So You Think You Know Git - FOSDEM 2024

[@sandeepparmar3113]

The excitement level of this guy is priceless. Imagine working with him in a team!

[@homeofcreation]

You'd skip all the breaks.

[@nlovelldev]

Timestamps for dorks: 00:00 - Introduction 01:06 - About Me (well, Scott Chacon) 02:36 - How Well Do You Know Git? 05:09 - Our Agenda 06:25 - Some Helpful Config Stuff 09:42 - Oldies But Goodies 16:22 - Some New Stuff (You May Not Have Noticed) 23:48 - Some Big Repo Stuff / Monorepo Stuff 33:29 - Some New Github Stuff 35:54 - GitButler 36:50 - End of talk 37:03 - Start of Q&A Session 37:06 - Q: Why does GitHub not do git range diff? 38:28 - Q: Why do submodules suck everywhere? 40:16 - Q: With SSH signing, is it possible to specify more than one key? 40:42 - Q: Why can't --force-with-lease be the default force? 42:33 - Q: If you were back on the Git development team, what direction would you like to see it move in? 44:58 - Q: We all love the Git CLI - but do you ever use any visual tools? 46:41 - That's all folks!-

[@gitbutlerapp]

Awesome! We're stealing this and updating the description. Thanks for the hard work!

[@Arrow_7s]

@@gitbutlerappthe sarcasm lmao

[@Little-bird-told-me]

You are real MVP

[@TheRealZitroX]

@@gitbutlerapphow to save work :) xD

[@neoesm]

can you pin this comment? @@gitbutlerapp

[@NEDinACTION]

I know I don't know git, that's why whenever I have to do something new I research it for 30 minutes and then make a script so I don't have to do that again. Mad respect to all y'all who somehow find the time to master git and all the other devops wizardry on top of learning your language of choice.

[@w花b]

If someone has the confidence to say they know git, I'd be scared of them. They're too powerful

[@mr.mister311]

I think for a lot of people it's less about time and more about version control being this necessary evil we have to deal with when really we just want to write code. I'll spend hours learning programming languages that I'm never going to actually use instead of spending that time reading a manual on the version control that I use every day. I'm currently trying to convince myself that it is one of those things that are more fun once you actually know it.

[@autohmae]

@@w花b or lying to themselves.

[@gitbutlerapp]

Try out GitButler, maybe it's a nice compromise. :)

[@mangalegends]

I have found my people ​@@mr.mister311

[@sammcj2000]

Great talk, I really appreciate the "shotgun" style presentation - it cuts the crap while keeping it clear.

[@MHLuttekes]

I don't know if it's ADHD, but my brain goes so well on this type of content where normally I struggle to follow presentations.

[@dittoford]

@@MHLuttekesI struggle with this too, my guess is because these style of presentation just keeps bombarding you with information so you’re more inclined to stay focused. Whereas usual presentation are sprinkled with useless fluff that makes you “turn off” your brain for a while and “turn on” again when the important bits were presented

[@keyd33]

I also like he goes directly to the point instead of talking during 10 minutes with an history about versioning systems...

[@BJ-bd5fc]

It's better to watch it later (vs. live). I have to pause the video, take notes, and think about how it would apply to my job if I want the info to stick. This is a great presentation, though. There is zero fat here.

[@donutsleader]

The talk is great, but the manner of it being presented is even better!

[@aleattorium]

Suggestion: add chapters (timestamps) to this video. It really helps when you're watching for the second time!

[@billionai4871]

If someone adds the chapters as a comment, I think youtube might catch them automagically

[@nlovelldev]

ask and ye shall receive. timestamps up above (or below... or wherever my comment ended up floating to.)

[@MohitKhare]

@@nlovelldev Already your FAN brother or sister or whoever you are. 😊♥

[@parp]

@@nlovelldev tysm x

[@JoshuaRose-hm3xq]

or the third ✋

[@TheMasonX23]

So excited to share this with my boss Mike, he's our local Git wizard and I'm so thankful for him. He's always so excited to share the new things he's learned and I'm looking forward to paying it forward!

[@ronminnich]

Thanks for the book. It saved my neck in 2011. Every intern I've had since 2012, on their first day, I give them the book and ask them to read it all, and do all the exercises. I give them paper so they can mark it up as needed. Every intern that does this, has no issues with git all summer. The one or two interns that did not do the exercises? They struggle. Great book!

