The REAL Reason Why The OKC Thunder BLEW UP Their Dynasty

[@Domo8186]

Gil 100% correct. You never see MVP Harden or MVP Russ if all the 3 stay together. KD was always going to be the #1 option there. But they would've been a Spurs level dynasty if the owner wasn't cheap.

[@AVAXII]

But they aren't saying they should have spent their careers together. 1 chip and they go seperate directions.

[@kevinlambert5854]

Not all the way correct maybe for harden but russ finished 4th in mvp voting when kd finished 5th in 2015-2016 and averaged 23-10-8 he just needed 2 more rebounds for the triple double kd wasn’t gonna stop him from doing that when he decided to do it.

[@nupc717]

espeacially when russ's whole run was fueled by feeling betrayed by KD

[@jordanchaston8842]

Bro all 3 would have been fine together if they could have figured it out and I firmly believe all of them would have MVP season all of them can average 30 that's only 90 pints a game y'all it's not that difficult.

[@jordanchaston8842]

Teams average almost 120 these days that's still 30 bench points a night..

[@js9849]

They paid Ibaka before they paid Harden they felt like they already had elite perimeter talent outside of Harden

[@brendanbloom3366]

They didn’t anticipate to pay a luxury tax. Salary cap spiked later anyway. They were cheap.

[@shiestlifesam]

@@brendanbloom3366that’s the answer to all this small market teams are notoriously cheap pelicans, sac up until recently, they don’t like paying to keep guys but they complain that all the big market teams poach their players

[@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m]

If you want to win a championship, you have to pay your players.

[@kerryjohnson8]

They pay Perkins 9 million per year. 😂

[@uncleb7821]

That part

[@36crow]

Mccants and B don't understand. There is no 3 MVPs if KD is the head of snake.

[@moisesmontecillo7570]

Yeah hind site is 20/20 but they would have 3 caliber MVPs

[@GRAND60N2]

yeah I don’t get how they didn’t understand what he was saying🤣

[@christopherjackson7670]

McCants said stupid shit. Religiously! It’s insane

[@MalachiFunches]

Kd still looking loss years later he done played with every superstar except Lebron

[@koreywaller2931]

Them ninjas be talking slow for playing in the nba

[@aaam8999]

Gil is correct.

[@DJizz]

They arguing with just cause. He gave 3 good examples of 3rd options

[@Jackiechan744]

Facts it’s not rocket science idk y bj and Rashad are even arguing it

[@logicalmalethink4925]

It’s a debate not a fact

[@barryconner7864]

Gil is DEFINITELY RIGHT

[@glcsander]

People forget that golden state low balled Steph for year's due to his achilies, if Steph was healthy from the beginning GSW would have done the same thing OKC did. Hindsight is 20/20 wich is why they are not playing with the current roster they even have the luxury of losing Tre mann and Josh Giddey.

[@MahhneyyDID]

Gil is right this whole conversation 🫡

[@Monast11]

He’s just louder than everyone else. When he wants to be seen as right in an opinionated segment he does that. I think all sides had valid points just different perspectives

[@anthonymiller8107]

No he not cause Gil always say superstars get paid under the table. So with Gil logic harden would of made money under the table like he did

[@yuvrajbadapanda5265]

@@anthonymiller8107for star players and it’s not direct money they’ll bring you into investments tell you about loopholes give you game only billionaires know

[@tafarihall4027]

No he’s not

[@davionguthrie5567]

He right about the 3rd option point. One of them had to take a back seat. Like he said if James stayed that no mvp, no shoe, etc...look at Lou Will

[@JB-kq1fy]

For somebody who claims to be screwed by organizations Mccants sure advocates for players to put their future and potential earnings fully into the organizations hands i don’t understand

[@rainbowthegod]

He wears a crown and carries a baseball bat with spikes on it .... his ignorance makes perfect sense 😂😂😂

[@inversiondefense]

@@rainbowthegod Exactly. McCant speaks mainly from opinion because he wasn't that guy.

[@kendallharris3445]

Great point

[@YouTubeTroll86]

Maybe he’s teaching through his mistakes

[@otisjenkinsjr.3556]

They would've been able to max harden out with the bird rights after year 7. You don't know what YOU'RE talking about.

