GEMS from the DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON (DGG) catalogue #1

[@cillyede]

I am glad I found your channel today. Thank you for your great work. 🇩🇪

[@Tojazzer]

A piano recording sounds thin when the microphone has been incorrectly placed; usually too close to the action (hammers and dampers) and away from the greatest reverberation of the strings. Ideally, a piano should be recorded with two microphones: one above and approximately half way down the strings' length and another microphone underneath the piano about 5 inches from the sound board.

[@jean-lucpernel2202]

Fabuleux, magnifique j'adore, je n'ai que des CD et les pochettes sont moins " flashy" BRAVO ❤❤😊

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

Munrow was a tragic figure. One can only wonder about the demons he must have been battling. But his recorded output is magnificent and so valuable. I have this very set.

[@andreastomiak3428]

Fun fact: with 78th records, the tulips act as a stroboscopic aid for the correct setting of speed.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

Yes, I have both Fricsay boxes.

[@borissikic8463]

Watched all your videos, highly informative and nicely made. There are so few youtube videos on classical vinyl. Keep up the good work !

[@musiconrecord6724]

Thank you so much!

[@ManueldelRio]

Great selection of recordings. I've almost all of them and they really are wonderful references, most of them with excellent sound. If I may write down another great-sounding recording from the Deutsche Grammophon in the analog era. NEU WIENER SCHULE (Schönberg, Berg, Webern) Lasalle Quartet. Recorded between 1968 and 1970. It's true that the German label is more irregular in terms of the sound quality of its recordings than other record companies, however they tried to compete with their rivals, although not always with satisfactory results. An example is the cycle of the Mahler Symphonies by Rafael Kubelik and the Bayerischen Rundfunks (1967-1971). In the booklet that accompanies the box set of 14 LPs (includes a photograph) they point out the effort of having made this recording with innumerable microphones distributed throughout all areas of the orchestra. The funny thing is that for some reason, the sound of these recordings has always seemed excessively strident to me, I do not feel that there is a real tonal pick-up of the instruments. Nothing else. Thanks again for this marvelous video.

[@musiconrecord6724]

I have that LaSalle Quartet box, and it is indeed marvelous. Haven't listened to it in an age, and you have inspired me to take it down off the shelf. Together with Karajan's box of the Second Viennese School, it was my introduction to this repertoire, which I think grows more interesting and compelling as the years go by. Will definitely talk about it in a future video. Might I also recommend the excellent Decca box of Schoenberg with the London Sinfonietta if you do not already know it. You are absolutely correct re. Kubelik's cycle of Mahler symphonies: the many musical virtues of these performances are significantly compromised by the recording, which is indeed strident. (If you haven't already, for an alternative check out the series of live Kubelik Mahler recordings, which are on Audite, if memory serves). I wonder if there is room for improvement in Kubelik's DG Mahler recordings - I am thinking of the superb series of reissues/remixes/remasters being done of core DGG recordings from the 60s-70s by the Emil Berliner Studios for SACD and vinyl. They are a revelation, revealing that many DGG recordings were far better than LP and CD issues would have us believe. I've mentioned these in one of my earlier videos, but will examine them in more detail at a later date.

[@ManueldelRio]

@@musiconrecord6724 Yes, I've that wonderful Schönberg box by David Atherton and the London Sinfonietta. Incredibly, only part of those recordings came out on CD (Enterprise series already out of catalogue many years ago). A few years ago I had asked Decca to please release a CD Box of David Atherton's Complete Recordings with the London Sinfonietta. For the moment they ignored me. As for Kubelik's Mahler cycle, I must say I have it on vinyl in 1986 German pressing (not very good) and 1973 Spanish pressing (a little better). Then the 1989 edition on 10 CDs. I don't know if the 2018 edition on Blu-Ray is remastered by Emil Berliner Studios and if they really have improved the quality of the recordings.

[@davidgoulden5956]

Love DG's artwork in the 1970s and 80s and I don't think many music lovers would dispute that DG's artist roster was the starriest. However, while not an audio nut, I've long found many of their recordings sonically disappointing, which is curious. In particular their piano recordings in the 70s are too electronically pure, if that makes sense. Listen, for example, to Gilels' Brahms recital released 1976, Berman's Liszt albums recorded '77, or Barenboim's Liszt recitals recorded in '79. Beautifully-regulated instruments beautifully played - but no 'bloom', no sense of the acoustic. And Pollini's 1974 Schubert recording sounds downright terrible... Or is it just me?

[@musiconrecord6724]

@@davidgoulden5956 No it's not just you. However, on the evidence of the Emil Berliner SACD remastings I've heard of Argerich and Gilels on DG, what's on the master tape is far superior.

[@davidgoulden5956]

@@musiconrecord6724 Thanks for the reply and the steer re the SACD remasterings. I'd like to hear them. And remiss of me not to mention that I've enjoyed the two talks of yours I've watched so far. Intend to watch some more of them this coming weekend. BEST, David G.

[@djjoeykmusic]

Awesome! Bravo Thank you so much! I need this video help grow my classical. Great job Thank you

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

That early Abbado Scythian Suite is absolutely stunning and absolutely devastating. That piece was tailor made for the Chicago brass.

