Gimme Ten! Tribal Ambient & Fourth World

[@michaelvalentini4869]

Fred, thanks so much for this Gimme Ten! Great combination of Touchstones of the genre and the lesser known examples. Jon Hassell performed on the debut recording of ''In C'' by Terry Riley. Riley's ''In C'' contains many elements of the Fourth World soundscape. The trance quality bridges the ancient and modern styles. Segments of Ennio Morricone soundtracks feature tribal ambient sounds as well as Fourth World freakouts. Miles Davis' ''On The Corner'', to me, is the Birthplace of Tribal Ambient and Fourth World's offspring. Peter Gabriel's ''Real World'' label is a fantastic source for music in this genre. Oh yeah, as you know, Don Cherry always had one foot in the land of the Fourth World.

[@bigstar1000]

I agree with your thoughts about 'In C'. Very much a proto-fourth world LP. I must revisit soon. Also agreed on Ennio Morricone, very earthy soundscapes. Thanks for the insights as per usual!

[@pereplex6933]

Its perfect Fred thanks you ,great choice

[@bigstar1000]

@@pereplex6933 sans problème!

[@seekingathread]

Obviously love this topic and some for me to fill in. I know you mentioned the Sam Gendel / Sam Wilkes records as 4th World influenced. I certainly agree. Have you heard the new one in that series "The Doober"? I still need to check it out myself.

[@bigstar1000]

@@seekingathread Gendel and Wilkes are definitely influenced by that sound. Haven’t heard the new one either

[@pascaldowd8755]

First time listener... You hit the spot in what I like musically...Really like the range of records you talked about... You starting off with Jon Hassell meant I was in it t'ill the end... O Yuki, Muslimgauze... you really hit your spot and I do agree to bring in Peter Gabriel's Passion in the mix! Gondwanaland Project was a great discovery for me. I'll leave you with what you made me want to listen too after all of this: Colin Stetson - All This I Do For Glory

[@bigstar1000]

I'm glad the choices were in the right ball park as these are essential artists and records, to me anyway. Thanks for the recommandation. I love Colin Stetson and have a few of his albums but I don't believe I heard this one.

[@johncoltrane68]

This is a the sonic jungle i love to get lost in. My intro to hassell washis work on remain in light as a teen. I agree definitely transportive. Much in the same way i love pure ethnographic music. I just got a copy of that brook last year..still overlooked perhaps. I have passion sources on vinyl..which is fantastic. Gabriel's womad project was ahead of it's time imo and still one of the most important projects to bring much of this kinda music to a wider audience. Have not played that roach in long time..maybe i need to revisit it soon. Eros in Arabia is a long time favorites here have an og.. Just a killer lp.. Lol you spurred me to grab that baldan i had in my discogs cart forever..😂.. Think i play it this week. No finis here unfortunately luis was in the great world fusion band babia..babia themself's broach a fourth world approach as well. Need that terra still..great stuff..you sent me the live one..i love side 2 on that one. I really love aboriginal music which is naturally haunting and powerful..excellent return to the gimme ten series brother. Much love chris

[@bigstar1000]

Thanks Brother Chris, I know this music is right up your alley. The Bebo Baldan is a killer record and i know it will be well appreciated in your collection. The Gondwanaland is a super common record for us here, I now remember sending the live version to you. Olden days of the VC!

[@uniquesoundsofamerica]

Some nice recomms here, thanks. Have you heard the D.K / S.K. album on Melody As Truth from 2017?

[@bigstar1000]

Not yet but thanks for the recommendation

[@christophe-posts]

This was the Gimme Ten I'd been waiting for! Wonderful survey of this beautiful genre. Some of my all time favourite LPs. As you say I feel it's a sound palette that's becoming even more relevant as a point of reference for young artists 40 years on than ever. As the internet flattened the world allowing artists to cherry pick from anywhere and any time it's enabled anyone to open up their ears and finally catch up with the roadmap Hassell laid out so long ago. Criminally I didn't know Michael Brook's record, thanks for rectifying that for me! Thanks for adding the new Aussie artists, serious quality. Stroud & Halliwell really are great. In the same spirit last night Stunty played Geerken & Ranta's 'The Heliopolar Egg' which blew me away, had to get the more affordable CD, but would sit well in this collection along with some of the great Italian artists like Roberto Musci et al... Such a lovely video, take care my friend ✌️

[@bigstar1000]

Thanks Christophe. VERY much appreciate your comment. The Michael Brook LP is superb, as are the Stroud and Halliwell ones. They are just perfectly representing the tradition established by those early artists. Roberto Musci could have been included too. Amazing artist through and through. Thanks also for stopping by on the stream last night (the French stream).

