George R.R. Martin vs House of the Dragon

[@fagittarius555]

If you read the blog post and came away thinking “George is most upset about Maelor” (which I am seeing a lot of on social media) then you missed the whole “butterfly” point. George is clearly very concerned with the next two seasons of HotD and it’s not just because of Maelor yall.

[@The17thStranger]

He uses Maelor as an example of a wider problem. The show is removing dominoes that seem irrelevant but go on to have a massive impact. After seeing what happened to game of thrones I can’t say I blame him for getting nervous about HBO removing pieces from the chessboard in order to tell their own version of the story.

[@fagittarius555]

@@The17thStranger Exactly. But people who support the show changes are joking on fans who support George saying things like “the toxic fans were waiting for George to complain about Rhaenicent but all he cares about is where tf Maelor is”. They completely disregard what he’s actually saying, cherry picking tag lines to propagate their narrative that George is okay with the show- when he clearly is really unhappy with it and has gone to the lengths of making himself look “petty” to prove his point.

[@fagittarius555]

@@The17thStrangerOr even worse people are saying George is upset that Blood and Cheese was not “disturbing” or “gory” enough as compared to his writing. I think that’s also missing the point of what he’s saying on purpose.

[@originalsainthood]

Sara Hess is the culprit

[@BrandonNinja]

What's "unprofessional" is bad writing. Season 2 is filled with bad writing and missed opportunities.

[@originalsainthood]

All these people saying, "it was unprofessional" and "it was petty and spiteful to post that"-let's not forget how poorly D&D handled George's material in the end. Back then, everyone was saying George should have spoken up and said something. Now, here we are with George finally stepping up and speaking out, and suddenly everyone’s acting like an offended snowflake. Make it make sense.

[@assassinscreedforlife9413]

I have seen such posts to all over the Internet. Those guys are just brain-dead complaining about a man defending the legacy on the work of his life being trashed right at the front of his eyes and the guys who are doing it lying to his face

[@diannebdee]

@@assassinscreedforlife9413 My feeling is this: George RR Martin is not unknowing of the practices of adaptations of works of fiction. He wrote for television throughout the seventies, eighties, and the nineties before he set to writing ASOIAF. He knows the deal. He adapted Gabrielle-Suzanne de Villeneuve's original book of "Beauty and the Beast" for CBS starring Ron Perlman and Linda Hamilton. The piece was set in modern day (at least at that time) New York, and his Vincent lived in the tunnels under the city with a bunch of people who left the topside. If Villenuve was still alive, how do you think she would have felt knowing that GRRM changed her story to suit the aims of the television show? Also, GRRM signed his rights away. He was no strong armed. This is all hubris and entitlement on his behalf. As a writer myself, I will never ever sell the rights. Why? I don't want anyone else mucking with my characters and or story. If he didn't want it, then he should never have sold the rights. Full stop.

[@pglanville]

D&D did the best they could. George didn't finish the story. I don't know how you blame them.

[@assassinscreedforlife9413]

@@pglanville do you call that Their best? If so, they are extremely terrible. And if not, they just wanted to finish it so they could grab more fame and more money via Star Wars. stop playing pointless both sides

[@Male_Ficent]

​@@pglanville their best is to make Arya kill the Nightking ignoring years of show Jon's plot for apparently no reason than just 'subverting expectations'.

[@dragonsandpeasants4011]

I don't think readers can be expected to completely divorce the show from the books. It seems a significant part of the reason the show was made was because it had a built in fan following from the books, fans who had elements of the books that they definitely wanted to see on screen. Just as show writers can't be expected to adapt every single element from the books, fans can't be expected to just "turn off" their (often strong) connections to book plot points/characters. I do think it's more helpful when fans/show writers express their views in a civil manner.

[@helgestrm9670]

First time listening, just wanted to say that you guys have great chemistry and its admirable how naturally you allow the other person to take space in the conversation back and forth without interruptions. Very good flow between you two. Enjoyed your thoughts :) #JusticeForMaelor

[@WiCnet]

Thanks so much! I think we got better at that over time. There was definitely a point where we talked over each other a lot.

[@brianj436]

The king can do as he likes.

[@titomedexd7361]

Perhaps George is slowly entering on that age in which, very respectfully, not everything he says must be heard if you catch my meaning

[@christophermoore2398]

The entirety of Fire & Blood is a rambling storyline told from multiple points of view and by the recollection of different “authors.” GRRM’s narrative style in this book gave the impression that many plot points, even some of the most important, were open to interpretation. Add to that that the on-screen presentation must always be stripped down a bit anyway, and I think the hyperfocus on Maelor’s non-existence and Helaena’s suicide may be a bit much. The woman already had plenty of reasons to kill herself….

[@manny3928]

I didnt read the books. But say what you want! S2 of HOTD was the best season of a tv series I have watched in a good long while. Exceptionally well written and acted

[@WiCnet]

Glad you loved it!

[@jmiths]

I feel George regrets selling the rights... He wanted fame in life, and now he's regreting that his legacy is becoming the HBO version of his work and not his uncompromised vision

[@eprohoda]

good night . stunning video-work!peace out! Winter~

[@diannebdee]

I have insight into the reason why Helaena reacted as she did when Blood & Cheese entered. I am a rape survivor. When it happened, I froze up because it was impossible to believe this was happening. Her "special abilities" also have to be taken into consideration. She stated earlier in the episode about the rats. Aegon chided her on it not knowing what she meant. Given what I said about my assault and her special abilities, she'd already seen the event so she was frozen in place. Believe me when it's happening depending on your mindset, you do not react melodramatically. It's sometimes a voiceless response as she did when she picked up Jaehaera and left, that is the voiceless response. Her brain was still playing catch up.

