Rim Brakes Vs Disc Brakes: Which Really Are Better?

[@gcntech]

What do you make of the results? Do you even care? Are you team rim or team disc?

[@ssaunders2k]

How would cable actuated disc brakes fit into the results?

[@rushikeshtapre8620]

mechanical Disc brake 🗿

[@danc1829]

Should of used alloy wheels in the wet... Not like your using a carbon disc in the wet is it 🤦‍♂️

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

Rim brakes for road is the best . You can see that the cycling industry is pushing this disc brake bike. It doesn't benefit racing at all, especially changing a flat.

[@cympaul937]

Have you tried using hydraulic rim brakes and add it in the comparison? But you'll have to the test all over again 😆

[@illuminat3858]

Rim brakes for a good sunny ride but disc brakes for long steep descents and unpredictable weather. I like the simplicity, ease of cleaning/maintenance, lower price range and lighter weight of a rim brake bike but I also like the confidence boosting brake power/modulation of disc brakes. The downside of disc brakes are the rotor rubbing sounds (alignment issues/rotor warping), leaking brake fluid reservoir, brake/rotor contamination, piston issues, and much more expensive.

[@DaveCM]

LOL! Contamination. That is my favorite! I can clean my pads, perfectly align my pads and rotors, and be enjoying my perfectly quiet ride. Then I ride through a random, unavoidable puddle and my brakes are screaming for the rest of the ride.

[@Bluesman2509]

@@DaveCM THIS is why I stuck to rim brakes, just use alloy rims in winter 😁🤣

[@cheamheadcamer7584]

Try riding an MTB trail on rim brakes

[@DaveCM]

@@Bluesman2509 Yeah. I do like the disc brakes, but sometimes I just wish if stuck with rim. Cheaper to maintain too. At least on the road bike. On my gravel bike, no way.

[@gcntech]

Great comment! 👍

[@lostisleminstrel]

Part of why I love watching your channel is seeing testing that I am unable to do myself. ;Rim brakes for me. Dry weather rider, do all my own maintenance work on bikes. Never had a rim brake that didn't get me stopped fast enough during a life threatening car vs bicyclist situation. Keep up the good work.

[@jmpete517]

I live in a relatively flat area in the US. Rim brakes on my road bike work great for me here. Even in wet conditions. I generally ride 18-20mph. Descents are not long enough to justify disc brakes. My road bike is 10 years old. No need to buy a new bike just to upgrade to disc. I’ve ridden the same bike in Colorado on mountain roads. I felt safe at 45-50mph. Braking time was not a concern. Plan ahead and kept my fingers on the brake levers to be ready.

[@vdkh3625]

100% 🇺🇦

[@SignorLuigi]

My experience with rim brakes is that the brake pads I use can play a significant factor in performance. Not saying the best performing rim brake pads weren't used in this test, but... Also significant advances have been made recently by certain rim brake carbon wheel manufacturers with regard to their stopping ability, especially in wet conditions. Not saying this test didn't use one of these higher performing rim brake carbon wheels, but... Also, as Ollie said/implied, the type braking system you use most often will help you to get the most out of the system. Ollie is a master climber, so maybe he does use rim brakes most often. But on your videos, he seems to be using disk brakes most of the time. So in this one time test, I would think his better instincts with disk brakes would give disk brakes an advantage. I know I am sounding like a bitter, rim brake lover. But experimental design is a big part of my job and so I obsess over these things. Cheers, Mr. Luigi

[@james-tennis]

They had a pretty awesome rim brake bike there so I imagine almost top of the line technology. I've used mavic rsys alloy wheels with their specific rim brakes and I still wasn't happy with it in wet conditions. I know they talked about emergency stopping here, but I'm also concerned at just slowing down on descents. To me it's overall harder to brake with rim brakes in wet conditions and just not as safe as disc.

[@andreemurray7039]

I've used alloyrims for over 40 years the problem I see is the carbon rims and the brake pads are rubbish in wet everyone to their own choice but I'm happy on alloy rim brakes 😀

[@TSonemusic]

That’s 10 years longer then i’m alive so this means you’re used to rim brakes throughout. Which also means that even if discs are better they wouldn’t be for you because it’s different than what you’re used to. I started mountain biking on discs 6 years ago and my first road bike had discs. So for me it would feel very sketchy to go back to rim brakes even if they have some advantages.

[@samuelthompson5094]

Humans existed for thousands of years before toilet roll was invented. Everyone to my own but I prefer to wipe my arse with a leaf.

[@ChromeStrand]

Yep, I have both carbon + Rim brake combo and Alloy + Rim, Alloy i don't really have problem with this even in wet condition, (if there's one, maybe the super black waters drip from the surface due to the friction) but with Carbon wheels, I really able to tell it's not working at all. the noise and performance, and confidence, material I lost from grinding(higher cost for the wheelset), everything gets much much worse in rain.

[@DesuchanSugoi]

​@@TSonemusic I also started mountain biking on discs; hydraulic ones to be exact. Just recently I got my first road bike, a 1982 Nishiki Continental; almost entirely original parts. Let me tell you I was shocked by how well 40-year-old side pull brakes can stop a bike. That's with ancient non-aero brake levers with no return spring, standard cable housing that probably hasn't been changed in a few decades, and some of those basic Dia-Compe black brake pads with the metal holder.

[@supermitendo9654]

Yep I will never use rim brake with alloy wheels so my option is Disc+Carbon vs Rim+Alloy, and I choose carbon wheels

[@rmnstr604]

Tires make a much bigger impact on braking performance. It’s easy to lock the wheels with both rim and disc brakes. It’s not lack of stopping power but rather lack of grip that makes the biggest difference.

[@gamingaccount4935]

Wider tyre + low pressure = more grip/less lethal discbrake (and slow AF 🤣)

[@neilmcgurk2227]

The shortest stopping, or slowing, distance relies on not locking the wheels, but getting as close as possible. Disc brakes have more modulation, which is better for getting closer to, without actually locking up. So I think you are absolutely right about the grip, and that is dependent on tyre and rim. Obviously more choice with disc.

[@Digi20]

When you can lock the frontwheel so that you would go over the bar you obviously dont have a tire that has not enough grip?

[@Ferrichrome]

@@Digi20 what hes saying is that no matter how good your brakes are, the limiting factor will be your tires

[@sora11231]

I am also thinking of that You can easily lock your rear wheel with both types

[@keithfoley-chell1645]

I'm 100% convinced that disc brakes stop better, especially in the wet and allow faster descending. Even more so after watching this video. However, when I bought a new bike last year I chose rim brakes. Reasons: 1. Lighter 2. Less expensive 3. Easier to change a flat 4. Less maintenance. Rim brakes pretty much just need new pads every now and then. 5. At 72yo, I don't race any more and am a dry weather only rider. If it's raining, hello Zwift! 🙂 Even though I've never had a problem with rim brakes in 42 years of riding and road racing, if I was racing now and training in the wet, I would definitely choose discs. It's "horses for courses". You just have to know what your own needs are (or own 2+ bikes!)..

[@Silidons91]

I don't understand how better stopping has anything to do with descent speed? If you are familiar with the road, you should know what speeds to take corners at, and that means it does not change the descent speed. Everyone I have ridden with, cannot keep up with me on descents, because they ride their brakes. I very rarely use my brakes on descent, even in large curves, only if it's a super hairpin curve. I regularly go 50+ mph, I just hit 53.3mph last week actually. I have both rim and disc, and I just know that on my rim brake bike I need to start my braking a little earlier on certain turns. Descent speed has nothing to do with it.

[@ericl6460]

Why is it easier to change a flat? Not sure I understand how

[@Silidons91]

@@ericl6460 Probably because you don't have to mess with the rotor when re-installing, and most disc brake bikes require an allen key and don't have just a QR skewer like rim does

[@ericl6460]

@@Silidons91 I guess for road bikes you'd probably have a thru-axle if you had discs? I mostly ride mountain bikes so disc + quick release is still really common

[@Silidons91]

@@ericl6460 Yeah probably like 95% of disc brake road bikes are thru axle with an allen key, not a quick release

[@truthseeker8483]

A Rim brake is a 700mm disc brake......an Alloy rim with rim brake would work better. Best advantages of disc brake 1. Through axle keeps wheels in alignment 2. Hydraulic lines can be routed through frame without effecting braking performance 3. More likely to be in good adjustment with average rider. 4. A bigger choice of Carbon wheels 5. Makes you wallet lighter for less weight 6. A disc will clear water quicker because it is not down near the ground. 😃 The extra weight is not just the braking components..the wheels need more spokes/through axles, hubs need disc mounting, the fork needs to be stronger and the frame needs to be stronger

[@henseleric]

Larger tire-selection -very helpful as you age.

[@truthseeker8483]

@@henseleric I know the feeling 😀

[@chucknaussie]

makes your wallet lighter....lol

[@cooltwittertag]

all this shows is that you fundamentally do not understand what a disc brake is and how it works.

[@cooltwittertag]

like claiming that rim brakes on alloy brake better than discs is the level of smarts id expect from a pre schooler.

