The Game Dev Success Ladder with Chris Zukowski

[@supapaw]

I can't get enough of Chris.

[@GgdaOrganic]

Do you think we should have him back? What should he speak on next?

[@PorkotylerClips]

How to keep promoting a game post-launch @@GgdaOrganic

[@GgdaOrganic]

@@PorkotylerClips Good idea!

[@PherPhur]

Get a room

[@supapaw]

@@PherPhur I'm game

[@sezpul8325]

what a King. I was waiting for him to step out of the way so I could screenshot stuff and he says "let me step out of the way so you can screenshot this".

[@ahmedgamel.content]

Chris is the only person in the world that I can watch for thousands of hours without getting bored

[@GgdaOrganic]

And learn something new everytime

[@andrewevanyshyn1709]

This talk was extremely refreshing to see.

[@gameboardgames]

Mega-useful, thanks! Learned so much useful stuff in this one video.

[@GgdaOrganic]

Good luck with your game development

[@雪鷹魚英語培訓的領航]

Great job Chris. One of the most enjoyable presentations I've listened to. Great energy.

[@Rad_Roxxi_Music]

brb, pivoting my five year plan to becoming a full time horse game dev

[@dinokknd]

Apparently you'll get an audience that won't say neigh to your games then!

[@wolfpox]

Unironically, do a small dumb horse game with a demo and let us know

[@Pixelkabinett]

Thanks so much!

[@l2ic3]

Chris isn't even a game dev himself and he knows you shouldn't try to make your first game your magnum opus! Indie devs, listen to this man! Make small games first!!!

[@GgdaOrganic]

Great advice. Do something you know you can accomplish before you try to make your dream game

[@trifilosgr]

Had no idea

[@Trupen]

28:27 That sound 💀

[@egeklc4093]

Well thank you! Please keep continue to talk with Chris Zukowski

[@yoqqen]

16:09 video start

[@GgdaOrganic]

16:09 might be a better start point

[@yoqqen]

@@GgdaOrganic appreciated!

[@regalx1]

So at @43:13 I've been hearing that word "Social proof" a lot recently when it comes to marketing. It seems true that even dedicated review sites don't know if a new game is going to be hot or not. So it is a chicken or egg situation that you need have a lot engagement to trade up for more engagement. I do like the idea that you mentioned also about packaging your game with other stuff like tutorials, or services to help get recognized. Also don't make your dream game your first game, that makes more sense due to what you've mentioned before. Still I wish I could find a video specifically detailing how social proof works.

[@michaeljburt]

I think it's simpler than that. Your game has to be the "root cause" of the virality. Of course IGN doesn't know if your game with be hot. But if you can make a viral post that gets a few thousand likes, you've generated some "social proof" and you have something to bargain with.

[@jordant3512]

31:00 How do you launch your demo? As a free game on Steam and then promote or Itch? Or do you mean only to streamers?

[@jordant3512]

Me too, I would like to know also 😂

[@suitNtie22]

this man just gives literal actual gold. its unbelievable

[@GgdaOrganic]

Agreed

[@limesta]

51:24 I agree, I started my dream game, and its MASSIVE in detail, and I realized I cannot push this game as magnum opus without a few practice runs first, I know other markets are different, but I am pushing out my first mobile game and then a few small steam games just to get comfortable with the market.

[@GgdaOrganic]

Smart move! Good luck

[@twosoulfox]

Good Chris is healthy again. Thanks so much.

[@AndrzejGieraltCreative]

Watching this now - might be best to just cut the first 16 minutes in KZbin studio :) very easy and people won't have to skip ahead in case they miss the description.

[@GgdaOrganic]

Done. The KZbin studio editor is not the best for fine editing, but let us know what you think.

[@KarmBDV22]

@@GgdaOrganic I would do the same for the last 20 minutes as well... It makes the video unnecessarily long.. 1 hour video looks less daunting than a 1:30 h long video.

[@GgdaOrganic]

@@KarmBDV22 Thanks for the suggestion. Let us know what you think of the new changes

[@KarmBDV22]

Wow, that was fast! Thank you so much!

[@facundoleonforte1565]

Amazing content

[@ColdBeamGamesChannel]

Amazing video. Thanks Chris and GGDA.

[@jonnysgames6492]

Amazing vid super informational. I love u Chris.

[@wolfpox]

This is a very good lecture

[@brandonbell3133]

THIS IS GOLD

[@nupaliruns]

alright ! time to make my -dream- horse game

[@jeanfouche3904]

Gautoz is a french streamer who does "VideoGame press" on twitch/yt

[@williamtucker3700]

Be good if you covered suggestions about staying at the top of the steam wish lists, sales conversions, new features, extending the long tail, etc?