[@musiconrecord6724]

I just got the Esoteric SACD of these Prokofiev works plus Nevsky. Nearly took the roof off!!

[@pauldavies6037]

What a loss when David Munrow died he was so passionate about early music and discoverd so much for us to enjoy

[@musiconrecord6724]

I will never forget the day my recorder teacher showed up to give me a lesson, and she told me the horrible news. She studied with David. An incalculable loss.

[@pauldavies6037]

@@musiconrecord6724 Chris. Hogwood another early music champion lost too early

[@musiconrecord6724]

@@pauldavies6037 Yes indeed.

[@robertmorgan9205]

My first experience of seeing David Munrow was in a TV series he did about period music. I think it was on the BBC, but I’m not 100% sure of that, and it came from Ordsall Hall, not far from here, in Salford.

[@pauldavies6037]

@@robertmorgan9205 Not sure the venue but seeing that series fired my interest in early music many LP's later still has

[@markstewart1807]

Thanks it’s great to hear someone knowledgeable sharing their wisdom on a very specialised area, where little is truly known.👍

[@wagneroliveira9875]

Wonderful catalog . Fantastic and inspiring video.

[@garysikon1812]

I loved the Boston chamber players recording of the soldiers tale. Sadly I disposed of my vinyl 😢 years ago. The reissue on cd never sounded as good...

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

Pinnock’s Brandenburgs are my reference recordings, still. So very elegant and perfect…and easily the finest clarion trumpeter on record.

[@musiconrecord6724]

I really like his more recent remake too.

[@mymixture965]

Great video, thank you.

[@AlumínioMetal]

Gravadora de excelência!

[@AlumínioMetal]

Aqui no Brasil, quando criança, escutava o LP : " O Messias"! , dá Deutche Gramophon..

[@AlumínioMetal]

HANDEL

[@musiconrecord6724]

alas my Spanish is non-existent - but I think I get the gist. You listened to a recording of Messiah on DG? Which one?

[@AlumínioMetal]

@@musiconrecord6724 Yes

[@AlumínioMetal]

@@musiconrecord6724 Messiah' Handel, com o mesmo selo- Gravadora DG! Aqui no Brazil!

[@makistsobanou9451]

Thanks for your excellent videos. Your references to classical music are always very interesting. And this is something that is not so common on the internet. As about DGG and 'Tulip' border. Τhere are some records with tulip border in which there is on label at 1 o'clock ''Made in Germany'' and some others at the same point in wich there is ''Alle Hersteller''. Are there differences in sound quality between them? Thanks !

[@musiconrecord6724]

Thank you for your kind words. The key factor that makes the DGG Big Tulip pressings sound, in general, better than the later reissues is that they are mastered with tubes in the signal path - the same reason that early Deccas and Columbias sound so good. As to differences within different pressings on Big Tulips, I very much doubt there is an audible difference. Except that hardcore collectors always like the earliest pressings possible.

[@analogueanorak1904]

I also have some queries around the same issues. After watching this wonderful video about a label I haven’t previously focused on I was inspired to dig out around 6 beautiful large tulip pressings I picked up in a charity shop around 5 years ago to re listen to them and inspect them. They sound very good but don’t in my opinion display any of the tube like sound quality that is typically associated with early pressings of Decca and HMV. Also the years of the recordings helpfully found in the dead wax did puzzle me as mine went from 1962 to 1968 which seems surprisingly late for a record company to be still incorporating tubes in the recording chain. Decca recordings once you get past the early sxl 6000’s phased out tubes around 1963 ish I think. So I’ve done a bit of reading but couldn’t find anything specific about the subject of when DG discontinued used tubes. The main principles I did find seem to be you are more likely to get a decent pressing if you can get a large tulip pressing and if you come across recordings engineered by Heinz Wildhagen you are often on to a winner. I also think the big tulips are aesthetically really really pretty especially if you substitute the old inner sleeve for a new black inner sleeve which is why I have held on to my copies. My guess if looking for a DG recording with a stereotypical tube sound would be to find one with recording dates similar to the Decca era 1958:to 1961 ish but it is only a guess as I don’t possess any DGs from that time period.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

Wishing you and I could sit down with a few beers and apps, and just talk.

[@andrewkostelnyk272]

DGG -were the best for releasing classical music -in my opinion- great sound/pressings

[@henryoliver2833]

You still haven't talked about those boxes!

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

With the Stravinsky (and as I’m a trombonist, this may surprise you), I’ve never been all that enamoured of L’Histoire. But I do have one recording, and it’s this very Boston. That said, I absolutely LOVE the Octet and the Boston recording on DGG is the best I’ve ever heard.

[@musiconrecord6724]

Check out the Netherlands Wind Ensemble recording (on their disc of Stravinsky wind music - my introduction to this fabulous corner of Stravinsky's output).

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

@@musiconrecord6724 Yes! That was my introduction to the piece as well, and it includes a marvelous recording of Ebony Concerto and the Piano Concerto.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

Just happened across this video. Looking forward to comparing your “gems” with my own. :-)

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

I can’t think of a single serious classical record collector who does not have the famed Kleiber LvB5 in their collection.