[@troyg1673]

I enjoy the content you guys produce. I have a road bike with rim brakes / carbon Campagnolo Bora wheels AND a road bike with Shimano hydraulic disc brakes. No question disc brakes outperform in the wet. The braking feel and consistency of discs is very similar in wet or dry on disc brakes (just like a car), BUT in dry conditions, I can stop very quickly on rim brakes with carbon wheels. I think we need to remember that skill and technique are probably the biggest factors of stopping distance for modern cycling equipment. How many cyclists practice emergency braking? A well executed emergency/hard stop does not include a long rear wheel skid. Emergency stopping is 90% front brake control - braking to the limits of front wheel grip. The rear brake contributes only a small amount of stopping power as the weight transfers forward and thus lightens the rear wheel, reducing grip. Moving your body back over the rear wheel can add a bit extra stopping power in an emergency stop. In terms of comparing braking in the dry of the 2 different systems, the test should be conducted by 2 cyclists that were equally highly skilled in their preferred use of rim / disc brakes. I think we would see a much smaller difference between the 2 braking distances in the dry. Reading the comments, the best braking system for you is the one that you are most confident using.

[@deanokeano6386]

I came from mountain bikes and bmx with rim (v) brakes, then disc on the mountain bikes after about 2005, i got a gravel bike with disc brakes a year or so ago, loved the road type of bike, so I recently built up a pure road bike, I was worried a little by all the talk of rim brakes being not very good, also caliper brakes In my past were complete garbage, I’m pleased to report that my ultegra rim brakes on 50mm carbon clinchers are more than capable of hauling my 94kg up without a fuss even when at 50-55 kph, discs are nice but not required has been my experience

[@discbrakefan]

Ridden it in the rain yet?

[@durianriders]

@@discbrakefan locked up a road race tire with hydro disc in the rain yet? Did you watch the 2021 WET giro? Who won and on what braking system?

[@bleuify7]

@@discbrakefan many times, why do you ask?

[@LoscoeLad]

@@durianriders you're a big fan of rim brakes hey.. I;ve only had a disc brake road bike, but thinking of building a rim brake bike soon

[@matt_m126]

I am not in favour of one or another, however the first test involved Ollie locking up. Once this happens, the tires are what is stopping you, not the brakes, so I think it would be invalid.

[@cooltwittertag]

Locking up is pointless yeah, because you wont be stopping. No one on a road bike has monster truck wheels

[@chrissinclair6086]

My last rim bike, Giant Propel Advanced Pro had lovely carbon wheels, until it rained. Being a heavy rider I dreaded descents in wet, or anything not dry. Now on disc's I don't worry at all.

[@Stefano-cz6bo]

My experience is only with rim brakes and aluminium wheel rims. With this combination, you can easily apply enough braking torque to overturn and fall ahead of your bike or to loose adhesion on the rear wheel and loose control of the bike. So, in the end, the distance of a safe emergency stop (especially downhill) will be much more affected by your skills as a driver than by having a rim-braked or disk-braked bike. Similarly, the time I need to ride downhill is mostly affected by things like cars I find on my way, a bit of sand or water on the road which will make me a bit more cautious etc. To me, riding a bike with disk brakes means having available a lot of extra braking torque which however will be seldom exploited by a less-than-average driver like me.

[@pnewt8458]

Good point

[@cooltwittertag]

It is much easier to modulate disc brakes + they work in rain Also habe you ever down a long, steep descent? If not, I suggesst you try that on rim brakes, its not much fun

[@KY-pk2rd]

After quite a lot of rainy rides, I would like to share some of my feelings over rim vs. disc. 1. People argue that the main point of disc is better than rim is that the braking power doesn't decrease during rainy day. It is true, however, I don't see many people ride on rainy days, also, during rainy day ride, debrids on the road, grease mixed with water from other cars can enter the gap between the disc and calipers, causing the brake to make unpleasant squeaky noise. Also, as the cooling water get contact with the hot disc, it may cause mini-bend on the disc, cause more unnecessary scratches. And you guessed it, the squeaky sound can persist even days after many many dry day rides. 2. An ordinary rim can greatly lose braking power in rain, however, the one I use, Mavic Exalith, with tiny grooves with ceramic coat on the rim surface, I will say the braking power still retains roughly 90% even in big rain, so for me I don't see any problem. 3. In any case, you don't ride fast during rainy day, because the friction between the pavement and wheel is also decreased, the worst scenario is the wheel been locked. Final verdict: If you can ignore the unpleasant noise from the disc after rainy day ride, then disc is totally fine, let alone if you have hydraulic brake, your hands are way less stressful and tired. If you have much experience in rain with rim and know how to properly control, rims are fun, low-maintenance and still powerful.

[@gcntech]

If you live somewhere with consistently dry weather, performance in the wet will obviously be less of a factor, whereas if you live somewhere with a wetter climate, it will be more significant. It al depends

[@adamlynch9153]

Not with carbon rim brakes 😎

[@sora11231]

@@gcntech I live in a place where it's either hot and dry as desert or raining cats and dogs

[@BICIeCOMPUTERconGabriele]

Smart man! Quality alloy wheels and rim brakes are good enough!

[@nstrug]

For those of us who live in the U.K., if we didn’t ride on rainy days we basically would only ride for a couple of weeks per year. We have roads that literally never dry out, even at the height of summer. It’s been high 20s here for a few days but I know on my club ride this evening we will go through two flooded road sections. Outside of ‘summer’ this would be multiplied twenty times even if it happened to not be raining on that day.

[@steveco1800]

My summer road bike has rim brakes and alloy rims. Discs don't offer any real improvements in the dry for me, and add weight and complexity. I don't push the limits on the brakes. My winter and XC bikes have discs, which are undoubtedly worth it in bad conditions.

[@ancogbernard]

pointless comparison🤷 try roadbike with disc. cause they aren't thesame feelings😏 compare it to long descend. which is better.

[@steveco1800]

@@ancogbernard My winter bike is an Orro Terra GRX with 32c slicks and before that I had a CAADX Rival which had 28c slicks. I know the advantages they bring but also the issues - GRX is much better than Rival was, but still not as hassle free as MTB discs. Long descents on road discs almost always results in the pads rubbing the rotors because the clearance is tighter, usually it goes away but they're very sensitive to any warping from the heat. The summer road bike I have no worries of potential niggles and they have plenty of performance for 25c tires at my weight.

[@ancogbernard]

@@steveco1800 old tech? disc rubbing is old issue.

[@steveco1800]

@@ancogbernard Shimano GRX on my bike is from late 2019 and is current tech. Generally it's pretty dependable, I do like it a lot, but I have to tweak the rotor alignment occasionally to keep them straight and I see no point on the road bike. I get it with high end carbon rims but I'm not bothered about getting crazy expensive wheels. The 2015 SRAM Rival was a nightmare, sticky pistons and loose levers despite bleeding. They were far worse than the Formula Oro K24 disc brakes I bought for my MTB back in the early 2000s, which were actually pretty decent and only started getting similar issues after many years of use. As well as the extra cost and weight, disc brakes on road bikes also compromise fork compliance because of the extra strength needed with the braking force at the axel.

[@ancogbernard]

@@steveco1800 rubing disc is better than riding rim on long descend tho. as if there is no rubing on rims🤷 btw... that issue was solve by new gen shimano. mtb's and roadbikes. you can use mtb caliper in your gravel bike to solve your problem😉

[@tquindt1]

"Can I get a ride to the top?" For a moment Ollie was sounding like a mountain biker.

[@woutervanderdoes5163]

One major factor that would have been important to keep similar between the two bikes is the wheel/tyre combination. Using significantly different rims (in this case rim brake was on 19 mm internal, disc brake 21 mm internal) and different tyres (cinturato/all season vs p zero/race tyre) has a large impact on grip. And exactly what Ollie said, the road were very smooth, which results in limited grip. Obviously disc brakes offer better stopping power, but in this case the odds were further stacked against the rim brake bike by using narrower rims combined with less grippy tyres with a higher rolling resistance, which I presume to have had a noticable impact on the "scientific" aspect of this video.

[@vivaparenzo]

Exactly, i learned to ride on disc brakes and 28mm tyre.. when I tested rim brake with 23mm cheap tyre Lugano i screamed all the way down the hill. It seemed to me like no brake power at all

[@ClemB-n5g]

100% for a wide moderate gradient decent like that brake power should have no diffrence in speed as you probably only ever need 50% brake power use on the rim brakes... Good spot on the tyres they will be where all the speed win for the disc bike came from.

[@florenceetalexismartel8365]

Are you sure the Cinturato have less grip than Pzero ? I'm using them as winter tyres and the are grippy. I'm not using the PZero durung the summer but the Conti GP5000 and the Schwalbe pro one and I didn't notice a grip difference (rolling resistance is higher for sure)

[@KILLTHEREDDITOR]

it's because they're sponsored bro lmao how hard would it be to make sure that everything is as similar as possible on both bike before testing them?

[@georgebirddrums]

There's also the braking surface on the rim brake track. I don't know that vision wheelset, but they didn't seem to have the kind of textured brake tracks that come on a lot of wheelsets these days

[@LucasGerrijts]

I've used a rimbrake MTB and racing bikes for many years in the past. In 2019 I upgraded both bikes. I got the MTB first and using that I was so impressed with the stopping power and the ability to control the pressure/braking force in all weather conditions; I decided that my new racing bike just had to have hydraulic brakes as well. I don't care about the few additional seconds uphill or due to aero; but the safety it brings in emergency stops is what matters most.

