Gintoki vs. Takasugi | Gintama: Episode 304 and 305 [REACTION + DISCUSSION]

[@Ezret]

God, these episodes were good... IMPORTANT NOTE: On the website, the episodes will still be listed in numerical order and NOT chronological order. This means episodes 300-328 will appear BEFORE episodes 329-341, not after!

[@yorozuyagin3507]

Another day, another reminder that Gintama gave me depression lmao

[@EliR_21]

Funny how this was the most expected fight in Gintama and we ended just wanting them to stop.

[@honsai7409]

Ikr, I just wanted them to be happy together again, because we had just learned just how important they are to eachother.

[@Ezret]

Every single time we cut back to the present just broke my heart.

[@kendra_t]

I think about this comment a lot

[@ravishbhasin7041]

What hits you so strongly isn't that Takasugi isn't able to bear his sensei's death, but rather the fact that Gin had to bear that cross...he had to kill someone who was more than a family to him for him and Katsura. The helplessness and weakness he felt, the pain he felt, the rage he felt was a brutal slap in his face when he saw Gin silently crying. Never in his life he saw him with such a gloomy sad face, the face man he dueled countless times...the face of man he admired was first time in life mired in tears because his weakness. He didn't hate Gintoki nor bakufu, he only hated himself. The only reason he walks path of destruction is because he knows there is someone who'll end him. Yet Gintoki bears all that tragedy and continues to live, A proud warrior who should be loved and respected...lives in the corner like a abandoned rat, to this day limping from that tragedy. To him he thought he would become the villain of the story so he could allow him to finally end him and regain himself. However He never was truly a villain, Gin had protected that silver soul that resided in him as well. To the very End, Takasugi was never a villain, he was just Takasugi...a proud warrior, a silver soul, a man beseiged by tragedy, yet silently a caring man in his heart, a man who deeply respected his comrades to extreme, basically a fucking Tsundere too. He was a Hero who chose to be villain for his friend, not because hate...but to give him the chance to avenge the loss of his teacher...but doing so would not help Gintoki...yet he was ready to go all the way and not be half assed...no matter what may come.

[@kermabit6427]

Soooo, do you remember, way back in the Benizakura Arc, when Katsura said to Takasugi "Takasugi, do you know how many times I have also wanted to reduce this world to smoldering ashes? However, that man has always endured it... Gintoki... He who has the most reason to hate this world has always endured it. " that line hits hard now. There are a ton of other things that hit way harder now, knowing what they went through. For example, Gintokis gambling, sugar and alcohol addiction. They were most likely both caused by his depression resulting from killing Shoyo and the war. If you remember, during the Shinigami Arc it was revealed that Gintoki offered his life in exchange for the safety of his comrades and Asaemon. He fully intended to let himself executed then, just wanting to die. In that same Arc child Asaemon promised to execute the imprisoned Gintoki so that he would be able to go to heaven in peace, this moved him visibly. The line child Gintoki said when he met Takasugi and Katsura for the first time while the shitty kids were picking a fight with Takasugi and Katsura, was also the same line he said when he met Shinpachi for the first time. Remember in the Red Spider Arc, with Tsukuyos teacher, how furious Gintoki was at how her Teacher was treating her, even saying that he has no right to call himself her teacher. So yeah, there is tons of stuff that takes on a whole different meaning now that you know this.

[@SampanGhosal]

I was about to comment that

[@konstantinqnkov2305]

To be fair watching Gintama after you know the backstory of the characters is an experience of itself. Then you notice the small meaningless things for fun and gags are not so meaningless. Most of the characters gags are rooted in some deep background (especially the annoying in the beginning e-mail one from the next arc)

[@carterblack1833]

I remember reading a comment saying originally Tsukuyo wasn’t supposed to come back after Yoshiwara in Flames. But fans took a liking to her and asked for more that Sorachi wrote her arc. Which I could believe because some things mentioned in YF were changed in RS. It said Asaemon was supposed to debut earlier and later joined. But I’m guessing Reaper arc was hard to even squeeze in after since Sorachi ended up forgetting about her. It’s making me rethink this whole series.

