Golden Sun: Dark Dawn - The Wrong Game At the Wrong Time.

Djinn are for slaying monsters Djinn are for slaying monsters DJINN ARE FOR SLAYING MONSTERS
This is the end of the road, folks. This is the end of the Golden Sun retrospective. Join me as I take a look at what many consider to be the weakest game in the series.

[@shadowphantom2]

I do feel remaking Golden Sun 1 and 2 as a single game, with some more threads to tie into Dark Dawn’s scenario, might be the best approach to reviving the series. That way, they get a shot at remaking Dark Dawn and finding ways to address the negatives or flesh out the characters more too.

[@karn75]

Well they 1st is going to be part of the Switch GBA expansion pass eventually as is the first Fire Emblem that came to the US.

[@Tikky503]

No, no. No. Remake golden sun 1 and 2 into a single game, sure. But this furry joke of a game should have nothing to do with it

[@XXXXX8]

@@Tikky503 cry more, nerd. I'd love to see the whole trilogy remade.

[@Farron6]

That's a great idea, perhaps expand on the relationships between the characters and let us hear Isaacs and Felixs opinions more when we actually play as them

[@0potion]

​@@Tikky503I'm old enough to have actually played every single game in the series in order. And I feel like you're crapping on this game A little bit too hard. If they actually did or you make it the first 2 and then did a good remake of this one they could retool it to actually fit into the story properly and be fun to play.

[@gargonovich]

I think the problem with Dark Dawn's writing is exemplified pretty early on. Most RPGs let you skip tutorials if you already know how something works, and that's not new, the tutorial stuff in Chrono Trigger and FF6 is completely optional. So what happens in Dark Dawn? "Hey, do you remember how to use Djinn?" _Having played the other games, I do, so I select Yes._ "That's great, WE'RE DOING THE WHOLE TUTORIAL ANYWAY." I don't think it's just that the dialog is long. I love the Trails games, but to call them dialog-heavy would be an understatement. The difference is that a lot happens in those dialogs, they usually serve a purpose, whereas Golden Sun repeats itself over and over until you just want to shout, "I GET IT!" at the system. The game just has no respect for the player's time. I'd love to see the Golden Sun games come back as remasters leading to a sequel, but the scripts need to be rewritten by somebody who's at least _heard_ of brevity.

[@-Cetus-]

Big issue was its massive identity crisis. It had a plot set up in the first half that swapped to something completely different partway through, in addition to pulling a bunch of lost ruins out of its ass that were nowhere to be seen in the first 2 games. It had a huge glossary to understand the world, but you had to actively search for the words to it and could miss out on some due to cutoffs, something that never existed in the first 2 games. It brought back old characters, as well as introducing a new cast and giving you 8 characters over the course of a game that felt roughly as long as either of the first 2 titles, so no one really felt that fleshed out. It kept all the old summons and a lot of old weapons and even just 1 new summon that was a nod to an old commercial, but it also tried to introduce a handful of new psynergy for puzzles and new weapon types. It entirely felt like they didn't know what direction they wanted to take the new game and just threw a bunch of ideas together hoping it'd get traction.

[@louliwanag6287]

Golden Sun is the series that is so underrated but has a solid following. It's really frustrating that years gone by and we there still no indication of a reboot/remake/sequel of this fantastic series that is part of my childhood.

[@kevster6452]

It’s underrated for a very clear reason, 95 percent of the game is literally solving puzzles…

[@DH-Dorado-Horizonte]

So you want more action??​@@kevster6452

[@haydenbennett3547]

Golden Sun: The Lost Age DID have a means of Fast Travel but it wasnt until late game when you got the Teleport Lapis. Using Teleport on the world map would let you warp to any town or village you visited.

[@omgxab2223]

All the flying I did pre-endgame and I'm JUST NOW finding this out. 😂😂

[@Nighttale233]

To be fair it was released too late in the ds cycle, especially a month or so before the 3ds came out. Only pokemon broke into the millions because it's pokemon.

[@Vandalieu]

Another issue it had is that your following a brand new set of characters, which people tend to complain about how your no longer following the old one's. For example both Raiden from MG and Nero from DMC were complained heavily about when they came along and were really only rescued when Raiden became a cyborg ninja and the DMC remake turned out to be trash causing people to look back more favorably on them. It also doesn't help how long it took for the game to even come out at which time only the most hard-core of fans would have even cared about it. So in conclusion the 8 years it took for Dark Dawn to come out after Lost Age causing only the most hard-core fans of the previous 2 games to have any actual interest in it, plus the fact that you are following completely brand new characters instead of the ones you already got attached too meaning many old time fans probably never bothered getting the game because they wanted to follow the old characters, combined with ir being released at the very end of the DS's life cycle shortly before the 3DS meaning focus was mostly on the new system and game's that were just released on it, is what mostly contributed to Dark Dawn's low sales.

[@Nighttale233]

Still broke 500-700 k, which is more than fire emblem on ds. With the right push and timing Golden Sun will do magnificent numbers.

[@Evilriku13]

afaik GS3 was released in 2010, the 3DS was a 2011 thing. It's still late, but not like "too late". Maybe that's just me, because Pokemon BW2 suffered a similiar fate.

[@angelsaucedo2231]

doesnt really matter considering the 3ds could play it as well...?? Its not like 3ds had an amazing catalog on release it was still an option for many.

