Battle of Peridea: Thrawns Tactical Mistakes Analyzed

While Thrawn did a terrific job isolating Ahsoka and the Jedi early on during the conflict on Peridea, his actions in the latter half of the battle were a bit confusing. We take a look at the many mistakes Thrawn made during his skirmish against Ashoka Tano while trying to escape back to the Star Wars Galaxy.
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[@TheBigExclusive]

Don't you love how Star Destroyer blasts barely do any damage , and people can stand right next to the explosion impact with no problems?

[@carlosvidaurre5234]

I know right, can't even imagine how long would a Base Delta Zero would take with that firepower

[@Sergiblacklist]

It's not firing shells it's just laser blasts so theirs no explosion just displacement of material.

[@thalmoragent9344]

Facts, that was hella odd

[@thalmoragent9344]

​@@Sergiblacklist They don't fire shells as it is... supposed to be OP lasers

[@ericp1139]

That was the most frustrating part. Filoni should know how devastating a Star Destroyer bombardment is. It was inexcusable they were able to survive that ride.

[@Emanon...]

He even failed at conserving his resources by being so "prudent". By being restrictive with troop deployments he ultimately allowed for larger losses and essentially was defeated in detail several times by a vastly inferior force. Tactics 101: Play to your strengths. If the writers aren't good at writing military tactics, don't expect a brilliant Thrawn on the show.

[@Otterdisappointment]

I don’t know how he planned on winning anything with

[@andrewmartin9948]

They couldn't write what wouldve happened if it actually worked as intended or it would have ended the series right there and broken the plot armor and hero dynamic. It's very sad but had to be that way for a general audience.

[@shawn092182]

Thrawn tried to stopped his enemy. Therefore, he did not succeed in stopping his enemy. "Do or do not. There is no try." - Grandmaster Yoda.

[@lentztu]

I can’t stand the “military tactics” in the Filoni verse. Clone wars is great but I cant watch the war scenes because they are so bad.

[@TiL_Deimos]

@@lentztui just wanna say, when you have an overwhelming force of soldiers, sometimes all you gotta wait for is the lucky shooters that end it. training bwah, who needs that when you have thousands of soldiers shooting thousands of lazers (not thrawns as they are limited, but not trained in the slightest due to being used to having an ultimate army of millions.)

[@aster4jaden]

Unfortunately not even Thrawn can overcome Plot Armor.

[@deewatsoon6036]

Plot armor had nothing to do with his death in Legends...

[@williamflowers9435]

Or overcome Disney’s insistence on portraying men as idiots and women as emotionless planks who aren’t fazed by anything

[@dangtoons1760]

Would have been very interesting if Thrawn had been cornered to confess to Morgan that everything we saw; inventory and men were literally all he had left. That the Chimeras repulsor lifts were the only propulsion, power and fuel that remained. Show the barely air tight Chimera shuddering, creaking and groaning to stay aloft. I know it's only real purpose now was as a promised shipping container, but it'd been cool to have someone insist that they simply return on the EYE. One or two lines to illustrate his unwillingness to abandon the repairable Chimera, to confess it's inability to move, his inability to overwhelm, his need to settle for delay-defend-distract and sacrifice as his only strategies. To show how Morgan had simultaneously offered him a rescue and put him near check-mate by bringing the Jedi. That's what cost Morgan her life. King sacrifices Queen near check-mate.

[@thechunkmaster8794]

Isn't this kind of what happened?

[@BingLing-vz3og]

Thumbs up and hard agree, I believe that this is what Filoni likely wanted to portray, but the execution was lacking. It wouldn't take much either, during the part where Thrawn was talking to Morgan about tactics, he could've added that given his current resources and situation, there's nothing he can do except for delay-defend-distract and sacrifice

[@sixwashington4]

Thrawn and the empire in general, are the coolest thing going in this show. Yet, I totally agree with what you said. You stated the obvious very diplomatically and Thrawn is definitely not the brilliant leader we know from the Zahn novels. I like Ahsoka better than anything since Mando 1&2. But it’s weak in so many ways. Child-like really. Very basic without true intelligence. They need to add a few consultants so they make this stuff a bit smarter.

[@Uncle_Fred]

My biggest complaint isn't even the lazy plot. The writing is disappointingly on-the-nose. Everything offered is one-note with little depth. Filioni needs to go watch some Kubrick films and improve his dialogue by watching some Tarantino movies.

[@MrKWiley918]

To be honest, in the scene with the 3 heros on the stairs deflecting blaster bolts, they looked like they were dancing on a stage.

[@Orca_Blacksail]

Agreed on Thrawn's demeanor vs Rebels. He was more Tywin Lannister in rebels including the resemblance. For live TV turning up the ruthless might be the way to go though.

[@TheOwlofAthens]

Why didn't Thrawn just blow up the tower when he was finished? Some explosives on the lowest level, boom tower gone.

[@Nervete]

Nice to get a break from all the tragic news to watch some Generation Tech.

[@Fedaygin]

Indeed 💯% Good new week o/ 📺🍵🧘 [Forever M+ Subber who waits for The Skeleton Crew like seeing full moon above sandy beach] ⏳

[@ForestRaptor]

huh?@@Fedaygin

[@TheGeoCheese]

I don’t think Thrawn had any intentions to win the fight but to learn as much as he can. You have to remember he just found out the Empire has fallen to the Rebellion and has become the New Republic and he has plans to begin his campaign to restore the empire. He knows very well he will not have another opportunity to learn how a Jedi thinks so he’s taking the time to learn what he can and then leave. He knows he has already won but he doesn’t want to miss out on the chance of learning his potential adversaries capabilities before leaving.

[@superdivemaster]

You are right about the multi star-trooper choreography ... Looked like the Puppet Space Shows !!!

[@michaelmcpherson915]

I agree with you on the Thrawn not moving the Chimera. Other than that, I think he played it decently. He was walking the fine line of trying to make sure he got away, without overcommitting forces. Only send the troops you are willing to lose. And ultimately, he did succeed in escaping Peridea, and who knows the news of Thrawn's return will likely work to his favor, as there are plenty in the New Republic who would be more than willing to switch sides, once that news gets out. I think he is situated very well.

