Giants, Spiritual Warfare, and Divine Violence: An Orthodox Perspective (w/ Fr. Stephen De Young)

[@DjangoFatt]

If you're familiar with the Lord of Spirits or The Whole Counsel of God podcast, you know this is going to be an absolute treat!

[@evans3922]

Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.Lift up your heads, you gates; lift them up, you ancient doors, that the King of glory may come in.(Pslm24:8-9)

[@George-ur8ow]

In Orthodoxy, this is a prophecy of the Harrowing of Hades. I believe Roman Catholics and most "high church" Protestants hold the same, or similar view.

[@СаваСтанковић-с7к]

@@George-ur8ow Well, let's just hope the Catholics don't start interpreting it as St Peter, as they've done with prophet Daniel's visions.

[@George-ur8ow]

@@СаваСтанковић-с7к is that dogma, or, are you "just saying" and thereby obviously looking to start a quarrel with another online warrior - perhaps one as mighty as yourself - if such an internet foe dareth to exist to challenge thee!

[@olgakarpushina492]

@@George-ur8ow yeah, go fractal, smite those KZbin warriors with your mighty sarcasm! Attaboy! Oh, pardon, kind sire. Attaknight! 😆

[@George-ur8ow]

@@olgakarpushina492 😅👍

[@IC_XC_NIKA]

Two Orthodox scholars back to back!! That's how you start the year off! 😊

[@dannoel2351]

You love KZbin!

[@IC_XC_NIKA]

@@dannoel2351 hahaha if it's an Orthodox scholar then yes I do lol 😅

[@jterrellielli7058]

Don’t worry. Hell ruin it by posting that Reformed Baptist schmuck.

[@IC_XC_NIKA]

@@jterrellielli7058 hahaha 😂😂 Unfortunately very possible lol

[@Nicholas_Powell]

I love your profile picture brother. Fills my heart with joy thinking about my own life. God bless you and your family and may we both celebrate Great and Holy Pascha tonight in love for each other and the resurrection of our Lord and Savior.

[@traceyedson9652]

Perhaps Fr DeYoung’s best interview yet. And Austin, you don’t know how joyful it is to hear such an excellent discussion between evangelicalism & Orthodoxy.

[@erikamohrmann7986]

This is so true. I grew up Protestant till I was 12, so at this point it’s still over half my life as I’m still in my early twenties. All my best friends are Protestant and I go to a Protestant college with some amazing people and Christians I really admire. In the Orthodox Church, though it has changed, for a while I didn’t know anyone whose faith I admired or who seemed so whole heartedly in love with Christ as did many of my Protestant friends. Also in the Orthodox Church I found a lot of people who had been hurt in the Protestant church and spoke poorly of it, and there was this “better than thou” spirit I experienced so very often. On the Protestant side, though many of my friends were very supportive, anyone who didn’t know me seemed to really look down upon the Orthodox Church and not willing to actually listen. When I decided to follow Christ myself my senior year of high school, these were really tough voices coming in from every side, and this channel as well as Ten Minute Bible Hour really helped me with that reconciliation in my own heart. All that is to say, these conversations are doing more than these people can know and I’m so grateful.

[@ireneorthodoxy]

I always enjoy Austin's interviews. He is the best interviewer. I have commented before, never interrupts the guest speaking. It makes the interview so much more enjoyable. Thank You.

[@GospelSimplicity]

Wow, thank you!

[@annabellah8809]

I most admire Father De Young for his candor and confidence when he speaks. It is getting harder and harder to find people who only care about being pc and not offending. We need the truth.

[@brendabrinkmanpasichnyk3500]

It says in bible not to call anyone else Father, but God.

[@prosoblue647]

Fr. De Young is the priest of the Orthodox Church closest to me. I’m only an inquirer into Orthodoxy at the moment so I decided to buy his about the Bible, The Whole Council of God. It only just arrived in my mailbox today but I got say I love his writing style. Can’t wait to visit my first Divine Liturgy one day and meet him

[@showmeanedge]

I hope you've since attended. ☦️

[@elyudekrane15]

Fr Stephen De Young is a beast

[@premodernprejudices3027]

Really happy to finally see some fellow Orthodox covering this topic. I’ve long felt like I was alone and that people thought I was crazy.

[@GospelSimplicity]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@stevecochran9078]

I've learned more from Fr. Stephen and his Lord of Spirits podcast cohost from their various podcasts in the last 7 years or so than I learned in my previous life. Others too have contributed to that knowledge, but theirs have made up the bulk of my learning. I'm now in the middle of my late 50s.

[@straightjak1t]

I’m right there with you. I’m 30 but the last two years of listening to Fr. Stephen DeYoung and Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick has taught me more and brought me closer to Christ than my 28 years of Church of Christ attendance. May God be with you on your journey, brother. 🙏🏼

[@όαγωνιστής-θ6θ]

This is going to be a real banger

[@maxinehall572]

I CANNOT WAIT! Love his books and Podcast ‘The Lord of Spirits’ on Ancient Faith Radio’. I’m always left thinking this is such a huge part of our faith and yet it is virtually unheard of elsewhere. THANK YOU FOR THIS.

[@knuttyse7883]

I can recomend the audiobook. It is read by the author. :)

[@TylerNGOakley]

Just finished this book, id highly recommend it to any Christian wanting to learn more about the old testament. It really changes the whole way you view it.

[@nathanw.3187]

If anyone wants to buy, the book is on audible and fairly short. Looking foward to watching this!