[@zepsu856]

Gintoki is the greatest character in fiction

[@juanthegreat3954]

For those who didn't understand why Takasugi was on path of destruction, was not only because his sensei died, but also because he saw with his very own eye the suffering it brought to his own bestfriend. The very same bestfriend that never shed a single tear until that very moment.

[@honsai7409]

The tragedy that resides in this episode... Both Takasugi and Gintoki love and care for eachother so, so much. Takasugi's thirst for revenge is not fueled by Shoyo's death only, it's also because of the pain Gintoki had to endure. He is angry on Gintoki's behalf too. He hates the world because the world caused Gintoki to endure such pain on top of taking Shoyo away, and he hates himself for being so weak and forcing Gintoki to make such a choice. We even see Takasugi contemplating suicide this episode. But he doesn't, because he believes suicide would be the easy way out. Takasugi wants to punish himself, hence, "hence wants a vengeance that would hurt much more than directing his blade to himself", as Gintoki said. Because he loves Gintoki so much, hurting Gintoki would cause him so much more pain, it would be the greatest punishment, and the thing same applies to Gintoki as well: "Because our sworn enemies are ourselves". What makes Takasugi so different in the path that they took is because he doesn't understand why Gintoki would choose him to save instead of Shoyo, because he knows Gintoki cherished Shoyo more than anyone, even himself, which fuels Takasugi's guilt and self-hatred. Which is why throughout the whole fight, Takasugi questions things and tries to get an answer from Gintoki. So when Gintoki says to him that he didn't choose Takasugi, he actually chose Shoyo, he chose what Shoyo wanted to protect and what Shoyo held dear in his heart, his students; Takasugi finally understands Gintoki's perspective and his choice. The self-hatred and guilt can finally mellow down, because no, he was not the reason for Shoyo's death and Gintoki's pain because Gintoki chose him, that's wasn't the case. He sees that Gintoki really cared for Shoyo above all, and made his choice in accordance with that, which is something Takasugi can get behind. That's why Gintoki says to him: "If you were in my place, you would have done the same". Because Takasugi also cherished Shoyo above all, if he were to choose, he would also choose to protect what Shoyo cherished. What Gintoki is doing now, is still honoring that choice he made, protecting what Shoyo held dear, in other words Takasugi's soul. With that, Takasugi is finally able to come to peace with himself, and let go of his self-torment and thirst for destruction, including his own. Both Gintoki and Takasugi are two of the greatest characters in fiction imo, and this episode stole too many tears from me. Thanks for the wonderful reaction!

[@bukanchannel8365]

You worded it damn too well. Thank you. Liked so he can read it

[@duz3944]

I saw someone pointing out the fact that Katsura, after Shoyo's death started to impersonate him (he starts wearing the Kimono the same way as Shoyo, he even grew out his hair) and that blew my mind honestly, that just shows how much of an impact Shoyo had on Katsura

[@bergkatze3186]

Yeah... back then zura has his hair ties up

[@jakeDgirl]

A Ytuber called Simiji analyzed their character designs. We don't know if it's deliberate writing by the gorilla, but: Takasugi wears a kimino, plays traditional shamisen, smokes a traditional pipe, only uses a sharp sword, because he is stuck in the past. Katsura, as the pro-japan freedom fighter/terrorist that he is, also wears a kimono and a sharp sword. But unlike Takasugi, Katsura's other main weapon is a modern-looking time bomb, and has an Amanto for a new bestfriend; showing that Katsura may want the Amanto higher powers to leave, but his goal is always for the future of japan. Gin wears a shirt, pants, boots, with an overlapping kimono. He uses a wooden sword, and his friends/children are an Amanto and a human. Gin is the middle ground of traditional samurai and the futuristic modern influence of the Amanto.

[@Skadi.-]

but he became retarded not like shoyo😂

[@PoPo-qp8zq]

“The last thing I saw with my left eye…was your face” 😢

[@RyanWsm]

Gintama just keeps reminding us why it's the best anime ever...

[@ramonxr2623]

305 is still the best anime episode i've ever seen, absolute peak.

[@sosfof1164]

Greatest fight in anime history!

