Generation Loss MKII Latency: How Bad Is It? And How to Fix It.

[@Bloom_Music]

UPDATE: Chase Bliss has released a new firmware that reportedly reduces the latency by half, or better. Link: www.chasebliss.com/gen-loss-mkii-mods

[@shyharmonic]

what version of the usb cable does this pedal use? None of old usb cables I have fit and I have dozens of different ones, I've never seen this size before.

[@Bloom_Music]

@@shyharmonic It's a micro USB. I just double checked, and a standard micro USB cable fit in mine just fine.

[@icibatist]

​@@Bloom_Music Is it better now, with the update ?

[@Subtronik]

Can’t say I like the sound of the tighter latency flange effect.

[@icibatist]

@@Subtronik Yes. I did the update too and it's much better now

[@junkheadyamiken]

Thanks for sharing. On thegearpage someone measured the latency of the ehx pitchfork and digitech drop around ~15ms. compared to this 30ms latency is just ridiculous bad performance. Thanks for the work!

[@TimmyBolan]

This video has the potential to save a lot of people a lot of time in relation to real-world use of this processor, myself included. Thanks, man.

[@SRCasualEncounters]

Preorderer of the second batch and bummed on this. When a wet signal is combined with the dry signal but with an added delay, it isn't really a wet/dry is it? If I am looking to use the wet/dry, it's to reduce the overall amount of the effect not create a phasing issue. As you mentioned, there should be latency compensation, or at least an option. Also, CB knows their pedals are loved by the synth/instagram/succulent community who often would use this in a DAW printing scenario so to say this pedal is exclusively for guitarists isn't accurate. In fact, when the algorithm feeds me CB content, it is usually with synths.

[@Bloom_Music]

Don't know if a wet/dry sync option is the kind of thing that could be added by a firmware update, but fingers crossed!

[@Waldemar_la_Tendresse]

Thanks for a very useful video beyond the obvious marketing videos. Love the sound of the pedal, not sure yet, if I would be able to live with that latency.

[@JonValtandtheEvilRobots]

Fantastic deep dive and testing!! This does NOT fix latency. It moves the latency to the initial moment when you press play. The latency is still there. This video shows that if you’re not playing live, you can’t hear the latency, but you can hear the DIFFERENCE in latency between the dry and wet signals. Then when you add the external instrument plugin, you still cannot hear the latency, still can only hear the difference. Now that difference is so small that can’t be discerned, but the latency remains - at the very beginning. If you were singing into a mic or playing, it would still be there. If you put an external / live utility plugin, and recording something real, that latency would still be really obvious.

[@Bloom_Music]

“This is really only going to help people in a studio environment, this is not something you’re gonna reasonably do live. So, to the people using this live, you’re just kind of stuck with the latency” @ 20:13

[@JonValtandtheEvilRobots]

@@Bloom_Music Yeah, you totally covered that. It's an important tid-bit that I thought needed to be fleshed out. I have a feeling some people watching this just for G.A.S. purposes might not realize that this doesn't actually "fix" the latency and might think they need to route it through their computer because it'll fix a problem "on the way in." Another point you brought up, that might make for a small bit of content for you is the tip about creating an external instrument device. Regardless of what pedal it is, this is a great tip that I'm guessing folks who haven't used mixers might not realize. OR it'll save someone (again, GAS haha) from thinking they need to buy some fancy gadget or plug-in to run their audio out through a real send. Oh, haha, good time to demonstrate what a real send / return is like so people understand it in software. LOL I used to make tut videos. Maybe I should make one on that. Dibs! 🤣 Again, great video. I wasn't being critical. Have a good one.

[@electrosaurus]

Don't doubt it's there. Can hear it myself but honestly, for it's general use case (particularly guitarists) its almost completely irrelevant. It's a character pedal above all else. Curious to see if CBA address it. I actually enjoy it for those faults. Otherwise it could be just another un-engaging plugin on a DAW.

[@raymondcortez5184]

Has chase bliss made a response to this yet?

[@Bloom_Music]

Chase Bliss has spoken about the latency on various forums and explained the reasons for it. But there’s not really anything they can do. Digital pitch effects inherently have latency. There’s not really anything to “fix”. However, I wanted to post this video for informational purposes, because there is some blatant misinformation out there. There are fanboys out there telling people the pedal has zero latency, which is objectively false. Now, if there’s one thing I think they can “fix”, it’s the difference in latency between the wet and the dry signal. It may be possible to delay the dry signal to get it aligned with the wet, but who knows. All that being said, the only purpose of this video was to share information. I’m not trying to disparage the pedal in any way! I love it, and my review video reflects that!

