Most Realistic Shield Walls in Film

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Today we'll finally show you what we consider some of the most realistic portrayals of shield walls in films and tv.
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[@GenerationFilms]

Don't forget to subscribe to NordVPN at nordvpn.com/generationfilms use code GENERATIONFILMS to get NordVPN's birthday deal: 70% off plus 1 month free, AND a surprise gift 🎁

[@heathward9239]

I love you Allen

[@oddish2253]

9:29 the battle of guatemala?

[@mrgoodnigth6742]

Real live news shielwall in myanmar protest this month watch it

[@FirstNameLastName-tg3rc]

Minor detail but I believe it was Great Heathen Army, not horde.

[@madbikerwolf8664]

I didn't forget to subscribe to NordVPN, I just choose not to since they FORGOT to notify their customer base of a data breach.

[@VulpesChama]

Ah, memories of ol' Rome: Total War and defending a city (center) against a pure melee army with just a couple of phalanx units.

[@GenerationFilms]

My favorite part was having my Roman legionaries launch their pila before charging

[@happa_hunter6209]

As greeks I'd just make a circle around my archers and wait lol

[@marleyjr00]

Ah, good times.

[@emperor-thesenate-palpatin5954]

Best game ever made

[@CamillusofRome]

Or holding a bridge with one or two phalanges and waiting for the enemy to throw themselves onto waiting spears....

[@Dangitdangvu]

"We don't know exactly how things look a hundred years ago" - shows Narnia Love it

[@esiquielmoreno9025]

A hundred years ago it wad the early 1900s lol he should have said atleast like 5 hundred or more but it doesn't really matter lol

[@Vidhur]

@@esiquielmoreno9025 I think he is referring to the publish date of the Narnia books, which is like 70 years ago.

[@thomasbarton478]

@@esiquielmoreno9025 Narnia sets place a hundred years ago

[@9and7]

@@esiquielmoreno9025 Were you there?

[@Hierax415]

"We don't know how things looked 100 years ago. Actual footage of WW1..."Am I a joke to you?"

[@BoleDaPole]

Most of that you see from ww1 is training footage or recreations done miles from the front for the cameras to portay way back home in a much more civilized manner.

[@GrimFaceHunter]

@@BoleDaPole There is also a lot of propaganda footage. One example is German half-tracks, which weren't as numerous as movies and games depict them.

[@nobleman9393]

Yeah, that was an extremely stupid and ignorant statement

[@TheAtkey]

@@nobleman9393 In fairness I think he meant to say like 100s or years ago or more accurately like 1000 years ago.

[@DaroriDerEinzige]

Well ... it's painfully obvious that this isn't a History Channel though :x

[@ApeOfMyIdeal]

Worked on Vikings for five years now, as a warrior... Our best shield wall was actually cut from the show. We came out of a reed bed, on a *surprise* attack against a Frankish defensive tower, but in the scene immediately came under arrow fire. We had to run out of the reeds under fire, wheel right to get into formation to face an attack, and create the "roof and wall" shield formation while running at this speed. It actually worked really well (though there were 3 pretty bad injuries), but them they cut most of the actual formation from the show. Oh well.

[@KoonFox6560]

what a shame they cut this!

[@fludblud]

Will they ever release any uncut BTS scenes of these sequences? The experimental archaeological value of such large formations in motion even if scripted is considerable, especially how the injuries occurred.

[@bowenc24]

Rome deserved more seasons, it was cut way to early! From the details to the actors, everything was just right for that show.

[@KSE012]

If I remember correctly, Rome was destined for at least a third season. They didn't make it because the set and all the costumes and props burnt down, They didn't have the money to remake everything again and no one wanted to front the cash, so it was essentially scrapped.

[@bowenc24]

@@KSE012 I didn’t know that! That really stinks a fire robbed us of another season!

[@einhalbesbrot]

@@KSE012 wait didnt they have insurance?

[@TB688]

@@KSE012 Actually 5 seasons were planned but there was no fire. While the show was popular and got good reviews, this was before Game of Thrones and high budget TV-shows was very risky and Rome was at the time a very expensive show to make. And unlike shows like Deadwood that was cancelled after the last season was made(hence various plot points set up in the third season having no explanation or resolution, since it was all suppose to make sense in season 4), the Rome cast were told that season 2 would be the last hence they had to scramble to get something out of it. So they squeezed what was gonna be season 2, 3 and 4 into 10 episodes hence season 2 moving very fast plot-wise compared to season 1. Kinda is amazing that season 2 while being rushed still turned out good.

[@KSE012]

@@TB688 Sorry mate, and sorry all. After a little more research ^^old mate above is right. The fire was after the series was already dead and canceled.

[@sleevy4687]

Alexander is such a underated movie

[@christiannicolasborgenstee3092]

i feel like im on a journey when watchig it

[@Yorgar]

Extended cut is on netflix and it's in more chronological order with less flashbacks

[@marcusviniciusmagalhaesdea3779]

@@YorgarIs practically a reenactment of Parallel Lives Alexander/Caesar of Plutarch. An amazing book.

[@nothingtoospiffy7913]

It's my favorite historical movie. Only the version that's called Alexander Revisited though. The other ones are trash

[@leaflovingal1011]

I love when you use this intro. It's like a random encounter in a video game.

[@torinjones3221]

The only real problem with the last kingdom shield wall is the English used round shields. Not square or kite shields which didn't exist or were used by the Normans. A modern person almost wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Saxon and a Viking since both would look identicle and languages were almost interchangeable.

[@Overworlder7]

I figure they put in the rectangular shields so you could tell the two sides apart. I think a smarter move would've been to give the Saxon shields an identifiable color and put some crosses on them. Still not super accurate I'm sure but certainly better.

[@ShantanuSuchil]

Really? Not the fact that thousands are just standing around instead of you know...going round the side?

[@SBN-7734]

Or the fact that there's standing in some sort of pseudo testeudo instead of, you know, an actual shield wall? It's not like there are any archers. Although, now that I think about it, I guess with their weird shields you couldn't really form a shield wall.