[@AntonNight]

To me, a lot of Thrawn’s moves were based on finding out that Ahsoka is Anakin Skywalker’s Padawan. It feels like after that he switched to a stance of ‘NOPE. Nope. I am NOT dealing with that. No thank you.’ And basically focused on just keeping Ahsoka specifically from boarding the Chimera. The Death Troopers didn’t guarantee that, but Morgan with her enchanted blade was something that Ahsoka would have voluntarily faced herself. Even if Ezra and Sabine managed to board, he would have considered it a victory because Ahsoka is a whole different beast who very well could have made the return trip to the Galaxy Far Far Away a fatal one for him and much of his crew. But by keeping his star destroyer in place to bait her to come into a fight on his terms, stacking it on such a way that she has to focus on fighting overwhelming forces, he can force her to juggle between escape and survival. Best case scenario, she dies. Worst case scenario, she doesn’t get on board.

[@granatmof]

Honestly I'll maintain Thrawn is not brilliant tactician, but he's a competent military commander in a galaxy of otherwise incompetent commanders. The difference is subtle, after all everyone is written by screenwriters and book writers. So for examples of how everyone is incompetent: at the outbreak of the Clone Wars, Jedi lead Clone troopers to charge across open terrain to attack enemy armor. Why? The Empire invests in the Tarkin doctrine when it would have been cheaper to prevent Rebellion by literally bribing the people. Make everyone's lives better under the empire and suddenly no one wants to rebel. Who needs democracy if God king meets all our needs? The Emperor then doubles down and personally goes to the Death Star instead of using a decoy. In the Mandalorian, the Mandalorians have a reputation as great warriors. In season 3 we see them funnel into kill boxes and get suppressed by a heavy weapon implacemnt, almost as if none of them are carrying back and wrist mounted rockets. They don't seize the high ground, establish an overwatch. All of these are peak strategy (including assuming the high ground is a strength in a sword fight, it's not) of screen writers. Competent tactics would run rough shod over everyone. I would hope they do an Infinity War Style Thrawn series where he's the protagonist in a way, leading essentially an Imperial Rebellion against the New Republic. Strategically there's a huge oppurtunity for him to operate as a pirate fleet or even multiple pirate fleets around the New Republic, to gain resources, steal ships, build up their forces, give field training to recruits. All while allowing the New Republic to overlook the pirate threats in the rim. It reduces the New Republic military from suddenly getting funding and direction, while undermines republic support on the fringes. He could even capture New Republic frigates, which are much more resource efficient compared to his ISD, and possibly event start production on the TIE defender or other more optimal fighter and boarding craft. The when he has resources gathered to launch simultaneous attacks across the galaxy as an Imperial Warlord, then maybe he can scare the Republic enough to claim several systems who would flock to him to gain safety from the "pirates"

[@thereseemstobeenanerror1219]

On one hand, you're right. But on the other hand, I generally don't think. Starwars would be able to handle people actually using proper tactics.

[@AmelityshTV]

What if Thrawn new that Morgan was loyal to the Nightsisters, rather than Thrawn himself. That would mean the "mistakes" were perfectly crafted to give a reason to lose Morgan. If she's such a powerful character, logistically and as a Nightsister, and is so close to Thrawn but not loyal to him directly, then everything suddenly makes sense. He can't just outright get rid of her, that might set off the other Nightsisters, and if he were to let her live and get rid of her then she may become a problem further down the line. At this point Thrawn knows how hard it is to defeat Force users and is pretty paranoid about them now. Instead he makes sure there's a reason to leave her, and by the time they're far enough away that they wouldn't be able to get her back, he opens fire on the building. We see this agitates the Nightsisters, but as they were already leaving her, it no longer matters. Thrawn can now absorb Morgan's old assets into his Imperial Remnant without the fear of her using said assets against him.

[@lovalmidas]

If Thrawn was viewing Ashoka as a copy of Anakin Skywalker, sending any amount of fighters above the minimum would be stupid. :D He expected that sending 12 fighters would result in the loss of all 12 fighters, because Anakin is just that good. Also, he would have to contend with the possibility of the Jedi managing to recover 3 or more TIEs from the fallen group and maintain their advance. Two fighters has just low enough capacity to require the group split, and we can figure out that they won't split up.

[@andretonsil7784]

He doesn't waste resources, Mr Tech. Just enough to make a point.

[@phillipthegeek]

I suspect that Star Destroyer while looking impressive on the outside I suspect its being held together by multiple rolls of OB’s duct tape. Try to move it again and an engine drops out of the back. I’m sure you have had toys where you have lost the plastic battery lid on the back - Thrawn has just gone and lost a Destroyer cargo hold sized one of these.

[@AntonsPcelins]

All I gotta say is, everything that was before he said "Prepare for ground assault" and after Ezra got into the Chimera, was pure stupidity and I was unable to suspend my disbelief at all. Other than that, it made sense more or less.

[@Conundrum191]

They didn't even need to send the TIEs...prepare the Chimera to enter orbit and calculate a firing position on the Jedi shuttle/convoy. Turn that spot and 100km around it into glass.

[@BrokenRose-mu6kx]

About sending all the ties. I was thinking along the line of "What if he sends all his ties and succeeds, but everyone of them are destroyed in the process. Then once he returns back to the original galaxy, he's tie less. I for one would criticize that heavily if they went that route given he doesn't know what he may run into. There's danger here for sure, but the unknown of the future is also a thing. A bunch of random pirates may attack him in the outer rim. Being without ties in that instance would be a death sentence and very lame.

[@vaughane.560]

The Chimera must be really low on power because an ISD releasing hellfire in a target usually results in an area being glassed. They barely scuffed Ashoka’s montrails.

[@BrockSamsonite]

Its simple... they brought the ring into the atmosphere to dock because the docking procedure requires the two docking objects to be traveling the same speed in order to dock without crashing into each other because they are so massive and require precise control. Pulling the ring into the planets atomsphere makes it so both the star destroyer and ring are traveling through space at the same speed because they are both within the planet perideas gravitational pull.

[@ShawnF0912]

I felt that the writing was lacking when it came to Thrawn's plan. Its literally like rubber banding in racing games where the AI falls back in the mid part of the race only to come back during the final lap.

