Getting started with Battery 2.0. It is so much work... 🍺

This is large, this is big, this is HUGE! This morning we're going for a drive to pick up more material for your battery shelve. Also, there was a box at the front gate containing the new Noark circuit breakers. Wow, they look massive! We take a closer look and start preparing the aluminium hull around the shelve.
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[@Josh-b3c]

Make sure to insulate the bottom of the cells the case is connected

[@jadu79]

I thought the same thing to use MDF / HDF board with thickness 3mm or thicker or use cutting board (those that are 1-3mm and flexible) should you break both the positive and negative side or just one? and have you intended to use reached to improve the contact as a grease and which also prevents oxidation

[@SkypowerwithKarl]

Absolutely!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

My cells are all isolated at the bottom. Not sure which ones you have?

[@SkypowerwithKarl]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia There are some that have no vinyl skin on the bottom. I know, cheap right? But you always want to check all of them on the bottom. Under the vinyl skin there’s the aluminum shell that normally has a negative potential.

[@agustinrogberg6124]

I suggest a rubber between cells and shelf just in case insolation fail

[@nigelcharles511]

If the cells are to sit directly on the aluminium shelves be very careful. With the cells connected in series any break in the blue plastic on the underside of two cells will risk a short out between cells. I nearly fell into this trap as my cell supplier did not insulate the cell undersides. I would suggest using some form of extra insulation layer added between shelves and cells would be sensible.

[@sreekumarUSA]

Nigel you spoke my mind. Thanks for the caution. FYI; I used 25mm Redwood planks, at the bottom of the Battery compartment. The RW planks are separated by 12mm gap for the free flow of ventilation. But the design varies from people to people. Thanks for the caution for Andy and others.

[@nigelcharles511]

Originally I had planned to put the battery pack directly on an aluminium sheet with heat pads underneath for use during winter conditions. Unlike Andy some of us have to allow for low ambient temperatures. The sheet will even out the heat distribution but I need to guard against heat insulation between the aluminium and the cells. For the moment I have covered the aluminium with a thin self adhesive wrapping. This effectively double insulates electrically but hopefully still allows some heat transmission. My battery box (a small camping trailer to allow portability) is well insulated. Although heat transmission (when required) might be impeded slightly by the wrapping, the surrounding insulation will make sure that the heat gets to the cells eventually. For hot weather the trailer has a lifting cover to allow airflow but these cells don't seem to heat up much unless they are charged/discharged at very high currents.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Mine are fully insulated underneath.

[@nigelcharles511]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Whilst it takes a pair of cells to have insulation breakdown to cause a short, having insulated the bottom of my cells I still decided to create an extra insulation layer on the aluminium sheet. The cell insulation isn't very thick. A short in these circumstances doesn't bear thinking about.

[@ebenwaterman5858]

Actually the M10 terminals will allow a bolt capable of producing much more compression force on the terminal/buss bar interface and over a larger circumference hole. Your reasoning may be imperfect. Go with the 8. :)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Good point!

[@millzee60]

I'd seen a comment elsewhere that you should place extra insulation between cells when compressing them to ensure they don't make any electrical contact. I was highly sceptical that the aluminium case was connected to either terminal. But I've just measured mine and the case is very much -ve. So insulating the bottoms will be essential.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I'm not going to compress the cells.

[@millzee60]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Understood but you shouldn't rely on the cell's plastic wrap to insulate it from your metal shelf. IMO.

[@chrislant4829]

So hot here in UK. My batteries are full and I may have to go in the pool to cool down,and maybe later find some frogs to film lol

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Hahaha, just wait until next week when it's cold and raining again over there 😂

[@trevornelmes9331]

I would still place a physical separation, not air, around the busbars. You can buy 10mm thick cutting boards in coloured sets from Amazon. Something like that material. The breakers, at least in the UK, have to be in (normally IP65) enclosures.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I know, many would probably isolate the gap but it's not necessary, the shelves won't move.

[@uziman3800]

The bigger bolt on your lug will give you greater contact pressure. The contact area does not matter. But M10 is overkill, M8 would be the one I would go with.

[@SylwerDragon]

Nice video. It looks good. I have only few suggestions 1. Don't take out those support bracket n bottom part of shelfs ..i would not remove them..it make shelf stronger and you need it..aluminium is not all that is needed 2. Use some kind of protection for those bus bars (even one buss bar usually + is ok ) so there is no accident touch.. screw might fall down..or what ever.. 3. place some protection(not conductive take or something similar) below those breakers ..in case one contact will get loose there is no way it will touch AL shelf .. 4. Keep up hard work.. i'm doing similar project myself...new inverter, charger and cables coming..so a lot of work is waiting for myself as well :)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you!

