Girlfriend Wrongly Accusing Me Of Hiding My Salary From My Co-worker r/Relationships

[@theconfusedvampire]

S2: Every American bone in my body wants to sarcastically reply to those people with that mean girls quote.

[@brittneybrat8911]

Which one??

[@arty_girl4697]

@@brittneybrat8911 probably "oh my god, Karen, you can't just ask people why they're white!"

[@CasuallyBear]

Its actually illegal in the US for an employer to retaliate or take any action against an employee who discusses THEIR salary with another employee. (There are specific exceptions for people who know others salaries as part of their role, such as HR or management. They cannot discuss what someone else makes with someone else.) Corporate propaganda has made us think its socially uncouth to talk about salaries. It is not. I actively remind people of the National Labor Relations Act of 1935.

[@shadowkissed2370]

The thing is, you have to be able to prove that they retaliated against you for that reason. Quite often employers do it very sneakily and have a separate "reason" already set up.

[@DragonflyandTheWolf]

My last boss told one of my coworkers that she's not allowed to discuss how much she's paid at work, even though we had a worker's rights poster in the bathroom where all of us can see it, specifically saying that yes we are allowed to talk about pay.

[@nykthosacolyte5710]

​@@shadowkissed2370except that you have to only prove it's MORE LIKELY than not why they did so and to people that know employers do that type of stuff...

[@shadowkissed2370]

@@nykthosacolyte5710 actually, you have to prove they retaliated against you for that specific reason. Not that its possible they might have.

[@krisCrashTV]

her colleague certain retaliated, hope she finds a new job

[@SLTheOneAndAwesome19]

Story 1: Hahahahhaha screw OP. At my last job, I found out that I was being paid less than the new hire *I was managing and training*. The first thing people ask when I talk about it? "He was a man, wasn't he?" When I complained, the company gave bs excuses for why they allowed that to happen and raised my salary just enough to make more than my subordinate. Went and found another company willing to pay me nearly double for less work, and my VP was pissed because he wanted to groom me to replace my manager and he realized the whole team was going to collapse without me. Hope saving on that management program and salary was worth it for them. 💅

[@chickensandwich8808]

Glad to hear it.

[@Rose-yt5hi]

This is why job/company hopping has become such a trend. Why stay and fight for a 5% raise when you can go elsewhere and get 20%+ from the get-go? Companies need to realize that if they want to retain talent, they need to be proactive about pay raises and keep up with what hiring companies looking for that same talent are willing to pay.

[@dcg590]

Has nothing to do with gender myo7 chose the job and stayed

[@QCoraA]

As a woman, speaking from experience with my current job, anyone who is a man who gets hired for the same job im doing tends to get paid more. Meanwhile the young lady who was hired to help in my position and ended up having to help in the office as well (so she essentially had two jobs) was getting paid less than me. It happens here and has happened in previous jobs as well. This is not confirmation bias, it is a lived experience for a large part of the population and anyone who denies it willfully has their head in the sand. Im one of the lucky ones who was able to ask for a raise and get it without any repercussions.

[@Schwiegermutter]

So you are a woman that asks for more pay and got it? But if woman don't ask and don't get it it's because they are woman?

[@shadowmuted-d4h]

Probably because they're working more. There's no longer any mystery around it, women prefer to take it easy in the workplace.

[@QCoraA]

@shadowmuted-d4h You have no reading comprehension if that's what you took away from my comment.

[@shadowmuted-d4h]

@@QCoraA There's a wage gap and there should be. Giving out raises simply because someone that's working less asks is a great way to lose key players.

[@QCoraA]

@shadowmuted-d4h I can agree on that, but there are so many factors that should also decide this other than gender, and yet gender is often the deciding factor of who gets paid more, as you can see in my original post.

[@anjaderuiter6975]

Story 1: How does OP know that his colleague didn't negotiate for higher wages? Maybe their employer told her that they couldn't afford to pay her more.

[@phoenix72999]

Yeah, his selfishness and arrogance made my skin crawl. What a rude asshole. Oh, boohoo, Sarah doesn't know boundaries, and I also made my girlfriend apologize. Because I am BETTER and what I believe is NORMAL, now get it into your heads, everyone! Yeah, right. Let's not meet.

[@locusxe1411]

Sucks to suck

[@jestersreign7530]

​@phoenix72999 I'm sorry how was he selfish?

[@phoenix72999]

@jestersreign7530 Well, he didn't want drama so he wasn't even willing to tell her that he makes more, and ask her not to say where she got it from, like the comments suggested. He made as much as he wanted to make and as long as he could keep doing so in peace, he didn't care about what happened to her. I was also a bit mad when I typed that, because I thought that making the girlfriend apologize was a step too far when she just felt bad for the other woman. But yeah, that was my reasoning.

[@jestersreign7530]

@phoenix72999 I kind of get what you were saying. But after hearing some posts about people who got sneakingly fired for disciplinary reasons. That either didn't happen or were obviously staged. I understand why he didn't want the drama. He would be risking his job, future promotions, or other jobs in whatever industry he's working if the word gets around. I get that it was something that would have been right to do. But he's not dating the co-worker he is not friends with the coworker. Putting his financial livelihood at risk to do the right thing only sounds good on paper. The drama that would be caused by that could have spread throughout the entire company. And very easily made him Enemy Number One to upper management. Doing the right thing comes at a call sometimes. Also he didn't make his girlfriend apologize she understood his point of view and apologized on her own. Just like his co-worker apologized on her own when she realized she asked him a question that made him uncomfortable. Not a lot of people like to talk about their finances with coworkers regardless of the law

[@LePhantome273]

all I can think about for Story 2 is 'Oh my god Karen, you can't just ask people why they're WHITE.' XD seriously tho, I'll admit as an American I'm not super up-to-date with the ongoings of the world, but even I'm aware of some of the apartheid shit that's gone on in South Africa. I would also, at the absolute least of it, give shit a google or browse on Reddit if I was about to meet a future In-Law from a completely different country and/or culture. it's not even that hard, like WTAF also, good on OP for walking out of there and not giving a third chance, we love to see it!

