God beyond God: Meister Eckhart

[@youbetyourwrasse]

'Tis a shame that such ideas are nearly universally viewed as heretical by most Protestant denominations. The bible is great .. but it is not necessarily the ONLY thing that is "the word of God." What if the word of God is speaking in silence to every surrendered and humbled soul? What if the Voice speaks and we don't hear it? Unless we are in pefrect still slilence?

[@valkyrie8937]

This teaching is same as Hindu Advaita Vedanta , Islam Sufism , Druze tawhid faith and Kabbala

[@yogawithhelen3185]

thank you with helping me on my journey to peace

[@ronwalker403]

Excellent presentation. Thanks!

[@stuartboorman]

Superb work here. I found this to be such a useful summary of Meister Eckhart's ideas. Thank you.

[@africandawahrevival]

🌚: "Disclose this not to the uninitiated" Labyrinths: Proceeds to share on KZbin 🤭😁. I think the uninitiated are probably uninterested anyway, so most of these will fly past them. But, I understand it, so, I guess..

[@Nakfourium]

Great video. Thank you

[@SolveEtCoagula93]

Why are you perpetuating a false portrait of Meister Eckhart? The portrait shown at the beginning is not that of Meister Eckhart - rather, it is that of Fra Teodoro of Urbino. It was painted around 1515 by Giovanni Bellini. The original painting now belongs to a museum in London, but is on loan to the National Gallery, also in London.

[@labyrinthsideas]

Many thanks - I’m glad to know this and was simply unaware. Surely there are few purported depictions of Eckhart, so far as I’m aware, but I’d thought this was one of the few potentially accurate ones. Thank you for commenting! I’ll make a point to look into this.

[@SolveEtCoagula93]

@@labyrinthsideas Thank you for your extra quick response. I came across the shown portrait when looking for some art prints and had to do a double take. If you look on the National Gallery's website, you will see an image of the original. I cannot find any suggestion as to how the attribution arose. I think that's probably a lost cause.

[@labyrinthsideas]

For sure. I don’t get to post here as much as I’d like, but certainly I want everything to be accurate! That being said, Eckhart’s legacy seems to be oddly plagued by inaccuracies; too often, supposed quotations from him turn out to be liberal paraphrases of a line that in context has a different meaning. So it goes. Will indeed look into this matter of the image, though, when time permits, appreciated.

[@SolveEtCoagula93]

@@labyrinthsideas There is an 'authentic' (accepted by art historians) image of Eckhart, painted by Andrea di Bonaiuto. When you compare the real image of Eckhart to the false one of Fra Teodoro, it shows huge differences. His real image looks so gentle and warm.

[@labyrinthsideas]

@@SolveEtCoagula93 Very useful indeed - and yes, the severity of the image in the thumbnail has always been off-putting. Is this the one you have in mind by chance? christianhistoryinstitute.org/storage/PkGdn3zSWkWUnUNdSEoZX1hv0hySvN68EpgInqmv.jpg

[@regisbritto2607]

😂😂😂 In all humility, " Has there EVER been a period when the CATH O lic (k) communism IS void of tension??? All things man made is prone to IMPLODE!!!😮😮😮

[@WollastonAaron-d8f]

Brown Mary Taylor Brenda Jones Mark

[@Dasher123]

When the me is present God is absent

[@shaundisch2020]

Perfectly said. 🙏

[@chadkline4268]

When one is drowning in sensuality, mind+body consciousness, God is absent.

[@cecilcharlesofficial]

He was correct. When we see that no consciousness chooses its thoughts, we may realize the thing we thought we were this whole time (some little 'chooser' inside our own head) isn't exactly there at all, and thus we begin to see God's 'will' as that which is unfolding, in all moments, at every moment, good and bad, lessons learned or tragically not, all precisely because control is an illusion: it's all up to God. Though I don't think He 'chooses' either - nothing can. A consciousness is only ever presented with its will. Again, we think we are 'the chooser.' But choice is an illusion. So the 'I' goes away. One is left with God.

[@martyrrt]

Epic.

[@cecilcharlesofficial]

the joke is: the me is never actually present

[@omx3x]

Intresting topic. The concept of the divine spark and oneness lines up very closely with other traditions such as advaita vedanta, sikhism and sufism.

[@bonniel4325]

Thank you for these videos. It's great that you are highlighting the original theologians, and inviting more disciplined and open-minded thought about Catholicism.

