Getting over the SRO

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[@_Art.Vandelay]

Hot take: the DPP footprint is superior to the RMR due to the screws being set farther back allowing for more closed emitter options (i.e. Romeo X Enclosed, EPS). The RMR footprint is only supreme because it was the best dot at the time.

[@nchintalapani]

Yeah, this should not be a hot take but unfortunately is, the RMR footprint was made ubiquitous because the RMR as a product was the best option when the pickings were slim. I am hopeful that the DPP footprint gets its due recognition sooner rather than later.

[@BenStoeger187]

I don't think that's all that crazy that may be what's true.

[@lordhellfire153]

I'll forever say the Acro footprint is the best mounting option and I wish more companies would make options, including open emitters, for it.

[@colostomybag9367]

Why are open emitters superior? I have shot my rmr and SRO in the rain with zero issues. The enclosed emitter dots all seem to be bad. Even the acro has its issues and the dot window is simply too small for me.

[@spamin8r]

@@lordhellfire153 This. Trusting screws not to shear off is crazy.

[@nchintalapani]

Do it Ben, just do it, go attend the training with the O-Light BALDR, that would be hilarious.

[@felixdewinter3484]

Your new recording studio with the neon light and purple wall paint looks like the waiting room to a massage parlor that sits below a Papa John’s in the seedier part of Seattle.

[@douglasmilburn3875]

16:08 Alaska here. Rmr will get packed with snow if you’re actually in it. Most of the time, pistols are secondary to whatever you’re in the field doing (either a rifle, chain saw, sled… whatever you’re actually doing will get your immediate attention I mean) so the pistol will just kind of get packed in deep snow, even in a “protected” safariland holster. Getting the snow out is nearly impossible, or at least it has been for me, in the field. Shooting it when it gets close to out also has the risk of introducing extra factors and you’re not fixing to use that dot again (unless you want to ruin your glass like me lol) until you get back to a controlled environment. The RCR that I replaced the rmr with hasn’t seen snow yet, but has been great so far with the limited time I have with it. A few months of carry is a pretty low bar, but from what I have seen so far, it’s a solid dot. If nothing changes, it will be my go to unless they come out with one more similar to the rmr hd which is pretty awesome. If I didn’t live where I do being the way I am, that’s the dot I’d have bought. This does highlight the differences between field and high level non-field use pretty drastically. I don’t mean to belittle any experience, but a competition shooter will have different experiences in 3” of snow than a delta guy in urban environments and helicopters, compared to a guy dealing with downed trees in a winter storm and deep snow or an infantry guy in whatever environment he finds himself. It’s important to understand your actual use case, and make the decisions around that, just like the gentlemen here are doing.

[@douglasmilburn3875]

Oh, and no hate for holosun or other optics, I just like/have a bias for trijicon lol

[@spectre.solutions]

I understand training with surefire because your clientele has it. That being said surefire is by no means “the stuff to have” this is steeped in bro vet fuds. You are running a can with ancient technology with a mount that costs double what a standard hub compatible mount would cost you. You’re incurring massive amounts of weight in a mount that is about as relevant as keymo and you are getting the sound suppression of $300 cans. They manage flash very well - that may be their only saving grace. Moving to the lights they are outpaced by a modern light manufacturer. There is a reason an entire ecosystem has been built around them to bring a 2 decade old product into the 21st sentry. The light heads are underpowered, the switch options are bulky and don’t stay in the rifle, the output pails in comparison with modlite, owl and malkoff. This is the same rhetoric as saying “well it has a military contract so it must be the best” 320 has a mil contract, bendy spear Lt has a mil contract, scar got a mil contract. I would highly recommend shooting cans and lights from this decade and you may be shocked to see that surefire win fact is not it and has not been it in quite some time. They are an overpriced stream light in the light world and an overpriced dead air sandman in the can world imo

[@HWG-wm8ld]

I get major discounts on surefire and other products. Is it okay if I continue to use my overpriced crap

[@spectre.solutions]

@@HWG-wm8ld heck yeah man you may be getting it close to what it’s worth.

