Getting Speaker Placement Right In Your Studio | The Steven Klein Interview

[@Producelikeapro]

What speakers are you currently using in your studio? Share below!

[@Ryan_Messenger]

Kali LP-6s. Definite upgrade from my last pair but a sub is needed. 🤘

[@andreirlmeier]

Ns10m and tannoy and a jbl go1 mono Bluetooth speaker

[@Positive_Tea]

KRK 8s Gen 5 with the 10 inch KRK sub

[@cluster0ne]

Just got pair of Adam Audio AV4V's.. Pretty good sound from those little woofers. The bass goes quite low on these.. I don't think that I have to upgrade anytime soon(what I alway say 🤣)

[@Dragndroprecords]

I'm using 2 Yamaha Hs10s, with a Presonus Sub, I also mix on headphones, ear buds, and mono speakers, to make it translate everywhere be it a phone or even laptop speakers.

[@johnnymac5880]

Great job on the interview, staying out of the way and letting Steven talk without interruptions. Really enjoyed this

[@sfn4702]

Same! Well pleased with this interview. Thanks Warren.

[@Producelikeapro]

Thank you so much! I'm learning still too!

[@VincentZauhar]

I used to struggle with stereo separation a little while back, and decided to rotate the speakers a bit towards the outside. It really did help, so I'm glad to hear confirmation that it was a good idea! Also, right on the money. The important part is knowing your gear and your room, so you can make the right decisions that will translate well everywhere else.

[@Producelikeapro]

That's great to hear Vincent. Thanks ever so much

[@dronbana]

So nice to listen to people who know what they’re talking about, thanks Warren for making it possible.

[@Producelikeapro]

You're very welcome!

[@deanrussell5901]

Big thanks Warren for bringing Steven Klein on the show and dropping some real wisdom on studio monitoring. Your insights are invaluable, keep 'em coming!

[@splashesin8]

This is the placement that I've always appreciated Don Reed for. 😊 I always know if he's the one doing the audio, it isn't going to be a nightmare singing in a live situation, wherever the venue is. I'm glad to hear someone else talking about this. Thank you Steven Klein. Thanks Warren. 🚀💫

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much! I really appreciate it

[@gatis.pastars]

I`ve been following this channel for a long time, but this episode just hit the universe in depth of essence! Thanks Warren!

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much! Glad to be able to help

[@ThePladiator]

Steven reminds me so much of my deceased grandfather. His passion, experience and wisdom is something I hope to have to share with younger generations when I am his age

[@chrisrussoroos6091]

Great job as a supportive interviewer Warren - it allowed for great info to come forth. Thanks to you both🙏🏼👍🏼

[@Producelikeapro]

Much appreciated! That means a lot

[@joehamiltonsongs]

I got to experience the genius of Steve in Miami. The man has done so much and been in the middle of historic recordings.The stories and anecdotes. God Bless you Steve.

[@tunemxr480]

What a masterclass! Brilliant on so many levels…

[@Producelikeapro]

Really appreciate it!

[@varonthomas565]

Wow. Excellent clip. …These are the Masters of a Golden Era passing the torch of insight to future generations that would otherwise be lost.

[@millermusicnsound]

Amazing information! Some of this I already knew and a lot I didn’t so thank you Warren for getting this to us. I love how he said you only need one pair of speakers and get to know them and your room, get the placement right and boom it’s that simple.

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much Linzi! I really appreciate it

[@keithferris9574]

Absolutely perfect interview. So informative and clearly stated.

[@Producelikeapro]

Thank you very much!

[@LohPro]

i'll be building my first home recording room in a few weeks. as of now, i plan on having my LSR 305s about 61.5" center-to-center & angled so the apex is formed about 11" behind my head in the listening position. also, building an RFZ on the side walls & ceiling using 4" panels (3" of Rockwool Safe & Sound + 1" air gap). Lastly, my listening position is about 38% from the front wall (66.5" in a room that is 175" long). most of this info i'm going with is from Bobby Owsinski have a marvelous day my friend, thank you for all your content & help you give us all!! God Bless you & the whole team at PLAP!!

