GHOST OF TABOR'S DEVS had this to day...

[@baka030hydroid]

Back in the day, studios had this neat trick for supporting old multiplayer game servers It was called making more than one game

[@EGoat]

@@baka030hydroid this is their first game too. Honestly didn't like that they went the multiplayer route first.

[@baka030hydroid]

@EGoat Absolutely. It didn't give them any time, money, or experience to make and support a game as delicate as a dedicated multiplayer game

[@WILLTFM]

As a Founding Father owner and someone that has been part of the Tabor community for quite some time i have found myself stepping away from the game as there overall has not been enough done to it to bring me back and i understand what InFish is saying that over time to run the game is going to cost them to run the servers and the funding the made on the initial purchase will not be able to fund that forever and that is why the DLC's and other addons are needed but to call the community a liability is crazy

[@DIRECTEDBYH]

pls someone tell caveman studio to change the fucking sounddesign the weapons sound pathetic. I would love to play EZ

[@EGoat]

They just did! And also extending the game to the end of December

[@sc0tura]

I don't know anyone that wanted a separate PvE version, I know several people that wanted to do team training runs with team members and when told that would be run just on headsets without servers making it laggy everyone I know was fine with it. There are a bunch of PvP type games that have a huge player base for years, some even F2P, so that 100 hours comment doesn't track. It's my opinion that when GOT took off, rather than hire better people to make the game, or get better servers, or even save the money to cover future fees like ongoing server costs, CWS started to develop 2 more games. Now they have to focus on DLC over actual content or quality of life issues. I have spent the last 18 months saying 'GOT is running on standalone hardware so some issues are to be expected' until I played Exfil over the weekend. Still amazed by how good that game is. I think GOT has too much content and not enough money to rework it to a better game and CWS is trying to keep from drowning until their other games are ready. I plan to see what improvements they release on the 18th but there's a very good chance I'm done with Tabor, especially after Exfil is available.

[@EGoat]

I hope that the update is good, but imma wait until a year later to see if there's any progress that's worth while to me.

[@Megaman-gh9kp]

Devs just fucked up again and made passive aggressive comments on tanvarians stream at around the 55:00 mark. They're hiding posts of the clips on the subreddit so it'd be cool if you could make a video on this to bring more awareness!

[@EGoat]

@@Megaman-gh9kp Looking into t

[@Superpopfizz]

Thank you for spreading awareness for how insane this is

[@pagedknight5142]

the reason why they need us to pay, is because its run on a separate server, but all these dlcs are genuinally overwhelming, and seem like they just genuinally don't care, they never listen to the community, exfil zone devs actually listen, the people complaining about the stop of contractor showdown battleroyale, they told us that they are focusing on the extraction mode first, and will update both of them

[@labrat2000]

I spent 19.99 for the game, 17.99 for nuclear night, 4.99 for JW3 then 24.99 for independence edition (I think independence edition was that much). that's $67.96 I think. and now after they have milked all my money I get called a liability. I'm not mad they milked all my money (I had lots of fun with the game and with friends) I'm mad that after all that support I get called a liability now.

[@iSeeEZEkill]

This 👆

[@EGoat]

I would have been okay with a skin bundle, but it had to be a game mode.

[@djlotusx]

@@labrat2000 These are my thoughts Exactly. I paid at least 65 dollars total buying the Game TWICE, because of Independence day, With DLCs before that. It doesn't make me a LIABILITY just because they offered an edition that gave away all future DLCs. I feel like I'm Being PENALIZED for supporting them since the beginning, because now I'm a BURDEN, that's hindering they're financial progress because THEY MADE IT to where I never had to put more money in. I didn't put their Bundles together. I'm not in charge of their financing. I have better sense than to do something like give away ALL FUTURE MONEY MAKING ADD-ONs to customers to make a quick buck at the OFFICAIL LAUNCH( SHOUT TO ANYONE THATS STILL CLAIMING BETA OR PRE-RELEASE BULLSHIT, ITS A FINISHED GAME, THEY EVEN REMOVED THEIR OWN PRE-RELEASE BANNERS,) Specifically because I have the foresight to see this exact situation arising, which I'm assuming most normal people would. Plus I wouldn't have disgraced myself by calling my customers a liability because I chose to give away free ice cream for life to anyone who came to the grand opening, THEN 30 DAYS AFTERWARD. That's just Stupid.

[@olg7483]

Bro, fr, like if I pay 25 dollars, I expect very little paid things and a lot more content in the base game. Smh

[@ChieftainLion]

Tried sharing a video in Tabor discord and they immediately delete it and flagged me. I post it again. They immediately take it down and say. Self promoting. Don't do it again. I looked at them differently since then. They clearly only support creators with multiple of thousands of subscribers. They seem to not support smaller channels like you and I. I am switching to exfil zone as well soon. I have been loving the alpha and can only hope the release for the game is sooner than expected considering the repetitive state of tabor right now. I like your video & also I am Subbed now 😊

[@theholydemonofficial8165]

When my brother and I (using his acct, I didn't join with my own) were in the discord server the other day we were bringing up the problems we had with the wipe, to which they said 'then play something else' and banned my brother's acct from the discord. 10/10 would move to Exfil again.

