German vs American Schools - American's Surprising Reaction To The German School System 🇩🇪

[@PassportTwo]

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[@nik-roshansirak3398]

11:20 - Graduated from Gymnasium in 2010 - After trying to understand the diffrence of US college and university recently, it sounds to me, like finishing German Gymnasium is more like a college degree, IF YOU PAY ATTENTION AND TAKE SCHOOL SERIOUSLY! 😅 Your Highschool seems to be more like our Realschule, MORE OR LESS... Besides, as you seem to be into traveling, if you want your child to know anything about geography do yourself a favour and send it to a German school. Or a French one. Or in Spain. Or... ANY place, except the US (and probably Canada)😂

[@gustavmeyrink_2.0]

When I went to school in Niedersachsen and Berlin(West) there was no exam to be sat at the end of Grundschule. The determination of which further school you got recommended for was an ongoing process covering 2 years which kinda ran unnoticeably in the background during the last 2 years of Grundschule ie 5th and 6th grade. Gymnasium (which is where I was sent to) started in 7th grade. If you successfully pass Gymnasium US universities will give you a Bachelor degree in 2 years instead of 4.

[@gustavmeyrink_2.0]

@@troglodyte0 In the PISA study the US reached a score of 478 which puts them 38th in the world. German pupils got 500 placing Germany at 20th place. However the German score is an average of Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium. Taking the Gymnasiasten on their own they'd score 600. The official number 1 China scores 'only' 591.

[@nik-roshansirak3398]

@@gustavmeyrink_2.0 neither was there an exam in Schleswig-Holstein, you had to reach certain grades and then the headteacher would recommend to which school you would go, but your parents could decide otherwise, although most people, who attended Gymnasium without recommendation, didn't make it within the first two years. Most of left left after half a year. From what I've heard certain grades are mandatory in Bavaria though...

[@tramper42]

8:23 @PassportTwo : you forget, that AFTER school your kids start their ~3 years learning a profession = Ausbildung, getting ALSO practical experience, while university involve too less practical experience. ALSO: if your kids later really (and show the ability ) WANT to go to university, THEY CAN. They have to do do ‚Fachabitur‘ … Choosing ONE path in ‚Oberschule‘, is NOT the end of education, at least in Germany. PLEASE ask your German friends and contacts, before you panic 😉

[@popelgruner595]

You realize that there is mandatory Berufsschule after Hauptschule or Realschule so you will barely find any German student with less than 12 years of formal education...

[@MinotaurLP]

Because it is mandatory to go to school until you turn 18 years old!

[@popelgruner595]

@@MinotaurLP Yes exactly.

[@cayreet5992]

@@MinotaurLP sixteen, actually. You can drop out of school without you or your parents getting into trouble once you turn sixteen. Yes, vocational school after secondary school means people usually go to school until they're 18 or older, but you're not forced to go to school after you've turned 16 if you don't have a job and thus don't go to vocational school.

[@maxirok8069]

​@@cayreet5992 falsch. Es besteht eine Vollzeit-Schulpflicht bis 16 und eine Beschulungspflicht bis 18.

[@martinmatte1518]

@@maxirok8069 falsch...there is a "Schulpflicht" of 10 years, not linked to the age at all^^

[@christinamekelburger7928]

Many questions to answer, so I'll make it as short as possible (remember? Germans are frank 😉): 1. No test in the end of grade 4. Instead an evaluation of the over all performance throughout years 3 and 4. Especially concerning the type of learning the child is strong at: more like learning by heart or more like analysing, understanding, finding connections? 2. Yes, there is a seperation after grade 4, sometimes after grade 6. But that doesn't mean you can't reach the Abitur (= allowed to university): change to Gymnasium after having graduated from Realschule; take a few extra courses at your Berufsschule while training for the job or even finish your apprenticeship and then go study a related subject at a university. (There also is a fourth type of school called "Gesamtschule" that takes all children and offers A- and B- courses depending on the learning-velocity.) 3. True - at Universities very few subjects aside your main study program. But still you have to do foreign language(s), often also electives like economics for natural scientists or legal aspects of what you will be going to do later. 4. Yes, a Bachelor is supposed to take three years. But many students take/need another one or two semesters. 5. My husband (in 1990) as well as our neighbor's daughter (around 2015ish) went to the US (Washington State resp. New York State) for an exchange year of studying. They both were surprised to find out that what they were supposed to learn in their bachelor's program they had already done during school grades 10 to 13 for their Abitur. That might explain the differences in number and types of subjects beside the main program. Another main difference that you did not mention: in Germany Multiple Choice Tests are still very uncommon at school and hardly ever given whereas in the US they seem to be quite common as far as I heard...

[@nlpnt]

FWIU Berlin has Gesamtschulen partly because they have a lot of school buildings from the DDR era (and a few from the Western Powers who had built them for their own army brats) that were set up that way and partly because it's one of the more progressive states

[@Likr666]

Small addition. It is possible to switch between Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium. We had a special track at Gymnasium where pupils from Realschule and Hauptschule switched to our school. They had some additional courses for 2 or 3 years to get on the same level. 10 to 12/13 grade all were together. There are more Gesamtschlen" coming up. These schools combine all 3 schools and pupils chose after some years, where to focus.

[@MellonVegan]

You don't have to take foreign language classes at uni. This is very much programme specific. If you study business administration, sure, you may be required to take a course on business English but if you study a natural science, this is not a thing I have heard of from anyone studying in or near Münster in the last decade or two.

[@huehnerschreck751]

I myself switched from Realschule to Gymnasium after my 10th year - together with a friend . While I struggled with English (Gymnasium expected serious text analysis at this point already, in Realschule the teacher was happy if we where able to conjugate correctly ...) I had no trouble with math or the sciences. My friend dropped out of Gymnasium after a year because he wanted something more practical (he's a trained chiropractor now). We also had a few folks in Realschule that stepped down from Gymnasium in 9th grade. So the system is not fixed. Another thing is with a master in your trade you are permitted at any university. Given, catching up on theory is a struggle after so many years out of school, but several architects and engineers in Germany originally learned a trade.

[@ClaGaCla]

Yes, I also haven't heard of anyone having to take a test after grade 4 that determines what secondary scholl they'll go to. Instead the main teacher of grade 4 gives a recommendation what type of secondary school the kid would do best in, but the parents don't have to follow that recommendation. Through family members and friends who are teachers at Gymnasium and elementary school and others with kids currently or formerly in Gesamtschule I've heard a lot about the advantages and disadvantages about this system. Chief among them: kids end up in a secondary school that is not the right fit for them. Parents tend to want to send their kid(s) to Gymnasium because they perceive it as more prestigious, think attending a 'lower' level of school would mean their kid is somehow less intelligent or don't want their kid to be stuck in class with 'all those other dumb kids'. But, as was pointed out in the video, kids are different, some learn faster, some learn more slowly, some are better at book-learning and others are super handy and great at hands-on stuff or athletics etc. In theory the system is meant to split kids up so they can progress through school at their own optimal speed with the emphasis that is best for them, without having to either be slowed down by others or being the one to slow others down. But in reality it's still a 'mixed bag' so to speak of students in each school type, so you end up with kids being frustrated and stress because they're bored or because they have trouble keeping up. (And let's not even talk about the whole inclusion thing, where teachers without the training/education to do so or anyone to help them have kids with special needs in their classes, and those kids suffer for it because they are the noticeable, different minority amongst their peers and don't get the support they need. I'm sure there are exceptions where this arrangement works out for individuals, but amongst the weirdly many teachers I know ALL of them are very critical of this arrangement.) As was pointed out in another comment, it IS possible to switch between these school types, though. So if a kid starts going to one type of school and realises that's not a good fit for them they can switch to another school type that works better. I've seen this both in terms of switching from Gymnasium to Gesamtschule and the other way around amongst my friends and their families. What's also a consideration is the number of times students are allowed to repeat a grade. I used to think that there's a max number for that for a student's whole school career (or at least for their total time at secondary school), but I've since learned that that's not the case. Instead, kids are allowed a max of I think it was 2 repeats for grades 5-10 and another max 2 repeats for grades 11-13. Or something like that. So, if someone is at that maximum they can then instead switch to another type of school. At least I think so. As for the whole 3 year vs 4 year bachelor degree: I agree with Donny, that this is probably because the general education that American universities cover in the first year or so is covered in high school already in Germany, which allows German universities to get right into the thick of a given subject from the very first semester. The downside of the German way of doing it is that it's much harder to switch majors once you've started at university. Or, rather, you can switch, of course, but you'll have to start from the very beginning again and unless the new major is very similar to the old one won't be able to use any courses you've already taken. And since the government will only financially support a student's first course of studies, switching to a different program can have major consequences. Of course, tuition in Germany is nothing like what it's in the US... What's also investing in regards to university in Germany is that since we used to have different degrees (Diplom instead of Bachelor+Master), it seems that in most people's heads a Bachelor's degree doesn't seem to be a 'full' degree, and from what I understand your job options are a bit limited if you 'only' get an undergraduate degree. Mostly that seems to be seen as the prerequisite you need to get into a graduate program. A German Master's degree takes two years, which is also the theoretical time it's supposed to take in North America. But going by how astounded my Canadian colleagues where at finding out that I actually completed my (German) Master's degree in two years and the comments they made, it usually takes North American (or at least Canadian?) graduate students quite a bit longer. For a PhD it seems to then be similar, as I heard my profs in Germany talk about how a German PhD is sometimes seen as lesser in the US because it can be completed in a much shorter period of time. I think it was 3 years vs 5 years...? Or perhaps 7? One former colleague (in Canada) actually took 9 years, though admittedly there were extenuating circumstanced that slowed things down for her.