[@jaimebergner]

GRRM having problems with certain aspects of season 2 is interesting to me but that baby has fallen into the bath water, so oh well....GRRM having problems with the season 3 outline worries me because to me some of the show runner writing instincts are dubious and I don't want the show to jump the dragon, pardon me for getting cute.

[@Coycoy]

Reading between the lines of the blog post, it seems that the changes were for logistical reasons and not because the showrunner wanted to "make it his own". That blog post is more malicious than the intent of the changes made for the show.

[@THOU713]

Aemon trying to kill his brother goes against his character

[@pglanville]

George didn't finish the GOT story. I don't know why people were upset at Benioff and Weiss. They are not Martin and just finished the story.

[@JayR-lu1gp]

The story was finished they just didnt adapt it and stop telling george whats going on with the work, same as hbo, drifting far from the story..

[@pglanville]

@@JayR-lu1gp Winds of Winter is not fimished.

[@mum-your]

@@pglanville so what if Winds of Winter is not finished? its not like Benioff and Weiss could have adapted it. do you even know how much they cut from the books? they cut jeyne poole in season 1 which destryoed sansa's plot in season 5, they cut lady stone heart, they removed the northern plot, they removed loras invading dragonstone, they destroyed dany's visions in house of the undying, they removed dany's dragon dreams, they removed dany's marraige, they removed jon snow and arya stark warging, they removed euron geryjoy oldtown plot, they removed victarion greyjoy, they removed all of dorne plot, they removed wyman maderley plot, they removed davos going to skagos for rickon stark, they removed varys killing kevan lannister, they removed gerold dayne plotline and also THEY REMOVED YOUNG GRIFF and jon connington. these are from the top of my head. if you think after removing all of these plots, they could have adapted winds of winter even if grrm had released it yet, then get help

[@pglanville]

@@mum-your those guys created one of the best shows ever.

[@jeffbachman2949]

​@@mum-yourall of those are half finished storylines that over a decade later the author himself can't finish

[@heiligebimbam3073]

Why is Roman not getting a word in edgewise? Selcke can’t stop hogging the whole conversation.

[@kennyknight07]

I think G.Martin should just focus on his unfinished work on his hands. That's my concise conclusion as if it will be too boring and long in full. Also, I see things from both sides. If he wants to get involved fully, he's gotta be involved in every single step so he can be satisfied, but obviously, he can't and didn't. My background is in TV/Production / Corporate sides of things, so I sympathize with the team of creators of HBO too. They've got strict timelines to meet. which involve many actors /stars/lines of production etc. He did not get involved at the right timing where he could made correct input and thus changes to his liking, are not the production side's fault. He's talking about the butterfly effect, but think about the implication of "Having Malor" there, what would have affected the storylines of 8 episodes seasons out of 4 seasons limitation they have? If every single detail in G.Martin's book should have been picked up without failing, imagine how many seasons and episodes the production side has got to run? Ryan Condol said " 25 seasons and Bankrupting everyone" in the Podcast but I sympathize with that view. HBO is a huge business entity. and G.Marin is an "Artist".

[@melissagreye8445]

People have said Helena is on the autism spectrum. She separates herself from trauma.

[@themisheika]

Then Condal just removed the logic and the dominoes that eventually fall to causing Rhaenyra's downfall and ejection from KL. You can't claim Helaena "separates herself from the trauma" when it's convenient for you, only to shift goalposts to "she killed herself because anyone would be traumatized over the murder of her child" after nearly a whole season of her showing herself desensitized towards the murder of Jaehaerys. Trying to brute force her book ending after making such sweeping changes in show canon will only result in s8 danerys levels of tonal whiplash.

[@trashkills2802]

And here i was thinking she was a dreamer, instead she autistic.

[@melissagreye8445]

@@themisheika I never said Ryan said it, I said Fans online ( fan theory). Plus someone who separates themselves from trauma does mean they never deal with it or it doesn't catch up with them.

[@samf.s.7731]

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[@themisheika]

@@melissagreye8445 at what point is trauma supposed to catch up with show Helaena the three-eyed raven, who spent most of s2 showing herself more and more apathetic towards her son's death, to the point of astral projecting and telling her son's murderer to murder her brother?

[@nikitasingh0412]

Condal is ruining the show

[@FandomEmpire]

He did it in a respectful way?? He literally revealed details from Condal’s season 3 outline… that’s about as low as it gets

[@originalsainthood]

no. it's his story. if you wrote something and I mishandled it - you'd say something. good for him.

[@Vinlander95]

the show is based on George's work, so if anyone is disrespectful its the showrunners for changing the authors beloved series so immensely that the author himself got to speak out about it. George doesn't have to be respectful at all in this situation if he doesn't want to be, but he was. And he only mentioned one spoiler from the season. Not like he spoiled every significant plot point.

[@trashkills2802]

You are an orange farmer. You make orange juice. I take your orange juice and in front of you I spit in it, and ask you to drink it. Suddenly, you are telling me I am fucking weird! I respond with: you are being very disrespectful to me right now.

[@Matthew-ko3wk]

if u wanna talk about disrespect lets talk about sara hess and ryan condal, the most disrespectful and delusional showrunners in the business today, i mean seriously how did these guys go from making shit daytime tv to doing a game of thrones prequel. they’ve used and tarnished fire and blood so that they can tell their own stupid woke stories that make zero sense to anyone

[@samf.s.7731]

He revealed plot points from his book,and one very obvious thing from Ryan's outline that we all knew is happening. It's like when Star Wars fans call the sequels woke completely ignoring Padme and her daughter, a dozen extended universe female characters, Ahsoka and every lady that was on The Clone Wars, etc. before Disney bought the rights. Sure Jan, I'm 13 and will believe everything you say because I don't know jack about the franchise... Wait, nope! No I'm not.