[@justified004]

It's like BJ and Rashad forget what guys like Wade, Bosh, and Love before taking a backseat role. Wade was a FMVP and Love was even a 25 and 12 guy.

[@prolific1518]

Wade was already falling apart not going anywhere in the playoffs. Love was missing the playoffs or getting bounced in the first round. Seems your memory is the one struggling.

[@justified004]

@prolific1518 just like BJ and Rashad you're missing the point. Someone has to sacrifice. KD was the clear cut #1. Sure, Russ and James would get better but they would not reach their MVP levels behind KD. No way James becomes the ball dominant guard who averagd 36 or Russ the triple double machine if they are splitting touches not just with KD but each other. James has even admitted this. Gil's point is they could win chips but they wouldn't have become the greats they became. Also, Wade didn't start declining until half through LeBron's time there when he got hurt, which is why they struggled vs the Spurs the last 2 years. He was still 20+ a night to start the Big 3. Love was still young in Minnesota and had no one else on that team. Yeah he never made the playoffs but he was 25yo his last season there and averaged 26 and 12 with Ricky Rubio as his #2. So I remember better than you it seems.

[@Andemur]

@@prolific1518You’re actually agreeing with him. You listed different reasons, but it boils down to the same thing…..they were in position to sacrifice.

[@prolific1518]

@Andemur nope the discussion was about winning. Wade wasn't winning anymore (he was second option by year 3 of the big 3). Bosh never won. Love never won. Stat padding doesn't equal wins.

[@phatch5444]

A 25 and 10 guy? Lmao okay & what was he doing in the playoffs. Empty stats.

[@losttyrant7482]

The real issue is that OKC saw how good Harden was and he was 6MOTY, Harden knew he was ready for a bigger role and OKC said you aren't worth that extra 4 mil to us. Harden went on to become a Super max player and MVP.... OKC squandered that teams chances and chemistry by being cheap

[@ladywade111]

Bingo!

[@mrblackman1992_]

@@ladywade111remember it like yesterday that’s facts okc chose ibaka over harden cause of money and they knew Harden was too good okc was not paying that money ibaka was cheap.

[@roberttrevino8873]

Yup

[@Chuck-mr6iq]

​@@mrblackman1992_didn't they pay Perk too??

[@christopherjackson7670]

@@losttyrant7482 it had nothing to do with the role. We know he woulda stayed if they paid him. But I mean if I get paid more and I get to run solo of course I everyone would sign up for that. Okc blew this big time.

[@jaydell4039]

Basically OkC picked serge Ibaka over harden.

[@FR0Z0NEkeys]

*Kendrick Perkins over Harden

[@Cowboys_by_20]

Serge was nice though

[@kerryjohnson8]

Serge was an average player. They gave Perkins 9 million per year extension.

[@BillLup-eb7lt]

Best choice ever to be honest

[@brianbaylark3889]

I remember this like it was yesterday. The Thunder choose to pay Serge Ibaka instead of Harden.

[@GXprogamer]

they shoulda paid both, and not given a fuck to big perkins over there lol, Serge and Harden were CORE to the team

[@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m]

People don’t understand how hard it is to draft that much talent in a small market.

[@daibu05]

Let's think about this at that time James was getting you 16 coming off your bench (I think they was doing that on purpose so they could low ball James) serge ibaka a starter, your best defender, the best post defender (remember you going against blame, Tim, Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph, Dirk, KG Bosh etc.) And should have been 2 time defensive player if the year giving you 12 and leading the league in blocks. Bro give me the defender first make sure he's locked in

[@GXprogamer]

@@daibu05 James was they key to winning against Spurs in last games of 2012 WCF

[@daibu05]

@GXprogamer you attention getting past Dallas in the 2nd round without Serge

[@mariowilliams9196]

McCants and Jennings are seriously stupid. KD would’ve been the only MVP if they would’ve stayed together.

[@369pendulum]

You didn’t watch the 2012 finals.

[@mariowilliams9196]

@ I saw Harden’s potential in that series, but neither him or Russ would’ve developed into MVP level players, or viewed by the media as such, with KD as the #1 option.

[@369pendulum]

@@mariowilliams9196 I thought you were talking about Finals MVP, if you’re talking regular season then yes i completely agree assuming they were all healthy I don’t see how those two could’ve won MVP next to KD.