[@ivanos_95]

Even if we ignore the theology itself, violence in the Old Covenant is a modern dilemma that have grown uniquely in societies which are strongly influenced by the New Covenant and amongst people who take their security for granted, because such violence was not only a reality for even the most civilized individuals before Christianity, but also those individuals wouldn't accept a pacifist religion which isn't able to organize a society in a militant manner.

[@sonicman52]

Yes, this 🙌🏽

[@peaceandjoy2568]

The violence in the Old Testament and the "Wrath of God" do not bother me nor make me doubt His goodness. I live in a third world country. The life I know is hard and cruel, full of dangers of all sorts. Life in this setting is unjust not because God is not good but because people are. I find malevolence in almost every step of the way. There is violence, hatred, envy, betrayal, greed and pride operating in most people, at times even in one's own family. In this fallen human jungle the poor can be just as greedy as the rich, the victim just as prideful as the oppressor. That is why when the Bible speaks of God's "violence" I understand and it gives me hope. Because the evil that is very real will be accountable to this God Who metes out perfect justice for the innocent. God's violence speaks to me of His Perfect Justice and Mercy for those like myself who bear the brunt of the world's malevolence, whose heads are bloody "under the bludgeonings of chance" as Henley's poem says. For the innocent who have noone but God, God is a Warrior.

[@zealandsword9557]

Amen and Amen, our first world countries have a hard time understanding this.

[@kevinhughes3477]

It's interesting because even when I was a protestant, I was never convinced by the idea that if the Bible records something that means it's good, because if you read the text, it super often condemns what's going on.

[@vancesnyder2426]

Well done interview, young man. It was a pleasure hearing Fr. Stephen De Young and your insightful questions. Thank you. My viewpoints have been evolving as I study Early Ancient Literature and the Sons of God and the Giants.

[@stevenhunter3345]

Another great conversation! What I love about Austin's content and his approach to interviews is that he asks deep, penetrating questions and then gives his guest time to develop their answer.

[@GospelSimplicity]

Thanks Steven! That's precisely what I try to do, so I'm glad that it's working

[@SweetPeteUnleashed]

You're doing great work, Austin! It is so good to see civil discussions happening between the various denominations and it is good to see folk not shying away from these more difficult to digest aspects of scripture... Since God blessed me with a Christian heart about 3 months ago I've had a deep thirst to catch up on my theology and to find out where I fit into all of this... Sometimes the division and differing ideas between the various denominations can become a bit of a headache, but the sense of unity I find on channels like yours is a breath of fresh air and it helps to deepen my faith tremendously. Keep up the good work and God bless! 🕊️✨

[@lorenzbeaumacc1175]

Trust me don't expect unity amongst the christendom. Matter fact you will witness more and more Christians turning on each other in these coming last days than anything else. Christ said he didn't come to unite but he came to cause division between the just and the unjust seeds. Shoo there is even division within families, blood relatives etc.. And you think you won't come across division in the church. Just stay focused on your personal relationship between you and your creator and make sure your name is written in the book of life when you depart from this earth. The rest is out of your control. I go to a church that preaches love and forgiveness but yet I can still see people hate on me or being jealous of me. But it's alright though cause God knows my heart which is not of a hypocrite.

[@justanotherlikeyou]

What were these "giant" clans doing that were considered by the Lord Jesus Christ, Yahweh, the God of Israel, to be abominations? "For You hated the inhabitants of Your holy land long ago, because they practiced very hateful works of sorcery and unholy rites. These unmerciful murderers of children who ate sacrificial meals of human flesh and blood, these initiates in the midst of an orgy, these parents and murderers of helpless children- You willed to destroy by the hands of our fathers, that the land most precious of all to You might be a worthy colony of the servants of God."- Book of Wisdom, chapter 12, verses 3-7, The Orthodox Study Bible.

[@trevorbinning4683]

Can’t wait! This will be a very special episode!

[@lazywastelander5250]

Phenomenal podcast. You tell stories in a way that brings them to life in my imagination Father, thank you!

[@basilel-salviti6910]

This book is on my reading list this year. I look forward to this conversation.

[@joolz5747]

Love the opening statement! Excited! Spiritual warfare fought by humans!!! Excellent opener! Thank you so much! You have become so good over time! Yes! Awesome! 😊

[@joanasaad915]

Wow! Just what I needed to hear. Thanks for having so many great scholars on and for asking so many great questions.

[@vc6984]

This is why we need the church to teach and we can not just read the bible and understand or argue against as so many atheist do and knock Christians on their tails.

[@IamValentina66]

Go Orthodox!

[@christianlacroix5430]

I want to see a discussion between Fr. Stephen De Young and Michael Heiser.

[@omarmorillo9959]

Yes! This needs to happen!

[@isaiahkerstetter3142]

That's essentially what I want to ask for on the LoS Q&A tomorrow.

[@hannahb2383]

@@isaiahkerstetter3142 do it!

[@nuzzi6620]

What’s the correlation between the two?

[@josiahkeen]

@@nuzzi6620 father Stephen has picked up on many of the same themes/topics as Heiser like spiritual warfare and the interpretation of Psalm 82 as the divine council

[@anniel.3396]

Loved this. Thank you both!

[@windowsoflife]

The most compelling view I’ve heard. Thanks!

[@matthewiovino6566]

I too had the same experience with The Stranger. Its still has weight in my world view when im considering things apathetically, I remember how important it is to make an active choice to apply meaning to one's life.

[@wartimemodels]

Excellent! Father Stephen is fantastic.

[@DJRoll15]

I’m in the middle of his book and it’s pretty fascinating. I’m learning new things even though I’ve listened to Michael heisers book. It’s not too difficult to read and it hits the point.

