GI Show - The Scary Future Of Anti-Consumer Gaming, South Park, Evil Within 2

[@ruthlesssavagehatred6428]

Wow, this is one of the best episodes of GI Show I've seen. Great deep dive into controversial gaming topics.

[@mikemaciaszek3508]

Aw Andy did a good job! I'd like to see him on more content!

[@Megaphro]

I'm glad you guys are talking about this. I think you guys should start scoring how microtransaction affect the game along with a separate score from the game.

[@clintonleonard5187]

Fantastic idea. I feel like they wouldn't do that, but it's a great idea.

[@Megaphro]

Clinton Leonard Thanks. I really do hope they consider it tho. It would be a fantastic additional little thing that would help many people.

[@SeanDS89]

Andy, you're an awesome host and you're always welcome on the GI show... please don't ever feel otherwise

[@kevbednarz5334]

This was my favorite podcast in a long time. Andy should do this more it's great!

[@umiluv]

I love this panel. Such an interesting topic and I love that Andy is on this since he's been in the scene forever. I also love that Miller is also on this too since his love for games is a lot of what hardcore gamers love about games - story, gameplay, design, etc. I enjoy Hanson a lot but I really like that Andy's hosting this because it's a much more serious topic.

[@Bill_Bo]

Wait until your grocery store gets wind of this loot crate scam! "Oh, that's too bad you got some rotten food this time. You should buy another crate so you might something good to eat." "Oh, all you got was candy. You better try another crate to get something healthy."

[@Heerox328]

I think there's two things that really need to happen regarding micro-transactions: 1. Gamers need to take some responsibility for their existence. Micro-transactions would not exist if gamers did not spend money on them. That's simply the truth. There are enough gamers out there that are making this business model feasible, and we as a community will really have to look at ourselves and wonder if this is truly in our best interest. 2. The gaming media needs to take a stand and push back. The gaming media has a platform to speak about these issues in a way that gamers cannot. One powerful way the media can do this is through reviews, and coming down hard on publishers/developers. Giving Shadow of War a 9.5 is not going to discourage publishers from implementing predatory micro-transactions. If anything, that will embolden them to continue the trend. If games are going to remain a source of entertainment and joy for us gamers, we need to fight to keep them that way. Business does not know its limits and will continue to push as hard as it can to maximize profits. We are the only thing that can truly stop this practice and limit how far it will go, but we have to make a stand. United we stand. Divided we fall.

[@roblichner20]

Great episode! Intelligent conversations like this are rare, thank you!

[@Melchiorblade7]

Great podcast. Always nice to hear Andy's thoughts

[@elaminders]

Yeah Andy! Always a treat when he stops by.

[@SadalDay]

wish he would show up more

[@thedarkesteros]

Whether he's hosting or a guest, it's always really great to see Andy Mac. What a bloody legend.

[@skyboxmagee8038]

I love seeing Reiner and Andy on the same podcast They are good at dissecting and analyzing the stories based on their breadth of knowledge and experience. This is my favorite podcast so far. . and I have listened since the Helgeson era. Good job guys!!!!

[@KyleJWest-vn9kn]

I miss having Matt Helgeson hosting too. But I agree, it's great hearing Andy and Reiner talk about the industry. I hate to use the word "seasoned" (as neither of them are old) but they have been around for a lot of really important events. Fun podcast!

[@OnkelBermuda]

Andy is really good as a host. Great show!

[@itsjustmemildoze]

Andy Coup d'etat of the GI Show? Hells yea! He has a truly unique perspective of the gaming industry. I will gladly watch this entire GI Show this week just to prove it. Andy really is an interesting person and I could listen to him and Reiner talk about gaming for days. Then you went ahead and put Matt Miller in there too? Now you're going to have to put these guys on the show every week, Ben, just to keep the show going after this one set the bar too high!

[@CTSchmidlak]

Super awesome to see the "Game Dandy" himself hosting the podcast. Also really enjoyed the insightful discussion at the front end - as much as I love the wacky stuff, it's also good to hear the team's thoughts on more serious topics facing the industry. Definitely looking forward to next week's show!

[@chriscornejo7261]

Great episode guys. Its always great to see Andy on the show. Great job hosting!

[@Atreides217]

Nice job on the show guys!

[@edge_harvest7872]

Great conversation. Glad to hear you guys talking about this. Andy did a good job hosting.

