Getting A Good Jazz Drum Set Sound

In this video I talk about how to get a good Jazz drum sound out of an inexpensive drum set with a very small 16x16" bass drum.
I talk about tuning, snare and cymbal matching as well as some recording advice.
I also address several questions I received about this kit following the last batch of videos I posted using it, particularly about the 16" bass drum.
The kit I am using is a Gretsch Catalina Elite set from the early 1990's. I use this as my portable practice kit as well as a small gigging kit.
The sizes are:
16" BD, 12" and 14" toms and a Slingerland Gene Krupa 1960's Sound King COB 5"x14" snare..
The cymbals are all old K Zildjian from the 1940's through 1960's except for a 24" Masterwork Thalles series China/Swish.
I am using 2 Sennheiser MKH 80 microphones for overheads and a AKG D112 on the Bass Drum

[@PL-oc7vn]

Haha, always that humble 'hi, I'm Rick Dior'. As if he didn't just lay down a masterpiece of a solo 😆

[@mgdrumsnz]

This is some of the deepest cut Jazz drummer content on KZbin. Thank you my bro! You're an absolute magician!

[@JK4ManC]

Fabulous video and very very informative. Just starting the journey so this is all gold. Many thanks.

[@CounterRhythms]

I will refer anyone who thinks Catalinas are junk to this video. Amazing as always!

[@pawelmorrison]

Amen to that "notching out" sounds in the control room / mix. In my last mixing session the engineer totally ruined my drum sound. He's obviously not a drummer, and it's hard to win an argument where you're the only one that understands your point...

[@momentofilms1503]

Your comment about making the drums sound like a complete kit when recording is so important plus allowing the natural ring, buzz and hum to remain and not be cleaned up excessively. I fear many younger engineers don’t understand this.

[@whatspadethinks]

Excellent video Rick. Man, those old K's are unbelievable... there's a phenomenon that some acoustic guitar builders believe (Martin, etc.) that eventually the woods of the guitar "learn" to be a guitar as they age, meaning as the wood dries and glue sets and the instrument adapts and settles to the vibrations of the guitar. I feel that cymbals go through a similar process. After years of vibrating, with the atoms slowly setting into their permanent state, the cymbals take on this dark, enveloping sound that has a beautiful dynamic range. Those K's are what cymbals are supposed to sound like.

[@LordOfTheThreeWorlds]

1000% agree on the notching - a jazz artist needs a jazz or classical engineer.

[@tomtomboy6471]

Rick is that good.....he could show BUDDY a thing or two or few. RICK DIOR IS THE RHYTHM GURU!

[@kevinmorrell-cm7fe]

Rick your absolutely correct in not allowing engineers to overproduce or change isolate sound on each drum. I think buddy would agree you don't tell the drummer how it's going to sound drummers are very capable at delivering their own brand of sound. Love the raw live sound when playing out.

[@thelowertownsound]

Great video! As an amateur recording engineer i'd love to see a video about your jazz recording process. Particularly if you choose mic's and position based on the type or size of kit, tuning, etc. I'm also interested in the idea of recording for a vintage vs. modern jazz vibe. Thanks for your video's Rick. Absolutely priceless for jazz drummers and engineers.

[@Ranger1216]

Very tonalized toms, superior- don’t know the price but the sound is there. Looks Gretsch- even entry levels have the sound. Rick of course is such a well rounded percussionist. Motivating on many levels. Thanks

[@jerrytanenbaum2374]

Great playing. Really great!

[@JMcNultyDrums]

What an incredible wealth of information you have to share. This channel is a treasure. Thank you.

[@SightNSoundBand]

Great sounding drums...excellent playing as well...

[@tA_aT287]

absolute beautiful sounding kit. Amazing playing.

[@brent3760]

Awesome video Rick! I will say, that you are 100% right about that snare blending in very well with those cymbals!

[@nomeansno2335]

Yes but you can`t get it for 300

[@rickdior]

You can buy the Gretsch Catilina snares for well under $200 pretty much all of the time on Reverb and Ebay.

[@mide8845]

Absolutely insane playing

[@billwhitlatch961]

After this video I bought a Sound King. Loved the video. Stumptown Drums

[@takomuronozaki762]

Thank you, for great advise and hints!

[@jerrytanenbaum2374]

Great playing Really great

[@coopercooper8406]

Wow. That was some great music, as well as fantastic drumming.

[@Joethedrummer]

Fab. Wonderful video. Thanks.

[@Millsmillsmills]

Fascinating video thank you!

[@DavidMScott-cs8pp]

I’m 83 and still play in two bands and do some Jazz gigs. I’ve had a Sonor Safari kit for 10 years and it’s great and built with typical Sonor quality with superb hardware as well. But it isn’t light weight. So I have a Tama Club Jan Pancake kit with an 18in kick and 10 and 13 toms. I now take on gigs. The sound is VG including the 12in snare which I swore was two small for brush work or good sound.. i’m now eating crow....In an effort to get smaller and a sound I want I’ve gone through a lot of cymbals and now settled on a 16in Bosphorus New Orleans crash which doubles as a nice darker ride with plenty of Ching. The other is a Ziljian 16 1/2 Special Edition crash which is a semi time higher than the Bosph and also doubles as a ride. On rare occasions I have to Mike the kick on both the Sonor and Tama but for most Jazz combo work it’s not necessary. In other words “ big is not necessarily better” And for any Rock drummers those are real Jazz drum breaks. Notice that they have a real musical quality that the basic Rock style break consisting of 4s on each drum played around the kit doesn’t have..just sayin’ Well done friend.