[@senordiaz1]

I always appeal to the sovereignty of God. If there is something that seems wrong about Him to us it is our fragile understanding not His error. Here is part of His response to Job: Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements-surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 6 On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, 7 when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? 8 “Or who shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb, 9 when I made clouds its garment and thick darkness its swaddling band, 10 and prescribed limits for it and set bars and doors, 11 and said, ‘Thus far shall you come, and no farther, and here shall your proud waves be stayed’? 12 “Have you commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its place, 13 that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth, and the wicked be shaken out of it? 14 It is changed like clay under the seal, and its features stand out like a garment. 15 From the wicked their light is withheld, and their uplifted arm is broken. 16 “Have you entered into the springs of the sea, or walked in the recesses of the deep? 17 Have the gates of death been revealed to you, or have you seen the gates of deep darkness? 18 Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth? Declare, if you know all this.

[@dawnmuir5052]

Fr Stephen - wonderful as always! I have the book and am looking forward to details on this talk.

[@ToniMilak]

This was such an interesting, affable interview! Thank you both!

[@isaiahkerstetter3142]

When will we get a conversation between Dr. Michael S. Heiser and Fr. Stephen J. DeYoung going?!

[@nuzzi6620]

What’s the correlation between the two? I’ve seen his name mentioned a couple times?

[@isaiahkerstetter3142]

@@nuzzi6620 Dr. Heiser works in the same field as Fr. DeYoung. His works include "The Unseen Realm" and it's primer "Supernatural". His work covered the same material as the first few episodes of "The Lord of Spirits Podcast".

[@Sonwalkers247]

@@isaiahkerstetter3142 Also Dr Heiser is one of the founders of Logos Bible Software. Would be an interesting chat.

[@Pcytripper]

Sadly, Dr. Heiser recently passed away and they never got the opportunity to have a public talk. Father De Young spoke on Dr. Heiser after his passing on LoS, and I think his answer was great, full of deep respect for the man while not giving his works a pass.

[@sabrinalisten]

Great interview - thank you.

[@zaccheusanton9470]

Stellar show!

[@danvan2683]

Thank you for these top shelf interviews, I've found myself going from way over my head to I've heard of that to this nuance that I hadn't considered, I grew up Mormon and accepted a lot of critique on Christianity produced by Mormonism, it turns out I was pretty ignorant, (understatement)

[@micahwatz1148]

Its simple. We are all spoiled. Most of us never even had to kill the meat we eat. We dont cut the animal apart. We dont deal with child death like they did. Most people throughout history had to fight to survive, literally. But heres the thing, were still living in that world. If theres war, im glad im on Gods side.

[@vc6984]

Trey Smiths series on Demons and preflood earth, Noah, and book of Enoch is very detailed in what Father Deyoung is saying.

[@stephenyoung8069]

Few times in my life have I clicked a video this hard

[@СаваСтанковић-с7к]

Your name suggests you have a conflict of interests watching this video...

[@stephenyoung8069]

@@СаваСтанковић-с7к lol

[@Soulja4ChristWeAreAtWar]

I still think there were actual giants involved as well. Fallen angels (the Watchers); Nephilum, who were giants(children of the Watchers and human women thru sexual rituals, where we get demons). There were biblical measurements for how tall the giants were.

[@George-ur8ow]

"Are you for us, or for our enemies?" Joshua asked. The preincarnate Christ seemed to reply with non-answer, saying "No". The important question in the below passage is not whether God was on the side of the Hebrews, but whether the Hebrews were on God's side. "And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, “Are You for us or for our adversaries?” So He said, “No, but as Commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and said to Him, “What does my Lord say to His servant?” Then the Commander of the Lord’s army said to Joshua, “Take your sandal off your foot, for the place where you stand is holy.” And Joshua did so." Joshua 5:13-15

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

Yes I love that!

[@justanotherlikeyou]

"The preincarnate Christ seemed to reply with non-answer" Joshua didn't encounter the pre-incarnate Christ, he encountered the living post-incarnate, post-resurrectional Christ. Check out what Fr. Stephen De Young has to say about it on the podcast Lord of Spirits.

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

@@justanotherlikeyou Do you remember which episode?

[@justanotherlikeyou]

@@colmwhateveryoulike3240 He's talked about it more than once, but in the last episode entitled "Is The Heavenly Man The Man From Heaven?" he treats it in greater detail, if I recall.

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

@@justanotherlikeyou Cool thanks. I haven't listened in a while I got sucked into Search the Scriptures.

[@dorinmicu7511]

Very, very useful. God bless!

[@garloc9]

You should have Dr. Adam Koontz on to discuss the state of modern American Lutheranism and its unique position between among other Protestant denominations.

[@jterrellielli7058]

Excellent interview. Nice questions.

[@GospelSimplicity]

Thanks!

[@carlroberts6128]

I am grandparent age and need no therapist, but I thoroughly enjoyed this lesson about God's violence and you are doing wonderful work!

[@riverjao]

Great stuff. Brad Jersak, another Orthodox theologian, has a great book on Old Test violence called “A More Christlike God.” And another related called “A More Christlike Word.”

[@annalynn9325]

Really informative...and I would like to read more

[@Blaisesongs]

About an hour 20 minutes begs the question, has the world reached "that point" again? Especially with the "sacrifices" of the unborn. The blood of millions of innocents a year surely cries out after nearly 50 years of abortion on demand.

[@mariaathanassiou5264]

What about the millions of the born Christians in the Middle East that have been genocided since 2000AD and in the 20th Century and before? Why are we indifferent ro that?

[@joshw3010]

I bought The Stranger from a thrift store back in 2009, but I've never read it. I guess it's time for me to dig it up.