[@glucosaminecondroitan9135]

Andy was great, he should be on more podcasts. I have never paid for microtransactions. I always thought they were for mobile games and facebook games, which i never play. Prey and Dishonored are some of my favorite games and would be bummed if games like them stopped being developed.

[@davidartrip85]

Great crew this week! Missed Hanson but Andy did a great job filling in.

[@bashful_michael]

Fascinating discussion on the future of anti-consumer gaming! So sad what happened to Visceral. Also Missed Ben but Andy really impressed me as host and I hope we see more of him on future episodes of the Game Informer Show.

[@sev2300]

I honestly think this should be a collective effort. Because as long as games like Starwars Battlefront 2 get 9s from most of the gaming websites without factoring in the publisher’s insidious way of monetizing the in-game content, then we can’t expect uneducated consumers to stop buying such games or refrain from dropping money on micro-transaction items.

[@nicholaslanze6963]

Such a good discussion on a bad practice. You did great Andy! Look forward to next week!

[@farmsalot1233]

Please add a score on how microtransactions effect a game in your reviews.

[@MachoChannel213]

Can we have Andy on the show all of the time? He was a great host.

[@clintonleonard5187]

That was awesome when Miller essentially said "I don't care what the publisher wants." It's so true, we want devs to make money so they can make more games, but if it's going to be in-your-face money grabs that don't improve the game then it's a problem for the gamer.

[@cptclown2110]

Friday morning with the GI crew!!

[@Silentknight1171]

Good to see Reiner fired up. Great discussion guys.

[@jasonkrug7928]

Also glad you guys are taking a thoughtful position on this. It's easy to just brush it off as all corrupt & evil, but this is a very complicated issue. Things like loot boxes aren't inherently evil, but can easily be used to take advantage of consumers. It's a tricky issue and those who abandon nuance aren't advancing the conversation. P.S. More Andy please!

[@sloppymilkshake5989]

Fantastic episode!! The balance of geeky gaming love and game journalism was perfect.

[@SadalDay]

Its very nice to see Andy.. Imo this has to be a collective effort, if a AAA game is obnoxiously greedy with pay to win micro transactions up the wazoo you guys need to bring the hammer down on them because unfortunately giving a game a 9.5 or a 9 will not only encourage them to continue upping the ante but also may spur readers to question your integrity. We are at the point where nothing short of legislative intervention will buck this trend. Activisions new patent is scary indeed and intrusive.

[@farmsalot1233]

The Ethical Pixel amen

[@SadalDay]

I mean at the very least these outlets could put a box at the bottom of the review stating game has micro transactions and maybe go as far as to include a micro transaction scale/rating ie 1 star being say cosmetics and 3 star being the worst kind, they talk about a changing landscape yet many of these outlets are too stubborn to adapt & to me thats a pity because unlike some people who hope mainstream would die off i myself grew up with these outlets and feel they are valuable and do have a place. Its really Easy to talk about something when the rest of the internet is, you knida have to at that point, for years i looked towards these outlets to help correct the ship but it never came. Instead many of them turned a blind eye. Reviews are supposed to benefit consumers, i mean thats the purpose of a review right? I dont buy into this "well the game is good and its not my job to speak on anything else" because thats a very narrow perspective to have considering in their own words games are changing. If anyone thinks a game that has exp and credit boosters didnt mess with things on the back end to make them more enticing is either very naive or brain dead, what would the appeal be if it was a fair playing field? There would be no incentive to buy them if it was and this new patent is very telling that YES they are messing around on the back end, in ways that feel it should be illegal because imo

[@Jrey2690]

I don't necessarily think that giving the game a low score is the answer. Games are consumer driven, if you don't like micro-transactions then do not purchase them.

[@SadalDay]

WHAT ? what does that even mean? of course they are consumer driven just as the act of buying games is, youre pointing out the obvious

[@kalega311]

Thanks for the timestamps! =)

[@anthonylall4859]

Omg! Thank you guys for calling out these recent insidious microtransaction system. Thank you Reiner. One of the very few games media outlet thats calling it out for what it is.

[@teabag8659]

So dumb they are last to speak and gave nasty shdaow of war almost perfect score

[@brineforblood]

Awesome show guys

[@Feelin_DanDy]

Scary future of anti-consumer gaming??? We've been living in it for years now...

[@SadalDay]

indeed

[@mononoke721]

Game Informer, as much as I love the editors, have never been very on top of this sort of thing. They're just not cynical enough.