[@amazingoranges]

This is a great video. If I become successful a year from now, I'm crediting this video.

[@GgdaOrganic]

Let us know!

[@evanlane1690]

Oooof. COVID kicked you out of GDC? Sorry for the lost opportunity. Your content is fantastic and I hope you're feeling well!

[@indieApocalipse]

What pages do you recommend to see data on games released on Steam, data such as the number of wish lists or other things?

[@JasonNewman-s7l]

The story about the investors asking how they can just pay money to get on the front page of Steam makes me actually appreciate the Steam algo in that case. What a nightmare it could be if it were just cluttered with shitty well funded mobile games.

[@josephan6953]

this video autoplayed in the background as i was doing some other stuff, but damn have i stumbled upon some diamonds

[@El_Poro]

Chris: There's no secret thing! It's all about having a great game! Also chris: Psst... psst... make a horse game kiddo, just trust me... go!

[@ElianeGameDev]

Thanks for your video !

[@meanmole3212]

Time to put your horse in the race

[@jonathanlochridge9462]

So, what I am hearing is if your game isn't pretty but has deep gameplay don't post on twitter, just spend more time making a cool demo and just focus on getting a fun demo out as soon as possible.

[@flamisus]

Very good, thank you! Regarding what you said, this means that you can join Steam Seasonal Sales (like summer sales) with just a demo?

[@howtomarketagame]

No. A sale is not a festival. It has to be themed events like Steam Puzzle Fest

[@evanlane1690]

Are festivals the same as conferences in this context? Or like online festivals of some kind? I'm new to this and not sure.

[@GgdaOrganic]

The festivals discussed here are generally online events like the Steam Next Fest. We still recommend showing your game at in-person conferences like DreamHack and Momocon as well. Not only do those give you exposure, but you get great first-hand feedback

[@KrakenStudiosGames]

Odd. My first game was my dream game and it was successful. My 2nd game was the other half of my dream game... it was successful. Now I am on my 3rd game and have my 4th and 5th setup. I did have a publisher though for the first 2. Now I am going at it alone. Your videos really helped me realize the solo path. I also paid attention to what my publisher did.

[@GgdaOrganic]

Feel free to mention the games here, if you can also say what steps you think helped them succeed

[@KrakenStudiosGames]

@@GgdaOrganic WarPlan and WarPlan Pacific.... I didn't do anything. The publisher did. They basically followed the same steps. It was only 3-4 months pre-release. The did one game play video. Also screen shots. What I think made it a success. #1 not in a common field.... WW2 strategy game. #2 not in a common format..... Most games in this field are 1 hex, 1 unit, 1 click, 1 attack. I made my games multi-hex attack, stacking, and taking many principles from board games that were the most popular of the time. #3 good UI and UX... my wife has 2 masters in UX and instructional design. She taught me a lot about UX. I took a moderately complex game and made it easy to navigate. #4 deep strategy.... at first players complained, this was too hard that was too hard. But over time they tried different things and realized it isn't a min-max game or an optimizing game. It is a deep strategy game where strategic and operational thinking were required. Long term planning was required. The bad. #1 Not great graphics. #2 clumsy code that needed a lot of debuging after the fact as I had not coded in 25 years. I only try and make games are NOT like everyone else. But my focus is strategy hex games with a board game feel hiding the complexity in the code allowing players to think more and have more fun with an easy UI interface. I certainly understand why there are so many clones out there. It is much easier to make a 1 unit per hex, 1 click game. My next game is a fantasy strategy lite 4x, lite RPG, all deep strategy. The store should be up any day after Steam approval. So far the beta testers like it. The see the depth of the game. If you take two things from my experience is to do something others have not done and think about how to make players think beyond min-maxing the game. Love your stuff. Absolutely love it. I loved the piece you did on the user testing. My wife 100% approved of that video. Thought it was excellent. I changed my Steam page and images.

[@wolfpox]

I'm curious, how do you define successful?

[@KrakenStudiosGames]

@@GgdaOrganic WarPlan, WarPlan Pacific, and now Kingdom, Dungeon, and Hero which has been a larger success so far than the other 2.