[@notconvincedgranny6573]

What did those people think apartheid was about? What about Afrikaners? Just a history lesson - oh, wait - we don't really teach history in school these days.

[@gilles111]

Story 1, let girlfriend pay the next date as "saying sorry" and keeping distance with coworker as she can't be trusted after overstepping a boundary once and apologizing for it? And still dares to say everything is fine and cleared? Wow, I can fully understand why they scorched OP in the comments of the update. What an immature person he is. I'm very glad I'm in an open and transparent industry, every one can look up the wages at internet and see how much everybody is making. With X years experience you make Y salary, no difference between male or female workers. And that's how it should be for everyone.

[@KyrieChii]

He's a very self-centered person who doesn't want to admit that his 'Y Chromosome' (& the fact that society specifically conditions men & women to respond differently to certain situations) is the reason he's being paid better than his female coworker (who has both more education *&* major seniority compared to him). Accepting that would be a hit to his ego.

[@gilles111]

@@KyrieChii What if he would tell his colleague and she manage to get a higher salary too and is going to get paid more than him, that would be true horror for him, I guess?

[@MikeWeathers-fo1vs]

@@gilles111 so everyone should make the same thing regardless of skill, talent, education? The CEO should make the same as the assembly line worker? The cashier, stock boy should make the same? The restaurant manager and the waitress should make the same? The master plumber/mechanic/carpenter and his(her) apprentice should make the same? Sure buddy.

[@gilles111]

@@MikeWeathers-fo1vs That's not what I was saying. That's what you want to make out of it to make your line of comment. In the industry I work there are different salary groups, so yes, someone with a senior role makes more than a junior, the same to different management levels or different operators. But when in role A you make Y salary with X experience. Man or woman, no differences. That is how it should be. Never said the janitor should have the same income as the CEO.

[@WhitneyDahlin]

All it takes for evil to win is for good people to do nothing.

[@thesamuraiman]

10:52 >Mom makes stereotypical comments, but can't take a funny joke? >Finance raises his voice and becomes dismissive? Family is flying some red flags.

[@sedna3228]

A lot of times when men negotiate, it’s seen as confident and strong. When women do it they’re seen as bitchy and annoying.

[@chickensandwich8808]

Yes. This is a real bias. It's nkt even necessarily intentional but it's one that happens. It's both a blind spot and a systemic issue.

[@tamsel814]

Yeah, my workspace has started a unconscious bias program last year. How the same behaviour can be seen differently between genders is one of the main foci. Its not just salary discussions, but also many so called leadership abilities.

[@Schwiegermutter]

That may be because woman work less then man.

[@sophdog2564]

OP says gender has nothing to do with it as if her starting salery isn't less than what his was a year ago 🙄

[@LotusBloom0309]

As a woman, we are socialized to accept what is given and that asking for more will result in us getting branded as “difficult.”

[@Goat-wh1qw]

In a previous job, a new colleague mentioned she was happy with her contract (which was around 4k less than me). I called our manager there and then asking why she was on considerably less than me, h\e stuttered mentioning experience. I requested that her pay was brought inline with mine as it was a general admin job in which she was already doing the same work as myself. She got the immedite payrise (did push for back pay too but was a step too far lol)

[@GloriaGinniver-hi8tb]

I wish there were more people like you, good on you helping your colleague

[@LadyLeomon]

I have to ask: did everyone clap at the end?

[@Goat-wh1qw]

@@LadyLeomon funnily no, small 4 person department and only 3 knew, did get a coffee tho :)

[@Floratic]

@@Goat-wh1qw That was kind of you! 🤗

[@AnnieAnnieBuckwheatCakes]

Story about the South African lady: as soon as the BF demanded she apologize to the ignorant hypocrites, she should've ended the relationship. When you marry someone, the family is an add-on. Even if the partner is a winner, if the extended family are terrible, why live like that?

[@eldeano9964]

Um, how long has the mother known that her son was dating a foreigner, and not done any research or asked him questions?... And sarcasm is a very underrated and effective tool against narcissists and people with egos.

[@rashidasimmons6180]

"Because I negotiated..." But his starting salary was more than hers even though its years later and shes more qualified... How is it not about gender...

[@jeffdredd1172]

For the same reason as the first 3 words. He negotiated, she didn't.

[@niceguyatul]

@@jeffdredd1172 Also, the organisation valued him enough to raise his salary in order to retain him. At 39, the female colleague stayed there without any knowledge of freshers salaries or there on? That doesn't make any sense.

[@lilywong9672]

@@jeffdredd1172 But his starting salary is still higher. But of course, a male like you wouldn't understand.

[@FirstChronus]

Ya my gf and I work in the same company. I introduced her. She negotiated and started a dollar less than me and I’ve been there for years (more than a decade.) I didn’t get mad. I was happy cause for years most of the expenses were on me so we were over the hill with her pay. Edit to add. I was the one who negotiated with them for her. No joke; women for the most part are not good at negotiating. Sorry but it’s the truth. My mom and sister are the exceptions though. Don’t mess with my mom.

[@Freya1412]

​​@@lilywong9672Yeah because he negotiated a high starting salary. Do you have a problem understanding that? I had this exact issue with an older colleague who accused me of being favoured at our company because I out earned her and my starting salary was significantly higher than hers. We are both women but I had no children and never took extra time off, worked overtime, took opportunities to study and advance and I negotiated my starting salary because I could. She, like you, chose to believe she was eternally a victim. She blamed age and even said I slept my way to the top. I suppose if I was a man it would have been misogyny like you are using right now. Even though the guy negotiated his salary fair and square.

[@someanon1984]

OP1 is kind of insufferable ngl.

[@evacelik8279]

I am not amerikan in Sweden we have the Union negotiate our Salaries equal pay for equal work. No diskutioner at all

[@robertx8020]

Even if someone is working a lot longer with the same company?

