Gods of Order and Antiwarp | Warhammer 40K Lore Theory

[@beerasaurus]

You could call it Da Emprah’s Gubbins

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Everyone go home we have a name

[@emperah8948]

​@@livefromtheblacklibraryI approve.

[@BI-11y_TheStormTrooper]

For da EmPraH, For da 'Perium !

[@DaddyVeo1911]

Better than what I came up with. The Praw.

[@forestjohnson7474]

I see the orks have started to worship the Emperor.

[@janvancura8412]

"This is gonna sound insane" My brother in the Emperor you talk about Warhammer almost everything in this is insane.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

You know what? Absolutely fair

[@the_emperor_of_mankind]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary ikr

[@robertnelson9599]

@@the_emperor_of_mankind The fact that FTl travel is done by having a three-eyed man guide you through literal hell is not even the craziest thing.

[@losttobooze]

You could call the anti warp the weft. Warp and weft are weaving terms. The warp is stretched across the loom while the weft is created by the threads moving through the warp. Creating a whole cloth. This can be viewed as the totality of reality. In this scenario however there could only be stalemate and completeness

[@sethrinker9944]

This is it right here. The Warp and Weft make up the Cloth of Everything.

[@ForgottenSaber2367]

The Fabric of Realty, if you will

[@notsocrazytank707]

That's a very good name which brings out a word meaning that's usually not associated with the Sea of Souls. My proposition was to call the opposite realm "Stasis", as perfect Order which Big E representative tends to lock everything in stasis without change. A horrible thing in its own right, which needs Warp to balance it out. Although I now feel like Weft is a better name, as it has more meaning and isn't necessarily opposite to Warp, but rather parallel

[@Goldenblitzer]

I think the Emperor actually being a God, along with all the things said here, is going to be the culmination of the Dark King from the SoT. This stuff is so exciting

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

I REALLY wanna see where they go with that! I can't wait to make a video on TEATD Vol2

[@updfdrakkell143]

one vid recently made me think Big E's soul will be a 'good' god while his body becomes the dark king

[@Goldenblitzer]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary my guy, I cant wait to watch it

[@btg7760]

No as a horus fan this plot point means that horus can return without a soul and even guide people to help him create a new soul and infuse his corpse with his warp energy and new soul resurrecting his old body and maybe since he is a god now he can get revenge on the chaos gods

[@danmorris5498]

I don't think we should write off ynnead just yet

[@Ulfrik12]

You're mostly right on the Moorcock stuff except for the Gods of Order being intrinsically weaker. The Gods of Order and Chaos are on a perpetually swinging pendulum, in Elric of Melniboné's world the Gods of Order were defeated and banished for the most part, thus why Elric becomes an Eternal Champion for Order to swing the balance back to the middle, but in other universes order becomes so powerful that it's authoritarian and stagnating, and in those universes the Eternal Champions are avatars of Chaos. Also Chaos and Order are both good and bad in both settings, one is creation and freedom, the other represents stability and form.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Yeah that’s true! The video was getting a big long through so I had to cut for time

[@jmd9402]

I remember reading a 40k iceberg and one of the entries at the very bottom was "Sigmar is the star child"

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

I have no evidence but I believe this now

[@updfdrakkell143]

well there is alot of fan stuff saying how fantasy and 40k are related and effect each other and theres some pretty good points brought up. And well Sigmar did have his soul goin threw space/warp (cant member which off hand) So I can see how when Fantasy ended 40ks star child soul merged with sigmars to make the god-king. There is ALOT of theories on this though

[@andresperedo1275]

nahh, Sigmar is one of the lost Primarchs

[@updfdrakkell143]

@@andresperedo1275 what if its Horus... the good side? Or he's acting good to get a huge army and fight his popa

[@andresperedo1275]

@@updfdrakkell143 Horus is dead and his soul is destroyed. And nobody in the galaxy prays to Horus.

[@agreatmanlookingtotheright]

I can already guess The Human Emperor God of Zealotism The Tau God of the Greater Good The Eldar God of death and the Necron God of non existence who isnt real formerly known as Malal

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Close but not quite! No necron god, wrong elder god, and wrong representations

[@Cyrus-rodn45]

Necrons already shattered their gods and trap them in pokeballs

[@capoeirastronaut]

I like the list

[@capoeirastronaut]

@@Ajmes 'ism' implies the turning of an activity into a creed or ideology, so it's actually an apposite neologism.

[@fbi6179]

Malal doesn't exist.

[@petra4385]

My dum little theory that the astronomican has some warp energies from when the warp was not shit might hold up more, since Isha and Cegorach are literal gods who were born in that form of the realm of souls. While the Big E deals with a bubble of that part of the realm of souls and the Tau god seems to be one more orderly and chill, fighting chaos already by smacking the shit out of a chaos fleet. Also the Big E being a god of war would make da boyz korrekt since they see him as a war god who fight Gork and Mork.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Da Boyz are never not correct 👏 also yeah, I feel you!