[@dropmeA]

I'll remember that when my can still works after 10k rounds

[@spectre.solutions]

@@dropmeA I have over 10k on three separate 556 suppressors with no failures - none of them being surefire. Is 1 year of shooting your durability standard for a tube of metal with baffles?

[@PretendtoImagine-k9f]

Turbo scout performs better than an OKW…

[@Adam-wl3vt]

100% agree. Only complaint is that I wish the 507comp had a 6moa dot.

[@DaBigBR]

Deltapoint Pro footprint has screws narrow enough to fit about any slide. It's the same screw dimensions and spacing as RMSc/507k footprint so it adapts well to those optics.

[@520tactical]

DPP has a narrower mounting screw pattern making it easier to direct mount on some slides like the Shadow 2

[@roflchopter11]

Regarding the open versus closed-emitter dots, I was at a three-gun match and it started to rain. My 507C emitter got rain on it through my crappy raincoat and the little pop-up hood on my safariland holster and the dot was totally unusable. It did dry out after like 30 minutes.

[@Nitroaereus]

I do lean towards closed emitters for CCW due to experience. When carrying concealed all day, everyday, my optic inevitably collects lint. I'm able to clean it off the primary optic lenses without any trouble, but when it gets on the emitter, I've found it to be a huge pain to get it nice and clean again, especially with the compact micro dots. It's certainly doable, but after a few months of dealing with a linted emitter week in and week out, I switched to an EPS Carry and never looked back.

[@BA-oy9uo]

Have 2 Holosun EPS's. if I wanted an SRO style dot would probably get the 507 Comp or the new Defender XL

[@CaptainComatose]

What adapter plates do you use? I don't like the one I could find for my Glock here in Germany. I'm waiting for a calculated kinetics one to arrive. Any other options?

[@BA-oy9uo]

@@CaptainComatose My Echelon direct mounts and for my Beretta I use a Dlahh plate. I'm not a glock guy personally. You could always ask the guys from Black Trident in Austria they might have a better recommendation for local stuff. But I hear a lot of folks in the Walther circles using Calculated Kinetics plates and liking them so likely that will be a good quality plate for you.

[@CaptainComatose]

@@BA-oy9uo thanks

[@Mike_219]

Was literally in Ben's class last weekend and someone's SRO emitter just died. He said he just bought the dot earlier this year. If you could've seen Ben's face lol

[@azcompetitiveshooter]

i love my 507comp with green dot. ditched my sro's for a fleet of 507comps across my rigs and couldnt be happier. i still prefer my deltapoint pro's on some of my rigs only because ive had tremendous luck with them through tens of thousands of rounds with no issues and love the crisp 2.5 size dot on dpp's super clear glass.

[@max3835]

I'm still running an RMR RM06. These supposedly have the longest battery life of the bunch.

[@tuffshot1584]

507 comp crapped out on me...I've had numerous Holosuns over the years all of them have been reliable, till now. It has been mounted on an open gun with maybe 7K to 8K rounds sending it back to Holosun and we'll see how good their customer service/warranty is.

[@GLOCKsh00ter24]

I've had 2 SROs fuck up. One took a 3 foot fall in a padded case that turned the dot into a shot gun pattern. The other had the inner glass crack, the glass in front of the emitter. This one had less than 5000 rounds on it.

[@cokedaz]

I agree on the closed emitter thing. Except for people expecting to roll around in the snow and mud and come out of a swamp. I really don't know the percentage of people who have open emitters that have ever had the dot blocked by something, and if so, if it was that hard to fix? I think there are more downsides to the closed emitter at the moment. Seal issues. Issues from having two pieces of glass vs 1. Mounting screw issues, size, weight etc. I don't think its needed, and if you are that worried about a dot not being there, maybe run co-witness irons and be done with it. Or get that magnetic optic mount. It seems in all situations the 507 Comp is just offering more than what the SRO once did. Its wider, has different dot options, green and red options, 200 coins cheaper. The SRO isn't bad, it just may be getting slightly out of date based off offerings from other companies. Its about time we get an SRO 2.0. Or some other companies stepping in. There are a lot of companies now with windows larger than the SRO as well. I just hate the footprint issue. I wish we could standardize on one or two at max.