[@FreijaVanir]

About how much of your negotiated salary do you pay in taxes? (Income, VAT, eco tax, luxury tax, fuel and vice tax, “free helalthcare” tax? ) Where I am, all taxes combined add up to 65-70%.

[@GloriaGinniver-hi8tb]

The op is British and we do have unions

[@susankaempfer8427]

These days, America thrives on inequality.

[@susankaempfer8427]

And just for the record, I grew up in America, and we learned about apartheid. They were being catty to see if a) she would take it b) if sonny would defend her. They must be Deep South. I can almost hear their voices.

[@loganjoh1]

Story 2: well that is one way to destroy your relationship also the fact OP apologized at all is gross. The fact that she apologized for her walking red flag of a boyfriend, and his mom and aunt continued to spout stereotypes that they made up about OP's home and he got mad when she walked out calling her rude what a pathetic excuse for a "man."

[@susankaempfer8427]

I have a feeling the whole “respect” thing would be VERY one sided. They’re allowed to be ignorant and imply she’s lying, but she snarks back and all hell breaks loose…

[@artemismoon7655]

The first story: That guy was determined to avoid doing anything that might shatter is illusions of his own superiority. He just assumed she has never advocated for herself, therefore he deserves to earn more than her because he did. His willingness to assert himself makes him superior to his coworker. It is very possible she has and they upped her pay to that pitiful amount and acted as if they were being generous. It is very possible she started off at a lower pay than he started off.

[@valgardener7656]

"That guy was determined to avoid doing anything that might shatter his illusions of his own superiority". You nailed it!

[@iAstra]

Given that her current pay is lower than his starting, I definitely think he's an asshole for not telling her and for not seeing how fucked up that is.

[@LadyLeomon]

@@iAstraokay, let’s play a game: swap the sexes, now is the female OP obligated to tell her coworker who is paid less what _her_ salary is??? (Prediction: no of course not, that’s private!)

[@helenasouza9196]

​@@LadyLeomon Obligated?? No one is obligated to do anything. It's more of a moral thing ( you know... Doing the right thing) and destigmatizing something that affects everyone regardless of gender (but moreso women). To answer your question... Yes, it would still be the morally right thing to do for female OP to tell male coworker about her salary. The main issue in this particular case was OP trying to gaslight everyone into believing he deserves the credit for his raises, because he "advocated for himself well" when he knows nothing and has no idea if his coworker also tried to advocate for herself or not and what the company told her. Plus and more importantly, his entry level salary was already higher than hers, when she's better qualified and have been working at that company for longer.

[@wairgald]

@@LadyLeomon Um, yes. Nice try, but you aren't going to trip up people with that ridiculous "gotcha". Those that believe everyone should talk about their salaries believe that everyone should talk about them, regardless of gender. Oh, and before you say it, no I don't care that you weren't talking to me.

[@deifieddata4462]

Dudes just say "men get higher wages because they negotiate better not because of inequality" and turn their brains off lol

[@JoshJohnson-em8fu]

LOL at Story #2's fiance. "Respect is important to my family" says someone very disrespectful, in a very disrespectful way, in defense of people being disrespectful. It's all to clear that he just meant "other people deferring to us is very important to my family."

[@ajjean2720]

Story 1- ok my problem with the “it has nothing to do with gender” argument is that, you can’t really prove that. That what makes things like sexism hard to identify/prove. Your employers aren’t stupid. They aren’t going to outright tell you “I’m giving you this raise because you’re a man”. They know that will bite them in the butt and possibly lead to a lawsuit. So they find other reasons to continue their sexist practices under the table while trying to appear inclusive.

[@tamsel814]

Plus there are subconscious biases. A man may show initiative or leadership while a woman showing the same behaviour can be viewed as bossy.

[@vlastelinprislic286]

If you make the claim, it's on you to provide evidence. If you see something as gender discrimination, you need evidence to back it up. Do you have any?

[@Gotabonetopick]

Starting salary at companies is often sneakily raised over time. Happened often at my old job. Newly hired men AND women were coming in being paid 20% more than me. This is actually fairly common and not a gender thing. They often don't want older emplyees knowing so they can keep them at the low starting salary.

[@absolutelyridiculous6743]

In this case, the opposite happened

[@shanoc5902]

@@absolutelyridiculous6743 We actually don't know that. OP started this job less than a year ago, meanwhile Sarah's been working in the industry for over 13 years, that to me suggests Sarah was hired long before OP. And if anyone doesn't know why starting salaries rise overtime, it's because of inflation. As the cost of other stuff rise you can't pull in new employees to start at your job unless you pay them more, meanwhile existing employees who already started working at your company have instead had to get used to making whatever their pay is go farther and farther. Asking for raises is important, but because your employer is incentivized to try to tie every employee down to their starting wage and give few raises overall (since more people will stay than will leave), job hopping regularly becomes important to be paid what you're worth unless you're lucky enough to find an employer who is both smart enough and motivated enough to actively ensure that you don't go looking in the first place.

[@DragonbornMike-ym2er]

​@@absolutelyridiculous6743Listen again, that's exactly the dynamic that the person above described.

[@jimbobjones9330]

The starting salary part didn't bug me, and people need to stop fixating on that. It's everything since, and OP's abhorrent attitude that's the problem.

[@ScaryBoomBoomGun]

Story 1 Add On - They need to TEACH people (ALL PEOPLE) how to negotiate salaries. This should be a required course in high school.

[@KyrieChii]

I imagine the corporations that actively lobby (re: bribe) our politicians (which is LEGAL here in the US) would assure no such course is ever offered on the tax payer's dime.

[@melissabaril3363]

It's not actually a lack of knowledge. The world doesn't respond to women the same when they do the same things as men, sometimes. Salary negotiation is one of those times.