[@theunknownone2189]

I actually have this book

[@protestanttoorthodox3625]

Lord of the Spirits podcast!!!

[@NavelOrangeGazer]

I cannot recommend the book enough.

[@mariaathanassiou5264]

First and foremost the entire hymnology of the Orthodox Church is Old Testament based, with Psalms and Proverbs constituting the basis for the hymnography, and the Liturgy is deeply steeped in Judaic tradition of the times of Christ, based on the Liturgy of St James the Just the Brother of the Lord. This Judaic tradition was what the Apostles knew. In addition to the parts mention by Fr De Young, during Holy Week we remember Joseph's story, Jonah, the Three Youths in the Furnace, Ezekiel, Elijah, Daniel. Christmas and multiple Vesperal services have other Old Testament readings. Our icons portray the Jewish Patriarchs and Prophets as our Saints, the Creation, the Sacrifice of Abraham, the visit of the 3 angels. The Theotokos is portrayed as the Burning Bush of Moses, in the Resurrection icon Jesus raises Adam and Eve, first, the genealogy of Jesus is shown as a depiction of the Tree of Life. The Orthodox Old Testament includes Macabees and more books than the Protestant Bible

[@rhondarockhound622]

In the Lutheran Church we were only exposed to the lectionary. When our kids grew up they decided to read the whole bible from beginning to end. They had no tools, training, or ancient context, only their own world view. They pretty much lost their faith. I’ve asked other elderly friends. Their adult children have left too. Now we are a bunch of boomers, slowly dying, while our non denominational friends are booming. The difference is -is they are tackling these hard to explain sections.

[@JR.B-k2u]

My word cannot return void, it's the way the lord has went about dealing with all the issues before him, in an immaculate way, completely bamboozled Satan with the work of the cross, prior to that those battles old testament style and reflected in heaven also, kingdom against kingdom principalities and unseen wonders I'd love to catch a glimpse of

[@windowsoflife]

I believe another perspective to your question re contemporary application, such as witch trials, is because the telos has arrived and shall finalize the salvation of the cosmos. Such directives were most likely necessary because Christ was on his way, and before the fullness of time, the battle raged to wipe out the people of God, culminating in the Virgin. We see Herod driven by the same spirit of anti-Christ. This side of the empty tomb, the God of peace shall soon crush Satan under our feet. Until then, the sermon on the mount leads the way, love of enemies, etc.

[@lyralong]

excellent

[@scottmcloughlin4371]

Regarding differing interpretations, *all interpretations that harmonize are accurate.* Is one facet of a diamond "the real facet?" No. Is one side of a rectangle "the real side?" No. There is no requirement for "one interpretation." The requirement is for accurate interpretations to harmonize.

[@mattprice516]

My issue with Fr de Young's "it isn't genocide, it's removing the demonic rituals of a clan by any means necessary" take is that I've yet to hear his explanation for why the infants in these groups needed to be killed, rather than ritually adopted into the people of Israel. There are passages in the OT that explicitly command killing infants. I want to believe Fr de Young's take on divine violence is correct, but I can't reconcile his explanation with the infanticide texts (e.g 1 Samuel 15:3).

[@GospelSimplicity]

That would've been an interesting point to press in on. Thanks for the feedback!

[@aleksakovacevic3350]

He did an interview on orthodox shahada maybe it’s on there

[@shannoncrawford7212]

This conversation has probably pushed the modern western Christian worldview farther than its comfortable with for many. And I don’t disagree with much of what has been discussed. But it may not go far enough, into the reasons why God commanded they be wiped out. There was a genetic component involved with these people groups living in Canaan. In that this is where the continuation of the human and fallen supernatural beings genetic mixing was occurring post flood. It sounds like he holds to some belief that there was some supernatural elements related to these ancient peoples belief structure regarding their fertility. But does not believe there was actual interbreeding. Dr. Michael Heiser (who was recently on the show) is probably the most prominent OT scholar who delves into this. But from what I have seen, doesn’t really delve deeply into this period and aspect of history (and the command to wipe these people out), but I may be mistaken. Gary Wayne does a lot of work in this same area. I don’t believe he has the formal education of Heiser, but has been studying these aspects of the scriptures, as well as prophecy most of his adult life. His most recent book is the Genesis 6 conspiracy. His work does put a heavy emphasis on how the supernatural realm has directly involved itself throughout history up to the present, and how he believes it fits into future prophecy. So there may be a bit more reliance on other historical documents, artifacts, and just studying of how secret societies/occult, etc operate to bring about Satan’s will in our physical world in regards to more modern history. And as with anyone, it can get more speculative when talking about future prophecy. But he does go deeper into the people groups that were in Canaan at this time and their relationship to/with supernatural genetic mixing. And how they fit (or don’t fit) into the Biblical table of nations, and the reasons behind that. God used the flood to wipe out the antediluvian Nephilim (part human - part supernatural being hybrids). But they continued this practice (to a lesser degree) post flood. And the people groups in this area were/contained this genetic make up. And this could (and IMO is) be why God commanded total annihilation. I know at the outset many will have immediate objections when hearing this, and there is a lot that still has to be thought through and explained, from a Biblical perspective and worldview, before anyone should accept this as truth. The information is out there; Heiser, Gary Wayne, Timothy Alberino, NYSTV (David Carrico and John Pounders are a few I would recommend but I’m sure there are more. And obviously we are not all going to agree 100% with any other person. But the research (Biblical and historical) and books and discussions are available, as well as opposing view points, if people wish to look into the subject further. Each individual that chooses to look more deeply into these subjects has to determine if/what aligns with scripture. And where scripture speaks about a matter but isn’t definitive on specific details, what has the highest probability of being the truth, through the use of the other historical documentation and evidences we do have (but that do not contradict the Bible). And weight those accordingly, to what is being used to determine their truthfulness, or probability of being correct/historically accurate. As far as the actual act of interbreeding. The angels that came to Sodom and Gomorrah appeared as men, but the men of the city somehow recognized them as supernatural beings, yet demanded to have sex with them. Though it doesn’t detail how or why they thought that this could happen, they clearly were intent upon it. And you do have to put some stock (although not as inspired Canon, more as historical narrative) into extra-biblical texts to develop a view on how God put a stop to the practice of human interbreeding by the fallen supernatural beings. They were bound and the disembodied spirits of their dead offspring wander the earth as demons (they were not fully human and don’t have a human soul). And almost all ancient cultures had beliefs that their gods were actual supernatural beings, and also had offspring with humans (demigods). A belief that was grounded in the reality in which they (or their ancestors) lived, not just made up fables. But contradictory to the Biblical narrative, as they worshiped these gods, instead of treating them as evil abominations.