[@magicmanspaz]

I have a 250a zjbeny and yeh its massive lol. As for your lugs they look like cheap ebay thin pressed tube ones. For such a decent batery bank i would be sourcing some decent branded lugs like Cabac for example as they are twice as thick as the cheapies. I have tossed all my cheap lugs and only use decent ones now days. I would still insulate around the busbar cut out JUST incase. its $1 worth of hose or rubber and saves a potential short if something fell down there as i have learn't never assume that something will be fine lol.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yep, I get the proper lugs from a Supplier at the Sunshine coast. They are twice as thick as the eBay ones. 💪 I looked at the ZJbeny breakers but apparently they don't come with any accessories like shunt trips or aux switches. And the breaking capacity was 'only' 15kA. Especially for the large 250A breaker I wanted a bit more.

[@andrewradford3953]

Some vinyl floor offcuts might be handy to insulate top and bottom of the aluminium. Damn it looks good with the aluminium shelves and tinned bus bars! Imagine getting the shelf structure pieces chromed, and glass doors and panels fitted all round..

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

plus LED lights?

[@luisaviles6066]

Nice layout for your battery 2.0.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you.

[@james10739]

Around the busbars I'd put something one there maybe like car door edge protector but I don't know if it opens up that wide but I'm just nervous being pretty close if something is dropped it might help

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

For what? Peace of mind? Nothing can be dropped as the shelve will be fully enclosed.

[@hassaneinj.hnoosh6536]

Good luck

[@AveRage_Joe]

That shelf/cabinet is looking really nice meow!!!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks Joe. Where do you put yours?

[@dtec30]

thats ok andy slow and steady and it will be done in no time and done right

[@christelting1359]

Not worried about the shelves conducting? I'd insulate the shelf tops. Also did you do any research on air arcing between the bars themselves? You could then potentially have arcing from bar to shelf and back to bar. Probably more than fine with the finger distance but something to research. I'd have the bus bars further apart to make it virtually impossible to short by any metal tool.

[@brucehorgan8368]

Andy, great solution of 5mm aluminium shelf (and as mentioned additional insulation a must) for battery's and m6 lug with larger palm much better. Idea for mounting MCCBs, a horizontal top hat behind larger cutout to allow allow mounting MCCB to be fixed from the outside of this panel with a small from flat escutcheon screwed to outside. Will give you a lot of latitude for accuracy etc. Can do a sketch for you. Cheers Bruce

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you Bruce.

[@bentleyjarrard885]

That battery shelf/rack is looking nice with all the aluminum panels, now I want to do one myself. Its kind of funny, if you add up all the materials, labor time for design, picking stuff up, fabrication, and the cost of all the tools, its probably about the same price as an EG4 modular system from Signature Solar. It must be that DIYers like us put a high value on unnecessary hard work, frustration, cuts & bruises, frequent swearing and the occasional fail. LOL

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

They wanted over 3K for a cabinet which can hold that amount of cells. I looked into these options before I went to Bunnings 😉

[@wenhaowong5549]

make sure the battery bottom is insulated, the battery casing itself is conductive

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

My cells are isolated at the bottom. Not sure which ones you use?

[@wenhaowong5549]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I using lishen 202ah, the cell wrapping is not fully covered at the bottom, so if the surface is metal the current flow through the metal although the current is not huge due to high resistance.

[@DavidLouthan]

3 battery banks ,wait I thought it was 2 .. uh oh I'm a little behind.. catching up now 🏃‍♂️

[@Lifestoquick]

I may be wrong, but Im thinking the fault break current is listed for the rated voltage for using 1 or 2 poles. Both breakers shown have identical labels. And each pole is rated as listed in the bottom portion of the breakers. Both poles are 250A & for the other breaker both poles handle 100A.

[@Lifestoquick]

No, you've got it, I didn't listen you did mention voltage.

[@cncdavenz]

Looking good, When I cut holes in panels I use masking tape to stop marking the surface. Its also helps when setting out as you can make notes on the tape like don't F*** up. You will soon have a TOWER OF POWER. Cheers Dave.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I drilled and sawed from the back, so scratches won't matter ;) The Tower of Power 🤔

[@martehoudesheldt5885]

as polly said "sag no more" 👍👍 take the extra braces and use them on the wood shelf (no waist) and i hope you left room for the wires to come in and out of the breakers. as for keeping stuff out of the terms on the breakers ; take some foam (like pipe foam) and put in holes to keep the frogs out (and other stuff) lookin good.