[@mariowilliams9196]

@ do you think a healthy KD would’ve played the second fiddle that was needed for the statistical seasons that resulted in Russ’ and Harden’s MVP seasons? By volume and usage alone, KD, Russ and Harden being on the same team all but elongated the types of seasons that got Russ and Harden MVP’s.

[@higherheights3105]

Nobody believed in Harden like the Rockets Organization. Anyone who's saying otherwise is disingenuous.

[@MindfulAttraction2.0]

The issue is that with Russell Westbrook, if James would have ascended to the James that we know Russell Westbrook's ego was just too much. The dude thought he was better than Kevin. That team was not going to work. Russ's ego was just too much

[@brendanbloom3366]

They made the finals as one of the youngest teams and lost to a superteam heat team that had the refs in their pockets. Harden choked in that series. They keep harden they would win at least 1 championship.

[@Cowboys_by_20]

Russ was better than all them at that point

[@MindfulAttraction2.0]

You see this is exactly what would happen lol. Russell was focus on your comment and start to be selfish​@@Cowboys_by_20

[@KFP617]

@@Cowboys_by_20😂😂😂 no he wasnt

[@KFP617]

As a former okc fan you are right . Russ cost us a championship in 2016 his poor decision making was at an all time high

[@MozartRice]

Gil is right on this one... We saw them all play together... Ginobli was Hardens ceiling if he stays in OKC

[@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m]

And Ginobli stayed and sacrificed and helped the Spurs win 4 nba championships.

[@71jlanier]

​@@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m Spurs payed Ginobli though

[@TashaOneal-z3p]

​@@LeetraviusMcKay-q6mwho cares about a championship

[@J.DNER0]

rolling with Gil’s take.

[@ogbreeze3223]

This is when I realize Mccants n BJ really stupid lmao

[@BIGJon23]

What took you so long on Mccants

[@bigjuni2102]

You’d think “these guys are in the NBA , they know what they’re talking about “ right

[@JohnathanWhitfield-ow6xq]

I think they be trolling they can’t be serious

[@user-nl9me3er7w]

@JohnathanWhitfield-ow6xq mcants is kind of a troll BJ...no comment

[@jonpoon3896]

@@bigjuni2102 but only Gil really knows what it's like to be a franchise guy. They don't know what that's like.

[@king_vares]

Basically this is the ring vs the money convo

[@brendanbloom3366]

Basically it was okc being cheap.

[@michaelshannon3486]

Naw not really

[@RiccoVanWilder]

Slightly different, its a who do you blame convo. Does the player take less money to stay on a winner or does the organization dig a little deeper in their pocket?

[@renigate]

Spotted the Harden hater

[@renigate]

Harden was able to get a max from other teams but decided to try to stay with okc for 4mil extra. Okc simply believed that he was not worth that 4mil so why not take the max.

[@JaySee5]

Gil forgot that *THE DREAM* was the 1984 #1 pick and took them to the FINALS when MJ was getting kicked out of the 1st round. Houston did *NOT* regret passing on MJ.

[@raregoodds3143]

your not educated. Mj had a really bad team. Then houston never saw the finals again for almost a decade

[@cccbbb4443]

​@raregoodds3143 it wasn't because of dream. No one in Houston is regretting that pick

[@bwen18]

Gil is giving too much credit to the Warriors organization for keeping the team together. The Warriors dynasty was mostly a happy accident. Because Steph's ankle injuries early in his career prevented him from becoming 30 earlier, he signed a 4yr/$44M contract which was fair for both sides at the time. Because of how underpaid Steph was, the Warriors had a lot more room to maneuver the cap. During that time, Steph was debatably the most underpaid superstar of all time.

[@dylanbrown5474]

I want to see someone do an OKC rebuild from that year, but trade Westbrook instead of Harden and see how well they do

[@ryanlambert1265]

I 100% agree with you! The pass Westbrook is getting in this convo is mind boggling

[@logicalmalethink4925]

Westbrook was the problem

[@smoothsavage2870]

They would've been a vastly better team if Russ leaves instead of Harden.

[@Stonecoldalston]

If they had Harden & KD instead I think they win one

[@bmanszn]

championship galore they not blowing a 3 point lead against the warriors

[@b.a.baracus]

OKC invested the money in the frontcourt Perkins got overpaid while they tried Harden with that pedestrian deal

[@kerryjohnson8]

Thank you. Nobody ever brings Perkins extensions up. He was a below average center.