[@stain1095]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary You can call the anti-warp, the structure (because build relating one are weird)

[@myself2noone]

Hmm, if you're looking for an opposite of " she who thirsts." (I can't spell the actual name). Maybe The Kin's Votan kind of fit the bill. Votan is a reference to Odin, who fits the bill of a trickster God. As well as The Kin's opposition to waste and excess. A pleasure from excess vs. a pleasure from a sense of meaning. It's kind of a hedonism vs. stoicism thing going on. I know it's kind of a stretch, but in fairness, the whole idea is.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

I had considered something to do with the Leagues but since the Votaan aren’t a single entity it didn’t really fit in my mind, we really need some novels about them it’s been like a fucking YEAR since they were announced

[@myself2noone]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary Yeah, that's a good point. And yeah, they need to pit out some actual books. Even like a side story or something in one of the more mainline series would be nice at this point.

[@lorefox201]

Ynnead would be the opposite of she who thirsts, he was made for that explicit purpouse

[@jb03hf]

The laughing God of the Eldar.

[@LoneSilverW0lf]

I saw somewhere that there is a prophecy that an Eldar will kill Ms. Thirsty. Said Eldar already has 4/5 swords needed, but the last is in Thirsty’s palace. It would be difficult, but with the potential return of Fulgrim to the Imperium, E’s ascension, perhaps not impossible. So if Thirsty actually dies, then what?

[@donkface8509]

I do like the idea of the Omnissiah being both a C'tan and a Warp God of Order. Although I would expect it to be a little OP considering them being both Material and Immaterial deities

[@DrakusLuthos]

Perhaps that would be their strength. All of the Gods of Order are half-and-half. • The Emperor is both man and god. • Isha is both physical and psychic. • The Omnissiah is a psychic C’tan. • The Tau’va is the goddess of a psychically stagnant, but technologically advanced species.

[@archeogeek315]

The emperor is the omnissiah the Void Dragon is the machine God

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

Perhaps it's a little of both, maybe it originally started out as a c'tan shard but through faith and belief a god of cold logic and mechanics came into being

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

​@@archeogeek315 the Adeptus Mechanicus cult consider the Emperor to be either a prophet of the Omnissiah or a physical avatar of the Omnissiah. They don't consider him to be the Omnissiah

[@paulmusgrave2243]

My theory is that the Machanicus has lost their souls replacing their bodies with machine.The skitarii have no emotions and can be controlled like mindless machines.

[@fadillangston9797]

It will never cease to amaze me how much more thought Warhammer fans put into this universe than Games Workshop.

[@robertnelson9599]

The sad part is that GW comes up with a lot of cool plot lines, factions and entities, only to drop or retcon them for no reason.

[@jamesloiselle9098]

Better name for "anti-warp"... "Anathemiterium"

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

This is one of the best suggestions so far

[@CHESTNUT246]

id like to see what "demons" and "greater demons" of the tau god would look like.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Oh man that would be REALLY interesting 👀

[@FifingFossil]

If Vashtorr's daemons looks like half-mechanical half-biological machine-monsters, orderly daemons of progres could look like SFW versions of demonmachines but in style of tau tech(modern geometric shapes in white and gold).

[@inzyniertv9305]

​@@FifingFossil I would imagine them to look like the Knights Sentinels of Doom when it comes to the technological look just with a heavenly white and gold paintjob and blue energy blades and such

[@FifingFossil]

@@inzyniertv9305 this is possible

[@inzyniertv9305]

Neat @@FifingFossil

[@memesofwarhemmer7076]

Malal fans: come join us in retconia and all forgotten GW plot lines including tarmukan the hole original squats and a guy called Sherlock kenobi

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

And the Ynnari and the clone of Fulgrim, and AND GOD KNOWS WHAT ELSE 😭

[@aleanddragonITA]

Malal isn't forgotten They lost/don't have the Copyright 😂 This is why they created Malice but still underuse it/him

[@jakehearn432]

​​@@livefromtheblacklibrary *ahem* I'll be that guy, illuminati. Even if that plot point was atrocious

[@robertnelson9599]

@@jakehearn432 Also the Sensei and the fact that the Mechanicus developed a station that can hear things outside of the Milky Way, and the only thing they heard were Orks.

[@Wordweaver166]

What if "Malal" is actually the name of the supposedly nameless Emperor...

[@Ian-nl9yd]

You could argue the Tyranid hive mind might almost be a god of order. Again, diametrically opposed to the other three. A decent parallel to Slaanesh -- hunger and indulgence. One is frivolous, the other consumes to survive.

[@lostsanityreturned]

IMO we are coming up to a age of sigmaring for 40k. Not immediately, but I believe GW wants to move the universe to a balance and tone closer to that of AoS as of current (not how it was at launch)

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Yeah that’s def a possibility in my mind. Probably not for some time but they seem to be laying the groundwork for it

[@astrovarius543]

Horde and Alliance for 40k? Please Emperor no.

[@nathanlewis2681]

I've often thought in 40k there would be a Chaos God of Boredom. For many of the uncountable citizens of the Imperium life would be very repetitive and boring. That's gotta create some serious psychic force in the warp.

