GM II VS Hizack: Which one is the BETTER mass-production MS? (Gundam Lore)

[@gundamfacts]

[A small correction for the audience] -> my claim about the total absence of any GM II Aqua is actually false: there is actually such a MS, the GM II Rah II Aqua. This being said, the GM II Aqua is merely the combination of a repainted GM II with the Aqua Hambrabi II parts, a support module that can be grafted on an absurd amount of MS, be it Barzams, Hazel Oswas, Woundworts, GM IIs...but also Act Zakus! As such, the existence of the GM II Aqua is less of a proof of a higher versatility for the GM II, and more of a praise to the Aqua Hambrabi super compatibility

[@nicholashoskins8266]

From what i gather about the gm line(gm 1-3 and jegan) after rereading the msv-r rojr manga, apparently all of the modules/addons/variant parts used by the first gm's can be applied to the later ones. This is best shown when yazan uses the night seeker parts on his gm 3. There was another case of a gm 3 with an odd addon in f90 fastest formula when it equips the full armor gundam's gear for itself. Instead of aqua gm's you would think they would've added those parts to their gm 2 or 3 stock. Though it was probably them taking cost cutting measures to use everything they have currently instead of innovating something.

[@gundamfacts]

Yeah but Im pretty sure if I use the GM III in a VS video, it will definitely win the frame versatility part over many contenders. The thing is that unfortunately i have to quantify things to compare MS, and speculating too much can impact things or renders them impossible to compare

[@nicholashoskins8266]

@@gundamfacts Fair enough.

[@Kenny_F91]

I always thought it was weird the GM II had worse performance than a machine that couldn't even use two beam weapons simultaneously.

[@blackknight-oz8bi]

Hizack: im the first zaku machine to use beam weaponry Act zaku: am I a joke to you

[@gundamfacts]

To be fair, the Act Zaku was insanely expensive, and the pre production models couldn't even use the beam rifle, instead relying on their magnetic coating and their four barrel mega machinegun to be worth something

[@stag1739]

So just the gm 2 became the new zaku 1 (way lower specs but made up for in reliability and sheer numbers) in the gryps war, and in turn the hizack the zaku 2 equivalent (the “new” machine with “higher” performance) Digging the OYW zeon resemblances

[@gundamfacts]

Pretty much

[@sev2136]

GM II not getting any environment variants can be blamed on the federation for whatever reason taking Zaku marine types and upgrading those into TWO different ms that are better than the marine suits they already have rather than you know upgrading the Aqua gm.

[@gundamfacts]

To be fair the Aqua GM was always a pushover even by OYW standards

[@sev2136]

True, but the Zaku marine's even worse.

[@jmsanzo797]

Great point about the Hi-zack being used for occupation of former Zeon colonies! As for the GMII variants, I think they could be outfitted like the original GM. I think Yazan piloted a GMIII with Night Seeker parts. I could imagine a GMII desert or land combat type being made or upgraded to

[@David7793]

His subordinates did have GM IIs with Night Seeker parts iirc. His was a GM III.

[@gundamfacts]

His subordinates have actually GM Night Seekers II, which are late OYW upgrades of the OG Night Seeker that were reproduced after the war, but aren't part of the GM II line directly

[@robertdrexel2043]

You know my only real complaint about the Hizack is that it uses the same Zaku Machine Gun, and Heat Hawk of the original Zaku II design. Why not say a more federation-like mobile suit machine gun and maybe some sort of downized heat sword for the Hizack? Oh. I could see the Hizacks used by that of the Republic of Zeon would use those weapons for they would most likely a large amount still in stock, but Federation or Titan used Hizacks should have some sort of Federation based weapons. Anyways thanks for the video. Really need to work further on my Alternative Zeta Fanfiction story idea one of these ideas!

[@solaireofastora5999]

BecUse that wpuld require effort and more resource rather than just tweaking it and slapping a new cout of paint. Plus the Reactor can't handle 2 beam qeapons so its either Zaku Machine gun and Beam Saber or Beam Rifle and Heat Hawk

[@bigboi7817]

Zeon lost the war and most of their production facilities to the feds. It would make sense to continue production of tested reliable weapons rather than changing factories and production lines which could take months or years when they need weapons and ammo right now.

