German Offensives in Tunisia and the Battle of Kasserine Pass

[@nonamesplease6288]

Great presentation. My grandfather was a US Army engineer officer in North Africa and Sicily before he got malaria and wound up in the hospital. Apparently, he was at Kasserine Pass, but he never spoke about his war experiences. My mother told me as a youngster about Kasserine before I knew any of the history. Apparently, the memories were too painful to relate.

[@WW2TV]

Thanks for sharing TARFU

[@hillarymcnerney8141]

What was his name? My husband’s grandfather was also an Engineer and was captured at Kasserine. Spent the next three years in a German POW camp.

[@Ensign_Nemo]

One of the reasons why the US tankers were not fully trained is that the US sent the first 300 Sherman tanks that had been earmarked for training purposes to the British Eighth Army after the fall of Tobruk. These made up about 30% of the 1000 tanks that the British had at the Second Battle of El Alamein, and these Shermans were about an equal match in quality to the German Mark IV panzers. One maxim of military strategy is to concentrate your forces at the decisive point at the decisive time. From a global POV, it made sense to send the Sherman tanks to Egypt. A hidden but very real price paid for the British victory at El Alamein was the American defeat at Kasserine Pass. US armored units did not fight effectively at first, in part because the US Army didn't have enough Sherman tanks to properly train them. General Marshall knew this would happen, but he sent the tanks anyway because he knew that they were needed more in Egypt than they were needed in the training grounds of the US.

[@arkadiy9321]

It would have helped if the principle of concentration would be followed locally. You have most of 21st Panzer division and approximately a half of 10th striking against not even a third of the 1st AD. If the division had all of its organic power available : 1st and 13th tank regiments and 6th Armored infantry and 68th Field Artillery, I strongly suspect that it would be a very different battle regardless of whether the medium tanks were M3s or M4s

[@morganhale3434]

Very interesting discussion and this is the type of revisionist history that matters. This revising of the narrative is about better research and more data, not political or social bias which is very prevalent in revisionist historical analysis. This whole group of shows on Torch and Tunisia has been wonderful so far. Interesting and fun topics (I really loved the Casablanca episode), very good guests, and a whole lotta new knowledge being shared on-line. A definite home run Paul and this campaign deserved the deep dive you are giving it.

[@Neaptide184]

Torch keeps getting more fascinating

[@scottgrimwood8868]

An excellent presentation by Mark. I really appreciated Mark's view of the entire campaign not just a single event.

[@chazmena]

Thanks, Woody. I feel better. Being a rank, amateur historian wannabe I always separated Kasserine Pass and El Guitar. Never thought of it as a series of battles ending in victory and liberation of Tunisia.

[@Chiller01]

Excellent episode. Gary Calhoun delivers another knowledgeable presentation. I learned a lot about this misunderstood series of actions.

[@arkadiy9321]

Perhaps it was mentioned at some point, but just in case it wasn't. For those interested in more details: for the entire period of Torch landings through the campaign's end: Northwest Africa: Seizing the Initiative In the West by George F. Howe. Specifically for the Kasserine battle (starting from Faid pass capture): Kasserine Pass Battles Staff Ride Background Materials I would also point out that "Bazookas in boxes", while makes a cool story (CO of 168th IR col Drake even mentions it in his diary ), is overhyped IMO. Anti-tank artillery is by far superior equipment for the purpose.

[@michaelc4645]

Hi, very interesting to hear some of the places talked about by Mark in this presentation. A few years ago I acquired a 42 dated US Army map spanning Algeria, Morocco and Tunis. The exposed parts (when folded) of the map are stained brown and the map itself contains hand written notations of locations up to Kesserine and the surrounding area including Sbeitla. I would quite like to get some images of the map to Mark as I think he would find it quite interesting. Perhaps you may be able to assist in that regard? I had looked online but at can’t find any direct contact details for Mark. I look forward to hearing from you.

[@vcv6560]

This presentation really built on my understanding of the battle I only began to understand after reading An Army at Dawn. I had assumed it was a single battle. In terms of 'presentation bias' and such I have to say World at War depicts (episode 13 Tough Old Gut) the US as being routed and only saved by the British.

[@1089maul]

Woody/Mark. Great presentation. Thanks, Bob

[@nickmay625]

yet again superb presentation

[@curtiswebb8135]

Thank you from California. You are setting standards. World class... Keep kicking ass.