[@frankmunster1566]

What i think is absolutely important to mention, is that it is not decided after Grundschule, wheter you can go to university or not. After Hauptschule, you can also achieve a Realschulabschluss. And after Realschule, you can also switch to the Oberstufe of a Gymnasium, and get your Abitur in the end. You can also get your Abitur later on, as an adult. At any age. ("Abendgymnasium")

[@lilithiaabendstern6303]

+ since the introduction of the Bachelorsystem you have also the possibility to study for said Bachelor in certain fields of work without needing an Abitur - so not having it doesn't hold you back in life

[@jonas8936]

You can also go to a fachoberschule wich is more recommended after the Realschule because it Connects with the things you did in Realschule

[@LiopleurodonFerox]

Also I didn't take an exam to determine which school I should attend after Grundschule, my teacher gave evaluations and recommendations to the parents of each student, which they could follow or ignore. Basically it was the parent's decision, the Grundschule just gave advice on how to go on.

[@kathrinbauer5358]

But there are careers that are difficult to get into if you weren't visiting a Gymnasium (e.g. medicine). So, options are restricted compared to the Gymnasium.

[@frankmunster1566]

@@kathrinbauer5358 well, even if you visited the gymnasium, it can be quite difficult to study medicine, as your final grades must be really good, as you probably know. (yes, there are other ways, but I think we can agree, that in general a really good "Abitur" is the common way to get a place to study medicine) LG

[@Senfgurk3]

Hello,I’m a German 7th grade on Gymnasium right now and I just wanted to say ,that you can go on after 9th grade, even if you were on a Haupt- or Realschule,then you just switch the school

[@callishandy8133]

Dont forget to write = Abitur = highest grad in german school system is primary for to go to a university. But a lot companys like to see young persons with these grade for e.g. larn to work in a bank. Or learn office work. or or or They dont like young people with lower intelligence and lower ability to stand the high preassure from a german Gymnasium to get the high school grade. To compare a german and a US person ... Better say nothing until you have been in both systems. Generally if you got the highest school grade Abitur, than very often the persons dont go to university. Even if is state payed (nearly) free ... You need money and the parents can they pay for a lot of years ? Not sure that a german pass the university !! Generally most students cry and leave the university with nothing in there hands ! Good idea to sign a contract with a company for 3 (or 4) years training on the job 3 days per week and 2 days per week state business or technical school called Berufsschule. You get a little more than no money ! You are only a young person that still sleep in the childrens room for thses time until they pass the theoreticl and practial test. Than these persons are really skilled and not a chance for US young persons because of the high quality technical school training. Same technical school in US is existing ... But it is expensive ! Resulte german is very very very very very very different to US. Compare is difficult and not easy , better to write impossible. A german lost his job after some years (mabe he is a skilled car mechanic = 4 years technical school and work in the company) it is hard to find an other high level job. An office work ? In theory impossible in gemrany. Not really true but that is the way it is gerneral. In US you can hold a lawn mover, than you are a ... You know something about roof well, after a short time you are a good roofer. Same in Germany, but the company will first choose a person with training school papers and no unskilled person that was before working in a car service. Possible and legal yes, but in reality not often ... Change jobs is in germany a high risk to be very very fast a poor person. You have to work at the same job. But difficult to find a job in your area and you think if you can afford to move. Ok same in US. But different and in US you find a job if you must find a job. Germany is different. If you must find a job it is low payed and you learn to cry at night. All because of the diffent school system, the different Berufschule = special job training school (2 days school 3 days work in company) and that a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot of person got a examination form there special job school. Because it is in US expensive ... Well in germany it is state payed free, but your boss pay very very very low money per workhoure and you work only 3 days per week and for often 3 years (some jobs shorten than 3 years and e.g. car mechanic 4 years) . When you are a german and want to go to US = A degree for a job in the health system is in germany ok payed. Not bad but not good. Go to US and if they aceppt your skilled examination than you see the difference. Ok other jobs are not well payed in US. Germany and US is very very very different. Only water, air, sun, moon are identical. SMILE = (but I am not really sure about that)

[@prof7304]

At German university the Bachelor degree is supposed to take 3 years, but after that you make a Master degree which takes additional 2 years. So if you want to become a teacher f.e. you need to go through 5 years of Uni. Also if you study something in Uni, you don't need to study anything except for your subject. So if you study math and physics for becoming a teacher there is only Math, Physics and pedagogy (didactics + how to raise/educate Kids). Nothing else. You can take additional classes if you want to, but they are not mandatory and cannot exchange a mandatory module.

[@nijos.7811]

I´m in University at the moment and I need 20 credit points in non core subjects.(Allgemeine srudien) wich can be anything. I study history and archeology and I can choos anything from: History of the Byzantian Empire, Lawyer speak, ecological efects of trees, Latin, French, Spanish, Chinese,... , Russia from 1762 to today, Chinese Politics and Economy,... and so much more. I can choose whatever I want and there are a lot of history related courses to take but I could take whatever I want.

[@0oDaan12o0]

That's indeed how it works in the Netherlands. During my minor in DE I was required to take 2 language courses of 3 credits each as that's mandatory in DE and not in NL. We have all 180/240 credits on our field of study, no side business like language. we're expected to be fluent in at least 3 language before college.

[@callishandy8133]

Not useful to know these for US people. They have to use google and read what google find. I can say and write it thound times = German is not US ! Very very very very different. Impossible to compare and difficult to understand.

[@IceyJones]

you can also crosspath in germany. when you prove to be good in hauptshule and realschule, its NOT uncommon for children, to go to gymnasium from 11-12/13 grade and then go to university. the path is NOT set in stone. because kids that were behind in grundschule can still develop good later on....they then just had a slow start.....

[@Jonathan-kraai]

also works the other way round: if you struggle in Gymnasium and would need to repeat the year, you often switch to Realschule and continue with to next grade. And later perhaps switch back to Gymnasium. You can also go to university from Realschule if you had good grades. You can even go to University from Hauptschule if you learn a profession first, get a 'Meister' and then go to university. The presssure is not too high for the kids, because the still have all options later in life.

[@m.h.6470]

It's been a while for me, but I went to Hauptschule. After I believe 7th grade I was considered good enough to do extra courses during 8th and 9th grade. At the end of 9th grade, I was good enough to skip the exams of Hauptschule and went on to do Werkrealschule, which is an additional 10th grade in the same school with exams of Realschule at the end. I aced those exams and went on to go to another two-year-school, that gave me "Fachhochschulreife" - basically the degree needed to be able to go to a university of applied sciences. And of course, I did exactly that. I studied 4 years at such a university and ended up being the best of my year. It's been a long road, but I think I came out ahead 😅

[@norrinradd2364]

For example, there are two different ways for working people without an Abitur to study in Hamburg. The first path is for graduates of a further education examination, the second path is suitable for professionals with completed vocational training and professional experience. There does not have to be a technical relationship between the professional qualifications and the desired course of study. These are just two examples of the possibility of obtaining a higher education qualification without having to go through a grammar school. Others, for example, are via the "Fachhochschulreife" or a dual course of study that combines training and university, e.g. commercial training with business studies, also called "Werksstudent". There are so many ways to change paths and find the right one that suits you that it takes your own studies to figure it all out.

[@antonywerner1893]

​​@@Jonathan-kraaiactually that is the only way i had seen. From Gymnasium to Realschule not the other way around. I woes the 6 yeas on an Realschule and i know no one who cenged the school upp not down. I only Know people who were on Gymnasium for an Abitur afterworts.

[@antonywerner1893]

​@@m.h.6470interessting in what kind field.