[@nstrug]

Direct mount rim brakes are spectacularly good (especially the Campag ones ❤️). I love rim brakes on dry rides but in the wet, especially on carbon rims, give me disc any day. My concern is that the whole industry is going towards disc meaning that we are having less and less options on quality frames.

[@james-tennis]

Agreed. Disc brakes all day in wet conditions and to me, that just means disc brakes period.

[@mikesmithchchnz]

There are many variables in rim vs disc brakes, 2 of the main things are: 1) brake pads, and 2) braking surfaces, e.g. alloy vs carbon for rim. Specific rim brake pads for wet conditions can out perform disc brakes. Alloy rims also generally perform better than carbon in wet conditions, but with cadence braking on downhills, carbon rims are fine, just watch for overheating.

[@stephanemartin4733]

I have Dura Ace rim brakes and they are perfectly fine for climbing and descending.

[@jamesmckenzie3532]

Dura Ace are bonded aluminium to carbon. That gives you the best of both worlds. Shimano actually produces special pads for these wheels.

[@gcntech]

It's a personal choice at the end of the day, whatever you're most comfortable with

[@tasteit9719]

@@gcntech No it is not personal choice, you are constantly raping the audience with disc brakes, same like industry

[@wallacewestmeath]

@@gcntech i agree ,, its all down to choice ... i am sure some people think candles are better than electric lights .

[@michadebicki6534]

Switched to discs recently and never looked back. Far superior braking power in any weather condition. After a season I swapped the pads to metallic-ceramic and oh boy how much stopping power does they have. Certainly there were issues with rubbing but couple of park tool tutorials later I learned how to correctly set up and align them, perform bleeding procedure and clean pads/rotors to avoid loud noises. Yes, my humble rim brakes were simplier to maintain but discs are just better, especially when bombing any ling descent or in any emergency situation or in bad weather.

[@marcelr.9035]

I'm a professional mechanic and deal with disc brakes all day, the more I work on them the more I'm glad my bike has rim brakes

[@nickjanssen]

Okay, why?

[@vika0194]

Dumbest thing I have read. The emergency stop test showed the difference. You probably want rim brakes on cars too.

[@RealMTBAddict]

Lol

[@dmitryhetman1509]

I had so much pain with rim brakes, but they are a lot lighter

[@dmitryhetman1509]

@@vika0194 on bike you should ride not brake

[@james-tennis]

I'm glad you guys did this video. I hit a deer on rim brakes in wet conditions, not even as rainy as this video but damp, foggy, wet roads. I almost stopped in time but almost doesn't cut it and I forced myself to the ground as I hit the deer's chest. The deer was fine don't worry, barely touched him! I switched to disc brakes soon after and am happy not riding rim brakes anymore, especially in wet conditions.

[@gethinap]

Disc Brakes give people who are new to cycling more confidence which is one of the reasons they sell more. That being said for home meintance I'd rather stick to my cabe operated systems.

[@bboyle09]

stopped racing ten years ago when disc brakes weren't a thing. got back into it over the pandemic, and now i'm building my first bike in a decade, with hydraulic disc brakes. I had no idea what I was getting into! I had to buy a "bleed kit," had to learn the difference between DOT fluid and mineral oil, had to buy a special cutter thing for the hoses....it all gets here this week and I'm building it next weeked. wish me luck but i'm already starting to regret not getting bl**dy rim brakes haha

[@henseleric]

Same here...I'm not looking back, though.

[@weichentechnikk8083]

For a hobby rider (2-3 rides per week, roughly 50-70km per ride) who uses alloy rims, a good quality rim brakes (ultegra, dura-ace, etc.) with good pads are just fine. It's a shame though that bike brands are forcing discs onto people. Gotta restart the market i guess.

[@ricardorusso1462]

I don’t feel that it’s just a matter of being “just fine”. I used to not be a very confident descender. During 5 years I had about 3 different pairs of alloy wheels, plus a set of carbon wheels. They never gave me the confidence I needed to descend fast in the dry and they were downright dangerous in the wet. I also used to be sceptical about disc brakes but now I have a disc brake bike with 28mm tires and I must tell you, I would rather go back to an aluminium frame on Sora with disc brakes than go to a top end carbon bike with dura ace rim brakes

[@weichentechnikk8083]

@@ricardorusso1462 Depends on what you need I guess. I rarely descend more than couple hundreds of vertical meters (70-80kph max). If I lived in Switzerland or Austria and had to descend for many kilometers, then I guess discs would make sense. Since that is not happening, at least not regularly, it's not needed for most days. Not to mention the ease of maintenance.

[@kakaisthecat]

Same! I am also a casual rider. Rim brakes are just fine and easier and cheaper to maintenance. I have a Tiagra and the stoping power is sufficient.

[@tallpaul1505]

Really would be nice if you did budget disc bike v budget rim bike especially when the cables are starting to stretch! The roadside maintenance on rim is far superior to disc in my opinion too from fixing a flat or readjusting the brakes! Great work as always 👍

[@Alex-to8es]

The thing is with this, is there really any point? What is your budget disc bike? 105? Firstly that isn't really budget vs other brands, and secondly the 105 disc group set is going to be the same technology as the Dura Ace as they are both new products to road bikes. The real thing to note here is that Rim brakes on Carbon wheels don't work as well as Rim Brakes on Aluminium wheels, your budget wheels, and good quality rim brakes and pads, will actually beat the rim brake version of the bike here. That is really where disc brakes win, if you ride a lot and at all in the rain, a carbon wheels braking surface no longer exists to be worn down, this means your wheels aren't being worn down by braking, all while it also means you can make more aerodynamic shapes for the wheels. That is where discs win, in an all around aero, climbing, descending, wet/dry, endurance, idea. But if you just want aero/light weight, rim brakes win, if you just want descending/wet disc brakes win. In the end for your amateur rider, it really doesn't matter, I think the advantage of disc brakes peak in that regards at emergency stopping on a wet commute, because that is a more real life situation than a mountain descent.

[@chris1275cc]

​@@Alex-to8es If you tested on flat bar you could test down to about £30 plus P&P for full hydro brakes. Tiagra is the lowest tier full hydro I believe, although if just comparing brakes then TRP Hylex . You might not be able to do Budget Vs Budget in a full on roadie scenario but it would be interesting to see what's so special about the breaking part of a £450-£1200 set of brifters VS some of the cheap by comparison Flat bar/ MTB setups available.

[@samtatge8299]

It’s brake. Replacing cables is cycling 101.

[@tallpaul1505]

@@Alex-to8es i get your point re 105 saying that there are loads of disc brakes that are budget and they are shocking! The stopping distance can be so bad it's deadly! The question should be is disc breaking for you and your budget! People (those new or 1st bike buyers) see disc brakes are the only way forward thinking they are all the same!

[@nokia6800]

how is fixing a flat on a rim brake bike any easier than a disc road bike? i see this as an argument all the time and i never understood it lol

[@themindgarage8938]

I wonder what would happen if you tested cheaper bikes at the same price point. I would not be surprised if a 105 rim setup outperformed a cheap cable disc setup.

[@MarkRiddellRacing]

105 is the cheapest you want to go for. Would be better to put a Dura Ace rim against 105 disc. I expect disc still wins.

[@LeoInterHyenaem]

I wouldn't be surprised, either. It is a given that any hydraulic system would toy with the most efficient cable setup without breaking into sweat. I've owned a cable-actuated disc groupset setup (among a multitude of sorts from cheap U-brakes to hydraulic Sram Force AXS disc setups). The stopping power of the cable-actuated disc brakes (mechanical Tiagra brifters with TRP Spyre callipers, as well as Hy-RD) is absolute rubbish. Their sole advantage over mechanical rim brakes - is that they do not lock the front wheel in a way that catapults the rider. Upon the other hand, hydraulic rim brakes (speaking from experience with multiple Magura HS33s I had on a variety of My bikes) effortlessly smoke any cable-actuated brake type - rim or disc. Their braking performance is virtually the same (or very, very close, at least) to that of the finest hydraulic disc brakes.

[@martinhudobivnik5895]

@@MarkRiddellRacing Tiagra is absolutely perfect and unless you're a serious rider (like top 10% on Strava) anything above it is just for status.

[@MarkRiddellRacing]

@@martinhudobivnik5895 or you can just afford it. I use 105 because that’s where things start to get good and it’s what I am willing to spend.

[@paulm9079]

Yeah, this 100%.

[@lenwilkinson8541]

I can compare two long, steep descents while riding Cycle North Carolina, both with rim brakes and carbon wheels. The dry one was scary as the heat buildup was so significant that I experienced brake fade and could barely stop before going over a guardrail on a hairpin curve. I had to wait 30 minutes for the rims to cool down before I ventured further. The wet descent was even more scary. I tiptoed down with the brakes on 100% of the time as when I gathered any speed it took 50 yards before I could feel safe. No such problem - dry or wet - with disc brakes.