[@GonzoTehGreat]

​@@Overworlder7 Apparently it was potentially beneficial to paint a wooden shield to disguise the grain direction of the wood (which could otherwise be used to identify points of weakness), so using these decorations to identify the two armies apart would've made more sense. They could also do the same with their armor and clothing.

[@marcusviniciusmagalhaesdea3779]

@@Overworlder7 most of the "errors" in that series apparently we're for differentiation of sides and for keepping the action running.

[@selectthedead]

The greek Phalanx is still my farouite! Having to run against a spear wall is absolutly terrifying!

[@sinistertwister686]

I would argue that this is a spear wall, not shield wall, and therfore should not be included. After all, if something (elephant, for example) wasn't stopped by your very long and pointy spear, would you even hope that it would be stopped by your shield?

[@verticalgrips4611]

tbh I'd just desert rather than getting myself killed running into a pike

[@dasser6544]

Thats the point (pun intenddd), no one runs into a spear wall. You either shuffle back or just stand in place, your whole unit is now pinned and useless and ready to be outflanked. The Greeks might have invented the phalanx, but the Macedonians perfected it.

[@johngallagher9151]

The Macedonian Pike Phalanx and the Greek Hoplite Phalanx are two different things. Make sure to specify

[@redclayscholar620]

I gotta go with a Macedonian phalanx over the traditional phalanx.

[@L0stEngineer]

How dare you! You spilled accurate history and ancient tactics into my favorite pop culture and sci fi channel. See that it happens again.

[@AhsokaTanoTheWhite]

I'm not a historian, but I think the first part of the 300 Phalanx fight was good, but then inexplicably they all broke formation and started fighting with swords and left the pass they were guarding to just skirmish chaotically...

[@Woodartifact388]

To be fair on the skirmish, the story is being told by a Spartan soldier, he would naturally embellish the story to make the Spartans sound braver and more skilled.

[@richi7494]

@@Woodartifact388 yes, that is what most people don't get. It's a visualisation of a told story by that one eyed spartan, not a accurate depiction of the battle how it happend

[@ashishnair9463]

@@Woodartifact388 And leave out the Thespians, Thebans and some of the other bands as well.

[@lucasfragoso7634]

@@ashishnair9463 yup it sucks to since they don't get enough credit for staying

[@OrcinusDrake]

I believe the idea in universe is that the enemy formation broke, and so the spartans were "harrying" the rout.

[@Anexelegtos]

"When one says shield wall we immediately think about Danes and Saxons".... Ancient Greek Phalanx "Am i joke to you ?"

[@mrhutchblackdog4636]

Leonidas and the 300, Achilles and Mirmidons, Testudo formation in many roman theme movies.

[@zachsmith1676]

yes because that is a forest of sarrissa (really long pikes) not a wall of shields... the main defensive item of the phalanx is actually the pike they use... after the first couple ranks the rest of the phalanx formation would angle their pikes so as to deflect incoming projectiles which made it hard for the enemy to defeat them via ranged weaponry... flanking or catching the phalanx out of their rigid formation was really the only way to defeat it.

[@nogisonoko5409]

Shield wall, not spear walls. Know the difference.

[@Anexelegtos]

@@nogisonoko5409 From the Shield Wall entry : This tactic was known to be used by many ancient armies including the Persian Sparabara, Greek phalanx, and Roman legion, though its origin and spread is unknown. It may have developed independently more than once. Yeah there is none...

[@Anexelegtos]

@@zachsmith1676 The soldiers forming the Greek Shield Wall were called Hoplites... Hoplon was the Greek word for Shield.... their actuall name was "Shieldbearers"... Sarrissa came about 100-150 years later than the first shield wall formations...

[@asfm2]

Pretty cool to see the battles from Alexander get recognition. It was really neat to see a more authentic portrayal of ancient battles than what you tend to get.

[@ilijas3041]

Dude, you were very much wrong about Macedonian phalanx in two ways. You described its mechanics well but then framed it incorrectly. First, it was not a shield wall, it was a spear/pike wall. Their shields were reduced in size and worn hanging over the shoulder, so basically they were more of an extended armour than a shield as we imagine it in a shieldwall. Secondly, the phalanx was not a defensive formation. Noone is crazy enough to just throw flesh into the wall of pikes, and if the phalanx loses tactical initiative and becomes reactive instead of aggressive - it gives the enemy time to figure out how to flank it or just kite it to oblivion. Phalanx was offensive formation, its slow and unstopable advance was its best use. It was an anvil in hammer and anvil tactics (the hammer being a companion cavalry). Look into it, the 4 major battles of Alexander - you will see that in each of them phalanx was agile and agressive, seeking to engage enemy as soon as posible and pin their main body of infantry as quickly as possible so that the cavalry can do its thing. Even when cavalry went ahed (Alex being the crazy dude he was) the phalanx always acted the same way and trying to close the distance quickly while the disruption caused by companions still held the enemy out of formation...

[@morrogin5986]

Then there is the difference between a Macedonian phalanx and the hellenic one... The hellenic one would probably have been a better example tbh

[@ilijas3041]

@@morrogin5986 totally, the classic hoplite formation is much more relevant for this purpose. They had their hoplons, big badass shields locked in the line of soldiers. but somewhat less iconic and not often depicted in movies

[@morrogin5986]

@@ilijas3041 300 did a fair example for the 1st 40 seconds of the 1st battle, can't think of anything else off the top of my head though

[@Wayofswords]

Yo you do realize that stepping on your own men will kill em by trampling two pikes are.often equipped to fight with a different close in weapon when the emeny charges like mad men screaming with a shield to the front will slow the quick advance to a crawl. Lastly it's still a shield just a strap to keep on front to make the hands free and has a handle when the pike breaks.