[@darthrevan4933]

There probably is but I seriously doubt a god of boredom would got up to much hence us never having heard of him

[@matijasostojic4288]

Sounds like nurgle's more apathetic and lazy brother.

[@robertnelson9599]

I imagine someone like The Watcher from Marvel, except with a less defined appearance and making zero attempt to interact with anyone or anything.

[@bluegum6438]

That would be Nurgle, he also covers the domains of despair and apathy. Lower hive cities are very Nurglite places, Nurgle always has a steady trickle of followers generated naturally by the conditions on most Imperial worlds.

[@pigeon4x250]

Holy shit, I think this is my favorite video you've ever done. I'm now obsessed with "anti-warp". I didn't know what the light of the astronomicon did to demon worlds until today and that's badass!

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Watch my previous video about the Astronomicon it goes in way deeper and its NUTS

[@pigeon4x250]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary headed there now. I'm going to be the charlie conspiracy meme from its always sunny by the time this is over 👍

[@zanefylnty1690]

“Mork and gork gods of “excess of violence“

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Gork and Mork are the only true gods change my mind

[@prophetisaiah08]

This is 40K, so if there is an anti-warp with angels and gods of Order, we can be sure that it will only make life shittier for everyone involved.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

God I hope so

[@2013Arcturus]

It's probably also stupid, but you could call the "anti-warp" the *"Weft."* I think it's neat, cause in weaving the weft is basically the support structure for the warp, which makes metaphorical sense if ya think about it.

[@EngineerOfVaul]

Alright, this is kind of content that gets me pumped. Glad I discovered your channel. For the order god opposing Slaanesh, cegorach is exactly it. He has been opposing Slaanesh ever since the fall, fucking up their plans constantly. He is supposed to trick Slaanesh at the end of the rhana dandra. In fact, even before the fall, the harlequins tried their best to sort of mock the debauchery and obsession that gave birth to Slaanesh, as a warning to their people. And they still do to this day. Slaanesh is all about the extremes of every act, the attempt at perfection of everything, the obsession that drive people into such feelings, and most importantly IMMENSE pride in all that. Cegorach meanwhile is the clown god, the jester who pranks with an air of nonchalance, and with his tricks and jokes exposes the folly such obsessiveness and perfectionism. He is the jester that exposes and destroys pride and arrogance, while teaching humility, laughing all the while. And I love that! And while I'm not Hindu myself, I've read quite a bit of Indian myths (Krishna is most certainly a trickster god... A really, really powerful one) and I really enjoy them a lot. And the tau'va as a god fascinates me immensely. I think tau'va being opposed to tzeench is pretty sensible, as tau society has often (though not always) been about progress and the willingness to adapt, which feels like an order version of the unbridled change that tzeench seems to embody. Overall, excellent theory. Also I don't have an alternative for anti warp, but I don't think it's necessary(?). Cause I feel like what the astronomicon burns away is the chaos influence within the warp, not the warp itself. The warp itself wasn't always screwed up (during the time of the old ones). So instead of calling it anti warp, you can call it anti chaos? Or just... Order influence?

[@C.D.G.1]

Malal is an anti-chaos god too. His the opposite of Slannesh. Slannesh is the extreme of emotions, while Malal is emotionless destruction.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Malal is really up in the air and honestly feels almost like a “neutral” god on a really aggressive sense lol

[@C.D.G.1]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary Indeed. It’s either him or The clown god. Both don’t exactly scream order.

[@DeusExAngelo]

I wouldn't say Malal or Malice is emotionaless destruction. But feelings of such dense hatred toward all things (Himself included) that he and his followers are numbed by it. Not a burning sun of hatred but devouring black hole of it.

[@JH-sv7wd]

I wouldn’t say malal or malice is anti-chaos, I’d say they represent the self destructive nature of chaos

[@darthjekyll3648]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary the chaos gods of anarchy- malice(anarchy) vashtor(mechs) Belakor(ambition) Drakneian(destruction of empires/ lawlessness)

[@hobblestv1442]

The Omnisiah would be the analogue for Slaanesh. Slaanesh is giving in to the pleasures of the flesh. The omnisiah directly represents the rejection of the flesh for machinery.

[@blam320]

The Emperor I would say is an exception to the "Gods of Order are weaker than gods of Chaos" paradigm. It's clearly stated in Godblight that the presence Mortarion sensed behind the cleansing and revival of Guilliman was just as powerful as Nurgle in the heart of his manse.

[@orrorsaness5942]

Gork and Mork are also exceptions, though, they aren’t really gods of order themselves, aren’t they. Those 2 are almost as chaotic as Malal 📿.

[@alexandremenard3833]

Well, the Emperor may also have focused all \ most of his energies in one spot while Nurgle is clearling juggling with a lot.

[@drhapi5308]

The Hivemind is the fourth God

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Yes. You are correct. Glory to the 4 armed emperor 😤👏

[@forestjohnson7474]

I could see that, numbers, calculating, ordered.