[@onpsxmember]

It is not that it isn't fixable, but if you have to get it from kaleidoscope state to usable while on the clock you can dig around a (gloved) finger to get stuff out may cost you the stage depending on if you can clean the emitter. That's mostly a weather dependent issue on 2gacm. Atm, I think if they couldn't just enclose the emitter to have a nice flat front and form the inside to get everything cleaned up quickly, it could be less of an issue. The weight is coming down again with the EPS (regular 39g) while others like the acro (P-2: 61g), rcr (56g), steiner mps (58g) are made to be more rugged. All seem to fail so it comes down to how much window size one wants and if a holster works well with rds that stick out way wider than the pistol. While making rds smaller they go to weaker and harder to get batteries. One would think they'd sit together with a battery company and make some that can handle the cold better and fit their application. The romeo x enclosed pro could be an option but they go down from a cr2032 to cr1632 to make it lighter and reduce height. All the plates should just vanish and one system in the dot base grabs into a prepared surface and holds it down after a screw is tightened to torque spec. Easy on off and repeatable. Scratching 1k$...come on. Some cover their behinds stating new screws should be used all 5k rounds. I really wonder why nobody jumps on the old eye revolver market with matt chrome finished dots. Would they all croak on wheel guns if they survive on shotguns and air rifles?

[@MrRiskyZ]

Biggest thing is the reliability. I bought all my SROs when y’all were renting and raving about them and I don’t plan to change just because I’ve tried all the other ones before the SRO and have had them fail in extremely low round count of the 7 SRO I have only had to return one to get repaired. And I have tried all the other ones 🤷‍♂️

[@PrairieDoggin2024]

I do understand the “buy in US when you can” but I’m not going to let that dictate my purchase decision when the difference is 2x as much. I’ve met the holosun dudes at shot show and they’re as American as anyone I know so 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@TheGrandPoohPaw]

The best part of this exchange between you and Joel is that there was nothing to get upset about. Went in thinking I was going to come out feeling bad about my recently purchased Trij SRO that came with my new Staccato, and I absolutely don’t. In fact, it makes me feel better that it was made in the USA, so no regret factor there. I’m still down on the USSR too, so there’s that.

[@coltonowens2742]

As a guy who really loves my Acro P2 piggybacked on my Vortex Spitfire 5x, I absolutely agree the closed emitter pistol dot trend is overrated. I know the Acro's been getting a lot of deserved hate, but I've seen enough issues from the rest of them, that I'd never run any of em on a pistol. I don't think the durability is there. The RCR might be the only exception.

[@chapllc722]

Yes, and even the RCR doesn’t have the track record that your P2 has yet.

[@onpsxmember]

Nobody has seen much of those. Maybe the sig romeo x enclosed pro (could they make it longer?) may also hold up but cr1632 if one cares.

[@p20j3ctx]

I had a hard time focusing on the discussion because Ben's shirt had me dead laughing. ⚰️⚰️

[@arrshooting]

If you are dealing with reflections, try the rts2, best glass in the industry.

[@shawnpatten6515]

I recently picked up a Vortex Defender ST. The Glock optics plate it comes with is great. Glass has less distortion than my 507 Comp. ST on the 19, Comp on the 34.

[@onpsxmember]

The thing about closed emitters is mainly convenience to clean the lenses and water, snow, dust lint and now again in season pollen can't get on the emitter. Sadly it seems quite hard to keep stuff from getting in and failing. For the price of a decent watch this should be doable at least with the big and heavy ones. Even with all the 'what if' scenarios unmentioned, there are ranges that have these moon dust like stuff flying around and the ones who know bag their pistols between stages to keep them running. Then some people go to 2-gun action challenge stuff and had snow/water issues. I still want an enclosed dot and somehow one has to currently live with them farting out, fogging up, falling apart while paying quite a bit. Mages me aggro. If this doesn't change I my try some fibre lit option, maybe they can enclose that for treefiddy.