[@Aleph3575]

I would say that the biggest problem with Dark Dawn is that it came out 8 fucking years after Lost Age, well after many of us fans who played the series when it first came out had given up on the idea of a sequel, as a sequel to a game that had wrapped its story up reasonably well and only had a couple of things to even base a sequel off of (one of which, What Happened to Alex, is basically the endgame plot device of this game), as a game with almost nothing to do with the original game, and most of the areas aren't even named the same, featuring almost none of the characters from the original, and the characters that were featured from the original weren't exactly fan favorites barring Isaac who's around for like 10 mins. And the game just gives you a bunch of "They disappeared forever" bs for characters like Felix and Sheba.

[@jordanflynn2415]

From my understanding the Tuaparang we see in the opening was over Konpa Ruins not Mount Aleph, that's why we see pods being sent down in the opening and we see the three warriors in them, same as when they were deployed in the Apollo Lens. Mount Aleph is also turned to a golden colour after the golden sun happens, while Konpa Ruins are normal rocks and the we see a normal mountain in the opening again. Loved the video and the reference to Cisp

[@jamestonbellajo]

Had no idea this video was coming. I just watched your Lost Age video yesterday so the timing is perfect.

[@GenmaTheSamurai]

Well said at the end there. Ngl, my feelings on this game are....Still complicated to this day. But I know when it came out I was hyped playing it, but as the years went on this kind of became inseparable from Camelot's current situation. I still prefer GS2 in pretty much every single way, but man I love a lot of what this game did and it breaks my heart they never got to explore this series. As someone that got into the Trails series in 2019 I kind of wish Camelot has the same opportunity as Falcom. Because the lead creative for those games also happens to be the company president, so no bad sales are going to stop the games. But at the end of the day nothing mixes puzzles and dungeons like GS does. GS2 will always be my favorite RPG, and that is something that will never change.

[@catrinastars]

Did you mean the tales series?because I have no idea what you mean by trials.

[@Aleph3575]

@@catrinastars The Trails series (so games like Trails of Cold Steel, Azure Skies, etc) is a more modern JRPG series that I think is PC only. Although the Tales series is still around, with Arise getting pretty decent reviews I believe.

[@GenmaTheSamurai]

@@catrinastars so Tales of and Trails are two different series. Trails is a series with one huge ongoing plot-line unlike Tales of. The creator of the series runs the company so it's not at the whim of a corporate overlords like Nintendo so even with their niche status they are 10 games in. Makes me sad about GS' situation.

[@sadscientisthououinkyouma1867]

Unfortunately the trade-off is that for some god-forsaken reason NISA handles the localizations, though I suppose Camelot wouldn't fair much better if GS4 was ever to exist. Nintendo's latter-day localizations almost make me yearn for the bad localizations of the Wii era.

[@KenMeiSLG]

I've loved this game ever since I played it back in 2010, even though I recognise its shortcomings. Golden Sun is a franchise I've actually known since its beginning, thanks to a cousin who showed us the first game back in 2002. I can't thank him enough for that, and I've loved playing every of the games, even though the pace can sometimes be gruelling. Dark Dawn holds a special place in my heart, though, because it was the game I was playing when I learned about my father's death. I vividly remember the phone call, as I was doing the quest on the first island right after the activation of the Luna Tower. Thinking about it, it matched another death in the game... And to this day, each time I play Dark Dawn again, I just can't help but feel the strongest of empathy towards Eoleo. The grief of loss... And the determination, the will of living. I thankfully don't need any kind of revenge, but it helps me to mourn and get back on my feet afterwards. ... But yeah, the roadblocks sucked.

[@hallows2729]

Pretty sure at least Jenna and Ivan were going to be in number 4. The entire point of repairing that weird flying device was to go down to the next world pancake layer to visit them for some reason and I'm almost positive that they were trying to do the same thing as the first two games where they keep part of the world out of reach until the next game. Also one slight edit. The psynergy vortexes are not "Mourning Moons" The Mourning moon was an event of a particularly massive psynergy vortex that happened sometime after the golden sun rose and the present day, so within the last 30 years, It was large enough to make the history books, which is probably why that really big one was where dark dawn left us on a cliffhanger, it was poorly executed but this information is found in the encyclopedia.

[@JustSomePasserby]

The best part of the story of the first two Golden Sun games (originally meant to be one story) is that they present the player with a sense of moral ambiguity. *spoilers to follow* The story is designed so that while you are playing the second game, you see the events and antagonists of the first game in a new light. Is it worth causing disasters on a global scale, killing innocents for the sake of preventing an even worse outcome? The whole package is a story that invites introspection into your own morality. In Dark Dawn, the antagonists are from an unseen "evil empire." They show up constantly just to antagonize you. They cause global-scale disasters purely for the sake of world conquest. And they display levels of over-the-top evilness usually reserved for Saturday morning cartoon villains. The level of the story is a notable step downwards in the third game. The puzzles are nice, though.

[@ManOutofTime913]

Yeah, you should play the Breath of Fire series. It has a lot of the same qualities that Golden Sun has with dungeons that are more exploration focused , your party having abilities that let you interact with the world, very unique scenarios for the locations you visit, (in the sequels) a high amount of customization for your party members allowing for unique strategies, etc. The only thing they don't really have in common is Breath of Fire is not particularly open-ended. There are a number of side activities you can do at any given time, but you're always pushing forward to one main story objective.