[@annaadelheim8367]

The language of God is silence

[@Angela-ns1gl]

Thank you for this wonderful explanation of the thinking of Eckhart. Your lecture is clear, making an understanding of Eckhart understandable. Another lecture I listened to on Eckhart made my eyes cross.

[@johnmiller0000]

I love this. I was turned off from Christianity as a child because it's purpose was never explained and I was forced to sing hymns and pray everyday at school by law. I am now on a non-dual path, having arrived at it through an attraction to Eastern teaching such as advaita vedanta. But now, I am beyond any traditions and understand that I have to go beyond all concepts etc. My teacher refers to "oneness". And here's this video doing the same!!! Thank you.

[@alecmisra4964]

Oneness is a concept.

[@SolveEtCoagula93]

@@alecmisra4964 Not only that, it is a dualistic concept and therefore has no meaning in non-duality.

[@paulward2333]

Mind-blowing, isn't it? My path has been very similar. I recommend highly T.S Eliot's Ash Wednesday as a beautiful poetic bridge between Eastern sensibilities and Christianity. Namaste.

[@cecilcharlesofficial]

It's like this: No consciousness chooses its thoughts, its preferences, its will, what it feels moment to moment. I know that may sound crazy (no one talks about it) but bear with me. We can't make ourselves love by saying "I love you." We can't 'choose' a thought without just having it. We do learn, thank God. But it's not up to us when we learn: we don't rearrange our neurons to see finally "Ah-ha," and even if we did, it wouldn't be up to us to have the desire TO rearrange our neurons. Just like if we could change our will - that's really still just will presenting itself. But 'free will' or determinism, either way a consciousness just feels "I want that" - whether 'that' is something basic, something wrong perhaps, or your grandest idea of communing with God. And this means we can't choose to have faith either. We don't choose anything. And yet we're stuck suffering the consequences, and our own judgment, and the judgment of others. We never escape our conscience, even if it evolves somewhat over time. We always judge, even if it's in saying "Judgment is bad." That's still a judgment, oh cult of tolerance. So, we're stuck, doing and judging and feeling and hoping to learn. But we never know what we'll think of next, and our next thought might change our life. That's part one. Part two is: you're not in charge of anything but you can learn to place your mind on the sensation of the thing you hate most: fear/pain. Fear, anxiety, anger, guilt - any/every feeling that drives you "up the wall," are really all sensations of types of pain in your body. Just like thoughts, you don't choose sensations either. But seeing it's a sensation is great: no longer are you battling the idea of 'fear,' rather you see it's a physical thing. Then spend time (every moment you can remember) putting your awareness on all sensation, but especially fear - and you'll realize you have all these pockets in your body that are physically tense (like you're clenching in expectation of an incoming punch), in an effort to not feel something you're worried about, some conversation you're scared to have, some insecurity you're dealing with, or maybe just because you're hungry. This tension keeps you from being your relaxed, best self. It makes you overly sensitive and frustrated that you can't seem to get it to go away. In taking time and looking at what your body feels (in as many moments and situations as you can) you see how much the things you do are steered by this pain. This isn't an "Oh the pain!" sob story, and it's certainly not to make you feel like a victim. Because the point is: if you start to look straight at it, accept it: good things start to happen. But you have to admit it's there first, find it, accept it, and admit it's not up to you if it comes or goes. Versus what we do normally: grit, hoping the grit will cause the pain to go away. Rather, try a new habit. If you can dare yourself, look straight at it. We seem to be able to get those tense tissues and muscles to relent by simply holding our minds on them. Aka, find the anxiety (the vague pain of chronically tense muscles anywhere in your body, but especially behind your eyes, your mouth, voicebox, sternum, abdomen) and put your mind on it (the reverse of what you try to do whenever you 'take your mind off' pain). Much pain seems to be somewhat appeased (?) by just looking right at it. You watch those muscles/tissues physically relent, even just for a moment, and see yourself act (in those moments) without the hindrance that was there before, clouding your ability to be the gregarious, at-peace you. Part three: We've progressed far enough with science to see that as things get smaller and smaller we never actually find the 'stuff,' but rather smaller and smaller patterns of form. Take an atom, for example. It's actually protons and neutrons and electrons. There's no 'shell' of the atom. It's just those smaller things buzzing round making the form we'd call 'atom.' But then take the smaller things (the neutrons, protons, electrons)... they're not actually 'things' either, no shell. But they're smaller 'subatomic particles' which are themselves smaller patterns and/or energy. There's never any 'stuff,' just pattern. It hit me: Space is 'the thing' and matter is when that thing is bunched, or energized, or 'in form' or 'discernible' or 'interactive.' Imagine a napkin laid flat on a table. Now, pinch the napkin somewhere so it sticks up, like a nipple. We recognize the 'nipple,' but in truth it's still just napkin. In the same way, apace is like the napkin and 'matter' is like the pinched section of the napkin. But it's all napkin. It's all God. And thus to it explains His will is always being done ("Thy will be done" means it's your will, God, and not "Gee God, I hope you get your way."). But this will includes our mistakes, and the fact that they're mistakes (they're not suddenly good), but also the consequences and the suffering and our learning. And in seeing that absolutely nothing is in control we see also the real reason for faith: it's all God's will and there's nothing 'to be done.' Aka, you can't stop yourself from being you, but you've no idea what that actually means about who you'll be in each next moment. It's up to God. The ego is the illusion. It's Lucifer saying "I can do better," and God saying "Yes, Lucifer, but who put that idea in your mind?" It's all God. Even when you think it's not. Even when you've got no faith. And there's still morality. And consequence. I don't know about eternal Hell, other than life is hellish (to varying degrees) so long as we forget our place. We are obeying but we think we're not. It's just that our obeying includes the bad stuff too, and we can't fathom that this conundrum doesn't disprove God, or the Good, or our own 'accountability' in it all. But it doesn't. There's still God, and morality, and the consequences (though no one knows precisely what those are, either). Just breathe and have faith, since we're not in control.