[@joshuarussell2052]

Bro wants us to buy the game again every 100 hrs of playtime 💀💀💀

[@kiwi.bird2]

Disgusting. No other game would say this

[@EGoat]

If it was any other game, I could see it also getting flak too.

[@nillok-nothing]

@@EGoat with how the wipe is going, the people backing them on discord are showing their toxic side now....

[@EGoat]

@@nillok-nothing Yeah... it ain't good

[@Svbzeroidk]

1:17 where in the discord were players called a liability?

[@EGoat]

@Svbzeroidk this was in the private channel of independence and Founding Father's users who bought the game early.

[@MarblaGarb]

Unfortunately this is true in game development. Initial sales matter the absolute most especially for VR, since steam and meta both take 30% and then unreal also has licensing fees for games that cross a certain threshold in sales. They immediately need to fork up royalties and a large amount for an individual like 10mill, is incredibly small for indie devs because 6-7 mill is immediately ripped away, and then other financial responsibilities need to be taken care of. OG players who are no longer spending money are a liability 100% if there is no sustainable way to gain more money from them. OG players cause financial bleed over time if another source of income isn't introduced.. They add to server costs, maintenance costs, and development has plenty of other overhead and logistics to factor in such as refunds, hardware costs and so on. HOWEVER there was no need for them to make a statement like this, and if they felt they had to, they needed to rephrase and rethink their delivery entirely.

[@EGoat]

@MarblaGarb maybe buy a PR team to help out with it? I get making money to help pay for servers, but I don't like the pay wall for the PVE mode. DLC skins and cosmetics make as many as you want, but never lock gameplay behind a wall of money.

[@MarblaGarb]

@@EGoat I don't agree with their choice here either and I think their pricing model and overall delivery of the statement could've been planned better. I do understand their need and sentiments though!

[@EGoat]

@MarblaGarb I don't want any if the devs to lose their jobs! But these decisions being made have made a hole in the community.

[@AvianTacticalMobile]

You twisted fish’s words. Fish isn’t calling players a “liability” personally. From a business perspective, maintaining servers for players who don’t buy new DLCs costs money, while revenue from older purchases runs out. They’re just explaining the challenge of balancing costs and keeping a game alive long-term.

[@CageCompass]

the boot licking is crazy. cws employee found

[@HammyTheHamburger]

🦃🗣️👍

[@olg7483]

They should sell merchandise and get a passive income source then

[@TEvZET]

This video was such an eye opener fr fr

[@EGoat]

It's just getting on my nerves.

[@Svbzeroidk]

The thing is I feel that they’d have a much better reaction if they just phrased things better because in reality people who bought the ff pack then helped the game a lot at the time they bought it but think about it, now most of the people interested in actually getting dlcs are getting them for free, and just a reminder that cws is an indie dev group who receives no funding trying to make three games at once

[@EGoat]

I feel like they're biting more than they can chew. Besides that, I don't have any trust in them for their other games of Tabor is the example they're providing. But I hope im wrong.

[@zoogagaming5950]

@@EGoatSame, this whole situation in annoying and I was very excited for grim and silent north, now idk very much. Hopefully Combat Waffles other teams will treat their games better.

[@WeePinbell3]

Tabor is fun when the devs and bugs and timmies arent being bad 😭 devs dont deserve my money anymore, they got more dlc's than onward Pavlov ALVO yet there complaining abt money

[@cxth0544]

acting like this when contractors exfil is going to release and is literally in a free testing mode and having MORE content then tabor is crazy, they should be making a shit ton of changes to their game, the only reason people are playing tabor cause its the only game that scratched this niche and i completely believe that unless cws makes tabor better fast then when exfil releases its game over.

[@BradyBear99]

More content 😂

[@Slimyy]

This is so true honest, being a fellow tabor content creator aswell the game and devs have been terrible, even with me having the independance edition I think for other people 12.99 for PVE is shit, barely any content updates and if we did it wouldnt be alot, Exfilzone here I come.

[@cercata]

I'm founding father, if this had no wipes, and it wouldn't need CWS servers so I could use it even 10 years in the future, I would pay for it. With periodic WIPEs, no interest at all.

[@EGoat]

@@cercata THEY CAN MAKE AN OFFLINE MODE, BUT JUST DONT WANAN CAUSE THEYLL LOSE MONEY. (Sorry for caps btw, forgot I had that on.)

[@djlotusx]

​@@EGoatIT WAS WARRANTED.😂 THEY ARE RIDICULOUS WITH THE THINGS THEYRE DOING

[@cercata]

@@EGoat and you think they'll win money with the actual PvE DLC ? People who want PvE is people that can't play much, so they'll never reach level 5 traders because of the wipes ...

[@UZI_1488]

Insane. Absolutely insane. They wouldn’t be where they are today without the players. Yet another L for CWS.

