that I wish you have discussed was Sarma's lack of empathy towards her employees. Whole families were not paid. Gaslit and brainwashed or not, she put herself, her dog and pursuit of something eternal abover everyone's means of life. When she came back after the first walkout she would have known what went down and should have made better choices. Sarma seemed to be a selfish person when she made a choice to ruin all those lives just so she can have whatever Anthony promised.

[@alena5484]

Agreed!

[@katalinventilla1915]

Totally, I was thinking about this whilst watching the documentary. If she believed all the bullcr*p Anthony was feeding her about eternal life etc. was making her dog immortal really her first priority in life?? She didn't seem half as worried about her loyal staff and long term friends losing their livelihoods. I feel that although Anthony was clearly the mastermind and the gaslighter in the relationship she chose to play dumb and blind after some point. Also the way she ignored ALL his friends and familiy's advice and repeated warnings. She is clearly a smart person otherwise so I feel she had a big role to play in how things eventually turned out for her and others.

[@SometimesPerplexed]

There's a docuseries on Netflix called “The Puppet Master” which involves similar tactics used against victims who are very average individuals, but who mostly seem to have access to some family financial resources. The “villain” there also introduced paranoid fantasy into victims’ lives, kept them disconnected and moving, used massive gaslighting and other forms of coercive control. Having seen that helped me see Sarma as close to a pure victim.

[@Ellie-i7q-t5w]

Sounds interesting, I haven't heard of this.

[@mistym0rning]

@@Ellie-i7q-t5w - The Puppet Master was so much more compelling than Bad Vegan. Hope you get to watch it :)

[@Ellie-i7q-t5w]

@@mistym0rning will definitely check it out. 🙂

[@catherine.rezzuto]

i was really drawn into "the puppet master" more and felt more empathy for those involved and those who were conned. it also was easier to see how in the 1980's and with college students at the time the guy started his scheme, would believe his paranoid fantasies and cut off all ties to their families.

[@NicoleArata.artworks]

omg yes this one was really good

[@lorenasilva5065]

The first time I heard the minute of silence I thought it was my wifi... the rest of the time I went "ooh let me run and get more water!" 🤣

[@katrinaclark9839]

I noticed the silence but I clean as I listen through wireless headphones so I thought my phone was having connection issues. 😂

[@Lynsey17]

I am not surprised by the Rotten Tomato score but I am SHOCKED viewers rated it so low. I can understand being critical of the people involved but I don't know how you deny the story is insane and the documentary did a great job of telling it.

[@mistym0rning]

I think a lot of viewers might frankly be incapable of seeing the difference between rating a documentary film (for its storytelling, cinematography, style, etc.) versus rating what the documentary was about. I’m sure a lot of people gave it a low rating because the subject matter outraged them, if that makes sense.

[@agravery223]

This was a very boring documentary. Periodt She wasn't a sympathetic subject and the framing of the entire story didn't work. Fail. Get a better director and maybe interview more people to give you an actual true story. Sarma came off as not giving a fck. It was slow moving- I was so bored that I just Google the story and read newspaper articles to try to get to the truth- because that heffa was definitely not telling the entire truth.

[@donnacova]

This guy terrified me. I was worried he would kill her because he had stolen so much from her. The invention of the IT guy and his creepy conversations was diabolical. I don't think she was the con artist but she definitely had some serious character flaws that allowed her to apparently be so duped. That said he was an unbelievably successful manipulator.

[@thedudeabides5695]

Only because she was a nut herself....99.99% of people wouldn't buy any of his BS. (None of the restaurant employees believed a word he said)

[@OffbeatsMusic]

@@thedudeabides5695 I think I would have agreed with that in the past. Over the years, though, from my own experience personally and what I’ve witnessed, especially in women who are not far from Sarma’s age, I happen to believe that the percentage of people who could be duped by a smooth manipulator is disturbingly high. I think it is just this (to me now) misplaced confidence in the majority of the populace’s ability to protect themselves against bad intentions that is almost as dangerous as the perpetrators themselves.

[@thedudeabides5695]

@@OffbeatsMusic That could be, but Sarma is incredibly Shady... her own father and sister confirmed that she only married this guy for his supposed wealth. She demonstrated a near Psychopathic disregard for the welfare of her employees. And we're not talking about your run-of-the-mill deceptions here with Anthony...."Immortality"?... stories that are lifted right out of Science Fiction? Seriously, what normal person would believe any of this?

[@howareyou857]

@@thedudeabides5695 I don't think she is a nut per se but it wouldn't surprise me if she is neuro diverse in some way ...maybe high functioning autistic. The flat affect and social discomfort, the specific dietary requirements, her main close relationship being with her dog...the Harvard Scientist Dad with similar traits. She would potentially be more susceptible to a bullshitter and vulnerable .

[@thedudeabides5695]

@@howareyou857 Good points all...you may be on to something. I'm recalling now that she admitted being very odd & withdrawn as a child....

[@lisaess6514]

On a random note, when I worked in NYC a restaurant opened across the street from my office called FreeFoods. They had hired Matthew Kenny, Sarma’s ex to help with their menu. I met him several times and he was very good looking and charming. And that raw vegan lasagna that they served at Pure was on the menu and OMG was it amazing. I remember the first time I got food there I thought it was so expensive I was never going back but it ended up be8ng my favorite place and I got lunch there several times a week. I also got the recipe for that lasagna and can assure you I’ve never made it. I’m a damn good cook but raw vegan cooking is a LOT of prep and work.