[@carlsu5248]

the ending shows that thrawn was a great leader, Even when stranded on an isolatet world in an entirely different galaxy, with limited supplies etc. his soldiers where loyal to him and even volunteered to die for him

[@Justicar333]

Thrawn wasn't underestimating the Jedi when he sent two fighters. I've seen a lot of folks misunderstand that but as a Thrawn fan you should know better. How many times have we seen jedi's in ships annihilate opposing fighter forces? He sent two, enough to get in an opening shot which they did. Disabling the ship temporarily. The more fighters sent the more likely they would be spotted before they could engage. And the more sent the less he had left. Thrawn's know Jedi effectively have plot armor. Send his last dozen fighters after them and there is a very good chance he will be left with not fighters and no assurance the Jedi was dead for the cost. Not to mention he might need to fight a battle before he can reinforce even back in their own galaxy. Those fighters were far more precious to defend against conventional enemies. Then throwing them into a fire against a Jedi he was safest to avoid confronting directly. The fighters made sense. If anything I'm amazed the disabled the Jedi ship and put it down to successfully managing to surprise them. That stupid thing was TANKING TURBOLASERS from the eye of Sion for a good while there. If it's defenses had been up and the Jedi on board no way in hell a mere squadron of tie fighters could have taken it.

[@s0515033]

A lot of people here are overestimating how good the original Thrawn was. His writing was less amazing and the New Republic was just dumb. They were written to be incompetent. Thrawn was the dude who had a bodyguard from an enslaved race aboard his ship...the same bodyguard who kills him. Not exactly 200IQ move. He was also beaten several times canonically. People got this weird cult-like worship of Thrawn being godly. YOur average writer is not in the military, nor would even a military officer necessarily be a genius strategist. So you are unlikely to actually get that level of performance. Temper your expectations unless you think Disney is going to hire a genius military officer to write Thrawn.

[@thetruth7130]

How about use the original writer who still alive let him write and do checks and balances to make sure thrawn is right I'm not happy with his appearance he doesn't have pupils and his eyes do not glow

[@pashatemurtem]

I couldn't agree with youmore, Allen. I told myself that Thrawn as a villain-foilage is a needed expedient in the Disney formula, that this brief,(brief due likely to the need for economy) season had to include a lot of exposition, backstory, and that I was going to have to let go of the complex and anti-hero finely wrought by Timothy Zahn, creator of Thrawn, and wait for a second season before drawing conclusions. Ahsoka and Thrawn and Rebels crew are all great characters. I want this to be a success. In the second season, there will be room for more plot. Still, they have left plot holes a plenty or is it mystery. Honestly, season 1 is a varitable sponge of mystery: Thrawn has not fared well in exile. We know him to be fit and resourceful as a "cast away." This is not his first rodeo! He is run down. Ship's provisions have run out and available nutrients must be grown on board or gathered or...nah! But...have they...? So, are there no more officers left? We know that Thrawn has acted a part before. Anyhow, who knows with what the rest of Thrawn's fleet has had to contend and / or survive?! Whatever we it was, Thrawn seems worse for wear, and I am wondering if fear and paranoia have gotten the better of him?

[@richroll9894]

Unless Thrawn is hesitant to send ANY assets outside the protective circle of screaming statues because something that can possess sentient beings may wake up if too much ruckus gets made. Something as outlandish compared to the normal Force as the Force is to Thrawn’s tactical sensibilities, perhaps? Something he ultimately knows he can’t quantify it so he’s simply trying to leave it behind?

[@wintermute1]

Purrgil are full blown cosmic horror and Jedi making some sort of deal with them is pretty sus especially considering they made deals with Dathomir Witches

[@andrewlim9345]

While the choreography, production values and costumes were beautiful, I agree that the Ahsoka series had too much plot armour. They ended up watering down Thrawn in order to ensure that Ahsoka, Sabine and Ezra survive. Making Sabine a Force-user felt rushed and shoehorned.

[@joshlachance3703]

plot armor aside, it's clear to see that thrawn has stressed his fuel reserves and likely supplies of tabana gas for the turbo lasers. he has been fighting something for 10 years, a brutal war of attrition with Ezra seeming to be behind at least a platoons worth of storm troopers. with fuel having been used in star wars mostly only taking president now a days, it makes sense that something as costly as an ISD 1 would be practically done by now. then we add the mine field he laid prior to the whales arrival, fuel was likely at fume levels. thrawn is depicted in legends as setting up the entire empire of the hand, if he was able to set up even limited manufacturing, means there is something far more deadly than Ezra. ISD came with entire mobile base prefabs in their holds along with industrial fabricators. they were designed to dominate entire star systems single handed.

[@Skye_Writer]

This all comes back to the fact that no one can write Thrawn's strategies like Zahn. No other writer has been able to capture his brilliance. Zahn says that planning Thrawn's battles is "basically playing chess against yourself." That _sounds_ simple enough, but have you ever really played chess against yourself where you legitimately try to get a win not just for one side, but you are REALLY trying to win when you play on the opposite side of the board? It's INCREDIBLY hard to do. HOWEVER, as much as I really want Zahn to be the only guy who writes him, I recognize the fact that writing a novel and writing for a TV show are two _very_ different skills, and Zahn may not have what is needed to pull that off. I do hope that they at least actively sit down with him and say, "Ok, this is where we need Thrawn to end up so these characters can face off against him; how would he get there, and what would he do when he is face to face with them?" Sit down and "play chess" with him. Ahsoka does this, what is Thrawn's counter? What would he know for sure that this group would do so he can plan a surprise attack? How do we catch him off guard here? Granted, a lot of Thrawn being able to say, "No, the Rebels are not actually going to attack here, they will attack there instead" despite all evidence to the contrary comes from the fact he is being written by an omniscient author who knows the Rebels' real plan. All things considered, there are some times in the HTTE trilogy when I would shake my head and declare there was NO way he could ACTUALLY know that, it was just Zahn making him omnipotent. Still, Zahn had a way with selling readers on the outcome. We need more of that, and dagnabit, we need an Eli or a Gilad for Thrawn to really _explain_ his tactics to. He didn't do that--not much--with Morgan.

[@schutzaustin]

I think everything changes if you imagine that the goal was actually to get rid of Morgan Elsbeth, who I think he knew was a wildcard he didn't want to deal with.

[@joshtaylor9626]

Hey Allen I think your going to hit 1 mil in a year or 2

[@sagenod440]

Writers must be intelligent enough together to write an intelligent character

[@chadbrad8100]

facts

[@MidnightWanderer]

They could have taken a page out of some of TWD action sequences...a lot of them are pretty good for fighting slow shuffling enemies.