[@xsm5525]

for me, the best improvement they could do to this pedal is with that bypass switch, it's clunky, and it's not smooth at all, I don't think the latency helps. Instead of it cutting between on and off, it would cooler if if sort of blended in over like 200ms, the engaged sound and the bypass. as a sort of auto blend. and vice versa.

[@GhordoCT]

In watching the test am I understanding that you’re only using 1/2 of the stereo signal? If I follow correctly, that latency might be part of the stereo spread ?

[@Bloom_Music]

You are correct, I only used one channel of the stereo signal for the measurements, just for simplicity's sake. But the latency is there in both channels. The stereo spread of the pedal is generated in the Failure section, and is a toggle option. The manual says, "Failure is responsible for the multi-layered stereo image you experience with SPREAD on. Its various effects manifest differently on the left and right channels, creating a moving stereo image. The drops have the most pronounced and abrupt effect, but you can bypass them to get more subtle deviation from the crinkles and pops".

[@GhordoCT]

@@Bloom_Music thanks for the expanded information and reply. Keep up the great work!✌️

[@randoH3000]

I’m pretty sure they could give an update for this. Anytime I’ve been disappointed with an aspect of pedal functionality, there has been a work around or an update. Have you tried reaching out to the company for comment?

[@Bloom_Music]

I have not, but I’ve seen this video shared on a few sites that I’m sure the Chase Bliss guys are watching. They’ve even made some comments themselves regarding the latency and some possible investigations into a low latency mode. But I have confidence that they are seeing the concerns of their customers, and if enough people see it as a problem, they’ll be more likely to address it. Honestly, for me, the latency isn’t really a big deal. It’s the difference between the wet and dry signal that I’d like to see remedied!

[@togethernessnyc]

Supposedly Tefi Vintage Lab's Golden Era is all analog. Has anyone done a latency comparison?

[@Bloom_Music]

I've never had my hands on a Golden Era, but there's a post on TheGearPage where someone compared latencies between the Gen Loss and a bunch of other pedals. The Golden Era was included, and they listed the latency as 8 ms. urldefense.com/v3/__www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads*new-gen-loss-mkii-from-chase-bliss.2368939*post-35777680__;Ly8!!Bbg-OcCDlOs!Hval9TStdCkmnC90Ov0A_3bWjUZVkmMdL2ayTPSsT-gM46GWuMgqoS0B7-5tw50Hs3ZW-SSAtRwvtTB-nTz5D2Vain5E$

[@pauldonnan]

Would love to see a test with the new firmware. Cynically I suspect the reason the dry is not true analog is an attempt to close the gap on the abysmal wet latency. Such a shame, seems unusable live.

[@Bloom_Music]

Sorry, I can't help with this. I'm not doing the update as the latency is not an issue for my use case, and I prefer the chorus-y sound of the wet/dry currently vs. the flange-y sound you get after the update!

[@pauldonnan]

@@Bloom_Music no need to apologise! Everyone has different use cases for these things.

[@tendingtropic7778]

Its a pity, i think many people would like to use this as a 'end of chain' saturating/lofi device.

[@beelbrother1648]

that's what I bought mine for and it's unusable for that purpose. sounds lovely otherwise.

[@benwiley8941]

Why is it unusable for that purpose?

[@tendingtropic7778]

@@benwiley8941 latency!

[@benwiley8941]

I guess I'm trying to understand why it's less suitable for that versus anything else.

[@beelbrother1648]

@@benwiley8941 The video you are commenting on demonstrates it perfectly, but if you want to test it yourself, in your DAW of choice, open any given track and duplicate the track so you have 2 copies. Press play. The song will sound normal, as the peaks are lined up perfectly. Next, nudge one of the copies over just slightly (10-30ms, for instance) and listen to it. I replaced the MKII with a similar lo-fi tape emulator pedal, the Kinotone Ribbons, and it does not have this issue.

[@christopherjazzcat7922]

Damn, this is very disappointing. I ordered one to add some lofi characteristics to my jazz guitar rig. 25ms of latency is way too much for that kind of application. Looks like I'm probably gonna have to sell it on if i can't find a way to deal with it in my live rig

[@damigamusic]

Great video. I use this as a send effect on my Elektron devices in a daw-less environment and, while the latency is noticeable, it creates a nice chorusing effect when you crank up the dry signal on synths. I say embrace the latency and make it work for you if you can. I definitely wouldn't use this on drums for the exact reasons that you pointed out, though.

[@michaelhoman7748]

how do you route the send? you using octa? i have a digitakt and am curious.