[@sipoli100]

Uselesss comment- what you want to say with this?

[@Blinky.Catttt]

@@sipoli100 To share a random anecdote like she said? What's the point of your comment, just to make her feel bad?

[@thedudeabides5695]

@@sipoli100 She liked the food.

[@asunnywebb]

@@sipoli100 I find her comment amusing. I find yours useless. There are a gazillion other KZbin channels where you're welcome to bully people. This isn't the place for it.

[@jessydiaz4119]

Could we get the recipe? 😁

[@ixizn]

The question of what the proper punishment should be for people like Sarma is interesting to me, especially as someone living in a country where the criminal justice system is set up for rehabilitation for those convincted of crimes. I wish victims of brainwashing could get their “punishment” to be psychiatric help to heal from what they’ve gone through until they’re in a state where they can at least fully wrap their heads around what they’ve been through... I don’t see how prison will help in any way when it comes to situations like this. Obviously it’s a complicated matter all around, but anyway. I don’t think any of the current workings are actually doing any good for victims or society as a whole. P.s Being a listener in Europe and mostly listening to you guys on Spotify, I noticed the silence but just assumed it was where some ads would be and maybe there was something that made it get taken out in my country for whatever reason 😅

[@evanneheath5804]

One more aspect that made her vulnerable to coercive control: her diet. They mentioned in the documentary that she struggled with an eating disorder. I’m guessing from her frame, anorexia. I have always believed that raw food diet is just an acceptable form if highly restrictive eating and orthorexia. She was under a tremendous amount of stress when she met Anthony and was probably barely eating/ getting enough calories in and that probably led to foggy thinking. She was skeletal when she was finally taken into custody. On another note you should read the text messages bt her and her lawyer. They were all about him wanting to have sex with her while she was unconscious on ambien or how he just wanted to “use her body to orgasm”. To both she said sure with a shoulder shrug. What is the diagnosis for that?

[@patty1247]

I agree. And I am trying to go vegan but it’s really for environmental and ethical reasons. There is this whole subculture of vegans (usually raw vegans) who are into the diet as this weird purity thing. And if you eat Oreos (even though they they are vegan) they’ll try to tell you you aren’t really committed.

[@evanneheath5804]

I would proceed with caution. Listen to the Cult of Veganism on the Sounds like a Cult podcast. They do a good job of breaking down the extremist views, culture of shaming and and hypocrisy in this strict philosophy of food consumption. Lots if “us vs them” vibes. I also recommend “maintenance phase” podcast. I personally eat what I want, not too much, mostly vegetables.

[@louisam7225]

@@patty1247 yess there is so much toxicity within plant based circles. try to surround yourself with those that are vegan for the animals and like to complain about the vegan for health people! haha

[@user-yj5pm3gf8h]

@@evanneheath5804 i love that podcast!

[@user-yj5pm3gf8h]

I thought this too! There're plenty of incidents out there where we can see how malleable people can become when experiencing malnutrition and starvation. She wasn't thinking logically at all.

[@akali83]

In England, Financial (economical) abuse has recently been recognised as a crime by a partner and can be prosecuted. To me, this was a clear example of cohersive control. Sharma still defruded investors and lied, so serving some time seems appropriate. But ultimatly she and her family are victims in this.

[@Hili24pur]

I agree 100% With alkali and ania.

[@Celery08]

Glad to hear that because I feel so sorry for the tens of thousands of victims who lose so much money to those scammers. They have whole systems of scripts designed to rope people in.

[@thedudeabides5695]

One thing that I found funny is that Anthony was stealing lines from one of my favorite shows, CW's "Supernatural"! 1. "Fighting monsters...the Family Business". This is the literal motto of the show. You can buy shirts that say this! 2. "Meat Suits"...again, a regular phrase on the show. Meat Suits are humans who are possessed by Demons & Angels.

[@janicedahlman8715]

I'm not sure we can take her for her word in this context. Other investors former employees weren't interviewed in depth. Instead, we saw the friend from Chipotle, her sister, and her dad. Also, I find it interesting that she fired her first lawyer, who was developing her defense based on gaslighting and emotional abuse. Then she hired the second lawyer who scrapped that idea and went in a different direction. How was she able to keep getting investors while being in survival mode too?

[@thedudeabides5695]

Classic "Unreliable Narrator"!

[@catifexart274]

0:00 Bad Vegan 27:14 Minute of silence (lol we've failed you) 31:09 OPP 32:18 Gaslighting / Bad Vegan to be continued

[@BonnyT]

I feel conflicted about Sarma. On one hand, I can see she's been the victim of abuse, but I struggle to have sympathy for anyone seeking immortality for themselves or loved ones. Even if immortality were remotely attainable, I would not feel comfortable being around anyone who coveted immortality. Is it just me?! I just don't understand the appeal of immortality... And I feel frustrated with how much she tries to convince the audience that it's a given that we'd all want our loved ones to be immortal. Sarma also repeatedly said she wanted 'protection', which made me wonder what her preoccupation with that was, and what she actually meant by 'protection'; did she mean financial security or something more significant that she wasn't telling us about? I think her husband exploited her seeming obsession with immortality and 'protection'. I don't believe Sarma conned her husband, as she seems to have been upfront about her interests, but it's right that she is held responsible for drawing others into her husband's financial abuse.