[@KrakenStudiosGames]

@@wolfpox Success is different for different people. For me I define success by making games that create an income that I can support myself. But my bar was set higher than most. I had a lot of experience with wargames and role playing games over many years so I had a unique perspective since the 1980s. I already knew how to code from my youth, although I don't consider myself an amazing coder. My wife taught me application design and how to use photoshop. I did a lot of research on my all 3 of my games to find a niche that was profitable. I also enjoy all parts of game design: graphics, sound editing, design, UI, and computer opponents. I am also good with people. From much of my research I discovered quite a few devs don't like one part or another. I sort of am a unicorn. I can do a lot myself. So my bar was pretty high because I did a mountain of work before I even started making the first one. Luckily I never read the article that 80% of developers fail to make a living at it. I think my wife's teachings was 50% of my success. But if I was 18 with no money, living at home, and no experience... I'd say success is making a game people like playing and making a just enough money to cover my costs. It would be a learning experience.

[@R3GARnator]

Usually, I play GDC presentations in the background. This one was too interesting for that.

[@GgdaOrganic]

And it's not a GDC presentation :) We hope you enjoy the GGDA ones in the fore or background

[@tintedglass]

As someone who loves horse games. 100%, there's money to be made with a good horse game.

[@bjornterlegard]

Are you also excited for that Khiimori horse game coming in September? 😊

[@Supreme-Emperor-Mittens]

29:56 - If I earned $150,000 I would be very happy. In my country, that's well over Half a Million Dollars :)

[@GlitchingMind]

Woah, Which country do you live in?

[@tldmbruno]

26:54 I need one clarification Chris! When you said Multiplayer games did you mean ANY non-singleplayer game - that would include Lethal Company, Minecraft, Terraria, Stardew Valley, etc. - or did you mean games with matchmaking (mostly preeminent in competitive multiplayer games) - that would include League of Legends, CoD, Team Fortress, Valorant - ?

[@howtomarketagame]

Games with matchmaking. It is hard to fill a server lobby with randos

[@L0v0lup]

Why does Steam hate Tower Defense? I am starting out with one, because it feels like such a good first game [genre].

[@GgdaOrganic]

Definitely create the game you can

[@SarovokTheFallen]

19:34 - How does he know...??? GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!

[@applebard]

Bracing myself for horror horse games coming soon

[@Crittek]

What’s an alternative to a demo for a multiplayer game. (I understand it’s hard lol) We we’re thinking a betas combined with Twitch pushes.

[@GgdaOrganic]

You can launch a multiplayer demo with a time or turn limit so players can try it without getting the full experience

[@twosoulfox]

Yeah, it's make or break. Most people underestimate that games are made by humans and not every human is a perfect marketing machine and will just swallow his failures. You gotta stay strong when the waves come crushing in (and be accountable for your work).

[@GgdaOrganic]

Absolutely agree. We always encourage people to create what they are driven to create, even beyond what the algorithms suggest. However, if a dev wants to create more than one game, and do it in a way that sustains them emotionally and financially, we have to broaden our perspective.

[@twosoulfox]

@@GgdaOrganic I will do my absolute best. If I stay alive, I will help others with my experience/knowledge. We should work together.

[@jasonl9266]

Why don't the universal platform work out ??

[@licriss]

Gotta disagree on domekeeper, that screenshot was boring but the colour scheme and clean pixel art in the trailer makes it gorgeous

[@howtomarketagame]

Well they tried to tweet images of the game, and they didn't go viral. That is why I say the visuals don't go viral. It isn't a game that is "see-it-to-believe-it" It didn't get pickup until the demo launched and people could see how fun it was.

[@licriss]

@@howtomarketagame fair point for sure I'm totally just speaking from my perspective not hard numbers or anything. I guess for me the visuals is entirely what pulled me in to check the game out, just such a clean colour scheme and a very clear vibe, when so many games' visuals are either just janky and half baked looking or chaotic and full of just visual noise

[@muuubiee]

Why would early access be harder? Is it because there's no email being sent? I feel like with EA you'd do all the steps as before, but just launch it as EA before it's totally finished. If you have all the wishlists already it feels like it wouldn't make much of a difference.

[@DINGOS30]

Hi Doug DeMuro i didnt know you're a gamer now!

[@635574]

How about making free to play as an indie? Im kinda opposed to charging for games but im not insane or rich enough to make them actually free

[@ParagonGary]

What is Steam's "daily Deal" exactly?

[@RealFakePhD]

50 minutes median game time? I thought a demo should be 30 mins top, or do you mean they keep coming back to play it?

[@howtomarketagame]

Yup! Playing is believing games get endless replayability. THAT is what steam likes.