[@johnmiller0000]

There is no "us" as human beings. There's just oneness manifesting as human beings. "You" are oneness. Therefore, the human being is just doing its spontaneous thing and oneness is aware of it. Science has shown that the body carries out actions before the thought "I'm going to do this or that" takes place. i.e., something just happens (e.g., I get up to make a cup of tea) and - after the fact in a fraction of a second - the ego creates a story as to why it was the ego doing it! Re science - I'm a scientist. I have recently realized that science cannot explain ANYTHING. It uses words but can't actually explain what any of the following very fundamental things are: time, space, energy, consciousness, matter. What it can do is explain how these unknowable things will likely behave in our perception. I have now arrived at the point of "unlearning" or "unknowing". I'm done with trying to understand that that cannot be understood. Instead, through direct experience, I want to know (not understand) what is true.

[@paulward2333]

@cecilcharlesofficial This is my favorite KZbin reply of all time. Thank you so much for authoring it.

[@cecilcharlesofficial]

@@paulward2333 makes me smile. It's all I've been able to think about since it clicked intellectually nearly two years ago. We're a ball of tension, afraid that we might not be able to protect ourselves from whatever happens next. This state of being isn't up to us, but it has consequences (the pain of life is why you're here). Seeing that fundamentally what happens next isn't up to us isn't an escape from the pain: it's acceptance. It's is a freedom I never thought I'd understand. It's not no-holds-barred. There are always consequences. It's something else. It's not a child's idea of 'what if I was God.' It's realizing that if God has thoughts, He doesn't choose them either. Nothing could 'choose it's own will,' when you just admit how it is to be conscious. Admit it: the lack of control. And then you see why "The truth shall set you free."

[@raymonddunne7153]

Are detachment and grace the same thing?

[@JD-HatCreekCattleCo]

This is consistent to where science seems to be going…that perhaps the universe or something has always been…and the concept of the multiverse. One thing for sure…there is nothing new under the sun. Fascinating 🙏

[@prajnabala]

This was very helpful to explain why I am drawn to the Catholic church even though it seems absurd. This description of Eckhart's theology is exactly how I experience God.

[@yogawithhelen3185]

the path of the sage comes to mind GOD BLESS THE PURE

[@mueezadam8438]

High quality presentation

[@Jennifurdawn]

Ok but detachment is doing something and Eckhart said we can’t do anything to become one with God? How do we ignite the spark thru detachment if we can’t possibly do/be god/godly on our own accord? Maybe because we are never fully on our own accord? If we always have the spark in us, the “god” spark, is that what makes us capable? The Bible does the same thing - it says “this, not of ourselves, but through grace . . . “ but then it says if you don’t believe you don’t go to heaven. How can I believe if I can’t do anything to be saved or go to heaven?