[@janicedahlman8715]

I almost wonder, esp after the last phone call, if they had been using code words all along. Like "the box" could be their scheme and living eternally in the happily ever after means they'll be so rich, they'll never have to worry about money again. Sarma was drowning in debt, even when her restaurant made huge profits.

[@shescalledirina]

Christians covet immortality, just in a different way i.e. not on Earth or the physical realm...

[@onelifesworth7259]

The Silences! Totally noticed the silences. Simply thought it was an ad missing,... maybe one not allowed in my location. Literally thankful to have the silence instead. lol Gave me time to reflect. Why mention it? Love your stuff. Where do you find the time to be so productive!! Stay well Dr. Honda!

[@nross3250]

Excellent talk! I think the most important point you made is that it seems when she was interviewed she wasn’t fully recovered from the gaslighting and abuse. I think that may be a reason why a lot of viewers turned on her. You could argue she seems to be delusional or lying because I think she’s still trying to make sense of everything in her head as she verbalizes it and separate fact and fiction. I think when everything is laid out nicely in the documentary it’s easy to say “what’s wrong with you? Why can’t you see this?!” But we didn’t go through the ongoing systematic abuse.

[@janesmith8676]

I'm tired of people saying vegans and vegetarians are picky. Having a core belief that animals aren't food is completely different than being picky.

[@EmpressEllie]

Same. I was told A LOT that restaurants shouldn’t have to cater to vegetarians since it was a choice and that people should eat meat. For me, it was not a choice. The smell of meat smelled like actual death to me and I couldn’t get it near me.

[@AmyB369]

It's good to hear your take on bad vegan. I just wanted to comment on your sponsorship and I am glad you have a sponsor, but I used better help and it really wasn't good. I also don't think they keep people's information private. I personally didn't have a good experience and it turned me off again from trying therapy

[@TheBreechie]

Yes there are quite a lot of controversies associated with Better Health

[@lavinder11]

I had a great experience with them

[@thirstonhowellthebird]

I’ve been working with someone really good. She’s very private because she’s hiding from her abusive, narcissistic family. That’s the kind of person you need to find. The therapist has to have been through and survived narcissistic abuse and I don’t think anyone at Better Help has that experience. Good luck my friend.

[@TheBreechie]

@@thirstonhowellthebird hiding? Gee that doesn’t sound like she is in healthy place or has healed enough to be working. Did they tell you only a therapist who’s been through it can help? That’s not true, in fact those who’ve been through it are likely to project unnecessarily and reinforce your own underlying issues which attracted the narcissistic abuse. Look, I’m kinda glad to hear you feel you have found the therapist for you but I’m personally a little freaked out about them

[@anelsatxlife]

Yes, she has issues, but I don't believe her issues kept her knowing right from wrong, and that makes her criminally liable. She knew not paying her employees was wrong; she knew borrowing more money from investors when she had no way to pay them back was wrong and she knew giving the guy the money over and over again was keeping her from being able to provide payment and that was wrong. I never got the feeling from the beginning also that she was head over heels for this guy, I mean she hid the wedding ring, that he would have that much control over her. She seemed to marry him for tax free money which was also a conscience choice also. Plus, I think saying that one investor wasn't hard up for money implied like it was okay for her not to be able to pay him back. Doesn't matter if he was hard up for money or not, the investors' money was not hers; it was loaned to her, and she needed to pay the return. She didn't make that money, they did and they loaned it to her because they believed in her, and that is the sad part. I do believe there are people who are Gaslighted, like Betty Broderick, but it is starting to seem like an excuse of knowing right from wrong. Broderick knew killing her husband and wife was wrong, so she's in jail. Sarma knew right from wrong so she deserved to pay for her crimes against the investors and employees.

[@kimberlycoldren4237]

Something that made me believe her being under his spell, was retelling his gambling during the spiral. In the interviewing retell, she believed he'd win $10K at the same time knowing he took money from her mom during that time frame. She still isn't putting all the dots together.

[@thoughttank5107]

Or she was in denial that her money was being using for BS and was tryna be hopefull that he might pull one out and win so she can get it back.

[@FiestyKiki]

Sarma was no victim. She fell for Anthony's ridiculous claims because she was looking for easy money and had flexible ethics about how to get it. Just the fact that she called up Anthony years after her conviction to joke around on the phone with him says it all. She wasn't scared of Anthony. She liked him and liked what he claimed he could do for her.

[@thedudeabides5695]

Exactly - she was betting that he could take the stolen money and double it (or whatever amount) and then she planned on replacing the amount and pocketing the profits!