[@MrZola1234]

I'm new to pistols, and bought 507 comps for my G34 and CZ 75 SP01.

[@YdoIneedahandle869]

Rain can mess with open emitters

[@CA.0verview]

11:25 I as well dislike how proprietary their adjustment holes are. I wish they can make a hole that allows to adjust with brass case on the fly.

[@chinesemassproduction]

I am convinced that the RCR is still worth trying. It's supposed to keep shit out and has been shown to be as durable as the RMR. I don't know why no one is giving it a chance.

[@tyronetheterrible1901]

Attachment system is an incredibly large compromise to retain the RMR footprint. You torque the capstan screws by bending an Allen key as measurement, like 30 degrees of bend. I did that and after 800 rounds it started to wiggle despite loctite, I’m replacing it with a type 2 since this is a carry gun

[@mcafee2772]

I like the SRO over the 507 comp because its a bit easier to conceal both are good dots wish SRO was cheaper

[@MADDOG100ful]

The new Gideon red dot is Great also. and they are under 240.00$$$$ :)

[@Cryptic-1-9-1-1]

Although the SRO is good, I just never cared for it. I didn't like the round colored glass or the big fat bezel around the outside. Just distracting. I prefer more wide/square glass like the romeo3 xl, so thats what I put on my atlas

[@CA.0verview]

5:44 I would be happy, paying more for a huxwrks can than a surefire can.

[@marineplaysairsoft]

Give me an RMR that refuses to die, Ben! I'm poor!

[@AJohnSmith]

RMR is KAHNG shit.

[@Blain5700]

At least you have a choice (are they really made all in the US?) with the red dots. You don't have a viable choice with where your cell phone is made.

[@ExpertOpinions805]

You never had a problem with the Duel fuel scout lights? I'm about to record a bad review due to to 2 lights having problems.

[@Spaman42]

I’ve got a couple 507’s, an SRO, a DPP, an EPS & some other stuff. Won’t be buying another SRO or EPS. Can’t say I’d buy a Defender due to footprint.

[@onpsxmember]

What made you no longer want an eps? Standard or carry?

[@Spaman42]

@@onpsxmember it’s still in use on my G19, just not interested in an additional one. It works well and I like it, but when it goes I may consider another option but until then it’ll do.

[@wiscojoe_ggg3449]

I heard they went with the dpp footprint on the Vortex dots because all of the military 320’s come cut for the dpp footprint from the factory. I don’t think it had anything to do with which mounting design is better. Just marketing to military contracts.

[@LucasFerreira-qx6kr]

Exactly this.

[@noah.s95]

The two most common guns are Sig P320 and Glock MOS. The Sig is DPP cut and the MOS is a plate. Therefore a DPP cut fits both

[@swiftaudi]

The DPP footprint fits more guns because of the locations of the mounting screws being closer together. I love the SRO I hope we someday get a single footprint for all guns. Personally I like the acro footprint.

[@jeffschultz8817]

Closed emitter for duty = Holosun EPS

[@gbos4384]

Anyone notice Ben’s Shirt….. Hilarious

[@moostangvert]

507comps love on a couple of my Shadow2s now due to SROs breaking. My only complaint is all the extra stupid reticles. Lack of double dot so far has been pretty nice though.

[@tyrannicallover4051]

I like my SRO but in the same boat myself, I'm in the market for another dot and see no reason to get another one. The 507comp is straight up a comparable and arguably more feature rich product for $200 less. My SRO is also out for RMA due to battery life issues and the battery cover is straight up awful, every time I had to replace it I felt like I was gonna crossthread it and have an expensive paperweight

[@CA.0verview]

2:10 exactly my thoughts for his reasoning.