[@omarverone]

My testimony on this: i stoped using sonarworks after i corrected the position on my monitors. Even discarded the feeling of upgrading to a new ones

[@Positive_Tea]

Right on time! I'm building out a home studio room this week!

[@andreirlmeier]

Good luck 👍🏻

[@HrpbTV]

Good luck man!

[@Producelikeapro]

Perfect! Good luck!

[@craigadamjohnston8783]

This just reminded me to focus on the basics before spending money on reference adjustment software! Lots of food for thought.

[@dcright]

This episode had the best tip. I moved my monitors from the 60 degree angle that I thought they had to be at and, Holy Cow, what a difference! The imaging is so much better! It's like having a new set of speakers! 😃

[@danieldavismusic]

Love this interview. So much valuable information in here. I'm finishing up setting up my 7.2.4 Atmos array, and hearing his thoughts about the tweeters aiming 3 feet behind you (so that they are aimed at your ears and not your nose) is a great reminder.

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much Daniel!

[@PierrePienaar]

Such a great interview and thank you for letting him go on tangents as that's where the golden nuggets tend to come from!

[@andriskissproducer]

My mind is blown away. Such a fantastic video. Finally someone said it: 13:56-14:27 👏👌🫶

[@Producelikeapro]

Marvellous! Thanks for sharing!

[@lelandbobpalmer]

"they got lucky with the NS-10" LOL To me, Steve REALLY hits the mark and sums it up perfectly at 15:10 !!! Thanks for the video!!

[@DaveHickox]

Love the detail, I made my own open baffle speakers, 3 way, 15 " sub's, 15" midrange with wheezers and ribbon tweeter's, really enjoy info about speakers, directionality is so very important when placing them, still moving them around, Thank you for this interview!!

[@Producelikeapro]

wow, thanks for sharing!

[@martinmullen71]

I really enjoyed this, this gentleman made things sound very simple and easy to understand, I watched other KZbin videos and ended up completely mixed up.

[@eleven903]

This man breaks it down so beautifully. Finally a veteran of the industry who actually inspires me, rather than implying that I'm just an amatuer trying to imitate the Masters of the past. One question I really would have like to have heard asked: How does one beneficially compare what one hears with studio monitor headphones to what one hears with monitor speakers? I seem to find a sweet spot where my song mixes sound reasonably balanced and similar between the two...does that sound like I'm on the right track (no pun intended)?

[@SoundKilterStudio]

HOLY S#IT!!!! I moved into my new home about 1.5 years ago and I have a decent size "Studio/Control" room and have a lot of absorption panels on the walls and a couple on the ceiling. But the sound has still always bothered me. So I tried moving my monitors up and angled them out more as suggested, and the difference was MIND BLOWING!!! 🤯 Thank you for the awesome video full of excellent information!

[@Joey-rp5vg]

Steven seems like a cool dude with a wealth of knowledge. Since I bought the Kali Audio in8, I have been struggling with them. I am going to try the advice from Steven and see how it goes. Thanks very much for an informative video. Cheers

[@Producelikeapro]

I'm sure the info will help! The IN-8s are great value

[@Joey-rp5vg]

@@Producelikeapro Thanks very much Warren for taking the time for all your replies, its really appreciated.

[@Producelikeapro]

I really appreciate it!@@Joey-rp5vg

[@baub58]

Wow! What a very knowledgeable man! He has just imparted a huge, valuable wealth of knowledge. I will have to give this a second listen! I like his statements regarding frequency response; my takeaway is we need to get the time domain and room reverberation as correct as possible.

[@musiccreation1198]

Wow...gotta rethink my set up. Thank you Warren and Steven

[@Producelikeapro]

Any time!

[@bobbeals2893]

As always, fantastic information!!! Thank you again , Warren!!!

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much!

[@jbaranowski1990]

Great to hear that cause I was really not sure to buy monitors to my "home/bedroom kind of" studio cause I read a lot about room acoustics, room treatments and so on so I just wonder "meeeh probably just didn't work and I just get even worse results than I would just buy $1K headphones and mix on them" but Mr. Klein's statements about easy steps to make listening experience better convinced me that I should buy a pair without hesitation and any doubts. Very interesting topics and very insteresting expert! I really like to hear what "older" experienced engineers have to say cause they have experience that many new and young guys and gals don't. Please more interviews with Mr. Klein and similar experts, Warren! :)

[@jeffdavid1234]

Hi Steve remember you from Criteria glad to see you still going.