[@ghos7bear]

I haven't watched the video yet but it would be useful if you'd put book's name into your comment so people can look it up right away.

[@MichaelLohmann-up9ux]

@@ghos7bear It is the "Pro Git" book you can find for free with a search engin of your choice

[@ronminnich]

Pro Git 2nd ed. Edition by Scott Chacon -- just do every exercise and try every command, even if it's boring or you have done it before. That's what we learned over 10y of interns.

[@getyournekoshere9824]

lmfao, you ask every intern to read a 500 page book for a summer internship? try not to respond with: "yeah I work at a super awesome place and im so smart, try putting a little more work in kiddo, pull up your bootstraps etc etc"

[@Spelaren7254]

@@ronminnichhope you at least pay them for that lmao seems like a shitty workplace ngl. I have never had any problems with git and I didn’t get forced to read a 500 page book. If I wonder something I’ll just google it. Takes 3s

[@MaikDiepenbroek]

Next to being an informative talk, the way it's presented is great. Good job on that presentation skills!

[@MelroyvandenBerg]

10 out of 10

[@coder2k]

Didn't know that guy before, immediately caught fire because of his excitement, bought his book after the first 10 minutes. Great talk!

[@cybrflash]

`git blame -C -C -C` is pure gold. But wait, there's more! From `GIT-BLAME(1)` -C[] In addition to -M, detect lines moved or copied from other files that were modified in the same commit. This is useful when you reorganize your program and move code around across files. When this option is given twice, the command additionally looks for copies from other files in the commit that creates the file. When this option is given three times, the command additionally looks for copies from other files in any commit. is optional but it is the lower bound on the number of alphanumeric characters that Git must detect as moving/copying between files for it to associate those lines with the parent commit. And the default value is 40. If there are more than one -C options given, the argument of the last -C will take effect.

[@gitbutlerapp]

If anyone has any questions or suggestions for the next version of this talk, we would love to hear them!

[@ivanbessarabov690]

More about CRDT stuff :)

[@iflux8821]

Close the cameraman in a closet before next talk.

[@iflux8821]

On a serious note, stacked PRs could be a nice topic.

[@gitbutlerapp]

@@ivanbessarabov690 interesting, we could do more on that. :)

[@antoy384]

I’m at half and you haven’t made a demo of *git-bisect* with a 300GB repository yet ;)

[@JoseSilva-gt6zj]

Time 8:13 - Setting or defining work and oss (open source software) directories. Thank you, Scott!

[@worldadmin9811]

Really excellent talk. Incredible pacing, funny, and lots to learn for folks at every level.

[@carlogilmarp.s.16]

Scott Chacon is a legend! I learned git in 2016, and I love it, it's one of the most important tools for me, after start my journey as a developer, I start to teach git, and the best resource always was the Pro Git book.

[@Raykazen]

"fucking nerds...". Golden

[@linonator]

😂 family looked at me weird laughing my butt off

[@Beryesa.]

Indeed xd

[@ss4yaasir524]

Honestly, I find using it via the terminal much simpler lol

[@IllIIIIIIllll]

hahaha what a joke hahaha😲

[@MaazKhan-lw6kz]

My favorite part 😂✨

[@pavellaptev2993]

Fantastic speech! Thank you, Scott. So many cool things about Git.

[@lucvaroqui2754]

I was there, great talk! Made me discover GirButler, super promising!!

[@gitbutlerapp]

I'm impressed you made the cut. I saw them ushering a hundred people out :)

[@jasonhenson7948]

Those packed aisles would have been a fire warden's nightmare.

[@gitbutlerapp]

@@jasonhenson7948 They kicked everyone out who did not have a seat before the talk started. We were sad, but the fire warden would have remained happy.

[@lpanebr]

10:59 that -L to blame and log is awesome!

[@nceevij]

This talk is great it felt I knew nothing of Github. But it was super fast delivery before my mind , eyes, and ears can align together and comprehend anything out of it

[@hansvandenbogert8992]

just pluggin git butler shortly, well done! Real-world git goodies, love it.

[@samuelcasimiro]

Wow. What a great presentation. Thank you very much.