[@jesseliddell4472]

Really benefited from your explanation of the concept of "theosis." As a reformed Christian, any notion of theosis, or the similar concept here from Eckhart, has always seemed heretical. I'd always thought that theosis among Orthodox Christians wasn't too far from what some Mormons teach about followers eventually turning into "gods" of sorts.

[@richardtruluck2024]

How do they get all this from the Bible?

[@johngarrity6687]

TY but... How can there be no mention of the wayless way here?

[@wungabunga]

I’m surprised Eckhart kept his head! Not the detachment he would have hoped for, I’m sure.

[@highvolume4989]

Thank you. As to analogy about hinge and the door. Once I thought of the question-is there calm in the storm? And my interlocutor said about the eye of the cyclone. The eye is "a region of mostly calm weather at the center of a tropical cyclone". Though I don't know whether this is correct example to this analogy.

[@gk10101]

no one needs to be taught about God but everyone needs to be taught by God. Eckert falls into the trap of speaking too much

[@selvingreen3585]

I strongly disagree with you. He definitely doesn't "teach about god". I find nothing substantial said by him about God and his characteristics. He instead beckons the listener to still themselves and hear the God. Your statement "everyone needs to be taught by God" will work only when people know where to find him, and how to approach him. Too many of people, even today think that he's in the sky, or in that building or in this iconography and so on. And they think canned prayers, rituals, spiritual ascetisim and reading Bible will get them God. They're stuck up in religion. When it's all just crowding their minds with even more concepts. They're fixated on the finger rather than looking at the moon that it points to. Christian denominations, love to speak about and ON BEHALF of God. And love to say they have been given authority. And the ONLY great way to go to God. Eckhart steers clear of all this. Read his sermons. That batch of book was essential at the time when Church was hell-bent on establishing religious authority.

[@gk10101]

@@selvingreen3585 yes Christians love to speak on behalf of God. they love to teach about God but all they give us is their own knowledge. I was unfamiliar with the negative theology idea which comes across a bit shocking so I put it in the deception category. After listening a few times I see its just a method to get past the limitations of knowledge. I myself came by way of the words of Jesus: "you must become like a child to enter the kingdom of heaven". Negative theology works towards a similar result.

[@josiesmith2773]

Thank you

[@shaundisch2020]

"We possess God to the extent which we possess peace." - Meister Eckhart. He also said that he looked in all the world's scriptures to find the common thing that leads to God, and that is detachment. So to me, the proof of detachment is inner peace, so I keep my inner peace at all costs, and keep an eye on it nearly always, like continuous prayer. In deep peace we cease to exist psychologically so that only God remains. Inner peace, for world peace, and so that we can fall into God. "Awareness sees consciousness, but consciousness can never see awareness." Nisargadatta. I call awareness God. We can never prove awareness, but the beauty is that we dont need to. Even atheists will admit that they are aware of their consciousness. Can they define their awareness? Prove it? Touch it? No, awareness is prior to creation, it is the creator. God is the youngest as God was never created. Awareness was never created either of course, God being awareness, which is the essence of all, sees all, and is everywhere at all times.

[@labyrinthsideas]

Many thanks - and I'm glad you mention Nisargadatta! I've taught selections from his book I Am That in the past in my course Religions of Asia. Here's a link to those remarks: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rX-zemmNgbuSmtksi=PBtu4ZsizhDE1IRA&t=71

[@shaundisch2020]

​@@labyrinthsideasAmazing!!! I will watch it! Do you have a link to the detachment piece by Eckhart? Is that the one where he says he has never been unhappy because every moment reveals God's blessed will to him?

[@labyrinthsideas]

I'm not sure about that particular line, but his "On detachment" has always been my go to: german.yale.edu/sites/default/files/meister_eckhart_on_detachment.pdf @@shaundisch2020

[@gibbz00]

Wow, this is so awesome. Soul touching stuff.

[@TomPrior16]

Amazing :)

[@retribution999]

Excellent

[@mariakatariina8751]

Eckhart had it erroneously.

[@stephenandracki3371]

Thank you. What you are presenting shrinks time to when we return

[@tjryou]

In my knowledge, that picture is not real portrait of Meister Eckhart. I think it is only the fictional image of some artist. Do you have any ground to use the picture?