[@teddychu1177]

I wouldn't mind a crossover between the two >:)

[@ManOutofTime913]

@@teddychu1177 Well, with Golden Sun now having beastmen, it wouldn't be out of left field.

[@ElecManEXE]

As much as I'd love a remake of the first two games with modern hardware, I'm not sure that'd really be the best way for Camelot to scratch that RPG itch if they do indeed still have it. I have to imagine they want to create a new game with a new story and not just remake an old game. Don't really get much of a creative output with just a rerelease, ya know? It'd be good practice in terms of engine and mechanics and such, sure, but if what they want is to tell a story then less ideal. I'd be perfectly fine with them making a sequel to Dark Dawn even over a decade later. Because DD did have a lot of interesting ideas, and the thing with it feeling kind of all over the place and inconsequential actually is an advantage to getting a sequel in a way. It means that you could fairly easily summarize Dark Dawn within a theoretical sequel and even people who never played it wouldn't really be all that lost. Just any Golden Sun would be amazing at this point though. Remake, sequel, reboot, whatever. Just keep the core mechanics and general lore and hit me with some GS goodness. I do agree it should remain turn-based since that's what it was known for (and I hate the idea that turn-based games are archaic and real time is just better) though even an action RPG would probably be great if done right.

[@Grey_Codex_gaming]

this was such a heartbreaking moment of missed potential, i would love to see these games get rebuilt for the switch, partly because i would just love to play these games again (and maybe this time with a difficulty slider) and being able to give gsdd another shot as a sequel, and not a start from the beginning type story as the retread aspect if it is i think what hurt it the most. the biggest thing that I was hoping to see in a gs4 would be that each element would be given a light or dark aspect, which would have given reason for the 2 full parties, and more reason to mix and match them around karis is jupiter/light, while sveta is jupiter/dark, etc. (also just more sveta, she was probably my favorite new character amiti just felt too underutilized story wise)

[@hakim6933]

Golden Sun needs a full pixel art remake for the first 2 games

[@MiturGrunge]

I'd prefer the same treatment the FF7 got to be honest, but that would require some ball from Nintendo.

[@shameblame4865]

They spend 50% of the game looking for a feather and when they find it, they just forget they were looking for it.

[@librathebeautifulwarmonk1283]

This was my introduction to the series. A shame it's so disliked. Sveta is one of my favorite female characters

[@andresmarrero8666]

Same for me. I played through the game multiple times which isn't a common occurrence.

[@FF-tp7qs]

I played through it twice and grinded all the characters to max level I wish they made a 4th game so we can finally kick Alex's ass

[@mr.m1785]

I seriously enjoyed it. Itd be great to get more.

[@Evilriku13]

@@FF-tp7qs I dont think Alex will be the main baddie. I feel like he is an antihero because he acts too.. helpful for that regard. I have some theories as to why but I posted them around and its exhausting to reexplain all the builtup since GS1 for GS4. Just keep in mind that Weyard might have a 2nd world to it, basically where the Gaia Falls end/flow to that is basically a shadow counterpart to what is already seen through the first three games.

[@FF-tp7qs]

@@Evilriku13 I still want to punch him, even if that is true.

[@TryAgain9999]