[@morrogin5986]

@@Wayofswords you did just highlight a downside to all close order formations... however, the average shield size of a Macedonian phalangite was 2 feet. this was not wide enough to properly lock shields into a shield wall and was primarily there to defend against arrow fire rather than hand to hand combat and I would think the 4 rows of 12 foot long pikes would do more to slow the enemy than a 2-foot shield....

[@TheAnon03]

8:10 One thing about shieldwalls is unless the troops are very disciplined they'll naturally compact, sometimes to the point it interferes with their ability to fight. Making sure the troops keep proper spacing was probably one of the main issues.

[@blindoutlaw]

I’ve been waiting for Rome to make the list. The shield wall and rotation of the front rank is so simple and amazing

[@rpavangchhia8953]

To be fair,most historians ive listen to say that we dont know exactly how they rotated. We have an idea of how they did it,but not exactly how.

[@manticore4952]

@@rpavangchhia8953 The rotation in Rome in my opinion looks too tight. I think the movement in the movie Spartacus where they have a bigger gap is more realistic.

[@taxult]

​@manticore4952 The massive difference is that show gives the maniple swap rather than the individual rotation, the one in HBO rome however cannot be achieved realistically

[@ziljin]

Wished historical and fantasy war movies could focus on more realistic battle formations instead of instead of the Hollywood chaotic battles where everyone breaks formation or make dumb charges. Like the Hobbit elves leaping over the dwarves shield wall or lotr elves charging into the uruk pike phalanx.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

OMG that scene in Battle of Five Armies gives me rage every time I see it. "Oh, hey, we're essentially immortal unless we die from violence right? We'll let's chuck it all and jump into the meat grinder this dwarven shield wall is DESIGNED to stop. It's not like we have bows or anything..."

[@Marveryn]

lol that scene of the elves jumping over a perfectly good looking dwarves wall show how much a Dck the elves where as didn't want to wait for the dwarf to take the orc charge and then leap over both groups and into the melee

[@aasamspb967]

LOR was fine. That trilogy should get respect. But about Hobbit, yeah you are right. What happened to Peter Jackson.

[@rpavangchhia8953]

Even hollywood movies are starting to depict it more and more accurately though. Thanks to these youtube historians i think.

[@aasamspb967]

@@vjbd2757 WB ruined Hobbit and DCEU

[@unwillfullyignorant7805]

Strange, he didn’t talk about Biggus Dickus’ major innovations not only with culture but also with shield walls.

[@darthcalanil5333]

You know what the best thing about HBO's Rome was? The freaking helmets had the cheek plates actually strapped for once!

[@levitschetter5288]

By the time of Alexander, the phalanx had evolved, originally Greeks used only heavy infantry, with 8 ft long spears that would often break at first attack, then hacking with short swords. They also wore very heavy bronze armor and a heavy shield, and in battle both armies would basically have a 5 hour shoving match until one side broke and ran, but due to their heavy armor and the fact that the enemy wasn't trying to do anything but flex their army, casualties were relatively small

[@barnacsikos7343]

nop. No shoving match, that's bs. It might have happened once or twice, but you would not want to do it intentionally

[@RicardoFuertes1990]

Alexander still used the old Hoplite (with heavy shield and "short" spear), to protect the more cumberson phalanx, since they where more agile, it complemented the use of the sarissa.

[@jakobatredies1114]

Well in 300's defense. It actually IS, initially, a fairly accurate of a what a hoplite spearwall, or phalanx, was. Granted their CGI guy couldn't be bothered to make the extra Spartans present their shields as well but. Presenting a wall of overlapping large bronze shields is correct and probably the only real representation of a hoplite phalanx...until Gates of Fire gets a film...if it gets a film.

[@AW-sl6jl]

Q

[@unknow11712]

theyr spears are quite ... shorts ... i'm not an expert on the subject , but i don't think they categorize even as spears, but short spears .

[@empiresacks3498]

@@unknow11712 if I'm not mistaken the Spartans liked having about a 6ft long spear

[@unknow11712]

@@empiresacks3498 well, yes they used that speras , but 6ft is barely inside the definition of shortspear . Now , as i mentioned , i'm not an expert. and i'm probably using a medieval definition of short spear inside a different era . ( the lenght of a spear is 9-10 ft) but in comparison to the long pyke of the classic shieldwall or a spear ( medieval i guess) , theyr spears are quite shorts.

[@alexmag342]

But overlapping shields dosent make it accurate at least not completely, they don't use the spears with overarm form, so they aren't fighting eitheir accurately or correctly. The way they use their spears would be correct if it was post enemy rout and they were hunting them down, they wouldn't be using their spears like that in a phalanx or any shieldwall formation, only loose formation would allow you to fight like they portray it in 300 and loose formation is not used in battle but after it when you chase down enemies

[@danielwolfgang8234]

It´s the Heathen Army, not horde x3 Also not to forget that King Aelle of Northumbria was supposedly "eagled" after his army lost against the Scandinavian Invasion Army.

[@TheEyez187]

"eagled"?

[@Gussyboy06]

@@TheEyez187 the blood eagle, look it up (or don't)

[@TheEyez187]

@@Gussyboy06 Ooh!! I did. Beautifully inventive! Though upon looking at it, I was reminded that I'd previously read about said people and exploits and there was some contention about how the king died. Whether he was eagled, captured, beaten and left to die in a pit of snakes or was just outright killed in battle. His demise varies depending on which source you look at; Anglo-~Saxon or Norse.

[@danielwolfgang8234]

@@TheEyez187 I am sorry, I should have elaborated this after saying it. I am refering to the Blutaar, or Blood Eagle. A supposed form of Execution practices by the Scandinavians before and during the Viking Age.

[@Astraben]

@@danielwolfgang8234 And also a myth and not at all a real practice.

[@flippingdrummer]

Dwarves in the hobbit: Battle of the five armies had an amazing shield wall for a little bit, but then the elves ruined it by hopping over it.