[@Gamessports101]

Simple, no one knew James would be what he was in Houston

[@GriMInc.]

He won 6MOY tht year, no matter what they thought he was gonna be. He proved he wasnt a liability and tht he could help the team get to a finals. No reason to let him go

[@mr.joshua6818]

The Thunder messed up their whole franchise when they didn't re-sign Harden.

[@willclinton468]

Harden even said himself if he didn't go to Houston he might not have became the player he was

[@Reece_215]

They seen him everyday they knew what he was that picked serged over harden

[@FirstPersonHood]

Harden was indeed a surprise superstar. That offense in Houston was amazing!​@@GriMInc.

[@ryanlambert1265]

Simple...Rus fans blew his head up so much that he thought he was a KD caliber player

[@miguelkaiser69]

🧢 Nobody saw Harden becoming what he was in Houston. Houston ain’t even no he was gonna be that good. That would’ve still been Durants team and Westbrook and Harden would’ve had to take a backseat still. Russ doesn’t become triple double Russ until he was by himself, and Harden never becomes the Harden we seen until after leaving.

[@therealtonyason]

as an okc fan who was a fan before we went to the finals and been a fan to this day for 1 we didn’t know harden had mvp all time scorer potential. for 2 we picked ibaka over him the league was still a big man league. we made the wrong decision choosing ibaka over harden but it’s easy to say now. i think if it was in this era we pay harden and let ibaka walk 100%

[@therealtonyason]

also sam presti didn’t see it then but he damn sure is a goat GM. drafting all those guys and then going in a rebuild to make another young big 3 with draft compensation to make ANOTHER big 3 or get a superstar to join our current big 3 is unheard of

[@brendanbloom3366]

Easy could’ve paid both they were cheap. It was obvious at the time it was a horrible trade.

[@6ixOh9ineRacks]

Gil’s absolutely right McCants and B thinking in hindsight which would have never happened if all 3 stayed together

[@cheatcodejakey689]

I love these type of videos from yall. The new version of the league is super cup cake. To hear about the good ole days is really cool.

[@Stonecoldalston]

5:56 I don’t see them leaving after one ring unless they won one and didn’t get back like 2-3 years in a row

[@HughJorgan09]

It's crazy, listening to all this revisionist history, as it pertains to the OKC Thunder, during the time they had Russ, KD & the Beard. The bottom line, as it has been amply demonstrated NUMEROUS times, is that Russ WAS/IS way too ball dominant for how inefficient he is with the ball, and, his lack of good judgement, while dominating the ball, was also having a stifling effect at times when KD should have been being allowed to take over. I don't comprehend the fantasizing that Russ could have been the starting 1 or 2 on anybody's championship team. I don't know how the team would have begun to better utilize James Harden, because, if you recall, they had him coming off the bench. He was sill nice, but, he wasn't the Houston Rockets James Harden nice...because, obviously, he would have had to defer to the ego of the starter, Russ, who, especially in critical game moments, felt as though he, himself, ought to be dominating the ball, instead of respecting that, damn dude, you've got mf'ing KD AND the Beard who DON'T have the ball, while you're wasting the shot clock away. KD HAD TO get away from Russ, and, for James to develop into the player that he became known to be, he, too, needed out from under Russ' dominance.

[@Ginga]

Great post. Gil did the best he could arguing with two morons. It you’re not going to get a lot of nuanced discussion on this show.

[@WarrenFranceSportsNetwork]

See this is the issue I have with your revisionist history. Even after they traded harden they were up 3-1 against a 73 win team. Russell was good enough to get them to finals and to get them up 3-1 but not to win. Nah Kevin Durant was the reason they lost and you revising his history is the problem. Westbrook has become the scapegoat when if you look at that wcf THEY LOST BC OF KD. Notice kd tweeted from his burner, “kd and Russ was never gonna win with those guys” what he should’ve said is those guys were never gonna win with me. OKC rolled the dice keeping him and not trading him and made huge run, I truly believe he self sabatoged that 3-1 lead bc if they win that they prob beat the Cavs and he has no option but to stay in okc. He is one of the greatest scorers ever and most gifted players ever but a horrible leader and should not be your number one option. They lost the wcf bc of him and then he joined the team that they lost to. Kd was the problem not Russ. Thats why he called him a cupcake. No former teammate doing that.