[@ScaryBoomBoomGun]

@melissabaril3363 Untrue. Do some people respond differently to women negotiate salaries? Yes. Are women by and large no used to negotiating salaries? Also yes. Neither of these statements are true in all instances. Until/unless people are taught how to negotiate salary, it will not improve.

[@melissabaril3363]

@@ScaryBoomBoomGun are you a woman?

[@melissabaril3363]

@@ScaryBoomBoomGun Are you a woman? You seem to be assuming women don't negotiate for their salary. We do, actually. But much like Ginger Rogers, we have to do it backwards and in heels. We have to ask without asking, get without seeming to want, pressure while appearing compliant, play hardball whole allareribg soft. Some of us could probably teach a thing or two about negotiation. Alas, there is still sexism, so in some instances, you still get a boss who just really really doesn't want you to get ahead. Such is life.

[@Number-vt1fl]

Story 2: it's amazing how many Americans think Africa is just comprised of starving and dehydrated black people who live in mud huts.

[@Juliet-y3g]

How many?

[@AllenB-ji9rm]

​@@Juliet-y3gmore than you're willing to admit

[@dorianleakey]

​@@AllenB-ji9rmthe story is CLEARLY made up. It doesn't even have internal logic. They OP starts with saying they were making stereotypical comments about Sotu Africa then abandons that plot completely to them being surprised white people exist in south Africa, the opposite of a stereotypical comment. The OP is trying to do some weird racial stuff. I think they probably aren't even south African and may struggle to know how white people got there and the different places they came from. Also, South Africans are known for having a shitty accent by Americans. Older Americans would know of South Africa through the Lethal Weapon movies. It's young people who don't get it and here we have a young person who thinks older Americans wouldn't know, THEY WOULD NO MORE THAN THE YOUNG ONES. They are from the generation who heard about it on the news and lived through the end of apartheid, the young people responding don't know about it but think they do and it's dumb and we are all dumber for hearing the stupid made up story.

[@vanzy01]

💯👍🏿

[@drako8343]

@@dorianleakeydamn it. Now I need to watch lethal weapon 2 again. There’s worse things in life than watching a classic I guess.

[@taylorslade961]

Story 1: Here in America, discussing your salary is a FEDERALLY PROTECTED RIGHT. If your employer retaliates against you for discussing your salary, contact your local labor board.

[@Expatexperience64]

Story 1: not about gender, but no real information about how gender and patriarchy plays the long game from cradle to grave in shaping who gets to feel consistently worthy of asking to the larger slice of the pie, bigger piece of meat, more downtime.

[@kiarar.1219]

Exactly! If it wasn’t about gender, whenever they gave him a salary increase they’d at least match hers as she’s way more qualified! It really bothers me when people are intentionally blind to things

[@medusawitchful]

Yea yea blame gender. I got pay more than my male coworkers as woman because I know my worth. Western women really expect everybody to save them! Are you sure you are really strong independent woman at all?

[@aparnarai3708]

@@kiarar.1219 Yeah If she has way better qualifications and is way more experienced then she probably shouldn't be at an entry level job to begin with.

[@kiarar.1219]

@ sometimes that’s what’s available and you have to take it 🤷🏻‍♀️ the job market has been crazy, so let’s not blame the people who need the job for that.

[@drako8343]

@@kiarar.1219you have never run a business if you think one person successfully convincing you to pay more money means you would raise the salaries of everyone else to match

[@TopazFire15]

Story 1: OP is allowed to not want to advocate/help his coworker if he’s worried about retaliation. He’s NOT allowed to piss and moan and say he earned his salary because he negotiated for it, so screw his coworkers, because at no point does he give evidence that she never asked for raises herself. It’s giving “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” energy.

[@dallen3000]

Until we know if the coworker asked for raises, we can't tell if this is sexism. If she's never asked for a raise, then she shouldn't expect her company to just give her more money. Men are more likely, on adverage, to ask for them. But if she has for a one recently, and been rejected for a "lack of funds" and not a lack of performance, then yes, this is sexist. But we need more info on the coworker before you can say for sure. We dont even know if he has other male coworkers that he gets paid more than. Is it sexist if his female coworker gets paid 3k more than 4 other male employees?

[@chickensandwich8808]

What I would say is until we know we can't determine the full degree or at least the degree of seismic within those variables. Sexism is a systemic issue because of a lot of factors. It doesn't mean it should fall on OP to carry that burden for everyone, however, his blatant disregard for sexism being at play in some ways is kind of gross.

[@ndawn90]

Except that is still rooted in sexism, because women are raised to not rock the boat, to acquiesce to things, to go with the flow and not kick up a fuss. And when we do, instead of being seen as being assertive, it's viewed as being aggressive or shrill or b*tchy. And that's not just me saying that, there are a ton of studies that back all of that up. Is it really not sexism when one gender is culturally programmed for their entire lives to be quiet, and when they buck that trend it's viewed as a negative thing when for the other gender it's viewed as a positive? What else do you call that?

[@Floratic]

@dallen3000 We'll never know because the OP chose not to give advice to his colleague on negotiating or looking at what she could get paid at another company and bringing it back to the boss. Instead, he chooses to ignore her. Giving such advice doesn't harm you in the least and keeps your salary a secret. OP is YTA in my eyes.

[@BoxOKittens]

16:00 Ah yes, the "masculine" urge to stand up for yourself.

[@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462]

The masculine urge To be a self righteousness smart ass

[@cattyanamontes5724]

I had a man tell me he didn’t think I should be speaking masculine. That was the last day I spoke to him.

[@ari-ct5dq]

Story 1: OP is delusional and in crazy denial. Sad excuse of a man.