Golden sun 1 and 2 were really great, especially TLA. There are many things i could ask in a remake. New difficult like 'very hard' or 'impossible', because you can feel how legendary is a bossfight when it's a real challenge. Tla was very hard the first time i played it, until i re-played it with the knowledge of all djinn location, and when you have all djinns you can get before a bossfight, then you can literally destroy the bosses. So a new extra difficult that is balanced for players who understand well the mechanics of its gameplay can be a new and smarter way to prolong the game's longevity. I mean, the modality presented in TLA are very good for newbies. What a new modality should have: 1)not just more health and damage; 2)it needs a more "studied" enemies, with better strategies and better moves, or even more turns for them, so they can be a challenge to the player who have all weapons, giving new surprises too. Tla needed a more difficult for the random battles and "maybe" even a more action in dungeons, with traps that can damage the party and that are timed more tightly, so you got to learn some skills to go through some dungeon. I take for example the Aqua Rock dungeon, it's a beautiful dungeon, but it's like random battle are useless. Monsters don't have good drops and they were a bit strong only when i played the game in hard-mode, using only items to heal and psynergy to attack, with a djinns limit of 0 for each character, using ONLY equipments that rise elemental power and resistance and healing only in battle. (i was trying to beat the game with only psynergy attacks, lol). Only foolish limitations could make Aqua Rock hard and only a kid who never played a videogame can have a bit of difficult in Aqua Rock. I see the worst problem in cure mechanic, because it give you too much healing options, so you never lose even in the long run, because of infinite healing process. (cure your psynergy with infinite djinn recharge, so you can use powerful psynergy to heal characters.) The healing psynergys should have some limitations, like greater costs, lesser healing power or a recharge limit. Too complicated for me, maybe not that much for a smart developer. Who knows? But Aqua Rock isn't the only simple dungeon, in normal as in hard, there are many other in the game. There is another aspect of TLA i want to show, it's the loot of monsters. Some equipment can be obtained only killing certain monsters in certain spaces of certain dungeons. These equipments are in certain cases the strongest for elementar powers, and together can potentially raise 1 elemental power to it's max level before a battle, that is 200 points. (summon explodes with 200). The problem is that the game doesn't give you any chance to know what monster give you that equip-piece, nor it say something of the existence of that equip-piece. Furthermore, even when you know all, you have to farm for hours and hours (and hours) to have those equipments as you need. It's like impossible to know these super secret information without a wiki-guide. This is unbearable too for a game that hasn't an extra difficult. Having all djinns and all these equipments can give you the chance to destroy at low level the final superboss dullahan, rushing all the summons, which is fun because of how hard and foolish is having all the gears, but then you want more challenge. The loot part need to be more smooth with percentages and the game should give some (even if super secret) hint to understand where to go and/or what monster kill. A bestiary could help too. We're talking about the best gears in the firts 2 games. It's a waste that most GoldenSun players don't know these pieces exist. The game is beautiful too for all the glitches it have that can be used, but that is another story... Maybe some glitch can still be in remakes... Too much of a request? I see so much potential in a remake of each game, but i fear that they could be like dark dawn. A really bad problem i see in dark dawn is how much is slow. Everything you do is slower than the 2 pre-games, particularly the psynergy cast out-of-battle. In the gba games you can scroll in all the menus super fast, i think this is more reasonable for a turn-based rpg and it's very important too. Every interaction are too slow. The second problem is the bombardment of information from the start to the end, it's like you're studing something every second, it's not well balanced with the rhythm of its gameplay. The other issues pointed out in the video are valid too, the linearity and the 'you can't go back' are frustrating for a game with much more complexity in dungeons. If you lost some djinn surely you don't want to restart the game, losing all data, and surely you don't want to look a wiki-guide to know how go through these development-mystakes from the start. And of course i hate Tyrell, he's the embodiment of cringe with red-hair. I don't like the use of Alex as antagonist, for me they have gone too far, and he lost his main behavior, like manipulate everyone trying to being nice and using motivations to seem not selfish even when he make selfish actions. In tla, mindreading him, we can see that he truly want to help Mia in Jupiter Lighthouse, but at same time he doesn't act to help her because he fear Agatio and Karst reaction. His attempts to crown his dreams, meanwhile being coward and cold, and at the same time a bit empathic in thinking and acting, are the most interesting points of his character. He's not a hero, nor he's a psychopath, he's selfish but have more realistical human struggles. In dark dawn is too much a typical shallow antagonistic. I know my english is repetitive, however, I hope it can be at least understandable. Anyway, i think a new golden sun game can be based on the lore of the ancients who sealed the alchemy. We don't have to retake the previous games story, even if it would be appreciated.

[@cgoldbac]

Golden Sun, in 2023!?

[@Jesus_Offical]

Sadly not

[@TheHeavieKiwie]

Sorry. Better luck next time. They renewed it's license though..

[@TheHeavieKiwie]

​@@Jesus_OfficalJesus, you should try reaching out to the Camelot devs and higher ups!

[@recht_voor_zijn_raap5506]

Well. You got your wish.

[@mysterroniouscherry326]

I do appreciate the tutorials tho. I didn't give myself a chance to play the previous GS games, so this was my first GS game I played.

[@byronsmothers8064]

How I'd team build for a potential part two for DD: Takeru for the Venus adept, a Proxian Mars adept, Noelle as the Mercury adept, and a daughter of Sheba (and Felix?) as the Jupiter adept & silent protagonist. Their journey being a reverse of the lost age to get from the frozen north all the way back to Sol sanctum.

[@Haedox]

LETS GOOOOO

[@animatorbroman3710]

This video is another Ryrule W

[@chaseperkins6949]

Im in the minority i guess. I loved this game as well as 1 and 2

[@catrinastars]

No your not, I loved it so much I played through it twice. I have to really like the story for me to do that because usually I'm bored after the first play through.😁

[@ManOutofTime913]

Yeah, I think a lot of people are too hard on it. Like, yes the major arc of the story is incomplete, but this game still sets up a plot and brings it to completion moreso than the first Golden Sun even. The villains have you activate the Alchemy Dynamo and then you stop it at the end. That is a closed thread. Plus, the characters are a lot more distinct in personality and their interactions are a stronger than the original two games, imo. Plus, I like that you can infer more about the original two parties from how their children ended up. I actually didn't mind the fact that the towns didn't have major events going on in the first two thirds of the game either as it fits the story. As far as everyone knows, the world is at peace and has been for the last thirty years. It makes sense that there are only minor problems (with the exception of Athuay being under siege) until you hit the major catastrophe at Belinsk. Some more refinements to the gameplay systems and less aggressive handholding would have gone a long way towards improving everyone's opinion of it. That, and not predicating the entire story on Garett's son being an idiot.

[@diosnika9218]

​@@ManOutofTime913it's crazy how much ppl barely acknowledge the fact that these characters have more personality than the og games. Almost every town feels unique whereas in the old games so many towns felt like its there to just take up space or hold a djinn.

