George Russell's Lydian Chromatic Concept Critical Review Part 10

[@johnjacquard863]

hi fine sir. :D thanks for sharing your ideas. I always enjoy your perspective on things because I too share a deep love for charlie parker like yourself .

[@unsatura]

gbdf over face is ok, according to the "berklee" method .... the idea of avoid notes are not to avoid any minor 2nd intervals, but to avoid intervals that obstruct hearing the guide tones ... so some minor 2nd are ok, also a note forming a tri tone with a guide tone might be an avoid note

[@andyshaw325]

You are stating that music is just a series of notes moving through time creating contrapuntal voicing with chord tones similar to Galper. Russell would argue that the scale and chord are one and the same and that so called guide tones should reflect the unity of the chord as well as its own melodic strength. I understand where you are coming from, but from your point of view it would be better to repeat Adam Neely's definition here and say that they (minor 9ths because that is what we are really talking about here) are Ok if they don't obscure the basic 'function' of the chord. Now we are talking about harmony.

[@johnjacquard863]

the main point of LLC is that you can recycle existing things you play to use in other contexts. ( super imposition) take a charlie parker lick in Bbmajor ( I VI7 ii V ) (while a Ebmajor bassline plays) Eblydian chromatic

[@sergej100qca4]

These videos are great! I would love to see reviews (or breakdowns) of Slonimsky's Thesaurus and Forward Motion. I also think your breakdowns of Dick Oatts solos can be interesting .

[@janiceyule2417]

It's about time you did a breakdown of Bucks Fizz's "Making your mind up".

[@blex9125]

Even the forsaken natural 11 on a dom7 chord can sound nice if you play it right. Make it sound like a sus chord or turn it into a pent scale: 1 3 4 5 b7 Hal Galper knows what’s good.

[@aflightofbumblebee749]

Hi again Andy,,i havent even gotten this far,its for tomorrow, but i was just wondering how the access to your premium content works,and as i,m a Jazz novice,what were those books i think i saw in some videos previously that broke the be bop down into a numbered & typical series of phrases?,,are they free pdfs ,,are they by you?,,?,,whatever the case,and if you have some kind of external site,then please let me know the links and any other essential links for books or whatever,because i am coming from a prog rock background in my playing practice,& study Classical music books for my ongoing theory studies,and so apart from playing some Belgian prog ,Jimi Hendrix & Mahavishnu ,or modal tunes like So What,i havent really learnt to play Jazz Standards or Be Bop,,,,,yet! ,,,,and i know i would be a way better musician if i go back to those forms and play some tunes instead of just soloing over progressions of weird arpeggiated chords,which is fun and all,but ,,,i need to get my Jazz basics sorted out!...Thanks!..

[@aflightofbumblebee749]

Hello. Again,I was mistaken when I asked for the links to your premium content,thats because before moving on to your talks on LCCTO I had watched another by Jazz guitar channel and he had premium content,and I got it mixed up.However,my other question has gone unanswered,and I’m wondering if I’m mistaken there too,but I am sure I watched a video or two of yours a couple of years back,and there was some reference to a guide to Be Bop,that had broken down most of the archetypical phrases into some kind of guide,,,and as I noticed there were some other videos of yours posted with 3 letters and a number I wondered if that was maybe somehow related,but if that is not you then please let me know,if it is you though or something you referred to in the past then,what was that book please?.,,i have a memory of some other books being mentioned,but this guide in particular has remained in my mind to check out. I think your video at the time was analysing upper extensions or maybe upper partials and how Charlie Parker used them to solo so melodically

[@ericcalonico5621]

Awesome!! Gal's book is amazing as well.

[@MaxIsBackInTown]

A Lydian dominant scale contains zero avoid notes.

[@johnjacquard863]

hi sir. there is a difference between having Ionian and aeolian as tonal center ( which contain avoid notes) and having lydian dorian as the axis of tonal center of gravity ( unity)no avoid notes. i def agree that chord scale theory is just a shortcut,\because all 12 notes work in any context ( we have to remember that relationship of string beats and weak beats) with our imagination we can kind of create anything we want, there are no "rules".