[@wassahyves-romaricseri5678]

Big yes

[@upr1ce]

Gintoki vs Utsuro >=

[@Skadi.-]

yesyes

[@juanthegreat3954]

​@@upr1ceWell I am kinda split between Utsuro vs Gintoki and Takasugi vs Gintoki

[@wassahyves-romaricseri5678]

Best arc of the decade

[@jayced8233]

LMFAO at your realization 28:44 😭🤣 I feel so bad for laughing but YEP!! It's crazy when you remember there's a lot more still happening besides just the Gintoki vs Shinsuke fight.

[@artyomloukashov636]

A parody show that smokes 99.9% legit ones. Only a gorilla could fuck up that badly.

[@franklynjackson7359]

Notice how Gintoki doesn't hold back even though he clearly doesn't hate Takasugi and would've like to save him. All because the life taught him that sometimes he has to make sacrifices (as we saw in the flashback). When he faces a choice between his present friends and his former comrade who's stuck in the past and now threatens everything that's dear to Gintoki, the choice is clear and there's no place for hesitation. It's like Naruto vs Sasuke for adults. Absolute god-tier main character.

[@jakeDgirl]

"Naruto vs Sasuke for adults" I absolutely agree. Naruto is one of my 1st animes, so it will always have a special place in my heart, but oh man... watching the show as an adult...Naruto's obsession with bringing Sasuke back while Sasuke becomes increasingly a lost cause annoyed me to hell. Especially when Sasuke "kidnapped" Killer B, the Raikage's sworn brother. At that moment in time, as far as they all know, Killer B could already be dead from getting his tail beast sucked out. And Naruto had the gall to ask the Raikage to forgive Sasuke. The audacity. I love how Gin sticks to his ideals. Accdg to Gin's ideals, Takasugi may be fighting for something right (freeing the country from the Tendoshu puppeteers), but his way of doing it is destructive and must be stopped. Gin knows that if he wants to stop Takasugi, it would be a fight to the death. And Gin made peace with that, because it would be the right thing to do. And unlike Naruto and Sasuke's fast (2-ish) yrs of friendship, Gin and Takasugi actually grew up with each other for a decade.

[@ameftowriter1319]

I honestly cried when Shoyo was killed like that. Oh god. Though everything just made sense since then. And thinking about it, even the goofy aspects of Gin and Zura made sense too. Gin fulfills his promises no matter what even if it meant dirtying his hands, or even killing his own master...

[@makima2983]

Shoyo sensei is one of the most beautiful men in anime and he is so underrated 😅

[@juanthegreat3954]

This anime is goated. I wish I forgot everything about this arc and rewatch this

[@jakeDgirl]

The beauty of Gintama is that we prayed for so long for this arc to happen. When we are finally granted serious arcs where people might die, we suddenly wish we could go back to the crazy, stupid, daily life of Gintama. When we finally get Takasugi vs Gintoki, and see their backstories together, we wish they'd stop fighting and reconcile immediately. Another thing is that Gin's backstory was only ever teased in opening, endings, and other arcs like droplets. They don't beat you over in the head that he has an obvious tragic past (cough-Naruto school swing-cough). I also find it wonderfully odd that we never see Gin & Takasugi together in the show. The last time they SPOKE to each other (in present time/not-flashback) was in ep 17!!! They appear together in the same arcs but never cross paths or talk to each other. And yet, with just 2 episodes in the SA arc, I am very convinced of their brotherhood. Excellent storytelling.

[@SasukeTurkey]

Perfect episodes to release on Takasugi's birthday I have to say. My favorite episode in anything ever btw.

[@frostyfrenchtoast]

Makes me tear up everytime lmao

[@NamionepieceBlogspot]

When I see these episodes, I cry every time. We understand why Gintoki, Takasugi and Katsura became like this. Takasugi wants all destroy for revenge, Katsura wants to continue their fight against the bakufu and Gintoki just wanted to live a normal life without problems or any ties. Even if I understand Takasugi, Gintoki is the one who suffered the most and therefore he is the one who should want to destroy the world. By the way, in the Benizakura arc, Katsura tells that to Takasugi. It's normal that Gintoki to be in depression after that. We can see that he is in depression from the beginning, even in opening (in the op 1, we can see this nigtmare for example). Otherwise, @kermabit6427 said all :)

[@honsai7409]

I mean, one of the major reasons Takasugi wants to get revenge IS because he knows Gintoki suffered so much. His eye, which the last thing it ever saw being Gintoki's tear make him so much more vengeful for Gintoki's sake too, as he said so himself in this episode.