[@1loveMusic2003]

He is the real deal.

[@Producelikeapro]

Indeed!

[@BillAltman]

Super helpful thanks Steve and Warren!

[@Producelikeapro]

Happy to help!

[@andigisler]

It's Jerry Garcia! No, this was just AMAZING! Thanks so much, incredible insight, just wow!

[@thejabbawookie1010]

Fantastic! Brilliant no nonsense common sense

[@LuddyVonBeat]

I could listen to that guy all evening :)

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much!

[@sonicart1808]

Incredibly interesting interview Thanks Warren!

[@scottbelcher3013]

Great timing! Been trying to set up a new listening spot for weeks now., lol Thanks for all the inspiration!

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much Scott!

[@SoJesusChristMusic]

HE SAID A MAN WITH ONE WATCH ALWAYS KNOWS WHAT TIME IT IS…A MAN WITH TWO WATCHES IS NEVER SURE 😂 IM BLOWN AWAY 🤣 He took it home with that one

[@JochSejoMusic]

So what I'm planning to do is to place speakers on two separated free-standing shelving units instead of stands because I want to have different speakers on each shelf (a studio speaker and a smaller passive speaker etc or whatever I think of later) side by side. To have them as home decor and workability in one. So what I got from this interview is that the tweeters need to be higher up than my ears and aim behind my head a bit and they can stand flat facing horizontaly, also that the most important first reflections to cover is from firstly the midrange giving directional distortion if reflecting off of something before reaching my ears so the area around and in front of me should be treated if I am sitting at a desk away from the speaker units. And if the midrange is hitting the wall before it is hitting my ears the walls need panels at the first reflection. And choose speakers that I like the sound of and not go after a perfectly flat frequency response becasue the ears don't work like that ? Ears are more sensetive to the higher midrange so a perfect frequency from the ear's perspective would have good bass, less energy where the ears are most sensetive and so on, or a speaker with the inverse response of the hearing of the listener to create a true flat respone for only your specific hearing , wouldn't that be ideal? I do use DSP/EQ software to tweek my speakers but only by ear so they sound good for me. I pretty much balance the speaker like if it's a mix until they sound balanced and accurate.

[@chadfayrobinson7537]

Very informative and I had fun moving my speakers LOL!! I Love My Neumann KH 120s

[@leefchapman]

Fantastic and much needed topic. Thanks for the interview!

[@Producelikeapro]

Our pleasure!

[@SoJesusChristMusic]

Many people probably thing this guy is crazy…but he knows what he’s talking about ☺️

[@The-Skyking]

Freakin' GREAT video! Thanks for this. A lot of amazing information and not just "I like these speakers or those speakers" or "you have to have these toys or do this gimmick". Straight up knowledge and really useful. Thanks for this.

[@kzustang]

Very good interview! Learned a lot and made some changes to my speakers position, chair and reflections. Thank you!

[@Producelikeapro]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@valleywoodstudio7345]

Been on Genelec 1030A for 20 years. Have a single little Fostex 6301 for mono/small checks and a pair of old AR18's over on the other side of the room to check periodically out of the zone.

[@esmoroglu]

Incredibly inspiring informative interview. Thanks so much.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much

[@ThomasL]

Basically what he is saying for speaker height is that the Acoustic Center of your speaker (The point at the perfect center of the distance between your mid and tweeter - for a 3 way ,or the same point at the perfect center of your Low/Mid and Tweeter for a 2 way) should be at the exact height of your ears in order to have highs ands mids arriving to you at perfect phase coherency, which means, as he said, that the tweeter is always a bit above your ears. This method makes it more precise.

[@dagovevareberg]

Thanks a lot for that clarification, it was not clear in the interview! Can you please elaborate on the ‘equilateral 60 degree rule’? To me it seems like he kind of questioned that, but I’m not quite sure I fully understood it? Think his point was that sound moves in the same way as waves in water and hence they’re not directive as a torch lamp - but it seems like he said that you could move the speakers outwards to get a wider stereo field or something? And something about a distance of 3 foot behind your head, I reckon that’s the point in the equilateral 60 degree thing, correct?