[@TerraBlacc1]

The one thing I didn't like about Dark Dawn was that while it set up so many things, it very much did nothing with it and left all of its potential on the table making it a very forgettable entry. The most memorable thing about the game to me was actually the Dullahan. He's very much the same Dullahan as he always was and is still a pain to fight. I lost to him twice and the time when I beat him, I remember the impending dread of everyone in the party being dead, but Matthew, who's low pp from trying to revive everyone, but consistently watching everyone revived instead be immediately struck down by Formina Sage until he's the only one left with no chance to bring back anyone else. When I won, I didn't think the fight was anywhere near over and thought I was definitely going to die, but the Dullahan fell to a chance Megiddo. It was the only time I ever remember playing any of these games and being mildly stressed and questioning what can I do.

[@WeyardWiz]

Geez I wonder why...maybe because goldensun4 hasn't been made to leverage those points just like TLA was the 2nd part of the 2st goldensun that setup all the points?

[@AstralFireIX]

@@WeyardWiz The original Golden Sun felt like a complete chapter in an on-going story. Dark Dawn felt like you were just constantly waiting for the story to actually begin and it finally does and then the game's over.

[@diosnika9218]

​@AstralFireIX in what way was the first game complete? You achieve zero objectives and the game just ends while you sail out.

[@AstralFireIX]

@@diosnika9218 It is a complete chapter because it is coherent. You do not achieve any of your original goals but those original goals never go far from your mind, they're guiding the narrative, and the detours are clear. Dark Dawn throws a lot of concepts at you fast, never makes any of the ones it actually spends any time on compelling, and loses energy. If Golden Sun had literally anything going for its writing but simple and straightforward ideas, it could maybe get away with the kind of plot shuffle DD wants to pull off, but it doesn't so it can't

[@TerraBlacc1]

@@diosnika9218 Golden Sun ends with Issac and crew sailing off, leaving the player waiting for something new and nothing introduced in the game is left unexplained. Dark Dawn takes a departure there, it introduces a lot of new things and doesn't explain them, and that's not mentioning the other half of the cast that is scarcely mentioned throughout the game. When the game ends, the player isn't left waiting for something new, they're waiting for the conclusion of old things, and in my case, those were mostly things introduced in Dark Dawn or story elements I expected to receive at some point in the story that just weren't delivered... In the end, being intentionally unfinished, and leaving so many points open ended, it isn't gripping in the ways the first two games are. I think it's fair to say it seemed more like an entry point to the series than it did book three of the series.

[@Mnemoniforma9.00]

7:25 Finally, somebody gets it about Sveta. Also, having Belinsk citizens who turned gold and gained light Psynergy from the Apollo Cannon firing as just NPCs rather than playable characters was an outright crime.

[@mr.m1785]

I dont recall that?

[@Mnemoniforma9.00]

@@mr.m1785 You gotta talk w/ the NPCs around town after beating the final boss before you leave for the ending. I can imagine why some people would miss it

[@mr.m1785]

@@Mnemoniforma9.00 Ohh. I dont recall much, sadly.

[@caosisaac]

Sveta is my favorite character in all 3 games. Such concept, great design, unique weapons noone else used, and the only party member that has ever actually walked around with you outside of a cutscene. I always stacked her up with earth djinn to unlocj her unique scrapper class line so i could use her werewolf skills in base form.

[@mr.m1785]

@@caosisaac I don't think I ever really tried out different classes for her tbh. I was mostly stuck on the idea from TLA that there was a "best" Djinn setup for each element. She is definitely a fave though. I need to replay the games, but don't want to overwrite my old saves.

[@VOAN]

The reason why these games had in-game tutorials was so to make up for the lack of physical manuals. Half way through the DS lifespan the industry had stopped producing manuals with their game in favor of in-game tutorials.

[@GoldenSunAlex]

I still believe we'll get a 4th Golden Sun game. With a LOT of content creators making videos about it at the moment, hope is kept alive.

[@silentedict4256]

Good analysis. I was/am a HUGE Golden Sun fan. I played the first game when it came out and I was in my early teens and was blown away. The second one, while containing some frustrations, just cemented that idea. It would not be an exaggeration to say that GS was the series I mentally compared every new RPG to for the next decade and a half. GS Dark Dawn was just... Meh. It was so forgettable. While the story of the first two was nothing to write home about, it still had its moments and was still consistent in the goals it had and you knew what you needed to do. I can remember many scenarios from 20 years ago. DD, I could barely remember anything. I agree, it had a lot of potential, but it needed two or three more scenario rewrites before release. I would love to see them return to the series. A remake of the first two would be splendid, and after that maybe return to DD, but do so in a way that fleshes it out like the first two. Lost Age brought context to the actions of the antagonists from the first game, maybe open DD 2 with some hidden enemy who was controlling the PCs from the behind the scenes for some nefarious purpose. Use that as the explanation as to why the first game was so, "scattered". The PCs were being used. Then spend DD 2 unraveling the mystery. Just a thought. Good essay!

[@hyperdz8507]

I subscribed for this

[@TRDGE]

As a huge fan of the first two games, Dark Dawn fell really flat. To this day, despite not gaming too much anymore, I look forward to seeing a 4th chapter in the Golden Sun series and will buy whatever console/ system they decide to put it on.

[@scizorzzz]

GS 1 & 2 also had a sharper, faster, and more visceral presentation to them. Battles were lightning fast, animations were snappy and quick and the sound effects made me think the GBA speaker was going to explode. In DD everything about the presentation was... softened too much, slowed down, or smoothed over. I think this difference is a key reason why DD didn't live up to the originals. Game presentation and visual response goes a long way to make a game feel amazing to play.