[@georgerogers2257]

Sometimes it is a matter of getting rid of future competition while they are loyal to you (Morgan could've possibly represent a threat to Thrawn's authority later on down the line).

[@ForestRaptor]

I am not going to lie. I kinda of lie on that boat. because Morgan has shown to be very competent and willful.

[@colleens1107]

What makes Thrawn’s villainy even worse is that, unless you read the books, you won’t know that he didn’t start out a villain. He is a goddamn exiled hero who nearly single handedly saved the Ascendancy from an attack that would have destroyed them. The books showed how power slowly corrupted him and how the pressure from the Emperor was wearing on him. He was a good man with good intentions that fell, like so many before him. And I’m calling it, Disney will NEVER even mention the Grysk. Too bad because Lars is awesome and deserves a better written character

[@MurasakiMonogatari]

Being intelligent enough to see plot holes and bad writing is not a character flaw😅

[@Wriath9]

I think most of the problem come from the fact that Filoni probably decided early on that he wanted to get Ezra and Thrawn back to the star wars galaxy but not anyone else and forced events to play out that way. I really don't see a reason why Ezra has to be back as well right now.

[@seangrey]

i called the exact same thing when he ordered a ground assault '' WHY? just fly the f### away''

[@daniels7907]

I suspect that Thrawn is a bit rusty after a decade on a single, uncivilized, planet. He's being very conservative with his forces away from the Chimera because he's had to make do without replacement personnel all these years. Another thing I wonder about is if reaching the tower was the Chimera's last gasp. If the repulsorlifts were still working well then he might as well have been docked there the whole time, or at least nearby. The ship may have spent most of its time on Peridea parked. This is the kind of thing where the lack of exposition that screen-based media creates results in plot holes.

[@SuperSaiyanD48]

Even Napoleon showed a bit of a dulled edge as he got older.

[@daniels7907]

@@SuperSaiyanD48 - The Duke of Wellington would certainly have agreed. Thrawn isn't young and he missed a lot of events that happened back in the GFFA during his exile. This doesn't mean he's not extremely dangerous. Just that he may be out of practice. If Ezra was opposing him, he was doing so guerilla style, not in open confrontations. Thrawn knows what Jedi are capable of, but it's been a while since he's had to deal with any except for Ezra. He's likely a bigger threat to the New Republic because the Senate has the military on a leash despite (or because of) being in denial that they even face any military threats. Thrawn's reappearance to rally the Imperial Remnant, probably including all those ex-Imperials "at all levels of the New Republic government" is a serious danger. There's no way that Luke will be able to sit this one out.

[@lerneanlion]

Maybe this is an attempt to make Thrawn have flaws? I mean, nobody is flawless, right?

[@Klijpo]

He's rusty. He's been kicking his heels on peat-bog-planet for 10 years. He's had no one to test his tactical nouse against save some bandits, and he's had a bunch of witches whispering in his ears and feeding him pies for all those years. It's actually surprising that those TIE pilots could even fly their fighters as effectively as they did, given their implied lack of flight hours. Yet even Thrawn gone to seed could still be formidable.

[@petererrington5142]

When he asked for the great mother's help, he said "again" so he's probably used it before, so maybe the magic is messing with his mind. Mixed with being the focus of cult-like worship has probably dulled his sharp wit.

[@mobgabriel1767]

"shit i'm supposed to let them win" -thrawn in the ahsoka finalle

[@dawall3732]

Like I said. Not Thrawn.

[@travis-yk9ml]

I thought he would have set a trap at the entry doors with mines. Since that was the only way in.

[@loganthekrogan2182]

Next season really needs a new military assistant writer. Thrawn and season two needs it.

[@billyholland5156]

most of the issues here are...unfortunate. the point of the lack of Ties could be explained by their fuel reserves being almost completely depleted after a decade (ISDs can refuel and rearm ties, but they cannot manufacture them without an external refinery)...though if that was the case it should have at least been mentioned in passing.

[@pantherec77]

If you're going to utilize a character who is supposed to be one if the best tacticisns in the galaxy, Dave Filoni needs to recognize that he needs an actual military tactician in the writing room as a paid advisor. His writing for Thrawn was laughably stupid because he doesnt know any better.

[@caseyjp1]

Thrawn's mishandling in '8' would be like Magnus Carlson (World chess champion) losing to some noob in a final to the 'scholar's mate'. Episode 8 was Famuyiwa's. He needs to go to the R.Rodriguez bench and stay there. Also Filoni's obsession with short episodes and mystery boxes is getting quite annoying.

[@neutralbychoice3584]

Great generals have a tendency to get worse at strategy with age. I mean, Rommel was one of the reasons that France fell in, i believe six weeks, then beat the British again and again in Africa until he was beat in El Alamein and later the Atlantic Wall, which he had a big part in failed. Napoleon won again and again up until Russia. Then he lost at the Battle of the nations and at last he was defeated at Waterloo. Even someone like Caesar or Alexander the Great seemed to become more crude with time. What my point is that Thrawn is is older than he was before so it stands to reason that he would not be at strategically inventive as in his younger days.

[@shanenolan5625]

That's not fair the Atlantic will was full of holes his resources promised were sent to the Eastern front. He didn't have command. Or the freedom to use assets. , nobody could move armour with hitlers say so . His plans were not followed. And he was shot and in hospital when it started and he was trying to remove Hitler from power . And he never commented the German forces in the battle And the chief military strategy experts the guy who won Poland snd France was fired, brought back and ignored as well. And Rodmell had cancer.

[@chadbrad8100]

not always true

[@neutralbychoice3584]

@@chadbrad8100 That is why i said they have a tendency…

[@LordXerus]

I said so e of the same things when I watched. Why didn’t they just leave rather than wasting more personnel? They could have ended that scene sooner and spent more time figuring out what Baylan was up to. But I suppose they wanted Ezra in that ship.

[@robertbemis9800]

Thrawn might only two pilots left to spare

[@pcjenkin]

Frankly, I was disappointed at how both Baylan Skoll and Shin Hatti just faded into the sunset. All the buildup, and then Baylan becomes a wandering hermit and Shin tries to join a band of raiders.

[@CEOsario]

The star destroyer was not able to break orbit...the ring had to come down...

[@DavidBernad-e3m]

Perhaps what Filoni lacked was a military expert and a devil's advocate.

[@pOOL-pANTS]

surrounded by yes-men.