[@MikkoRantalainen]

46:30 I've been using Git for a long time and I use git gui for building my commit because I always commit lines of code, not full files. And I also use gitk for reviewing history of the code unless I'm looking for some highly specific thing that gitk doesn't support well - for those cases it's mostly `git log -p -​ - optional/path/limit` and grepping the results if needed. (The dashes should obviously be combined without a space but KZbin comment interface cannot display that string correctly.)

[@QuantumCanvas07]

For beginners who feel like god after knowing some git push command, this is a great humbling video for you.

[@sharkbelly1169]

Thanks for a great talk. Gonna be using git column all the time XD

[@traal]

Best use for GUI Git has to be staging and unstaging parts of a file. In VS Code, just select some lines in the diff view and right-click. Stage selection and unstage selection. Amazing! 😊

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

you can do this in the terminal with `git add -p` - albeit not as elegantly when you want to break up a block of changes

[@WhileTrueCode]

committing to multiple branches is brilliant! its always a PITA to notice/fix a core bug when working on a feature branch.. stash->checkout->pop->commit->checkout->merge is so much overhead for what started as a 5-second one liner fix.

[@DrGreenGiant]

Excellent talk! After many years on KZbin this made me create a new playlist of videos I need to rewatch regularly. The bar has been set pretty high!

[@dorianligthart3378]

I wish you could search up, not based on the title, but on the frequency of words in the transcript of a video.

[@chaysesmith1873]

I was kinda hoping he would talk about git worktrees, I use those to checkout branches into separate file paths on my computer which allows me to work in different branches simultaneously. And I can keep long-lived branches separate. This also integrates really well with vscode workspaces.

[@vibovitold]

frankly i have an old habit of sidestepping Git completely for that, i simply checkout the repo into two independent copies and i switch between those : )

[@jasonhenson7948]

Virtual branches are an amazing feature. There are so many times I've been working on a branch and seen a minor fix in a file unrelated to my work. Streamlining those fixes while keeping them separate from my branches is very efficient for everyone.

[@tarreislam]

Stash?!

[@MadMathMike]

Fantastic presentation!

[@kipchickensout]

I loved your "Ask your code" talk back at Code.Talks and I love this one even more! Holy shit that git butler idea is great, I've always wanted to work on several branches intermittently

[@monawoka97]

I have never once thought I know git.

[@jj18]

me neither. I just use the basics and pray nothing goes wrong.

[@dennispagano10]

Appreciated the Sneakers reference.

[@MelroyvandenBerg]

Youre a great speaker!

[@gitbutlerapp]

Thanks!

[@MelroyvandenBerg]

@@gitbutlerappYou did had a typo at least once ;P It's `git maintenance start` not maintainance. But I forgive you.

[@jimmorrison2657]

Remember when version control used to be simple? When it didn't need to be wrapped in huge frameworks so that people could work with it? When it didn't need conferences like this? When it wasn't the main topic of conversation on a project, and we just did the project?

[@rebeccakeller4666]

Yes I do. And source control back then wasn't a tool the way git is. Like, also,git is awful in many ways, but I still love it deeply for the things it lets me do, manipulate and interrogate my repo history in many useful ways. It lets me approach certain problem classes in a meta way that old source control just could not. Branching is a first class citizen in git and that was not the case inb4. Learning git is a brick wall, as an early adopter I had the difficulty of explaining git many times to many companies, simple things are often stupid, and git basically requires you to learn it's mental model pretty well before you can do basic things with confidence. Then again, idk, sql doesn't make much sense unless you know what a relational database is. So git is hard in dumb ways, and if anything ever replaces it the way git ate svn, then I can't wait to drop git over whatever that future better system is, but it doesn't seem to exist, so I'm on the whole far far happier with git, warts and all, then any prior system. CVS wasn't even atomic, and vss would corrupt itself, svn really couldn't do branches and merge conflicts ruined your working copy in unrecoverable ways, and git is so so fast, and also best case was you could do exactly one local commit effectively where git you can do infinity local commits and also peer to peer stuff. Evolution of source control systems has been a net positive

[@jimmorrison2657]

@@rebeccakeller4666 Hi Rebecca. I could write a similar passage about how bad it is, but I won't bother. I will just say one thing; it is too difficult, and any good software should be easy. Yes, it can be learned, and when you have learned it, it is ok. But it shouldn't take so long to learn. I have been using Git for the last 10 years, so I feel like know it fairly in depth, but it took me about two years to get to this level. Why? You can of course take the easy way out at this point and just say I must be stupid, but I will assume you won't do that. It took me just a few weeks to get to a similar level with CVS, SVN, Clearcase etc. Now I know Git, but I have to work on projects with more junior people who are currently going through the same hell I went through. While they are learning, they make a lot of mistakes and people have to spend their time trying to fix them. The old systems, which would have improved a lot by now, were much better because they were simple and just worked. Anyway, I am glad you like it. Each to their own.