[@xnflg3074]

Good video, especially enjoyed the similarities drawn between the concept of "soft power" in the UC Gundam lore with how that would work in our world. Obviously there is a lot of real-world influence in Gundam stuff but not a lot of people look at it in an in-depth way. Would've been even cooler if you brought up the Rosette/Dandelion Hizack variant that was the testbed for some of the Baund Doc's weirder MA mode-shifting shenanigans

[@gundamfacts]

Soft Power was a very enjoyable topic to explore!

[@mikeeB-m5h]

About the soft power, if I'm a grunt pilot who survives OYW and has a promotion, after seeing that abomination, I'll switch to AEUG and maybe pilot either Nemo or Guncanon DT.

[@ihatecabbage7270]

if you were a Titan, you probably being assigned a mobile suit based on Titan's affinity towards you. Titans were Earth Federation elite force until they turncoat.

[@Nehfarius]

Seems you know the Golden Rule: find whichever side has Bright Noah on it, then jooin that side.

[@michaelsong3733]

Okay, fair. Counter point: I aint gettin in one of dem gat d*** zeon spacenoid mobile suits, no sir my granpappy trained me to be a Jimmy pilot! Yee-haw! Didin't they say in Advanced of Zeta that the GM-II wasn't enough of an upgrade to the GM Quel to use over the Hizack? I heard this from somewhere, and was wondering if that meant the GM-II was actually better, even though the Quel was "better in some ways" then the Custom.

[@Dr.pp4256]

Yes the gm ll was better lmao. While the quel and custom were great machines the were replaced by the gm ll due to how cheap and easy they were to make and had not only same but better stats on paper. It’s sadly why we don’t see any customs and quels used very often.

[@michaelsong3733]

@@Dr.pp4256 that makes no sense. The Custom was a new state of the art MS...then we get the Quel for almost half the price. And then the GM-II a year later, which is even more MP but alot of them are just sheer upgrades.

[@Dr.pp4256]

@@michaelsong3733 I’m not following your logic here are you disagreeing with me or are you agreeing? You’re original statement was poorly put together.

[@David7793]

My thoughts is that the old one year war GM variants just needed a small refurbishment and it was enough.

[@gundamfacts]

But not for long

[@David7793]

Speaking of, besides the paranomic cockpit, is there any other differences between the Early GM II and the Late GM II? Could Regular OYW GMs be converted to the late type?

[@Dr.pp4256]

@@David7793I think so

[@ihatecabbage7270]

The GMs were severely obselete by the time of the Gryps war, and was shown during the early epsidoes of Zeta, the GMs field by the some EF Titan pilots performed significantly worse than the Hizacks. The pilots complaint the GMs can't even get an aim against AEUG NEMOs before being destroyed.

[@gilbat1]

If I could make a minor criticism, I don't fully agree with the system of awarding 1 point per category. The Federation has repeatedly demonstrated that they usually place more value on cost and scale of production over raw performance in their grunt mobile suits, so giving both categories given equal weight here doesn't feel like it matches the EFF's priorities and leads to skewed results. That being said, trying to assign different weights to each category would dramatically increase the complexity (and mathematics) needed to make the comparisons, so I also understand why you didn't go that route. The soft power/occupation aspect is an interesting point, but I think it also has the potential to backfire on the EFF. I could just as easily see former Zeon territories taking it as an insult, with the Federation "mocking them" by fielding what to them is a bastardization/corruption of a Zaku. Given how crazy Zeon revanchism gets it's probably a crapshoot either way. In any case, I think both mobile suits end up being roughly equal to each other overall. At the end of the day they're both "interwar" designs that rapidly get outclassed as the Gryps Conflict flares up. As far as future comparison series, I think it would be cool to have a follow-up where you compare the Marasai and Rick Dias, or possibly GM III vs the Gaza series.