[@ThomasL]

@@dagovevareberg Well, yeah, it's not questionned but it has to fit to you/our head. We're not flat like a point, our head and body has width. Means that the perfect sound is, mathematically indeed, at that perfect point to form the equilateral triangle, you take this as a base but you add the width of your own body and the angle of your ears to get it parallel to the face of the speakers. There's no exact angle because your ears are not inclined like mines or Warren's for example. Though the exact mathematical and theorical base if indeed that equilateral triangle, just adapt it to your body width and ear angle.

[@dagovevareberg]

@@ThomasL Aha, great clarification! Think I got it now, thanks again 👍😀

[@hakangurdol]

Thank you for grate experience. listen so much and yes mix my brain so much, also having one watch yes it's enough.

[@Producelikeapro]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@miguelluismusic4181]

Warren you keep looking younger and younger… 🍀🙏 🎸 🎉 My studio rocks Kali LP8s and Adam T8Vs… Both make me and my music happy… I’m getting younger too…. talk soon… ⚡️🎼⚡️

[@PurpleMusicProductions]

Wow I just realized that make speakers are in the wrong position angle wise although on stands. This is great information! Thank you for sharing this.

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much!

[@PurpleMusicProductions]

@@Producelikeapro Thanks so much Warren, because the mix (Radius) you reviewed for me on feedback Friday, I replayed the mix again and heard the overheads better once I changed my speaker position and would have addressed them more now that I heard more of the details. Truly amazing what you can hear and discover with the right heights and angles. I now hear my monitors differently, but in a good way. Gosh I love being in the academy!

[@shravanam]

Sonic Wisdom ! Work Experience, understanding your ears and adapting to your acoustic environment is the key to a great mixer. The rest follows ..

[@pavloseattle]

This guy is absolutely awesome man

[@Producelikeapro]

Marvellous

[@Banquet...]

Very interesting, I just bought some Adam A7Vs and this is helpful (although my room is so small - but I found the Sonarworks calibration has helped a lot!)

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much for sharing!

[@besenkopf77]

That was really interesting! Thank you. I'm also interested in knowing about the distance between the speakers and the wall behind them. It seems to me that the rule should be the farther the better, but that's almost never what I see. They seem is always up against the wall, even in a very long room.

[@sfn4702]

I was wondering if he would touch on this as well.

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much! Glad you enjoyed the video.

[@Producelikeapro]

More to come!@@sfn4702

[@montgomeryhaines2087]

Good interview. I have some Yamaha monitors laying flat on speaker stands. After hearing Steve’s valuable advice, I’m definitely going to set them upright. I have a small room (attic) with a sloped ceiling and acoustic foam all over the place with a few pieces on the ceiling which isn’t sloped. The sloped part is completely covered. How should I treat this area? Oh, and it has one window which is behind my monitors.

[@theBullringLive]

Like the shirt says, if it sounds good, it is. Very informative. Thanks!

[@DrMackSplackem]

Fascinating stuff!

[@MountainViewStudio]

Great interview!! Thx Warren

[@jackstanton9955]

Fantastic information!

[@andreirlmeier]

Important topic , thnx Warren !!

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much

[@worldsyoursent.1635]

If monitor placement is not the glue to getting the best results. I don’t know what is This is crucial!!

[@anthonydallarosa8314]

This was awesome

[@CountJayeAndTheHardBeats]

Extremely interesting. Thank you.

[@Producelikeapro]

Our pleasure!

[@Spider._.dust_music]

Thx for another great video🤘🔥

[@bilanggoboy]

Comparing how air moves from a speaker to a pond which can only react within its plane as an explanation to how a speaker doesn’t emit a direct focused sound in front if itself was a bit confusing, but other than that this was very informative. Thank you!

[@BrentJJ]

Thank you for sharing...🎶☮🎶....love the content, thank you

[@Producelikeapro]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@MrAtsguitar]

Great info thank you!

[@Underview]

Great advice!

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much!