[@kostpap3554]

He was asked about this passage in the video "God is a Man of War Pt.1 | Fr. Stephen De Young" by Orthodox Shahada. The question starts around 1:53:20 or so. Basically his answer is that the context of the whole commandments concerning the Amalekites is that the Israelites are not supposed to take anything of theirs. No spoils, no slaves, not even lifestock to feed themselves after the battles. They are executing God's judgment towards these people, and only that. They can't take anything for themselves (which is what Saul does by the way), and to directly quote him "this type of language includes a good notion of hyperbole" kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4LMhouZZ62GnLc

[@johnpaulhumphrey2981]

This was an AMAZING interview. I really appreciated the ritual vs ethnic grouping perspective, but there is still an uncomfortable (for me) question. How come in some cases the infants were slaughtered? Is it to rescue them from demons and thus an act of mercy? That is the only thing my fragile brain can think of. Any perspectives on that?

[@omarmorillo9959]

Yes, that’s my perspective as well. If you listen to his interview on the Orthodox Shahada KZbin channel he speaks on this topic specifically and I think he agrees with your perspective as well. Also we should not assume that everyone slaughtered is automatically “not saved” if you want to use this terminology.

[@mariaathanassiou5264]

The Old Testament can be summarized as all the ways HUMANS break their Testament with God through their apostasy and violence yet He remains true to His Word

[@shannoncrawford7212]

This conversation has probably pushed the modern western Christian worldview farther than its comfortable with for many. And I don’t disagree with much of what has been discussed. But it may not go far enough, into the reasons why God commanded they be wiped out. There was a genetic component involved with these people groups living in Canaan. In that this is where the continuation of the human and fallen supernatural beings genetic mixing was occurring post flood. It sounds like he holds to some belief that there was some supernatural elements related to these ancient peoples belief structure regarding their fertility. But does not believe there was actual interbreeding. Dr. Michael Heiser (who was recently on the show) is probably the most prominent OT scholar who delves into this. But from what I have seen, doesn’t really delve deeply into this period and aspect of history (and the command to wipe these people out), but I may be mistaken. Gary Wayne does a lot of work in this same area. I don’t believe he has the formal education of Heiser, but has been studying these aspects of the scriptures, as well as prophecy most of his adult life. His most recent book is the Genesis 6 conspiracy. His work does put a heavy emphasis on how the supernatural realm has directly involved itself throughout history up to the present, and how he believes it fits into future prophecy. So there may be a bit more reliance on other historical documents, artifacts, and just studying of how secret societies/occult, etc operate to bring about Satan’s will in our physical world in regards to more modern history. And as with anyone, it can get more speculative when talking about future prophecy. But he does go deeper into the people groups that were in Canaan at this time and their relationship to/with supernatural genetic mixing. And how they fit (or don’t fit) into the Biblical table of nations, and the reasons behind that. God used the flood to wipe out the antediluvian Nephilim (part human - part supernatural being hybrids). But they continued this practice (to a lesser degree) post flood. And the people groups in this area were/contained this genetic make up. And this could be (and IMO is) why God commanded total annihilation. I know at the outset many will have immediate objections when hearing about human/supernatural hybrids, and there is a lot that still has to be thought through and explained, from a Biblical perspective and worldview, before anyone should accept this as truth. The information is out there; Heiser, Gary Wayne, Timothy Alberino, NYSTV (David Carrico and John Pounders are a few I would recommend but I’m sure there are more. And obviously we are not all going to agree 100% with any other person. But the research (Biblical and historical) and books and discussions are available, as well as opposing view points, if people wish to look into the subject further. Each individual that chooses to look more deeply into these subjects has to determine if/what aligns with scripture. And where scripture speaks about a matter but isn’t definitive on specific details, what has the highest probability of being the truth, through the use of the other historical documentation and evidences we do have (but that do not contradict the Bible). And weight those accordingly, to what is being used to determine their truthfulness, or probability of being correct/historically accurate. As far as the actual act of interbreeding. The angels that came to Sodom and Gomorrah appeared as men, but the men of the city somehow recognized them as supernatural beings, yet demanded to have sex with them. Though it doesn’t detail how or why they thought that this could happen, they clearly were intent upon it. And you do have to put some stock (although not as inspired Canon, more as historical narrative) into extra-biblical texts to develop a view on how God put a stop to the practice of human interbreeding by the fallen supernatural beings. They were bound and the disembodied spirits of their dead offspring wander the earth as demons (they were not fully human and don’t have a human soul). And almost all ancient cultures had beliefs that their gods were actual supernatural beings, and also had offspring with humans (demigods). A belief that was grounded in the reality in which they (or their ancestors) lived, not just made up fables. But contradictory to the Biblical narrative, as they worshiped these gods, instead of treating them as evil abominations.

