5*→9* Mouthpiece Tip Opening Shootout (With Jim Cheek from sax.co.uk)

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Instantly up your saxophone game with this free masterclass▶️ www.getyoursaxtogether.com/masterclass

[@edwardkosiewicz4435]

my choice would be your playing 7*

[@kimberleygoodings1676]

Hi my father just passed who was a jazz and big band sax player and raising funds, do you know the best place to sell some mouthpieces, boxes of unopened reeds and so much jazz sheet music , its a tragedy to bin them cause i just dont know where we could sell them

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

@@kimberleygoodings1676 sorry I’m not sure. Try sax.Co.uk? Sorry to hear your news.

[@grantkoeller8911]

Playing sax 50 years now, 23 years with USAF bands (age 60). I currently play, on tenor, a hard rubber Otto Link Tone Edge 8 slant signature reissue from 2008. Vandoren Green box Java 3.5, 1952 Selmer Super Balanced Action. Selmer 2 screw brass (Made in France) ligature.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Cool.

[@grantkoeller8911]

Ideally, you would use different strength reeds for different tip openings.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Yup of course.

[@HB-ve4wi]

I think the 9* is worth sticking with for a while. It's really singing!

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@Radjammin]

Great Video guys, a rare tip opening comparison on the same mouthpiece. Very educational.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@StephenB_LE9]

Interesting - you talked about aliasing, but ( and it may be a consequence of compression ) you didn’t explore the dynamics, pp to ff and say how you have to adjust. How easy is a pp bottom Bb on 5* vs 9* ? Ditto pp on top F# and altissimo with different tip openings.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Fair point. Maybe next time.

[@eriksax]

The beauty of the sound on 7.5 and 8.5 is not duplicated when playing with the extreme openings at each end. Additionally, the loss of intonation control at the extreme end, 9.5, is only masked when playing special effects.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Sure thing.

[@rd40082]

Really interesting hear how the volume of the sound changes

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Sure.

[@grantkoeller8911]

As a listener, I feel your absolute best sound for me was the 8* then the 7*, then the 9*, then the 6* and last was the 5*

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@fabricecarrere6107]

absolutely right ..... but would have needed a strength reed change to appreciate the 9* ( 2,5 S or M)

[@morrischoo9717]

This is a great piece of information. Using a V16M6 now on alto. And a Meyer hard Rubber 6m on tenor. May Go 7 on the Yana A902 and 7 on the yts61. Like the openness of larger, but still researching for a darker sound for the 61. And a powerfull bottom with help in altissimo. It's work dialing in a tone..

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@lisawanderess]

I get misty watching this! I think with tip size it’s whatever you get used to as you said. I started with a 5, then tried several different mp’s including the Jody Jazz HR 7, but I found that mouthpiece just too big in my mouth, so went to David Zagars because I liked the narrower build, then decided I wanted to try metal so went for a Theo Wanne Durga 8* and found I needed a softer reed so use Legere Signature 2.25. Tried to use a 2.5 once when they’d sold out of 2.25s and ooosh! Such hard work on the embouchure!!! I gave up after a few minutes! Now I’m so used to my 8* I feel way too restricted and blocked on my mp’s with smaller tips, so yeah, I think the result of your experiment is that you play best on what you’re used to playing so the 8 sounded best to me!

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@martyg374]

I think it matters more to the player than the listener. I started on 5 as a teenager, a 6 in college, and now am an 8 guy on sop, alto, tenor. Reed really should be changed on different facings.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@paintingwithatwistfriendsw392]

I will be traveling to London on August 30 and visiting this store is on my bucket list!

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Nice!

[@TinelCH]

Jim looks like he is contemplating life choices haha

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

🤣

[@diegojorge9659]

Well is not about about tip opening only, what about facing length, chamber shape, baffle, thickness of the rails. Even I woudl say than the king of curve every pierce has and the eveness of beach fracking curve. Any how really interesting video. Thanks so much guys.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Of course, you’re right.