[@AddictedtoCooke]

Certified banger

[@EGoat]

They need to do better. I WOULD have been okay with 3 dlc content of cosmetics instead, and it would have solved the server issue stuff. But maybe that's just me.

[@koolkiller35]

Wish I could play exfil zone but I can't play it because I have an index and it's currently meta quest users only :(

[@EGoat]

@@koolkiller35 soon it'll be on steam

[@koolkiller35]

@@EGoat any idea how soon? :(

[@EGoat]

@@koolkiller35 might be after Dec? But we'll have to see

[@ZedHead232]

I have been hating on them for months. Ever since they started DLC farming I knew it would end up like this. That’s why I stopped making GOT videos, thank you for making a video on this, I might even make my own because this is foul. Game of the year too, absolutely not.

[@EGoat]

Please do. But be very mindful of how you present it. Please keep in mind to "separate the art from the artist." Keep personal lives out of it and only focus on game decisions.

[@ZedHead232]

@ oh of course, I’m hating on the model. DLC’s were the only content besides bug fixes for awhile, and now PVE and name saving for $12? Insane

[@Marklennon]

Here’s my dumbass owning a PSVR2 because I was originally told by the Devs the game would be released March 2023

[@EGoat]

I WAS WONDERING WHERE THAT SHIT IS AT MANNNNN

[@KaoruSugimura]

So, they are the Activision of VR studios? Got it. Was thinking about getting Tabor as I'm looking for the next vr game to play after getting everything on Dungeons of Eternity. (They had a new update as well going from 3 player to 4, added PvP, 3 new bosses and a lot of new cosmetics to unlock)

[@zoogagaming5950]

Ive played tabor, but its boring after a month. And yeah lol thats what I was thinking when I saw this bs 😂, might as well start making us preorder for $70 😂

[@FlamezGamesYT]

I find it funny that they berated tarkov for the PVE mode and are now doing it themselves Obviously it’s not the same scale because of pricing, but still stupid.

[@notboss1]

1. What fish says makes sense. Over time, they lose money on hosting servers when people spend hundreds or thousands of hours, along with how expensive employees are. 2. People complain so much about how tabor is “P2W” with their starter DLC’s etc and it really isn’t that bad… the loot you get is NOT worth $20+ and most can be obtained fairly easily, and traders can be leveled up within a few raids. 3. When I first saw PvE, I assumed it would be $10+, and well it is. I personally would prefer just training over PvE as the only difference is you can have friends (which I don’t have) and loot is from a different bunker, which has pros and cons as you may want to test weapons you have in main bunker but not in alternate bunker. 4. GOT will be in Beta for a long time, people complain about bugs so damn much and it’s stupid. If you don’t want to deal with bugs, don’t buy a game that’s in beta/early development! Losing items due to bugs and shit is part of tabor, and has been since the start. Back in the day you couldn’t even play island on standalone as it would crash at least 50% of the raids. Tarkov is also still in beta and just recently came out of alpha if I recall correctly? As a player of tabor for well over a year, my views of the game are mixed, but overall more positive. Please do reply with your opinion, but keep it civil.

[@EGoat]

1. I think it makes sense, but as a consumer, it doesn't really bite too well on my butt. 2. P2W Starter kit is a bit of a iffy one, but does give people advantages over others to succeed in the game, so like ABI, you can buy bullets and money to get better gear, but it's not always a chance. But if it increases a chance, it's gambling at that point and shouldn't even be considered for buying. 3. PVE IS AWESOME! But to put it behind a pay wall isn't something I like. I would at this point rather pay for 3 skins worth $5 than to buy a PVE mode that's locked behind a pay wall. 4. Beta bugs are bound to happen, but when looking at other games... you can tell a clear difference in experience and polishes. CWS are new, so they're learning, but it's janky. Exfilzone is not as janky, yet it's still in Alpha. I don't know how long they worked on it, but Caveman studios are smaller, but more experience, so there's not excuses for what they provide if a LIVING example is here. I will not play Tabor still even with a late update on making the PVE free, they should have thought of that first before putting a $ on it.

[@nichenetwork9817]

Bro if you’re VERY lucky or VERY good at killing players in one raid of 11 or 5 possibly better equipped and experienced players, sure. It’s really not that easy, especially if you’re new or returning to VR. 25k for level 2 is HARD while not killing tons of players, or trying to do fenix challanges. There’s a lot going on with player missions and you have to GRIND them to get anything trader wise. Not everyone can be the best in several lobbies in a row. It’s just a bit much if you have a life or job.

[@notboss1]

At the very start of wipe, really no one has loot so it’s fairly easy to get kills if your a skilled player. Also, you get “new player” only raids at until your level 5. All you gotta do is do missions, but kill yourself before exfil so you get less player XP. My opinion and experience. More opinions below 👇 @@nichenetwork9817 the game is not meant to be easy either. This game IS meant to be grinded, although it can be played a few times for fun, you need skill and lots of time to grind and get traders and more loot. I know a few people who have gotten spectre 5 / minty 5 within 48 hours of wipe just from grinding.