[@user-pc9up7oj5n]

Running a 507Comp on a Shadow 2 Comp, shoot once per week and dryfire daily. I use the dot configuration, have it always in sleep mode and at low brightness. I barely get two months of battery life with the second month missing some of the "crispness" of the thing...

[@onpsxmember]

What is this Shadow 2 comp? Contact them.

[@user-pc9up7oj5n]

@@russiancommy I'll probably keep changing the battery every two months till it fails completely (if it fails...). It only takes seconds anyhow. Will be testing different battery brands too and see if it makes any difference

[@Mrgunsngear]

🔴

[@chapllc722]

Awesome to see you here!

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Si mp

[@wigger88]

Personally, I love my SRO. However, there are definitely many choices that are as good or better. To each their own. My rule of thumb is no SRO on anything that cost less than 1000 dollars. Because it's just so unnecessary.

[@david_62708]

I'd like to hear a good explanation of why people go for a small dot. Maybe for a competition dot it doesn't matter, but it seems like a bigger dot is better because it's less likely to get lost in weird lighting situations and it's still smaller than anyone can shoot. I can't imagine anyone is shooting less than 6moa groups freehand even with a rifle, much less a pistol.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Because I don’t need a giant dot.

[@CaptainComatose]

Isn't the brightness more important than being big?

[@SpadeBoy838]

Thoughts on Bushnell rx-300?

[@HWG-wm8ld]

This guy is paid for.

[@tostado22]

There's 2 that are upset. Good job, Ben and Joel

[@familycollected3774]

Joel talks about his gear being to the level to train SF. Does he keep the same standard for his body?

[@tostado22]

Found the guy you upset. Good work, Joel!

[@seanmccurdy94]

Triangles are cool

[@leif8532]

How many different drinks does Ben need at once??

[@onpsxmember]

He's hooked up with 4 IVs between his toes.^^

[@jonathanstringer4313]

But what about the AEMS?

[@HWG-wm8ld]

When bell helmets offered me helmets at cost, I stopped wearing Arai. If you are sponsored or have help from a good company, go with it as long as it is not shit.

[@MG-so8yf]

Some thing I really wonder about is how you not care about brands but just about quality in relation to price - but with gun lights, you seem just care about the brand - regardless the insane price. Why does the light brand matter (as long as it is good) - other than the military guys thinking about why you have an olight or whatnot (while they should rather think about what they can take away from your lessons)?

[@modernsoul6590]

I tried to not shop on Amazon. Then the items I ordered from somewhere else were just drop shipped from Amazon.

[@CaptainComatose]

😆

[@Desertpunk1986]

Just ordered some O-Lights…….you know…..when I was in Iraq we would duck tape flashlights to our rifles……

[@joie0]

I’m pretty sure the vortex dots say made in China on them….

[@CaptainComatose]

My two Venoms were made in the Philippines. My tubes (Crossfire) are made in China

[@Mrjohnnymoo1]

Aren’t Vortex also made in China?

[@AJohnSmith]

Our entire country is made there.

[@Mrjohnnymoo1]

@@AJohnSmith I was made in California.

[@sonsofnewengland835]

What about Modlite???

[@HaydenLane9mm]

That was my comment Ben read. They conveniently ignored that it was about a $400 fake suppressor lol, no one claims Surefire turbo lights aren’t good. Love Modlite for the handheld bodies though.

[@CA.0verview]

15:01 the bad stigma of open emitters came from a long time KZbin channel called military arms channel during the early guntuber years and it’s been stuck ever since

[@collateralcoyote9083]

I agree that the hesitancy around open emitters is way overblown, but it was not MAC alone that resulted in those concerns. I personally have seen guys run into issues when shooting comps and even when carrying IWB. A little water, dirt, or lint in the wrong spot and you have a problem. It is of course easy to fix, but I don't see many downsides to closed emitters besides being ugly haha.

[@GreatKingBenis]

Open emitters on comp/larp guns is totally fine. Though after having an enclosed emitter on my edc I don’t think I’ll go back.