[@markusz4447]

I agree. makes for a good shot but is stupid and unrealistic from a tactical point of view as the elves are the best range "unit" in the tolkien universe. They would stand back and range down volley after volley of arrows.

[@smiterofbarbarians4711]

What really doesn't make sense with "The last kingdom" is how they use Native Canadian music. When I first heard it was I was like "What the frack has this to do with Anglo-Saxon England?"

[@tristinhood630]

I personally dislike the show im its entirety. At first i thought it was just a bias from being a vikings fan beforehand. But everything on last kingdom just feels off.

[@andrews.5212]

Ah the infamous "the last kingdom"! Saw the first episode and was enough! Terrible costumes, locations, photography, well everything in fact.. All danes shields were wrong, no spears whatsoever, wrong horses, wrong buildings, wrong tactics.. Why is so difficult to do basic research on these things?

[@smiterofbarbarians4711]

@@andrews.5212 I only watched the first episode too. Couldn't get past the completely inappropriate music. Sad because the books were good.

[@kyleellis9177]

Because vikings landed in canada and had a community in Newfoundland around 1000 CE. clearly a clue for direction of show. Vikings in Canada.

[@georgerausch4408]

What part of the music is native Canadian? Maybe I'm dumb or just need to listen to the right music but I don't see it 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@teetbeezoon]

Romans had scotums while Netflix Witcher's Nilfgaardians had scrotums? That armor design from the show was just hilarious, really looked like a balls sack skin after getting in cold water!🤔😅🤣

[@LunaWolf217]

Maybe it was a typo on the costume design forms? 🤔

[@reznicak]

scrotum is a purse, doesn't seem like Nilfgaardians were walking around wrapped in a purse

[@TheAchilles26]

@@reznicak, scrotum is also a modern word for ballsack, which is what the Nilfgardian armor looks like in The Witcher's Netflix series

[@Fightsome64]

@@TheAchilles26 its a man purse

[@turnerjensen2620]

In Alexander’s phalanx, the first three or four rows had their spears out to meet the enemy while the back rows were held at a 45 in an attempt to block enemy arrows

[@JohnnyOrc]

Just want to say that the shield boss was almost always placed in front of the grip of the shield, this provided extra protection for the hand holding it. It wasn't primarily used for punching with the shield, you would generally want to hit the enemy with the edge of the shield, instead. This would allow maximum force to be concentrated in a minimum area. Punching with the shield boss gives a good chance to spread out the impact area of the strike, as the wide surface area of the shield can easily hit other things.

[@Connor.SG-1Ring]

*Suggestion:* Top Sci-fi/Fantasy MacGuffins (Plot Devices).

[@chiken1627]

Time loops

[@cgi2002]

Losing power (and yet still somehow having both arfitical gravity and life support). And the Star trek extention "this system is offline, we need to find another way to do it" (dispite having a hangar full if shuttles with separate versions of the same system).

[@josephharrison8354]

Gandalf. A walking, talking plot device who knows he's a plot device.

[@Masra94]

It's a bit of a shame that actual education on shield walls and Rome is kind of lacking, even if you're actively looking for information. For the last kingdom, Anglo Saxon shield walls would pretty much never be triple reinforced with shields, even during arrow storms. The formation would be only close enough to provide cover from shields while giving room to fight. That means no overlapping of shields. That doesn't mean overlapping didn't happen, but generally you don't fight like that. In the Bayeux Tapestry overlapping is shown versus cavalry, because a tight formation looks like a literal wall to a horse. Horses won't charge what they see as solid walls and if you form up tightly enough, it's a good defence against a cavalry attack. But versus infantry, you keep your distance, so you can use the spear effectively. As for "arrow storms" from above. Pretty unlikely. Most archers did not fire in some kind of "arc", as is seen in hollywood. They simply fired straight ahead. It would be really silly to protect yourself from archers in such an extreme way seeing as archers were usually individual warriors rather than being dedicated to their own units. Usually they would comprise less than 10% of the army, maybe even as low as 5% or even less. Archers would be firing at targets of opportunity and not generally in massed volleys in this period. Even in Agincourt later on, English longbowmen fired straight, not in an arc. If you think about the amount of air which slows down the arrow and kills its penetrating power, it makes no sense to use this kind of technique in a real battle. Even if you hit, any reasonably armoured person is barely going to feel it. Plus, it makes more sense to use a few archers and spread them out so they can all fire at targets they can see rather than firing in arcing volleys. For Rome, it's the opposite of what you describe. Remember about spacing? Spearman spacing and shields walls were generally pretty tight, with just enough room to fight. Dueling would be less common. But for Romans, it was the opposite. Spacing was increased to give them even more room to fight like individuals. Dueling, slashing would be extremely common. Romans generally relied on shock and aggression to win the day, not on slow advances. That's a big reason they get annihilated at Cannae. They're aggressive and relying on that to win. The infantry pushed forward and that led to them being encircled. If the enemy didn't break they could get themselves into huge trouble, because a good formation of spearmen could go toe to toe with the Romans just fine. The pilum was not to let them act as skirmishers, it's the centerpiece of their battle plan. The heavy javelin pins the infantry and gets them off balance, maybe wounding or killing the front rank if you're lucky. That's followed by a rush of infantry, which did not always even use swords in the beginning. But the heavy javelin was there from the start. Once the enemy starts taking casualties, they might just break immediately or at least give you a solid advantage. But the main advantage of this formation is that it doesn't need flat terrain to operate. The main reason for the Roman switch from disciplined greek inspired phalanx shield walls to aggressive more widely spaced formations was so they could fight their main enemies at the time, the Samnites, in rough terrain, because the Samnites were a major threat which did not accept meeting Rome on open ground. The new Roman formations and tactics allowed them to fight as individuals in formation in any circumstances. The new formations were noticeably less heavy infantry and more flexible.

[@tunturirotko]

Thank you for that, that summarized pretty much everything I was about to write. Only thing I'd like to add is that even that Allen joked about it, the phalanx in 300 is in my opinion surprisingly good regarding of shields and spears although the rest of the historical accuracy in that movie is what it is.