[@magicalmomo9987]

Story 1: "Gender doesn't play a role. I just negotiate better, duh. Even though she's way more experienced than me and I started off being paid more than her, I just make more because I'm way better at negotiating even though I don't even know if she has even had the chance to negotiate or is even bad at it at all. It's not because she's a woman. Also, she clearly doesn't understand work-place boundaries and made me uncomfortable even though she apologized so I'm distancing myself. Also my girlfriend thought she was wrong and is paying for dinner on our next date." Is a very wild update. This is why women continue to be paid less. No workplace solidarity but especially not from men like him. Wow. Like he has the right to not want to discuss it with her but his mentality is shit and I dislike him. Like he didn't even have to tell her his salary, just advice on negotiating would've still sufficed if he asked if she needed help with that but he just ASSUMED she's bad at it or was trying to start drama. Wild as shit.

[@sovereigncrux]

Story 1: Disclosing your salary/wage is often frowned upon in many cultures. And yes, OP is making more for simply being born with a penis. He is younger, less experienced, less educated and less qualified, but climbing faster than his female coworker who has put in the time and effort. He also does not want to help his coworker out because it will affect his future prospects. This is fairly commonplace inequality and why women fought so hard in the 1970s for workplace equality. I am 51, and I doubt I will see workplace equality in my lifetime.

[@Stranglebat]

story 1: did a company write this?

[@FlyingPurplePplEatr]

Story 1: OP seems like a huge AH.

[@lwolfstar7618]

"Because i negotiated", good points by our lad, but also, that's exactly part of what people have started negotiating for, job security for ai and automation to not replace them. With douchebags like that op trying to actively make it harder, we have all the more reason to fight for worker rights and equality

[@heidilynnm6522]

Missing info: She may have a higher education level than OP, but who has more working experience? Who has worked at the company longer? And final question has she tried asking for a pay raise? Different start pay could be because of hands-on working experience. Has OP worked for the company for longer and has a proven quality of work both are possible reasons for granting a pay raise. And finally, if She hasn't asked for a pay raise or hasn't proven to be a good team player why would a company bother handing out pay raises?

[@jimbobjones9330]

She worked at the company much longer per the post. And OP doesn't know whether she's asked for raises or not -- which makes his attitude in the second post really disgusting.

[@heidilynnm6522]

​@jimbobjones9330 I re-watched the video... it says she worked in the Industry for 13 years... that doesn't mean that she worked at that COMPANY for 13 years... And that still doesn't explain if she has "13 years of experience" or "1 year of experience 13 times" Truthfully these stories are all pretty one sided and we will never no what the facts are... but I'm sure we have all worked with people (some of them evern our "Bosses") that are incompetent regardless of education. So this could be that the woman is getting the short end of things or it could be that she is getting no more then what she deserves, we will never know. But the post wasn't about that, it was asking if he should have told her what his pay was. Personally, unless it's someone who shares the obligations to pay my bills I don't believe anyone needs to know what I make.

[@mikeremski2102]

My experience is sharing salaries is not the problem, it's more "people getting upset at salary differentials without understanding why". Like everything else in work, shouldn't be a problem with asking, but if someone says "no, I'm not sharing mine" accept the no gracefully.

[@faeriefire78]

Advocating for himself and strategizing raise requests doesn't work as an excuse if he was hired on making more money than her from the jump. It is what it is, no use pretending otherwise. Also, it's kind of rigid and ungracious of OP to "keep his distance" from her when she acknowledged that she crossed his boundary and apologized. Not like she peed in his coffee, jeez.

[@Boe-Temeraire]

If I said something so ignorant to my hypothetical kids hypothetical partner I would really hope they make fun of me for it because I would deserve it.

[@slantos2668]

Am a professional woman, the first couple times as a professional with an MSc i asked fir a raise, i was punished in different ways. Its mysogyny, not your amazing negotiation skills. Now im a high paid consultant, in a niche field, but still get paid less than other men who know less.

[@TraceyBoyland]

Last story: I was thinking that the mom and aunt were kind of masculine.

[@jeyzeus]

Exactly, they are all they shouldn't be according to her bf.

[@mbyerly9680]

No. The BF was. They obviously have his balls in their purses.

[@maurer3d]

Story 1: NTA, you salary is none of anyone else's business. That said your company is an AH if she has the same job but more qualifications and experience,

[@aduckwithanumbrella]

Story 1: Op stated his salary currency was £ and yet people kept responding as if he was American?

[@ajjean2720]

No, it’s more like they compared the practice of not discussing salaries to other coworkers to the American work experience. They were explaining that what happens in the US workforce could also be happening to him even if he’s not American.

[@quietlyours]

Love how this guy is suppose to potentially sacrifice his pay and career for some random woman he barely knows. Just so some dogooders can feel better about themselves.

[@alenasenie6928]

Story 1: I was in a similar situation, a coworker asked me aboit my salary because he was asking for a raise, I was completely transparent immediately, he was making about 2/3 what I was, same job, same responsibilities, we began at the exact same day and I never negotiated anything, it was so unfair, especially because they denied him a pay increase, he found anothet job. And about the gender, it is not a reason, in this case we are both male, sometimes it just comes to random luck. But he should have disclosed the amount, if negotiation is what he blames for the salary difference then giving her the information would give her negotiation power.

[@nilianstroy]

story 2... "i'm sorry for making fun of you not knowing something you could have learnt with a 2 minutes google search, i thought you were being sarcastic that's why i played along." that would have been rude, and justified...

[@Zerohero_007]

I wouldn’t share, coworkers will backstab you and rat you out. Sucks for her, but you need to take care of yourself.

[@ajzephyros7454]

Apartheid was around until like early 1990's how can you *_NOT_* know this ETA: I love that after Markee encountered Chagrin in a story he's fallen in love with the word

[@drako8343]

Not everyone cares about international politics.

[@tanyavandermerwe8330]

It ended in 1994 and since then our country have gone to absolute shit because of the ruling party.

[@Takisan111]

My first time hearing about South Africa was from one of the Lethal Weapon movies. One of my current favorite Minecraft youtubers is South African. There is so much information you can find about other countries even casually. OPs boyfriends family are intentionally being stupid and ignorant. We aren't alone in the world anymore. We can connect with so many people from so many different places and cultures even on accident.