[@TheJMT2012]

Yeah Carbon and rim not so great. Alloy and rim no problem though.

[@julianmorris9951]

Here’s my experience of a true emergency stop on a 2017 bianchi all road with hydraulic shimano 105 disc on schwalbe g1 40c at 55psi, I’m 70kg rider, I rolled away from traffic lights, got up to 20 mph when a car turned right, no indication just did it🙄 couldn’t swerve it because of car on corner of junction so here goes first emergency stop in 30 years, pulled front brake to the f**king bar, back wheel came off the ground and I went over the handlebars and landed on the bonnet of the now stopped car🙄 it impressed me that the front wheel never locked up!! I think that on a 25c tyre it would have locked up and washed out and that was down hill on dry road at 20mph, no injuries 😎 Just to add, you don’t have time to modulate your braking in a true life of death emergency stop.

[@coldforgedcowboy]

There is a reason, that mountain bike stems have been getting shorter and shorter. It's to reduce endo when going ful brake.

[@amandajane8227]

I often came off my bike when the back rose up behind me on hard braking. Had to learn the mtb stop and get my butt waaayyyy back over the rear wheel.

[@graememorrison333]

I've done pretty much the same on rim brakes. An emergency 'Ohjeezusflippinchrist' endo at the end of a descent when a car turned in front of me. Front wheel didn't skid, but the back end lifted up, I'd guess, by a couple of feet. The car just drove on....

[@julianmorris9951]

@@graememorrison333 even though I ended up on the bonnet it could have been worse, the car stopped at an angle in the middle of the lane, it it hadn’t stopped I would have face planted into the B pillar!!!! I was lucky really!!!! Thank god I was in the drops as well, always am on decent though, imagine trying a proper emergency stop on The hoods!!🤣 I had no chance of keeping the back end down either, I’d gone back as far as I could in a blink of an eye, I’m surprised the brake line didn’t pop though to be honest!!🤣

[@mikefule]

I have 3 bikes, 1 with disc, 2 with rim brakes. I often ride for an hour or more without touching my brakes. I typically go for weeks without needing to do an emergency stop. 5 seconds per km saving on a descent with multiple hairpins would translate into 0 seconds per km of typical riding on the flat, or gently rolling roads. 5 metres saved on an emergency stop from over 50 kph on a slight downhill? A much smaller difference at typical commuting speeds on the flat. There is no doubt that disc brakes work better as brakes, but the question is whether the extra cost, weight and maintenance is worth it for real world riding for most of us most of the time. The biggest difference I notice is when riding in deep water or mud: my disc brakes don't clog up in the same way as my rim brakes do.

[@stevenss8070]

I live in Switzerland. My commute and real world rides are as in the video, of course not always that long and steep… If you don’t need the advantages of a disc break, then rim breaks are the better option for you. It’s the same thing with all other parts on bikes: It’s an extreme individual question of what is the best thing for you.

[@olastokken7670]

I have Ultegra Disc brakes, full control with those👍😎 No more rim breaks for me😉

[@stevenqirkle]

Just got my first bike with disc brakes, and two months in I’ve kind of grown to hate them. So many more maintenance issues than rim breaks, and I’ve already worn through a set of pads in two months. Sure they are nicer to ride when everything is dialed perfectly. But I don’t want to be fiddling with my brakes all the time, I just want to ride my bike. And my overall enjoyment of owning and riding my bike is less with disc brakes. Maybe I’ll start to hate them less once I’ve gotten more comfortable with alignment, bleeding, etc. But for now I’m pretty annoyed that disc brakes seem to have taken over in road cycling.

[@CastleKnight7]

Look up some tutorial videos on how to align your disc brakes and you’ll never look back! 😊

[@johnyang1420]

My disk brakes constantly rub. Rim brakes win.

[@robertschwartz3675]

@@CastleKnight7 I have the same experience as the poster above where I almost do not want to ride as the disc brakes always need adjustment. To little tolerance for any movement and always rubbing. Hate the disc brakes.

[@larslosh5598]

sell it while its still worth something /:

[@densyoh]

just 2 months and you need to maintain them already? don’t u think they were not setup right in the first place?

[@durianriders]

Discs good for the wet so you can lock up your road race tire when the deer runs out on you and slide right into it or slide out and lose total control like they do in the World Tour now a lot more. Rim brake for best modulation for road race tires. Hydro disc are just too powerful for emergency braking. Look at all the extra crashes in the WT now. It is comical. Disc brake if you run 32mm plus tires at sub 60psi. Now your contact patch on your tire is OK to handle the power of hydro disc during emergency stops.

[@FellOverLaughing]

Intelligent analysis

[@100AlexDavie]

Can definitely see Ollie skidding on that emergency stop with the discs. That’ll be a nice flat spot and new tyre thanks…. Now add in the Adrenaline of a REAL emergency and the blokes hitting the deck

[@tinglydingle]

@@100AlexDavie you can clearly see him skid on the rim brakes too

[@tinglydingle]

Yeah when I raced on the road I wasn't massively impressed with disc brakes, admittedly that was 8 years ago and tech has advanced since then. On my gravel bike however, they've saved me from crashing at least twice!

[@hardcheese]

shocking i know but this is a totally rigged test anyway. What about climbing on a disc bike? What about warped discs after a big decent? What about using metal braking surface with the direct mount brakes? All of these things would swing it back to rim brakes

[@gokaygs]

Best point of the video is touching upon skill level: if you are good at descending then you are only braking as little as necessary and in a very calculated manner. If disc brakes make you a better descender then you most likely can get a lot better at descending to begin with! In real world application discs are not faster on descends just like fast deep dish wheels are likely to be slower than slow wheels with no aero profile. Yesterday we dropped from 7000 feet elevation to about 1000 feet, my friend's discs started rubbing after we came to a casual stop to dismount and go under a gate before the real descent began, last thing I need on my mind before bombing down is discs rubbing when I'm about to lean the bike thru corners. I was on rim brakes with shallow aluminum wheels, Campy Shamals, because that's the gear you whould use when you are going and down mountains all day. My two friends on disc brakes and carbon wheels 50mm and 65mm, soon after we gained speed their front wheels started catching the canyon winds and the twitchiness sapped their handling and confidence. I waited around 2 minutes for them at the bottom of a 15 minute descent. So TLDR the point is, disc brakes are not the answer for or gateway to better descending, skills and technique are what makes a good descender. AND Nibali would rather descend on rims then discs, yes he knows better.

[@henseleric]

If I can brake later, before a curve, I will cumulatively descend faster, on a technical descent. This is demonstrable with discs -as in this clip. Nibali would agree with me. The argument remains the weight going up.

[@gokaygs]

@@henseleric technically on paper It would sound so but not in real life. If you say you can keep your average speed higher over a tight technical descent by braking later but harsher into corners(I doubt you ever tried doing that btw) then you will eventually lock up a wheel coming in too hot to a corner, lose control and fly off the ridge. This clip does not demonstrate anything about descending/braking but shills discs with a biased ‘test’. If what you said was actually true then we’d see all the pro races consistently breaking downhill segment time records each year with improving disc technology, however in reality we see more pros power sliding in corners.

[@TheNovaNorm]

In the dry, best to worst for me is hydraulic disc, rim (105), cable disc (tektro). Equipment quality plays a big part too. Thanks for the video.

[@da14a49]

Cable discs shouldn't exist. Worse or identical power as good rim brakes while being way harder to maintain???

[@suspiciousstew1169]

@@da14a49they look cool tho

[@jpmorgen5726]

I have to laugh about this "controversy"! The very first time I rode my new bike with hydraulic disc brakes, went into a downhill, off camber corner on a wet road, my dream had come true, safe, strong, predictable brakes!!

[@kieronjohnson8834]

V-brakes are/were safe, strong and predictable enough to keep me out of hospital for the 15 years I used them as a regular mountain biker. Disc brakes are generally better but that doesn't invalidate how good v-brakes were for the average MTB user. Gold is more valuable than silver, does that render silver worthless?

[@neilrobinson7965]

For general day to day dry riding and training for me in Switzerland, i am perfectly happy with using rim brakes. This includes a lot of descending of course. In the wet, discs are better but then I don’t ride in the wet. Rim brakes are way cheaper to maintain too. I find pad and disk rotor life very short compared to rim brake pads. Disk pads last me 1500km and rotors about 2500km. This is in the mountain areas with lots of descents. Compare that with rim brake pads where i am getting 20’000km out of my Swissstop blue pads. Yes i ride a lot.

[@Bluesman2509]

Yes I noticed that Swisstop pads, especially the carbon ones, last many thousands of kms. I don't bother with discs!

[@gcntech]

Thanks for commenting Neil - 'better' is of course objective and having brakes you're comfortable riding is the main thing!

[@HansBaumeister]

About 2 years after getting my (mountain) bike (in 1998!) I switched from the installed V-Brake system to Magura hydraulic rim brakes. The difference was eye-opening and worth every cent. I still ride that bike and the brakes still work perfectly. Doing a mechanical rim vs. hydraulic disc brake test is already an unfair advantage to the disc brakes that may very well have made all the difference. With hydraulics, you have a much better feel for when the brake is about to lock up and can (and will) modulate better.