[@Catsheal]

I don’t understand when people criticize a movie/tv show/book for that reason either. It’s always been a pet peeve of mine too. That people can’t appreciate a book/movie for being well done because they couldn’t identify with characters. Like that doesn’t mean it’s a bad movie. It’s what Umberto said, that just makes the story more interesting and complex. You learn a different point of view or personality/etc.when you watch things like this. It helps to open your mind to new perspectives

[@Catsheal]

Also with the whole vegan/vegetarianism thing, it's really irritating because people don't consider it could be a cultural thing. I didn't grow up a vegetarian, but my parents did and many of my Hindu friends did, and then they would get mocked or told "they are just being picky" but it was a part of our religion. And also meat eaters would mock my brown vegetarian friends for their belief system and tell them they didn't know how to get proper nutrition, they would tell them all sorts of things

[@janicedahlman8715]

True, but I think you also need to remember it's a story from one perspective.

[@Catsheal]

@@janicedahlman8715 yeah and that’s kind of the issue, that a lot of times, brown people’s perspectives are not considered and mocked. Especially when it comes to non-Abrahamic religions

[@ashleythibault5434]

Hearing Dr. Kirk talk about his childhood, 530pm dinner on the dot, and being told "you will eat what is made" makes alot of sense out of my childhood (I'm 1 out of 6 kids).

[@jackiesc4061]

Ohh I was completely drawn in . This is one of the craziest stories I’ve ever heard, and the fact that so much of their conversation was recorded, gave it so much credibility. No overdramatizing necessary .

[@romansakara6456]

Hold up. You believe that was a real organic conversation? I guess you really can convince people of anything.

[@thedudeabides5695]

"So much of their conversation"? It was only a few snippets.....

[@annarennie]

The fact that this "associate" wasn't actually interviewed but was just sitting there reading out the emails kind of told me early on he didn't exist.

[@renajohnson6351]

Kirk and Humberto, Have you guys seen the puppet master on Netflix? Wondering your guys thoughts and opinions on this, I would love to hear a deep dive. I feel like it goes above and beyond all of these shows I've seen on this topic

[@tluvsbeauty1]

Completely agreed! Loved it:)

[@ArijanaLukic]

Yes we are MASTERS of denial. 100% true! One of the biggest obstacles of humanity.

[@Catsheal]

Another thing with gaslighting,( I don't think I experienced that, but something very close to it in my first and only relationship.And he would do this with sexual stuff.) is that atleast for me, I would go into the conversation in the beginning when I opposed something to state my opinion and that was that. And I would always end up believing him, because he was a philosophy major and would use philosophical arguments and stuff he learned to get me to do stuff with him. And I would always end up feeling confused as to how I ended up having his opinon and just a lot of confusion. I would even prepare myself for pushing back with him and his opinion and to keep my opinion in tact. I would mentally prepare myself when I would go to hang out with him, and then I would hold onto my opinion for a bit and then I would end up being confused and agreeing with his opinion and going along with what he wanted me to do. And when it came to sex and stuff, I basically subconsciously started to believe he knew more than me and that he was right, even when I felt uncomfortable.

[@shawnee3able]

The reason for the discrepancy is that the audience doesn’t have a deep understanding of psychological abuse, manipulation and gaslighting. They most likely haven’t been through it themselves and just think she’s a stupid idiot for listening to him. “I would NEVER be that naive/gullible” 🙄 Of course. I’m not surprised at all. I don’t even try to explain because people look at me like I have 3 heads. Lucky them that they’ve lead such charmed, abusive free lives…

[@marthalynx7941]

I think that this documentary was just doing a bad job in telling this weird story. I feel like Sarma didn't open up in front of camera and was something hiding. This story just don't sound believable to me, all of it was very vague. I was like: hon, you are not that stupid and that naive, you are hiding something. And maybe it is just fault of creative team. They didn't tell this story well and convincing.

[@Pandozzi]

One thing in the NXIUM doc that stays with me, is when at the end one of the women said that thinking this only happens to stupid people and would never happen to you, is what makes you that much more susceptible to this happening to you. It's horrible to see how many people mock victims of cults, or fraud in this case. I think declaring the victim as stupid just makes the person feel better about themselves and help their denial that they could never be victims of fraud or manipulation. But we're all vulnerable, depending on the circumstances.

[@Thenumber11ThreeTimes]

Am I the only one who thought they both came across as manic addicts? Their behavior, blood on the floor, disheveled apartment, appearance, entitlement, lack of empathy, the fact that she became more and more reclusive. Two grifters grifting each other and others... Her employees confronted her and she didn't care that he lied about his name, had lengthy criminal history she didn't initially know about, etc. She's a business woman, she knew she could call whatever gov agency he claimed to work for and verify employment. They won't give you details, but this policy is in place to protect the gen public from scumbags. They were both enjoying those embezzled funds and she did not care a bit about ripping of her employees or investors. She was also in no real rush to pay back her initial investor. It didn't matter that he didn't put her on a monthly payment plan, she should have put herself on a reasonable one out of integrity.

[@danimolusco]

yes, I feel like they were leaving some things out, maybe there were drugs involved.

[@thedudeabides5695]

Did they ever explain the blood?

[@thetrainwreck1469]

She would have put more effort into a background check for her employees than she did her own 'husband'

[@shescalledirina]

For the last bit, I can comment as someone who worked in hospitality for over a decade, that in the restaurant business, especially a single independent one, rather than a chain or part of a hotel, there will be times when the takings will give a hefty profit but other times when the takings will barely cover expenses. Things you wouldn't believe affect the number of customers coming through the door as well as how much they spend, like if it's raining or not, if it's too hot or not, if children are off school etc. And yes, I know they were talking about the restaurant being full, but that has to be over a long period of time to be able to keep to a set repayment schedule, not full over the summer then dead for 2 weeks. It's an unpredictable business unless you're in a hotspot or something. Even the most successful restaurants have times where takings are low. So to have a repayment schedule, you'd probably have to go by your worst month so to not get yourself in trouble. Just a little insight if it helps anyone.