[@orlof507]

At this point I think the path for the series is a remake of the first two games, hopefully combined in one.

[@ForeignWerewolf]

Cant wait for another Golden Sun Video! Yours are highest quality! :)

[@johntracy72]

I really would love to see a Golden Sun 4 from Camelot.

[@agroah7236]

for your work you deserve more than just my follower buddy ^^

[@lyr5641]

This game will always be a nostalgic masterpiece to me, as a young kid a the time of release it kinda spoke to me. It hurts to see looking back that so many things weren't to par.

[@yeahman6907]

Dude that boss theme is probably one of my favorite tracks in the entire game. Why do so many people dislike it?

[@LIPresume]

I subscribed bc of the way you said HEY at the start of the video

[@ryker2313]

1st two games. Masterpieces. Dark Dawn was named appropriately because it spelled out a dark future for Golden Sun. It was trash.

[@tomis21034]

I really hope there's a remake or sequel to Golden Sun I just need more.

[@gianmariaroza6084]

The only thing i HATE was the obnoxious and boring class system. Nothing new, nothing extraordinary and already a weak point of the other two games. But DD made some of my dreams reality: Djinni each having a unique aesthetics, amazing new Alchemy lore, beautiful new 3d puzzles.

[@GoldenSunAlex]

Uh...What? The class system is considered unique and one of the highest points for the series as a whole.

[@lukedelameter7961]

@@GoldenSunAlex Something can be unique and bad at the same time. I honestly felt the need to never play around with the class system, because no matter the combination, it always felt severely weaker than when I just loaded all of the djinn with the characters that had the same element.

[@gianmariaroza6084]

@@GoldenSunAlex Never played Bravely Default/Second, Final Fantasy V, Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre, etc ? Each class has passives, reactions, skills, bonuses, different aesthetics etc... Unique to their classes and diversified for each. Golden Sun "class" system is really a turndown, barren and underdeveloped and any fan would say it. I hope you are talking more for ignorance than delusional beliefs.

[@GoldenSunAlex]

@@lukedelameter7961 If you don't know what you're doing, that's the case, yes. The tri element class systems are far more powerful that base ones.

[@GoldenSunAlex]

@@gianmariaroza6084 Yes, I've played BD, Second, BD2 etc. What you need to remember is this was over 20 years ago on limited hardwear.

[@broken1394]

I think if they remastered the first 3 games for the Switch,it could generate enough interest to go ahead and make no. 4. The og GS was my first ever rpg that i played to the end, so it's a monolith game in my mind.

[@lanteanboy]

Im pleasantly surprised to see Nostalgia and Radiant Historia as other RPG examples for what they did graphics-wise

[@suronia1]

I feel like dragonquest XI Did fast travel pretty well. It's blocked if there's a story event going on while still in the area and usually only happens after a boss battle.

[@niconeitorrr]

If camelot ever goes back to golden sun, they should 100% make dark dawn non canon

[@Rpodnee]

The visuals were definitely a big weak point for me. I much preferred the pixel art of the first 2 games.

[@raina1848]

I think you did a very good job reviewing this game. You explained the good and bad points very well with the latter not sounding like a hate letter either. Tbh, I'm like you in that I also got Dark Dawn first before I even knew the prequels existed and enjoyed it a lot, but not as much the first two. For me, the only real frustrations were the points of no return and the cliffhanger. And it's not just the ending being a cliffhanger either. They mention somewhere during Hime's sleep that she had said that Issac was in danger.

[@akiovzz1540]

i love this game. still playing it today while giving myself new handicaps in gameplay each time i complete it

[@CottidaeSEA]

My biggest issues with Dark Dawn were the ending and overly lengthy dialogues that didn't contribute much to either world or character building. It was just fluff.

[@MegaKillerwolf123]

Remaking Dark Dawn from scratch would be best to get the 4th entry, and as for 1 and 2 keep the story mostly in tact with subtle hints to Dark Dawns upcoming story with the Dark Adepts but add a bit different stuff/added content

[@Rognik]

One thing I really liked about Dark Dawn and I don't know if Lost Ages did this, but if your lead party died, the backup party would step forward automatically. I didn't party wipe often, but the one time I did, I was glad that it wasn't like most JRPGs and said "lead party is dead, game over."

[@caosisaac]

The lost age did do this. Was such a great feature more rpgs with backup party characters like ffx would have benefitted from having.

[@caosisaac]

I disagree with your thoughts on the towns here. One of my favorite aspects of this game was interacting with the towns. Activating the alchemy well and alchemy forge and bringing life back to the region on top of ensuring the towns they were around survived after the eclipse took place really made me feel we were impacting the world; a small glimmer of hope we were responsible for after the disaster with the eclipse.

[@drakenstoc4885]

Concerning fast travel: They didn't need to make it a "warp". It could be implied that they simply walked/used whatever form of transportation (like the boat) to automatically go wherever it is you are fast traveling to. Thus, if the location you want to go to is blocked off for some reason, the option to fast travel to that specific location would be greyed out in the fast travel menu. One example of some games using this kind of method for fast travel is the Trails of Cold Steel series, and it works just fine there. Anyways, I played this game again last year (it was my second playthrough, in fact - the first playthrough being when it originally released). Although I'm still disappointed with what we got, I have to admit that it was better than I remember it being. The cliffhanger ending sucks though. >_>

[@boo-rian2717]

Golden sun video with references to Xenoblade and Tales of? You sir just earned yourself a like!