[@johnjacquard863]

if you take any jazz standard in the key of C major ( including non diatonic substitutions such as Fminor Bb7 subdominant and F#dim7, and dominant subs like altered scale and half whole diminished.) that entire jazz standard in the key of C major is all contained INSIDE the F major chord. ( you can create a repeating F major bassline for that jazz standard in the KEY of C major) the entire structure ADDS up to be F lydian . we have to remember that the theory represents what all instruments add up to be. if i play on piano C6/F#dim7/Dmin7/Bdim7/C6 over a bassline spelling F major ( we get F lydian chromatic) we can think another way also. piano plays ii V I in C major followed by ii V I Amajor overtop a Fmajor bassline adds up to be F lydian chromatic. ( there's actually tons of options here)

[@johnjacquard863]

i think i can communicate my point is quicker easier way in terms of how to play something based on the information component. take a charlie parker melody that he normally plays over a ii V I ( and normally the bass would be outlining that ii V i) however instead play that same melody over a bass outlining IVmaj7 ( information wise this looks like Dmin7/ G7/ C6/ compared to Dmin7/ G7/ C6/ (OVER Fmaj7 in bass) i know its difficult because this whole subject of LCC, is fairly advanced information. (if we were in person with instruments the communication would be way easier ) i just want you to know how i hold you i high regard :D

[@blex9125]

Reminds me of that bird quote where he talks about playing extensions

[@johnjacquard863]

@@blex9125 thats right.

[@johnjacquard863]

@@blex9125 try this out. think of it as you have two chords tsacked togther a bass chord a highs chord. now take third inversion Fmaj7 as a drop3 voicing in bass then in upper register a Bmin7b5 as drop 2 ( all four inversions) and here is 5 flavors of fmajor organized that way Fmaj7 over FMaj7 drop2 ...........drop3 (3rd inversion) G7 over Fmaj7 drop2......drop3 Bmin7b5 over Fmaj7 drop2................drop3 Dmin7 over Fmaj7 drop2...........drop3 Emin7 over Fmaj7 drop2...........Drop3 the drop 2s have 4 inversions over the single drop3 in 3rd inversion Fmajor ( this only points out that voicing is a part of anything played at any time) so you have 5 unique flavors of Fmajor ( each flavor is in unity with Fmajor) now, do all same thing except Dmin7 in bass drop3 third inversion. 5 flavors of Dminor.

[@cattafish]

I think you have to seriously question the style of thinking that stresses the need to avoid certain notes because they increase tension relative to the chord. In itself that's no bad thing for the Lydian concept so long as the logic of the line conveys its own strong impression. That after all was the whole point of the theory in its historical context. The focus should be on ideas and creating phrasing, not the 'correct' notes for the chord. If you rule out avoid notes then you'd likely be focussing more on not making 'mistakes' than creating a meaningful phrase. You would also be forced into the position of criticising actual solos by great players who've all played 'avoid notes a lot of the time. There's a difference after all between playing one and stressing one. A quickly resolving 'avoid note' in a quickly moving eighth note line isn't going to be what the listener hears. They hear the phrase as a totality rather than its component notes I think you'd be better to say that as it would be more helpful to students. What's also missing in this presentation, is the change in perspective you get when convert say a V to I resolution in C in to Lydian tonics. Vertically speaking that would be an F Lydian to C resolution. The focal point changes and you're less likely to create a line from the root of the chord as you would in the Berkley method. In fact, you're already dealing with chord guide tones as soon as you think in terms of an F Lydian root over a Dm7 G7. And you're not limited to the 'correct' scale. You can use any scale of the 8 member scales or any others that you might have to hand; Messiaen modes etc. Depending on the way the chords are voiced of course. And that is also key to a full understanding of Russell's methods. This is more in keeping with the way bebop players developed the idiom; staying clear of the bass function, creating lines over the higher chord members and extensions making it seem almost bitonal. This is what gives Parker's lines and later Dolphy' such an "untethered" feel.

[@nialvora]

LCC is redundant as musicians already knew how to improvise and re-invent the melody way before George Russell. Barry Harris put in a lot of effort in making sense out of what was happening since in the late 30's and was able to connect it all the way to the classical age. I really appreciate your in-depth analysis of Charlie Parker's music but i dont understand why spend so much time on LCC as all Russell has done is use the same modes in a different order and calling it something else.

[@bebopreview3187]

I'll answer your comment in the next exciting installment of 'the Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization'

[@rogerpercival5486]

Dodo bird f Lydian chromatic scale is based on two major chords being used that have no avoid notes. ,if you change around the order like you are it’s not a Lydian chromatic concept ... dfac is not efface fgbd pattern

[@rogerpercival5486]

Cookie cutter systems are stupid , it’s not the same they as learning scales to be interchanged