[@dafiltafish]

I would suggest a new test with metal rims to see if you get the same results.

[@runningwithshemp]

Ditto. Rim brakes with an alloy rim, blue Swiss Stop plus compressional housing work just fine. If it's wet out I'll just use my CX bike

[@yutehube4468]

The best brakes I ever used were Dura-Ace 7800 rim brakes, with Kool-Stop salmon brake pads. Absolutely incredible. I could never afford the "20% more powerful" 7900 brakes but the 7800 were already powerful enough. I've never tried high-end hydraulic discs, maybe those are better I don't know, but those 7800 rim brakes... they were just special. Confidence building, I could brake a lot later before cornering. You don't realize why this equipment is the top of the range until you try it and think "wow". 😎

[@oefzdegoeggl]

Using both. For me, discs are better in braking. Still I use (mechanical) rim brakes on some builds. Main reason for that is that they will not cause any trouble if you put the bike into a car ... hydraulich systems don't like that too much. So all my hydraulic disc bikes are used locally only. Yeah, there's be an option to use mechanical disks but I don't find them any good. Most stupid possible thing would the opposite then, hydraulich rims. That makes no sense at all to me, combining all possible drawbacks.

[@jamesmckenzie3532]

I owned a disc brake bike for eight years. Never once did I have an issue with air in the brake lines. The one thing you should NEVER do with a hydraulic system is to hang it upside down as the fluid will drain down and air will bubble in. This may take a long time though.

[@davekendall1338]

After switching, I'll never go back to rim brakes. After spending a month or two riding with disc brakes and then switching back to rim brakes, you realize how much more control and confidence disc brakes provide in all riding conditions.

[@AgentSmith16]

What do you think the reason is for the difference between this result, and the video that GCN released about 4 years ago where Matt and Si compared stopping distances? Their conclusion was that in the dry, the distances were essentially identical. My hypothesis would be something like "operator skill". Matt/Si's test was done on the flat, hence possibly allowing the rear wheel a bit more grip because there is more weight on it. In this video's rim brake test, Ollie locked the back wheel up for almost 80% of that stopping distance - skidding drastically reduces the rate you slow down. The disc test was much smoother. Perhaps that's a win for disc brakes being easier to operate (fair enough), but we would need to admit that's not an inherent flaw in the rim system, just a tradeoff. Thoughts and criticisms?

[@lorenzodestefano4043]

I run a 9 colli with my xr4 rim brake, 4 hours under the rain, 180 km, elite drive wheels tubeless and campagnolo pads, finished in a decent time (5hr 15) not a problem whatsoever.

[@yijuntey]

i love how i always watch these videos as if i can even afford a new bike any time soon

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

Then stop watching .

[@larslosh5598]

@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed what an amazingly stupid comment

[@DG-tf9rp]

Brakes are used for Speed Control- Traction Control. If I had carbon wheels I would NOT use Rim Brake. I would use disc brake. I have Alloy Rim Brake and have no problem controlling my speed on descents in the dry. When it is wet, trying to go faster is not always the smartest thing to do. Everybody has to slow down in the wet. Tires is what gives you traction.

[@jabelvik]

Braking on disc might be better in some conditions. Both are sufficient for most riding. But disc brakes will turn bad on you at the most inconvenient time, typically when travelling or in a remote location with limited access to tools and spares. I ride both disc and rim. Rim brakes are practically maintenance free, disc brakes starts to rub and get contaminated very easily. For that reason i tend to ride rim most of the time.

[@mihalis1010]

Then you haven't set them up properly. Disc brakes on my road bike have had a quick bleed once in the past 2 years, and I've never had a problem with them. Learn to set the equipment up before blaming it.

[@neilrobinson7965]

@@mihalis1010 until you take them on a long, steep descent where you have to brake a lot and then your shimamo ice tec rotors get hot and warp. Then you have permanent brake rub. Only solution is to replace the rotor. There are still some issues to resolve with road disc systems unfortunately. And we are not even mentioning very short pad and rotor life.

[@jabelvik]

@@mihalis1010 So you say that you never had the slightest ting-ting-ting after a hard descent, or the slightest howl in the wet, or warped rotors? I am not saying rim brakes are perfect, just more predictable for me when I travel or go for long rides without a bag of tools. I inspect the pads, the rims and the caliper action, that's it. Disc brakes can work nicely for 1000s of km. But you cannot really predict when they need a service.

[@neilrobinson7965]

@D. W. they shouldn’t warp due to thermal stress in the first place! Bad design from shimano. I notice that the latest shimano dura ace rotors have dispensed with the aluminium and steel sandwich construction. I threw mine away because they were already below the minimum thickness after only 2300km. A very expensive business! I decided to go for cheaper ones this time around.

[@mihalis1010]

@@jabelvik sure, I hear it for about 20 meters until the rotor cools and it's back to normal again.

Well, but the tyres are drifting in both cases, so I can guess that the difference has some todo with the tyres itself, not the type of brake.

[@srpelissier]

In my experience disks are way much more confidence inspiring, no doubt, and I don´t even factor in such conditions as being in the mountains. The results are totally clear cut when it comes to breaking performances. But I get less work maintaining rim brakes which are absolutely worry free while my disc brakes (they were mechanical tbh) were more fiddly. The weight difference, depending on the series used would probably be negligible for my use. So yeah, nowadays, with the latest techs on a Pinarello in the alps: disks for sure, no surprise. A more sensible question might be "Brakes vs no brakes"; idk.

[@neilrobinson7965]

To be honest, i would take my rim braked bike to the Alps for road riding. Last time i was in the Alps i did a very hilly gravel ride with long and steep (road) descents. A single ride wore through a set of pads by about 50% and my ice tec ultegra front rotor warped due to the heat of the final very steep road descent and i then had permanent rub. Only solution was to replace the rotor. Same thing happened to my mate who was with me. Rim brakes are just much less hassle and expense!

[@srpelissier]

@@neilrobinson7965 it was raining all of 3 hours of todayś trip, was realizing my rim brakes could slow me down, but stop me? not really, my mindset was to not get into an accident all the way, luckily weather was so bad there was barely anyone on the road, saw a couple of deers though, and many snails :)

[@nerigarcia7116]

I was one who thought disc brakes were unnecessary and just something for the elite racers but when I got a deal on a disc brake bike and put it through its paces I did find the discs brakes to outperform my rim brake bike. Just on stopping power alone it was better but the feel and modulation through turns makes it that much more fine tuned. They both do the job but I would just put the disc brakes in a category of a more fine tuned machine. I still love riding my rim brake bikes but on the technical stuff or in bunches I prefer the discs. From thinking disc brakes were frivolous, I now have 3 disc brake bikes. They're more work to set up and I didn't like the look of them at first (I'm getting used to them now), but I will probably continue with discs moving forward. I'll always keep a rim brake in the collection but it's more like me also having a vintage 80s bike, more nostalgia than performance.

[@TheCountrySteve]

I'm on disc brakes nowadays and I, living in the UK, the increased sense of safety in the wet is the reason I would choose them again in future but, as someone who likes to ride fast(ish) but doesn't race and tries to stay well within my limits, I think the annoyance factor of discs is a big issue. My drive is 19% so I'm treated to that 'ting ting ting' sound every time I head out on a ride. Any descent, there's noise. Remove the front wheel and put back in, it's often there. Stand up on a climb, it's there. I have literally tried every trick in the book to stop it. Once this issue is resolved (and I'm led to believe the new Shimano brakes are definitely an improvement), I think it really will be game over for rim brakes

[@Green__one]

I have yet to try hydraulic disc brakes, but I can tell you with the cable pull disc brakes that I've tried, and the cable pull hydraulic discs that I have tried, three different sets of brakes on two different bikes, they are all abysmal. None are anywhere close to the performance of even the cheapest rim brakes available. Now it is possible that the hydraulics make the difference. But if that's the case, what we are really seeing is a difference measured in very high dollar figures. As you then start comparing the cheapest possible brakeing system, to the most expensive.

[@jasonyoung1898]

Interestingly tho, Cheap rim brakes are alot better when compared to cheap disc brakes. When using top of the line disc brakes as you are the results could only go one way

[@admirale3000]

The braking tests that you have done mean nothing because if you brake too hard on disk or rim you make a sun or you skid, so it is rather the grip that is tested

[@cosinus_square]

The rim brake bike had a handicap from the start, carbon rims. Even if you forget the tyre difference. Like you admitted yourself, aluminium wheels would have changed the scores. Having alloy wheels would have made the 2 bikes possibly weigh the same as well. I understand you can't get a hold of many components atm but alloy rim brake wheels is not one if them.

[@mihalis1010]

Having to have alloy wheel for the rim brakes to actually work properly negates the weight benefit people always seem to think rim brakes have though. Just get disc brakes and ride wheels from any damn material you want.

[@cosinus_square]

@@mihalis1010 carbon rims are not mandatory by any means, more so when comparing optimum braking properties when carbon is proven underperforming in that category. Considering carbon wheels only have weight playing in their favour, there's more to rim brakes than just weight. Like I stated, aluminium wheels would actually make the rim bike heavier which would be on point with the disc equipped bike. I'm only asking for a fair test, I'm not asking them to declare rim brakes as the winner.