[@Marveryn]

my only point is the armor that was use at the time of early shield wall, bronze didn't cover the entire body. So arrow arc would work except spear throwers, and slinger would had been more popular. Particular slingers which isn't depicted often. Like Most archers, slinger wouldn't heave a stone high in an arch either but directly. My point is that i can see early in the engament while there was some distance some archers going for the arching shot to go over a wall then direct as they close. they would also would seek high ground when possible so they could shoot down into the wall. which was why high ground has always been important in most battle. It let your archer/spears throwers and slingers vantage point to shoot over a shield while shooting straight.

[@johngallagher9151]

Alexander has been my favorite movie since I was 9 years old when it came out. And as time went by and I understood the deeper things and as I started getting into ancient history and Total War games I have only grown to love that movie even more

[@andreascj73]

The Roman shield formation was probably one of the reasons that Rome could field so many armies with very short notice. The training would ofc be in place when the armies had been in battle for months, but often - particularly pre-Marian reforms - return to their everyday life. The shield formation ensured that Rome could field army after army with more or less anyone needed.

[@GenerationFilms]

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[@tired8788]

"The Sarissa sings a sad song, he pipes it soft and low, I'd ply a gentler trade, says he, but war is all I know."

[@CulinVlau]

The Saxons would have had round shields, too. No one had small rectangular shields like that. And the bigger kite shields came later, being something the Normans used. But the Last Kingdom is, or at least was in the first 3 seasons, better at portraying battles than Vikings.

[@yorky9585]

It was known as the great heathen army . Not horde .

[@Ulvetann]

Thank You. And there were not only danes in it. Nords, or norsemen would be a much more accurate description. /norwegian

[@Cross-xm2fr]

Back in formation!

[@wkcia]

Pullo, FORMATION

[@spartanK42]

When I was a little kid (who really loved watching movies just for the battle scenes) I always wondered how two formations of infantry clashing against each other transitioned into an intermingled mess of one on one duels like we see in movies. Plus it never seemed to happen when I made huge battles in the Age of Empires editor or later when I played Total War. It wasn't until I was older that I found out that never really happened and was unrealistic lol.

[@yodaslovetoy]

THIS. IS. *SPARTA!!!*

[@theshadowling1]

The phalanx was actually very well protected against arrow fire, the cluster of pikes above the formation meant that most arrows would be knocked or deflected by the cluster of long wooden shafts, making it far safer than it would initially appear. Most arrows that did hit would loose their momentum from clipping and being nudged by the pikes, so wouldn't deal crippling wounds.

[@Nierez]

That sounds reasonable. With packed enough pikes.

[@bobbinsgaming3028]

"We don't know how things looked like a hundred years ago" - what, you mean after the First World War? I think we've got a pretty good idea, and there weren't many shield walls...

[@patrickkenyon2326]

Time is hard, apparently.

[@gabrielandradeferraz386]

surprisingly amounts of melee combat though...

[@yordanazzolin]

phalanx was also meant to defend against arrows, the people in the middle and back rows had their spears up so that the arrows wouldnt go through

[@infernothelastelemental514]

Man the last kingdom has some crazy fight scenes

[@WOLVESOFWARGAMING]

"when we think of shield walls, we think of Danes and saxons" Me: thinks of "THIS IS SPARTA"

[@vanpallandt5799]

Shieldwall aims to recreate the atmosphere of Dark Age battles in the British Isles and Northern Europe.

[@WOLVESOFWARGAMING]

@@vanpallandt5799 shield walls have existed way before and other cultures had made it more popular than the Danes and saxons. Biggest example are the Greeks, then there is the Romans.

[@vanpallandt5799]

@@WOLVESOFWARGAMING well it was popular with us. As said for us Saxons and Celts (and many wargamers) it would be Dark Ages that most would think of, though i dont dispute that the Greeks and Romans also had it..

[@WOLVESOFWARGAMING]

@@vanpallandt5799 bruh I play total war and I still think of the Spartans.

[@vanpallandt5799]

@@WOLVESOFWARGAMING i was more meaning table top figure historic wargaming though its not like you have to only play one and not other

[@victoriamatney9056]

Usual: Welcome back to an episode of generation tech my name is Allen. This time: Welcome back to and episode of Allen my name is generation tech.

[@frankknox9127]

That last one was less of a shield wall and more of a spear wall. Still pretty effective though.

[@Madjo-qj2ge]

Yari Wall best strategies on TW S2

[@willwolf8436]

Man I would love to see a Rome reboot with a bigger budget with the orignal style

[@rumblingcds]

Its Uhtred. Not Uther. You'd know it if you watched the last kingdom. You should really try watching it Its awesome.

[@themightypen1530]

This guy has the perfect voice for talking about movies and such.

[@TigerBaron]

I swear nothing can top Rome in terms of quality of ancient portrayal.

[@oskaripaakkonen6114]

Barbarians?

[@TigerBaron]

@@oskaripaakkonen6114 Except for the Latin it's just pure German propaganda. Camp had no towers, guards were drunk as fuck retards that just left a random guy and a woman in, perfect lines of fire between the Legionaries in the forest path, swords easily cut or slash through Lorica Segmentata and so on and so forth. Oh, and a warrior woman that didn't exist but was shoehorned in because muh diversity. But the Latin at the very least was definitely on point if you ask me, any other production would have used British actors speaking in well, English and trying to mimic how they spoke in Latin. Like Centurion for example, another case of blatant propaganda but this time by the Brits. The Eagle did the Romans a bit better tho, they won most of the engagements just like in real life. I mean I'm sorry but if you're going to portray the greatest ancient power and civilization that ever was and on which our modern society is mostly based on and it's soldiers that conquered pretty much all of the known world as a bunch of cowardly retards with useless equipment that they just carry around to look cool then something is obviously very wrong here.