[@NamionepieceBlogspot]

@@honsai7409 I'm agree with you but it's not a reason for destroy the world and Gintoki(he wants kill him). Takasugi is just became slave of this angry. We later learn that there is another reason but Takasugi is angry at the whole world and Gintoki should also be mad at the world, but not :)

[@alxfuentx]

Every absurd joke, every laugh and selfless help to others, every moment of kindness, our boy carried the most horrific past possible, always with the best attitude. Gintoki is the best main character in any anime.

[@tommyfa]

Gintama and Neo Armstrong Cyclone Jet Armstrong Cannon really have high quality finish

[@khol1611]

We came here to save our sensei And ended kill him instead... Just imagine, starting the war just for their teacher, but ended in doom or hell situation... If he being a villain, this anime would end in 12 eps as average modern anime

[@jakeDgirl]

When the power of friendship in anime didn't help the main character succeed :(

[@cbctebasrajeb81]

Does anyone think that since Takasugi and Gintoki see each other as alter ego, technically they're doing self harm to themselves to vent.

[@honsai7409]

Yeah Gintoki said so himself. They love eachother so, so much. And their sworn-enemies are themselves, as Takasugi said so. They both hate themselves. So hurting eachother, which hurts much more then hurting themselves, is their way of punishing themselves.

[@Skadi.-]

takasugi been muttering to himself "why wouldn't you stick your sword into your chest" he's asking why gintoki doesn't kilI himself out of guilt

[@honsai7409]

@@Skadi.- Umm no? Takasugi is talking to himself there. We even see him holding a knife in his hand.

[@guffawyap245]

The ninja way (rindo) in naruto is actually similar to the word bushido, which also means samurai way

[@eyeless4927]

GINTOKIIIIIIII!!!! so goddamn iconic scream

[@mad_leo1558]

bushido means his purpose, his goal, the reason he is "human." Without going into SPOLERS, this is what all of Gintama is about, finding his bushido.

[@joshuabaroro5171]

Am I dreaming??? Woww you're really hereeee!!!😊

[@雪怪-w6g]

the animation/scene becomes so beautiful when it cuts to flash back/Shoyo

[@雪怪-w6g]

8:20 basically, the way of samurai

[@Skadi.-]

sorachi hideaki is a GOAT writer, thanks for giving us this peak fiction ❤

[@juanthegreat3954]

Not so Fun Fact. After seeing this episode, Gintoki's funny and goofy side might be his coping mechanism in dealing his PTSD and loss

[@Skadi.-]

the trio hve different coping situation, takasugi became an extremist and katsura too but not as crazy as takasugi's way and gintoki trying to move on built a relationship with others

[@rbungba223]

Fun Fact: Gintoko and Katsura act like children because they never get to be child...

[@squalosq]

Gorilla sadist

[@juanthegreat3954]

17:48 **SPOILERS** . . . . . Well funnily enough, Shoyo could literally could do that if he wanted too. But, we all knew that Shoyo is bounded by pacifism in order to contain Utsuro

[@Root7Music]

Gintama💯🔥

[@Skadi.-]

why takasugi coping of shoyo's death in extreme way? its because he envied gintoki who has someone who loved him dearly which is shoyo, takasugi doesnt have someone like that so he cherished shoyo's so much that he wish to destroy the world's that killed shoyo

[@D1Meatriding]

Istg there was a scene where takasugi stabs oboros eye and says “make sure you burn this into your memory, too. Remember the last face you saw with that eye, was it mine or his.” Idk if u cut it out or the website did

[@Ezret]

Been a while since I watched this episode, but yes, I believe you are correct. I’m sure I remember this.

[@D1Meatriding]

oh alr love yo content btw :D