[@Commissar_Eiven]

I like it and I found it extremely interesting another important note currently in books they said the emperor's Throne will only last for another hundred years because they can't fix it so they might be setting up that the emperor is about to die and become a god of order?

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Yeah that’s likely!

[@sasquatchandme3673]

The Emperor is a Perpetual. If his body is killed or if he is unplugged from his life-support throne, he will self-resurrect.

[@manu_spawn]

The Emperor is the God of Faith, Hope and Survival, not the opposite of Khorne. Khorne doesn't represent just violence, he also represents honor in battle, martial prowess, discipline, power, and so on. But since the warp is tormented in a negative mayority, then he represents the negative aspect of violence.

[@Ratman36]

I would like to see how t'au'va affects the ethereals and their the warp powers.

[@Humuhumunukunukuapaa]

"I don't know who could be the 4th God of Order" *Tech Priest crying in the corner*

[@parkermaisterra8532]

Absolutely loved this video and boy do I gotta lot to say. First off though *thank you* for bringing up Elric, cause I swear it feels like that series has been forgotten. Every little shoutout feels so cathartic. Now something that this video reminded me of was the connection between the gods of chaos and the Eldar Patheon during the events of the Fall. Specifically how the gods who were parallel with each other and how they might be connected. When it comes to this video I find the possible connections fascinating and honestly would not mind to see GW incorporate some of it

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

I need to make a dedicated eldar gods video some day AND YEA ELRIC NEEDS MORE LOVE

[@PatPeez]

So, on the comparison between Tau'va and Tzeentch I think part of it could also be change through shared knowledge and cooperation, as opposed to Tzeentch who is all about secrets and schemes

[@MrMortull]

My natural answer to the question "what would you call the opposite of the Warp?" is, without thinking, "the Weft". It's a fabric term; warp refers to the main structural threads going in one direction and weft are the threads running at right-angles to the warp, giving structure to the "filler" fibres that weave between them. If there's a parallel-but-antithetical spiritual realm developing to mirror/balance the Warp it would fulfill the same function; holding Realspace together in some semblance of stability by providing a sort of tension in the Sea of Souls. The interplay between Warp and Weft could arrest or even retard the dissolution of Realspace so that stuff like the Great Rift won't happen again.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

OH THATS REALLY SMART!

[@MrMortull]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary Thank you. Another candidate for a "Lawful God" might be Imperious, the spirit of the Astronomican. I know you've already thrown up the Emperor as pretty much undeniably a God-in-waiting and that would double up on Human Gods, but Imperious is an interesting case. He's inarguable, immovable, single-minded beyond all reason and embodies unthinkable suffering for the sake of a greater cause (on account of basically being made up of the shreds of all those dying Psykers simultaneously having their souls eroded away on Terra)... you know, kinda a total flip opposite of Slaanesh' whole deal. She-Who-Thirsts/Him-Who-Suffers.

[@terranbrah]

This is great, and i believe this will be canon in a while, it will make sense i think, when super beings like the primarchs embrace faith

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Yeah it’s possible especially if 40k ever hits a narrative wall and needs a reboot down the line

[@seankuhn6633]

Weft! Warp and weft are the 2 directions of threads that make up fabric (longitudinal warp and horizontal weft) they are both required to weave the fabric of spacetime!

[@exsonic7407]

To be honest I think the Gods of order would be awesome, I would also put in the Eldar God of war but yes it would be fantastic, I'm imaging the emperor would need a significant catalyst to ascend mabye the golden throne fails and the deamons in the webway almost destroy terror or something like that but ya it would be awesome

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

The emperor’s status is a big knife edge in canon so we need to see what happens and I wouldn’t count Khaine because he was shattered so badly but yeah I feel like all of Terra might have to pass into the warp if the emperor ascends

[@darthrevan4933]

@@livefromtheblacklibraryit might be possible to keep Terra if it’s done in a way where the emperor basically closes the warp rift from the other side like he’s trapped halfway between the warp and reality now then something happens that pushes his spirit fully into the warp and he seals the rift while ascending to full godhood

[@MrAxe-bl1cu]

I got one for you: The Cipher: noun 1. a secret or disguised way of writing; a code. 2.a zero; a figure 0. verb 1. put (a message) into secret writing; encode. "he left two, as yet uncracked, ciphered messages for posthumous decoding" It further works because it would give credence to the idea that Cypher's mission is to kill the emperers body.

[@xavierhugo9269]

Me: *sneaking away to call the inquisition*

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

GOOD LUCK, I'M BEHIND 7 HERESIES

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

The 4th god of order might be the Omnissiah.

[@g.c.4824]

Hear me out, Big E opposite to Khorne, Isha opposite to Nurgle, T'au Va opposite Tzeentch, Laughing God opposite to Slannesh, this is the end times final battle rooster!!!