[@Mooseknuckleknower]

Wipe that glaze off your lips before speaking

[@kiwi.bird2]

⁠@@nichenetwork9817mission system is changing a bit next wipe so hopefully traders won’t be as bad

[@nonlan6286]

Its a business at the end of the day, they dont have big funding from big folks, they have us. to play the game and pay for dlc, many many many many other games have done this on a MUCH larger scale. Tabor is 25 dollars. plus EVERY dlc including the new stuff coming if packed full of content. People who want a PVE tabor experience then play training raids or pay the price of a McDonalds meal. Just deal, you prolly dont even wanna play it anyway lol.

[@nonlan6286]

and the game is just as playable without any dlc... just get good lol

[@EGoat]

@@nonlan6286 I have to disagree. So agree to disagree?

[@djlotusx]

I will respectfully disagree. When I was a delivery driver, I didn't always get tipped. I also always understood that it WASNT THE CUSTOMERS JOB TO TIP ME SO THAT I COULD MAKE ENOUGH MONEY. THAT WAS MY EMPLOYERS JOB. That was EXTRA, LIKE DLCs. THE GAME IS THE ORDER, THE DLCs ARE THE TIP. IM NOT GIVING YOU MORE MONEY EVERY TIME I TAKE A BITE OF THE PIZZA I ALREADY PAYED FOR. The same goes here. It's not our fault they feel they didn't make enough money on their game, we didn't pick the price. It's not our fault they don't listen and don't fix their game, which makes it VERY hard to recommend, Word of mouth is key. Lastly, I would never have told one of my customers there were a LIABILITY just because I didn't get a tip every time they ordered (Equating to each time we log in to play the game having to somehow glaze them with more money to justify our existence on the server)

[@alfbeef5880]

Content that should have been in the game since the beginning should not be paid for. I personally just started playing the game and Consider this is very discouraging. This whole game with all of its current content is worth no more than thirty bucks.. Looks like the developer is trying to kill this game.

[@Svbzeroidk]

@@djlotusxone question. Who would be paying if you didn’t have an employer?

[@Slurpmaster9009]

istg they want to be tarkov in literally every way. At the very least with tarkov they actually listened and gave EOD owners PVE and later allowed players to buy PVE separately, both companies suck but tbh BSG has a very small amount of respect for their consumers.

[@EGoat]

Its like they're trying to follow in dad's footsteps, but in a weird way.

[@Slurpmaster9009]

@@EGoat yeah, especially considering this is a paid pve mode, which I feel like is being added just because tarkov has it. Weird devs I'll tell ya what

[@EGoat]

@Slurpmaster9009 Either way, idk them as people, so no judgement there. But as devs... ehhhhhh

[@thatgoofyvrguy]

Preach brother.

[@Goin_VR]

i cant even play the game because it wont stop crashing😭

[@MajedCT]

this is extremley wrong to have an out of context taken image hurt the reputation of CWS, if you were a liability would infish be working 12 hours on the weekend to please you? would scott be sleeping at the office to release the updates? what is insane is the people the believe this, i have better things to do than respond to replies so dont waste your time replying to me please.

[@WeePinbell3]

afraid of criticism 🤡🤡🤡

[@MajedCT]

@WeePinbell3 Sure pinbell3.

[@astainlessnoyb1038]

They should just make PVE client based servers and they wouldn't need the money squeeze.

[@Avarialt]

Very well said sir, it's a sad industry and it's hard to fight against it, atleast the other extraction game should atleast I hope be much better than tabor

[@anomalousinsect]

Wooow. Not only did he say the quiet part out loud, he phrased it in the most dickbaggish way possible. 🥶 I've been waffling for a while on whether or not to get into Tabor, mostly because I don't have enough free time to get as sweaty as a Tarkov-like of that magnitude would demand to overcome my (actual) skill issues, but stuff like this isn't helping. I'd love a single player or coop variant of a game like that, but... yeah, it's silly that they poked fun at Tarkov and then pulled a Tarkov. I've been playing the ExfilZone alpha and having fun with it in my own way. Caveman doesn't exactly have the best track record (they legit broke OG Contractors last month and it's just... stayed broken), but Showdown's locomotion is slick as heck and it's fun for what it is. Only major bug I've really run into repeatedly is being attacked by scavs when loading in as a scav, I think it must just bug out and spawn you in as a contractor with scav gear or something... not sure what's up there, but hey, alpha! I may just play more Into the Radius 1/2 to get my loot goblin fix. 😂

[@oatsyjr3080]

This is exactly my thought about this too. It’s so weird that people think this isn’t a problem, even though if this becomes more of a normal thing it could tank peoples respect not just in Tabor, but the other games they are working on. Plus Scott Crashes out on people pointing out real flaws in either ideas or just in general seems like a dick move

[@EGoat]

Agree. I just think it's time to move on from this game. Not worth the toxicity it brings

[@Mooseknuckleknower]

Tabor belongs to gorilla tag kids now

[@EGoat]

@@Mooseknuckleknower pain

[@PB33F]

Contractors welcomes you!