[@claudialuna9216]

Honestly I thought that the minute of silence was my audio acting up, I guess now we know 😄

[@sunnypie2]

I noticed the silence after the commercial break and assumed the advertisement didn’t translate to KZbin. 🤭. I just fast forward and forgot. I guess I notice the content more than the technical parts. Nice to know you care about every aspect. That’s why your channel is so pleasing.

[@_d_h_]

28:00 As a sound tech I chucked a bit at the silence parts. To me it didn't even matter that much since you announced a break before - it was even kind of nice! I just thought to myself that "oh so they forgot to insert the sponsor", haha. I'm not sure how you bounce your videos, but if you can see the waveform of the sound file it's easier to spot a longer silence than having to listen to the whole track. If you ever need help with editing or fixing the sound (for example remove buzz in the background) I'd be super happy to help out (free of charge of course).

[@_d_h_]

But yeah now I feel bad for not saying anything. In the future I will keep my ears... peeled?! Can you say ears peeled? Sorry English is not my native language.

[@VladaPechenaya]

Thank you very much for the podcast. I have a question - you say Sarma might have been narcissistic. At the same time it was shown she was emphatic and generous with people (the homeless guy etc.). Can these two coexist? Never seen them being combined in a person before.

[@sB-wt5ov]

This was so interesting. Before remembering that he had a reason for all his lies and even made up this "tech" person who wrote those emails, I thought he must be delusional. but a delusional person doesn't plan to lure someone to Rome so that they can take over the restaurant

[@thedudeabides5695]

The "Tech guy" scenes really had me confused....we knew that there was no "Black Ops" unit, so who WAS that guy? Then they did the big "Fight Club-style" reveal! Touche!

[@thedudeabides5695]

@@sabias3932 I don't think he admitted much...and you can't really believe anything Sarma says, so who knows?

[@sB-wt5ov]

@@sabias3932 I cant recall if he did either, but I think not. Like in the clip where they are in a hotelrom and she implores him to just admit to his lies

[@sB-wt5ov]

@@thedudeabides5695 It was masterful. I was so angry at this guy before the reveal

[@TheDaneyeledee]

@@sabias3932 I think they provided prof that the email address or IP or something was actually connected to Anthony.

[@lavinder11]

I didn't even finish this. It came across as an effort to clean up her image rather than an honest take. Also, she was obviously in on the scam and didn't appear to show any remorse or concern for the folks she harmed.

[@mariec.mauter8640]

Maybe people thought it’s a break time for them to take too?🤷‍♀️

[@nana7905]

Hated it.. If this woman were black, latin or anyother than a pretty, thriving white woman she will be just any other woman in jail. Didn't believe a word.

[@thedudeabides5695]

The "Natalie Holloway" syndrome.

[@laurencarolina636]

I watch Dr. Honda all the time, and I'm a little surprised at his take on ppl's reaction to the documentary. People are disappointed in the lack of investigative journalism. They did not press Sarma on her vague stories even when it was apparent she was not telling the full truth. Ppl's negative reactions aren't necessarily because ppl weren't intelligent enough to discern b/w the doc itself and the actions of the subjects (Sarma and husband).

[@Selenas627]

I was also disappointed with her not being pressed about the vague comments. Also I wonder why they never asked her if she felt bad for swindling the investors and ultimately her company.

[@crib4046]

Best example of gaslighting I've ever heard: Dahlia Dipolito's first prison phone call to the man she'd tried to have murdered. There's video footage of her talking about being "5000%" sure she wanted him dead and he saw it. And she tells him "it's not true!" Amazing. About the food: Had a kid in my class whose mom said "eat your food, there are starving kids in Central Africa". And he said, "ok, let's wrap it up and send it to them." XD

[@thedudeabides5695]

I think in Dahlia's case, she hadn't rehearsed for that possibility, and didn't know how to react, so she just kept lying....

[@carolynsongsore3843]

As a new-to-this-podcast listener, I thought that the minute silence was part of it being a “break” 😂

[@strawbarry418]

The term gaslight comes from the movie gaslight from 1944 starring Ingrid Bergman. That Husband tried to convince her she was insane by doing various things one of which was turning down the gas in the lamps.

[@theresamm21]

I saw it yesterday and immediately I wondered if Dr. Honda would make a reaction video about it 😜😌

[@BeingIntegrated]

I love this stuff. Thanks Dr Kirk!

[@balancewheel]

Haha, I thought that the silence was there so that we too have a break when you guys have one (it was always after you dr. Kirk anounced a break as far as I am aware)! 😆

[@minditee42]

Lmao I thought the same!!

[@gianne9793]

thank for the wonderful deep dive! I just watched it a few days ago and checking out the reviews and critiques and there is so much lack of empathy and joking about with the whole "dog immortality''. I thought I was weird for having so much empathy on her but I'm glad you guys see her as a victim too. I wouldn't say she's did nothing wrong, she hurt a lot of people too and she should pay them back, etc. (Which I heard she gave all her money from this documentary to all the workers she owned money from, so that's good.) nevertheless she still did suffered she didn't gain anything from this. I just wished many shouldn't criticize her too much cause it really can happen to anyone.