[@CitizenRule]

Story 1. It's funny listening to this KZbinr lecture OP about "fair pay". How many Redditors has Markee paid for using their writing in his videos? I'm going to guess, zero.

[@kayemckeeth2301]

OP 1 is so wrong. One of my old jobs would do small promotions and every time it happened, they would always forget they "promoted" me, but the fellas in my company never seemed to have this issue. Of course I always brought it up and eventually got compensated but it was frustrating 💀 I feel bad for Sarah. She should take her experience elsewhere and get compensated since this job won't do it.

[@medusawitchful]

It is not his job to share. She should bring it up herself😂 why other women seem to expect for handout? As woman, I always do for my best interest, I never wait men to give me the way. Ugh

[@eveliinahannele]

​​@@medusawitchfulhow do you know she hasn't brought it up herself? How can she negotiate if she doesn't have any leverage?

[@himigimi]

⁠@@medusawitchful why is op asking for a handout via a raise? If you want to be a coffee maid for ppl who don’t respect you go right ahead but don’t drag everyone down with you

[@beebee0417]

His salary is his business! I wouldn't share that information either, it's everyone's choice to do this or not!!

[@Marstic666]

Sarah can’t negotiate if she thinks she’s being paid fair. OP is the classic “climb the corporate ladder and smash the rungs as he goes” type.

[@weltschmertzz]

Story 1: OP is an AH for automatically assuming coworker didn't advocate for herself. Me and my colleagues share salary information as this gives a better information when considering transferring companies and negotiating with our comapnies the current going rates for x amount of work or work quality.

[@hvymax]

It's absolutely improper to discuss pay at work.

[@heatherdickau5335]

Syory 1 Everyone on reddit agrees with "don't share personal finance with family and friends." But want you to share your finances with a coworker? Someone with no personal stake in your life and could sabotage your career? If she thinks she is not being paid enough, she needs to ask for more money or find a better job. It sounds like he is just better at knowing when to ask and how to ask. She might have more experience, but that doesn't mean she is better at the job. Since no additional information was given to the kind of industry, it is hard to judge.

[@Stormdraka]

Who is everyone on reddit? I know you're just generalizing but it's the first time I hear of this. And how should she know she is not being paid enough if she doesn't know the average salary among her coworkers? Which is why this should be a transparent thing. There are a LOT of good reasons this kind of thing should be transparent as people have mentioned already, but every time someone tries to defend it not being it's always some "but myself!!!" kind of argument.

[@phoenix72999]

By the way, being better at asking for money also doesn't mean being better at the job. Just being better at getting paid for your work. Low key ridiculous that that is a thing if you ask me. With the concept of "meritocracy" and "hard work" and all. But whatever. I guess companies can also pay people based on who sells themselves the best and has the biggest ego instead.

[@michellekeith5602]

Story 1. NTA. How does anyone know what the reasons are for the pay difference? Maybe she has a contract that she signed up on the start of the job. People nowadays expect far too much and judge far too quickly about things that are solely in their own hands. If the coworker gets paid less then coworker needs to know her value and speak up. How is it OPs fault that miss equal opportunity can't say hey where's my money? This culture of my life isn't what I think I deserve so you should stop what you're doing and go find ways to make me happy although I won't do anything to improve my own life . Get over yourselves . You want something YOU get it because YOU are the one living your life and that means wait for it..... You are responsible for your own happiness. NOONE else is obligated to paint your world happy. The entitlement and gaslight mentality is destroying neurons everywhere

[@danielmarek4609]

While I just retired and no longer work an employee’s pay is based on many things. Mainly it’s based on what you can do for your employer, how valuable are you to them. Education plays a part but a masters degree isn’t always going to guarantee you’ll make more. Also every employer will try paying all employees as little as they can get away with. Every employee has the ability to get another job elsewhere if they feel undervalued where they currently work.

[@AvyFerg]

People are turning this into pure sexism. He started after her when starting salaries fluctuate over time. But as for his raises, we cant ignore the fact that women are less likely to ask for raises. So in the abstract, yes, gender is a big part of it. Just not the way people are claiming. This isn't old school cut and dry sexism.

[@chipanndale1468]

Vice Media did a study a few years ago. Examining the "gender pay gap". They choose nursing , a S.T.E.M. field that is dominated by woman at every level, including management. Which is also highly unionized, which standardizes pay regardless of gender. Male nurses still made more on average, they wanted to find out why. The results.... Men were more aggressive in the pursuit of promotions, more likely to relocate in pursuit of a promotion, more likely to take less desirable shifts, work stat holidays, if it pays a better rate...etc.

[@sunshinedrop158]

I don’t want any of my colleagues knowing my salary. It would make me uncomfortable whether they make more or less than me. It’s none of their business.

[@philtherealdeal100]

It’s true women tend to not negotiate when getting hired… both my sister and I are nurses for the same company… I negotiated at my hiring… she didn’t… I told her too every time at the employee consultations… she makes more than me now lol

[@owenllewellyn1428]

Don't think it's a gender thing as much as newer employees get more money

[@jay2thaudy]

Gender ABSOLUTELY plays a role but he's right about negotiating.

[@angelaa7388]

I don't think he needs to share the numbers but he should advise her to fight for better pay like he did. Give her a rub down of how those pay raises were achieved. Then she can try it out, and if the employer disrespects her she can move on. Edit to add: it is absolutely a gender thing though, because her gender has influenced her idea of self-worth and instilled her with social conditioning to not be difficult.

[@jamescarlson2587]

Story 1 NTA at the end of the day you have to look after yourself, and others have to do the same for themselves. It's insane to say OP is responsible for the coworker in anyway.

[@chickensandwich8808]

He's not responsible by obligation, but this exact take is part lf the problem. This is also why Unions are so necessary. Paying the dues can and does suck and they are not perfect, but collectively bargaining creates a sense of solidarity amongst workers instead of the dog eat dog that ends up becoming a zero sum game. If we want the world to be better we have to make that effort. Of you don't want to be the change you want to see then don't cry abkut it when no one cares about you.