[@bobblues1158]

I would suggest a harder reed for the smaller openings and a softer reed for the more open mouthpieces.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@JohnVaeth-gs3oe]

I love this video! But it did get me thinking, 99% of lay listeners could never hear the difference between any of these mouthpieces. So, it is a mental benefit for the player to play the mouthpiece that he, or she is most comfortable with maintaining the realization that your audience will not care. However, that comfort level could make you a more confident, expressive, and perhaps even more risk taking performer.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@geoffcsax]

Good idea, tells something we've always wondered about and confirms some of our thoughts. I was interested to see the big jump in volume from 5* - 6*, I wonder if it's the same for other 'pieces.

[@emusqueak]

Yes definitely - game changer if you’re playing lead alto/tenor or even Bari in a big band. I went from 6 to 8/9, athough like Jamie my 9 is real effort to play for long periods!!

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

I suspect yes.

[@olebirgerpedersen]

To me the 8 star sounds the best. More round and very good in the low and second registre. And has a good security in high notes. No discussion !

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@richardolson8651]

I 've been working wit a set up that's hard for me to play. Stiffer reed and wider tip opening. What a work out. It takes a ton more air and works on my lip. I don't no if its helping. Anybody tried this. It's a workout for sure. Thanks Dick

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Sounds like you’re working too hard to me. Try a softer reed.

[@grantkoeller8911]

The reed and the mouthpiece facing curve must work together. Like gears on a 10 speed bike. you need to shift to an easier gear. Like Jamie said, softer reed

[@richardolson8651]

@@grantkoeller8911 Thanks. Makes sense.

[@johnmacneill9005]

Thanks for the video, it's a rare occasion when I have a bunch of mouthpieces to play through and compare. Would you consider doing a video on common issues (like squeaks, split notes, etc) and how they can be addressed with tip opening and/or reed strength?

[@Osnosis]

And the funky 2nd octave G#!

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Great suggestion!

[@marcosax5555]

Just what I needed. I am in the middle of a search for a new mouthpiece for my soprano!

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@SaxWithShad]

It’s the *5 the tone colors are so subtle and nice there

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Thanks! 🙏

[@grantwickens9274]

Hi Jim I noticed you added a volume graphic at the end of this video, would it be possible to include a sound wave graphic to indicate to us what you are describing when you talk about dark and bright sounds etc?. This may help us to grasp the subtle differences when you are compairing saxophones as well as mouthpieces too.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

It doesn’t really work like that grant. You can’t tell EQ by looking at a sound wave. Maybe a spectrograph.

[@lyntedrockley7295]

Thats a great resource for comparing. Thanks Jamie. As you say all with the same reed. But its really the tip opening AND the reed strength that makes the 'ideal' combo for each player. A large opening and a soft reed compared to a small with hard reed would be a good comparison. Then theres the lay, short or long to allow the reed to flex. I know, this would take ages to do and be a faff in the shop but maybe something to consider for the future. Cannonball famously didn't use a hard reed. Perhaps a possible video might be a look at a number of famous player's setups.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

All true.

[@sax_n_axe]

That 6* growl @4:53ish sounds so amazing !!!!!! I hear a lot more “rumble” with the 6*

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@dennis524]

Wouild you think if you raised the reed strength on the 5* and 6* it would correlate with the 3M on the larger pieces as far as overall sound and playability? Thanks.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

That’s the received wisdom, yes.

[@brianbillings6815]

Great video! I could definitely hear what you were hearing, volume and spread. Seems to me that a good bit of the choice comes down to one's sound concept. The larger tip openings may allow more interpretation but I have never cared for the reediness and lack of focus that comes through listening to a player with a really large opening. Ultimately, much is preference. Thanks again!

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@dizgil6881]

thanks for the info! ive played trumpet for a few years but been learning tenor sax for a couple months now. Didn't have many options to pick a first setup from, and ended up with a size 8.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

8 is wide for a beginner. At least make sure you’re using quite a soft reed.

[@dizgil6881]

@@GetYourSaxTogether Think I wrote that comment in a moment of learners cope lol. Thanks for replying Jamie, I do use 2.5 and at least it makes me use a lot of air. Will probably try a yamaha 4c or something soon to check out the difference in air.

[@patrickkelcey2435]

Dude listen up My teacher ran his own big bands for decades... What did he run... A Meyer 5... Maybe 6 but not really nessecary. The big openings ONLY started with the wankers who couldn't play in the 60's... ALL of your sound comes from your vocal tract.... that includes dynamics... Scott Paddock (I think that's how it's spelt) has an excellent video on focusing your sound. Hunt it up a check it out. It's vastly different to the trumpet... So much of what we do comes from within...