[@ClassicsAndVinyl]

Here's the Leonin Organa from Music of the Gothic Era. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6OuaWOdn5asrLs

[@gerbs4009]

Informative videos but like a number of the other comments . I disagree with the view you hold on whether DG had audiophile credentials. When I started to buy classical music in the early to mid seventies, DG were considered THE go to recordings. Both myself and a colleague at the time, would spend lunchtimes perusing Harold Moores and the other Soho record shops one of which, and the name escapes me, had bins which were just DG.....

[@musiconrecord6724]

ah, Harold Moores. One of the best places to find used classical, much missed. With DG it's definitely a case of trial and error.....

[@newardthelman6871]

You're wrong. DGG was considered to be a premium classical label in the USA up until approximately the mid 1980's. Correspondingly, they were priced higher than other labels in record stores the USA by $1.00. In the 1970's, that was a stiff premium to pay for a record. DG's reputation only began to falter after the 1980's, following the near simultaneous rise of digital recording, and the rise of popularity of Mercury Living Presence and RCA Living Stereo records.

[@musiconrecord6724]

I think you might have mistook my meaning. I was talking about the fact that DG records are not considered "audiophile" recordings compared to Decca and some EMI, RCA Living Stereo and Mercury. Not a matter of how they were marketed or priced at the time. In UK all new releases were priced similarly - I guess DG felt they could charge a mark-up in US because all their records would have been imported pressings from Europe.

[@boogiewoogie9770]

Great vid. Do you have an opinion on the Archiv Produktion releases?

[@musiconrecord6724]

I really like them. The early digital recordings actually sound better than the regular DG equivalents.

[@andrewashdown3541]

One has the Kleiber

[@vinylarchaeologist]

The tulip / no-tulip debate is chock-full of myths and lore - a tulip on the label isn‘t indicative of whether a pressing sounds good or not. Of the 2 dozens of pressings I‘ve had the pleasure to compare, to my surprise ‘70s reissues on the no-tulip label fared best, both in terms of sound and pressing quality. By the ‘70s, vinyl had gotten quieter, and the printing quality of the jacket is also much better than DG‘s flimsy covers from the „red stereo“ era. I do however think that some tulip-era masterings have a certain character to them, even if the string sound tends to sound a bit dry. Those who can decypher DG‘s deadwax / runout groove will find that many tulip-era masterings are to be found on later pressings, as they continued to use the same metal work well into the ‘70s.

[@musiconrecord6724]

With any record label, an early pressing is no guarantee of superior sound. I have a first pressing of the famous Decca "Espana" which is flat and dull. DG records are highly variable, and yes indeed there are some excellent pressings from the 70s. On the few Tulip pressings I have acquired, most of them have had that extra "je ne said quoi" that often comes with tube-mastered pressings.

[@sarahjones-jf4pr]

WHAT ABOUT BERNSTEIN.....How can you forget him?

[@vjekop932]

I disagree about the Beethoven 5th. Kleiber's version is very good, but Igor Markevitch's also on DG is probably the greatest of all time.

[@musiconrecord6724]

I will have to listen to that one again - love Markevitch.

[@mickeytheviewmoo]

Yes and do not forget the Frecsay recording also on (DG). A rather long stretched out 2nd Movement but overall more characterful version.

[@vjekop932]

@@mickeytheviewmoo his 9th is one of the great ones as well.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

I love the Fricsay Pathetique, but as a trombonist, I find the brass playing of that orchestra rather problematic.

[@vinylarchaeologist]

Guys, there is no original DG of Fricsay‘s stereo Pathétique! It was never released originally. The Speakers Corner from 2000 is the first-ever issue of that title, not a reissue. DG only released Fricsay‘s mono Pathétique from the ‘50s, and the stereo recording stayed in the vaults. According to Speakers Corner, not even the original engineer remembered ever having recorded it, and it remains unclear why it was never released.

[@musiconrecord6724]

I didn't know this. Fascinating - and many thanks for pointing it out.

[@mickeytheviewmoo]

As far as I know Friscay wasn't happy with the recording and wanted to rejig a few things. Unfortunately, because of his early death this didn't happen. As a mark of respect DG held back in releasing it. I was glad they eventually did because its one of the best. Not my favourite but nearly.

[@ILTOURS]

yas good music on dgg but ..the sound where ..very average soncliy

[@musiconrecord6724]

There are a few sonic gems lurking in the undergrowth.....

[@munkienl1]

I only have the Abbado and the Pinnock, very annoying...Most DGG records came in see-through sticky plastic inner covers sticking to the record for 40 years so they give me more crackle than other labels esp. Philips records that came in proper inner covers. Archiv is usually better than DGG strangely enough. You can't get around DGG although IMHO they were a bit conservative when it came to repertoire.

[@musiconrecord6724]

If you haven't already, you might consider investing in a record cleaning machine of some description. I find a good clean makes nearly all records pretty darn quiet.

[@davidthom7127]

I'd rather have a mediocre recording of incredible musicians than an incredible recording of mediocre musicians.