[@jamescarlson2587]

@chickensandwich8808 idk where you live but the unions in my state are consistently keep wages low to placate contractors. The union apprentice electricians in my state make less than McDonald's worker, before dues. I'm all for unions, but they do not always look out for the people they represent, and have been caught embezzling on so many occasions pensions basically no longer exist.

[@mztweety1374]

It feels lke OP knows how to play the salary negotiation game better.. know your real worth and be ready to take a better offer at another company🤷🏿‍♀️

[@kanelovec4315]

Technically I don't think it's gender. Where i am from if they can find someone who is will to take a lower pay they going to let it. You have to be like op and haggle plus threaten to leave. Knew someone who work a almost 3 years and knew new hires was given more because they said they had another job they were looking at that paid better. She tried to get a increase pay but never left for another year. Until she was just done when another worker just said they were going to quite but lied about a better paying job and she just quiet after that. They knew she wasn't going to fight them.

[@poetryqn]

Story 2: I'm with the commenter who said a thermos was a small price to pay for not getting stuck with her pathetic boyfriend. Glad she has a shiny spine! I was cheering as she walked out and called an uber.

[@DragonflyandTheWolf]

Regardless of whether you have the right to talk about salary or not in your country, you also should have the right NOT to talk about it. Although I do think OP is being a little naive thinking that his stellar negotiation skills are the reason he gets paid more. Yes, that COULD be the reason why he gets paid more, but it could also be both. What would happen if she tried to negotiate? What if she ALREADY tried to negotiate? He only knows what he did and what worked. Its possible she already tried, and they told her, which led to her asking him about his salary to try and see if whatever bs reason they gave her for not raising her salary was sincere.

[@pinkgoblin5815]

S2: NTA. Rich of them to be offended by OP’s comment after being ignorant af!!! I stand on this tho; people of color, people from foreign countries, etc., shouldn’t have to do the mental labor of educating these ignorant people. Google is free. The library is free. Heck KZbin IS FREE!! Being ignorant in this day and age is a choice. It’s pathetic.

[@anthonyburke5656]

S1, NTA, BUT, first, get rid of your gf, she is more interested in “political correctness” than you, and, second, strat looking for another job.

[@TheFlyontheWall]

Interesting seeing how many don't know with jobs where you successfully negotiate your salary can have a significant impact.

[@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64]

OP must be willfully blind to not see the sexism dripping from the company he’s working for. In what plane of reality is it in any way acceptable that he earns significantly more than his coworker that: a) has worked there for more than a decade b) has a higher degree than him Like that one comment said, things are good for him so why make a big deal about it?

[@hiddensquid335]

It is not acceptable. Op did not force her to stay at that position at that rate. It’s not up to OP to tell her that she is being done wrong, would be kind of him to do so. I started out majorly underpaid in my industry so I took an awful position with awful hours.(overnight 6 day weeks at 60ish hours) worked until I gained enough experience to try and negotiate a raise, got denied so jumped to another company within 3 years. If she stayed there getting no raises for so long they’ll assume she is happy with that pay rate.

[@Burglar-King]

Just tell her to negotiate a wage if she feels she’s not earning her worth. That’s all op needed to do.

[@dorianleakey]

Story 2 doesnt make sense, they claim they made stereotypical comments about south africa, then repeat a comment about them being white and that being strange. Its a very odd story.

[@jeyzeus]

Which part of this is strange? They (mom and aunt) made bunch of stereotypical comments about S.A. and one of them being that they didn't know that white people (OP being one of them) exist in S.A., which do exist. Which of this is strange?

[@dorianleakey]

@jeyzeus you just said the bit that's strange, it's known stereotypically for being a country that was run by white colonisers, that's it's stereotype that it is 100% stereotyped about. There is no other stereotype. Why are you acting like something else could be the stereotype?

[@dorianleakey]

I reread your comment and you stated the opposite of it's stereotype as being it's stereotype. This is clearly written by someone young who recently found out about South Africa's past, because it's much more well known amongst older people, especially the age of the characters of the mother and aunt in the story. Even the idea they said lots of things then they could only be bothered to make up one stereotype that is not even a stereotype. Insane. Plus the weird accent that doesn't sound British. It's going to turn out to be a weird race thing. Likely an update will make the boyfriend and family black so they can be the real ill informed bigots.

[@dianedupree-dempsey2402]

Gender does play a role since women are taught differently than men regular advocating for themselves.

[@hiro4344]

Story two: OP's Ex apparently never heard of the stereotypical Italian/Korean/Vietnamese wife. I might not mean Vietnamese but the county is slipping my mind atm with the stereotypical Outspoken bossy matriarchal wives. But yeah my dad used to travel to different parishes around the US to give talks and when he went to one in a primarily Vietnamese (Or whatever it was I can't remember) area the women were the ones in charge ordering their husbands around to help him set up for the talk he would give and other preparations.

[@SpaceJunk07]

I don’t believe updates when OP was called an asshole in the initial post but everyone apologizes to them anyway

[@hoper1294]

No I dont thing the OPis the AH. It's a work collegue. Not a life long partner. It's no one's business how much you make unless you are looking for a higher paying job or discussing your future with your partner. And OF COURSE people are pointing towards sexism. Stop pulling the gender card like people pulling the race card.