[@TheMonkeyOfCheeseofficial]

to be honest, i love tabor, and i dont really care about what the devs are doing, its one of my favourite games which i think is made VERY well especially for vr , and the dlc its not TOO expensive like many other games would do, like people dont stop playing call of duty because the MP is very expensive, if they cant afford it, they play warzone. Which is why i think the community should stay to tabor, its a good game. Also, dont call me a gtag kid bc of my pfp bc that doesnt rlly matter too much i enjoy that game toio

[@EGoat]

@TheMonkeyOfCheeseofficial I respect your opinion on this. It's a game you enjoy, and paying for it is all one you. I'm glad you're supporting the devs in your way. But like I said in the video, it's my own opinion of how things are going.

[@TheMonkeyOfCheeseofficial]

@@EGoat 😀

[@edenEDEN839]

love cws very real company but every now and then there cracks show

[@IamChawMp]

TBH CWS have hit rock bottom, EA levels of microtransactions, a dev team that hates their playerbase, etc. as much as i usually separate the art from the artist, i cant keep trying to support combat waffle (been here since the alpha, founding father). i just feel like im stuck playing their lackluster game because the exfilzone alphas arent on steam atm

[@EGoat]

I think it's a little hard to do it for Tabor, but I do think that it's only bad decisions. Scott as a person, idk, but I won't bad mouth him as a person cause I don't know who he is or what he does outside of CWS. Maybe he's a chill guy who may have bitten more off than they can chew. But we'll have to see.

[@riottttttttt92837]

so this is the death of ghost of tabor

[@Alecario1414]

Calling their players as yet another expense for them is VILE SHAME ON CWS

[@redranger8603]

Old player who dont pay for anything but the base game awhile ago. Is a liability not an asset you know basic business terms. It cost more money to keep the game working for old players who buy once and never again then new players and players who buy dlc. CWS is a business they have to make money. If no one bought another copy of GoT then they would start losing money paying for devs and servers snd all the overhead that goes with the game. I am not sure what's so hard to understand if someone buys a game once and there are reoccurring fees (like keeping servers up) at one point the player who bought the game will become a liability and CWS will start to lose money because of them. I am a founding father of the game, i don't really play the game anymore it's getting boring and too repetitive plus CWS handles things poorly. I am not here to defend this game its really not great. But you really dont understand business.

[@EGoat]

Look, I don't understand business. But I know enough game history that this was down to fail from that start. This is what tarkov did, but on a smaller scale. I don't mind if they try to earn money in some way, but there are other monetization plans they could have used to pay for those servers and feed the devs families. More skins, cosmetics for the bunker, etc. It's just better ways than behind a PVE mode. So yeah, you're right about me not being knowledgeable in business, but a dummy would have known that this was a bad wrap to get into.

[@redranger8603]

@EGoat if you knew it was going to fail from the start why buy and support it?

[@djlotusx]

@@redranger8603 Because the CORE GAMEPLAY is what we're looking for. You can see that with the ExfilZone ALPHA. We want a looter extraction shooter where we can do what we want and get kitted however we can and fight to win or lose. If that was The Legend of Zelda, we would still want to play that gameplay loop. Ghosts of Tabor happened to do those things so we bought it. The same reason we buy any other game, it looks fun. I do understand business, and as I've stated in other comments, I wouldn't be stupid enough to give away paid add-on content designed to pay for server upkeep and creative longevity, no matter what, Even if it was to promote the launch. I definitely wouldn't later blame it on my customers when it came back to bite me in the ass. I have Independence Day, so I'm one of those LIABILITIES, and business jargon or secret DMs or not, calling a CUSTOMER a LIABILTY is not in good taste, at it's best, and, at it's worst, as a supporter, it's downright inflammatory. They don't support us playing the game, as shown by their; PLAY YOUR 100 HOURS AND GET OUT comment, so why should we continue to support them. Besides they are making Two Other games which means they're not exactly hurting for money no matter what anyone says, and if that's such a big issue, maybe stop stretching yourself too far and focus on what you already have going on.

[@BatteryProductions]

wow, calling their players a liability is just wrong..

[@inotorio-white2120]

Same mistake as Battle States Games, When Nikita announce the paid PVE DLC, they got worse reputation and feed back

[@RadiusLemon]

Love the vid man. Sad to see what's happening to this game, but in a way they deserve it. I've made vids like this in the past and the only negative feedback I recieve is little kids saying "the devs are trying." My ass

[@EGoat]

I think the devs are trying, but this is a bad business decision. All I think is that if they would, just make a bunch of skins to sell. Just say fuck it. They would earn more than doing a $13 game mode. If they want to get more money for servers, make more cosmetic items. It's that easy.