[@melioralove5497]

You need to keep in mind, that there are many ways to get to university in Germany. I for example started at the Hauptschule. Because my grades where fine I was free to switch to Realschule in 7th grade. After I finished Realschule I visited a so called Berufskolleg where I made my Fachabitur (took 2 years) which allowed me to go to some types of university where I then got my degree. I also could have switched to a regular Gymnasium for 3 years after Realschule which then would qualify me for any university. Depending on grades of course. A Berufskolleg is a school that is more practical oriented. For example my 2 years were centered around all kine of IT topics. There are also other specified in Nature Sciences or Arts or Business stuff. I think every kid that wants to go to a university in Germany will have many options to do so. There are a lot of individual paths.

[@TimoWolf200]

I think the difference, you’re talking about is, with Fachabitur you only can go to „Universities of applied science“, while with a regular Abitur, you could go to any university, as you already mentioned.

[@Mandymilchreis]

You did the way a friend did many years ago. Now he lives in the Philippines and works for a German company! Best life ever

[@duellinksantimeta7636]

@@TimoWolf200 not if he talks about the real Fachabitur. Ich habe auch nur die Fachhochschulreife (12.Klasse) und kann damit meistens auch nur an Fachhochschulen studieren (gibt aber auch Ausnahmen z.B. in Brandenburg und einige Unis machen Ausnahmen). Wenn ich das richtige Fachaitur hätte (13.Klasse ohne 2.Fremdsprache), dann hätte ich auf dem Fachgebiet alles in einer Uni studieren können. Bsp. Ein Fachabitur in Technik würde dir erlauben ein Studium in Maschinenbau, vielleicht sogar in Physik und Mathe, an einer beliebigen Uni zu machen.

[@StrategosKakos]

Hi, a couple points to note: 1) Hauptschule is basically extinct in most of Germany by now. Rheinland-Pfalz closed the last ones back in the 2010s. We now usually have, Realschule, Gesamtschule* und Gymnasium. 2) You will not sit an exam at the end of 4th grade. Rather the kids' main teacher (SHOULD be the same on grades one through 4) will wite an evaluation of their pupils' development so far and projected and give a recommendation as to which school they would best attend going forth. Choosing a school is not a done deal after grade 4: A) Grades 5 and 6 in any of the school forms are called "Orientierungsstufe" (orientation grades). This means that materials covered will not differ by too much between Realschule, Gymansium und Gesamtschule* (comprehensive school). Thus a child can easily switch if it turns out the evaluation/ initial placement was wrong till age 12/13. B) It is always possible to switch between types, either if a child over/underachieves or if they turn out to have a more practical (Realschule) or theoretical (Gymnasium) bend. The pupils will get additional lessons to catch up on what thes missed as required. C) If you finish Realschule or Hauptschule (in Bavaria) with good enough grades, you get the socalled "Quali" (Qalifikation für die Gymnasiale Oberstufe), which will allow you to go on in grades 11 through 13 at a Gymnasium and then on to uni. School does not usually realy end after grade 10: After finisching Hauptschue or Realschule wou will go on to vocational training. This is roughly split in half between practical work in an apprenticeship in a company and haf school at a publically organized trade/vocational school with a fixed curriculum. So you will usually be "out of school" at age 15 or 16, but rather go on with vocational schooling. Even if you originally learned a trade, you can still go on to uni: A) After finishing your apprenticeship, if you did well enough, you qualify to go on to university for courses related to what you trained in through your "fachgebundene Hochschulreife". B) You can always qualify for Abitur or "allgemeine Hochschulreife" later on, too. Be it through extra courses during your apprenticeship or after hours while working. The lessons are either free (during Berufsschule) or quite cheap if done paraööeö to work, usually via the Volkshochschule. *Gesamtschule is probably the closest you will get to "American style" education in Germany: All children ofare going to the same school from grade 5 to 10, independent of the reommendation of the Grundschule teachers. The individual courses are split between Basic level (G- or Grundkurs) and Extended level (E- or Erweiterungskurs). So you could be G-level in maths, but E-Level in German and Arts&Crafts, G in sports and so on. You are able to switch (or in extremis WILL be switched) from G to E or vice versa after each school year. The better pupils will qualify for Gymnasiale Oberstufe, others will leave with Reaslschul- or Hauptschulabschlusss. Those qualified will go through with their Oberstufe at the same school with the same teachers and class mates from grade 11 through 13 and get their abitur.

[@LaserKatze]

Hauptschulen still exist… They’re just called Werkrealschulen now

[@arianesibitzky8405]

I spent my first 5 school years attending an American school in Germany and I was bored to pieces. Luckily at 11 years of age I persuaded my parents to let me attend a German Gymnasium and this turned my life around completely for the better! The education there was so much more challenging and versatile. Went on to study architecture in Germany and London after that. All in all I got a very good and well-rounded education without ever having to go into ridiculous amounts of debt. The reason why many university courses in Germany can actually focus more on the matter surrounding the student's major is that the Abitur already provides quite a high level of education regarding the so-called core subjects! University students can then focus almost solely on their major. Having said that, I studied in the 90s and our Architecture course took a good 6 years to complete if you wanted to keep your sanity. This course ended with a diploma in engineering. Back then there were no bachelor and master degrees yet for architectural studies in Germany. 😊

[@eva3414]

Super Ausbildung, breites Wissen, gut erklärt.

[@SharoneEBloom]

Another interesting difference is that in Germany, teachers who teach about grade 4 level must have a masters degree to teach whereas in the US that’s not the case. In 12 years of going through schooling (including) gymnasium in Germany, I have never taken a multiple choice test. I also recall teachers telling us that what we covered in biology is what students learn in 2years at university. You may also want to cover the differences of entering university in Germany vs. US. It’s mind boggling. I finished gymnasium in Germany and came to US for my undergraduate degree, on my very first day at College in the US, multiple professors asked why I’m in college if I already know everything and suggested that I go straight to graduate school (unfortunately the US system doesn’t recognize the German Abitur as a college equivalent degree) - I was bored out of my mind during most of college and the majority of my fellow students had no idea about world events, culture, geography, sciences, literature, music and art theory, politics, and many other subject. Some of the classes I was required to take as part of the core curriculum were equivalent to what I had learnt in 6th grade. The US educational system is a real disservice to the vast majority of its students. Another interesting difference is that at college, before each exam, students are either told by the instructor or can ask the instructor what exact content will be covered on the upcoming exam. I don’t think any German teacher would ever provide insight into that. Another major difference is that at Gymnasium, students elect 2-3 “majors” which they focus on for the last 2 years of Gymnasium and take comprehensive ~4 hour long examinations prior to graduation that cover everything they have learned on the subject in the previous 2 years.

[@MTTT1234]

When I was in school in Austria, a gymnasium, the difference with the raised hands was simply that the raised index finger shows you know the answer or you have a question, while the fully raised hand meant you were asking for permission to go to the toilet, so the teacher could simply give you permission to go to the restroom by nodding or waving their hand, without having to say anything. At least that is how it was in my class. Also, as far as I am aware , there is a difference between the German (and Austria too) and the American word 'class'. From what I know, the American word 'class' is what in Germany and Austria would be called 'subject', while the German word 'Klasse' refers to the whole group of children. If I recall from my education when I learned about the US school system, pupils are not as much grouped together subject wise as German pupils. So in America, half a class could not take a class / subject on history, and instead take a class for physical eduction, just as an example. While in Germany and Austria, there is no splitting up. All students of one 'Klasse' take all the subjects together. First subject may be English, followed by German, followed by biology, then physics, etc. There is no opt-out, or even choices, at least during the first few years. In Austria in the so called 'Oberstufe' you have to choose a second language, most school offer you to choose between French, Italian or Latin. And then in the last two years of my school you had some optional choices for some classes if you wanted to deepen you knowledge for example in history. But aside that, pupils in Austria and Germany are bound into one group so to speak.

[@xfranczeskax]

It is a common misconception that children are divided based on intelligence. They're not. They're divided based on aptitude and ability to conform to a rigid fast-paced schooling system. This may be dependent on character, neurotypicallity, family ambitions etc. Etc. Chances are though, if by grade 4 you are falling behind, you have trouble sitting at a desk staring at papers. It makes sense to send these kids to a more hands on approach school. They have the chance to rejoin the university system via the "second educational path".

[@joannajaworska0000]

I live in NRW, my son didn't need to take any exams to go to 5th grade. We, as parents, and he decided in which type of school he wanted to continue his education, it is the grades that matters. In NRW there is a 4th type of school combining the three mentioned in the video: Gesamtschule. One can get any school certificate there including Abitur. Furthermore, in my Land even those students who don't do Abi and simply finish with Fachoberreife can study at a University if they accomplish their vocational education and work 5 years or will become a Meister title.