[@Ultravenom1]

The Man-emperor of Mankind is more than a God, he is a Man. Mankind will crush Chaos with iron will. Perturabo will betray the chaos gods. Iron within, Iron Without.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

I believe this now, Peter Turbo redemption arc when

[@memesofwarhemmer7076]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary iron warriors: when we feel like it so like never gotta put demons inside machines and kill empire fist for shit and giggles 😈

[@ernesielta]

Gods are cringe Peter turbo

[@orraklbenedict1832]

Makes a deal with the Necrons to use some of their tech so he can forge via his own new innate understanding of their tech that he can build his own (psudo?)tesseract vaults to, if not kill, then perma trap demons. It's probably gonna be some heretical meshing of Blackstone & Wraithbone... And Iron. For the symbolic and practical combination of Necron, Webway, and Human technology. Just an idea tho ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[@aequian]

I really enjoy your perspective and theories. Your presentation is also very good and clearly well thought out.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Thank you! People are often surprised to learn I don’t script my videos lol!

[@xavierhugo9269]

I'd agree I've really started to like this channel for a multitude of reasons and I think adding the gods of order in the way explained would be for the most part a w

[@scienceme9794]

8:06 The Emperor is 100% the anti-christ/the Beast described in Revelation, so it would make sense for the Emperor to be mimicking God. Additionally, your observations and theory would make sense, actually, as the anti-christ is supposed to go into the Temple and declare himself God, thus mirroring the Emperor going into the Warp and declaring himself a Chaos/Order god. While on the subject, 40k as a whole shares many similarities with the Time of Tribulations discussed in Revelation, and I'm pretty darned sure that 40k, at some point or another, was intended to be a sci-fi reimagining of it.

[@bgcvetan]

I believe isha is currently transformed into a tree. Also for the anti-warp i would say one of the following The linear The flatten The compact

[@DrakusLuthos]

I went with the Astra, or Astrum. Latin for “star”. It fits with the idea of Heaven being in the sky, and would fit with the Astronomicon. It fits with the celestial and light themes (astral light, psychic star, star child), and it also reminds me of the Hindu concept of the Astra, the divine weapons of the gods.

[@dudeboydudeboy-zj8kd]

regarding elric being an influence for law and chaos, michael moorcock got the idea from three hearts and three lions (written in 53 and expanded in 61) by poul anderson.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Ohhhh I have my homework then 👀

[@dudeboydudeboy-zj8kd]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary three hearts and three lions didn't just influenced Eric but also DnD! poul anderson also wrote the broken sword (published in 54 revised in 71) which also influenced moorcock in regards to cursed weapons.

[@Tom-ug7kt]

Chaos and Order are the two opposing Sides. To every Chaos God should exist the concept of a Order God. Hence the 8 pointed star. 4 for the classic chaos gods, the other 4 for the 4 order gods. Nurgle Isha Tzeentch T'au'va Khorne Emporer/Star Child Slaanesh to be revealed ?

[@secondbeamship]

I definitely agree that “Gods of Order” are a thing in all but name. The Emperor, Cegorach, Ynnead and Tau’va are the Gods of Order to counteract the four chaos gods.

[@paulroyal2177]

Moorcock had 15 parallel realms, and the Knight, Queen, and King of chaos each had 5 of these planes of existence. This arrangement was temporary, and the godkiller weapons were there to end the cycles.... It is fun to theory-craft, and I've heard some fun explanations. In some older short stories, the "being" that would become the Emperor lived in some primitive times. So someone surmised that the Emperor was Sigmar, and had made several kingdoms. But he was a fantastic oracle of the extreme future. He had knowledge of things that he shouldn't have, namely the Necron dragon imprisoned on Mars and the Webway of the Eldar (which he tried to replicate before Magnus interrupted him). The Emperor did not make the Golden Throne, but he made the Astronomicon. He forbade the humans from knowing about the chaos gods, as such knowledge would make their infernal might more powerful. Similarly, the Emperor forbade people from calling HIM a worship-worthy god, for other reasons. Maybe the Emperor was a god who left the warp, is now hiding from the other gods, and is waiting for the soul-eating Astronomicon to make him more powerful? Maybe the Warhammer fantasy novels were not about Terra at all, but of a world that was inside of the warp, but was thrown out into real space with the Eldar creation of the Eye of Terror? That would be consistent with fact that elves and orcs could not leave Terra and then much later run into the human species.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

That’s a really interesting theory! We are though show a vision of the Emperor’s childhood so I think if anything he’d be like a reincarnation of Sigmar. Maybe like how Age of Sigmar was a reset of the Warhammer Fantasy world (aka The World That Was), Sigmars world gives way to our own world, hence why the Emperor was born around 8000 BC

[@sirgallant5000]

I really like the idea of the Tau getting their own god. I can imagine some weak little warp being getting bullied and pushed around by the big four, unable to get any proper worshippers, cause the big guys already control all of that. So in desperation it attaches itself to the psychically pathetic Tau, much to the amusement of the others, who laugh at it feeding on scraps. But over time they grow and grow unchecked, ignored for being insignificant (both in the Immaterium and by the Imperials etc.), the scraps start to add up, other races with actual psychic potential start to join them, and suddenly (the entire history of the Tau being a blink of an eye to a chaos god) the little guy comes back with a vengeance, is an actual threat and looking to take them down a peg or two. I'm pulling all of this out of my ass, of course, but it's fun to think about.