[@roflchopter11]

I had it rain during a three gun match and it got the emitter of my 507C wet through my raincoat and the little safariland hood.

[@onpsxmember]

It all depends on the usage. And if one's match isn't stopped by rain or snow, full off fine sand/dust I'd like to rely on enclosed emitters. Sadly not yet there with reliability it seems. And don't forget plant pollen. With glass falling out, humidity inside and stuff delaminating it seems like it is a QC and adhesive & electronics issue.

[@stevetazphoto]

Joel if you're getting a bunch of holosuns for free can I have one of your SRO's for free? Haha

[@douglasmoore8033]

If it's so important to buy American, up the quality to reflect or drop the price.

[@MikeA817]

17:15 People get spun up about Holosun, etc., because they think "Made in America" is a brand or is synonymous with "quality."

[@lewisshemery2585]

No mention of sig romeo 3xl? It's gotta be one of the best competition optics.

[@zen-Tii]

Damn, Parks is irritating.

[@markcasey1127]

Ben I need that T shirt. Go Wuhan Institute .....for health.

[@tomwilson1006]

Ben, you and Matt need to do a breakdown of the “Tim Kennedy vs Crossfitter” pistol stage video that’s posted to the Origin channel. Would be great to see you and Matt discuss everyone’s favorite “hero” on how he did at a timed pistol event. Lmao

[@HWG-wm8ld]

F that gun grabber

[@AJohnSmith]

*SRO always poop.*

[@madisonberg627]

BREAKING NEWS BEN AND JOEL ARE FUDDS AS THEY DEBUNK THE “ENCLOSED EMITTER”

[@PolenarTactical]

This is because they dont use their guns in conditions that would need closed emitters which is perfectly fine. But if you are doing something like Brutality Match or anything where there is a lot of dirt, water or mud it's a must. Yes, you can eventually clean out the emitter but when this happens on the clock (or for example in a real life situation) the time is of the essence. We talked about this 5 years ago when the Rudy Reyes got a small rain drop in his 510 emitter and it was so bad that it ruined his whole competition. The point is that your use will dictate what kind of equipment you need

[@nchintalapani]

@@PolenarTactical Supp Ziga, very well put, mission dictates gear. I would definitely run an enclosed emitter for Finnish Brutality or lekka piechota style comps.

[@Fryheart]

​@@PolenarTactical I also think rifle vs pistol is a relevant difference. Water does nothing to a pistol red dot, I tried it first hand, it self cleans when the slide cycles.

[@PolenarTactical]

@@Fryheart try some mud or coarse sharp "moon" sand from Loppi range in Finland 😆

[@chap23305]

The made in America thing is disingenuous to me. Holosun was a shit company, until their mother company received the contract to produce Sig optics. After that, Holosun magically got good. If you boycott Holosun, people better boycott Sig too.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

No one is gonna boycott either of them

[@chap23305]

@HWG-wm8ld I agree, nor should they in my opinion.

[@FiringLineShooting]

The other guy on the video is hating on Trijicon just to hate on Trijicon. There's nothing wrong with the SRO. It's a great composition optic. It has become trendy to ditch Trijicon products in favor of what Holosun products in many cases because of what Holosun offers... That is a sheep/ herd mentality. Holosun has gotten ahead in innovation, but Trijicons newer RMR HD and RCR are just as innovative. I firmly believe people completely shift their mindsets and opinions in the gun community due to peer pressure. I hate it. P.S., I just purchased a couple of 507 Comps to see what they are like for myself, But my mind didn't magically change about the sros I currently have on my guns, and I'm not going to change those out. Now that I'm on the part about closed emitters, my instant answer would be the Trijicon RCR, But that wasn't even discussed.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

He would change his stance if Trijicon sponsored him.

[@martinlawrence1923]

acro p2 ftw and hunter Constantine is a better shooter than both y’all

[@tostado22]

There's 3!

[@Gonnaasku]

😂 preach dude

[@Thelingerer]

Only 46 views in 3 minutes? Ben fell off.