[@Script-007]

CWS has always been out of touch with the gaming community and their own. From bad public relations to calling bugs that kill a "skill issue" to ridiculous paid DLC and lack of/no attention to fixing the bugs after A YEARS worth of development. I think I'll go with caveman studios on this one, later Tabor

[@melodic1941]

This is what I’ve been saying combat waffle studios are scumbags every game they have produced is just a knock off of an already well established game obviously this is a tarkov knock off and they have a rust rip off coming out this month and now they have a dayz rip off in the works completely lazy team and people need to stop giving these guys money

[@SeanoldBeasley]

ExfilZone is the way forward. Tabor is dogshit. I should have refunded tbh. I bought it close to launch. Only played like 5 hours and put it down forever. But I’ve played like 20 hours of extfilzone and it’s in ALPHA

[@jacobdaniel8895]

Every company has there shady side. Showing just ones is an unfair practice. If you did deep enough, every company is horrible. For example, COD makes everything a dlc, and even then the base game is 60 bucks minimum. Also, tarkov makes you spend 250 bucks for the best version. Know are tabor devs not care, yes. Does almost every other game devs not care? Yes.

[@EGoat]

Pain

[@Luckoftheirishvr]

like i see where your coming from but i also see where the devs are coming from too, its an on going game , and if people love it it should really be so much about oh tabor dropped another dlc for money and be more of well we should support the developers and help them keep bringing a great game to us, at the same time as it being a game its also a company too if you get me, tarkov made a mess of what they did, tabor are only charging 12 quid for an extra bit of the game which hugely supports there developments

[@xb8583]

Agreed. In addition, PvE just isn’t something so major YET. For example, in Tarkov’s case, people have been yearning for effective PvE for YEARS and then the devs released it for $250. In Tabor’s case, PvE is a complete afterthought for now, and I’m sure they’re going to make it better later on. The main point of this update is not the PvE, it’s all the other stuff to be hyped about. Plus, its not something the community has been waiting YEARS for either. Its just kind of like, “huh, they’re adding a neat PvE mode to the side to explore the maps and quests.”

[@matKilla9801]

Bullshit. They could make money with cosmetic skins instead of gameplay stuff.

[@DIRECTEDBYH]

@@matKilla9801 i hope they don't bc the game should not look like CoD

[@EGoat]

I think it's fine about paying $13 dollars to support a dev, but I wouldn't want to pay wall people a game mode that everyone would have enjoyed playing. I get it, but what drove me mad was them going back on their word. They told us they wouldn't do something like this, yet they did. It's a betray of trust. Imagine what people would do if you had to buy zombies on COD? People would go mad. I support devs in their ambition, but I go against the pay wall of a game mode. Skins, Expansions, whatever is fine, so long as it doesn't hinder the game itself from limiting people's play time, then that's great. I would be willing to pay $5 for a skin pack easily. But they went the route of a game mode in early access, where there are still AI that are just boring to go against. (But it may change with the update.) I think there's other ways of gaining money to support devs. But to me, this ain't it.

[@EGoat]

I think that's cool and all, but this is going against what they promised before on not doing what tarkov did. That's what got me in a head spin. It's the betryal of trust.

[@strawberry_m6507]

tabor is one of those games thats base game is built on copying another game and they expect praise for being lazy while in the discord they are charging 25 a month to do raids with them which they also dont use, ive been subbed to it for about 2 months maybe 3 and ive yet to see them do anything, nor as they say when you get that they'll give you a vc personalized but i still yet to have one, over all the tabor devs are just not it

[@thebear2950]

The truth hurts, making a game is hard infish just said what we dont want to hear

[@AlbieGT]

i swear to god why does this keep happening to me, i only bought ghosts of tabor 4 days ago 😭

[@EliasArnn]

I think you can still try to refund it (That would be a good idea)

[@AlbieGT]

@ I’ve played over 2 hours so unfortunately I can’t

[@supremeshrimp9]

hate to be that guy but you can get tarkov pve for $20 its been like that for awhile now cuz of the backlash bsg got

[@EGoat]

Honestly, I think the backlash was warranted, and now it's warranted for Tabor too. They said they wouldn't do this, but they did. That's what bugs me the most. I feel betrayed.

[@kenjisama9710]

With this comment Tabor = dead. Exfilzone is the new Tabor!

[@MrTefe]

I dont really care about PVE im still gonna play Ghosts of Tabor since its the best VR extraction available still

[@madcat3.0]

i agree with that, i honestly think people are blowing it way out of proportion here, i hate the contractors guns and that the main reason i play tabor for, is the gunplay

[@EGoat]

I respect you sticking to your guns. But it's THE ONLY VR extraction shooter that can hold its own. Kinda hard to beat it if there's no competition.

[@Numaticmaster]

the only reason PVE mode is so much is because they had to get completely new servers. cramming everyone on the same servers would make the base h game unplayable

[@SilverSheild]

PVE should be local. You're playing against AI players why would you need servers other than CO-op for the pve. Which I see not much use in

[@EGoat]

I think the whole server deal, ot makes sense. But the issue is they could have found a way to pay for those servers without any pay wall to a game mode. Besides that, PVE would be very niche too, considering a lot of people want the PVP almost 24/7. It's more like a arena shooter at this point. But I get it from a business standpoint. But they could have worded it better and not called people "liability."