[@joeeaster1528]

My hot take... Morgan Elspeth will be back as a full Nightmother...

[@nickgennady]

Thrawn was right that it does not matter if they get stranded. Yet he did not play into that. I would have sent all ties with goal to only destroy the Jedi ship and have ties retreat immediately. They don’t need to be dead but stuck. Than so as you said multiple times. Move the star destroyer to not let anyone board. Losing Morgan was unexplainable.

[@teamdoghouse7920]

After reading all the newer Thrawn books, I can conclude that much of his success was owed to his many helpful subordinates like Eli Vanto and Admiral Ar'Alani, as well as so many others throughout his adventures. He doesn't seem to have a good crew and it shows. Enoch is cool, but he's not Eli.

[@jedirayden]

I was never a Thrawn fan until I read the two canon trilogies about him and really LOVED that version of Thrawn. I haven't read the Heir To The Empire trilogy in about 25 years, but I remember enjoying the books and respecting Thrawn's tactical abilities but not particularly caring much about the character one way or another. Perhaps I should revisit those books and see if I have a different opinion now that I'm in my 40s. With that said, I definitely dislike the "I'm an Imperial, I'm a bad guy" villain Thrawn we have from Filoni. It's just boring. Or rather, it makes the character boring. Hopefully, as time goes on we'll get to see a more layered and nuanced character emerge... But I'm not holding my breath.

[@louiswinterhoff334]

One thing I might add as a sort of side is that I thought Baylan and Shin would sort of take on the same role that Joruus C'baoth had in the original Heir book trilogy. They are not quite sith, but definitely are not Jedi either just like C'baoth. Of course that dream was ruined when Baylan revealed that he was going to find some other power, then ruined again when we find out that Shin did not actually return to Thrawn with the remaining Night troopers on the gunships. I also did not like that Thrawn was so willing to leave them behind when he mentioned in either episode 6 or 7 that he did not care if Baylan and Shin were left behind. At that point for all I knew they were still working for him and Morgan so I thought he was just wasting assets if he was to leave them stranded.

[@GeneralBlackNorway]

He did not trust these dark jedi, and rightfully so!

[@louiswinterhoff334]

@@GeneralBlackNorway I realize that, but he never trusted C’baoth either. When Thrawn sent the two of them out to follow Sabine, he did not know that they would ditch him completely, and we didn’t know that for sure either, until of course it happened.

[@GeneralBlackNorway]

@@louiswinterhoff334 He clearly saw them as a great danger, just like any other jedi, so it makes sense for him to get ridd of them as soon as possible, at least keep them far away from him while testing their resolve and loyalty.

[@wild_lee_coyote]

I always wonder why Thrawn didn’t have the rest of his troops just stand guard at the hanger edge to make sure no one gets on. It’s not like they had much else to do at the time.

[@One-Eyed-Biker]

I’m convinced Thrawn was either killed or severely injured by a blaster bolt (or something similar)to his chest. If you look closely, it appears his uniform has been repaired at the chest on his right side. This has led me to believe the Great Mother’s have resurrected/healed him in such a manner that Thrawn has been corrupted by their dark majik. I’m not sure that it isn’t they who are actually calling the shots. It was convenient the Great Mothers decided to bestow this new “honor” onto Morgan & then a scene later Thrawn basically orders her to sacrifice herself to assure his getaway. The Great Mothers did not seem to upset about it as they walked past her. Almost as if they wanted to make sure she never became a threat to their power. Idk, just a theory I can’t get out from under.

[@Flopdoodle]

Whatever role Timothy Zahn had in this (I suspect none) it didn't stop Filoni from completely butchering Thrawns character(and this entire show tbh). Hey Disney! Make room beside Han, Luke and Leia's heads! We got another boy for the chopping block! Ughhh.

[@shanz7758]

What is even more stupid, is that in the end, the "good guys" have basically lost, so you couldn't even argue that story wise, Thrawn had to make mistakes in order for the good guys to win, because they didn't. Honestly, they should have barely survived thrawn when it looks like they were taking a bath by the lake the whole time....

[@jyotiradityarana1725]

I didn’t just understand that why did he left Ezra alive ,,, this act of Thrawn can cost him a defeat 🗿

[@Philomatt13]

I also was disappointed by Thrawns portrayal in Ashoka, something felt lacking most of the time. He didnt feel brilliant, he felt... like he was reading the script? I'm glad I'm not the only one who had issues with it.

[@davetheguy1360]

i kinda think that we are all expecting the Thrawn we saw in rebels. but this guy has been out of work for over 10 years. he even got fat. so it makes sense to assume that he is rusty trying to relive his glory years. we know he will end up losing entirely since he isnt present in the first order. just a thought. Thrawns exile made him a hasbeen. works as a character honestly. love the show.

[@sauron6064]

Thrawn will likely get everything back into shape shortly after he returned.

[@davetheguy1360]

@@sauron6064 exactly hes just gotta break off the rust.

[@DK-gy7ll]

It's called plot armor. No matter how many stormtroopers and TIE Fighters you throw at the heroes you know they're going to survive.

[@honestlordcommissarbrighte7921]

Ahsoka as a whole was no Filoni's or the new canon's finest hope as expected either. A whole nothing burger.

[@TheMitchyb61]

Plot armor…there’s no way for it to work otherwise. How do 3 Jedi not start slicing those zombies to pieces?

[@juggymcjugjug6664]

I don't see why the ring wasn't attached during loading. Then they could have just left an hour earlier.

[@joshtaylor9626]

I think if ketheen kennedy gets removed from star wars Dave and Favreau will make the sequals not exist and make thrawn get his own thrilogy

[@oldcur]

I think Thrawn had a good reason for staying docked to the Zeffo tower. Maybe he needed to get all the marbles on their stands.

[@dxjjw]

I hope Timothy Zahn is promoted even higher up for writing on the next series/movie. I know he gave Filoni his blessing for the Ahsoka series but we need him to be more hands on for a true accurate portrayal of Thrawn.

[@shanenolan5625]

Zhan will approve of anything for the paycheck. He will approve as they charge his work and ruin his characters Or charge his characters backstory . As he has before because they pay him and gave him more books to write. Sadly. To alter his better story to fit Disney Canon. Or let dave take a thrawn book tactic and give it to ashkoa in clone wars season one.