[@HughJorgan09]

@@WarrenFranceSportsNetwork All that might sound good, or look somewhat intellectually-based, but, as in most things, reality will reflect that while KD DID go on & win championships, Russ has not, and will not, be the starting 1 or 2 guard on ANY championship team ever. He's more of a "I'm gonna get mine" type of guy, instead of a "WE need to get this" type of guy.

[@seanzadsalamat5167]

James harden was such a player in his first 4 years. At okc. A slasher. A shooter. The pg in the 4th quarter. Crazy good and different player than we ever saw at Houston

[@Margot_est_douce.]

I can binge your vids all day!

[@noyce.]

Best example is, pick a career. Would you guys want to be: A) Multiple Super-max and a career/MVP like James Harden or Russell Westbrook [be in top 5 all-time for your position] B) A fringe "all-star" like Jamal Murray [Years later people could just remember you like a Harrison Barnes type] Forreal though, I myself can't decide. ----- jesus christ shad really be talking off emotions alone. harden was averaging 16.8ppg legitimately a "black" ginobilli as called out by Gil. the F*CKING reason the OKC don't think he's worth the 4mil is because Harden averaged 12.4ppg IN THE FINALS on 37.5% shooting it's really not hard to see I hate when emotional ninjas talk outta their ahh off 20/20 hindsight. KD Russ was averaging 30 28 in the finals, of course they pay the big man instead. They saw first hand when 11' Mavs doesn't resign Tyson Chandler.

[@dameG05]

3:52 was bro vaping?

[@facts10455]

Ex-ballers arguing that someone should put a championship or a dynasty b4 themselves is nasty work, I'm glad OKC broke up cause we got to see potential turn into greatness

[@lani7475]

Rashad and Brandon just be wanting to argue with Gil … and they saying the SAME POINT Gil’s saying , 🤣

[@LILCHAIN24]

James clearly was the best playmaker back then and I think he leaves regardless and becomes what he became but he does limit Russ growth if he stays

[@mayowasanya8176]

Can’t believe this conversation still goes on 13 years later. James harden did not want to be in OKC, it wasn’t about money why would he want to play 3rd fiddle to durant and Westbrook. OKC knew he was not gonna sign a contract and traded him, personally they should have kept him and just let him leave as a free agent.

[@rui7922]

You haven't watch the recent James Harden interview. He said if OKC paid him the 4 million he asking he would've stayed and they coulda win 2 or more championships. Watchumean he aint wanna be on OKC he made his way out because OKC chose to pay ibaka and perkins over him.

[@neji9012]

@@rui7922agreed! If you watch harden old interview , with tears in his eyes he never wanted to leave okc. It was situation hard for him to talk about . People try to change history , go watch interview talking about the trade. He never wanted it

[@mayowasanya8176]

@@rui7922 what do you expect him to say, if he says he wanted his own team instead of possibly staying with the thunder and winning champions people would say thats selfish. He got offered 55.5 mil over four years and wouldnt sign it because it was 4 mil less than the max, thats ridiculous. He makes 20 mil a year in endorsements alone. OKC traded him because they knew if they kept in till his contract ended, he wouldve walked.

[@ProFinancialTS]

James wanted to go. He didn't like Serge, and Russ got paid, and he was last to get paid. He was tired of the 6 man! Naw..you wrong Gil. #ThunderFanHere

[@Novaayton]

What’s funnier, Gil saying “triple thouble” @4:35 or Chris brown saying “attenten” on “yo” 🤣

[@mikielsahagun6054]

Can we talk about the guys in my Thunder team right now please, this is so disrespectful to my okcright now

[@Fiction2K24]

13:10 No Rashad, Cuban is a business genius, he didnt guess, he knew Luka's value from the start 😂

[@GRAND60N2]

he be hating man🤣 he say anything to be right… cuban didn’t guess

[@SkolWill1432]

Gil is 1000% right! Presti fucked this up, they were too busy worrying about taking care of role players like Ibaka instead of focusing on the 3 important players Durant, Westbrook, & Harden. They should've gave that 4mil up, and we would have about 1 maybe 2 championships in OKC... SMH

[@kerryjohnson8]

Yeah, they also gave Perkins 27 million dollars.