[@vibovitold]

Yes, I remember SVN. It was simpler, but it came at a cost. For example working with branches was very clunky and inconvenient.

[@jimmorrison2657]

@@vibovitold Creating branches was just as easy as it is with Git. But you didn't need to make a new branch for everything. If it was a simple fix, you just checked out the code, did the fix, and checked it back in again, via a review if needed. I know I'm flogging a dead horse here, but Git is a huge step backwards.

[@vibovitold]

@@jimmorrison2657 creating, kind of. merging, now that's not how i remember it at all.: ) and i'm not a fanboy of Git. it is poorly designed especially in terms of API - commands are poorly named etc. but this actually emphasizes the question - if it beated all the competition DESPITE those blatant flaws... why did it happen in the first place? what's your theory

[@MHLuttekes]

"Raise your hand if you never used anything other than Git" ... BRB feeling old.

[@gitbutlerapp]

Tell me about it.

[@MHLuttekes]

@@gitbutlerapp 2x three letters: SVN, and FTP. 🥳

[@berkes]

I feel actual anxiety when I recall the days of CVS and SVN. Man, those were horrible.

[@kevincozens6837]

I still use RCS for personal projects involving a single file. For multi-file projects that I'm not making available publicly I'm more likely to use SVN . I started using git only because I was working on some Open Source Projects that used it. I don't like git that much. It is the only VCS that has resulted in me losing some work I had done but not commmited.

[@LA-MJ]

Svn and mercurial, thanks to mozilla

[@JunepilLee]

I realy love the pro git book and Im so happy that I found this vid 😊

[@hisuomi]

Hi, thanks for the session. FYI, you have a typo at 22:28

[@JackEnneking]

Namely `git maintainance` should be `git maintenance`.

[@acrophile8]

Found this fun and informative... love the Sneakers reference too.

[@PinkPandaKatie]

43:10 - Working on multiple branches at the same time / multiple indexes, heads: Isn't that what `git worktree` does? I use it quite a bit, especially if I need to make a change to one branch while I have a bunch of other uncommitted changes in my main working tree. I also use submodules - I have a lot of 3D printing projects using OpenSCAD, and I've developed a common library of functions / transformations / etc. Since OpenSCAD doesn't have a package management / dependency system like Python or NPM, I just add my common library as a submodule to each individual project.

[@webknjaz]

Wow, what a great talk! I'll add it to my collection of Git learning materials!

[@MJ-xg2ow]

Git learning material???? REALLY? Aren't they more important things to learn in the whole world of IT????? LMAO

[@webknjaz]

@@MJ-xg2ow there are many important things. But being dumb and unable to use major everyday tools is not the solution.

[@MJ-xg2ow]

"Unable" to use major tools??? Wasting time to use git blame in cmd line to look cool while it's a click away is being Unable to learn everyday tool? I can't live without cmd myself but this is not the type of stuff one use cmd line to make their life easier....

[@webknjaz]

@@MJ-xg2ow if it's available in your editor, it's fine. Some features are indeed more useful when visualized. But this doesn't mean that knowing fundamentals is useless.

[@arhontra]

Great lecture. Could you please share what command you used at 7:50 as bb alias to print this nice version of the branches

[@CrtTsai]

I enjoy this talk. Thank you.

[@leonasdev]

Waht a great talk. I have same frustrating about that part of git does not record all the shit for me.

[@mrjvc]

Great talk! So many new gems to add to my workflow

[@wardsuleiman1640]

Working on multiple branches can be achieved to a certain extent by using worktree command. It will give you the ability to have multiple worktrees pointing to different branches، and the ability to switch between them while keeping the changes. It isn't the easiest to use, but better then nothing.