[@rickdior]

83 and still playing! You are an inspiration.

[@DavidMScott-cs8pp]

@@rickdior 👍👍👍

[@DavidMScott-cs8pp]

@@rickdior I live in the Okanagan Valley in British Columbia which is the fruit and wine capital of Canada. We have 146 estate wineries and many have music in summer. Did three gigs this year. Great venue’s And because this is a large retirement area there is a plethora of retired Pro and Semi Pro musicians and so I’m very fortunate to play with some. The city of Penticton near us has only 38,000 souls but has two quality Big Bands and hosts a classic Jazz festival every Sept that brings in top performers. Love your vids as you explain things so clearly and concisely aka .. in layman’s terms. Cheers

[@michaeljhintonpiano]

Wonderful!

[@keithoutterbridge8782]

Your drums sound great. GReat work!

[@pcgkjrn]

Excellent!

[@micharodzen361]

Amazing....beautiful...Thx

[@nicolacilli6183]

Outstandings cymbals love old Ks

[@michaelgibson5047]

I am sure I have more questions. Where to begin. Always informative videos.

[@willshaughnessy8515]

good points.. Rick...and kudos on the pic of Uncle Ed.. just was watching the Beatles " Get Back" and I really found a new appreciation for what Ringo brought to the group.. they really dont focus on the contributions of the drummer...in this case Ringo... I also heard the album of Art Blakey in his Japan concert on LP.. wow..he and kenny clarke had such distinct sounds ... I love my Gretsch RB 1959 Starlite ... these shells along with my Bovid skins and dry Instanbul Mehmet Jazz give me the sound archetypes Im looking for.. remember how Elvin said he sees colors when he plays... I see astral sounds..

[@someferge]

Awesome 👍

[@drummerboyharm3078]

I like jazz drumming. It's an art IMO. I have to practice till I weight an ounce 🤣

[@jamesconnors5653]

Understood. Listening. Thank you much.

[@tmaddrummer]

Love that China Rick!

[@13THEMAS]

Great videos and glad that you mentioned Roy Haynes' snare sound. Any tips on how to tune to get close to that sound?

[@packerdunne]

Hi Rick, it's a pleasure to watch your videos. Love the sound of your kit, and l have heard many of your recordings. I've a question in relation to your tuning. I used a 12 x 8 rack but I'm never sure of where to put it in tuning. You spoke about tuning your Snare to G and your floor tom an octave below but what's the best tuning place for the 12? If you could help me out with that please. I use a 16" Bass drum too, love the sound of it, where roughly should l put that, above or below in pitch of the floor tom? Many thanks for your advice if you have time to enlighten me. Kind regards, Tom Dunne, Ireland

[@DavidMScott-cs8pp]

When tuning drums harmonically in my experience it’s the drum not necessarily the size. On my Sonor Safari kit the best sounds for our three piece Jazz combo (keys w/vocals, Alto,Tenor and Soprano Sax and my drums) seems to be B for snare, I like a bop sound, D2 for 10in rack and C2 for floor tom. I also find that D on kick doesn’t clash with bass played on keys. On Tama Pancake I find snare at A, rack tom at E, floor tom at C and kick at D works well. The toms are open as in concert style while the 18x4 kick and 12in snare have reso heads. Or.. maybe it’s just my hearing as I do wear aids.

[@johndiraimo1444]

Fantastic video as always Rick. Would it be possible to setup one cymbal ... crash/ride that would not blend in with this setup because it was too bright or aggressive? This way we could actually hear exactly what you are referring to. I suspect cymbals that would not work are ones like the Zildjian A's or Sabian AA's or AAX's. Thank you!

[@michaelgibson5047]

Using an Iron cobra 600 pedal on a Sonor bop kit with an 18 inch bass drum. And my beater hits in the same spot. (The pedal might be a bit of overkill and using a bomber beater also.) But I just did not want to use a riser.

[@robertopistolesi2735]

Thanks for this very useful videos. I have always trouble recently with excessive snare resonance hitting the Tom. I usually use pretty high tunings on both and I would like to try avoid those crazy snare resonances. Also, could you please elaborate a bit more on your recording technique, as in gain levels, mic positioning, mic choice, conversion etc? Thank you so much!!!!

[@stevekimball7697]

Yes!

[@najnacisi]

I own a Gretsch Brooklyn Micro and I am now wondering why they made it only 16x12. Do i lose a lot of depth because its only 12" deep? What about the beater position on a 16"x12" bass. Great channel my man! I really like to listen to you speaking ..and playing :)

[@MusicShed]

Thank you Rick! Learned a lot and what a player!! You made me want to get a Sound King. Does it matter which era it came from? I'm guessing not as much as a wood drum but not sure. Thank you sir!