[@AnarchoKapital]

You can’t built aluminum rims as deep as carbon. Deep is aero and aero is more important than weight. So…

[@cosinus_square]

@@AnarchoKapital what could possibly stop me from building another deep alloy wheelset?

[@johnng2277]

Having to use “alloy rim wheels” just to stop, should already demonstrate how stupid a system rim brakes are. Disc brakes stop regardless of your wheel material, rotor size or material. Plus, it also stops in a shorter distance.

[@gearmonkey]

my move to no regrets disc brakes goes like this: gotta go fast so move to mid depth carbon rims. works, love em, braking in wet is sketchy as all hell though. Next road bike move to disc brakes and honestly I think they are better in most situations. I strongly suspect in say a decade rim brakes will be only in specialist applications (like hill climbing) or very low end bikes. for most people most of the time, especially if they are carbon rim curious (and if you ride 30kph+ with any kind of frequency, you should be, they are fun), disc brakes are just better.

[@Seppster58]

Very informative and entertaining. I personally like the disc brakes, but in the past I used rim brakes. Pads are easier to maintain on the rim, but at the end of the day, it is rim brakes for me. Love these Ollie videos!!

[@ivanwinter6740]

Actually disc pads are incredibly easy to change

[@gileee]

​@@ivanwinter6740 I don't have to take the wheel of my bike to change my rim break pads. In fact, I just need a single wrench. I can also take my wheel off and put it back on in a second without worrying about alignment and bending a disc. There's dozens of versions of disc break pads and they're mostly not cross compatible. All of these things are annoying. Not mentioning that one pair of the cheapest disc break pads cost more than a complete set of cheap v-breaks that come with pads.

[@fillmored6905]

Looks like you missed out one major factor in the comparison. i.e. the weight advantage on a Rim brake assembly vs a Disc brake assembly.

[@caerffili_callin]

For me one of the original attractions of the bicycle was it’s simplicity and ease of maintenance, now with the introduction of things such as hydraulic disk brakes and internal hose/cable routing things have moved to unnecessary complexity and expense. I can stop just fine on my rim brakes on the road so will not be changing, but good luck to those that want the latest fashion.

[@twatts4436]

Whilst i understand your thoughts, at least in my experience (with two exceptions) I've found that discs are fit and forget. First exception: Bleeding. They need bleeding annually, but that's not difficult - just needs tools. Second: bent rotors after a crash. This led to constant rub until I straightened out the rotor. I'll admit that was annoying! You do get occasional noise from the caliper in winter if some mud gets in there, but that washes out. Mechanical disc is terrible and needs constant fettling.

[@slowcyclist4324]

A disc brake is very simple to maintain, as simple as it was on rim brakes. 1) throw the bike at the mechanic 2) have a cup of coffee and read a book 3) pick it up in an hour to two. It’s been a decade of cycling, and it’s modern developments have hardly made bike maintenance any worse. In fact, it’s actually made it easier. Take tubeless for instance; I used to have to toss my bike to the shop to replace the tube whenever I got a puncture. With tubeless, I can’t even remember that last time I’ve had a puncture.

[@williamsmith1453]

I believe Ollie has a great piont. Racing strategies may dictate rim vs disc. I don't think rim brakes will go away. In fact, as disc popularity plateau, rim brakes may regain a little ground. For the road bike, there will always be a need. Rim brakes are cheap and still very effective for town-bike and other low speed bikes. Disc brake will be the profomance and race bikes. Unless, Rim brakes as Ollie states strategically better.

[@okantichrist]

Skidding when you’ve locked your disc brakes up isn’t clever either especially on a group ride.

[@7mpowerd]

Both rim and disk can lock up.

[@DaveCM]

Moot argument when people argue against disc brakes by saying, "but you can lock up rim brakes."

[@superjimnz]

Rim brakes on carbon brake surfaces was always a terrible hack/compromise. Disc brakes are massively superior to rim brakes in every practical sense. I have Dura-Ace rim brakes on my old bike (2016) and Ultegra discs on newer bike (2019) and though they both work, the discs give so much better feel/power. I liken the argument to people who thought vinyl was better than CD, or those who thought they could out-brake ABS.

[@marzocchi705]

Discs are better in every scenario. Who ever would have thought that...

[@thomastrampf6196]

Outstanding on all fronts. Thank you for taking the time to produce these extremely well put together videos....

[@yogicycle1]

Performance aside - the debate will continue ad nauseam . It’s the high cost to repair discs and expertise required. This will be tough for those on tight budgets. I hope manufacturers try to stop the push of discs at the lower cost bikes, to allow cycling to continue for everyone. I now recommend high quality 2nd hand rim brake bikes to anyone steadying out.

[@mihalis1010]

High cost? Expertise required? What?? Why do people seem to think discs are so complicated?

[@alexmichl3137]

@@mihalis1010 They are compicated for people without proper tools. Plus if you buy 1300 euro bike you dont really need 10 sec faster descents. You much rather have bike that you dont need to service every 3 months because the cheap rotor bent or the cheap pads are gone again. Plus every time you take your wheel off you need to be extra careful not to bump in the brakes, coz you otherwise need to center them again, the list just goes on and on, with only benefit being little bit more responsive brakes and minor braking power advantage.

[@johnng2277]

If budget is an issue, maybe consider a different sport? Really. Why should we take a halt progress in a sport just because some folks are too poor to afford it? There’s football for them if they can’t do that. 14 of them can share one ball.

[@yogicycle1]

@@johnng2277 😂

[@yogicycle1]

@@johnng2277 22 surely !

[@Squirlybumrush]

I've gotta say... I love my disc brakes! For those of us that don't get paid to win races (as was stated) its a win win (maybe not in races, just in life), insignificant weight penalty up hill, faster, funner safer down hill. One other this to consider is that disc brakes perhaps offer more tire clearance allowing a rider to run wider tires, potentially reducing rolling resistance. Though possibly adding even more weight lower RR may cancel out the weight penalty. I was surprised to hear that the added weight for discs was so much, but I'm going to trust as I don't really feel like going down that rabbit hole myself.

[@lufo5]

So.. we have many guys here still using cars or motorbikes with only drum brakes... Aaah! Love the old school!🤣

[@valk5045]

Motor bike 200kg 100hp, racing bike 7kg and less than 1hp. Same thing sure.

[@lufo5]

@@valk5045 so Jeremy Clarkson is wrong. Less poweeeerr!🤣

[@ivarbrouwer197]

The one thing not tested here is heat dissipation: Carbon Rims + Rim brakes on a long steep hot decent could deform your wheels. (Maybe this is a thing of the past?) Disc Brakes on a long steep decent could overheat the discs, leaving you with no braking power until cooled down, and I’m not sure that’s fully solved. (Seeing Chris’s Froome’s comments on Discs) For now, I’m still getting used to disc brakes, and I tend to grab too much brake on disc brakes: there’s a certain amount of modulation in the expected brake behavior that I don’t quite feel yet with disc brakes.

[@richdyer2000]

From mountain biking experience, you only lose power on long descents if you haven’t bled the system in a while. Any air or water in fluid near the callipers will expand making them feel spongy or even non existent. Mountain bikes have much bigger rotors for dissipation, but I’m talking about portes du soleil type of riding before seeing anything, so reckon you’d have to be very heavy and a very nervous descender on a long alpine descent to experience problems on a road bike.

[@stevek8829]

This may not be an exhaustive scientific study, but neither was Galileo's cannonball demonstration. They both illustrate their points rather well. I'm surprised at the result as I've assumed tire traction to be the limiter in single stop performance. Thanks OB for risking life and limb and freezing for science. Next: effects of hypothermia on cyclists' braking performance.

[@woutervanderdoes5163]

It might well have been here. Rim brake bike used less grippy tyres on a narrower rim (cinturato vs p zero, 19 mm internal vs 21 mm) which probably accounted for a considerable amount in the difference in stopping distance...

[@gcntech]

Thanks Steve!

[@alexmichl3137]

@@woutervanderdoes5163 Yea i was thinking about that too, he was basically sliding on both bikes the whole time so the additional braking power should not make any difference. Plus it can be due to the less responsivness of the rim brakes, so he was just putting full power in the brakes much later.

[@colin7898]

Disc brakes are good but the main reason I stopped using them and went back to rims is adequately demonstrated at 7:21 to 7:23. It’s so annoying everytime you brake no matter how much you try and clean them.

[@matube73]

Durianrider might have an opinion about this. 🤔

[@WORLDIMPACT]

I'm waiting for that also😂

[@fernandodisola6675]

Disk for dirt, Rim for road.....simple no ifs or buts

[@chrisjames1924]

Wow, he’s still a thing is he? Unsubbed years ago.

[@The2808erik]

@@chrisjames1924 Too much truth.