[@ericp1139]

Thrawn is only as smart as the writer, so they definitely need to bring on board some tactical consultants. Cuz this ain’t it.

[@dereksherwood3794]

Why would he get more hands on? He's already got his money. cha-chaaaaaang!$$$ I'd love to see some of his original stuff made into series more than try to salvage this dumpster fire of a franchise.

[@shanenolan5625]

@@ericp1139 yes they could use sone military consultants just for the hearing scenes or reporting to the government. Ever see a general talk like that to a senator ? Or anyone in active military not speaking respectfully on duty ? Or political consultant. ( or just some simple research. Mon mothma outrank leia. And akbar shul be in charge of hera . . Not to mention corruption and perjury.

[@mrs.manrique7411]

He said he wants to write all the in between moments we didn’t get to see in the Ahsoka show. I’d buy that.

[@fightingdreamer123]

Also to note how his TIE fighters were useless in the fight against the jedi starship...which was standing still

[@stcredzero]

This is the problem with fighting people who can see into the future.

[@KikBlava]

No TIE Defenders in sight. Granted he didn't have the resources, but didn't he? Could have easily repurposed a few regular TIEs.

[@dancingvalkyrie]

Classic Filoni writing

[@sinisterisrandom8537]

​@@KikBlavamajority of the fleet was used to keep the Chimera in some pseudo intact state.

[@dxjjw]

Now compare it to the how the TIE’s were portrayed when they scrambled in Andor Eye of Aldhani episode. There was so much suspense and they actually felt threatening.

[@dancingvalkyrie]

"A villain is only as smart as the writer" Truth is Filoni was always struggling to write this character

[@ohkaygoplay]

Writers all have their weak points. Some write badass villains but bungle their way through writing heroes, and some write amazing heroes, but can't write a compelling villain to save their life. Filoni has his strengths. With Thrawn, I really do think he needs to consult Timothy Zahn in order to shore up his weak points. There's nothing bad about asking help from someone who knows how to create specific character types that a writer has trouble with. Me, here, I suck at writing villains, so I've been consulting with a friend who's an insane villain creator.

[@hellfish2309]

Star Wars doesn’t need Filoni to flex his strengths as much as it needs him to hire help to cover his weaknesses, which Dave and Jon simply don’t do enough of:

[@scrimshaw7470]

​@@hellfish2309this has been my main complaint. The few creative minds they have are stretched too thin and it's getting more and more obvious.

[@hellfish2309]

@@scrimshaw7470 since its behind closed doors for all we know, Iger, Chapak, and their minions might be denying them writers, but given the budgets they greenlight it literally wouldn’t add up 🤷‍♂️ My most generous assessment is that Kathleen and her assistants were dismayed at the ‘written by committee’ conclusion by which audiences disapproved of the sequels whether true or not; this and the impression Favreau made with Mando s1 informs a position of letting her star warriors run their fiefdoms as they choose so long product shows up and gets clicks Also, a more laid back Thrawn has Dave giving Jon a lower grading curve by which to write Moff Gideon and vice-versa: Jon [stunt]casts Giancarlo to preen and impose, but can’t really overclock and raise the bar by which the audience will be intimidated by Thrawn… I enjoy Favreau, but it’s amazing how they figured out how to both circlejerk and reversedraft 🏎️ for one another

[@Flopdoodle]

@@ohkaygoplay Judging this show, Filoni has few if any strengths.

[@SeeAndDreamify]

I feel like Thrawns decisions were based on movie logic, I don't like it, but that is the way they make sense. He knows somehow that the universe will try very hard to make him loose, so he chooses to loose in a way where he actually wins, limiting the amount of things he sacrifices every step of the way. If he had sent a whole squadron of tie fighters then by movie logic they would have somehow failed anyway, and that would be worse for him :P.

[@icaruscarinae]

I agree strongly...which in turn means my nitpick is aimed at Thrawns exposition which should have hinted more strongly at this.

[@Commanderziff]

That would be a curious thing, a character who realizes that they are a villain in a movie, and therefore actual victory is impossible, so they aim for an eternal stalemate.

[@VietBotPDX]

tie fighters could have just hovered and fired away. And yes, thrawn could have left within the first 5 minutes of the episode. So the other 35 minutes of losing troopers and etc. etc was completely unnecessary

[@CCFONESOL]

His ship couldn't even leave atmo. He needed the ring to come down and hook up. That didn't happen until later after loading. Thrawn should've had the ring hook up once Ahsoka was on the planet as there would be no reason for it to stay in orbit, unless it was clearing mines for when they left. Which we saw no mines when they left.

[@uhagi6720]

I find is absolutely dumb that thrawn didn't already have the cargo loaded onto his Star Destroyer before Morgan arrived. There's literally no reason for this and its not explained why it wasn't done in the show.

[@BingLing-vz3og]

@@uhagi6720 the cargo part was one of the few spots I had no trouble with, maybe the cargo couldn't be loaded onto the ship until the Eye arrived due to 'shelf life' issues, or maybe the Great Mothers would only allow them to be loaded when Morgan arrived and return was assured. not too much of a stretch and didn't seem like something that needed explaining. The other errors people have been pointing out are far more of an issue than this.

[@titan8995]

@@uhagi6720 why would the great mothers agree to have their undead nightbrothers or whatever loaded on Thrawn's ship if they didn't know if Morgan would actually come to get them or not?

[@thalmoragent9344]

Overall, I hope Filoni gives Thrawn a decent ending, and Thrawn isn't nerfed anymore due to Plot Armor. Cause he's already been undermined by THE weakest ISD Bombardment ever. Granted, Rebels did this too. Base Delta Zero can't be a thing in Disney Star Wars cause it would take forever to pull it off for these ISD 1's and 2's

[@shawn092182]

I hope Filoni is able to give Ahsoka any kind of ending. But that's just wishful thinking since Filoni is obsessed with keeping his Mary Sue character alive.

[@boshwa20]

​@@shawn092182Say you never watched Clone Wars without saying you never watched Clone Wars

[@shawn092182]

@@boshwa20 Say you have no rebuttal without saying that you have no rebuttal.

[@grimdolo918]

Thrawn's strategy... Every time you get defeated you just look smug and say you won any way.

[@barrywhite3216]

He's Filonis Inspector Clouseau

[@Flopdoodle]

A dumb persons portrayal of a smart person is all Thrawn is in this show.