[@eisikater1584]

Same in Bavaria, only that parents get a RECOMMENDATION about which path of education their children should best follow. For many of them, this results in disappointment (or disillusion, maybe) because most people would like to see their children at a Gymnasium. However, as to my own experience and what I heard from the neighborhood during the years, the recommendations usually are correct. Many children whose parents didn't follow the teachers' advice and HAD TO go to Gymnasium by the wish of their parents soon found themselves back at a Haupt- or Realschule, which at that age, I think, must be quite a humiliating experience.

[@joannajaworska0000]

@@eisikater1584 Exactly, not getting a recommendation to Gymnasium isn't the end of the world. I have met kids who were literally pushed into Gimnasium by their parents and had to change the school to Gesamt- or Realschule where they had good grades, but less pressure. Not to mention that e.i. in Dortmund, where I live, there are Gesamtschulen with a higher level of education as some Gimnasien.

[@eisikater1584]

@@joannajaworska0000 Maybe Gesamtschulen put a little more effort into their teaching than some of the traditional Gymnasien? Although Gesamtschulen have been around for some decades now, they're still relatively new to the system and want to prove their value. I really was curious about them and would have loved to visit one, but a Gesamtschule? In the 1980s in Bavaria? You didn't even dare mention the word in school. Vade retro satanas! Go to the the GDR, you bloody communist!

[@jojojux]

It is the same in RLP. The teacher gives a recommendation, but the final choice is up to the parents/the child.

[@manub.3847]

In Hamburg and Schleswig-Holstein there is also a corresponding recommendation for the half-year of the 4th grade. Yes, many parents choose high school contrary to the recommendation and unfortunately some students then “fall” very quickly through the system to “ Hauptschul niveau” From our children's school days, we know of 4-5 children who attended Hauptschule at the end of the 7th grade because they went to the Realschule after the 5th grade and were no longer able to keep up with the pace of learning there.

[@stringsattatched]

Regarding university, the difference is that Abitur is where you already have your well rounded education so you can then start specialising at university. There is Optionalbereich (optional classes) or whatever your university might want to call it. While which classes you take tends to be up to you, you have to gain a certain amount of credits in via those classes to finish your degree. Your average 3 year bachelor degree requires 180 credits (ECTS) in total with usually about 100-110 in your major and 50-60 in your minor, with around 20 credits for the optional classes. Those can be language classes, something from a different subject altogether, classes which teach you about studying better (I took one about good library and internet research, which included a lot of about evaluating sources, so highly useful) etc. In some degrees, espcially ones where you just have one major and no real minor, the Optionalbereich might be more restricted. Generally, the idea is that it gives people a chance to look what exists outside their main fields of study. Depending on the rules you can also use it to gain good grades and push your average a bit, which I did by taking a beginner Spanish course after having Spanish as an Abitur subject. There was no rule against it and I got a good amount of credits with great grades for basically zero work. It's always good to also check the requirements of those classes because some can be insane and demand as much work as a core subject of your major while giving you a fraction of the credits

[@ringofthebrave]

Another interesting education path in Germany is a combination of vocational training with a bachelor degree. Very popular at large industrial companies for engineering bachelors. This will provide the company with engineers which are actually skilled production workers.

[@robopecha]

i have seen that there are so many videos by americans on this topic, but the thing they always fail to see is the social part of having three levels of high school. i (german) grew up watching american high school tv shows and was always shocked by the whole cool people vs. geeks dynamics. we don't have that. those groups end up in different schools and you are in a school with more or less like-minded people. which is really nice!

[@tamara9]

Yes! I had a really bad class with a lot of misbehaving kids and was so excited to go to Gymnasium where people really wanted to learn things

[@rebbih4719]

that was not really the case for me. I always thought it was weirs learning wise. I was already frustrated with my classmates in a few classes that they were to slow or too fast for me (in Gymnasium). Now imagine the range from Hauptschule to Gymnasium trying to learn the exact same thing. Some students will be bored out of thair minds while other just can't keep up.

[@loumos_old]

We still had the “cool” and “geek” people dynamic in Hauptschule & Realschule at the beginning. But thru the years it mixed somehow. Don’t know how it is know. This was 15 years ago 😅

[@ismirdochegal4804]

Raising your hand in class is seen as more demanding "Take me, take me!", whereas raising a finger is more humble "I know the answer / have a question / have some thought about the topic, but only speak when allowed to."

[@mattiny]

Good summary of our school education system. One thing to mention: You dont really have to choose your way of schooling when you're nine years old. There are a lot of comprehensive school which include all paths. Additionally you can change your path whenever you want. Lets say you choose "Realschule" and completed 10th grade. If your marks are good and you decide to go on, you can go to a Gymnasium for another 3 years to get the Abitur.

[@torinarg1971]

Not sure where the expression came from - but the expression may be a part of it - in the US you say "raise your hand" - in German the word is "aufzeigen" which would translate to "point up", and the index finger is the one you use in pointing... At least, from primary school in Germany, I don't remember ever specifically being told "only point up one finger". Though, keeping it that way might have the advantage to draw attention: picture seeing a person some 30 m away from you, if they have a hand up, you might think they're waving at someone; if they point up that's more drawing attention. If someone knows the history of "aufzeigen", that might be helpful here.

[@taiwanreporter]

30 m? You had really huge classrooms.

[@dunjameister1234]

1. You have a lot of options to still go to University in Germany after finishing Hauptschule or Realschule. So you don't really make a final decision about the kids future by choosing a school after 4. grade... 2. German "Abitur" is considered to be of a much higher eduacational value than the american High school graduation. I have heard that the german Abitur is more like an american Bachelor degree, so maybe that explains why it only takes you three years to reach a german Bachelor. My son is in University studying IT sciences, and he has to take one "Nebenfach" now in his 2. year, he could choose it, but as far as I know, there were restricitons, and definitely nothing like P.E. or Arts classes...

[@petermueller9325]

Same here in Switzerland. After 12 years you get the swiss "Matura" (comparable to "Abitur") I truly think the level of education is higher wrt highschool. Until "Matura" for e.g.: I teach my field "Physics" at "college physics" level for off topic pupils. For the ones taking a major in Physics/Maths I teach on a level "Physics for scientists and engineers" if you the the corresponding books from Giancioli as a reference. Therefore it is quite clear (besides that it is not required to take many non major topics) that at university level, the BA is reached after 3 years.

[@jukori]

lol to be well-rounded I went to school. To get specific knowledge of a subject of my interest I went to university. There are things called 'Nebenfächer' (side subjects) that have a little less to do with your main subject. For example, your main subject is psychology so you have to take ONE class in either economics, sports, or psychiatry (8 cp)... but this depends greatly on what subject you're studying...in the US you need 120 credits to graduate with a bachelor's degree... in Germany you need like 180 credits

[@charlie_lotta5365]

As a German, I can say, if you‘re on a Realschule or a Hauptschule, and you finished 9th (and/or) 10th grade, you can always go to a gymnasium afterwards to graduate and then go to university.

[@chibiarchervr]

German here. I could have went to Gymnasium after 4th grade. But I chose the Realschule. After I graduated from 10th grade I went to Gymnasium and afterwards I went to University. There are many times you can switch between Hauptschule, and Realschule. We also had some kids comming back from Gymnasium. Kids don't have to decide their future in 4th grade. It just helps them to get an early goal in live

[@socke076]

in Germany you also have the option of gettige abitur(basic education degree of Gymnasium) after realschule when you go to a school for 2 more years and you can also get the basic education degree of realschule for 1 extra year of school. so no you dont have to plan your hole life at 9 years old. Any you also have the option to change the type of school after picking one in 4th grade. When you have good grades you can go to a higher education school like from Realschule to Gymnasium. And if you have for example bad grades or just dont think the type of school fits for you, you can go to a lower education school like form Gymnasium to Realschule. I hope this made sense to you Ik my english isnt the best

[@alaskha]

You have to consider that, if the kid is doing very well in the hauptschule or very bad in the gymnasium, they can also switch schools depending on their performance. Or after hauptschule you still have the chance to do a realschule graduation or Abitur.

[@JustXX]

I grew up in the GDR. It wasn't possible for me to graduate from high school there. But I received technical training: I went to vocational school every third week, alternating with two weeks of work. For three years. After that, I worked as a specialist in this profession for a long time. Since Germany was now reunited, I was able to study. Because I had the professional training and experience in the job. I received my bachelor's degree with honors. Studying is for free. This makes it possible for even people with little money to use their potential. and that benefits everyone.