[@the-vinyl-dreamscape5084]

Hey gentlemen. Taking a break from packing records and books for my big move. Lol. Christophe, the Helipolar Egg was truly outstanding. Between Fred and Stunty you and I are busy researching (and purchasing) music. I mean that in the best way. Cheers guys! Shawn.

[@bigstar1000]

@@the-vinyl-dreamscape5084 hey Shawn, Hope your move goes smoothly. Always much to dig indeed!

[@christophe-posts]

@@bigstar1000 Le stream était superbe! mais avec mon petit français, j'ai besoin d'aide pour les sous-titres! I'm not sure why but it's very different to other streams, you got deeper into the psychology of collecting music, the whole topic around eclecticism I find super interesting. And the barrier to eclecticism being American (cultural) imperialism. I wonder why the discussions on English streams don't go to those ideas or questions? C'est tres interessant pour moi. It was also very funny too! I was just thinking of the debt 4th world and ambient owes to say Don Cherry or Abdul-Malik, even Miles or Hamid Drake tbh maybe Milford Graves too, without their love of eclecticism we wouldn't have this amazing genre, that's still evolving into new strands of dub and techno! I'm going on now, haha so much to this topic/music. Thanks again Fred!

[@iblamesummers]

great segment. very informative. shamefully, I only have the Hassell record and it took me forever to get that.

[@bigstar1000]

Good thing is with Hassell, there are plenty of affordable records to be found

[@jonlevinson3000]

Okay! The bigstar1K luck comes through again - found a used, promo copy of "Passion Sources" a few days after this . two days later I found a sealed copy?! Sheesh ... already have "Plus from Us" on CD. and speaking of 4th World - bought a copy of Arve Henricksen / Kjetil Husebø "Sequential Stream" - on sale from our friends in Italy - recommended.

[@bigstar1000]

Well I seem to act as a good luck charm here. Hope it continues. By 'our friends in Italy' do you mean Soundohm? I'm only guessing, but I have never bought from them so I wouldn't know.

[@jonlevinson3000]

@@bigstar1000 yes I mean Soundohm

[@cedricfeschotte835]

Great pick for the return of the gimme ten Fred! I took a bunch of notes as I have just dipped my toes into the genre and like it very much. It's amazing how prolific some of those musicians are. I've gotten into Steve Roach and Muslimgauze lately - both deep rabbit holes! The Aussie bent on the genre makes total sense -- the didgeridoo is a perfect fodder for it. Anyway gimme ten is probably what drew me to your channel ages ago so I'm happy to see its comeback. ✌

[@bigstar1000]

Well I'm glad you appreciate the return of the series. I'm planning more of those because it's a good way of rediscovering sections of my collection. The Gondwanaland in the video is the same one I sent you btw.

[@cedricfeschotte835]

@@bigstar1000 I LOVE it!

[@gidgetmaurer123]

One of my favorite genres at the moment and for a long time. Thx for your recommendations. I personally love the Muslimgauze Extreme stuff the most but the one you showed and Veiled Sisters are both great.

[@bigstar1000]

Yes agreed, those Muslimgauze titles are killer indeed. Thanks for stopping by andsharing your thoughts!

[@AlesPickar]

Oh yes, "Zul'm" is my favourite one.

[@TheDigitalGramophone]

Very nice, Fred. Good to see another Gimme Ten. Slowcore was the last one? Maybe one more since then. I have the two Hassell records and Passion. Will look into these others, as I’m not familiar. Cheers ✌🏻

[@bigstar1000]

Thanks man, appreciate you stopping by. It's a beautiful subgenre of ambient more folks should dig into.

[@philipford6183]

To me, Fourth World music is typified by a mixture of Western music tech (primarily electronic) with native percussion and instrumentation (and sometimes vocals). I recommend Prem Joshua (fav track 'Bolo Hari'). Indian music and percussion married with a melodic Western sensibility. Beautiful.