[@skowollon84]

@@TigerBaron i agree with you on most of your comments. but the first few minutes of the fight where the roman lines were stretched thin (those before the fire scene) were pretty accurate. after that typical hollywood shizzle sets in. also thusnelda did exist. she even was brought to rome after the romans gained back the upper hand in gemany. her fighting in the varus battle is again hollywood (netflix) story telling

[@TigerBaron]

@@skowollon84 She did exist and was the wife of Arminius from what I recall, however she was never an amazon looking figure cutting down Legionaries in their prime like they were nothing.

[@skowollon84]

@@TigerBaron as i wrote. her fighting in the varus battle is again hollywood (netflix) story telling. on that i completely agree with you

[@jamessnee7171]

As I heard a Professor say once, "Ancient combat was a lot of pushing. Shoving and pushing." A large group of men (or people) packed together can generate an enormous force. I remember the kids killed, crushed at concerts before they got rid of general seating. Due to the crowd pushing forward. Or at soccer games from time to time, practically squeezing people through a chain link fence. Basically turned a bunch of guys into a giant tank.

[@jansandman6983]

Generation Films: Roman Legionnaire fights this way Richard Burton: Hold my beer

[@joshuahogan3475]

Another amusing historical inaccuracy about Alfred was the idea he was a great warrior. He was not, he was actually quite sickly. He made up for his weak physique with a keen mind and amazing leadership. It was his abilities as a general and administrator that did more to save his kingdom than a strong sword arm ever could.

[@GenerationFilms]

They actually get that mostly right in the last kingdom

[@joshuahogan3475]

@@GenerationFilms a Hollywood historical drama that gets the facts mostly right? Is that even possible? O.O

[@ilijas3041]

@@joshuahogan3475 not hollywood. BBC and then took over by Netflix I think

[@joshuahogan3475]

@@ilijas3041 Netflix and Hollywood are pretty much synonymous. BBC is better but "better" is a pretty low bar when it comes to Hollywood and historical accuracy. 😄

[@ilijas3041]

@@joshuahogan3475 I agree, I just wanted to say that The Last Kingdom is somewhat more intelligent in its approach. They intended to make content accessible for a wide audience, and they introduced some visual markers that pretty much violate historical accuracy but were seen as necessary for the audience to be able to tell difference between main groups of antagonists in the show... they explained it in one of the BTS videos... so at least there is some reasoning behind it, its not just all medieval tropes known to mankind tightly packed into a small box of audience-pleasing gifts

[@0MVR_0]

Phalongitai is a spearwall rather than shieldwall formation. The word means 'fingers' in Greek and is akin to the Swiss pike in deployment.

[@fatalshore5068]

Ah you got me good with that 300 call. I was audibly groaning...'nooo...'

[@ronanshanley7829]

"We don't know how these [shield walls] looked 100 years ago." Bruh, you know shield walls have been obsolete for at least 400 years right?

[@scottbraun2457]

I think you guys should share this episode with Shad of SHADIVERSITY. This certainly one of the sorts of things he appreciates; shows with historical accuracy in their battles. I'm not hardly the enthusiast, he is, but I do appreciate the effort, when it's made. --Even if only done, just to look right. Still, the closer to actually right, always gets more points with us both.

[@oliverworley5162]

Good to see a shad fan hear. And I strongly agree, an unexpected alliance, but a welcome one

[@revdav1573]

It's Uhtred of Bebbanburg. Based on The Saxon Stories book series. Historical fiction on the formation of England.

[@TheJennick13]

Outstanding!!!! I'm a HUGE history dork & you not only covered several of my favorite shows/movies but yr explanations were very consise & accurate for how quickly you were going!!! I salute you & say much thanks for putting such informative & extremely entertaining episodes in so many of my favorite interests out for me to enjoy!!!!! My dog keeps looking funny at me when I'm making comments, asking questions & laughing at my phone now when watching them- he thinks I'm talking to myself...again!!!!!

[@justinreilly6619]

Rome was a great series that was cancelled too soon. I'm really enjoying The Last Kingdom, the next series is out sometime this year. I wanted to enjoy Alexander, but although it looked great, I can't remember why, but I was disappointed.

[@sirilluminarthevaliant2895]

I mean shield walls did get broken. The writer of the Saxon tales Bernard Cornwall (what last kingdom is *loosely* based on) Does give sources

[@shacklock01]

Both vikings and Last Kingdom tried to be realistic in their 9th century combat but then just got tired and went all in on Spartacus style fantasy shit with everyone brawling like an iron age celt or german

[@epitherex]

People forget “the 300 Spartans” 1962 They do good phalanx

[@lordwellingtonthethird8486]

The problem with films and TV shows is they miss the glaring problem. The massively exposed flanks.

[@andreasottohansen7338]

Just looking at the title, I immediately wanted to blare Amon Amarth's "Shield Wall"

[@bushwhackerinc.4668]

"HOlD thE frONt LinE"

[@TheOpalHammer]

No clue why all shield walls are depicted as massive scrums with both sides pushing one another. It would be very rare to see it in the ancient world, and when it did happen, everyone was far more focused on stabbing over pushing their shield into someone else's.

[@path1024]

The whole idea that it was some kind of shoving match is ridiculous. Throwing your body against an enemy that's stabbing at you would be suicide and the battles would have been over much faster. A charge wasn't an attempt to bulldoze the enemy... not even from horseback.

[@vanpallandt5799]

@@path1024 hmmm..its still not clear what you propose happened then. The stood in two line about a foot apart and stabbed at each other with spears? with most of that being deflated by shields. Certainly in Dark Ages there would have been the more professional warriors with doubled handed axes etc attempting to smash through

[@Debbiebabe69]

What was that film at 0:14? The one with the slipping knight and the used knight lying on the floor? Also, 300 was probably THE film that brought the concept of the shieldwall to people unfamiliar with the concept, and showed how powerful a tactic it was....

