Faceting: Solve girdle problems by Zeroing the Cheater

[@battmann678]

It's a good man who shares his had won victories with others.... thanks.....

[@InsightThoughtSystems]

It's so great to know that this effort is helping people. Thank you very much for the kind comments and questions!

[@kennethcampen9367]

The suggestion as to how to reduce transfer stair stepping is very helpful. I have, over the past 10 years, had many "doorknobs" reduced to less than 10mm due to this problem. A fellow faceter here in Portland just 3 days ago showed me the very device you suggested. When my new Facetron arrives in several weeks, I will have to try this. BTW, I never did get to thank you personally for your participation in the 2009 CWFG conference. Your presentations were both witty and helpful. Thanks.

[@ronbranch4059]

John, thank you for the information as I've only just started faceting and having problems with transferring dops and then having a true girdle. I use an Imahashi machine that is quite different in the way the dop aligns in the quill. Your theory on this problem has given me a way of sorting my problem. A big thank you.

[@InsightThoughtSystems]

Glad to have helped!

[@donnlaw4345]

I'll be implementing this procedure in the morning when the glue on my 'tool' is setup. In my attempts to rationalize why this works I concluded that since the keyed dops, while in the transfer block, (and you're gonna like this) are opposed as a "Mirror Image" of one another! I'll be communicating my results when done. Again thanks!

[@bb4kim]

Thanks for sharing this tip. I am all for reducing the aggravating parts of this craft. this really does allow us to enjoy faceting a little bit more. Thank again from all of who benefit from you knowledge

[@claireinbrum]

Such a relief to get some practical information on this. I am in France where the faceting community is pretty slim sadly and I have been struggling with this for over a year now. I do have the added problem of a misaligned platen/mast which has made it even harder to work around and also found out my transfer jig was out and I also had a couple of grooves in my index wheel that were not machined properly...a lot of problems I know! Having solved the problems one by one (well not so much solved as found a way to work with and around them) i still however have problems when transferring stones over: because i have to use the cheater on the pavilion (due to the missaligned platen/mast) i cannot zero the cheater as you suggest after transferring... i thought that if i started my check with the cheater on the same setting as for the pavilion it would work...but it doesn't. I have random results every time! i am not sure how to proceed from there. Any ideas?

[@t0rb1naalborg44]

Hi Claire Sadly :-( I think that all those work around 's makes it impossible even for an expert to figure out why. Is it; the mast/it's workaround, transfer jig / it's workaround, the index gear /it's workaround, you being lost or a yet another machine issue. good wind - Torben

[@JIMGRINDEL]

When faceting a softer stone I 'm doing well until I get to the 1200 grit stage, can not get the scratches out . What would you recommend for laps. I have been told to get lighting laps. I would you recommend Thanks

[@gemstoneartist]

Hi, Jim, If your 1200 is a metal-plated-type lap, move it to your kitchen or shed for knife/tool sharpening. Seriously. 1200 plated laps are associated to SO many problems, and they're not useful in most sequencing. You want to go from ~600 (35um) metal plated or so down into 3k (6um) or finer particle sizes for your prepolish. You'll need some different sizes there, from 9um (2k) down to 3um (8k) to insure you can step around orange peel effect when it appears. Other than that, the main issue is QUALITY. You want solid (no toppers) and FLAT. Iv'e gone to using resin-tech laps for most of my cutting, and some of my prepolish, but still find diamond on metal (Zinc or Tin or BATT) are best. I'm using both Dreamer 800 and HE 500 laps for my primary cutting of stones softer than Spinel - which are on Crystalite 600 standard metal bond. Then, to the diamond-on-metal prepolish. For most stones of normal sizes, you should be doing 2 or 3 passes: e.g. Sapphire is 600 metal - 3k Voodoo on Zinc - 50k Voodoo on Diamax or Tin+. Anything softer than Spinel is usually Dreamer 800 or HE 500 then to polishing, and the 50k Voodoo on Diamax or TIn+ is the go-to unless we're doing Oxide. Then, it's usually Voodoo Wet Chrome on Matrix or Corian. This sort of sequencing will keep you fast and neat, and keep your kit from bloating excessively, though it will be weighted in the pre-polishing area - again to help you step around orange peel effect. Hope this helps. Ask any other questions.

[@aaronhubbard7674]

Love the idea to obtain the "dope" on my Facetron using this method. I have not done it that way, but I'm gonna!

[@ross_berg]

And your advice when you have a machine with keyless dops? I have an older machine. If possible when I have enough material with my rough, I use a witness facet on the crown end and align in that fashion. Or if not I use a dop jig, mine is a square piece of brass, two halves with a hole in the middle and held together by two screws that can be tightened onto the dop stick, it works for me...

[@thomasswingle6293]

John you are the MAN! Thanks so much....

[@InsightThoughtSystems]

Careful: those devices can break or chip a stone easily! Try this: Just press the stone against the master lap. Then, blacken the girdle facet with a sharpie marker. Drag the facet gently against the polish lap - and look to see where the ink is rubbed off. Adjust and repeat until the ink comes off evenly across the width of the facet. That's dead-on - and proper use of a "witness facet". Hope this helps!!