[@SkolWill1432]

@kerryjohnson8 man I'm getting pissed off thinking about it 😂

[@iguesss]

The dynasty had to break up.. they just got rid of the WRONG guard

[@jamesjohnson7618]

Great convo

[@shawnstanley9620]

James harden was 6th man ,getting the max from the rockets ,but kd and russ didn't speak up for james ,and thunder didn't wont to cash out 4 million ,this what if of late 2014 ,okc could have been dynasty ,challenging the warriors like the rockets was

[@369pendulum]

They didn’t speak up for him? That’s not how the NBA worked 12yrs ago.

[@phillipclancy1999]

McCants was in the slow class arguing that he was the smartest in the class

[@llcoolbeard2922]

NO ONE KNOWS WHAT ANYONE IS GOING TO BE! They all hope they’re going to be whatever they imagined it.

[@relltilly]

I thought they traded James to Houston for Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, two first round picks (which became Steven Adams and Mitch McGary)?

[@kerryjohnson8]

They did, one of the worst trade in NBA history. They could have waited because he would have been an RFA.

[@relltilly]

@ okay thank you because they making it sound like James just sign with Houston.

[@sylviaadkins6208]

If they kept harden over russ they would've been the best team of the decade and him and kd would've took bron and steph shine

[@donjavon0021]

As a russ fan i would have loved to see prime russ in a dantoni system if russ went to Houston early

[@pele914]

The issue was figuring how to fit Westbrook's style with Harden's as starters along with paying Ibaka first. Both Harden and Westbrook needed to create off the dribble. With GS, the beauty there was that Curry, Klay, and Barnes we're all able to catch n shoot mixed with Draymond being more facilitator than scorer. Huge difference in personnel which affected why they let Harden go...still was a mistake to me though.

[@TheKennyGM]

at that time 4M was a lot of money for Harden LOL

[@Savsgge]

That’s a lot for anyone

[@TheKennyGM]

@@Savsgge is really that difficult to understand what I'm saying? Just need to think a little bit.... ffs

[@oleboy730]

Yea man that’s one thing I still haven’t got over straight up 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@jmar5127]

Aint no way any KD led tesm was beating Prime Bron. Stop it. Hence why he joined Steph

[@younglove3362]

Lol you sound like you were born in 2005.

[@704jizzle2]

James COULD HAVE SAID NO AND STAYED REGARDLESS OF THE 4 MILLION DOLLARS GIL WHAT DONT U UNDERSTAND

[@ProFinancialTS]

Exactly

[@ljayydagoat7113]

Who tf turning down 4million especially when he wasn’t making big money like that. Plus the thunder fuxked up giving perkins that money. Bottom line thunder invested in front court instead of back court. Should’ve never gave perk an extension

[@BiggSnupac]

OKC messed up paying Ibaka before Harden.

[@Hopper830]

No they weren’t because Westbrook was never as efficient as Steph Curry.

[@lilsteve1804]

durant

[@eyemisstheoldme4807]

Didn't need him to be

[@gwest9076]

@@eyemisstheoldme4807 To be a dynasty? Yes you did.

[@prolific1518]

Steph isn't a pg. He's a screen runner.

[@eyemisstheoldme4807]

@gwest9076 okc window to win a chip was before Steph turned into the Steph...so at that time, no they didn't need Russ to be him. They had plenty of shooting on okc at that time. What they needed was more time to grow and get better as a team. They did get to a NBA finals with that team in okc

[@shiestydon]

I was with the Thunder and close follower of James Harden (even repped the Rockets when they traded for him). The problem was most certainly them prioritizing Westbrook AND KD. They should have chosen one of them and then traded the other (obviously keeping Harden as a second option). I’ve always said this.

[@brendanbloom3366]

Obviously they would prioritize kd he was by far their best player. They should not have been cheap and kept all 3 and then Kd and Russ wouldn’t have left either.