[@sassulusmagnus]

Very interesting interview. I feel liberated from the 60-60-60 triangle. Using studio monitors seems to present a bit of a conundrum. We want to minimize factors that interfere with how accurately we hear the monitors, yet the more we remove these interferences the less our studio listening environment acoustically resembles environments in which the music will be listened to outside of the studio. Beyond a certain point, Grasshopper, the pursuit of accuracy potentially begins to defeat itself.

[@pile63]

This was a great interwiew.

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks so much!

[@billsybainbridge3362]

I agree with Klein about many things. It's true that we are less sensitive to vertical Incident Angle. Approximately 12 degrees or so is about the limit before we sense an outstanding elevation difference. "Infinite Baffles are a mess." Nah. What's a mess is the intention for speaker manufacturers to design Directivity so meekly. IMNSHO, Infinite Baffles are one of the only ways to level the playing field for wildly different Monitors. I'm one for minimizing SBIR as much as possible, because that's one of the only influences on Room Modes that can be mitigated by Speaker Positioning. The main difference is whether Reflection or Absorption is the primary Acoustic Treatment for the Center Field (between the Monitors). OK, well, a critical component these days are VIDEO Monitors - and the ONLY sensible placement of them is as an Acoustic Component of the room. That means there are VERY few that won't cause problems with placement. They either need to mimic where a Mixing Desk is regarding First Reflection angles, or as a "Pseudo Soffit" arrangement, whereby we're back to the first issue of Infinite Baffles. Much more to discuss, for those interested. Sincerely, Billsy.

[@QFXmusic]

Simply Brilliant :)

[@kevnls]

Landlines represent!!

[@miquelbrooks-cj2ks]

Love this guy

[@williamshaneblyth]

Awesome wisdom learnt a lot. Thankyou so much

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much

[@jonathanreddish8590]

good info here!!! and he confirms my theory, that its easy to over listen, and mix for days.... just let the mastering guys deal with it... (lol)...... it is however very hard to explain to artists what mastering is, and why.........

[@kelvynification]

Is that staring directly forward towards the tweeters or slightly up at them?

[@ardierr.2525]

I wish i had these advice when i started

[@Producelikeapro]

We all do!

[@MikeFromDownUnder]

Thanks for sharing this! 👍

[@Producelikeapro]

Our pleasure!

[@jonathanreddish8590]

my favorite quote.... "do not ask a computer to fix it for you".......

[@kiritsi100]

Does he have a minimum of how far from the wall your monitors should be? I've found at least 1.5 feet to reduce bass reflections. I also use speaker stands and that makes a huge difference. Great interview!

[@dreamcat4]

well i for one would like to know what your speakers are then! to lookup whether they are front ported, rear ported, or not ported. (to see if this advice is also applicable and relevant to my own speakers). but it does also raise another general question about wall mounting. whether a wall mount can provide a 45cm gap behing the speaker without then also requiring or needing a soffet / cuby hole too... and then with that how the sound reflects back out of the cubby hole, then how thick the acoustic treatment needs to be behind that 45cm air gap, eh which then extends the wall mount arm perhaps even further than the stated 45cms (which then seems a bit untenable).

[@kiritsi100]

@@dreamcat4 Adam A7X speakers. Front ported. I do still find the bass being heavier if positioned closer to the wall. Which is why I pull them away to get a truer response.

[@dreamcat4]

agreed @@kiritsi100 - mine here are the kali lp6s. so are generally similar in terms of being basically another front ported design. what is nice about 50cms is that it's probably enough gap to also fit behing the speaker some rockwool (or similar material). with the aim for damping a bit any back wall reflections lower freqs. at least to temporarily put some behind. and to some a/b test. to see if there is any noticable difference. This is something else, heard it from acoustics insider youtube.

[@wikkidperson]

This has got me messing with my speaker angle. Here I was worried that because the tweeters were about half a foot to a foot higher than my ears, that they were placed wrongly. (I’m experimenting with turning them “out” more to get more stereo separation. When compared to headphone mixes, my shakers and tambourines keep vanishing.)