[@johnpaulhumphrey2981]

@@shannoncrawford7212 how would you explain people like Ruth then? I am very open to it being a biological conception, but think that is not sufficient ground for extermination.

[@shannoncrawford7212]

@@johnpaulhumphrey2981 Ruth was a Moabite, who were descended from Lot (Shem’s lineage). The 7 nations that God commanded the Israelites to destroy (Deut. 7:1) were all descendants of Canaan (cursed by Noah, son of Ham). And they were nations that had giants (Anakim and Rephaim) the distinguishing physical characteristic of the offspring in Genesis 6 (Nephilim). And I am not dogmatic on anything that is not specifically presented in the Bible. But I do believe, of all of the options I personally have studied, this seems to be most probable. But am open to there being another reason/justification. And it does require a belief that there was supernatural interbreeding and mixing of the genetics. Which many think you are crazy if you mention it, but I feel that I am in solid company with those that do hold to this belief. Though many of those do not delve as deep into the subject as people like Michael Heiser or Gary Wayne, but just leave it at: it happened but is over and has no bearing on us (or the course of human history past that point) or any other subject matters. Deuteronomy 9:1-3 Hear, O Israel: Thou art to pass over Jordan this day, to go in to possess nations greater and mightier than thyself, cities great and fenced up to heaven, A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and of whom thou hast heard say, Who can stand before the children of Anak! Understand therefore this day, that the Lord thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the Lord hath said unto thee. Joshua 11:21-22 And at that time came Joshua, and cut off the Anakims from the mountains, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the mountains of Judah, and from all the mountains of Israel: Joshua destroyed them utterly with their cities. There was none of the Anakims left in the land of the children of Israel: only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod, there remained.

[@petarjovanovic1481]

The Stranger by Albert Camus is an obligatory read in Serbian highschools. 🙃

[@polemizator723]

17:38 Violence 23:50 30:30 42:37 1:23:29 1:27:06 Bears

[@mrwiggiewoo]

Love listening to Austin's interviews.

[@meadeadams]

Why is this interview not on the GS podcast?

[@shovas]

1:32:00 That's a weird take on Elisha and the bears. 2 Kings doesn't appear to be about that at all. The bible just records a little paragraph about the scenario with little connection to anything else.

[@dino_mt_greenwood]

Should we do a pool for the minute we have the first mention of the Book of Enoch? 🤣

[@logicaredux5205]

Ha! No kidding.

[@Shiranui115]

We also need to do one for 19th-century Germans and one-word "yes" and "no" answers! I don't think Lord of the Rings will make an appearance, though.

[@СаваСтанковић-с7к]

@@Shiranui115 Few things cause me as much fear as thinking Fr Stephen might call me "his friend", because I'm starting to think it's almost a threat. Love the guy to no end!

[@jimmueller9225]

@@СаваСтанковић-с7к 🤣

[@markwilliams1506]

AUSTIN THIS WAS GOOD. COULD CONSIDER HAVING GARY WAYNE ON YOUR SHOW, AUTHER OF " THE GENESIS 6 CONSPIRACY" BOOK ? MAYBE YOU'VE ALREADY HAD HIM ON ,I DONT KNOW.

[@joolz5747]

And I want to add that the violence in the world and all violence has always bothered me. I skip over reading it or watching. I get the gist and do not need the gruesome details. I know it is true. Just like in a violent movie that was out in the 1940’s -50’s or even later vs the more graphic movie in the modern times. I do not go to movies with violence. Just think of the movie, Passion of the Christ. I had to turn my head away a few times. I have a big imagination. So I get it! Do not need to think more about it by watching it. I do know we must believe the Bible though. I knew this was true and decided to find out why God did this, allowed it and I began to meditate on things. So it is what it is and we need not ignore the parts we do not like. As as result I went deeper. I found that we have no idea what evil and wicked really is. Satan and God are in a war from the start! We have no idea at all of the intensity or immensity or the power at all! So I went deeper and found things about the Nephilin and the reason God sent the flood! This is above our comprehension. We have no understanding. But the clue is that this is all written about. Check out the Book of Enoch. Things were happening we cannot comprehend. But I do believe that satan hates God’s children and did send his demons to impregnate the good early people. He wanted his race to dominate the world and began to do so. Anyway the violence was probably necessary because the people were all filled with that evil demon type race!!! God had to destroy the evil. I believe His people were the ones He used to do so. He had to clean out the wicked souls. He had to win and we still fight this today but back then Christ had not come here yet so it was sorta like…. throwing out the mess in the once perfect closet and then putting new clean good things back in order and making the closet new! I find this fascinating! I bought this book! Thank you!

[@lindamorgan2678]

"We" do not know how evil ..... Speak for yourself I see it all around me these days and it was alot worse in the past and through out history. Romans feeding prisoners to the lions and the crowds that would come and watch. How sick is that or even public hangings What the heck is that all about the whole town comes to watch and burning people at the stake ?

[@Noone-rt6pw]

The Bible speaks about an Angel of War! Someone see it, they might call it a God. But it be an angel. Psalm 144:1 , blessed be the Lord that teaches my fingers to war.

[@stetsonscott8209]

I used to pray this before I played drums on Sundays, mostly to deal with my OCD which would be melting me down during the set.

[@know_not_wickedness]

Father De Young is the preeminent Orthodox Scholar of our time and always entertaining. I just couldn't make it to the end because in my opinion the host's speech and mannerisms reminded me of a homosexual.

[@mattsattler8192]

You could roast marshmallows off of him

[@wyrmhatcher4594]

Did he say “White whine”?