[@talonmassakir9000]

But he wasn't defeated. His ENTIRE goal was to leave the planet and get back to their own galaxy. Which he succeeded in doing.

[@grimdolo918]

@@talonmassakir9000 Actually that's only part of his goal.

[@deathsinger1192]

@@grimdolo918 no

[@bojik2616]

Biggest blunder he did was to not move the ship away from the tower once loading was complete to prevent anyone boarding. THEN start link up of the giant hyperspace ring.

[@TerminallyChill85]

You could even complete the transfer with shuttles

[@hordakprime6172]

Exactly

[@PostprandialTorpor]

Agreed it made absolutely no sense. Asshat tactics

[@bojik2616]

@@TerminallyChill85 yup but then they might comandeer a shuttle faster load way they did but lift off the tower the second the last pod hit deck plating

[@TerminallyChill85]

@@bojik2616 based on the timeline they would have been finished long before Ahsoka arrived. Ahsoka was just slowly following the crabs and in no hurry

[@Biotech789]

Ahsoka and Ezra surviving a canon barage from ISD is the most Plot armor thing i ever seen.....

[@jhernandez3679]

I was honestly hoping that with all that time stranded that Thrawns stormtroopers would've been badass soldiers. Not just being canon fodder

[@alexshinra6722]

Agreed I was let down that his stormtroopers did nothing that you would see any other trooper do. Which is miss every lethal shot and get cut down mid melee.

[@klutzspecter3470]

Either the force is actively thwarting Thrawn or Ahsoka and crew has some major plot armor. They literally survived a barrage from a Star Destroyer and Thrawn’s security detail has been very Complicate with a Jedi managing to sneak onboard despite having this very issue onboard with the very same jedi KNOWN to disguise themselves as a Trooper, that trooper then somehow manages to avoid detection and steal a republic era ship and fly out of Dathomir, without being detected. Thrawn is destined to lose and it shows considering on his security detail alone.

[@ohkaygoplay]

I did appreciate that they kept with Ezra's reaction to respond with an affirmative into the trooper's com regarding reinforcements being sent instead of going full Han Solo with "negative, negative, we have a reactor leak here. Very large. Very dangerous." That response will let him hide more efficiently as long as he stays in that armor. There are no other Force sensitives on board that can sense him and be all like, "Wait a minute..."

[@Rage_Templar]

Especially if he's pretending to be a undead trooper. I *DOUBT* they do check ups on them.

[@davidstrange2482]

One thing Was On their Side. Those Huge Laser/Batteries are made to Fire on another Ship Closer To To the Size of a Space Frigate. Ie a Much much Smaller Target is going to be harder to hit. and those Wolf/Rat things Are like a Horse. Probably going 40 Ish MPH. But still Its More likely the Blast of Debris (Any rocks exploding etc. would have hit them) But yea the chances to get across without getting a Boulder upside the head was Not in their favor. (The force Plot Armor Works in Mysterious ways lmao)

[@OllamhDrab]

Well, the bigger the naval guns, the longer it takes em to traverse and adjust, so you use smaller guns, and then, oh, right, everyone's Force sensitive if not armored, too. (And besides, Ezra's not only good at stealing Stormtrooper armor, he's practiced doing mind-tricks in em and that's a huge, vastly-understaffed ISD. Pretty likely he'd boosted Skoll's old shuttle, (or duped someone into dumping it in space with him aboard ) before they even got near Dathomir.

[@larsespeland6068]

Yeah, him getting away was not a tough sell, he has skills and has done it before. I'd think Thrawn should have been looking for it, but the show must go on, so it's not a stretch that hurts to make.@@OllamhDrab

[@stickbugman]

I feel like this is one of the major problems with Thrawn. Like if Thrawn was actually Thrawn he would be too overpowered so in order to actually have the good guys win the story writers have to either make him a normal imperial officer, something he is way to good for, or make the good guys come up with some McGuffin to beat him. Or a little of both.

[@spencerfelt2093]

Truth

[@apok1980]

Thanks for saying it, I was subconsciously thinking that without even realizing it. It’s hard to do live action adaptations. That’s the only reason why I’m forgiving to some but not all of the latest Star Wars properties.

[@TeenageMutantZuckerTurtle]

Very true, this goes back all the way to Rebels with how they beat him then. The problem with writing genius villains (in any media) is that they’re far easier to build up as a threat than they are to bring down when it comes time. In Rebels when the writers needed Thrawn to lose they took the route of making him near-perfect but constantly undermined by his idiot subordinates just to keep it a scenario where the good guys COULD logically win. Filoni could have done this again and had some surviving officers with him serve as Thrawn’s handicap, but after 10 years there’s no way he would have kept them around. Morgan Elsbeth could have been the fool, but then that would have made HER character worse after being so competent earlier in the season. The problem is that they wrote themselves into a bad corner where they couldn’t think of a logical weakness for Thrawn in the scenario they put him in. Tbh the only change I can think of that might have worked without messing something else up would be if a portion of the New Republic fleet somehow hitched a ride with the Eye of Scion, making Thrawn the underdog in this scenario instead of the one with the upper hand, then he outsmarts them and leaves them stranded. Which would have changed the whole plot on Peridia and required a lot of changes in the first half of the season to properly set up. All in all, a hypothetical plot that would have been difficult to execute properly in such a short season.

[@apok1980]

@@TeenageMutantZuckerTurtle I personally think if you can write a bad ass over powered villain, then it’s time to step up your other characters. They could have pumped up Ezra more. He could have spent the last 10 years communing in the force with guidance by ghost Jedi. Then when Sabine and Ahsoka shows up, he’s quirky from being by himself for 10 years but ridiculously wiser. He’s so much better, that he sensed the future and begins to execute his plan to hurt Thrawn and isn’t surprised to see Ahsoka and Sabine. I would go as far to say that he’s so good, that he does some big sacrifice that kills him.

[@jasonlaw1079]

It's hard to write Thrawn as being a tactical genius when the protagonists are supposed to be fighting against overwhelming odds. There will always be plot holes and tactical missteps because otherwise the rebels will lose every single time if the antagonist behaved logically.

[@TommySkywalker11]

They could pretty easily get around that by doing what Rogue One did and make a point of the force guiding them, instead of just making it assumed as part of the setting

[@Uncle_Fred]

@@TommySkywalker11 Or better yet, give Thrawn a series of obstacles to overcome from a position of great weakness. This would have been a great opportunity to really focus a plotline on Thrawn and give the audience something diffrent. We've seen dozens of bumbling mustache twirling Imperial officers. We've seen the plotline of these officers given vast resources only to loose everything. This is boring writing in Star Wars at this point.