[@matijasostojic4288]

I do like the idea of a minor warp entity taking a liking to the Tau and just attaching itself to their empire, watching them grow and unify not just amongst themselves but with other species aswell.

[@team3star.]

I think you should the antiwrap the star realm because of the old star child plotline

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Thats an interesting one!

[@benjaminconnor6640]

For potential names for this Anti-Warp, I have a few ideas. The Straits, as in a narrow passage and also to invoke an image of Linearity. Another concept that might be invoked is various realms of light from different religions, Nirvana, Alfheim, Heaven or the Palace of Lady Midday. In a blunt sense, you could refer to this Anti-Warp as the Realm of Forms. the Platonic Realm of Ideals. Polyhedra sounds like a good name for this. Dodecahedron, or just Hedron would be fine. And of course, last but not least, an old Chinese favorite. The Coterminous Web, or the Interconnective Web. The concept that All things influence all other things. Dynamic and balanced, flowing and not stopping. Changing both Fate and misfortune in equal measure.

[@male272]

Tropic Force. Opposite of Entropic, it is a force that sets things in order, or binds components together to create a sum of parts.

[@ianlippold1439]

A possible name for the "anti warp" could be empyrean, a quick google search gives the definition as relating to heaven or the sky, and as a noun, heaven, particularly the highest point of heaven. Likely what the imperium would see as the Emperor's realm.

[@orrorsaness5942]

Heaven, The Ammaterium, Empyrean, Empyrian. What do you think.

[@fancypantsmanface2445]

Emps trinity is throne corpse the father, Star child the son and Warp daddy the holy spirit. God sits the throne, Jesus is a separate and distinct splinter and the holy spirit is the omnipresent effect upon existence.

[@DeusExAngelo]

I mean if you want a better name than Antiwarp, how about The Weft? Weft and warp are old weaving terms and processes. The Warp is when the fabric is stretched out in a longtidunal and strict position. The Weft is the horizontal part function that binds to the warped farbic to weave a pattern. Thus new order being imposed on base chaos.

[@dumbidea1007]

I think he is more the god of dogma and blind faith than order

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

That may be true but I feel like that’s part of it

[@Lornext]

Emperor is not "anti warp" though, the warp is where the Gods come from, no matter what the Gods stand for.

[@secondbeamship]

I like the idea of The Hive Mind, The Votann and maybe the Ork God being also Gods of Order.

[@TheARguy-lh7xn]

the funny clown from magic-space highway smoke some of that heretical chus,and by mallah im have to get some

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Lemme getchu my Adeptus Plugius

[@TheShatteredLegion]

I could see the silent king doing something with the Emperor, both incredibly powerful material beings.

[@mechadryad4194]

What about null-warp? Since blanks are also a form of un-warp?

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Nulls are a bit of a wild card and I really didn't know where to fit them in here

[@rhett3185]

@@livefromtheblacklibrarythey’re not anti-warp… they’re anti-anti-warp!

[@BarelyDecentProduction]

No. only war and suffering Also, Tau got lucky that humans in 40k are dumb enough to believe their lies and now they get their own God (hope that God knows she owes humanity a whole lot for her existence)

[@udhavbhatia6424]

Well she is also a god of humanity and will protect all beings not just the tau

[@Human-163]

That connection between the dead fantasy gods and the gods of 40k is really interesting. Nice theory.

[@silent_stalker3687]

Why not call anti warp: Radiance Or when warp worlds are caught up in it we say it’s a Radiance Incursion or event.

[@Lord-Of-Bread]

The only issue I see is that cegorach doesn't really parallel Slaanesh in the same way the others do. That is unless they make him also a God of joy or something as an extention of his trickery. That way both he and Slaanesh are both gods of emotion. Also I'd like for there to be some neutral gods like Gork and Mork. I think the tyranid hive mind being a sort of god in its own right would be interesting. Finally C'tan fragments could become more important. especially the void dragon/machine god since the ad-mech are the only faction who's God doesn't really do anything. I can't see a way for it to be active that won't result in a massive civil war but if GW ever let's the imperium collapse it would be a missed opportunity to not have an independent void dragon worshipping ad-mech.

[@izonker]

I'd call it the 'weft" Which is the counterpart to warp in weaving, which it's kind of appropriate since it's the fabric of reality.

[@fakechemicals]

I like the theory but it occurred to me while watching your video that this could be Games Workshop making 40k's cosmology act more in line with Age of Sigmars. Gods of Order: Emperor, Isha, so on; Gods of Chaos: Huey, Dewey, Louie, and Brak; Gods of Destruction: Gork, Mork, Khiane?; Gods of Death: The C'tan. I can see them trying to fill in some gaps in these pantheons by elevating some mortals, I mean technically that's what they're doing with the Emporer and lets be honest what happens every time they make a Daemon Prince in any of the settings. I don't know if that would be good or bad though, won't make that value judgement. I just see it as a possibility.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Yeah I see that! It would take basically a reboot of the setting a la AoS like you said though

[@fakechemicals]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a reboot so much as a reorganization. If they're only making the Emperor a god in the same sense as the Chaos gods then that's already happening. Honestly I think GW has been watching PancreasNoWork and wanted to make the emps more like Sigmar.