[@AM-84582]

I thought the silent breaks were a bit odd, but assumed they were just slots for ad breaks for none paying listeners that didn’t get edited out. Or something to do with KZbin(I don’t listen to every episode so I only noticed this in one). I’ve also definitely ran across this type of silence in other creator’s podcasts(because whatever company manages their ad spaces sometimes goofs up), so I didn’t think much of it when I heard it in yours on a fluke. Don’t beat yourself up too much for it because I doubt the audience will.

[@Blinky.Catttt]

I never heard any silence because my podcast app automatically trims silence ;D

[@AprilT72]

Re: the minute of silence, I thought the break was a literal break 😂. Maybe they went to the bathroom and came back.

[@clandestine73647]

I noticed the silence & didn’t comment on it for 3 reasons: 1. It didn’t bother me whatsoever. 2. I thought it was space for an ad read but there just wasn’t an ad to be read for the video, so for a reason unbeknownst to me the silence was kept in. & 3. As the channel has gotten bigger, I’ve noticed some unnecessary criticism, so I decided not to criticize since it didn’t bother me & wasn’t sure if Dr. Honda cared or would see my comment. Good to know our comments are seen. I’ll start commenting more often! I love this show & it’s part of my inspiration to change career fields & become a therapist myself.

[@sarahserenity3872]

Omg, thank you for reacting to this doc! I just finished it and I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

[@meepgirl1434]

I just assumed that you guys did that one minute break on purpose to make us take a break and walk away from the computer. My teachers with online school will sometimes do that. I was like weird but okay

[@jessicaholt8078]

Inventing Anna, the Dropout, were really well-told and surprisingly accurate portrayals of true events. From a documentary stand point the Tindor Swindler was well done. I don't think the fascination with cons will go away because it causes cause for concern. People love the "if it could happen to them it could happen to me factor" .

[@snapshotsofparadise]

When I heard the silence I just assumed I was having a problem with my headphones!🤣

[@richardsonIII]

In regards to the last bit of the conversation about veganism- there are definitely vegans who seem to value the purity of being hyper fixated on ingredients, contamination etc. I was there to some degree early in my veganism. I think learning all the ethical implications of meat and dairy production can be a little intense. I've definitely chilled out a lot- not because I feel any differently about animal welfare, but because I don't see that sort of rigidity attracting people to veganism. I'm sad that people knowing about the reality of factory farming doesn't convert everyone to veganism, but that's the reality.

[@kcmdjdkdn282]

I found the silence relaxing lol. It was like a real-time break.

[@blondinevloggt]

if we make lying to your spouse about money a crime, how do we decide which lies should remain legal at all? should adultery be treated as a crime again? i mean cheating is awful. what about emotional cheating, should that be a crime? in my opinion not every immoral action should be criminalised. there's some dangerous people who aren't criminals, just like how some criminals aren't a danger to anyone at all. i don't need the government to protect me from my own bad decisions.

[@jennielizross]

I think that a lot of the time people feel judged by vegans/vegetarians it is because they know it is better for your health and the environment and they already feel bad about it, so they think they are being judged because they are judging themselves. I occasionally eat meat (although never red meat or pork) and my boyfriend and most of my friends are vegetarian/vegan. I know that they are not judging me and do not feel like they are, but I do judge myself for it. It is difficult when your favorite foods from your culture have meat products, but I have definitely cut way down on eating meat and only have it a few times a month.

[@TheDaneyeledee]

I don’t think that’s what it is at all. There are many vegans who openly shame people for their dietary choices. Also, veganism is not an appropriate diet for everyone.

[@veridianroots]

I'm really happy about your attitude towards veganism and I'd be over the moon if the world's governments would finally take action against animal cruelty and mass farming. But the reality is, they won't. It comes down to grass roots effort in this. Meat consumption is going up steadily despite more people being aware of how animals are treated and even the effects on our planet... Would be amazing if anyone who knows about the issue took the plunge to at least vegetarianism - it's actually pretty great here on the "other side" ;)

[@BitterSweetCoffee3]

Sarma clarified on her IG that conversation on the documentary at the end made it feel like they are in touch, but the conversation happened long time ago. She does not talk to Anthony according to her.

[@thedudeabides5695]

What's important is that the convo happened long after they were released from prison....and they're laughing & joking about it? WTF? Made it sound like she was always in on the con!

[@BitterSweetCoffee3]

@@thedudeabides5695 Well, this shows how brainwashed she is. It takes years like Dr. Honda said for someone to break free mentally and see things for what they are. I hope she seeks therapy.

[@shescalledirina]

By the time I've watched they must have changed it to state it was in 2019. I personally didn't think it showed they were the best of friends or anything like that, but it did shine a light on the dynamics of their conversations, she'd start with rejection, then questioning, then being agreeable. I think it shows how she ended up doing his bidding more than anything.

[@thedudeabides5695]

@@BitterSweetCoffee3 You're being very naive.

[@BitterSweetCoffee3]

@@thedudeabides5695 I can see how you think I am naive if you never experienced gaslighting/brainwashing.