[@jws3925]

Hey Andy, your steering wheel is on the wrong side. You better fix that!!!

[@henvan8737]

The peddles are on the wrong side as well.

[@excillisbank2611]

Cette étagère de batterie va être superbe.

[@williamjamesenkerwitz9495]

Man it's looking good and I think I heard Freddy frog best wishes to you from South Africa

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

All the Freddy's are coming back soon. I can make dedicated videos about frogs only 🐸

[@GoatZilla]

For holes like that I would consider a router. If you have 1 shape then make a template. It is possble.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, I know, it would be too much for just these 4 holes...

[@michaelmeola9652]

i have a sheet of 6mm villaboard under my batteries to insulate from the steel shelf

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

OK, the cells are isolated form the bottom but some extra material... 🤔

[@daskasspatzle2396]

Oh, you are the file manager now... For just a few dollars, i would have done it too... Looks awesome :-)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It was than a few $$$ for the metal shelves but it's a one of hopefully.

[@deltoncbaker]

You should add plastic or rubber edging to the aluminum shelving near the buss bars. When current is flowing a magnetic field will attract to the shelving. Mostly this not be a problem, but in rare cases (like when the humidity goes below 20% or during thunderstorms) current could jump the gap if is uninsulated. To stop it I used RTV electrical silicone and split spiral plastic conduit. (Like the kind used in automotive cable harness)

[@edc1569]

50v isn’t jumping a finger width gap

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I will add some insulation under the cells, that's probably it. The shelves won't move as I have made them larger as the wooden shelves were.

[@solexxx8588]

For the rice of the aluminum you could have doubled your battery capacity. Using an electrical conductor as a shelf means that if you have a catastrophic electrical failure of one battery they all will ark and fail. Put an electrical insulator between the batteries and the aluminum.

[@JungleJargon]

I got 50 amps from my system (solar array) and I was overwhelmed.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I would be too!

[@dtec30]

also thinking about a ryobi power filer or baring that you can get an attachment for the reciprocating saw

[@divlles]

I would use some plastic cutting board to go around the holes where the busbars go through just as an extra insulator to keep anything from Rolling across and shorting out between the shelf and both rails maybe use one of them flexible cutting boards and make it a little sleeve kind of tube that goes just off maybe a millimeter two on either side of the shelf so that way in case anything little roll around get dropped slide across it can't directly leading from the Shelf to the bus bar on both of them at the same time or at least not very easily

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The shelves won't move. there is no way that anything could touch.

[@divlles]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia the self may not but if something were to fall on yhe shelf is all

[@Josh-b3c]

I don't know if anyone saw it but you can now buy 420 ah lithium iron phosphate cells also 380ah too now

[@adon8672]

Any link please?

[@sjdtmv]

Aluminium shelving has a potential to create a short if something goes wrong, I went for 17mm Form Ply from Bunning, I would shiver if I has used aluminium for my LTO bank backing, so much ......... CURRENT .......

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

All battery enclosures are made of metal. It's just about the design.

[@sjdtmv]

I love your Telsa Ute, I have a i30 version

[@trevornelmes9331]

When you fit the shunt accessory in those breakers, how will you trigger the shunt. Let's assume the MPPT fails and allows a full high voltage directly through to the charge cables, you want those breakers to trip, yes?

[@dredre9484]

Just a idea put some led lighting undershelf so you got two hands when working on battery

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Someone said this before...

[@ianpope7061]

Have you considered buying Server Rack packs? They seem to be coming down in price, are serviceable and so much easier/ Just wondering.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

No, I didn't consider them. This is a DIY channel, so not a big fan of these plug'n play batteries. What should I show, what would we learn??? 🤷‍♂️

[@KevIsOffGrid]

Sorry I cost you a few dollars saying "how much will it sag in 5 years" ...... but put the wood, or other insulator under the cells.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Was a good investment, thanks for the brain trigger.

[@keyem4504]

All that metal around the batteries and the busbars makes me nervous. Just lifting a floor up on one side could short the busbars. Also just lifting up a cell might bring it's contacts in contact with the shelf above. And several people already talked about the danger of a damaged heat shrink around a cell..... I'd feel much better with a wooden construction, even though the thing you are building looks great.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

You cannot lift the floors once the batteries are in place.

[@KevIsOffGrid]

Leave the inverter in the box, move the MPPT to the shelves? or to the outside ....