[@fiddleronthebike]

one of the arguments for discs is that they don't destroy rims... but in reality, in more than 40 years of cycling I NEVER have worn out one single rim through braking. The only two ways I have ruined rims are: 1. in accidents, 2. due to spoke holes giving up against the stress - that happened two times to me, despite being a rather light guy (70 kg actually); and btw. I have destroyed some hubs this way as well (not to speak the spokes snapped...). Now the force applied through disc brakes to the spokes and spoke holes is way way higher than what I can apply through my pedals - so discs spare ware where it doesn't matter and max out ware out it does matter. That's an argument for me to stay with rim brakes as long as possible. Higher brake power? May be - but my high end rim brakes deliver more than enough, I can block the wheels in any condition and the limit is tire-tarmac contact, not brake power. Less hand power needed? May be - but I'm not as weak as to feel the need. Better modulation? This point is valid, better modulation is always worth it! But if you have top end brakes (Campa Record and Super Record in my case) and good brake pads the difference is smaller than most people think, and you pay for that not only with weight (and in my case much much money, because I had to replaces all my bikes) but also with much more maintenance time and complexity. Conclusion: disc brakes have their advantages, yes; rim brakes also have their advantages; and you can live very well with both of them, so I will stick to what I have as long as the bike industry is delivering spare parts (brake pads, cables and rims)

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

Rim brakes for road .

[@henrikerdland578]

Another thing is that by switching to disc brakes I now only wear out a set of disc instead of wearing out my experience carbon wheels.

[@MilanSmore]

True of course but it does take a loooong time for someone to wear out the carbon rims if ever

[@henrikerdland578]

@@MilanSmore It took me about 20000 - 25000 km to wear down my carbon rims. I have done about 11000 km on my disc rotors and they are still not worn down.

[@MilanSmore]

@@henrikerdland578 that's unusually quick but good 4 you

[@mnveloguy]

What would really interest me would be how much sustained braking each could handle before failure, especially the potential for rim brakes to overheat the rims and cause a blowout. I did touring with some steep descents last summer in the Italian alps. Normally is use a rim brake bike, but the bike I used last summer had rim brakes. I had some pretty hot rims. The last thing I wanted on a descent was a blown tire at 20+mph. For touring, I just don’t have much faith in rim brakes. The Greta thing about bikes is you have the option for whatever braking system works best for you.

[@rhobson]

Comparing apples-to-apples, you have a much bigger surface area to heat and to cool with rim brakes vs with a disc brake setup. And seeing that brake fade is a very real scenario due to the small surface are of both the discs and the small pads on a disc brake setup, the rim brake actually has less potential for issues here.

[@mihalis1010]

​@@rhobson your logic doesn't follow. The epoxy resin used in carbon wheels is not thermally conductive. Regardless of the surface area, rim brakes will heat up and fail faster. Brake fade is not that big of an issue.

[@rhobson]

@@mihalis1010 Sorry, my comment is based on my "bubble", from which I know only two person regularly running carbon wheels... So when I say rim brakes, I do mean Alu wheels as well. Additionally, if the resin used in carbon wheels isn't thermally conductive, that means the risk of a blow-out with rim brakes due to heat is inexistent? If so, even more advantages to rim brakes vs disc brakes. I think Wilco Kelderman will agree with me after the recent Giro D'Italia fiasco... :)

[@gregvassilakos]

It would have been interesting to evaluate the wear on the brake pads for each of those downhill runs. How many such runs could you do on the rim brake bike before it was necessary to replace the brake pads?

[@GordoGambler]

My SA XL-FDD drum pads have 30,000 miles. LOL. Tour bike is 290 lbs GVW.

[@gregvassilakos]

@@GordoGambler I have a tandem with rim brakes pus a drum brake on the rear. The drum brake is activated by a ratcheting lever on the stoker's handlebars. The idea is to use the drum brake as a drag brake on long downhills. My one complaint with the drum brake is that the stoker (my wife) panics and activates it whenever our speed exceeds about 20 mph.

[@mrichards55]

Haven’t read the comments yet, but no doubt there’s a lot of guys with grey beards saying they’ve used rim brakes on their steel bikes all their lives and there’s nothing wrong with them?

[@robertmuckle2985]

I'd love to see a comparison (overtime) of spoke stressing on rim vs disc...cause braking at the disc (hub) is putting incredible stresses on the spokes as they struggle to decelerate a wheel that doesn't want to slow. Not the case with rim brakes that are easily slowing the outer rotation of the wheel, causing far less stresses.🤔

[@frankficarrotta9683]

Robert, Just because a disc brake can stop a wheel quicker than a rim brake doesn’t mean that it has to. The speed that the wheel decelerates is determined by the force put on the wheels to stop. Modulation determines how much energy is used to stop, and there is really no debate on that topic. Disc breaks are the clear winner when it comes to modulation. As for stressing the wheel in general a breaking system that actually applies pressure to the wheel itself as in rim brakes is more likely to stress the wheels than using a disc.

[@rajagoswami277]

this is the most imp comment for comparison

[@iang7007]

Really good to know that difference in stopping distance. thanks :)

[@TheNeelonRokk]

Wow, finally a GCN video on the rim/disc brake topic. /s Both work fine. I have both, one doesn't eat my rims, the other is less noisy when wet. Both work and both have pros and cons. It's time to bury this horse. Edit: also, with discs I can easily fit 30-32 mm tires (Endurance bike), which is all the reason I need for discs personally.

[@russellspeight5175]

Yep, its beyond boring now.

[@lesliereissner4711]

This is a serious flogging of a dead horse.

[@paulhope7298]

Really enjoyed this video - obviously there is more "science" to debate and tyres to consider etc, but overall great job with the vid and the open, fun and honest vibe! Spot on.

[@reoencarcelado5904]

@ the question [& the title of the video] "Rim Brakes versus Disc Brakes: Which really are better?": It all depends on the situation / what you're gonna use 'em for. It's like saying "briefs vs boxer-briefs". They're two different things that serve two-different-ways-of-doing-it, for the same thing. (ie. physically-supporting the man's - ahem - "equipment"). (In the case of Rim-brakes vs Disc-brakes", they both brake-the-bike, but they do it in different ways. They both serve the same purpose but they do it in different ways). Edit / P.S. In a "traditional geometry" road-bike, I'll have regular-ol'/good-ol'-fashioned rim-brakes. In a "aerodynamic geometry" road-bike, I'll have mineral-oil hydraulic disc-brakes.

[@FlowJunkie65]

Good video, Ollie - thank you and the film crew. Would your next vid compare hydraulic disc to mechanical disc brakes? I have had mountain bikes with both types, and aside from better modulation on the disc type, I didn't feel that there was much, if any, power differential between the 2. What has your and/or GCN's experience been between hydraulic vs. mechanical disc brakes on road bikes?

[@joules531]

It’s always an interesting comparison, but it’s important to consider the fact that a disc bike is commonly less aero than a rim brake, and might well have rubbing discs to slow the rider even further. And if successive braking on colls causes warped discs, or you’re following a disc equipped rider on a sportive, who causes a crash due to skidding, then timings just go out of the window. I would like you guys to compare heat dissipation, between discs and rim brakes. I think many viewers would be shocked at the fragility of disc brakes on road bikes.

[@pe3117]

Less aero? I thinks they are 0,0000001% less aero 😅 And my 3 bikes, gravel/road/MTB never had disc touching the pads One more thing…the entire industry uses disc brakes and you talk about the fragility???? 🤌🤌🤣🤣

[@joules531]

@@pe3117 thanks for providing my household with some amusement. We loved your “calculation” 😎 You’ve obviously not seen last year’s GCN video that show aero losses of 13 watts at 40kph, between a rim braked road bike and a disc equipped road bike. But perhaps you could share with us how you derived you apparently revelatory figure, which you appear to have picked out of thin air. If the discs on your bikes have “never” rubbed then I’m sure that pro team mechanics will want to know your secret, because everyone has problems with rubbing discs from time to time. Your Middle name isn’t Pinocchio by any chance? And when it comes to fragility, there’s something you need to know about the bike industry. Their aim is to make money, not to provide long lasting components that last so long that they go out of business. That is why discs are being pushed, because it means that gullible customers will have to regularly buy pads and discs, instead of a pair of brake blocks every once in a while. But if you’re genuinely interested in engineering, rather than being a troll, there’s plenty of information out there that will show you, so long as you actually want to know, that heat build up, using road bike discs, can be excessive, sometimes leading to structural failure. Have a nice day 😉

[@pe3117]

@@joules531 too long to read 😅😅😅

[@joules531]

@@pe3117 you might have difficulty reading, but other people won’t have that problem. Thankyou once again for your amusing comments 😉

[@pe3117]

@@joules531 🥱😴

[@chrismccannIRL]

No matter what your “preference” is it’s pretty straight forward. Disc brakes are better in every single situation for braking. You can start to factor other things in like maintenance or aerodynamics but ultimately brakes are necessity to stop and stopping quickly is the key. Discs brakes every time for me despite not looking as nice or being heavier. The modulation you get for small braking adjustments with hydraulic fluid is also very nice versus rim cable brakes

[@neilrobinson7965]

Funnily enough, i find my rim braked road bike to have better modulation and control on descents than my hydraulic disc braked bike. Much more confidence inspiring when scrubbing off speed for a fast corner knowing that you arent going to suddenly lock up the back wheel and lose control. For me, the hairy moments when braking on descents have only been on my disc braked bike. Maybe i am clueless with no bike handling skills but i do i live in Switzerland and climb/descend over 100,000 metres a year so do have some experience to fall back on. For my gravel bike: discs every time please. But it is a different kind of riding.