[@dizgil6881]

@@patrickkelcey2435 so since posting that comment i ordered a smaller mouthpiece which arrived today... rico graftonite A5 and fobes debut. both are way smaller tip opening. But the biggest difference in effort and sound came from the 2nd thing i ordered. Legere 2.5 and 2.25. Being a complete noob and no teacher (yet) ive been using java green 2.5. Honestly man, although i could only try them for like 5 minutes, even with the drake 8 its a world of difference... Im thinking a lot of the struggles have come from not knowing how to maintain cane reeds. Ill probably stick with the smaller tips but still, im probably never going back to cane reeds lol... and hey! today its 2 months since getting the sax so still only beginning! this will probably be a huge change, and after work ill test all combinations.

[@aljerones99]

Thanks for sharing this experiment Jamie. It is very useful and informative. I saw a comment about changing the reed strength but I'm glad that all you did was to change one variable only (the tip opening). When too many things are changed, the experiment is not well controlled and the outcome is hard to assess. I saw another comment asking about the chamber and baffle. That was a useful query, I think. Hopefully, those other variables were the same (or close) across the mouthpieces to make the comparisons fair. I used to blow on a (Meyer) 5* tip opening on my tenor and I find that it no longer can handle the amount of air I push through it. At first I went up in reed strength but it only helped for a while and my sound was sharper. I switched to and have been playing on a 7* much more comfortably with my old reed strength. I had the same experience with my alto. I play on a size 6* on my soprano ( 2.5 and 3 strength reeds) and am still experimenting with my embouchure on that instrument to play with a good, consistent sound.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Thanks for sharing Alex 👍

[@grantkoeller8911]

Tenor Madness

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

😊

[@patrickkelcey2435]

Vandoren V16... VERY VERSATILE... Good for a number of applications... Oh yeah... T7 thank you..

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

You're welcome!

[@CKM1109]

Video idea! Same mouthpiece different reed hardness

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Yup. Done. That was the next video.

[@jnk7237]

I would expect that the chamber and baffle are all pretty much the same on the mouthpieces you played since they were all the same model. What about the facing length? Did Jody Jazz increase it as the tip openings increased? Or did it stay constant?

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Have no idea about the facing length or curve I’m afraid.

[@ahorta63]

Very interesting video about it. thanks. I have a HR 7 but my current mouthpiece it's a Ted Klum Florida 7

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@instrumentalheadquarters7062]

Ive been playing on a 5* daddario select jazz marble for about a year now. I am getting to a limit on the sound I can push out of the horn. I have tried a few 6*s and they dont seem to be that much of a difference. I think I should get a 7. I need something that works for big band playing but also soloing and to play rip roaring solos.

[@mattrovine9644]

I went from a Daddario Jazz select in 5c to a 7c 56 from Wind City Wood winds. I needed to lower my reed strength from a 3 to a 2.5, but overall I like the 7 tip opening way more. I feel like I have more control over my sound and it's just way more fun to play on.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Yeh give it a whirl!

[@ronhowe5933]

Superb and very valuable demonstration. Tough call on a fresh reed as well though meister !

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Many thanks!

[@bsmith993]

Cool video. Exactly what I expected, but still so fascinating to hear and see it in action. I especially liked the volume comparison at the end. As a casual player who once played in a big band for a long time, I've always been a 7* kind of person. In times where one must "blend in" a bit more, like in concert band scenarios, would you see value in going with a smaller mouthpiece opening or just keeping the bigger piece controlled? i.e. As it comes to sound, intonation... is there an advantage in the smaller piece when that top end isn't needed? Thanks, Jamie!

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

I use one mouthpiece for everything but there’s value in the scenarios you mentioned for sure.