[@warriorblood]

I always find it troubling some aspects with the argument of "release a small shitty game first that takes 6 months or less only" meanwhile many indie developers have found success with ambitious/complex first projects, that took time and money without any prior game-launch experience or even game dev exp. (Ex, CupHead, DISCO ELYSIUM, CHOO CHOO CHARLES, Shovel Knight, TheVagrant, Nine Years of Shadows, Bloody Spell, Bright Memory, Signalis, Lobotomy Corporation, and I am sure I am missing more ) There's a difference between creating your dream game *first* vs making a good first game. The idea of a "small" game that takes six months already feels like a setup for failure, because, experience?. I'm not entirely against this idea, but it often comes across as too absolute when it should really be considered on a case-by-case basis.

[@santiagoarguedas4495]

I interpret it more so as "don't make your first game your passion project if you're a complete beginner", because a lot of people don't even know what their strengths are when they get into game dev. A lot of the games you've listed have developers who have experience in either art, programming or storytelling, or even a combination of these aspects. Also, in the case of Choo Choo Charles, Two Star had already released 4 games prior.

[@howtomarketagame]

Someone wins the lottery every day, that doesn't mean it is a good idea to buy a lottery ticket. There are always exceptions. But that is survivorship bias. The vast majority of developers will never release more than 1 game and most games will under perform. That is my concern. Also CHOO CHOO CHARLES was not made by a first time dev, he had many small games before. Shovel Knight was made by developers who used to work for WayForward which made games since the NES era. Usually when you look into these "first time developers" they had long careers at other gaming companies to learn their craft. That is not to diminish their skill. I say that to remind people they got their "smaller games" during this period.

[@marcapouli7805]

My ladder is made of crap. All the reachable rungs are rotten and vanished into dust. Everyday I try to jump to reach the other ones, but I can't jump higher than my maximum. And I can't afford buying a new ladder

[@wolfpox]

Send me a link to your demo, I don't stream but I have 140k followers on TikTok

[@marcapouli7805]

@@wolfpox I don' t even have a tiktok account

[@MongoGamer]

What! If you make it to thr front its roughly 300k but even if you dont is still six figures????? Bro i make 200 a month even kinda crappy release would be life changing!

[@VodySly]

steams cut, potential engine cuts, also if you have a publisher big cut, if theres multiple people working on your team, taxes.

[@jasonl9266]

He said make a horse game..I've been making a horse game for 3 years! Lol

[@chadsutphen9401]

Lol, ”…..and you do this…..until you wanna Die….then launch.”

[@bloodmoondefense]

Step 1: Have a viral game.

[@MM-kc8ch]

Well, I had a viral tiktok account about my game with millions of views. So my game has a magic according to your opinion. My game was sold 5800 in 3 years. Your "magic" s u ks, bro..

[@howtomarketagame]

Sorry to hear that. How many wishlists did the tiktok bring in? I am curious what your game is.

[@MM-kc8ch]

@howtomarketagame on my old account I have about 85K subscribers. I've got only ~400 wishlists in a week after one of my videos made 1M+ views and ~400K likes (the very first video). After that I've got many videos that hit 100K views but it barely affected sales. There were too many children who just downloaded pirated versions of my game.

[@MM-kc8ch]

@howtomarketagame @howtomarketagame on my old account I have about 85K subscribers. I've got only ~400 wishlists in a week after one of my videos made 1M+ views and ~400K likes (the very first video). After that I've got many videos that hit 100K views but it barely affected sales. There were too many children who just downloaded perated versions of my game.

[@MM-kc8ch]

@@howtomarketagame Hey! I have a TikTok account about my game with 85K followers. When my very first video got 1M views with 300K likes, I've only got ~400 wishlists in 3 days (when this video was shown). After that I uploaded a lot of new videos and many of them got 100K views but they hardly affected the sales and wishlist number. According to my TT account I now have 83K followers and 2.1M likes for all videos and only 5900 sales with 14000 wishlists in about 4 years (now) after release. I guess only kids with no money were attracted to it, as they only played pirated copies of my game.

[@orangelimesky]

Blasphemous is a metroidvania. That's why it got famous.

[@howtomarketagame]

Metroidvania is still a very difficult genre. In my research only 3.10% of them succeed every year vs something like a roguelike deckbuilder which 7.78% succeed.

[@orangelimesky]

@@howtomarketagame The statistic for that is inaccurate. Most games that self-proclaim to be metroidvanias are not actually metroidvanias. They're usually rogue-likes/procedurally generated/puzzle platformers disguised as metroidvanias. The traditional metroidvanias that follow Super Metroid/Castlevania's tried and true formula, always wins. I have yet to see a single metroidvania that play like either of them to not be successful.

[@howtomarketagame]

@@orangelimesky Well I can't argue with that. The reasoning checks out.