[@John-gm8ty]

I waved as you passed by inala

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Saw you 😉

[@sreekumarUSA]

071721/1738h PST 🇺🇸 071821/1038h Brisbane 🇦🇺 Thanks for the presentation and the ongoing saga of your final goal. I’m not too surprised at your endeavor, because I have endured situations like yours and enjoyed the fruit of the success. The 5mm Aluminium plates ! Sturdy, strong and durable. I’m kinda perturbed at the close proximity of the huge bus bars and the Al plates, though. Well, you are the Master… At least, you have the Oettinger, to keep your spirits high! Stay safe and 73s…

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The shelves won't move any more. Especially not if the batteries are in place. the shelve would need to touch both bus bars at the same time which is even more unlikely. I'll see how I go...

[@sreekumarUSA]

Danke, Herr Andy. Ich versatehe.

[@Sylvan_dB]

Are those 6mm aluminum shelves? 8mm? 🤑Wow.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

5mm the floors are, the side panels are 3mm.

[@geoffreylohff3876]

As often as you are moving stuff w/ that Tesla, you need their "truck"... 😁

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

coming...

[@Shep5847]

Awesome fabrication skills as always! I’m curious why you chose to put the breakers in the end panel. Why is that location better than say mounting the breakers for each pack horizontally to a bracket and mounting it on the front side of each shelf slightly recessed inside of the shelving brace? Wouldn’t having them on the side panel make it easier for them to get bumped by something and shut off accidentally?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yeah, that was kind of my idea, they should be accessible but not too much in the way. I also want the front panels to be removable to access the batteries and with a breaker at the front, that would mean longer cables or a separate fixed panel and a split.

[@Shep5847]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I can see your point, but at 48v, is a few more inches in cable length really going to matter enough to make it a concern? Can you not notch around the breaker if it were on the front panel? Or are you trying to make it air tight?

[@carlosgaspar74]

So many people saying you must how should I say... Rubberise/Condomise your "junk"... 😂😂😂😂 Not the same bright feeling, not as clean, but still, in some applications/situations better safe than sorry. I see you've invested yourself in this project!!! 😲 You're going deep!!! If the idea was "free/cheap charging" something went beyond that!😂

[@davidkettell6236]

Only an Aussie could complain about 62 degrees f and light rain in the middle of winter ? in Ohio we have 72 degrees f and thunderstorms in the middle of summer.

[@davidbon4707]

Hi Andy, do you know if the shunt trip option part (for the Noark) is available anywhere? Enjoying your work, I am 300klm north of you.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you, David. I bought my breakers at Tro-Pacific (www.tro-pacific.com/). They organised the aux contact as well, so get in contact with them, they are helpful.

[@dig1035]

Beautiful shelves but conductive?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

As all metal enclosures are, yes.

[@michaelmeola9652]

you should of mounted the cbs inside and made a door less work

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It's definitely not less work as I would have to make a mount for the breakers, a bracket or angle holder type thingy. And the door, hinges... I've build switchboards before, it's a lot of work. I also wanted to make sure the 250A breaker is accessible from the outside so the whole battery can be disconnected without problems. This is also a requirement for the main breaker/switch.

[@JeremyAkersInAustin]

Did you say three batteries? Did I miss something? I knew you were building a 2nd battery (Battery 2.0) but I don't recall you mentioning a third?

[@jeffmaynard8371]

Andy, Frist let me start by saying I enjoy watch your channel. I am interested in these breakers. the big problem is I can not seem to find them here in the great USA. I tried to contact them directly but they have a fire wall that keep me from sending a email. Why don't you become a seller for them and I'll send you some business.

[@jjromba]

Wennde in der Videobeschreibung mit # arbeitest muss alles zusammenhängend sein sobald.,- mit drin is zeigt der dit oben nicht an

[@1981dasimpson]

is the dc measurement the shunt ? im traying to work out how it is measuring the dc as i would of thoght dc would also show solar input if it was the shunt little confused on that reading

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The shunt will be between the batteries and everything else. Same like now.

[@1981dasimpson]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia yeah i understand that part from you videos the but i am unsure of is the dc loads whats reads them or does the software calulate whats been drawn and charged then whats un accounted for it puts as dc loads ?

[@kevinroberts781]

You're driving on the wrong side of the damn road!!!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

😬

[@LeonHoward]

thanks for sharing! how did you size your DC braker? i will build a 48V system with 304ah cells, my inverter is an mppsolar with 6.5kw inverter 120V.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

OK, so roughly you do 6500W / 48V = 135A So if you go with a 150A breaker you'll be fine. Unless the inverter can output more and you regularly hit this peak power, you should go with a 175A or even 200A breaker.