[@gundamfacts]

I do agree with you on this: on paper performance and Tactical use should have higher value than Soft Power and frame versatility which should have a higher value than inbuilt weapons. The problem is that attributing "values" to the criterias is problematic since it renders the whole analysis way more subjective (I'm sure you would rank some of these differently for exemple). As for the soft power, I would agree, but despite stardust memory showing Zeon pilots despising EFF captured suits, it seems to be more of old vet attitude that a widespread behavior. By Zeta/ZZ, Neo Zeon pilots don't give a flying fuck about using Marasais, Hizack or any Titans/Feds derived tech as soon as it benefit them. Same goes for the Titans, with the younger generation of pilots like Jerid having 0 issues with Hizacks or Marasais despite being Eartborn supremacists.

[@teachme5334]

I find it impressive that you even analyze the implication and psychological power of both suit. Certainly a unique angle. That child of colony analogue is mwah, chefs kiss

[@porkflaps4717]

Information update: AoZ Reboot has recently released artwork for GM II variants!

[@menoscarforlife]

Damn the hizack is a combination of the gm and the zaku, its like both sides wanna have a baby despite its disputes.

[@gundamfacts]

Gonna reap that Zaku's vibe somehow

[@menoscarforlife]

@@gundamfacts its started with my mom (zaku 2) and my dad (gm) and they fell in love and they have me hi im ryan (hizack) and my life is kinda crazy. (I was thinking that stuff when i know that the hizack is a zaku and gm combined.)

[@gundamfacts]

Ahahah! I would add: pop (GM) wanted me to follow his career but then my alt-right Neo fascist uncle (Titans), that casually hates my mom (Zaku II) , brought me to alt-right rallies (Bunch 30 Incident)

[@menoscarforlife]

​@@gundamfactsoh man its good.

[@nassirhaskins8852]

I feel that one of the main reasons the Gm ii has basically no varients is because in it of itself is basically a varient of the Gm using the same frame. You are basically trying to modify the frame of a machine thats already modified. It would be easier to add external equipment, replacing entire parts like replacing the hazels legs with the advanced legs, or giving it new equipment like the harpoon gun from the aqua GM.

[@novaeye6081]

I think the reason why the gm 2 doesn't have any variants is because the gm 2 is mealy just a upgrade pack for the gm 1 so any gm from the one year war could be upgraded with gm 2 parts but the extent of the upgrades aren't worth of up dating the model numbers.

[@NeoXNeo2007]

I’ve been waiting for an episode like this for a long time it was worth it

[@gundamfacts]

It's been two years since the Dom Versus Gouf!

[@megagundamva2694]

I. Hope a Vid on the Marasai is next I love that suit

[@gundamfacts]

There is a spoiler at the end of the video 👀

[@galact1cphantom824]

I like to watch your videos while building gunpla. Keep up the good job 👍

[@Keryaken133]

hey, random unimportant question, what kit did you build?

[@emperorhadrian6011]

I'd always considered that the gm2 was compatible with all the gm equipment.

[@takumin1788]

10 months later watching this video, it brings a big smile to my face to see the Hizack win (this is coming from a guy whose favorite MS in the entire gundam universe is the Hizack, don't ask why, I don't know either)

[@David7793]

If you are talking about optional inbuilt equipment wouldn’t the GM II also count? While the Hizack’s missile launcher is optional equipment.

[@gundamfacts]

The thing is that Hizack launcher is standardly equipped, like a whole bunch of Hizack have it installed daily while the GM II doesn't have an equivalent (for the GM III, the missiles pods on the waist and shoulders are treated like the Hizack launchers however)

[@David7793]

I also thought the Beam Saber also count as inbuilt equipment since it’s built into the backpack.

[@nikoladedic6623]

He outright mentions weapons that aren't wielded with hands.

[@David7793]

If possible can we get info on the Adoption of the GM III, if the GM II is RGM-82? How was the RGM-86R like, a prototype?

[@nikoladedic6623]

RGM-82 is GM II Kai from a non-canon manga.

[@maxthunder2]

Wow thanks for the video that was very informative! It would be cool if we had a comparison of some late UC mobile suits.

[@gundamfacts]

Contio VS Rig Shokew ahaha

[@davegravel882]

Hey could you do a video on the marasai and it's upgrade the griffon?? Rms-156

[@gundamfan1981]

Zaku iii and doven wolf

[@McLeod917]

Great and informative video

[@jeeves829]

Odd question! Any chance you could release the lineart of the Gogg Kai you made as well as the Rote Doga? They're much better and more complete designs than we got in canon and your work on them is very appreciated.