[@chrismccannIRL]

@@neilrobinson7965 looking at my elevation stats on Strava and I’m just under 50,000 for the year to date. I live in Ireland and climb and descend a lot too. I took my dogma F8 out recently with DT Swiss Arc1100 rims and Swisstop Evo pads and it’s not even close to my S works Tarmac with AXS red disc brakes. It’s a shame as I love the dogma but the lack of disc brakes is something that I now struggle with. I gravel and mountain bike too and for me the term modulation means control over the finest of adjustment for braking and hydraulic disc brakes give a lot more modulation than rim.

[@neilrobinson7965]

@@chrismccannIRL I haven’t ridden a Sram disc setup or a rim brake setup with carbon rims so don’t know what these are like. For what it is worth, I use alloy DTSwiss PR1400 Dicut OXIC wheels with Swissstop blue pads. I think the braking with this setup is very good. It also has to be said that i only ride in dry weather which could be a bit limiting in Ireland! If i need to ride in the wet, i will take my disc brake bike.

[@Rekmeyata]

Weird, I have disk brakes on my touring bike with TRD brakes and I've gone about 5,000 miles on the bike since getting it 4 years ago, and the original pads are still on it! And when touring I encounter rain too. I have heard of people getting very short life out of pads, not sure why unless they're riding with mud splattering all over their rotors.

[@WaseemKhan-id4qf]

As we are talking about budget here... Let me tell you what the real budget looks like. 1. My rim brakes setup comes at 250rs with the brakepads (3.5$) approximately. The issue I came across here was not the braking power but the rain and the wearing of rims(4$ for each new rim) and i ride 26inch still i had to go through truing my wheel almost every week because of the roads we have in India and also the way i use them. So i was pissed off with truing the wheel and the wearing off so i thought why not go for discs instead. 2. Disc set-up (calipers and rotor) costs around 4$ (300INR) and it's pretty cool how i don't have to worry about truing me wheel, I'm still using the wornout old rim, braking power is fine compared to rim brakes, i also ride more when it rains so discs are way better that time brakes. Now coming to aero.. trust me i ride flat bar hybrid with 1.95x26t wheels so being aero isn't my core Idea of riding. I ride around 100kms every alternate day so I'm fine with the rear set-up as disc and front set-up as rim brakes for now and works well to my daily riding. I service my bike by my own so I'm my own mechanic so if i have to rate rim to disc brakes as a rider and mechanic I believe it's what you feel is good for you. Ride, test and decide what you think is better for you. There are many disc brakes which are aero now in the market and there are many rim brakes which might be more reliable in rains. It's all like pataeto- patato at the end.

[@unpaidintern5331]

Would have been nice to include some other key differences between the two to paint a more complete picture. There is things like added maintenance cost for disc brakes with pads and rotors going well beyond 60€ per wheel for an ultegra equipped bike. However this will not degrade the integrity of your precious wheelset, so in the long run disc brakes might still be the cheaper option to maintain depending on your riding conditions/style. On the other hand rim brakes are much less of a faff to deal with in maintenance. Just replace the pads and you should be good (mostly). With disc brakes however, especially the mechanical ones there is a lot more to do when changing/servicing them. In addition to that there might also be extra tools required. I don't think the weight thing is that much of a deal to be perfectly honest. A modern disc brake setup even with hydraulics isn't that much heavier that it would amount to anything beyond 150-200gr. It is true though, that in the cheaper end of the spectrum, especially with mechanical disc brakes they tend to be a lot heavier, but with the wide spread of 105 (groupset of the people) and the rising numbers of ultegra (and sram equivalent) bikes on the road, which tend to be a lot lighter, i don't think that it makes more difference than what kind of sandwich you ate before the ride or that one extra coffee. Also, where there is climbing, there is descending and a little extra weight helps to speed up, so rims would only really play that advantage if you were climbing and then taking the train down the mountain instead of descending. Which you might wanna do regarding that braking performance... :D Jokes aside I think this would have been an opportunity to make a really comprehensive and broad comparison of the two aside from the usual boring (although this video was fun to watch) head to head 'who brakes better' video. It is true though, that these are brakes, so the question of which system brakes more consistent/stronger is a viable one. There are a lot of differences between the two off and on the bike to consider though before saying sth is 'better'.

[@chris1275cc]

I've found though if you are forced to go with an off brand/budget option you get far less of a decrease in performance with Disc than with rim. I had trouble getting "reputable" pads at price I was willing to pay for my SRAM rival during the second lockdown, so I threw on some Clarks pads and rotors (didn't want the cheap pads to contaminate my "good" rotors) and yeah there was a decrease in performance, mostly in modulation/consistency more than raw power, but it wasn't enough to make me reach for the tools the second I got my oily mitts on some Swisstops, in fact I ran them until the front pads wore out.

[@The2808erik]

I've never worn out a braking surface on a rim, my Reynolds Assault carbon wheel set has seen well above 60000 km. Even on my commuter road bike which gets ridden constantly in wet and rainy conditions, I've only ever seen a worn out carbon rim by noobs who use alloypads for carbon rims. Pad are cheap as fuck and they last quite a while. Rimbrakes are much cheaper to upkeep, maintain and have generally less faff involved. Disc Brakes are great on my mountainbike and gravel bike, but I do not want or need them on my road bike.

[@MikesToob]

I live in San Francisco, so lots of hills and breaking. My commuter bike (my lock up) has disc brakes, while my road bike has rim brakes. I greatly prefer the rim brakes, largely because they’re quiet and the performance difference doesn’t affect me too much. I think the disc brakes have better performance, but I find myself cleaning and adjusting them much more often to keep their noise down and the performance up. I feel that disc brakes are much more high maintenance.

[@billsomerset238]

Can't wait to hear what Fotos has to say about this. I'm sure he'll have an excuse

[@JohnnySantoDomingo]

Lmao

[@jymtym]

I can’t believe Ollie didn’t mention maintenance cost. I’ve had my disc bike in for air in the lines three times. Rim brakes in for maintenance? Zero times.

[@LoscoeLad]

yet I've only had mine bled twice in 6 years!

[@GCNuser123]

good shout! yeah, youre right!

[@pe3117]

I love how always disc brakes wins…I’m just here to see people with old rim brakes crying and trying to explain the benefits of nothing 😅

[@KILLTHEREDDITOR]

I have discs on my bike but I got a news flash for ya... This isn't exactly the most scientific test and GCN is sponsored to the gills so they have to push their sponsor's products *hard*.

[@Alkhawarizmi8585]

Let me explain the real story about both. Some cyclist, they love to tunning the bike everyday like changing stem length, drop bar, shifter and others. Rim brake cable are easy to cut and adjust. Thats mean easy to maintainance and lower cost too. For some reason, disc on RB have it own advantage in all road condition including wet, descent, flat road, gravel and powerful too. Disc save the carbon rim from friction. Disc add weight about 200g or more with 2 rotor, bigger hub, 5-9 more spoke to improve strength at wheel center. Alloy rim brake are durable but not suitable for race because the added mass at outer rim slower the acceleration. For recreational rider it will be just fine. Disc brake add weight but the small weight just sit at the wheel center almost did not effect acceleration. Mechanical disc brake will be the cheapest option with the advantage between rim brake and hydraulic disc brake. So choose the one that suit your preferences. Best for you does not mean good for everyone. And don't be afraid to try. Experience cannot earn from reading on internet. Do it on real life. I am not pro bike mechanic, and not pro racer at CAT 4 but i have doing this since 2011. Just sharing my experience because sharing is caring. Love you all.

[@namenotfound8747]

Riding in a city with hills where you can hit 100kph, I've come to prefer disc brakes solely because you never know when you might have to bail on a descent because of cars or people. So stopping quicker is just a need. But I don't rim brakes anywhere else outside the city.

[@danburns6166]

I noticed on the stopping distance test - 1st. test - the rider skidded the disc brakes, but not the rim brakes. I am suprised by this - didn't seem like an apples to apples test. I ride both rim and disc brake bikes. I like being able to look at rim brakes and see their condition. I have had issues with hydraulic disc brakes sticking. It takes a week long voodo incantation to fix them. I like 'em both when they work, neither are an overwhelming fave to me. I have moved on.

[@pj9375]

What pads did you have on the rim brake Ollie? A decent performance pad will act much better on a carbon rim, more than enough to chuck you over the handlebar 😉

[@timtaylor9590]

any pad could just pull harder

[@sixstanger00]

I think it probably depends on the region where you ride. Here in the southern US, hydraulic or mechanical disc brakes are a must on mountain bikes, but on my road bike, they would be overkill. My typical "road ride" is a 9-mile stretch of road that I ride both ways. The first direction is a very gentle downhill, while coming back it's a steady climb. But no matter where I've ridden thusfar, I haven't got over 38 MPH on a descent. My rim brakes are more the adequate, as I seldom need to brake on my road bike. My MTB? That's another story...

[@nemure]

you should have done this test with allow wheels, which are most common used specially with rim breaks I'm sure my 105 rim break does better than yours with my alloy wheels