[@shiestydon]

@@brendanbloom3366 what im saying is there was clear tension in leadership between namely KD and Westbrook. Harden just wanted to actually start. They should of chosen between either the two, obviously they should have went all in on KD

[@brendanbloom3366]

@@shiestydon there was no tension in leadership at that point. Both were leaders. Media just tried to stir the pot and made up stuff about that. They just made the finals as one of the youngest finals teams ever. They were progressing every season. They threw it down the toilet getting rid of harden and they never got back to the finals. Injuries played a factor but that’s another area harden helps. Russ goes down in 2013 if harden is still there they still have a chance.

[@302big5]

@@brendanbloom3366that last line is so true.

[@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m]

The Oklahoma City Thunder front office messed that up.

[@EndlessAlchemy]

There's no chance OKC would have been a dynasty. History has demonstrated that Westbrook and Harden aren't winning players. They've both played with a ton of great players and ALWAYS choke in the playoffs.

[@NewOrleansOwn]

I agree with Gil on this

[@donilwilliams4472]

First of all GS Dynasty was built because Stef didn't get the deal he deserved because of injury. There was a time Stef was fourth or fifth highest paid on those championship teams. So this situation is different. I agree with Gil cause the organization would have benefited alot more than the 4 mil they would of spent on Harden

[@ARayadkins57]

Its not the Gms fault he drafted the most talented (me,me,me) 3 some in recent history. These guys put winning last.

[@SonnyK248]

One of the biggest mistakes OKC made was not simply keeping Harden for the final year of his contract. He was on his rookie deal which meant that he'd have become a restricted free agent the following year and teams that wanted him would still have to pony up assets to get him. In fact, Harden staying for another year could have resulted in a title for OKC the very next season. You look at the 2013 season and OKC are about the same. KD is runner up for MVP. Russ is all NBA second team just like the year before. Ibaka is first team all defense and led the league in blocks just like the year before. You insert a Harden who has taken a fraction of the leap he took in Houston that year and they could have won it all. So if they just kept him for the final year of his deal two things could have happened. 1. They basically force themselves to re sign him because he becomes undeniable or 2. They flip him but they get more for him because he's probably an allstar now.

[@chazp4551]

Gil is actually right in this conversation except for one minor point… Houston has never expressed any regrets in drafting Olajuwon over Jordan…ever. People talk about Portland taking Bowie but nobody says a thing about Houston. They eventually got two chips and he’s a HoFer.

[@davidsamuel6473]

Gil is always speaking from a scorer's perspective, but NEVER from the mindset of a player wanting to strike for a championship. But that's what you do when you're a person that is and was all about themselves.

[@chillbrah1010]

That okc team still to this day could make the playoffs in 2025. Thats how good they were.

[@Worldaffairslover]

Idk if okc has the same front office today as in 2009, but if they do, they’re excellent.

[@Blankman1011]

Sam presti

[@JoC_N-Gimme50]

mark jackson got them eyes for find stars and building really competitive team.

[@Xenferno]

They never would have won because Russ didn't know how to take a back seat

[@kerryjohnson8]

Exactly, they should trade him for CP3 when he was in NO.

[@MindfulAttraction2.0]

Black gino is not an insult. What is gil talking about. The dude was legit a Superstar. I don't care what anybody tells me and he at least knows how to play defense and play without the ball

[@sfrvnko7818]

Guessed on dirk. Guessed on Luka interesting

[@23codez]

GIL is 100% correct

[@calvin.l]

Gil's right...we can't assume Harden would ever ascend to the heights he did or anywhere near that if he never left OKC. Evan Turner said it best somewhat recently, "I sacrificed so much it diminished my career." This is the thing that gets glossed over when we talk about people taking back seats...you hinder their growth and you'll never get that full fledged beast if you're asking someone who could potentially be a first option to be a third option. What if all Harden became is what we know him for now, being a 20/10 guy? Instead of that 30, 35+ ppg monster? He would never be seen as one of the greatest SGs ever, he'd be seen as a pretty elite PG, maybe a better Nash? Would he have won an MVP? First all-team honours? etc etc

[@j.elliott1053]

I agree with Gil!

[@bigrealvids]

Gils right on this

[@laquanperez2425]

I'm with Gil, for sure. With Houston being “his” team, we could see James ball out. With OKC, the assumption was he could get there, but he didn't have the minutes to prove it.