[@KhaziirEverflight]

Servers cost money, even if you're the only one on the instance. So it would be unprofitable to not ask some money for it. And they are not our friends, they are a business that sell us their product. Profit is important for them, because without it, they literally do not have a livelihood. Sure, the devs are a bit rude at times and said things harsher than was needed, but in the end they are correct in the substance of their words. Once the money you and i paid is essentially used in paying off a devs workday, that money can not be profitable anymore to them, so they need more sources of income to pay their employees with. So either new game or new paid content for the game they already got. If they do neither, the game, and entire studio, gets shut down either way, forever. Financially, I, a founding father DLC owner on pc, am a "liability" to them, since I use their service, and that as long as the game stays up, without ever having to pay another cent that could pay for server uptime or wages etc. I drain their resources without ever contributing towards "refilling" those resources. I am a net-loss at this point.

[@EGoat]

Okay, to be fair, it's not just calling us liability that got me messed up. It's going back on their word to not make game modes a DLC. To do what Tarkov has done, yet they did. I also get paying for servers, but they could have done it better with other items to buy. Cosmetics, skins for guns, different knives, etc. There are so many opportunities to earn MORE money than a one-time purchase for a PVE mode. Honestly, I think it's just a bad business move to make it on a game mode instead of literally anything else. I want those devs to earn their bag, but do it in a way that doesn't affect other players' enjoyment.

[@clowning69]

servers are expensive, money doesnt grow on trees, they need a way to pay for servers, salaries, internet etc

[@EGoat]

There are other monetization ways to make that money without locking it behind a money gate. Skins, cosmetics, etc. And can be made monthly too.

[@clowning69]

@@EGoat so.. your saying add a battlepass? that would make it so much worse

[@smogworm]

i would just like to point out that things cost money and when your spending more money than your making that's a strait road to bankruptcy and i would not try and go as far as to strike at tabor than just dealing with the fact that some things cost money in your life it looks like you think everything is free

[@jackrockle9687]

Uhhh. You can play pve solo without paying the dlc. Also, only the host needs to pay for the dlc in order to have multiplayer in pve.

[@EGoat]

This video is old. Check the date.

[@1ol366]

yes i am biased here but atleast there honest unlike some other companys

[@Master_Meow2408]

I mean they are running a business here, if anything infish is being honest. His point makes sense. I also really think that the PVE mode really isnt that big of a deal, the loot doesn't transfer between LIVE and PVE so why does it matter?

[@Master_Meow2408]

sorry if this is coming across as slander i just really dont get the fuss

[@EGoat]

@@Master_Meow2408 Its about the whole ordeal for pay walling a feature everyone wanted. The thing also, they've could have made easy money with a different DLC skin pack or something along those lines. I think it's only fair that they do that instead of blocking gameplay elements behind a pay wall. IMO. Also, I don't mind having the conversation about this! I love feedback and I do listen and read what people have to say.

[@Master_Meow2408]

@@EGoat Yea when you put it like that i can definitely see a point there, But to be honest this is nothing new in the gaming industry so I'm not sure why only Ghost Of Tabor is getting backlash for this. I dont really look at it like a feature, Rather a different game/mode. I think it was always meant to be like that.

[@EGoat]

@Master_Meow2408 I think it's because I have expectations for these devs to be better than the industry. Reach higher, not stoop to their level. You know what I mean?

[@djlotusx]

​​@@Master_Meow2408 I feel like we all thought this was the one time a company was close enough in Scope to its community that they WANTED to listen and react accordingly to its grievances. They were a "Small Studio of, "Gamers," like us." Instead we got... More Corporate Greed, We get blamed for playing the game too long and being a BURDEN on their servers, and pretty much told to get off the platform when we get our fix so people that will give them money can take our place till they stuck them dry and they meet the same fate after their "100 Hours"🤯🤯

[@BigManVROfficial]

Ghosts of boring, compared to tarkov its NyQuil

[@EGoat]

@@BigManVROfficial I did get bored of it really fast for not having some system. But hopefully the mission system will help with that. Still not playing though lmao

[@BigManVROfficial]

@@EGoat Nah it's just the people that don't talk or have fun, only tryhard, which isn't suitable for my egregious way of playing games

[@EGoat]

@BigManVROfficial Agree, which is why exfilzonr has new features to mess around with and have a good time

[@EGoat]

​@@BigManVROfficial Pain, it's pretty much in the slogan itself "trust no one". Everyone betrays each other. It's awful.

[@michaelkalverkamp9699]

I think you get fish wrong. He definatly didnt mean it that way. Server Costs, thats what he ment. And that is a liability. And needed to serve the Players.

[@iSeeEZEkill]

While i take it thats what he meant as well, i also think you should put the players and the promises made first. He showed no signs of such.

[@EGoat]

I think he could have worded it differently. From a business standpoint, I get paying for servers. But they could have gone a better route for monetization than paying for a game mode. Make more skins and cosmetics, which would have been great, shit I would have supported them with paying for Christmas bundles. But they had to make it behind a PVE game mode. I get it, grab the bag, but there are other ways of doing that.