[@LeeZard27]

Mia, Himi and Sveta are my favorite female characters across the series. As for the Males, Amiti, Felix and Ivan.

[@gamer3ed484]

Dark Dawn is one of the most memorable moments in my life. When I was roughly 7 or so, my uncle gave me his Silver GBA, with Golden Sun. I’m not the biggest RPG fan, but I only had Golden Sun, so I figured I’d play it as much as I could. I fell in love with the game, and got Lost Age for my next birthday. Even though I was really little, I have still to this day never been more hyped for a game than I was for Dark Dawn. I consumed every single trailer I could for the game, and begged my mom to buy me the game on launch day in exchange for getting one less Christmas present than my other siblings. It’s deeply flawed, but I loved it so so much. It’s such a niche game, but because of that, I had never felt more seen and appreciated with a game release. It’s been 13 years since then and I don’t really have much hope for Golden Sun to come back, but it would probably be the only thing that could dethrone the buildup to Dark Dawn as my favorite game release.

[@jogymogy3691]

The story is really it's greatest weakpoint. Story should have been 200 years after TLA so all the changes in the world make sense.

[@G-DORA]

Like other people have stated, personally, I feel it wouldn't make much sense to continue on with the threads that DD set up, so I think their 2 best approaches for the next game are either: 1. A remake of 1 and 2, but as a single game, with extra content like fast travel, towns from DD, new dungeons, new towns altogether, and locations to fill the dead spots in the world, stuff like that. And potentially even a mode after beating the game that reverses the roles, so you see Felix's perspective at the beginning, and then follow Isaac's party after Venus Lighthouse. That'd be so cool, but a lot of work admittedly. 2. A Dark Dawn reboot. I don't know if they should keep some ideas, like keep the characters, towns, state of the world or whatnot from DD but make the story a more focused and cohesive, and maybe bring back even more characters from the first two games, or just start from scratch entirely, but it needs a makeover at the very least.

[@caosisaac]

Dark dawn is such a mixed bag for me. It has so many things that make it my favorite among the golden sun games but so much that holds it back and makes it the worst. For the most part i didnt like the main cast. Matthew was just isaac lite, tyrell was the worst, karis was like jenna but without jenna's charms. Rief was the best out of the 4 but even then i didnt like them. But then we got amiti who's story was super interesting, sveta who is bar none the best character in the franchise, eoleo who was great and forshadowed for over a decade, and himi who had a lot of potential but just no time to shine. I felt so much more for our secondary set of adepts than our first. I also loved that it was far and away the darkest of the 3 games. The eclipse and its rammifications were so twisted and haunting and i was abaolutely enthralled with it. But then so much of the early game was just that fetch quest for the roc feather and the villains were just so lucky tyrell is the worst character because without that lame fetch quest their plans that revolved arou d us would never have happened. Everything about the story leading up to the roc feather involving our main cast was the worst writing golden sun has ever had; but everything post the eclipse is without question my favorite moments of the franchise. Theres so much about the game that makes me want to say i love it and its my favorite golden sun; but just so much more that holds it back. The game was desperate for that sequel we never got to fill in all the loose threads and set up that never got paid off. I wish they had wrote dark dawn as a standalone title without the sequel bait and dangling bits that never got resolved. Its such a shame because they got so much about this game right; especially in the final third.

[@jcplays5831]

I swear if Camelot ever makes Golden Sun 4, it will make everything in dark dawn story wise make sense

[@max.noa_jansen]

I've played the first golden sun on an emulator when I was 15 or something. It was my first introduction to RPG and god was it a unique one. Been loving the genre since. I just want a physical cartridge collection for the switch with the 3 games tbh.

[@dercus6202]

Golden Sun is back on Switch, there might be a chance, of course the chances are beyond low, but there is a small chance nonetheless

[@hexkirn]

09:45 I have to disagree there. You could tell that the DS didn't quite have the capacity to make the 3D look smooth and agile, and some of the summons suffered heavily from that. I actually prefered the fast paced 2D sprites over the 3D even back then.

[@drakath5727]

This is the only golden sun game I ever got to play, and thats because the person who bought it for me as a gift misread the game's title as Golden Axe.

[@nogoodchad4473]

I still can't get over how they did such a massive time jump from 2 to 3. I was really hoping for another more direct sequel instead of what they ended up doing

[@Vidal291]

this video deserves more views

[@user-kh3mc8cx2o]

If this game got you into Golden Sun then welcome to the fan base.

[@RPGVeir]

I lost the count of how many times I replayed the first game + the lost age. This game is timeless masterpiece for me and thanks to its pixel art graphics it aged really well imo

[@eqx7168]

I got lost age in 2003? I think. I was in fifth grade. The game is on par with others i played around then in terms of how influential they were. Ocarina of Time, Golden Sun, the first three gens of pokemon. Never played Dark Dawn, but some day i will! Maybe after i catch up with the pokemon games, I stopped playing those after gen 3. Currently im catching up on gen 5!