[@eaglbabe]

I definitely thought the minute of silence was the space for the ad on a podcast platform lol.

[@crazywhirlwind]

Hahahahah Dr..Honda, that silence was a mistake?!! I noticed it happening right after u talked about copyright issues for Netflix (Love is Blind) and thought you silencing parts of the reaction was a way to avoid violations..

[@Sapageb]

I was so surprised when I heard you be mortified about the moment of silence. I am a relatively new listener and I thought it was your style to make us think about stuff :-)

[@coconutbarbelle]

Shoutout to Umberto for his intro "...and I make erotic origami"😂😂😅

[@crazywhirlwind]

Omgg I never realized why I scoffed at people with different dietary needs/wants. I mean I get the needs but when they say they can't eat gluten and it's cause they just don't want to so they can eat healthy, I tend to roll my eyesbat it. But yes when I was a kid, I couldn't leave the table without finishing my food whatever it was! Even it was just a plate of white rice left! But then when I moved to the U.S., seeing people who don't need to finish their plate I like resented them. Possibly projecting my resentment of my dad who made me finish my plate no matter what to people who didn't have to do that!

[@abandonablesnowman]

As a vegan, I was made fun of constantly for it in the Navy lol I always just played along because it didn’t really bother me anyway, but it definitely makes people that aren’t from liberal areas uneasy and defensive. I tried to keep it to myself as much as possible, but everyone knew because of all the jokes

[@Hi-to-ri]

Sorry you went through that. O know what you mean.

[@thedudeabides5695]

Oh my God, you're ALSO a Vegan now? Is there any topic that you don't claim as your own? Less and less believable! I mean, Come On!

[@cherryflame]

I kinda liked the minute of silence lol it felt like I was going on a break as well

[@lorenza696]

I usually listen to the audio only post on spotify, and I did notice the silence. I thought it odd but thought it was pursful, so I simply fwd. Sorry Dr. Honda

[@rebeccarodriguez8433]

Avoidant checking in 👍🏼 yes, my dog is my primary support in my life. I don’t even think to call friends or family members

[@skinsolicitor]

The pause of silence, I would just assume that's your break hahahha

[@Mother_of_muffins]

I thought it was an interesting story but it wasn't a well made documentary. We needed to hear some different perspectives. This was basically just a video diary which is interesting but not what I want out of a documentary.

[@trulytess9674]

So interesting that coercive control is not a criminal offence in the US. In the UK it is.

[@ihavenocleansocks]

I noticed the error, the minutes of silence, but, I kinda liked it. I would grab something out of the room without needing to pause.

[@ihavenocleansocks]

I would even like it if you kept it in. Mindfulness practice.

[@GuenevereSchwien]

You should read her blog posts. Very long and revealed more about her than the documentary. Maybe make a part two to her personality analysis.

[@thebowandbullet]

I haven't watched it and don't intend to. The title vs the trailer were enough to turn me off of it. Really transparent clickbaiting... it has nothing to do with veganism or being vegan. One of the characters being vegan/having a vegan restaurant is purely incidental. Could have been a steakhouse without changing the plot. It's just baiting viewers into hate-watch bashing vegans/veganism, and they too will be disappointed because it has nothing to do with that.

[@thedudeabides5695]

Being a tad defensive, aren't you? The Vegan restaurant was central to the story, and they have to call it SOMETHING! (Was "Tiger King" bashing Tiger lovers?)

[@bigwhy6845]

@@thedudeabides5695 No, Bow is right. It could have been any type of restaurant and the story would have been the same. Tiger King was a much more apt title for the story of Joe Exotic, it summed up his persona. And it's not okay to clickbait people under the guise of vegan bashing. People bully vegans enough as it is. When I was vegan, people would feel entitled to interrogate me, completely unprompted, about my diet and lifestyle choices and make cruel jokes at my expense. 99% of vegans are just trying to live their lives and eat vegan food in peace. So it's a cheap shot to call the doc "Bad Vegan" because it's just more unjustified ridicule of veganism.

[@thedudeabides5695]

@@bigwhy6845 I never met anyone who "bashes" vegans....

[@bigwhy6845]

@@thedudeabides5695 is your lived experience is the be-all-end-all truth for everyone in the world?

[@thedudeabides5695]

@@bigwhy6845 Yep.

[@BonnyT]

REACTION REQUESTS from a fellow human with one Japanese parent: Love Is Blind Japan AND 'Old Enough!' (「はじめてのおつかい」Hajimeteno Otsukai, translates as 'My First Errand'), which comes out on Netflix next Thursday. Would love to see you react to these Japanese reality shows!

[@ymaculateadhiambo5136]

I'd love to see him react to Love is Blind Japan, too!

[@alexm23xx58]

Love your podcasts! They keep me entertained on my dog walks

[@Cathee45]

Was she really gaslit though... The last phone call they had was super flirty?!

[@suigeneris6397]

I watched the first two episodes and found it boring. The story could have been told in 30 minutes but they dragged it out. I also don't think the story was told or explained very well. I didn't understand the reasoning behind why this woman would believe this deranged lunacy, so there's no closure. Also, the Tinder Swindler (which was also overrated) was so recent that this doc just seems like a rehash of the same material.