[@leahellwig3935]

I'm Bavarian and went to Gymnasium after 4th grade. Here, the separation is quite strict. You receive an additional school report for the Übertritt. Depending on your grade average the following school is advised. If your parents still wanna send you to Gymnasium there is the possibility of have "trial out lessons". Here there are also many parents sending their kids to Realschule although the grades were good enough for Gymnasium, thinking it might be easier. In 11th grade I spent a high school year in Indiana and I have to say that the curriculum was very interesting as there are so many possibilities to choose from and I don't think the lessons were too easy or boring, just the tests were. In some subjects I had problems because my vocabulary wasn't good enough but still it is possible to receive good grades. I think at Gymnasium you better learn how to study, memorize and transfer problems in order to solve them. After returning I could continue with 12th grade, Abitur after 13th grade as 11th grade was a time to sum up a little bit. Just in Maths there were topics missing I had to catch up on my own. Kindergarten not free here!

[@GreenFashion-je2rt]

In germany where I am from we dont take test to decide to which school we go. We just get recomendations and then you can choose yourself. Me as an example got Realschule recomendation but I went to Gymnasium instead. Eventhough Gymnasium is harder then Realschule I can get along pretty well. Also at a Gymnasium you need to go till grade 10 and after that you can choose if you want to move on with school or not. If you dont want to move on you get a Realschulabschluss but if you do move on you get a Gymnasium Abschluss.

[@TheSarakatus]

Concerning the index finger…I can’t remember if it was told to us in school not to use all fingers BUT during my time in the German forces, first thing they told us, was not only to not signal with the full hand, but only to signal with our left hand, to avoid said forbidden greet.

[@monikadeinbeck4760]

In Germany you have multiple ways to change from one path to another. My sister started at Gymnasium, but couldn't cope with the speed, so she changed to Realschule. After finishing, she made an apparenticeship at a bank and then got a job at a bank. But now she realized that she wanted to go to university, so she took evening school parallel to work and made Abitur (the Gymnasium degree you need for university). Then she studied theology and became a pastoral associate in a small town, after some years director of faith formation in a larger city. Now she is head of a catholic retreat house.

[@MichaelBurggraf-gm8vl]

Hi Donnie, things have changed quite a bit since I went to school and later to university. I actually had to do an exam in 4rth grade which was supposed to determine the type of school where I'd continue my education. But even then - 1970ies - I could switch from Realschule to Gymnasium repeating 5th class volutarily to catch up with maths. BTW, you've left out another type of school eligible after Grundschule: Gesamtschule where each subject is offered in several different courses of different degree of intensity/difficulty. The original idea of Gymnasium was to prepare pupils for continuing their education on an academic institution, eg university or a polytechnical school. However pupils can get a certificate after 5 or 6 years on Gymnasium too which isn't equivalent to an Abitur certificate however. The German bachelor and master degrees are harmonized with a european scheme of academic education. It was originally supposed to facilitate moving to another academic institution with getting your accomplished courses recognized in a standardized way. Yet, I don't know how well that's actually working. I've heard of people having problems at changing between universities in Germany already. Before that scheme of bachelor and master degrees was introduced German academic institutions didn't provide bachelor degrees. The lowest academic degrees were either master or diploma, and the standard set of courses plus final paper required 5 years attendance at an academic institution. In the 1980ies graduates from Germany often experienced difficulties in getting their academic education recognized abroad. At first several German institutions, eg. embassies, industrial and administrative interest groups tried to advertise for German degrees. But then they decided to tackle the issue on a european level leading to the present degrees of bachelor and master - which are recognized all over the EU (theoretically at least). Another goal was allowing students to receive a certificate of academic education sooner than the old system allowed. Hence a bachelor is supposed to be finished after 6 semesters, ie 3 years. A master should be doable in 4 semesters / 2 years. In contrast to the US system subject matter seems to be focussed more on the main subject of study. A student could get additional credits for a language learned but I doubt that some sports activity would create additional points for a bachelor in say electrical engineering. Particularly during the 1990ies most German business associations were putting some presure on politicians to work towards lowering the average age of entering professional life for academics. Hence there's a some reservation about activities being recognized which aren't obviously related to a subject studied.

[@quapix]

German here, I am on Gymnasium and in 9th grade. When I was about to change schools after Grundschule, there was a parents conference to talk about what would be recomended for me. I did not take a test, rather my teachers take notice of the students grades and their behavior, making assumptions, if the kid had the potential to go to Haupt, Real or Gymnasium, they told me a was 70% Gym and asked if I though I could manage, letting me and my parents decide whats best for me. Another thing with the test, wich might still be a thing somewhere else, is that the type of school you get to go to is not permanent ( as far as I know, since I am at a Gesamtschule, where all types are being taugh), you can have the opportunity to change it when youre doing very well or bad in most or all subjects, meaning you would get to go higher or lower in each case. Now you might think that you would only be able to change the type of school level youre on but its still possible to stay back or skip a grade, here I only have the experience of my classmates being good enough and, since they are already on Gymnasium, being able to skip a grade to get to their own level ( they refused though), and then you can stay back a grade to repeat it, if you chose so, or missed too many days, either if you were excuse for those days or not, since you simply missed too much material. I hope the summary of my experience helped :)

[@Krma-fp6ff]

There is also a Gesamtschule where you can get Education from Hauptschule Class 9-10, Realschule Class 10 and u can make Abitur and start go to University after

[@herb6677]

The core curriculum is probably more or less done already at the gymnasium. And even if you start with Mittelschule it is not said, that you could not upgrade to another school when the pupil is doing well. At least that is the case in Austria.

[@mirascraftycorner]

They‘re not taking an exam that solely determines which school they go to. They get a grade report about all subjects covering 6 months of exams and class participation and they have already gotten 3 previous reports before that, so parents and kids get an idea early on how they‘re performing and whether they need to improve

[@supernova19805]

By the time you finish Gymnasium in Germany, you've taken most of the b.s./pre-requisite classes, they make you take in a U.S. college, the first 2 years. It's basically the equivalent of an Associate degree, when you get your Abitur. This allows them to go right into their chosen majors in college/university.

[@FoldyMoldy]

In Berlin you attend Grundschule from 1st to 6th grade. And here, we didn't have to take a test, it was a "Empfehlung " a recommendation. Student could still apply to Gymnasium with a Haupt or Real Empfehlung. At 10th grade, there is "MSA" test now "mittlerer Schulabschluss" . It didn't existiert when I was in 10th grade though

[@MasumiSeike]

For raising hands, what I found is that a full hand is more common with the younger kids, more often kindergarten and 1st class still. I don't really recall much of my first class as it was a mess, but I did it because I saw older kids do it... I think

[@schizlmanizl]

It's really not that hard to go to university, even if you choose the "Hauptschule" path. You can redo the required "Abitur" as an evening course. While it was not without effort for me to do it next to my trade school, it was definitely doable :)

[@nessu1385]

definitly. one of my professors literaly went to the Hauptschule and now has a phd and teaches at the university

[@HopeeInk]

Oh congrats on that, I heard that Abendschule is a nightmare, because the requirements are way harder than on normal Gesamtschulen for example. & Wenn ich an mein Gymnasium denke, die haben echt jeden Idioten das Abi hinterhergeworfen.

[@corina4546]

The German Abi or Fachabi cover the general classes/core classes. That’s why you don’t have to take those at the University. That’s also the reason why a high school diploma is not viewed as “Hochschulzugangsberechtigung” means you have to take a bunch of classes before being accepted at a German University.

[@uliwehner]

i did not take ANY classes in University that were not directly related to my elected major. Then again, i graduated Gymnasium in 85. Things may have changed? Either way, here in the US you learn how to write an essay, etc. stuff we learned in gymnasium. Math remedial in mechanical engineering was "reviewing" trigonometry, calculus, etc. we already learned in Gymnasium. 2 months in they felt that was enough and started "new material". i had learned both by 10th grade. ultimately i changed majors to languages, which suited me much better. so for me Abitur was definitely meant "hochschulzugangsberechtigung". Abitur in Bayern, University in Baden-Wuerttemberg

[@samyboy8000]

Where I live (north-rhine-westphalia) You don‘t take an exam at the end of the Grundschule, but your further school carreer is determined by your grades from the last year. sorry for my bad english

[@a.w.3542]

9:01 when you're in Mittelschule ( Hauptschule) and have very good grades you can always switch to Realschule and when you also have good grades there you can switch to Gymnasium und get Abitur to study at the University. You can also get Fachabitur at the Foss after realschule with which you can study at "Hochschulen" or continue studying to get your Abitur. (simplified, there are many possible ways to get abitur )

[@IliusBellatius]

in my experience(in germany) sertain teachers dont want to be constantly interrupted by studends asking if they were allowed to use the toilette and thus implemented that if a studed raises all 5 fingers they want to use the toilette and if its only one finger then they want to actually answer the question ( that was particullary prominent in the earlyer years) while as a studend sometimes you would raise your hole hand because you really wanted to show that you know the correct answer or something like that

[@hnihrt3870]

I´m from Germany and I just finished 12th grade and got my "Abitur". And I think a big part you forgot about is the possibility of switching schools in germany. You can go from the "Gymnasium" to "Realschule" for example or the other way arround, depending on your marks. There is also a "Fachhochschule" to get a "Fachabitur" after graduating from "Realschule". For me the german school system works quite well.