[@rickdior]

1960's and 70's are both great.

[@MusicShed]

@@rickdior A friend of mine is selling a '61, no serial number mint/no lines one for $475 and a '65 mint 3 line for $400. Too much? I really enjoy your channel! Wonderful stuff Rick

[@MusicShed]

And, of course, I had to get 2 of them! 6.5 from ‘70 and 5 from ‘65

[@justinrice8352]

Would love to hear about batter and resonant head selection. Great video. Thanks.

[@rickdior]

Hi Justin Remo Coated Ambassadors on top, Remo Clear Ambassadors on the bottom.

[@jonathonawarnberg]

My god that ride cymbal

[@Michael127gerard]

Great video thanks. What pitch you tune your snare resonant head at ?

[@kevinmorrell-cm7fe]

Really enjoy listening and watching you I'm.64 lives in Philly 63 yrs just moved to Florida love the weather met buddy rich at age 8 been playing a long time had 4 teachers I play a 67 Jr. Set of pink Champaign sparkle Rodgers but I'm interested in a gretch jazz set at sam ash for 500 tuning and now all the diff. Types of skins gets confusing but still love to play for my own enjoyment. Any recommendations in keeping your sound fresh and interesting from the players perspective??

[@rickdior]

Hi Kevin. I love calf heads, but they can be expensive and are difficult to keep in tune. If you search "calf heads" on my channel you will see some videos on them. They are a completely different sound than the plastic heads.

[@kevinmorrell-cm7fe]

@@rickdior thank you for calf head remarks all drum heads are getting expensive I would get 5 different sizes for all for about 20 bucks now 1 aurora or acquarium I think is 30 .

[@AndyPutt1]

Really interesting. Sounds like your12" tom is a minor third up from the snare. So if the snare's at G, 12" tom B flat?

[@jazzdrummer19]

I noticed your ride cymbal is mounted to the bass drum. Does the rack Tom hum when you play the ride? I have an early 60s George Way/Camco kit with a cymbal arm mounted to the 20” bass drum. When I play the ride cymbal the 12” mounted tom starts to really hum. It’s annoying. Do you have any advice on how to eliminate this? I don’t want to put the Tom on a snare stand or the ride cymbal on a floor stand. I like the classic look! 😎 thanks Rick. I enjoy your videos very much.

[@rickdior]

Hi Dan Thats a great question and I should have addressed it in the video. I tune the top tom to avoid this. It really depends on the pitch of your cymbal. Lower pitched cymbals will tend to cause the rack tom to hum less when that rack to is tuned higher. The trouble comes when they are in close proximity pitch wise. You also want to avoid intervals like 4ths or 5ths. Sometimes just tuning that tom up or down a little bit can get rid of the issue. You really just have to experiment.

[@jazzdrummer19]

@@rickdior Thanks again for answering my question. I’ll experiment with it.

[@davidcudlip6587]

You mention cymbals for jazz being crash and ride types. Do you ever use splash cymbals in your playing? I'm putting together a jazz kit now.

[@earthorigins3509]

Your experience shows and is appreciated. However, the sounds that drums and cymbals produce is purely subjective to the individual ear and not the opinion of others.

[@rickdior]

And where did I say that?....I am constantly saying that these are my opinions if you watch the videos in their entirety.

[@wonder-womyn]

How do you tune your bottom heads? Do you generally them lower than the top head, or do you tune them both the same?

[@rickdior]

On my toms I tune both heads to the same pitch. My snare tuning varies depending on what style of music I am playing. For jazz playing I normally tune the bottom snare head a minor or major 3rd below the top head.

[@rogerstanley3005]

Rick do you teach & live around LA?

[@rickdior]

Hi Roger I live in Charlotte, North Carolina right now but I do trach online lessons.Thanks

[@victorcarlin4067]

Utterly agree on the notching thing man,get your sound worked out ,use the two overheads and the big bass drum mic,then get on with engineering,not

[@TimSuliman]

Why are jazz drummers always like “Oh you need to go out and just pick up this thing” that’s impossible to get? Gear, recordings, etc. Great sound though!

[@rickdior]

Hi Tim What is impossible to get? If you are talking about cymbals there have never been better ones out there with such an enormous selection available. As far as recordings go everything I mention is still available on many platforms and in physical form as well. All the gear I use is available and not expensive unless you are talking about my cymbals which I have used for the last 40 years, but like I said equal to or better options are available right now. Your comment is not based in reality.

[@archisalcedo7045]

Good sound, the bass drum is too muffled for my taste, when I play Be Bop I use coated Ambassadors on Bass Drum with no muffle.

[@rickdior]

Hi Archi That's a 16" bass drum so it does not ring like an 18". Also be careful with how much you let it ring as too much can get in the way of the bass players lines. Many bass players do not like a long ringinging pitched bass drum.

[@archisalcedo7045]

@@rickdior many thanks Rick!. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.