[@SuperLAndrus]

ok, i use that very thing, I had just never heard it called a witness facet. I built a device that is 2 pieces of aluminum u channel that I bolt onto the transferred stone and then lie that on a master lap before tightening the quill. Like you say, it gets it close. Thanks for the reply.

[@fxflotterer]

Great video with usefull information and tips! Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@InsightThoughtSystems]

With unkeyed dops it's necessary to do a re-alignment after transfer. The standard technique for that is using a "witness facet" to align the stone in the quill. You set the head at 90 degrees, and put your witness facet against a master lap. Press down with your thumb to make good contact, and then tighten the quill with the stone in that position. It'll be very close, and minor adjusting of cheater will get you dead-on.

[@troyellison1404]

Could you use this method on a Gemmasta GF4? If so, how would I go about it? Just asking as the index wheel is actually screwed to the quill.

[@SuperLAndrus]

My Ultra Tec is an older model and used unkeyed dops. Got any suggestions?

[@InsightThoughtSystems]

You've got it, Don. Hope you enjoy.

[@eloyrivero8335]

Español Inglés Hello, I am left hand and I would like to ask you with the manual piece faceting machines and the mast ones, how should I do, can I change the direction of rotation of the plate ?, Thank you very good your videos, greetings

[@gemstoneartist]

Faceting isn't like writing or drawing in the requirement for free-hand coordination. And, the tasks that each hand does don't need to be separated so much as many others in daily life. Many left-handed people just use the right-hand machine. If you can find a machine that's set up for "left handed" you can try that and see if you like it. In my way of teaching, I have a heavy emphasis on efficiency, ergonomics, and health/comfort of cutting. If I were working with you directly / personally, I would have you trying proper and efficient technique on both setups and see what works best for you. And, that is my final suggestion - to experiment and see.

[@eloyrivero8335]

@@gemstoneartist thankyou so much for answerme, regardles

[@InsightThoughtSystems]

Ross, if you don't have keyed dops the zero won't matter. The technique is exactly what you're doing - witness facet.

[@rogerc1404]

john: is there an adaptation of these cheater adjustments when using a fac-ette machine, which has a slotted index gear? do you just put the gear in place, then release it to let it free wheel, then use the process in this video and remark true zero? would appreciate any advice. thanks. roger

[@alexnikoo244]

As Always, Thanking you, so basically you say the mark on the cheater is where the zero start for that particular stone.

[@Hedbrant2]

Do this work with Styrene acrylonitrile resin (SAN) plastic instead of glass? Found a perfect piece but don't want to put it to the lap if it will contaminate it.

[@gemstoneartist]

I do NOT recommend using any kind of plastic for this. It might pack-up the lap, and you don't need to manufacture more microplastics. I find pieces of glass that will work for this in the alleyway behind the local window shop, next to the dumpster.

[@Hedbrant2]

@@gemstoneartist Haha yeez if they only knew how those fancy gems are made huh?

[@nurettinburak4061]

Hello . I also use this machine. But the stones I cut are not flat with the gridle. Why could that be?

[@AdriOnFilms]

I sent a 665 k raw ruby in for polishing, they sent my back about a 5 k star stone, I asked what happened, to make a long story short, I got another stone, this one is 51.11 k cabed stone with what they call a star, barely. Would you say that would be the best cut for a stone of that size or would you think they go for size? I'm feeling like I got scammed somehow. Advice please as to what to say to them now! Thank you

[@andrewosborne5397]

A 665 k raw ruby is extremely big !! I would say you had a low grade ruby corrundum and because it was not "gem quality " they were going for a star ruby which are always cabbed. The balance if the stone being tg e 51.11 k cabbed was really the reject stone. They probably did the best they could if the piece was low grade. I know the feeling of being "robbed" but much if the remainder of the stone was ground down the sink.665k of gem quality ruby would mean you were a million by now.

[@jlihomes]

Great job I will try this for sure

[@LSE138]

Yay, this is what I needed!

[@saitoichii7232]

Hello , I am left handed and think to buy Ultra Tec V5(DAD) Somebody said that for left handed best choice is V5(DAD). What is your advice Best regards

[@gemstoneartist]

Being left-handed doesn't necessarily mean you need a left-mast machine. That aside, the Ultra Tec V5 digital is the machine I'm currently recommending for anyone who can afford one. If you would like personal consultation on your needs and best strategies for you, feel free to contact me through the web site. I'll be happy to set up a video call with you.

[@Tien23Nguyen]

huge help! Thanks!

[@aname1128]

THANK YOU FOR THIS

[@InsightThoughtSystems]

Welcome

[@aname1128]

@@InsightThoughtSystems I've been having such a hard time with this problem after transfering! I've been posting some of my lap work on @bluebearglass instagram if you are interested to see what i've been up to. Thanks again

[@bernardthongvanh5613]

thank you

[@johnsonsgems7029]

great vidieo