[@dreamcat4]

actually i still did not quite understand the ideal tweeted height placement. if they must be level with the ears. or if they should be flying past above the ears. but maybe i will experiment a bit with that now. and try out some higher speaker placement. it's difficult for me to understand what he meant without a diagram. maybe also some clearer explans, just in terms of height. but i understood a majority the other stuff... so if you could just help explain what he was saying the speaker height in the vertical plane? would be so grateful!

[@wikkidperson]

@@dreamcat4 He disagreed with the notion that tweeters go at ear height, or converge at the tip of your nose. So, up and past.

[@dreamcat4]

@@wikkidperson yeah thanks for confirming this. I suppose then... it's a similar underlying mechanism / reasoning at work then. Especially for the way you put it: that the way the sound is spreading conically out. Or "spilling out". Then he is like: well if it happens across the X axis. Then it happens (similar amount) along the Y (vertical) axis. What maybe I got confused is because when i look at my monitors here, the tweeter has that sort of a "beam forming" pin cushion shape around the tweeter orafice. Into which the tweeter itself is inset. And these "sound shaping" or "beam forming" type of contours do not in fact seem to be omnidirectional? Is that the correct word? But instead they are stretched wider more in the x sideways direction, than the up-down vertical. So are more like a squashed shape. That is rectangular aspect ratio in it's general perimiter footprint. Then suggesting... IDK what! But that is the place just where i got confused a bit. When looking at my tweeters here. That they would try to shape the direction being thrown the sound non-spherically into the room. Perhaps this means it depends partially on these more modern tweeter / horn design. Or perhaps it just means they can still be position "higher up a bit". I.e. above the horizontal plane of the ears. However maybe not "as much" as the side to side beam width. But i'm just guessing here! Would love the topic to be brought back on another occasion. But for now, this already seems good enough to experiment with. And start playing around. To be frank, another reason why I am focussed here is also because once you get the masonary drill bit out, and start drilling the holes in the walls... then you want it to be at the correct height! Otherwise will probably end up with quite a few unnecessary holes in the walls. Heehee

[@scottakam]

Great stuff.

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much

[@JuddLofthouse]

Great post I have a guitar 2-12 cab about 10ft away I have it horizontal on the floor(at home) but could lift it up to ear level what do you think my friend ?

[@thechrisricci]

Warren, what should I do If I have the equipment to record bands but I don't have a proper space?

[@treborretlaw]

very wise words!

[@Producelikeapro]

Thanks ever so much

[@gooneybird808]

So good!

[@pml394]

Dynaudio Bm6 - the passive version with 2 x 130 watt Hafler power amp 230 P - used it for many years and love it, but I hate my room at 200-300 HZ

[@cowabungaw9958]

I've always been intrigued by how various speakers, placement & room treatment can alter the listening experience. Not much love for near field due to bass Hz wavelength limitations. Regarding Channel/stereo separation, is there a technique which can verify setup is optimal? Room treatment plays a key role in room time domain, resonance etc

[@paulallen6849]

Brilliant, thanks for this, really helpful. Sound advice!

[@Producelikeapro]

Glad it was helpful!

[@lars1914]

Eve Audio SC207,marvelous sound for the price.

[@ZackMester]

When they are discussing tweeter angle (at 2:24), are they discussing vertical or horizontal tweeter angle? I believe later in the video he says he prefers the speakers flat (vertical angle) on stands so I’m currently thinking he means the horizontal angle for when you should be “staring” at the speaker whence “you’re not doing anything”

[@AirArtStudiosOfficial]

Thank you

[@PooNinja]

Location location location!

[@davidvochocjr1005]

Hi guys, thanks for another great session. What about age factor? How to deal with that? E.g I have fancy 16k boost on my Tegeler Creme, but last week I discovered with horror that I don’t hear 16k anymore 😮

[@Projacked1]

Fully agreed on DSP adjusted monitors....you don't need them.

[@monst3rmachin3productions12]

Really appreciate how difficult this must've been to keep Steven on topic. lol There were some strong opinions that aren't necessarily truths, because we don't know it all and it's still an art form with many different perspectives, but overall there were definitely some bits of wisdom here. Great interview, even with all of the edits. 🤣 From my own experience, I've never liked the 60 degree equilateral pattern some people suggest for speaker placement. I've always intuitively used a wider angle because it sounded better, so lesson ultimately is trust your ears.