[@KarlOlofsson]

I do a lot of code review and have been saved by reflog more than I care to admit 😅

[@KarlOlofsson]

I jump between branches a lot and sometimes mix up where I should commit or reset lol.

[@HtotheG]

My friend's company is switching from SVN to Git after decades and the one piece of advice I told them was the reflog will save you from almost anything!

[@KarlOlofsson]

@@HtotheG I use stash a lot as well, can't be bothered to commit wip stuff all the time lol

[@Gersberms]

This is the first time I heard of porcelain commands. A quick google and... it makes sense! Part of most software is plumbing that has to work, but is ugly, and not everyday user-facing code. The nice user-interfacing stuff is porcelain.

[@aaronr.9644]

I didn't know about range diff. I do the same thing manually because I didn't realise there was a tool for that :)

[@GeFrItroger]

You are hilarious!!!!!! In the positive way !!!!

[@thislooksfun1]

At 43:04 you said you'd like to be able to work on more than one branch at a time. What are your thoughts on git worktrees?

[@gitbutlerapp]

they're fine, but they're not together. "at the same time" meaning with both branches applied to the same directory. like being merged but still being able to work on them independently. this is what we do with GitButler with virtual branches.

[@lerneninverschiedenenforme7513]

looking forward to gitbutler. awesome talk!!

[@T1Oracle]

I know ~30% of git. So not bad after seeing that chart! 😊 --force-with-lease should be --try-force

[@jlhjlh]

"my voice is my passport, verify me" -- I love the reference! :D

[@movax20h]

Hehe. Starting to watch the video. I am using git for 15 years (and before that hg, perforce, svn, cvs), and I would say I do not know git even on the surface. I know more about git in my company than anybody else probably, but I still would say I do not know git. And I do not want to know it.

[@gitbutlerapp]

I know we're doing a git client, but I do have to say that git is amazing :)

[@AV-dk7pf]

Same here plus sourcesafe, clearcase and tfs. Used hg for many years, wrote many extensions for it, even up-streamed some fixes in the early days when windows support was shaky. Git is the best by far.

[@adrianroldan8864]

Great talk, I really enjoyed. I was wondering if the virtual branch is something different to what you can achieve with `git worktree add ` ? Amazing, helpful talk. Thanks

[@gitbutlerapp]

It is for the same problem, but an important difference. Worktrees give you a different working directory per branch, so if you have a feature and a bugfix, you don't have anywhere where you have _both_ the feature and the bugfix in one direcotry at the same time. With GitButler you do them both in the same directory and make branches from the hunks as though you were `git add -i` each hunk and committing. In other words, we keep the work of the two branches separated in memory rather than on disk. This is very nice if you want to see how branches will work together before they're technically merged in git.

[@adrianroldan8864]

@@gitbutlerapp thank you for the explanation. It makes sense and it's an awesome feature to have.

[@Raykazen]

What a great talk. Thanks :)

[@captainchaos3667]

20:40 - Sneakers - great movie!

[@dc0d]

Awesome talk! But I was looking forward to hear about "git worktree" too.

[@Synthetica9]

Whoah that virtual branch stuff is exactly what I was looking for I expected you needed something like Pijul for that

[@hansvandenbogert8992]

the GUI vs CLI debate, I never think about that anymore since I started using Magit.

[@codeman99-dev]

I love the interactive add mention - seriously one of the three things I use `tig` for.

[@KellyClowers]

only thing I know for sure that was added recently was more a change, the default from 'master' to 'main' (about time!)

[@sebbe4717]

WHAT IS THAT SOUNDTRACK IN THE BEGINNING?

[@charlesbenca5357]

really an amazing speech. thanks

[@fametheshit]

Very nice talk, I like his energy on the topic we all use all day! Is there any source for the intro song?

[@jesperjuhl6494]

Really nice talk. Thanks :)

[@nayaleezy]

Because a piece of software is bloated doesn't mean I need to bloat my mind with it's bloat

[@artysanmobile]

This is too nerd even for me, but I’m really glad they all exist.

[@aram5642]

Had I beenin the audience, I would have asked this: I am a rebase guy, I organically hate merging master/main into my feature branch. This strategy works great as long as I work on a solo project. The moment a conversation starts and comments/requests to your changes land in, the problem kicks in. When you rebase to refresh your master/main, then git push force, the comments usually get misplaced, the refs shift, and, most of all, your reviewers lose track of what has been changed since their last visit. Is there a golden solution to that?