[@TheBigExclusive]

These aren't nitpicks. These are actual major story problems that many viewers noticed.

[@kotor610]

Thrawn knew that the season was about to end and sent wave after wave of minions to run down the clock until the credits rolled.

[@hazb8026]

It was infuriatingly bad writing. Earlier in the season we watch 6 fighters shoot pointlessly at the jedi ship for 5 mins to no effect. The one run of tie fighters disables it. There is no internal consistency...things change to just serve the plot And telling witch lady to go slow them down and she lets Ezra and Sabine pass to just fight Ashoka.....just so stupid

[@throwfascistsintopits3062]

Guess i am not included in the "many viewers". 🤷‍♂️

[@mariusjoachims6866]

@@kotor610Plus, the great mothers needed to do something cooler than playing with their red triangles 🔺

[@musa7606]

The real Thrawn would have built up a new Empire and new army ready to invade, not just sat around hoping someone found him.

[@gabrielrangel956]

The problem with the night trooper scene is that it was made in the volume, they all basically either stand still or go around in a circle, it gets a lot better when they go up the stairs

[@viperson9818]

Then they lose that zombie movement and decide to move like a normal stormtrooper.

[@alexshinra6722]

Yeah did you see that there all slow and Brutish movements then suddenly there moveing normally firing there guns at random things normally and running and using explosives to get by sealed doors. Totally normal undead troopers.

[@ForestRaptor]

I think the first couple of moments of being brought back is kinda waking up from one of those "3 year" naps .... but once they get the connections setup they start moving like their old selves.@@alexshinra6722

[@TheBigExclusive]

If Thrawn and the Witches knew they were getting rescued, why didn't they load the cargo ahead of time?

[@NewSquallor]

Bad writing can't make smart characters smart.

[@orion5258]

I think it’s because they didn’t know exactly when, all they knew was they would be saved

[@MrGBH]

Maybe they had to prepare the cargo? Maybe they did began the process the moment they reached out to Morgan?

[@goldfishprime]

Not just that, but they could have been loading the cargo and attaching the Jump ring at the same time. That way they would have left well before Ahsoka would be able to reach the Night Sister tower.

[@viperson9818]

They’re so use to making the antagonist do dumb things they forgot Thrawn is a insane tactician.

[@ravanpee1325]

Plot armour sucks when the antoganist looks like a complete fool

[@BingLing-vz3og]

a minor defence of Thrawn is that he did wait until it was confirmed that Morgan had died before firing on the tower. but agree with most of the other points, plus Thrawn could've called the Eye of Scion down before all the cargo was loaded so that his ship could connect to the ring right away. that ending really messed up my enjoyment of an otherwise entertaining show.

[@thechunkmaster8794]

You could argue that bringing the Eye of Sion down too early would've made it vulnerable to an assault from Ashoka's ship, and if the Eye were damaged during such an assault, they would've been delayed even more. It's really important to keep your only means of escaping a galaxy safe.

[@donaldsmith8648]

They kept telling me how much he was a mastermind I didn't see that at all

[@hitmixhyepock9405]

To dummies smart people seem like fools.

[@Lumantrix]

Well in the original book trilogy he beat the whole NR with only 50 star destroyers and a bunch of other made in china ships

[@adamwolf9419]

There is an unfortunate truth about the Mandoverse and most other Disney live action shows: they have to be “dumbed down” to fit their larger audience. The shows are written so than the average viewer uneducated in the lore can sit down and enjoy the show. Because of that, complex and nuanced characters like Thrawn often have to be simplified to better fit a recognizable archetype, in Thrawn’s case that being the villain. The average viewer probably doesn’t necessarily want to have to constantly think too hard about who is the hero or the villain, why the villain is doing what they are doing, or if the villain is truly evil. Sometimes for the viewer’s sake, it is easier to just make those things obvious and make the villain more clearly evil and flawed. It also in Thrawn’s case makes the plot armor for the heroes seem a little less jarring. It’s only in less mainstream shows like Andor or the animated shows that more complex characters like Thrawn, Luthen Rael, and Maul can really shine. The mainstream shows have squeezed in more complex characters like Baylan Skoll, but he is unfortunately more of the exception rather than the rule. Generally, the characters in the mainstream shows are going to be simpler than those in other Star Wars media.

[@TheRumblewagon]

5:55 Thrawn did not throw Shin away. She ran away. It's not a nitpick if you invent it.

[@marcelgrabowski5939]

Perhaps repulsor lifts of Chimaera are only partially operational, and incapable to lift it any higher without help of Eye of Scion, but then they can just move it away from this pillar... Edit: Many had tried to reach other galaxies, but alway failed. Morgan is indeed formidable character, hybrid of witch, warrior, logistics officer and industrial Tycoon? Her lose here is really bad, and frankly, loosing few TIE fighters or few dozens stormtroopers instead would be better choice. Edit2: It is hard to write very intelligent characters, because you need to think like them, you need long time to think through decision wich this character will take in few seconds and all of its repercussions, there is a reason only Timothy Zahn can portray Thrawn acurately.

[@QuintusAntonious]

My thought was that the ships crew was severely diminished and they simply didn't have the operational capability to do too many things at once leaving obvious dumb openings like needing to sit still too long or leaving hangar doors open. These ships require massive crews. Thrawn is a wounded animal projecting strength so that the real predators on the planet don't attack. Of course, that's just apologetics for what is probably poor writing, but still..

[@richardhittmann12]

If that was the case with damaged repulsors then filoni SHOULD HAVE STATED THAT in dialogue in the episode

[@marcelgrabowski5939]

@@richardhittmann12Yes! Forcing funs to make headcanons and then release some patch in form of comic or book few years later isn't really a sign of good storytelling. Edit: as much as I like theorizing, it shouldn't be required from reader side.

[@rezaganjizadeh4263]

Thrawn: *returns* People who red the trilogy: The empire's heir has returned!

[@isaackim7675]

It’s better than somehow Emperor Palpatine has returned

[@oliverhendrix8176]

@@isaackim7675 I mean yeah, the writers actually thought about how Thrawn returned, instead of “space magic” bs go.