[@juancolorado9577]

The king, it's on Netflix

[@HouseOfAndrew]

I love The Last Kingdom. Bernard Cornwell is a wonderful writer and loves shield walls. He had tons of them in his book trilogy "The Warlord Chronicles"

[@drandersjiang]

Fun fact: in the film Alexander's Battle of Gauguamela scene, if you look carefully, you can actually see Greeks mercenaries (with hoplon shields) in the employment of Darius III. They were refugees who left after their homelands were conquered by the Macedonians.

[@Zeitgeist2000]

the first of the three photos in the thumbnail isnt a shield wall, its a phalanx Phalanx was more about the long point sticks forming a wall than it was about the shields

[@Robo5apien]

"A hundred years ago" 1921 lol. Being a millennial is great😂😂

[@brianr.6376]

Were you born in 1921? I don't see how his mistake is due to him being a millennial

[@Robo5apien]

@@brianr.6376 we do not see 1990 as 30 years ago it affects how we talk about time, it's weird but happens.

[@bryanthesmith4441]

@@Robo5apien I was born in 1955 and when I look back I do not consider the 20th century ancient history, but people born in this then21st century tend to look back the same way I do to the19th century. Its really all relative to personal experience.

[@ericboyle8296]

Nice job, however you should have stuck with the Spartans. Macedonian phalangites didn't fight in a shield wall. Greek hoplite formations were more effectively a shield wall then a Macedonian pike phalanx. They relied on the apsis much more and it factored in to how the formations were formed and fought. The pikeman's shield was much smaller because they had to hold the pike with both hands. You can see that in the scene. Their shield was not relied upon like true shield wall armies. As a side note the pikes were used to disrupt missile fire unlike in the movie. I would recommend reading "An Invincible Beast" by Christopher Matthew for a detailed study of the pike phalanx.

[@davidmcintyre8145]

The main weapon used in a shield wall was likely to have bean a Seax or long knife something similar to a Gladius which did not need the space to use that a spear,sword or axe does. In fact in the books Uthred uses his Seax Wasp Sting more often than his longer bladed sword Serpent Breath in major engagements

[@TheAchilles26]

Spears were the dominant weapon of shield walls. Primarily in the overarm grip due to the confines of the formation.

[@davidmcintyre8145]

@@TheAchilles26 A spear is too long and can cause problems for the men in the second and third rank. remember that unlike the Sarissa armed Greek and Macedonian phalanx North European shield walls and swine's heads were derivations of Roman formations

[@TheAchilles26]

@@davidmcintyre8145, you're just utterly wrong about a spear being too long to use in a shield wall. The overarm grip was specifically to avoid causing problems for the men behind the wielder, as it puts the backswing over their heads instead of into their ribs. Furthermore, the Greek phalanx with overlapping hoplons was not using the sarissa, but an earlier and shorter spear variant.

[@davidmcintyre8145]

@@TheAchilles26 The hoplon spear is one thing but I am talking about the Norse or Saxon shield wall where the dominant weapons were short stabbing blades and the fight was as much a pushing contest as anything else being fought at what is known as the third measure in other words mere inches from your opponents

[@TheAchilles26]

@@davidmcintyre8145, the hoplon spear is comparable in length to the spears Norse, Danes, and Saxons would have been using in a shield wall. And was the primary weapon in hoplite warfare despite the othismos, aka "bigass pushing match" being such a prominent feature of hoplite warfare that it is the main reason their shields were curved, so that warriors crushed up against their own shields could still breathe properly. You're just plain utterly wrong.

[@kennethstople3969]

In Alexander, those are not hoplites, they are phalangetes. Difference is that hoplites are armed with a spear around 2 meters, while the phalangetes use sarissas around 4-6 meters. Also the way phalanx is used is wrong. Phalanx is the name of the formation, not the individual soldier. The individual soldier is called a hoplite. Edit: The C in Macedonia/Macedon is a K.

[@Phil-D83]

The roman approach was better than the tight phalanx approach of the Greeks.

[@fatalshore5068]

Way more flexible and the troop rotations in and out was exceptional tactics

[@Phil-D83]

@@colonel.halberstern5893 phalanx has its advantages. Ultimately, Rome conquered Greece because the phalanx were not up to stopping the legions.

[@Cetok01]

I liked the 'battle-box' scene early in 'The Eagle', and also the brief battle at the beginning of 'Risen', where the testudo formation was used as a ramp for following troops to charge up an embankment.

[@Edvinlofgren89]

I don't even like sports, but I appreciate that you said "American Football", and not just the latter, for some reason.

[@hodgeman]

The show Rome is excellent, quite a big budget as it is by HBO (same company that did Game of Thrones). The brotherhood shown between the two main characters is awesome. I highly recommend others to watch it.

[@devildog1989]

I was hoping that you'd mention Alexander

[@nathandomke2721]

Everything Rome did was ahead of it's time, extremely elegant and efficient, super streamlined and organized...really makes you question if the progression of evolution and human technology is really what they say it is..

[@jansandman6983]

I remembered playing Original Rome Total War which I placed a Hoplite phalanx in a tight alley way to keep a literally a whole invading army at bay while eating popcorn and waiting for time to expire.

[@cyfertea8707]

I never really liked Phalanx, don't get me wrong it's really cool. But it doesn't fit my play style of constantly maneuvering my army, that's why I prefer the good ol romans. But I had to play Greek states for a bit (because my friend insisted) and it was just constant casualty for me since it's hard to macro every single phalanx unit (because for them to move fast I disabled the phalanx formation and sometimes forgot to turn it back on when charging). So I had to start using cavalry which sucks because the greekstates cavalry is just bad. So I tried Macedonians which I ended up liking for their cavalry.

[@peterlewerin4213]

The CapsLock was _this_ close to being activated when I thought that 300 was going to be used as an example.

[@kristiannicholson5893]

IIRC Gaugamela may be one of the last recorded uses of chariots actually used in battle. By this time in history they had been completely supplanted by cavalry and chariots became mostly for transportation such as the Britons used and not actually deployed against enemies.