[@LeonHoward]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia thank you for your reply and your help!

[@thomaskissane691]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia So if I have 2 Solark 15ks that each have 12kw (24K total) each inverter capacity and four 48 volt battery banks 304ah(64KWHs). How would you size those breakers on each bank and the main for the 4 banks. Bank 24000/4/48 = 125 amp ? Main 24000/48 = 500 amp ?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@thomaskissane691 I would use the peak power for the calculation: 30.000W/48V=625A 30.000W/48V/4=156A So, 700A and 200A I would choose, depending on availability. 630A is the largest I have seen so far. This all depends on the used cable sizes of course.

[@rmdjapri]

Hi Andy, can you point me where I can buy those noark mccb online in Australia that can ship overseas? I tried contact several online store but they can't ship it. thank you.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Not sure if the will ship to you overseas from here. But Noark is a worldwide company so you should be able to find a distributor on their website maybe. I bought mine here: www.tro-pacific.com/products/noark-250a-2-pole-1000vdc-mccb-9md2b

[@rmdjapri]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I have asked them, and they don't ship it overseas. thank you for the information. 🙏🏼

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Try to contact them directly and ask where your you can buy them in you country: www.noark-electric.eu/en

[@dig1035]

Why do you need 550 amps of circuit breaker? Lightening? Expensive disconnect?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It's a 250A breaker for the whole cabinet.

[@JungleJargon]

All you need is an excessive amount of solar panels. Do they have sunny days in Europe? 😄 ( Don’t mind me. I’m just a somewhat uninformed American.) Is Brisbane Australia?

[@davidkettell6236]

on occasion. i remember that in England in 1976 it did not rain for 3 months. this was unheard of in history. records that went back many hundreds of years were broken. However no one blamed global warming because then like now it does not exist.

[@JungleJargon]

@@davidkettell6236 🤣😂 All anyone needs to do is to plant 🌱 more trees 🌲 to give us more oxygen!

[@davidkettell6236]

@@JungleJargon i have planted 40 trees on my 2 plus acres and believe me they are a pain in the ass to mow around

[@JungleJargon]

@@davidkettell6236 My trees plant themselves and I don't have to mow around them. 😄 They just get thicker and thicker. I do a lot of mowing though so I know what you mean.

[@Lifestoquick]

@@davidkettell6236 Very true

[@jjromba]

Was bei Sammelschienen och gut ist sind Sammelschienenklemmen denn bracht man dat Cu nicht durchbohren

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

🤔

[@jjromba]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Diese meinte ich, gibts in diversen Größen

[@philiphales9993]

: ) cool . thanks ... for me , your videos are interesting because they point to what might be an ideal setup if money were no object . off grid house / car / life - requiring minimal ( preferably NO ) engagement with damaging industries is the grail . please don't gloss over the prices of stuff - they matter !.. and an awareness of environmental impacts would , I think raise the relevance of your channel . just sayin' ...

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks for your comment. That is great thinking and totally agree with you. I rather spend more money on things which last and also be as sustainable as possible which is very hard in a carbon fuelled economy.

[@dig1035]

What is your peak production?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

4.1kWp at the moment.

[@TheChrisco1969]

Andy what capacity will you be building to with all those shelves?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Around 45kWh for this shelve. I have two battery banks with 15kWh each so far.

[@TheChrisco1969]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia by the way just tried the German beer. Very nice and 500ml too

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@TheChrisco1969 nice! 🍻

[@stephsoltesz6731]

MDF Battery Shelves went - no humidity swelling guaranteed now. Have you considered child/pet safety ? And Mouse Prevention as well ? nothing a little clear acrylic can't fix.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That's what all the sheets are for. The shelve will be fully covered.

[@pmacgowan]

Why are your diving my car? ... I also have a white m3 :-) ... Its all right leave your $ on the fridge

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Oh, welcome to the club. So far, everything fitted inside. I made the aluminium shop cut it the way so it fitted between the seats 😉

[@markmeyer9571]

Bro… Please…. You’re driving on the wrong side of the road mate!!!!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

😬 they all do, down here. So weird!

[@jiefang11]

Where are you, Sir?

[@Josh-b3c]

Brisbane Australia

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Somewhat...

[@jiefang11]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia i asked because you have some german accent, but you drive at the left side. so sorry for my curiosity ,,

[@DIYPunkyBrew]

U might wanna hide ur mobile number on ur invoice

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Call me ☎