[@chinesischesser]

Bar of soap is the goat. Eco-friendly without unnecessary plastic packaging and healthier as lesser number of ingredients. Shower gel is just soapy water with lots of preservatives

[@yun6430]

There is also a Gesamtschule where it is Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium together. Depending how good the kid is it can get one of these.

[@mariusd.396]

My quick theory for german kids rising the index finger is that raising your hand can be translated to "melden" or "aufzeigen". "melden" can also be translated as reporting and does not necessarily mean you have to raise your hand (context). "aufzeigen" meanwhile literally means to point up and in german the index finger is even called the pointing finger.

[@magnusschroth5565]

In Germany most of the students going to university finished Gymnasium, where they got a lot of knowledge about different subiects like politics, History, at least 2 languages, science, Art, music and so on, which is why they can focus in university on the things related to their real goals and dont need to do other stuff.

[@dirkgaffron5456]

In German Kindergarten there is the last year kind of equal to your kindergarten. And if you finish the Hauptschule you can also decide to switch to a higher school if you are good enough. At university we are focused on learning focused to the subject we choose. The more general education is already done at the Gymnasium

[@1985weirdo1985]

I am a teacher in Germany. I‘ve been to Realschule, then went to Gymnasium, did my Abitur and studied to be an art- and English-teacher. At uni you can visit as many Seminare and Vorlesungen as you like - but you only get credit points for what brings you further along the way to your degree. So you’re totally free in what you do, as in Germany you don’t have to pay horrendously high fees for studying at Uni. Concerning the school system: The Dreigliedriges Schulsystem is kind of really old. Lots of states have Oberschule (Haupt- and Realschule mixed) and Gesamtschule (all three kinds of schools mixed) now instead of Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium. :)

[@JED-v8q]

To make it more complicated, every state has a different system. For example in Berlin and Brandenburg elementary school goes to grade 6. You can still chage schools later and there a "Gesamtschulen", where you can do all three schools...

[@ricardogarcia7367]

I don't know how it was in Germany before, but in Europe, everything got standardized with the "Bologna Process" where they divided the university studies into 3 cycles: -1st cycle 180-240 ECTS - Bachelor's degree -2nd cycle 60-120 ECTS - Master's degree -3rd cycle no concrete ECTS range - Doctoral degree The idea was to standardize all European university degrees to be easily recognized in other countries. This was implemented in 2005. Before there was a range of 3, 4 or 5 years for the first cycle, depending on the country or the major the person would be studying. You can find more information here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process

[@HS-wp5vb]

When I went to school, I can't reacall anyone teaching us how to raise the hand. But we never used the full hand. Funnily, the German translation for "raise your hand" is "aufzeigen", i.e. "point out". That lends itself more to using the index finger.

[@ThirtyTimesK]

Im bremen, most of the secondary schools are now Gesamtschulen (General Schools). So the no matter what level you where on in primary school, you go to the same secondary school as all other kids. And at the Gesamtschule, you can leave after 9th grade and get a Hauptschulabschluss. If you go on to grade 10 you have to take the Zentrale Abschlussprüfung (Common Final Exam). Based on your score you can get 3 different grades: The Hauptschulabschluss (If you fail) The MSA/Realschulabschluss or the MSA/GyO. And only if you get the last one are you allowed to proceed to the Oberstufe (High School) where you can get your Abitur (High School Degree) Edit: The subjects are split between Grundkurs (Base Course) and Erweiterungskurs (Advanced course) and what course you get into is based on your skill level and personal preference. You need at least 3 Advanced courses to be able to get one of the higher degrees

[@lyre5957]

In Germany you should not forget that if you first go to "Hauptschule" that does not mean you cang go to uni. If you Finish Hauptschule you can go to Realschule und if you do well there you can go to the Gymnasium to do your Abitur. It will contain repetition of grades but it is possible. Secondly Some Fields of work have a kind of degree if you finish it which is to certain kind of unis like a Abitur so you can attend these specific unis

[@deregorn1]

You dont have core classes in university. It's all based on your chosen major. But if you like you always can choose different courses if you feel like it. In these courses, you don't need to do any exams or credits. It is just for fun and a more open view. You normally plan your semester yourself, so you are free to choose other stuff. But you always get a guide that will help you organize.

[@ylvie8978]

I didn't read all the comments, but there's also "Gesamtschule", where children that need a little more time to get a grip on studying can choose/earn a career path that leads to university later on than fourth grade. Also, in some Bundesländer secondary school starts after 6th grade and Gymnasium can be 12 oder 13 years depending on where they're located. If your grades are good enough you can go to Gynmasium after 10th grade of Realschule, or even after Hauptschule, it's not that your path is set in stone at 10 years old. There are also a lot of specialised secondary secondary schools that one can attend after class 10 instead of going to Gynmasium to plan a career of social/engineering etc. jobs. (Berufskolleg)

[@jayceeritter3090]

So I’m a German teenager and in my Grundschule, we did not have to take a test, our teacher just decided by our Zeugnis( this paper where all the grades for all subjects are on, basically like the report card), if we could go to gymnasium, Realschule or Hauptschule. There is also a school type named Gesamtschule, which basically is all schools combined and i think you can choose some subjects but there are some subjects which you have to learn( i don’t know much about them, that’s all I know😬😂)

[@JaysMCworld]

in university right now and I didn’t have to take any unrelated classes, there were some about more basic skills like general scientific writing and methods of research, but nothing that I didn’t also need for my subjects. there’s a lot of extracurricular offers too but they are entirely optional and not really integrated with your bachelors at all.

[@dpunktmpunkt8544]

We decided to send our kid to an "integrierte Gesamtschule", all kids learn together, but some courses e.g. mathematics are taught in different groups (already more skilled to less skilled).

[@AkuFexin]

Generally, Germany is trying to slowly close all the Hauptschulen and Realschulen. They are replaced by "Allgemeinschulen" who have grades 5-10 afterwards if your report card is good enough you can go on to the 11th and 12th grade on either the same school (but with newly mixed classes) or go to another school that'll give the gymnasium education

[@19ghost73]

Did my "Diplom-Ingenieur (FH)" in Chemical Engineering in Germany 23years ago. We had on average 32-34 academic hourse per week, and that included 2 mandatory hours in a topic NOT related to our major. Examples were: philosophy, a foreign language like French/Spanish/English for Engineers. 8 semesters = 4 years of total study time.

[@KonradZielinski]

I think the whole idea of core classes in university is pretty rare outside of the USA. Here in Australia (yes a world away from Germany or the USA) a bachelors degree is also normally 3 years. Individual degrees have graduation rules and you are required to take a certain number of subjects outside of your major but there are no core subjects that everyone must take.

[@j.a.lt.0007]

I haven't looked to see if anyone has already written the same thing as me, but German children literally do with their hand what the German word for answering in school etc says: "aufzeigen" = auf(wärts) zeigen = to point upwards

[@jessw.1285]

I know a girl who graduadet high school in Canada and have to do the last 3 years in Germany at a Gymnasium to go to a University. In University I only got subject related lessons. General knowledge stuff like politics, pedagogy, etc are teached in our "Abitur" in Germany.

[@leonie_unknown]

I didn't have to take an exam I the 4th grade. I just decided with my parents where I want to go when looking at my grades and what my teacher suggested. It's also not a big thing in the society where u go afterwards. It just makes a difference when it comes to jobs and your path after school

[@Vanessa-b8k]

In Rheinland-Pfalz there isn’t a Hauptschule anymore. But in the Realschule-Plus you can attend 5th- 10th grade, in the Gesamtschule you can attend 5th-13th grade but it doesn’t concern as much pressure as a Gymnasium. In the Gesamtschule it is more likely for students to complete school in the 9th or 10th grade. Gymnasium is the hardest school where you can attend 5th- 13th grade. There are also different kinds of Gymnasiums, there is the normal Gymnasium where you attend 5th-13th grade and then there is the G8 where you do the same education as an normal Gymnasium but faster, from 5th-12th grade. But there are also Gymnasien where there is one class that does the same as an G8 but all other classes are a normal Gymnasium. Also you don’t have to pay for school and university in Germany unless it’s a private school. And it’s not allowed to be homeschooled in Germany.