[@thedudeabides5695]

The first 2 episodes were indeed boring, and I nearly quit watching myself. But the 3rd/4th episodes revealed the whole story....you should finish it. And the ending DID suggest a closure - mainly that Sarma was more complicit than she admitted, and that she was in on the con herself. (Listen to the final phone convo between the pair just prior to the credits rolling - they're LAUGHING about the whole thing. It's scary!)

[@theablue9224]

Of course, I noticed a minute of silence as I listen to each of your podcasts. At first I thought something went wrong, then I was sure someone would let you know, and in the end I kinda liked it .. 👀 Forgive us for not informing you,Dr Kirk 🤍

[@Ellie-i7q-t5w]

I didn't mind the silence because it seemed like a spot for an ad that didn't push thru. I just skip forward, not a problem. If anything, I felt bad because I thought the podcast lost a sponsor. 😁

[@beatrizroman3452]

I never heard a minute of silence, ever! And i listen to almost all, if not all your episodes!

[@Yasmin-pi5pr]

I was waiting for this!

[@cezzuprerna1]

I feel it's because she's beautiful and sucessfull, viewers subconsiously want her to be complicit and fit into their blonde femme fatale image. Also unless someone is overexpressive, cry, scream and do theatrics the person is not percieved to be a victim. This happens a lot when any woman is abused and don't fit into the battered woman image.

[@RenayOpish]

Was hoping you would do this!! Can’t wait to watch!

[@RenayOpish]

Also- this was RAW vegan fare, one of about 4-5 raw restaurants in NYC, at the crest of the raw food craze. There was another place and that owner/chef got arrested for flashing someone. Another raw food chef/owner claimed to be a breatharian. It was crazy town.

[@janicedahlman8715]

I believe it was a con all along and she wanted Anthony's gambling skills to help get her out of debt.

[@Lynsey17]

I mean, if that is the case they did an awful lot of work to cover their tracks in a way that wasn't logical and didn't actually help them. I believe the story and I agree that Sarma was a victim but I also think she needs to take more accountability for her choices than she appears to in the documentary.

[@cloo6984]

I agree! At first I felt bad for her after listening to some of the calls. By the end tho I came to the conclusion that the "marriage" was totally transactional and she kept going along, waiting for the BIG WIN aka the "fairytale ending" ...but got in way over her head. Edit: ..and that very last phone call confirmed it for me.

[@thedudeabides5695]

@@cloo6984 Absolutely! A huge Tell was the contradiction between her "talking to the camera" persona (timid, scared, confused) and the real persona of the recorded phone calls (aggressive, smart, not taking his BS). I also noted that she NEVER answered a direct question about her actions when questioned by the Director - Always deflected. (A trait that her Tennesse Chipotle friend noted as well!) That last laughing phone convo was chilling!

[@cloo6984]

@@thedudeabides5695 exactly! During the 3rd episode it finally clicked..the "happily ever after"..fairytale ending was really the BIG WIN they had been shooting for and why she CONTINUED to give him money...and that last phone call... Edit: and yes, the huge contrast between being on camera and those recordings!

[@shescalledirina]

What gambling skills? Lol

[@ellicia230]

I didn't say anything about the minute of silence, because I remember you mentioning that there are a lot of hoops you have to jump through to use clips from netflix and these other networks/streaming platforms in your reaction videos. So I just assumed the minute of silence in some of your videos was just some sort of measure taken to comply with guidelines LOL Also, I don't really comment about tiny things like that, especially because it's just one small thing in a surplus of quality content

[@missalpaca6116]

I feel the same when someone is picky!! I get kind of anxious when someone asks for more than what is there. even when we pay for it :') my mom is similar actually. but she takes it a little bit too far. even when she was a kid, she had to babysit my uncles (her younger siblings) and do the house work. so when we go eat out, she feels bad for the waitresses and does not want to ask for anything 😅 one time we were staying at a hotel and she did not order coffee because she was worried it will be too much for the staff. this is actually sad when I think about it

[@tbee1575]

I enjoy your channel. With that, it would help to give an overview of the story you’re discussing before you go into the conversation and question asking with the cohost. I did not watch the documentary, but I enjoy your show so much that I wanted to listen. Just a suggestion.

[@emiiii]

Oh yeah I noticed the silence in one of the episodes but I didn’t say anything lol But don’t be mortified bc I literally forgot as soon as the episode resumed.

[@SableRain]

I didn't say anything about the silence because I know Dr. Honda is really busy, and it didn't feel like a big deal to me. Next time I'll speak up though.

[@romansakara6456]

Terrible video and terrible analysis. You are taking Sarma's testimony at face value and assuming everything she is saying is true. That is not analysis, that is reiterating the fake narrative she created in order to get away with the crime that she committed. She was well aware of everything that was going on in since she planned the entire thing.

[@thetrainwreck1469]

I agree with you 100%

[@haleygonzalez6211]

I kind of liked the silence. Felt like I was taking a quick break with you! Thought it was just something new you were doing lol

[@maryjanekapteyn8964]

I’m a new listener and I just thought the break was quiet. I didn’t mind. I have bigger fish to fry. … didn’t realize it’s a mistake.

[@marleneg7794]

Bdid Berto just compared to the Graduate to Bad Vegan?