[@gundamfacts]

I should be able to pass them to you through discord

[@SudrianTales]

I always found it weird that the Titans never just took the Gundam MK2 and simplified it for a GM3 as a grunt

[@andagean]

Me a Hizack fan. Happy with the results. I feel like this more than justifies why the Titans took priority over the limited supply of Hizacks while the far more easy to produce GMII were more favored by the desperate AEUG (who just wanted to fill their ranks fast as possible) and the regular EFF.

[@Tokumastu1]

I always found it interesting that the Hi-Zack to me looks better in Federation colors. But the Gundam MK2 looks better in titan colors. Another point in favor of the Hi-Zack is that the Custom version is a dam good machine that can stand up to the Nemo. Saddly not many of those were made.

[@solaireofastora5999]

The Hizack is the result of a Psy-op to make the Titans look more evil because they're using Zaku models

[@nikoladedic6623]

I had no idea GM's performance was worse due to its frame.

[@derekwilson7990]

I know we have the thought that a federation zaku wouldn’t be accepted but we have a very successful real world example. The f-15 eagle was basically a mig-25 foxbat copy. Although much more powerful due to the ussr successful propaganda campaign making the foxbat seem much more remarkable than it was This us copy however became probably the most successful fighter aircraft in history. Copies happen all the time in the real world if something works well the enemy has no problem accepting it just with their version and no one bats an eye. What matters is do you have the best. This was a problem with the real robot genre and I commend zeta for showing a more realistic view that federation would mix technology and make the best machines. Wish it continued in future series but it makes it harder to make bad guy toys and good guy toys.

[@megagundamva2694]

tbh i love Both the Hizack and GM 2 i could handle being a pilot of ether

[@zakhaevshub4735]

For me GM II is still the better unit, without it GM III will never be a thing and subsequently the Jegan

[@David7793]

Do we know the Stats of the GM II Kai? Does it even have a model number?

[@nikoladedic6623]

RGM-82

[@David7793]

@@nikoladedic6623thanks but judging by that model number it came before the GM II

[@nikoladedic6623]

​@@David7793I screwed up. That's the GM II model number. The one I was thinking of is different. And no, we don't have Kai's number.

[@Zain-fi]

Maybe you could think that the GM2 is good enough to operate in all conditions? But both sides are valid

[@soulezwan266]

So technically it a on par with each other.

[@quasideificalpaca]

Barzam vs Nemo?

[@brunnen1]

nemo supremacy

[@mikloridden8276]

Hi Zack easily. While both were outdated, the Hizack could be equipped with various equipment which made it punch up its class. In Zeta those things constantly shot up AUEG forces provided it wasn’t Kamille and the Argama crew.

[@David7793]

I thought the GM II was overall slightly better then the Custom? Or mixed in terms of performance.

[@Dr.pp4256]

It is slightly better than the gm custom, Cheaper and performance on paper was the same or higher depending on sources.

[@David7793]

@@Dr.pp4256speaking of how would a Quel compete with a GM II considering the Quel is also a improvement of the custom.

[@Dr.pp4256]

@@David7793 GM quel is faster and lighter but not by a lot at all, It’s slightly faster but has less power output. Overall it’s all skill on who piloting the suits. Quel was just more expensive and the Gm ll was super easy to make and cheap. But like I said it’s all depending on what source you use, Some say it’s better and some say it’s the same.

[@Mist2003]

I like 'Cod' -- Mk V is a Favorite of mine lol

[@aker1993]

Saying hi zack is better is saying dog water is good

[@traphimawari7760]

i like the GM :)

[@stephenemery8831]

First like! First comment! Again!

[@Maxus117]

I think the hizack is better because it is a titan unit.

[@rgm-fleet89]

kecek supo tambi

[@joncandib1721]

Hi-zack wins GM 2 zero

[@bigboi7817]

So what youre saying is, GMs are ugly and Zakus are way cooler.

[@Shin_Lona]

ZEON DID NOTHING WRONG!!!

[@DIEGhostfish]

Bot are so bad.