[@BigCMiner]

I love the last kingdom so much, it dosnt get nearly enough recognition. Yes it has some inaccuracies but most of the history is accurate in terms of timeline.

[@Santisima_Trinidad]

Yeah. It's based on the book series by Bernard cornwell, who also did the Sharpe series. Some of the most historically accurate and generally best historical fiction in the business. From what I've heard to shows made from his books were all a bit shit, but clearly not completely terrible.

[@CHIL2903]

@@Santisima_Trinidad His Grail Quest trilogy isn't bad either, Nial. They chronicle the life of an archer during the 100 years war.

[@Santisima_Trinidad]

@@CHIL2903 yeah, grail quest was great. I do find it funny how the books all have a him being salty at the end because he had to change the name of the first one when it was being sold in America Because of a series' of "romantic" novels which had the same name.

[@CHIL2903]

@@Santisima_Trinidad I know, and talking of changing things for the US market, I was reading an article on the "Vikings" series. Apparently, all the sex and violence scenes had to be cut before it could shown. What the hell was left to watch after this, God only knows!

[@Santisima_Trinidad]

@@CHIL2903 Jesus. That's both my reaction, and what would be left, given my understanding of viking media..

[@KingofDiamonds117]

at 4:30 a similar thing happened during one of the holy wars to retake israel. The christian king was so eager to fight the arabs that he jumped off his boat with his horse and charged the enemy alone. The enemy was so dumbfounded that they didn't even bother to surround and kill him. The islamic king was so impressed by the christian kings bravery that they eventually became best friends and decided to postpone the war, both eager to meet eachother on the battlefield again. Saddly, that was never meant to be, as one of the kings died of disease. I don't remember their names, but it was one of my favorite historical moments to read about when I was a kid.

[@nathanielwilcox4947]

The Gladius, while being primarily used for thrusting, it can cut quite well.

[@ecrusch]

I just read a shitload of these comments and some of these guys are WAY too into it......

[@roryedward2631]

House Bolton in game of thrones had the best shields ive seen in TV or movies in my opinion. They were long, to cover the length of their bodies, and had spikes at the bottom, to stick in the ground to help keep them in place when charged.

[@catocall7323]

That's called a pavise and there's a reason it wasn't actually used much historically

[@TheAchilles26]

@@catocall7323, it was used plenty. Just, you know, by crossbowmen instead of heavy infantry.

[@PerunsZGRevenge]

Surprisingly well informed video. Nice! One small thing to note: @08:20 you say that legionaries fought in more spacious formations because they could unlike peasant levies display individual skill. This is kind of wrong. You have rightly insinuated in the video thus far that individual duels weren't really a thing on the battlefield, ever. Legionaries didn't fight in spacious formations, they fought in elaborate formations, because unlike peasant levies they were highly disciplined, professional, and trained to maintain formations. You don't strive to do your job "heroically" or very skillfully, you strive towards maximum efficiency, especially when your life's on the line.

[@TheRewasder97]

10:10 that isn't accurate tho. Yes, the greek phalanx was a defensive strategy, but what made the macedonian pike wall so effective is that it was actually an offensive machine. The pike wall would continue to advance trampling everything in his way under their long spears.

[@jerryparks7486]

Nice shout out to the Pilum. It was effective against shelds, not only because of the weight but also because the the metal shaft it was made of iron (correct me if I'm worng) which is softer then the steele of modern blades today. It would bend down after Impact causing the wooden handle to stick into the ground. Most shelds of the barbarians were made of hide if in not mistaken. I am a big fan of the roman military tactics of that time period. As well as the Phalanx.

[@plymouth5714]

Most 'barbarian' shields were made of a light wood, possibly ash or similar (I think lime was also used) but some were then covered in hide to weather proof and provide extra protection. Hide shields were mainly an African product such as the Zulu war shields. Even those could stop a spear thrust or dull a sword slash but wouldn't stop a cavalry lance (or a Martini Henry bullet of course)! Many ancient levy type troops carried a wickerwork shield, might deflect a bronze sword slash if you were lucky and caught it flat on, but hopeless against spear points!

[@brennangum6236]

Thats the sarissa phalanx. It was an improvement on the regular phalanx formation which had people using regular sized spears and attacking over the shield

[@PaulMB40]

Incisive and articulate breakdown, mate. Thank you. Glad I found your channel.

[@Comicsluvr]

Another great demonstration of Roman tactics is the opening scene of Gladiator. The Roman cohorts against the Germanic tribes is great and not too bad in terms of accuracy.

[@zadianvwhgaming]

some of the shield walls in The Last Kingdom (show about a 40-45 year period from 866AD-912AD)

[@arailway8809]

Excellent, excellent, excellent. The visuals are great. While I do not expect the smell, I was looking forward to the sounds of an army in the field. It is an awesome thing.

[@billparker244]

The whole premise behind pila continues to be a question. Some historians now believe it may have been for the simple re-usability of the metal piece attached to the end of the stick. This would suggest that for purposes of travel and encumbrance, only the metal portion would be carried to and fro, while the wooden shaft would've been manufactured on site as required (perhaps by the individual soldiers themselves as a part of their basic training). Probably not in austere environments like a desert though, but the Roman army was adaptable if nothing else and might've kept a minimum supply of the finished product. This is also supported by the fact that they later adapted throwing darts as a replacement, which is basically a weighted version of the metal portion of the pilum. I didn't learn this from a youtube video or a game. I learned it from a book, and no, I'm not an expert/historian. Has anyone else ever read or heard the same? Let me know. Triplex Acies is also a hot debate. There's theoretical evidence to support that they stayed in checkerboard formation during the entire battle. Somebody blow my balls off.

[@markmatson]

"In 2021...when one says shield walls we immediately think of..." I was so disappointed "Portland" wasn't the next word out.

[@ikatchklowns1797]

Last kingdom is soooo fucking good and realistic

[@JimBox810]

This was one of if not the most entertaining video i have seen thus far this year.