[@gitbutlerapp]

Nope. Unfortunately the best way to preserve history is by not rewriting it. You could squash merge so the whole branch becomes a single merge and try to incorporate comments as commit data, but otherwise it's quite difficult unless you just merge.

[@aram5642]

@@gitbutlerapp Thanks for your reply. I'm at least glad I'm not overlooking anything and it's just the way it is. I hoped though, there was a piece of AI that was able to bind the overwritten history with comments ;-)

[@Duiker36]

Rebasing is better for going main->feature, and merge is better for going feature->main. The more authors are contributing to a branch, the less you want to rebase it, and the better an explicit merge commit is for tracking. IMO.

[@LA-MJ]

I do rebase -i for clean history all the time. Only rebase unpushed stuff. Problem solved 🤓

[@aram5642]

@@LA-MJ Here is the problem. If someone during PR asks you for changes then you cannot really git rebase -i anymore and group the changes with the commits where they belong. So no, the problem is not solved, your history is only neat until the original commits have been pushed, all that follows is still a mess.

[@MichalMracka]

18:45 git push --force vs git push --force-with-lease Any idea, why the safer commands are not the default and longer to type on top of that...?

[@yodal_]

The longer one is newer. You don't want force (either version) to be the default out of the box, but also you can't replace the old behavior without breaking people's old workflows. Edit: 40:42

[@gitbutlerapp]

Yeah, Scott addressed this in the Q&A: you can't be backwards incompatible in Git easily and that's a good thing. Best to do is set up an alias, which is why he started the talk that way. :)

[@harisonfekadu]

Awesome intro 👏

[@NyanCoder]

I don't think I know Git. I just have enough knowledge to use it at a level that fulfills my needs

[@prafull_chavan]

Thanks for the talk, many new things. I will try to incorporate some of them in my projects. P.S. He looks like pedro pascal : )

[@Leander_]

Fantastic talk!

[@luansinh0]

22:17 His excitement is priceless.

[@GenshinContentHoyolab-mk4ic]

thank youuuuuu I just instantly subscribed

[@GerbenWijnja]

The recording feature would be great. We've all been there, when we did a lot of work and then accidentally deleted the code, and it wasn't added/committed yet. And you pull your hair out wonder why th you didn't commit it... and you have to rewrite everything. It would be great if git allowed you to undelete something.

[@sharanupst]

Neat. Learned a few things. Thanks.

[@lpanebr]

13:01 WOW! That's the way to use blame!

[@jessen00001]

Great video thanks 🎉😊

[@xdcountry]

That was fantastic!!

[@Bobbel888]

Never thought, that there were tools properly managing deconfliction, while everyone is telling about His obvious insight.

[@captainchaos3667]

Good to see what a good git client IntelliJ IDEA actually is.

[@thygrrr]

1:30 CVS, SVN, Hg, Git, PlasticSCM

[@wizpig64]

thanks for saving me uncountable hours!

[@squidiebah]

Great session

[@TheLegendaryBaum]

Awesome talk!

[@savagepro9060]

Wicked fkin opening soundtrack, bombaclaat!

[@Little-bird-told-me]

Most important command I learned *git blame*

[@artysanmobile]

I git so much good info there.

[@ruslanmustaev8170]

Am I old too? Had some experience working with SVN

[@animarain]

I assume why the filter for clone takes "blob:none" for no blobs but "tree:0" for trees is because the first means "no blobs", but the other doesn't mean "no trees" but "root of tree", i.e. index 0.

[@MaxMalm]

Great talk, are the commands listed somewhere for copy/pasting?

[@jldevezas]

Isn't "git worktree" something to help you work on multiple branches at the same time? Did I miss the use case there?

[@metcaelfe]

Crowd Strike gonna be using that git blame -C -C -C right about now

[@Fazal828]

What a fun talk!

[@DrHarib0]

I have had the alias pfusch=push --force-with-lease for a long time now. Not only is it an approximation of the full command, but in German, 'pfusch' means to make things worse both by good intentions (and implied ignorance) or simply by not giving a shit

[@MikkoRantalainen]

43:00 I agree that having more than one index would be great but I see many Git newcomers having problems wrapping their mind around even the single index, so having multiple indexes in parallel would melt some brains.