[@constantinekarampelas9954]

The Kebra Nagash has passages that described women being impregnated by the fallen celestials. Their bellies grew so big that the giant offspring bursted out of them and the mother's died in agony.

[@chriszablocki2460]

"Grace"

[@Noone-rt6pw]

The most terrible thing that makes religious look ignorant are all the do's and do nots, but, they do not know how to prevent the things that predisposes certain people to certain behaviors. Attitudes as well. I know as a fact, as I've seen too many textbook examples. But many religious refuse to accept such where they simply judge and such, bringing more affliction, oppression which contributes to the problem. As I say, the Bible tells us what to do, not how to do or not do things. Many love war and conflict, which the Bible says is bad. At the same time, there is just war. But it's always others sending others out for that. Don't learn the ways of the violent man. Not a brawler, a wine bibber, etc. Then Psalm 144:1, blessed be the Lord that teaches my hands to war. However, we should be peace seeking, where those of Mennonite lineages are wonderful for this. But many love strife and contention, so any encouragements, enabling, justification, plenty will jump on it.

[@andrewGyeeeee]

Austin, where you get that crewneck? I want one

[@victorborbalima]

nice

[@davidmason4244]

He sacrifices himself as the lamb, yet he will return as the lion.

[@jesussavesall1601]

😊🙏

[@Amadeus.Amadeus]

Why can’t people just let giants be giant

[@liamconverse8950]

It doesn't really say that Amalikites were giants like that.

[@bradleyperry1735]

What doesn’t say that?

[@Noone-rt6pw]

Lafayette, La.? That used be my stomping grounds not far from there. Boudin, hot links, Jambalaya, etouffe. But plant meats can be used, 😉. Alligator, turtle and everything else is eaten. The Sportsmen State! Crawfish boils, sucking the juice from the head, use g others to remove fat, add to crawfish bisque, etc.

[@jaybig360]

Did this guy become Catholic or orthodox?

[@nikola9348]

He's an Orthodox priest.

[@lorenzbeaumacc1175]

@12:38

[@Haidouk-kw6ds]

56:00

[@joolz5747]

And more…I am not as intellectual as you guys. I delve into this with my heart, imagination and the Holy Spirit leading me. I have done that for awhile dealing with this topic. And actually demons, angels I believe could be in the form of a human if they want. Maybe in order to impregnate Gods people to fulfill satan’s plans to get rid of God’s people and start his own race to take their place. All the spiritual warfare! 😊

[@shannoncrawford7212]

The men of Sodom and Gomorrah certainly thought it was possible to have sexual relations with an Angel. The passage (Gen. 19) doesn’t specify how or why they came to this understanding, but they certainly thought it was possible and were intent upon it.

[@shannoncrawford7212]

There was a genetic component involved with these people groups living in Canaan. In that this is where the continuation of the human and fallen supernatural beings genetic mixing was occurring post flood. Dr. Michael Heiser (who was recently on the show) is probably the most prominent OT scholar who delves into this. But from what I have seen, doesn’t really delve deeply into this period and aspect of history (and the command to wipe these people out), but I may be mistaken. Gary Wayne does a lot of work in this same area. I don’t believe he has the formal education of Heiser, but has been studying these aspects of the scriptures, as well as prophecy most of his adult life. His most recent book is the Genesis 6 conspiracy. His work does put a heavy emphasis on how the supernatural realm has directly involved itself throughout history up to the present, and how he believes it fits into future prophecy. So there may be a bit more reliance on other historical documents, artifacts, and just studying of how secret societies/occult, etc operate to bring about Satan’s will in our physical world in regards to more modern history. And as with anyone, it can get more speculative when talking about future prophecy. But he does go deeper into the people groups that were in Canaan at this time and their relationship to/with supernatural genetic mixing. And how they fit (or don’t fit) into the Biblical table of nations, and the reasons behind that. God used the flood to wipe out the antediluvian Nephilim (part human - part supernatural being hybrids). But they continued this practice (to a lesser degree) post flood. And the people groups in this area were/contained this genetic make up. And this could be (and IMO is) why God commanded total annihilation. I know at the outset many will have immediate objections when hearing about human/supernatural hybrids, and there is a lot that still has to be thought through and explained, from a Biblical perspective and worldview, before anyone should accept this as truth. The information is out there; Heiser, Gary Wayne, Timothy Alberino, NYSTV (David Carrico and John Pounders are a few I would recommend but I’m sure there are more. And obviously we are not all going to agree 100% with any other person. But the research (Biblical and historical) and books and discussions are available, as well as opposing view points, if people wish to look into the subject further. Each individual that chooses to look more deeply into these subjects has to determine if/what aligns with scripture. And where scripture speaks about a matter but isn’t definitive on specific details, what has the highest probability of being the truth, through the use of the other historical documentation and evidences we do have (but that do not contradict the Bible). And weight those accordingly, to what is being used to determine their truthfulness, or probability of being correct/historically accurate. And you do have to put some stock (although not as inspired Canon, more as historical narrative) into extra-biblical texts to develop a view on how God put a stop to the practice of human interbreeding by the fallen supernatural beings. They were bound and the disembodied spirits of their dead offspring wander the earth as demons (they were not fully human and don’t have a human soul). And almost all ancient cultures had beliefs that their gods were actual supernatural beings, and also had offspring with humans (demigods). A belief that was grounded in the reality in which they (or their ancestors) lived, not just made up fables. But contradictory to the Biblical narrative, as they worshiped these gods, instead of treating them as evil abominations.