[@PlumberKarlTV]

I disagree. I think I have a different perspective

[@EGoat]

@@PlumberKarlTV Fair enough!

[@Unplugged7]

Should infish have said that? No, obviously not. But, there's some truthfulness to it. If someone buys tabor, but no DLC, and plays for thousands of hours, they are technically a "liability" on the servers capacity. However, there arent enough players like that, alot of people play casually. Also, I see why this upset you and many other community members, so yeah. Im still loyal to tabor, but undeniably it's beginning to look alot more like a money hungry buisness rather than a game studio.

[@EGoat]

I agree to grab the bag for servers, but behind a PVE? Nah, I would have paid for more skins instead. THEY COULD MAKE CONTENT CREATOR SKINS TOO. It's just the way they said it seemed like a really gross way to treat the player base as. But, the servers do cost money, I don't mind of they get money, but they could have done it any other way.

[@lagaudet]

id say that still play it but dont buuy stuff because then you are costing a bad company a lot of money when you play

[@lordsillyYT]

bro you dont have to buy the pve dlc idk why ur complaining abt it

[@EGoat]

Maybe I just have a skill issue.

[@OlagCakes]

I mostly disagree with the sentiment here. The comparison to EFT is in very bad faith. You either don't understand why the EFT PvE situation was so vehemently protested or you are willfully ignorant. The problems with the EFT situation were two fold. First, the PvE unique feature was 100% locked behind a paywall. As planned initially, you could not pay $20 or whatever the price is set to on top of the base game to get access to the PvE mode. Secondly, the "Founding Father" equivalent in EFT were promised all future DLC with the purchase. But you see the catch here, is that BSG called PvE mode a "unique feature," It wasn't until there was a lot of outcry that BSG started giving Edge of Darkness users the DLC and later added the ability to purchase the PvE mode separately. There are some that complain about the current state after the changes, but not very many do. From a business standpoint, users that only pay once but actively engage with software in a way that continually costs a company money are liabilities. There is no sweet talking around it. Hell, it is the very definition of a liability. Taking offense to a dev merely stating that they need to charge for a DLC that will add additional continual costs to mitigate liabilities doesn't make sense. InFish even specifically said "From a business perspective" at the start of that sentence. Where I will agree with players on a problem though is that we have gotten 2 weapon paid DLCs and now a PvE DLC within a year and a half. That in my opinion is excessive while the main features of the game are still being actively worked on.

[@gjack567]

Damn. I thought CWS was gonna be a decent company

[@EGoat]

Might just be a big "whoops" on their end. But we'll have to see. I'm banned on the Discord server, so I can't see what they're saying.

[@gjack567]

@@EGoat why did you get banned?

[@EGoat]

@@gjack567 Cause they thought this video was bad. Which makes sense.

[@gjack567]

@@EGoat i see nothing wrong with this video lol, you don't really trash talk CWS or anything like that.

[@EGoat]

@@gjack567 But people agreed with Ghosts of Tabor messing up, so I feel as though they're shunning me

[@OPFOR_ANIMATIONS]

Tabor just kinda sucks. Annoying players, armor doesnt help, and its an extraction shooter, which isnt a very fun genre, and the dev team seems a little bit shady, and the DLCs are too much money for what they are. They have good gunplay, but thats literally the only good thing I can say. I physically CANNOT enjoy this game

[@drshroomy1384]

Bruh why yall stressing over 15 bucks. You be the same hoomans that buy a Bo6 gun skin and a character skin for like 30 bucks loooool personal i suck at tabor and get lucky some times on good kills. So i would buy so i can play casually and not have to play at top lvl after a 12 hour work day. 😂

[@Eggs_Are_Good]

I do agree but they have since made it more worth it and added skins and charms to the dlc so thats nice

[@EGoat]

Sort of... I still think it should be a bundle of skins instead.

[@DaHamDude]

I bought the liberty dlc so I get the dlc but it’s too bad the game sucks and I don’t play it lol

[@FaultyFrag-sj1jn]

they need to make money for those servers man

[@EGoat]

I get it, but just do it another way. Skin bundles, cosmetics, just anything but locking game play behind a fucking pay wall.

[@Agent0range-A-]

The fan boy nonsense is crazy you have fun with exfil.. im out bro the crybaby attitude and the negativity is very telling.. if your done with tabor just move on no need to bash the game or the community 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@oatsyjr3080]

We got the CWS glazer over here

[@Nugget22356]

Or Maybe someone with common sense lol ​@@oatsyjr3080

[@lordsillyYT]

@@oatsyjr3080 sounds like somebody's got a skill issue

[@oatsyjr3080]

@@lordsillyYT sounds like another Glazer over here

[@_gamedude_yt2535]

Bros just telling us he’s poor

[@EGoat]

Brother, i just got a new GPU installed.

[@matthewmotor18]

Nice job not passing or maybe just doing economics in school