[@anastylos2812]

There are many ways to university. You can go to Hauptschule then Realschule then Gymnasium. Or you can finish an Apprenticeship and can become a Meister, a master craftman. Then you can go to university as well. You can even have Gymnasium in the evening after your regular work. And beside the University we also have a Hochschule, where you also get a bachelors degree, but spend half the time at a company, similar to an apprenticeship. So no matter what degree you have, there is never a dead end and you can continue to a higher degree.

[@larnregis]

I like the difference of "public viewing" In Germany it describes an event (mostly sports) that is shown in public on a big screen. In English, well, a corpse that is laid out for the public.

[@mille_fiori]

What was not said: There are a number of opportunities to attend secondary schools after "Hauptschule" or "Realschule", which include the possibility of attending a higher school leaving certificate. It is not the end of schooling. Even a Hauptschule pupil can go to university if they attend another school after the nine years.

[@WaveDaBreaker]

A, there is no exam after 4th grade and everyone can jump up from the lower tier schools to the higher tier schools and you missed out on Gesamtschulen or ISS, that completely replaced Hauptschulen

[@ingaettelt9101]

You asked the two very important questions about the German school system (wich basically hasn’t changed since the beginning of the 20th century) right at the beginning. It is classist and doesn’t offer everyone the same chance of education. It does put pressure on 4th graders because every parent hopes their child could go to Gymnasium. In some German states there is fourth school (Gesamtschule) that is more comprehensive and caters for all levels of students. Also, when students go to Gymnasium for 12 or 13 years they cover much of what you call the uni core curriculum. For example they have to do at least one foreign language, Maths, German literature, Arts… in year 12 and 13. No need to do it again at uni, where you can then focus on your major.

[@ciriousjoker]

About majors: In addition to the normal curriculum for everyone, we had to collect 16 points as part of the degree. You get 2 or 4 points depending on the subject for any given semester. You cannot repeat a subject obviously and you get graded based on project work, class discussions, an exam, a combination of them or whatever else the professor came up with. We had a long list of these subjects and had to pick them at the start of the last two semesters. 8 points were related to the stuff relevant to the degree, but up to 8 could be chosen from a different list that wasn't closely related. Aside from that, there were no irrelevant subjects like sports, history or other stuff. For context: I got a bachelor's in media sciences.

[@SirVivel]

One finger raise to full hand raise: Students learn to use only the index finger at the beginning and are eager to do right by their teacher. Later on things get more relaxed in class. You don't sit upright all the time, but slouch more into your chair, rest your head on your wrist etc... or raise the full hand instead of only one finger. In short: The older the students get, the more relaxed this turns out. Still raising the index in later stages of education, trade school, university, Berufsschule gets you the nickname of "Streber", someone going above and beyond and might make you a target for mobbing/ bullying. I learned both and I can tell that teachers are grateful if you add to their lectures, they don't mind how you raise your hand... unless it's in a 45 degree angle.

[@Max-oz4wp]

There are also „Gesamtschulen“ in Germany There you can go at the 9th grade or finish your abitur if your grades are good enough

[@ramona146]

The kids still have the chance to switch between different schools. If your kid for example goes to a Hauptschule (school for less skilled childern) they have the possibility to go to the Realschule if they have good grades at the end. And if they are good at Realschule too, they can go to Gymnasium to try to get their A-levels

[@denisenova7494]

They got rid of the divided three school system (Haupt - Real - Gymnasium) here in Hamburg. We only have two schools: 1.Stadtteilschule which is like a Gesamtschule. Everybody can go there and leave after 9 years or 10 years or 13 years. You have your first school degree after 9 years (which is like Haupt) or your middle school degree after 10 years (like Realschule) or you can make your Abitur after 13 years there. But we still have the Gymnasium where you can make your Abitur after only 12 years. It's a bit faster with a bit more pressure and prepares you for university. But you can make the same Abitur at the Stadtteilschule after 13 years with a bit less pressure. You can also switch from Gymnasium to Stadtteilschule if you figured out that you need a year longer.

[@jensstolpmann7275]

There is no exam after "Grundschule" (elementary school). You get an recommendation for the next school, be it "Hauptschule", "Realschule" or "Gymnasium". It's up to the parents to which school they send their kid. But if you have a recommendation for "Hauptschule" and send your kid to the "Gymnasium", you shouldn't be too surprised, if your kid gets bad grades.

[@xxVionyxx]

There is no big test in German 4th grade to determine which school you go to. The teachers combine their observations of the student and their grades from all of fourth year and make a recommendation where parents should send their child, but it's still up to the student and their parents. But also: If the child doesn't suit the school they chose they can still change the schools. If they can't follow the speed of Gymnasium lessons they fall back on Realschule. If someone isn't challenged by Hauptschule they can go "up" a schooltype.

[@rockaddicthamburg8599]

After the 4th grade, there is always a chance, to switch lanes, for the better or for the worse. Even after Hauptschule, or Realschule, you can still get your qualification for University. On German universities the basic curriculum is far less extensive, because most of it will be taught during the Oberstufe (Grades 11-13) on the way to Abitur. So after 13 years of school, with your Abitur, you have around one years worth more of education, than after finishing high school.

[@simplyme5324]

I want to mention that there are several paths in Germany. You can change to Gymnasium after 6th grade (changing after 4th grade is for more advanced students). Personally I was supposed to go to a private English speaking Gymnasium after 4th grade but the school shut down and so I ended up doing 5th and 6th grade at a normal school and then changing after 6th grade. Secondly there are Gesamtschulen which offer all three degrees (Hauptschulabschluss, Realschulabschluss, Abitur) which is the kind of school my dad attended. Only the Abitur allows you to attend university/Fachhochschule (like normal universities vs universities of applied sciences) to study ANY subject. But if you do an apprenticeship which in Germany is paid for by the employer - you get paid for attending normal school and trade school at once and as you work for an employer you also get money instead of paying as an apprentice. Normally apprenticeships are not super well paid (around 600$ per month - approximating 1 Euro = 1$) but some are paid much better - IT apprenticeships for example. After having successfully completed your apprenticeship after 3 years and worked in your job for some years you can then study again - but only the subject you are trained for - if you failed your Abitur. Let's say you only got a Hauptschulabschluss - the lowest degree - which was formerly the most common degree in the generation of my grandfather. Maybe during school you lived with crap parents or suffered from bad mental health. You then do an IT apprenticeship which pays you around 1000-1400$ per month - enough to live in a very tiny appartment and do your work. You then are a trained system administrator earning around 30-50k per year. You maybe work for a bigger German company or later went into IT consulting. Then you can study at a Fachhochschule or university - the subject you are trained in. If you have some IT related apprenticeship that would allow you to study computer science - either parallel to your job or you take the three years off. You can attend university for no costs at all (ok, around 300$ for 6 months which includes free public transport, so I say no cost at all), finish your bachelors degree in computer science. Having finished that you can even do a normal academic career. A good friend of mine had mental health issues during her school years and only got the Realschulabschluss. So she did an apprenticeship as programmer or sys admin (don't remember which one), got into IT consulting - which pays okayish in Germany - around 50-60k per year which is a good to high salary in Germany. She now studies computer science parallel to the job, paid for by her employer. If she doesn't finish she only has to pay back the money for that private university to her employer and that's it. She can work anywhere in IT, got several certificates that would allow her to make a 6 figure salary or more in the US but she prefers to stay in Germany. My grandma gave birth without being married (let's just say her fiancé was crap) and did an apprenticeship. She later married my grandpa who allowed her to do her Abitur and study. She became a school teacher at the village my mother grew up in. 3 sisters, 2 of which got pregnant out of wedlock. One was pushed out of school (1948) and was forced to marry the father and become a housewife which she hated. She had 2 abortions and gave birth to 3 children while she hated children. But - later she became the mayor of the local village for the Christian conservative party and was mayor for quite a long time. Her sister (my grandma) was as mentioned the school teacher. My out of wedlock born mom had one of the best law degrees of her year and worked for the state. A single mother, left by her cheating husband but with a guaranteed job from the state. My dad had issues with school and got a bad Abitur and a bad degree in economics. But he also did an apprenticeship for fixing cars and became a great consultant for car selling companies. His mother was a housewife who got an apprenticeship and worked from time to time. His father was expulged from his hometown in Poland and had to flee with the entire family. They only had their clothes on after the end of the war. He then went to school and somehow got a university degree in high frequency electronics and worked for Telefunken (then one of the biggest German tech giants). Of all family members in the grandparents only one had a normal school to university to build your own family career and that was my grandfather who fled from Poland. I write this to give some examples how people can always improve their education and career even in the German system. Yes, it takes some efforts but it has always been possible.