[@Heerox328]

GI has largely avoided the issue entirely. Occasionally making remarks, but at most it's just an opinion article from one editor. I think their fear is losing cover story trips and damaging relations with developers and publishers if they come down hard on MTs. I seriously doubt WB would have invited GI to Monolith's studio to see Shadow of War had they been attacking MTs in the game. When push comes to shove, I don't believe GI will take that kind of risk. The only way I'd see that changing is if all major media outlets also came down hard on MTs.

[@laughandreload7005]

One of the points made is that loot boxes and cash shops are used to help fund new events in these games. This all depends on what game you are looking at. A lot of them will have a Halloween or Christmas event, yes. But how many of them will make a NEW event come next year, or just reuse the same content? Guild Wars 2, ESO, and basically any MMO will just recycle the same content from 3-4 years ago. Cash shop items help fund more cash shop items. Very rarely will meaningful content be released in these games as a result of cash shops/loot boxes.

[@notmemaybe5770]

Nice discussion on microtransactions and the death of gaming, very somber. D': I hope to see Hanson weigh-in on this too, when he's back

[@SadalDay]

Wolfenstein 2 will sell well imo, one thing you didnt mention was some people have lost all trust in certain publishers, in a case like watch dogs 2 not selling as well as projected (that had co-op mp btw) its more of a reflection of having no faith in UBI after WD 1 and those downgrades and choreographed gameplay demos at e3 didnt help their cause either. The other examples such as prey i agree, i feel dishonored in its own way appeals to a much more narrow playerbase due to being known as a stealth game as many people feel turned off by stealth in contrast to say years ago

[@SqueebPlays]

The Ethical Pixel You can have just as much fun hacking everybody to death too that's what I don't get, they just hear stealth and freak out.

[@allieversaid]

$$$. Thanks to Daddy Mac for showing. Great discussions. Reiner, you are like a conduit and express how a lot of people feel. But quit paying walls.

[@ruthlesssavagehatred6428]

The clap transitions in this episode were hilariously bad haha I love it!

[@SadalDay]

41:19 fucking Boom *drops mic on point as always Andy

[@TheDreddLobster]

I think someone high up at EA played the single player of Battlefront 2 and said, "That's enough single player for a decade".

[@fancypants5782]

20 minutes in and I really like the guy in the white shirt. He has the best opinion on microtransactions.

[@clintonleonard5187]

The best microtransactions of all was one of the originals: Hats in TF2. Because they understood the key aspect of collectibles: trading. Collectibles are way more fun when you can aquire them by using what you already have.

[@DaBigBase]

Yeah I agree completely with Reiner about the story stuff of the Evil Within 2. Sebastian never really interested me as a character and it seems by doubling down on him and his family they really just push aside the story of the first game for this soft reboot that only has the thinnest connection to the first game. It would have been better off to go Silent Hill and just have this story be with a fresh protagonist and the family dynamic without having to take the time to try to jangle the first game into it. Also could've kept the organization as more mysterious then they did by keeping them further in the background, lost a lot if it's luster when it gives you the how to sausage is made. I also agree with Suriel this feels like if you like the RE4 gameplay but not how action-y it got with maybe 5 and especially 6 then this is a good and challenging return to form. There's a post credit teaser to something else going on so it's certainly not a definitive end regardless of the climax. I'm not a fan of those types of things but it's still there, Suriel might've missed it or something. Tie that together with all the untouched plot lines still dangling from the 1st game and I'd be interested to see how it could be tied together in a third, along with expanding the soft semi open world concept that I think they did a good job with for a first attempt. I do miss Tim though he was the best horror fan/reviewer of the office and probably in the industry.

[@WhoFramedMSG]

Damnnn that Reiner rant was epic

[@cptclown2110]

It's like everyone ganged up wanting to bash on evil within 2. The game is fantastic. It most certainly plays/feels like RE4 and silent hill. I love where the RE series is going, but I'm so glad evil within is doing what it is doing

[@MrGermanipod]

miller described it perfectly. spot on about the publishers

[@DanishingAct]

Loved seeing andy mac on this.

[@WhoFramedMSG]

Does it make the game better? No, it makes it worse cause it alters the balance of the game. You guys should be reviewing in such a way that reflects that.