[@maxcaravan7584]

It's really interesting to hear how Americans felt about the criticism of their capacity to fight because I think some of their people were pretty good at dishing it out as well. Perhaps the lesson here is be careful what you say and how you say it in stressful situations! Of course easier said than done. The other thing of interest was comment on conduct of leadership - when things are going well we tend to ignore less attractive attributes but when going not to well those are the ones that are highlighted. I do love this channel because it really makes you think about a lot things not just war.

[@KevinJones-yh2jb]

Another brilliant subject and presentation on WW2TV, such knowledge and detail,thanks Mark and Paul, another subject so much I learnt

[@dennisweidner288]

Of course close air support doctrine was not covered at the Desert Training Center because the Army Air Corps not only did not have a close air support doctrine but wanted nothing to do with it. This did not come about until Elwood Pete Quesada began to formulate it in Noth Africa and was not fully put together until D-Day,

[@tonyvart7068]

Very good presentation indeed.....a top notch guest.

[@philbosworth3789]

That was a very good presentation from Mark, and the Sidebar Crew were on form. Another great show Woody @WW2TV.

[@WW2TV]

Yep, the side-bar is super today

[@cheesenoodles8316]

The Desert Training Center, many trips there starting in the 80s riding ...allot of history...and a few artifacts.

[@TheVigilant109]

Excellent presentation by Mark as usual. Learned a lot today. Many thanks

[@linnharamis1496]

Another great program- thank you both.👍

[@michaeldunne338]

Very nice segment. With Kasserine, I usually think of the morbid first scenes from the movie Patton - so feel this point made in the presentation and chat hit the mark: "popular memory shaping the historical narrative, despite the evidence." I had thought of Kasserine pass as a spoiler attack that gained some traction but then petered out, leaving the Americans embarrassed with a black eye. This presentation provided really excellent perspective and a bounty of details and facts on the history of this engagement. Very good quality history that is much needed.

[@thegreatdominion949]

Paul, given this controversial take, I would be interested to see a panel discussion on this subject and the larger Tunisian campaign to conclude this theme period similar to what you did at the end of El Alamein Week.

[@WW2TV]

Yep, good idea. I am planning such a show right now

[@jimmarnell3964]

Try to bring in Rob Citino into this panel

[@WW2TV]

I've not had any success contacting Mr Citino yet

[@grantamos6299]

KZbin better recognize!

[@grantamos6299]

Paul Woodage’s dedication to consistently creating high quality, longer form historical content along with all of the top notch guest presenters featured on WW2TV.

[@linnharamis1496]

Thanks!

[@davidk7324]

"Journalism is the first rough draft of history." P. Graham.

[@dennisweidner288]

@davidk7324 It used to be before all journalists were woke social justice warriors.

[@lollypop333100]

Thanks for this very intresting explanation about the Kasserine Pass battles...i always figured it as a devastating American defeat but it seems a victory at last...Why did Rommel not hold the line in Lybia?...what could he achieve in Tunisia?...even if he won the battle what would be next?...

[@user-ve5fi1ld8s]

My father was a sargent in the 9th division, just received the 105s they trained with prior to Thala all night drive to set up at zero elevation with ghost battalion Britts .. at dawn the Panzers .. maybe 200? were attacking (Rommel) . My dad was glad to be rid of the pac 75. He had a great deal of details about that, he went on to Sicily, then Normandy..

[@craigbelling9436]

My father was at Kasserine.

[@marchuvfulz]

Great presentation. I thought Col. Calhoun could have discussed in greater detail the issues with American defense against German armored offensives. I wonder if the Americans could have been better prepared to deal with German armor. It's like they didn't really absorb the tactical lessons the British had learned (at tremendous cost) in France and North Africa.

[@WW2TV]

There's always a greater level of depth we could go into, but the ultimate aim is to keep the shows to a manageable length

[@billballbuster7186]

Great presentation as always. British and American troops fought well together as they did here. The friction tended to be with more senior Officers who had different priorities. Kasserine was indeed part of a larger German offensive which in the end was defeated. The German propaganda machine only highlighting the bit that they won to distract from the overall defeat.