[@bigstar1000]

Well, although I didn't per se articulate what you said there, I think it was implied through the musicians (such as Eno and P.Gabriel) and the choice of treatments and instruments I spoke about, but yes, it is a mix between east and west. When I was thinking how to describe it, I was so hung up on doing it justice that I forgot to mention certain aspects.

[@AlesPickar]

@philipford6183 You are certainly not wrong, and those categorisations are rarely set in stone. But as a description it would apply to any kind of World Music, or World Beat. And Jon Hassell, who coined the term, had a very precise, and yet quite abstract definition of "Fourth World Music". Particularly, to distinguish it from general Folklore and the sound, that was about to become "World Music". I guess, pure "4th World" must achieve the appearance of being exceedingly focused on a cultural narrative, or idea, while being a mere illusion at the same time. That's why "Passion" by Gabriel is such a strong example of "4th World", because it basically creates a completely convincing musical landscape, representing Judea around 32AD, while at a closer look having musically absolutely nothing to do with that time or region. So I guess "4th World" is often musically very speculative.

[@AlesPickar]

@@bigstar1000 For me, a great analogy for "4th World Music" would be the famous painting "La trahison des images (Ceci n’est pas une pipe)" by René Magritte from 1929. This mixture of visual photorealism and pure abstraction of the meaning is something that works under a similar paradigm as Jon Hassell's musical idea. Particularly when turning a Jazz trumpet into a highly convincing mysterious Polynesian (or whatever) instrument used on an island, that probably doesn't exist on a map. So basically all Jon Hassell records shout have a sticker on them, that says: "Ceci n'est pas World Music". 🙂

[@diamond_marimba]

love this realm of music as you know, a few here that I've not investigated in a while or ever, will definitely look for a copy of freedom lapse.

[@bigstar1000]

I think you should be able to score that LP for cheap. Here they are still under $40 (AUD) so they wouldn't set you back $$$

[@christopherkibler511]

Thanks Fred. A very good Gimme Ten, gathering various artists under the fourth world umbrella. Some I hadn't considered, but it makes sense following your presentation. You started out your video where I began my journey, with Jon Hassell's Fourth World, V1. - Chris

[@bigstar1000]

John Hassell's Fourth World records are the ultimate starting point. Thanks Chris for stopping by!

[@pereplex6933]

Sur tes conseil jvais investiguer sur john Fahey merci fred bise franc comtoise

[@bigstar1000]

Tu as dû mettre le commentaire sous la mauvaise vidéo, mais pas grave, je le prends quand même. Merci ami franc-comtois!

[@AlesPickar]

Salut! Of course, I could not ignore a video about one of my favorite sub-genres. Great to see O Yuki Conjugate being shown. This band is part of my life since 1990 and they are still pretty much alive and kicking in style. Great segment on Muslimgauze. You're so right. Bryn would freak out in 2024 and probably make 10 albums in a year. And I see that meanwhile you got the Richard Horowitz album. Is this the reissue with the Paul-Bowles-letter inside? So funny, Bowles writing something like: "Your album title is stupid, but what do I care..." :-)) Anyway, the best part for me was showing me some records I didn't know at all. I will look into the Bebo Baldan record. And I need to find this Finis Africae record. I have an album by Luis Delgado, called "El Hechizo De Babilonia", which is very charming and sophisticated. But also very orchestral.

[@bigstar1000]

Moin Ales! Glad to see you here again. You would be well-versed in this genre of music indeed as you favour ethno/world centric artists. My copy of Eros in Arabia does not have the letter, oh well. That Luis Delgado lp would be killer!

[@Chris4127basket]

Magnifique ce gimme 10. Pas mal de surprises. Mais ça va très loin de ce genre. J'ai découvert muslimgauze avec Stunty et maintenant toi. Fascinant! Une autre découverte ce Juan Belda. Excellent, merci pour le partage en tout cas! Bonne semaine

[@bigstar1000]

Merci de ton passage mon ami! Muslimgauze est en effet une belle découverte qui ne cesse de m'épater.

[@philbell5774]

This is what I love about videos like this. They reaquaint me with old friends I haven't visited in some time and introduce me to new music I'm sure will be old friends in the future.

[@bigstar1000]

I'm glad I made the effort of making it then. Thanks as per usual Phil!