[@MatthewSwasta]

in my use case, faster picking guitar riffs, strumming chords, I experienced latency that was not acceptable...sent mine back #01432. CB refunded with no questions. Really good customer service. I'm really disappointed because I wanted it to work out. It is a feel thing on the guitar...I wanted tape manipulations, not any delay.

[@Bloom_Music]

Sorry it didn't work out for you!

[@MatthewSwasta]

@@Bloom_Music me too!!! 😞

[@CompletelyDifferentToBefore]

Is latency any better using original mode?

[@Bloom_Music]

Actually, yes! I didn't think to include it in the video, but I got the following measurements in Classic mode: Pedal Off (Soft Bypass): 8.62 ms Pedal On (Dry Signal): 8.62 ms Pedal On (Wet Signal): 15.25 ms So you get lower overall latency, and less difference between the wet and the dry signal.

[@SpaceDisco1]

Thanks for offering the numbers!

[@beelbrother1648]

I preordered 30 minutes after receiving the email notification. I was so excited to use this as my end-of-chain sound for performing my music live. I could still hear the doubling effect even when switched to 100% wet. What's really crazy is there are people straight up denying the delay is even there! Anyway, replaced the MKII with a Kinotone Ribbons and everything is good now.

[@benwiley8941]

You piqued my interest with this comment. I've preordered a gen loss mkii and am excited but the latency does give me pause. You played around with both pedals, yes? Do they cover the same territory or do you think they have different strengths / weaknesses?

[@RustyTonesJr]

The Ribbons is pretty incredible. I sold my mk2 the week I got it and got the Bygones Pro. I really want a Ribbons though.

[@beelbrother1648]

@@benwiley8941 Hey Ben, I spent about 12-16 hours listening to the MKII before I decided to box it up for a new home. The MKII and Ribbons have a lot of overlap being a lofi tape effect, but they do have their own strengths and weaknesses. Overall, I think the pedals have different philosophies. The MKII is a collection of EQ presets that sound nice, but cannot be altered to taste (not considering the saturation, wow & flutter, noise, etc). By using the MKII you are taking a leap of faith in CBA's tastes to deliver a set of presets that sound good. And they do... but the 12 or however many EQ settings is not very many, and to be honest some of them only sound slightly different. The Ribbons is more of a blank canvas with a set of tools where you have to shape your own sound. The MKII is very plug and play. I have heard that CBA pedals are complicated, but I found the MKII to be very intuitive and easy to learn. The saturation is really tasteful and sounds good at all levels. The randomized wow & flutter are fantastic. The failure settings sound incredible. It's also very cool that they included the Classic mode, I wish I had compared it directly with the CooperFX V2. They're different, but similar enough to satisfy someone who wants the v2. In contrast to the MKII, the Ribbons is not as immediately intuitive. I tried to jump right in and mess with the pedal and was completely lost. I had to take my time to study the manual and play with the settings one-by-one. Once I learned how to page through the menus, it all came together. The reverb sounds really nice (yes, it has a freakin reverb!), but I haven't experimented with it much. The verb can be switched to either pre, or post-tape effect which was a really smart move. And I haven't even touched the loop functionality (yes, it is also a freakin loop pedal!). The wow & flutter is not random, and I was worried that I was going to miss that from the MKII, but it isn't really as impactful as I was imagining it. The noise effect is more pleasant and realistic to the ear. And the "failure" effects, tape crinkle dropouts, snags, etc. are fairly similar and about as nice as the MKII. The MKII is a really beautiful sounding pedal, but for my very particular use, the latency just killed the mix. Try to forget my comments and enjoy yours when you get it.

[@lofijunky]

this demonstration was really helpful. thank you!

[@WesWookBeats]

16:22 👍 “Line up dry signal”

[@Erickchicas]

this pedal is 100% meant to be used on guitars a lot as well and it sounds great in them.

[@Bloom_Music]

For sure, I didn’t mean to make it sound like it shouldn’t be used on guitars at all. It can definitely be used on guitars and will sound great. Honestly, it sounds great on everything! This is mainly a synth channel, so that’s usually how I approach things. No offense meant. 😊

[@beelbrother1648]

I've seen way more demos on synths than guitar. I personally bought it as a final mix effect for my songs.

[@John-e4p1x]

Bought the MK2, was so bad I had to return it. Got the Kinotone RIBBONS. Now I am Happy. CB $UCKS!!!

[@EcoCentrist]

what a world, forking over hard earned cash to buy gear that makes us sound like sh*t. can't wait till mine comes in the mail!!! kidding aside, this is a very helpful vid. much appreciated.