[@whiteleghorn6835]

Important to note the Americans were fighting with a lot of worn out French artillery to make up the lack of artillery at kaserene

[@coachhannah2403]

The M4 was easily the equivalent of the PzIV at all stages of the war. Far superior to the PzIII, and not overwhelmed by the PzVI when used correctly.

[@WW2TV]

It didn't come up in this specific show, but generally the most important factor, more important than type and mark, is - FIRST SHOT COUNTS

[@coachhannah2403]

@@WW2TV - True enough, as well as how the machines are handled. I was reacting to a specific comment made during the show, but I did not note the time stamp.

[@WW2TV]

The problem with definitive statements like "The M4 was easily the equivalent of the PzIV" is that they don't allow for nuance because it's never a game of Top Trumps. Welded or Riveted hull on the M4? Which ammunition with the PzIV? Plus the big ones being in attack or defence? At what range. The more I learn, the more I realise that comparing tank types is largely irrelevant. It's comparing systems and doctrine that's rewarding

[@jefesalsero]

When he speaks about the race to Tunis after Operation Torch and "whatever resistance we faced there - fairly minimal." Okay, we understand that, but it's those kinds of statements that continue to downplay the significance of the combat action that took place there. The reality is that the Vichy French forces in Morocco did, in fact, put up some determined resistance, and even conducted counterattacks, and inflicted casualties on American forces. They did not simply roll over and surrender without a fight. That needs to be acknowledged, even within the context of this presentation.

[@WW2TV]

Downplay of just not address in detail because it was beyond the scope of this specific show?

[@KG-1]

Very good. Raises Army At Dawn in prority list. Will be interesting to read how Rick Atkinson treats this. There's a guest author to get on sometime Paul. Like the combination of field grade professional experience and writing history. Iron Majors are key in any army, that's where the hard work is.

[@WW2TV]

I have invited Rick, but he has moved away from WWII now to focus on the Revolutionary war

[@KG-1]

@@WW2TV That's too bad. I've read that first book on ARW "The British Are Coming". It's very good. Based on how he writes and the long slog necessary to get that trilogy done, I could see an exhaustion factor creeping in. Wonder how PCA is feeling on that score. Ask him how many more 500 page books on WW2 of lifeforce he thinks he has left in him. 😆

[@WW2TV]

PCA is incredible. Even with his health issues he keeps on working

[@KG-1]

@@WW2TV guess that means he's still got issues then. Sad to here. His Bulge book is masterful. Have all three.

[@WW2TV]

He's on the mend, but yes he's had some health challenges

[@nickdanger3802]

TEST I made three attempts to compare friendly losses to enemy losses here to Kursk in the last two days. All were deleted in less than a minute.

[@WW2TV]

Then you are using blocked words or prohibited links

[@nickdanger3802]

@@WW2TV TEST At Citadel/Kursk Germany inflicted losses on a ratio of at least two to one in every category and it was a huge Soviet victory.

[@WW2TV]

Working okay

[@MegaBloggs1]

one wonders if rommel had all the available tigers and the fuel of tebessa whether a defeat in detail would have been achieved

[@coachhannah2403]

Kasserine was a skirmish and overblown. Kind of like the first few days of The Bulge.

[@WW2TV]

Hmmm, hardly a skirmish when you consider that it was more than one single battle

[@coachhannah2403]

@@WW2TV - Referring to the actual contest in the pass itself, which is what people point to to say it was a disaster.

[@miketrusky476]

Rommel held the pass for 4 days. Inexperienced USA learned real QUICK.

[@MegaBloggs1]

if Rommel had ignored von arnim and taken tebessa and then turned north and taken thala-defeat in detail would have been possible of the western forces...and he would have had fuel stocks!!!so ammunition and food by air from sicily

[@rocksteel44]

. .AUSGEZEICHNET!!!

[@MagisterMagnificum]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3esgWuug7FpfbM Does he mean Mark Bloch?

[@Fulcrum205]

The Sherman was better than all of the German tanks except the Tigers in N.Africa. It makes me sad when even professional officers and historians fall for Wehraboo mythmaking. The Americans lost a bunch of tanks because the commanders didnt understand reconnaisance and kept exposing their vehicles to AT guns and driving into mines.

[@WW2TV]

A tank can be "better" but used ineffectively, that's the story of Kasserine

[@Fulcrum205]

@WW2TV totally agree. Green as grass troops and no TTPs developed yet.