[@DenverHarward]

Great to hear some rational talk about all the microtransaction bullshit going on in the industry and the sad closing of Visceral... But The Witcher 3 should have won in that GOTY bracket imho :P

[@jasonkrug7928]

The gambling label is a tricky one. Where do we draw the line? Are the gumball machines with random prices gambling? Are baseball cards gambling? I think developers get away with it because with loot boxes, like examples I mentioned, you always get something. Whether it's in-game currency or crappy sprays, you get something. Whereas, w/ slot machines you rarely get anything, and it's purely about money.

[@superstatus2640]

Oh man, the Conflict games were so badass!

[@AndrewMalkin]

Mario's Picross is the best one. I have hundreds of hours invested into playing the time attack before I go to sleep. It's available on the eShop.

[@DeadWhiteButterflies]

Shifts in the market place: we want open access to your wallet whenever we want. The big publishers are behaving like casino companies and it's only now that it's becoming even more brazen.

[@benw7138]

I like how Andy calls him Cereal.

[@bloodandteeth]

You ruined my favorite podcast Andy!!! lol thanks for another awesome podcast guys 👍👍

[@jeremyoverell2038]

Great episode. Loot boxes, crates etc.. Are derived straight from slot machines it's gambling it's wrong and it shouldn't be in video games period.

[@SJPace1776]

I think the biggest point is the market being complicit in these trends. I have never bought DLC, microtransactions, or loot boxes. I pre order games and don't buy used to support games I enjoy. I am clearly the minority and my love of single player games means may have less choices in the future.

[@metalmilitia89]

The only loot box containing game I play is overwatch, and I have never purchased one. All of them are purely cosmetic, so it doesn't affect gameplay at all. I do hate these predatory boxes that rely on gambling in order to establish progression.

[@Choteron3]

thats amazing. I hope there are more players like you. lootboxes are the cancer of videogames.

[@JoeyJoJoJoestarJuniorShabadoo]

Microtransactions are why game prices have remained flat for so long. These big AAA publishers are selling units at a loss because they make so much more off getting children hooked on gambling.

[@residentevilclone]

In game purchases has to be so much more complicated than everyone knows. Gamers want more. Companies want more. Costs for production are insane. Cost of living for employees are insane. Game prices have been the same for well over 10 years. I don’t think the answer is micro transactions, especially when the base game suffers greatly from something behind a paywall. Quality of experience shouldn’t be tarnished. Other games (WWE 2K18) have crates and all it does is limit the gamer. It’s gotta be figured out or gaming will take a turn for the worse.

[@umiluv]

I never support shitty microtransactions that affect gameplay. I will only buy DLC packs if they're on sale (on Steam) and I will very rarely purchase cosmetic microtransactions if I want to support the devs (like the Persona 5 Catherine skin pack). I completely agree with Miller, that it cheapens the experience. There's something completely different about farming for Pinchy the lobster pet in WoW than buying a pet in the marketplace. It's a badge of honor knowing that you spent days fishing for the pet. Some people might think you're crazy but like Andy said, there's also something awesome about having a goal and then feeling like you accomplished something by achieving it.

[@rustman2186]

You did fine Andy, don't be so hard on yourself.

[@paulthompson8649]

Video gaming is already an addiction for thousands of people. Being able to be a powerful character that's looks strong or beautiful is an escape from reality in a bad psychosis way for lots of people. Adding loot boxes is just adding to the psychosis. But people have the freedom and right to spend their money and time the way the want. But the gaming industry is already an addiction.

[@Jrey2690]

I've never bought a micro-transaction . Ever.

[@Vilis_Farthuk]

I sent a long feedback e-mail to Game Informer saying how Matt Miller is an Old Man Yelling at Clouds. This is the same thing that happened with DLC and why everyone complained about every game having multiplayer. There will be a fan backlash, the community and streamers will stop buying loot boxes and there will be another year of "evil" loot boxes before games start doing it smarter and less "evil". The problem is Matt Miller's argument stems from "These are affecting how I think games should be." which is not a good argument base. Star Wars Battlefront 2's system is a terrible idea. Shadow of War's system does not affect how I play the game at all and I kind of forget they are a thing. People need to learn impulse control. Maybe screwing over consumers will teach more people to think about how they're spending their money, again.

[@bdun0912]

I have to be honest, GI used to be my top site for horror game reviews (oh how I miss tim turi) but I feel like Suriel wasn’t a great match for the review. I like different opinions but as someone who loves horror and enjoyed the first game he didn’t give me any information I would want or need. Even with Andy’s questions he went off topic to really stiff mechanics talk. Also, I never played bioshock but the comparisons to Arkham I think are a stretch. Hanson on the other hand, should worry about Andy being the better fit as host lol

[@mecharobots]

I find the evil within 2 improves on all aspects from.the first game. I find the story is much better woth good twists and also sebastian is alot more interesting and has more of a emotional connection . The skill upgrades are really good like the stealth as that helped me alot whenni only had only 8 shotgun shells and a 3 hard enemies in the open area of the game.