[@xxczerxx]

I always thought my sound "concept" would become more elaborate over time (bigger projection, scoops etc) so early on I played wider tips in anticipation of that, but I've seemingly shrunk my idea of what sounds good to a very "small" sound.... Art Pepper, Paul Desmond, Lee Konitz etc. Weird how that happens on saxophone, I wonder if it's something to do with your eventual "voice" matching your personality? I used to think this about guitar, I don't do flashy playing (even though I admire it etc) because I don't have a flashy persona.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Interesting theory 👍

[@randycrumbaugh4708]

So Jamie. What is the actual mouthpiece and reed setups you use on both your Tenor and your Alto Saxophones. I have been watching lots of your videos and I am really impressed by you sound. I already play a 7*DV on my Cannonball Tenor and I love have for a long time so that isnt going to change. But I just got an older vintage Buescher 400 Alto Sax and I am exploring mouthpieces for it. What are you playing on your Alto? Thank you!

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJWuaImalsmeoac

[@paoloalbano4690]

Jamie, great video!!! Everything is right! Btw I play a normal hr OL 10* and I do have the volume and some edge (3-3,5 Vandoren ZZ Jazz)

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@sfusa391]

I play a baritone sax… currently using a Yamaha 5C, but looking for something a bit louder… Any recommendations?

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

I play a Yanagisawa MP on bari. They’re good. Or JodyJazz.

[@stack80]

I got a question. I am 12 years old and I’ve played alto for 3.5 years. I’m playing on a Yamaha 4c. I want a syos because they look cool. But some people recommend Jody Jazz HR with 5 tip opening. Do you have any recommendations for me?

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

I would never recommend a mouthpiece to you cos it’s very personal. I like and own both. SYOS and a Jody though so they’re both great. Try them first.

[@youblumax]

@GetYourSaxTogether Very interest indeed to hear the difference of the various tip-openings. What I‘d like to see/hear/understand (as a Tenor-Sax beginner playing since nearly 2years - starting with 53…) is how to find the best combo - also in term of which reed-strength works out best for me.

[@frankversteeg8107]

I myself started at the age of 50, just 2 days ago turned 53, so my answer to you is....... experimenting, that way, you will find out what is best working for you, hope this helps.

[@youblumax]

@@frankversteeg8107 …yes - that’s what I do still 👍🏻

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Frank has good advice! 👍

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Great advice Frank 👍

[@frankversteeg8107]

@@GetYourSaxTogether thanks Freddy.. ehhh Jamie..😁

[@robstevens9590]

Nice comparison of different tip openings. Question: are the chambers and baffles basically the same on all these mouthpieces? I haven't been to London in decades, but if I do pass that way I would love to spend a day at the shop.

[@frankversteeg8107]

they where all the same type of mpc from Jody Jazz, so to my knowledge, only the tipopening differs

[@robstevens9590]

@@frankversteeg8107 That's my assumption as well. Just asked to make sure.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Honestly I’m not sure if any of that changes as the tip opens up.

[@DirtyRed]

Man I just went from a STM 404 7* to a Vandoren Ebonite V16 T9 Medium Chamber and that mf is kicking my a**. I purchased some rigotti gold 3M reeds thinking I could play them cause I'm good with all ddarrio reeds that are 3M on the 7* and boy was I mistaken. My embrouchure is taking beating. That box of reeds was too expensive is there any way I could get them to flex a bit more so they don't go to waste. I may need to drop all the way to a 2.5 or something. Got a show next month on the 21st and really wanted my sax to sing but I don't know if I'm gonna be ready at this rate. What do you guys suggest. Should I just stick with my 7* till after my show or should I stick it out with the T9 and just gitgud?

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Just use whatever is comfortable dude. No need to bust a gut. Keep those harder reeds in case you ever get a narrow tip mp. 👍🏻

[@halfabee]

I purchased two Legere Classic reeds (Number 2) one for Tenor Sax the other for Alto Sax. I have the same Otto Link Mouthpiece for Tenor and Alto. (Tip opening 7). All purchased from Sax UK. I can blow the Tenor Sax and obtain a reasonable sound. The Alto with it's Otto Link Mouthpiece (7 tip opening) and Legere Classic reed I can not obtain a sound from. I normally play a Select filed Jazz 2.0 reed. Or Vandoren V15 No 2. Any clues??

[@frankversteeg8107]

yep, i have a clue, lower the tip opening on the alto, had similar experience, and wonder, how i could possibly match the easyness of playing the tenor, but than on alto, and i didn't even use the same tip opening, still had to go lower on the alto

[@Osnosis]

Or use American Cut on the alto; I use Signature cut on tenor.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Sounds obvious but it’s likely your reed choice imho.