[@andrefischer5025]

The “core curriculum” stuff is thought at school!

[@lalawoman555]

I didn't look it up but from your video it seems like the core curriculum is part of the german Abitur (high school degree). History, politics, analysis of texts, discussions about political processes etc are part of almost every subject. When you start university everyone kind of assumes that you have that broad general knowledge.

[@marius4729]

Well. You can attend University even with „only“ graduation of the Realschule and Hauptschule. It’s called Fachoberschule. There you can attend school further for 3-4 years and take your Abitur exam. After that you can attend University. I hope I didn’t write something wrong and it helps you.

[@MaddogMaddu]

At TS 10:00, we have to add, that if you are in the Realschule or Hauptschule and you are better than they thought, they can still put you into a higher school system in grade 7 or 8, so you are not stuck with a test you made when you where 9 or 10. Oh, you can also be downgraded aswell.

[@arkos02]

I‘m studying in Germany right now and I’ll also be done in 3 years. I didn’t have to take a single class which wasn’t directly connected to the subject I’m getting my bachelors in So I guess you‘re right and our colleges just focus more on what we actually decided to study

[@neelek204]

Hi, german here! The hand raising thing is just social convention, nobody regulates it, most people use the finger method, some people (occasionally those who want to seem cool and relaxed) use the whole hand, it´s not a big thing. The sorting into different school systems is a recommendation, parents and students get to decide which school you take and if the load is too light/heavy you can always transfer later. But yes, generally the school systems do teach at different speeds. The "well rounded" stuff from american colleges is normally put into the last 2-3 years of Gymnasium. At University we generally only study our core subjects. Some unis tend to include GSs (General Studies) into their requirements which are electives that are either related to your field of study or unrelated to it, like languages, but those are usually only two courses in three years. Hope that helps!

[@svoo3899]

Me as a geman in my 20s , I went through 10 years of Realschule and then continued with 3 years of Gymnasium to get my Abitur. Now I'm doing some volunteer social years (FSJ / FÖJ ) to get an opinion on different working fields.

[@sarahlanger2605]

So I studied Physics in Vienna, but I think the curriculum is similar in Germany: All my classes were physics classes, except for math classes which are vital for physics. There are some "Wahlfächer", meaning I head three courses from another department of my choosing, and one could do something wildly different, but also, like, astronomy or something. Generally, in Austria, we expecot a well rounded education after finishing school in 12th grade and Uni is were you finally get to specialize according to your interests.

[@jayp14478]

The best thing in the German school system is, that everybody has the possibility to do the Abitur, even when you started on Hauptschule. You can do your Realschulabschluss while doing an apprenticeship and afterwards you can stay at the Berufsschule and do your (Fach-)Abitur and go to University. BTW you have to go to school for 12 years. E.g. 9 years Hauptschule and 3 years apprenticeship equals 12 years of going to school. Also doing an apprenticeship is totally normal even for students done the Abitur. Having the Abitur just qualifies you to go to university, also there are even more options. The school system might not be easy, but is well thought out.

[@fenjamaj6425]

There are also "Gesamtschulen" where everyone (Hauptschul- bis Gymnasial-Emfehlung) can go and so there is no pre seperation. Depending on your grades, you can then take the appropriate degree there. I went to this kind of school and there we were split into A (higher educational) and B (lower educational) classes, depending on your grades in the specific subject. Perhaps this is a good compromise for your child's educational plans and worth considering?

[@jkosch]

In some states/Bundesländer (Berlin and Brandenburg) Elementary school is typically from 1st to 6th grade. Though it is possible to switch to a secondary school after 4th grade with a few 5th and 6th grade classes also established in some schools.

[@powerzwerg5566]

In North-Rhine-Westfalia there is no Hauptschule any more. If you're not sure of the trajectory there is the option of the Gesamtschule. I heard from three different parties with experience in the both school systems that they compared High school to an "average" (not specialised) Realschule...

[@heartsofiron4ever]

As a German: Difference 1: It's just instinct Difference 2: In most states including my state of Hessen, there is no exam at the end of 4th grade, rather, the teacher gives a recommendation on which tier of secondary school your child should visit. It some states, it's binding. Many kids in Hauptschule decide to get a Qualifiziertesabschluss, which basically adds another year, or visit Realschule for the 10th, and then Gymnasium, Many Realschule kids also choose to go up to Gymnasium after the 10th. If your grades are good enough off course, but generally they are

[@spacebeerecords5039]

I'm German and I teach English and music. Regarding the school system: that's very interesting, because it is extremely diverse and dependent on where you live in Germany. My kids go to school in Lower-Saxony, I teach in Bremen. Here in northern Germany, schools are less restrictive than in southern Germany. I have never heard of kids taking exams at the end of grade 4 here, but I know that this is the case at least in some places in Bavaria. Here, the teachers know the kids very well, because in elementary school, the "class teacher" (like a tutor) teaches almost all the subjects and they base their decision on social and cognitive abilities. The teachers observe the kids for 4 years, so their advice is not only based on grades, but they take a lot more than that into consideration. Furthermore, here in lower-saxony (at least where I live), the teachers do not (!) decide which school type the kids attend after Elementary school. They just give a recommendation and the parents decide along with the kid. Usually, parents have quite a range of opportunities which school to chose, as there are a lot of schools that combine all three high-school diplomas (as for instance at the Integrierte Gesamtschule, Kooperative Gesamtschule or Oberschule). Here, the kids work on different educational levels within the same group. Later, subjects like German, English and Math are split into courses (E for erweitert = advanced or G for grundlegend = basic), while the kids still maintain in their group (consisting of 20-25 kids) for the other subjects. If you perform well in a G-course you can move up into the E-course. If you don't perform well in the E-course, you can go back to the G-course. On the way, kids can gain their various degrees - Hauptschulabschluss (usually required for jobs in crafts and industry) after grade 9 or 10 (depending on the state), Realschulabschluss (usually required for commerce and office work) after grade 10, Fachabitur (after grade 11 or 12, depending on the state, required for technical colleges and some specific majors) or Abitur (after grade 12 or 13, required for University). The amount of E-courses and your grade point average tells you which high-school diploma you're aiming for. If you start a vocational training after grade 9 or 10, you'll still go to school (= Berufsschule), that alternates with your vocational training. I still think that the system needs A LOT of improvement, a lot of schools (especially the Gymnasium) still work the way they used to work 30, 40, 50 years ago, but at the same time, a lot has changed within the last two decades. So even though the Gymnasium still tends to be very unfair in terms of educational opportunities and equal opportunities for people with different social status, I'm at least a bit optimistic. As far as the Bachelor degree is concerned: yes, in the US it takes a year longer, which is probably due to the General Education courses you have to sign up for in the US. In Germany, these G.E. parts are more or less part of the Abitur. The Abitur was originally accomplished after 13 years of school (referred to as G9 = 9 years of Gymnasium), whereas in the US you gain your high-school-diploma after 12 years of school. Some states in Germany have tried out the 12-year-system (referred to as G8 = 8 years of Gymnasium), which has not really worked out, since they haven't lowered the workload and kids tended to burn out. So most of schools went back to G9. When I went to school, G9 was still the usual case. So when I went to college in Boston, I was able to transfer a big number of credits from my final year of school for the General Education classes. I only stayed there for one year - but if I had intended to finish my degree, I would have earned the BA after three years, too, just because of the transferred credits I brought from my final year at the Gymnasium. I guess another reason is that after the Bologna process, Germany introduced BAs and MAs as opposed to their former degrees (Diplom, Magister, Staatsexamen). The standard period of study for a Diplom was like 4 years - but it's more "valuable" than a BA, so I guess that's another reason why the BA only takes 3 years in Germany.

[@GretaHoffmann-nr6ce]

German here, I have never heard of a test that decides which type of school you’ll go to. In my case ( and I think everyone else I know) my parents had a conversation with my main teacher. The teacher then explains why the child should or shouldn’t go to a Gymnasium. But maybe that’s a local thing, I’m from Hessen so…

[@SoulofBramble]

So in my school we raise one finger if we want to anser a question, two if we have a question and all fingers if we need to go to the toilett

[@kamkbrook334]

You can make your Realschulabschluss in the Hauptschule and if you have something called Qualifikationsvermerk you can do Abitur and go to a university or you can make a vocational training work a few years and then study something Job specific

[@winonalovers]

Well, its not exactly true that in Germany kids in 4th grade decide by a test if they are going to university in the future - Hauptschule, Realschule and Gymnasium are all in the same school building, and if youve got good grades in Haupschule you can switch to Realschule, for example. But it can also be the other way around: If youre grades in Gymnasium are too bad to make it, you will have to switch to Realschule and so on...