[@KE-hr4sb]

S1: American here: I was told we were not allowed to discuss our salaries (which I later found out was illegal for them to claim). And I found out why: the pay varied wildly across the board. Basically, they were worried if it got out that they were paying Guy A 3 dollars more an hour than Girl A for the same work/job, that everyone in the store would demand equal pay as Guy A. But yes, it's bullshit, and I think OP was a bit of a coward, however, as an American, I can't really call him an AH as I don't know the rules over there. "Most of you saw reason. My gf also saw reason and she is paying for dinner to apologize." Yikes. I went from "You're a coward" to "Oh, so you didn't want opinions that differed from yours, you just wanted an echo chamber to confirm how right you think you are. You're an AH AND giving off manipulation/gaslighting vibes." "You need to google confirmation bias"? Yikes. Commenter was giving him information, and he just doubled down on being a dick. I hope Sarah leaves the company and he gets saddled with her responsibilities. They should never have offered her less than him, when she was WAY more qualified. And yes. I've seen women try to negotiate and get penalized for it. Girl A I mentioned above asked for equal pay, and was terminated. S2: NTA. His reaction (screaming at you, not letting you explain, refusing to talk to you) is alarming. Rethink this entire relationship. "Respect is very important in my family!" Respect is earned, not a right. They made insulting and ignorant assumptions. You made light of their ignorance. Honestly, I don't blame you. "I don't back down, admit when I'm wrong, or know when to stay silent." 1) You weren't wrong, and 2) wtf? Please, don't apologize. I don't care "how it looks for him." At no point did he defend YOU.

[@ArashiMasayume]

Oh yeah that OP with the salary story pissed me the heck off. I’m female and it absolutely is about gender. I’m so glad people were giving him grief in the comments because his update almost had me seeing red. Guys like him are totally part of the problem. You’re never going to see the downsides to a system that benefits you. Period.

[@ondank]

Story 1 : I got told by colleagues that I was being short changed on holiday days. I told them, thanks ill take it from there. I then collected info from other members of the team and spoke to my manager and said "I know I am being short changed on holiday days, I am extremely tempted to quit on the spot, but I will give you the chance to make it right" They fixed it immediately, and also fixed it for others they hasn't got round to yet. I understand that this is awkward, but its unkind to do nothing to help your colleague who is being literally scammed by the company. The crab mentality here is hindering everyone. OP saying "it's not about gender" as, presumably, a straight white man is hilarious. Studies have shown that a woman and a man who advocate for themselves the same way do not get perceived the same way. Men who advocate get viewed as confident or assertive. Women who do so get viewed as cold or nagging ect. "Negotiation" is not a neutral mathematical calculation.

[@hdeodh]

S1: It is common for there to be a pay gap between new and existing employees for the same role. That is a major reason employees move change jobs so often.

[@marrcei]

Story 2: Karen to Cady in mean girls : "if you're from Africa...why are you white 😮??"

[@QuayHollywood]

Just gotta say for story 1, though Op is a douche in how he comes off. No matter what the laws say, sharing your salary or wages is and should be up to personal discretion. If a person doesn't want to discuss it, then thats their choice, but don't pressure them to share.

[@vanzy01]

Talking about money in the workplace is the worst thing you could ever do.

[@PinkMarshmallows]

S1: The coworker has **NO RIGHT** to know OP's salary. NTA. That's just entitled behavior S2: OP's bf is a little 😺 bish. I'm glad OP dumped his a$$.

[@Goliath_mindset]

Agreed. My only thought is this: After the employer retaliates (and they will) and the Op is left jobless, how much do we wanna bet that gf wont support Op?

[@B1ack_1otus23]

Story 2: “will said his family is big on respect” could’ve fooled the hell outta me. Lol

[@robinronin]

S1: OP is a misogynist, what a surprise! Oh wait, no, it isn't, because they're everywhere and they're very comfortable with their viewpoint because it benefits them.

[@nyaatama8529]

🤣🤣🤣 I at a few different jobs was making more money quicker and caught up to my friend whom worked there 5 years before me and held a higher position. Was that because I was male or liked more? No. He was far more loved than I, the boss truly disliked me, but was fair on HER reports, yes she made a lot more😅. No, I came in everyday, bid for a promotion that got me more money, despite it only being a backup position. I then argued every time I did not get a raise with HR, which these women decided who got raises and when. I once asked him as he complained if he talked to HR about his raises... he said no and had no plans to. Your job does not want to give you more money, male or female. Some places will have gender bias, but not everything is about that

[@AnomalyXero]

Story 1: If you don’t want to talk about your salary, then don’t talk about your salary. All other information is irrelevant.

[@Adamskyize]

Story 1 If all salaries were made equal today, there would be more men than women trying to leverage a raise tomorrow, and more women than men accepting a pay cut for some greater good. The day after tomorrow more men than women would be unemployed, but employed men would make more money than women.

[@robertwinters4269]

Funny how this guy worked and ASKED for his raised. Did this lady? No. If you're not even willing or care enough to make your own effort then don't expect your colleagues or employers to care more than you do. IF she did do all of those things and is still getting paid less, then that has absolutely nothing to do with this guy and isn't on him.

[@chickensandwich8808]

While OP in story1 is probably great with timing and negotiation to flatput say "this isnt at all about gender" shows that blind spot. Whike yes i am certain his ability is a key factor here, to putright dismiss the biases and systemic perspectives regarding women in the workforce vs. Men... its showing a lack of awareness there. That said, the GF weaponizing that or using that information as a cudgel rather than a way to properly educate is also very much an issue. I get that sounds like in trying to "tone police" or what not. And honestly people can respond however they want, but when the numbers show that the approach isnt working, when is it time to re-evaluate said approach? Recognizing that these are blind spots and not active malice/misogyny is increadobly important rhetorical knowledge on how to aid in deconstruction. Its a delicate process. Its where the "yes and" method withib improv theater is huge here.

[@jonmendelson1104]

13:55 "I thought Bangladesh was a hockey team." You actually made me google on this, though not because I didn't know it was a country. I remembered reading a headline but not digging into the article a couple of months back about two countries becoming members of the IIHF, that they weren't countries you generally think of playing ice hockey, and that one of them started with the letter 'b.' It turns out it was Bahrain and Kenya.

[@lkayh]

How the hell would OP know why another employee is paid less than he is? What an ego!

[@namayra299]

People who are more favoured never want to admit it. They always try to cry merit when that was never the basis for them getting what they have.

[@vlastelinprislic286]

Or it was merit... You are making assumptions based on what exactly?