[@ahmedshaharyarejaz9886]

The Emperor, Isha, Ynnead, Cegorach, Gork n Mork are the likeliest entities to eventually oppose the big 4.

[@Erebusdidnothingwrongish]

I hadn’t heard about the warp theory. Thank you for that. I think I agree with you. I don’t think you have overstepped or overreached. I’m fairly new to all this 40k stuff but when I like something I absorb it all. There is so much to learn that it’s more than worth my time. I don’t even play the game it just has great books, KZbin creators, and podcasts. Im going to subscribe, you have a good pace of speaking and emphasise the correct words at the right time. You sound like you have a passion. I don’t care if you are talking about doors if you are truly passionate because you can't fake it. I see people try in 40k as a KZbin business, for money alone. They burn out. Thank you kind Soul :)

[@orangensafttee4598]

waited on this since u announced it lets go

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

THANKS MAN! Hope you like it!

[@coledavies9654]

3:39 maybe anathema works for this term. It comes from a Catholic proclamation to restore order.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

I like this one!

[@catosicarius3027]

A cool thing is, daemons tend to call emps the anathema.

[@lathminster]

The opposite of the warp would be the weft. As in a tapestry.

[@snowgodlordofchimps345]

call it, energy Spirit.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Ehhhhhh I think it needs to be snappier

[@snowgodlordofchimps345]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary I got nothing

[@NerdEnthusiast]

So glad I came across this, even a year after it first came out. I’ve been obsessing recently over what the Warhammer 40K universe might look like in the wake of the Emperor’s death/ascension, and this video has given me a whole new idea as to how there could be four Gods of “Order” in direct opposition to the Chaos Gods, as well as more neutral deities caught somewhere in the middle. Now, I have a proposition that may or may not sound utterly heretical - the fourth God of Order, in direct opposition to Slaanesh, is the *Tyranid Hive Mind*. Think about it - Slaanesh represents excess, desire, and reckless societal abandon. In contrast, the Hive Mind is a true force of nature - one of base survival, bottomless hunger, and the inevitable consumption of all living things. It might seem weird to consider it a god in that right, but considering Gene-Stealer Cults exist and the Tyranid Hive Mind is considered vast enough to overshadow and consume most anything it comes into contact with in Warpspace, I think it fits quite nicely. Of course, there are also neutral deities who are somewhere in between both Order and Chaos. The Ork gods - arguably gods of extreme competition - and Cegorach fall into this category. There are also others you could argue for, but that’s a topic for another time. In any case, idk if you’ll ever see this, granted it’s a comment on a year-old video, but thanks so much for getting my storyteller brain going!

[@YourHighnessIV]

Sounds a bit stupid but flow energy and a opposite yet connect to warp as they're both sea related yet very different aspects

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Hmmmm I feel like there needs to be one snappy word like “Warp”

[@YourHighnessIV]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary agreed

[@YourHighnessIV]

It's late but after rewatching both videos and really considering if it's still up for debate I think with all gods taken into account I may for now at least be the power of Order

[@silverdust4197]

Wait , , Shadowsun IS CANON ! I thought it was a name TTS made for kitten's girlfriend

[@levigoodrich5276]

Why has no one brought up Vashtor. And before you say that "no he's a demon" the legion of the dammed are also referred to as demons. For one thing he fits fairly well as an opposite to Slanash in some ways, they are both about pushing things a bit to far. Also Vashtor is a very orderly individual, he doesn't lie trick or deceive. I also feel like having any of the eldar gods rise back to power kinda goes against the idea that the eldar are a doomed race, that their time in the sun is over.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

Because it is in vashtor interest to assist the chaos gods by essentially being their arms dealer.

[@rogerbrownreacts8528]

Could Horus be a #4?

[@dredgenauryx3382]

I really like this theory... Everything makes sense... even the Gegorach one... After all he is the laughing god and his followers are clowns... Performers... You could say that he takes Slaneesh's "appreciation for being alive" if you catch what I mean, and brings it forth in ordered plays and performances... The only problem I see with this that now I want this to happen and it never will because GW... or if it does it's 50 years or so in the future... because GW...

[@condrea593]

I really enjoy when you speak of other franchises and the writing and narrative of 40k, its something I havent thought much about, what exactly the setting means

[@vicstanfieldshire7754]

3:33 same principal in “Mechanicum” when they run the Akashic Reader. The scrap code introduced by Regulus could not travel through any of the channels that carried the Akashic energy touched.

[@oatlord]

The question is how Abnett will monkey wrench everything with Pious, cause you know he's giggling with delight at the anarchy he's gonna cause.

[@justicar5]

I'm not sure the Emperor has, but the idea of him the Ecclesiarchy worship has.