[@michaelmedina1487]

I'm disgusted by these companies. I don't buy random loot boxes. I do not want to be manipulated behind the scenes of my games or any of my apps for that matter. Time to break down a billion dollar wall.

[@reshypoo9447]

"Mainstream Audience is the Worst thing that Ever happened to Video Games!" - Game informer 2017.

[@joeyeggz]

If you buy loot boxes and can't control yourself to not have the skin or weapon you want, that's your problem. I bet the same people also go to dive bars and eat the free potato chips while they down beers at twice the rate as a normal. If you can't realize when you are being marketed to you need to wake TF up. Control yourself. You want to talk about addiction or morally wrong you should try having a heroin addiction and see how serious your so called loot box addiction is.

[@dhet]

When I was around 16 my 7 yr old cousin used to crush me at super smash bros.

[@likenem]

The one good thing about Nintendo being Stuck in the Past it will be 10 years before we see this shit trickle down into their games.

[@FBuilding]

Andy is excellent. You guys at GI should hire him, rather than these punctual freelance gigs. You monsters.

[@aliquidgaming1068]

We all know game journalist arent looked at as legitimate journalists, but we rely on them for news and reviews etc. Well then if we are living in the era of many games being a service then it falls on them to step up to the plate and include a companies business practices, i.e. microtransactions, into the their reviews, news updates and discussions. Gamers have already spoken out and voted with their wallets as much as they can. These journalist are part of us consumers and gaming community/culture. So it's time to "PIVOT" how games are discussed and reviewed. Im not completely against microtransactions but EA and Activision is going way too damn far with it.

[@KadSkirata]

MTS' are why I wont be buying Battlefront II...its quite sad how this has become the norm/standard so to say. I've never bought MTS' and never will. And with Activisions patent, I'll probably skip picking up D2 - along with any future game they publish. Dont want to support them in anyway... This host is so much better than Hanson. He should be the regular host.

[@muhsick]

Money > Art

[@chucknv5482]

Popcorn time

[@mr.sarcastic8833]

The current videogame industry landscape is thanks to gamers and journalists/critics who are always concern with how much content has a game; how many hours can someone play a videogame. Gamers expect to had an ""infinite" play time. The funny thing is that, the vast majority of gamers don´t even finish the games they play. Also because a AAA games cost much more to develop they need to sell more. 1 or 2 million are not enough (like in the PS1 era). My hot take: Gamers got what they deserved. Money talks.

[@clintonleonard5187]

Dude, I would be so down for some shorter games. They get boring when they're too long, unless it evolves the entire time. Long RPGs are great because you can progress outside of the story, all the time. Long single player action games get super boring.

[@wallacerigby4393]

No worries for Star Wars. Think Horizon Zero Dawn and less multiplayer & loot boxes.

[@Nergal134]

What makes you say that?

[@wallacerigby4393]

Nergal134 because people are just putting all their worst fears and not thinking of the positive changes. Even Uncharted had a open area section and the Stand alone DLC had a even bigger open area. The Witcher 3 set a benchmark of great storytelling and open world. Yea EA could do the most evil thing with Starwars Single player game but I think chances are it’ll be more positive imho.

[@Nergal134]

I meant what makes you think this is gonna be anything like Horizon Zero Dawn and not, say, Destiny 2? Btw, what positive changes are to be found in this entire story? People getting laid off? No more Dead Space?

[@razamadaz3417]

Kinda stupid there wearing headphones whilst sat next to each other.

[@mr.sarcastic8833]

No hanson? well seems like i´m watching the show for the first time. lol?.

[@paroxysmalone]

Good show but poorly executed claptrans

[@danielgough1981]

A lot of ignorance from the host regarding the game industry lol

[@Laekith]

Let's be honest here, western games are doomed

[@adamshalashaska5698]

Prey, Dishonored and Resident Evil 7 are FPS trash, ofcourse they didnt do good. You can't say single player is on the decline because these FPS trash games are flopping. People that play single player games like third person games, they dont want to stare at a fucking gun or hands for 60 hour because this is not CoD

[@tjames6996]

Can't tell if serious or troll..