[@Novaayton]

This my favorite lineup of the cast. Plus nick

[@JCJC24]

Thunder still had a 3-1 lead on Warriors in 2016, they still had the team to win the chip…

[@shawncain882]

I'm a Rockets fan from Houston, who likes Harden. But the truth is Harden has consistently played poorly and disappeares in the playoffs his entire career, and I don't believe OKC ever wins a championship with him given that fact, Westbrook's flaws as a player and KD not being a vocal leader and never demonstrating he could lead his own team to a championship, the competitiveness in the West and Miami's Big 3 stayed together for two more seasons after beating OKC, along with other good teams in the East. It's completely overly simplistic to say OKC messed up, especially when you consider they had the 73-win GS team down 3-1 in the WCF without Harden being on the team, KD and Westbrook blew that lead together.

[@TipToe-c3g]

Honestly James the reason Durant went to the warriors….. by James going to Houston it made the league more balanced because rockets instantly became playoff contenders…. And when u look around the league at that time ….. any team Durant went to when being a free agent ……they would’ve been favorites to win teams were to balanced with playoff contenders

[@JAXTWIN]

Bro, I love the NBA for these hypotheticals.

[@letsssgooo4618]

These guys have ten different arguments between three dudes. So weird. Luckily whoever is running OKC is a drafting genius. They hit on those three and now they’ve hit on all the young guys they have now and a great trade with the clippers giving them a young star in SGA. Insane.

[@dibz5326]

Josiah got caulght slippin w the pen😂😂

[@johnzuqo]

Noo, ibaka ended up getting payed that’s what happened

[@ProFinancialTS]

Exactly. Thats what happened. James was mad. He left. Period

[@Marcus-kc9wc]

Its crazy how Shaad and Gil switched arguments about them being able to pay the 4 million after winning a chip.

[@nasirghadaffi5811]

Magic, Kareem and Worthy all won finals MVP so it's definitely possible. This podcast need a true student of the game who knows the history of the NBA!!

[@danielkyles470]

All them became NBA MVP'S I want see them all win a ring not just Kevin

[@KDurantula35Cp3]

Gil: organization lost out on a dynasty because of 4 million Rashad: Harden missed out on a dynasty because of 4 million. Both are true/right

[@Blackbolt-411]

Harden wanted the Bag and his own team . End of discussion. You mean to tell me Harden would have stayed at OKC for 8 instead of the bag on Houston !? Stop it

[@seanh8095]

This is one of those rare instances where both sides of the argument are valid.

[@seauxphiesanders7289]

Sad thing is that they could've kept all 4 of Serge Ibaka, Harden, KD, and Westbrook in 2 different ways: 1 .) cause they could've amnesty Kendrick Perkins at that time easy. 2 .) They could have paid the 4 million, and waited and see until the end of the year what James Harden could have improved because James Harden was still on the Last year of his rookie contract when they were negotiating the extension. By the end of the 4th year of James Harden's rookie contract, the NBA TV deals went up and the salary cap or luxury tax would have been more higher.

[@co6672]

with Rashad's mentality, he wouldve been happy calling someone master, cuz he's "loyal"

[@coleeason6007]

They win ZERO CHIPS harden choked then and would continue to choke as he has done russ eill turn it over like he did annd still doesand KD would not be vocal enough to put russ in check they win NOTHING

[@sonnyqsoul]

It was always gonna happen that either Russ or James would be traded or would simply walk. Money aside, there was just not enough basketball to go around, and three big egos, and that weren't gonna part ways with K.D. If they had the same mentalities then as they do today, it could have worked. Golden State worked because all three players did different things and had different roles on the team and didn't need the ball to be successful. Russ and Harden did and still do...

[@123FUG33]

Come on McCants! Not paying Klay at this point in his career is not the same of not paying Harden when he was hitting his prime.

[@jonathanblaze1648]

McCants is reeaaaally stretching on this one.

[@Swaggerra09]

F.S I dont think BJ ever finish a complete sentence lol lol

[@StuntmanBeatz313]

KD lead both teams in scoring while Westbrook played “the worst finals by a point guard” & Harden shot horribly from the field.. have they ever shaken those demons..

[@T.H.U.G]

Gil the only 1 that makes any sense up there.

[@iamstan_rimp]

OKC was right there. The $4milly is crazy! Yet Presti has been decent with building but fumbling KD and James Harden is wild lol!