[@bradleyperry1735]

Being in the form of man doesn’t mean they had the same capacity. Angels do not have the same bodies that mankind does. Angels do not have children, biologically speaking.

[@bradleyperry1735]

@@shannoncrawford7212They call them men. They thought they were men, not angels.

[@bradleyperry1735]

@@shannoncrawford7212Genetics has nothing to do with it. No one knew what genetics were in those times, and genetics are incredibly unimportant to our spiritual life.

[@Kevin-kc1xg]

Thing I love about Fr. DeJong is he fills the screen with his entire head so all you can focus on is the pimple on the tip of his nose

[@neptunetriton]

I was thinking the same thing…..like plllllleeease, zoom out do we can’t count all your nose hairs 😂

[@Kevin-kc1xg]

@@neptunetriton 😂😂😂

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

If you're so easily distracted, just listen without looking.

[@msmutola682]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@joshualeibrant3443]

Seems like the E.O. are subliminally bringing about facial hair on the young gentleman. Glad to see you hair cut shorter too. Very manly gentle fellow

[@henrieecen2938]

Revelation of God's truths has been progressive. Although the Bible is inspired by God He still worked through the agency of broken humanity. Much of the earlier Hebrew scriptures described God more in man's image. The idea of God being unrelenting love and mercy emerges more during the Old Testament phrophets. This image of God culminates with Jesus as the full revelation of God's nature. Read the whole Bible through the lens of Jesus who in dying on the cross descended into Hades the realm of the dead preached the Gospel and took ALL with Him. Protestantism with its message of Hell is not accurate due to a legalistic mindset thus bias. The original Greek speaks more of restoration through refinement for an age, Thus Catholicism and Orthodox whose understanding on this subject is more in line with the early church fathers. Jesus's parables on goats and sheep gnashing of teeth in Gahenna etc. Merely human rhetoric to pressure people to repent and seek the reality of God's Kingdom present tense! I am no longer of the Protestant fundementalist bent but see much truth and beauty in Orthodoxy. Ex Pastor Brad Jerzak who moved from Protestantism to Orthodoxy has helped me tremendously with his book "A more Christlike God." Likewise Catholic Franciscan Richard Rohr has also been helpful in verbalizing what entered my heart as I devoured scripture alone. It caused me to question much Protestant dogma primarily from Calvin. Shalom to ALL who strive by dying to self and seek to do the Fathers will. LOVE! Calvin by murdering Annabaptists in Geneva certainly fell short of this as ALL of humanity. The same story with the Old Testament with God telling His people to slaughter their enemy. Jesus said love your enemy! Totally the opposite! Thus as said at the beginning there is that which is written from a human perspective and that from the indwelling divine perspective. Inspired the Bible is but certainly not infallible or inerrant as Christian fundementalist claim. God's blessings to all who seek, in order to find God's truths.❤️

[@paxonearth]

What is on Fr. De Young's nose?

[@Pcytripper]

It's a small bump, maybe a skin tag?

[@lauradavis4783]

MONEY CHANGERS! Shameful

[@Xavier_Coogat_the_Mambo_King]

Everything he "wars" against, he created. He's all powerful, he could erase it all from existence with no effort. So he's just playing a game then? Sounds like you take it a bit too serious if its just a game gods playing.

[@aleksakovacevic3350]

I believe it’s more than just a game tbh ofc God can do as he pleases yet why does he not intervene at every instant why does he not end all this we see yet how would he do that while also giving the freedom in choosing what to do conflict is a result in the fallen action yet through fallen action do to decision he also gives us opportunity and peace through the decision of his creation

[@bradleyperry1735]

God uses people. We’re not pawns. We have agency.

[@annelid4728]

Wait, the father believes in the Bollockaust? My interest has ebbed.

[@neptunetriton]

Like most people, I doubt most clergy have ever really examined that narrative with a critical eye. In Fr DeYoung's case, prob too busy becoming a SME in ancient near east religious customs, practices, and languages to go down that rabbit hole.

[@annelid4728]

@@neptunetriton that is a very benevolent explanation. Perhaps you are right. It is hard to imagine that if one digs into XX. century history of Orthodoxy in Russia one does not come to some findings that go against MSM teaching of history, but perhaps this father spent more time with the ancient fathers' writings.

[@MrJMB122]

What is that?

[@annelid4728]

@@MrJMB122 a portmanteau of the English Bollocks! and the Holocaust.

[@heydude7568]

@@annelid4728 one could also say bullshicaust

[@lubabosnjak6892]

Can you stop talking so the priest can talk. Terrible interviewer. Its not very orthodox to be narcisistic

[@TheWhyisthatso]

The events and stories of the Old Testament , whether literal historical events or not is irrelevant . As they are all "shadows" of our true reality, which is SPIRITUAL . The events and stories are meant to teach Spiritual TRUTH, regardless of historical accuracy. This literal and physical world we find ourselves in does not truly "exist". ONLY "Spirit" (MIND / Thought , Consciousness) truly Exist . THINK GNOSTIC !

[@solonicfeatures]

yall niggas havent been relevant since like 250 AD, quit the LARP.

[@notaboutit3565]

@@solonicfeatures Lmaoo

[@bradleyperry1735]

Um. No. Don’t think that.

[@TheWhyisthatso]

@@bradleyperry1735 .....Why , are you afraid of words ? The word "gnostic" is just an allusion to the Greek word "gnosis" that means "knowledge". It's written all over the New Testament scriptures The opposite of it is "ignorance".......meaning you "ignore" knowledge of the truth when you come across it .

[@bradleyperry1735]

@@TheWhyisthatso No. Gnosticism is a heresy. Always has been.

[@NickOeffinger]

Father be like Orthodox George RR Martin