[@HahnJames]

My sound preferences varied depending upon what you were playing. I generally stayed with the 6*, 7* and 8* though. On my soprano, I use a Yamaha 5C and an OttoLink 6S which I really like.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@dcp8nts]

Hi Jamie! Great video, as usual. Did i miss it.... did you say what size you normally play? Thanks!

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

8*

[@dcp8nts]

@@GetYourSaxTogether Thanks Jamie! I'm still on a 5. I wonder if i should try a 6.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

@@dcp8nts suck it and see. Or blow it and see I guess!

[@thomasschneider1785]

Jamie can you look into tip opens for Soparno I have a Syos .070 I think but I am looking for a bigger sound, no bright, not nasally, nice sound Paul Desmond like Can you go to .080 or .090 Help ???

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

I guess just try them and see how you get on. Better for you to test it than me! 😊

[@thomasschneider1785]

Thanks but you didn’t answer the question for us out here Oh well laugh it off

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

@@thomasschneider1785 I didn’t answer the question because I can’t choose a mouthpiece for YOU my friend. You need to try these tip openings yourself and find a reed that matches and see if you like it. I could try a different tips on soprano but that’s not to say that’ll be right for you. 🤷🏻

[@Twinkie1960]

usin tha hr 7 for alto & tenor nowadayz….likewize for tha superjet set…

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍

[@samsanchez9526]

Very interesting video 👍

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@yvonnecamacho9902]

J J mouthpieces are notoriously inconsistently different from one another, despite what the designer says about them…..so were Otto Links since 1931 forward! (I’ve got Links from each decade to illustrate just that). If you’re a saxophonist, the “feel” of each mouthpiece as regards sound colors and intonation/response is talked about here……but not enough. Also Joe Allard taught me the vital role of an informed/enlightened/educated player in all of this, and you ain’t gonna make a quickie video of that!

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Hey Yvonne! Fair points. I don’t think anyone expects to learn mastery from a quick KZbin video - they shouldn’t anyway! However, maybe some people will feel SLIGHTLY more informed and educated. Not sure about enlightened! Thanks for watching.

[@MarkCasey-ub8sp]

I guess it's hard to look positive whilst thinking about the re-stocking fee and the disinfecting process ahead of him.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

🤣

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

🤣

[@jonathanbieniada1797]

What's the name of that first tune you played?

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Em, there was Tenor Madness, Misty, and some random stuff.

[@jonathanbieniada1797]

@@GetYourSaxTogether Thank you!!

[@johnvallis7223]

Great stuff, Jamie! I should know this by now, but what does the * (star) indicate? Cheers!

[@joseluishinojosa5964]

Hi John, I believe the * symbolizes a half step. So, a 7* tip opening would be a 7.5 tip opening.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Jose is correct. Thanks both!

[@paulgeiger6177]

It’s Freddy Kruegers Fingers! Great demo but. Little hard to hear on phone!

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

🤣

[@kscotthume]

Interesting, although you seem more comfortable (all around) on the 8*, your "growling" section sounded better on the 7*. KZbin sound, maybe...

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

YT does compress the audio, but with headphones you will hear more subtlety.

[@ruthwebber2803]

Night train blues forester

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

😎

[@emusqueak]

Game changer if your playing lead in a big band. Upgrade to 7/8 - even on Bari, a 7/8 is going to give you that oomph without the effort of a 6. Then there’s tone chambers and baffles too…..

[@Osnosis]

Playing lead tenor; need to both subtone and play under the lead slo AND play forcefully when soloing. Generally I am on 7*

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

Yeh it never ends.

[@grantkoeller8911]

Misty

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

😊

[@frankversteeg8107]

Jamie, Freddy Krueger, Anderson🤣😂

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

🤣

[@grantkoeller8911]

The Mouthpiece tip opening controls dynamic potential.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍🏻

[@simonsimon5124]

7 ok. 8 is too much.

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

👍🏻

[@MrNicoJac]

I'm pretty sure I have a 4* mouth piece though.... 🤔

[@GetYourSaxTogether]

🤔