[@johndeere3486]

In weaving of fabrics, the opposite of the warp threads (that rub the length of the fabric) are the weft threads (that run the width of the fabric)

[@TheUnfortunateTraitor038]

3:42 How about Aetherbane, sounds stupid but very 40k to me

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Hmmmmm maybe!

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

The Emperor is the god of Conquest. Isha is the goddess of Rejuvenation/Growth/Healing. Tau'Va would be the goddess of Synergy, maybe? Cegorach being the trickster god is a good idea. Order needs that touch of silliness in order to outwit the enemy. I would love to see this become a thing, and I imagine the gods of Order would be somewhat like the Chaos gods, in that they're not unified, but will work together when necessary. Perhaps we'd even get a cult of Order Undivided, or even some sort of Warp Undivided that tried to worship all Eight gods at once, or as aspects of one being. Could make for some crazy plotlines and make the whole Psychic Awakening mean a whole lot more.

[@orrorsaness5942]

Order United

[@alexandremenard3833]

The Sanguinary worlds in the Sabbat Crusade from Dan Abnett's Gaunt's Ghosts has this position; they see the Emperor as one aspect of the Warp and venerate him. They just consider that the Imperium is mistaken in focusing on him.

[@JThunder1776]

Instead of anti warp it could be called the Fold. Folding something being more orderly than warping it. While being able to do similar things, just with a different intent behind it.

[@Cruentus]

My suggestion for a new name for the "Anti-Warp" is Elyseion or a variation of that word. Elyseion was in greek mythology the "isle of the blessed/blissful ones". Variations could be aeluseon or iluseon, elusion, ylusyon, etc.

[@liamwilliams8452]

One of the Siege Of Terra books talks about a trickster god too. Urda tells John Gramsticus that he he's playing the role of the trickster while the Emperor is the Saturnine Father. In alchemy, the Saturnine Father is symbolised as lead, it's hard, cold & rigid, but it's mutable; while the trickster is symbolised as the solvent. It's the trickster that changes the Saturnine Father.

[@hakim6933]

A pantheon to challenge the Chaos Gods would be awesome.

[@secondbeamship]

The difference between Cegorach and Tzeentch is that while both “lie” Cegorach has an ultimate purpose. Just like a joke is set up in advance. Chaos is just that, pointless violence.

[@dannyavarice]

So, I know I'm 5 months late to comment, but I think I have a suggestion on what to call "Anti-Warp theory". I'd call it Ex-Maledictum. I know, it's original (sarcasm), but it does sound like it would fit in the 40k setting.

[@Horace-8]

I find this theory very intriguing. Especially considering Isha, as the Eldar have some Celtic influence, and the Celtic Old beliefs were based around order vs chaos, that the Fomorians were the forces of destruction and change, and the Tuatha De Dannan were the force of creation and stability, as well with the Druids having their own philosophies built on these concepts. This division can be seen in the Craftworld Eldar and the Dark Eldar. As well the Eldar could be seen as a representation of the Aes Sídhe or 'Fey/Fair folk/fairies of Old Celtic belief. Isha herself could be a representation of Bridgit, the goddess of the hearth and healing(as well poetry), and this can be paralleled with Nurgle, as he could be seen as Balor, who was the leader of the Fomorians, and was a cyclops like being, which eye emmited fire or poison. The Taus culture to myself also seems to be influenced by Hinduism and Taoist philosophy.

[@TheMagnumDon]

A great name for The Anti-Warp would be "The Mend" as The Warp essentially looks like a Corrupted Form of The Materium calling The Anti-Warp "The Mend" would represent how it's the opposite

[@lukehendriech3812]

The Machine god is its own entity though it has been highly implied that the machine god is actually the largest Shard of the Void Dragon C'tan also the Cult Mechanincus is more analogous to Christianity The Machine God: Father of Knowledge The Omnissiah: Messenger of Knowledge (AKA the Emperor) The Motive Force: The source of the Machine spirits The Imperial Cult is more like Islam

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Hmmmm interesting! I should do a video on the Cult Mechanicus some time

[@BI-11y_TheStormTrooper]

Both are the same religion Christianity and Islam.

[@archeogeek315]

Finally someone else who noticed the obvious Trinity parallels.

[@akumaking1]

Question: Can the C’Tan eat Warp entities?

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

OH FUCK MAYBE

[@archeogeek315]

Well since they eat souls I think they can eat warp entities just like demons can eat material being.

[@ravenRedwake]

Horus as a Daemon Primarch with all the marks would be like…Super Belakor.

[@aalhard]

That wasn't your dad, the chaos gods are warping the path to production. Fight it for the emperor!

[@Horace-8]

- As for a name for this proposed realm, I think perhaps Aetherus could be fitting. The Aether was an old concept of the Greeks, who described space as the heavenly realm(this was before chrisrianity mind you), it was said to be made of light, and was what separated the realm of earth from the gods. Even when times changed into the modern age, and the theory of the aether was discounted by science, some have suggested that dark matter is this concept in reality. Something to ponder.

[@bunkydoes8048]

Check it out, in fabrics the warp is the vertical threads. The weft is the horizontal threads. Without a weft your shirt is just a lot of tiny tassels.