[@karn75]

I played all three, starting with the original which my older brother owned. I got Lost Age as a birthday gift and bought Dark Dawn in early 11 after I entered the workforce. I also just found the Guide to Dark Dawn a few weeks ago while digging through boxes of older gaming stuff. Sadly I don't know where any game cartridges are. :(

[@Cold_Zero_The_Wise]

I like how the video thumbnail looks like a Final Fantasy cover

[@quicksavepoint]

So Kraden explains in lost age that the edge of the world is due to the lack of Alchemy and that the world is shrinking So I could see towns just straight up vanishing due to it

[@Jolis_Parsec]

I actually liked this game in spite of the huge expectations thanks to the first two titles that it obviously was never going to be able to live up to. It also helps that you get the badass known as Eoleo as your second Mars Adept if memory serves. 😏

[@saltytrainer]

How many golden sun games are there now? I played one of them like 20 years ago

[@broken1394]

Just the 3.

[@Mr.No-One]

The Golden Sun series is my favorite Rpg series of all time, while I will love to have a new installment is kinda hard imagine it happening right now, maybe a fan project can fill the gap and show to Nintendo that the Golden Sun franchise is still remember or maybe they already have plans for it but I will love to have the series come back.

[@westonmeyer3110]

Camelot doesn’t really have a choice but to try Golden Sun again. The Mario Sports games are mostly failures despite the success of the Switch and I doubt the next ones are going to do much better, so Camelot is inevitably going to be told to make Golden Sun again by Nintendo.

[@inazuma-fulgur]

Just had to check the upload date, us from the speed running community did away with almost all missable content and there are no points of no return anymore This maybe isn't giga relevant for casual players, but the tricks are generally easy and I think only one or two djinns can still be missed permanently in Belinsk, everything else is permanently accessible Also we unlocked an extra seven djinns but that's another story (and you still can't get more than 9 per character)

[@kithkin01]

I am going to remake golden sun 3 in a completely different way as it should have been. I just need a team of people willing to copyright infringe

[@Designated_loser]

If they make a new golden sun/remake the originals, can we please have a moment where the cast realizes kraden sucks

[@Kkanon]

I absolutely loved this game. Despite deleting my save file on accident at the last section, this game was still my favorite past-time as a child.

[@Puckaboo]

Thank you for making a video on this game! I would love to see a nice remaster of the first two games for the nostalgia and for potential new fans. And if that goes well, maybe we can see more added to the golden sun lore and explore more of Weyard.

[@dixel2047]

Good video

[@WiiTara]

Its funny to hear how much you like the Dungeons in Dark Dawn for exactly what I dislike about them :D To me they are a bit to short and I would have enjoyed them just a bit longer. I personally dont feel like I got to lost in the previouses entrys dungeons since I felt like they folded very neatly. You very often head like two or three spots you cant walk through and when you advanced in the dungeon you were able to push a pillar aside or sth to unlock a fast way to the previous section which for me gave the dungeon a feeling a well folded space instead of a tube.

[@Unless-feature]

"Wrong time" Exactly, it's why the Golden Sun franchise is cold as the grave right now

[@marcoasturias8520]

I feel, if GS was a stand alone game, it'd be remembered just like GSDD. The game sets up for so much stuff, so much so it's obvious it's the first half of a story. I hope the franchise returns and we just got the GBA games on NSO EP, so, there might be hope.

[@pengmaeda9908]

I was one of the fortunate souls who did buy this game when I was a kid. Unfortunately I never finished it, because I lost it. Not sure how I lost it, I just did. Fast forward to a couple years ago I did finish it on an emulator. Good memories.

[@ivanzoneBR24]

If you're going to make a critique of Camelot, please give credit when credit is due and do not generalize all the Mario Sports games to be bad, because in the GBA and the GCN, Camelot was thriving with amazing entries for Mario Golf and Tennis, with rich gameplay and some of them with really good story modes. Its only the recent ones from 3ds, Wii U and Switch (maybe not World Tour) that dont live up to the standard and are lacking.

[@andresmarrero8666]

I hold the fault on Nintendo mostly. Camelot soft (I think I got the company name correct) came to them with their skills in RPGs and they were almost entirely locked up in doing Mario sports games that wasted their cultivated skills and talents. So when they finally got permission to make an RPG again Dark Dawn was forced to play catch up for those who don't know the franchise because it had been nearly a decade since the first two entries and setup for the next game. Nintendo took a well respected company and then shoved them into the inconsequential basement forced to make games that they weren't suited for and had little passion for. They want to make RPGs not sports games but they are not allowed to do so for whatever reason. It is similar to how Genius Seniority has been forced to make mobile games that few care about dispite their outstanding and well loved performance in Colosseum and XD. Nintendo has a very bad habit of obtaining respected studios and then wasting them. It is infuriating.

[@g0lgrim1]

My hot take as huge Golden Sun fan: Dark Dawn was good... it sadly was just the prolog to the new big story we should have gotten. I mean realy... the whole thing is just a fetch-quest for our guys to find a roc-feather to build the paraglider to check out whats up in the Temple their parents watch over... and we ALL knew THIS would be the start of the real thing... the Alchemy balance is of again... But no... fetch quest leading into endless side-quest stuff blown up to a "main quest". But there where so many dudes missing if we go with the whole "we are the children of the old guard"-stick... and the world itself was cut short too... its just one fourth of the known world? meh... BUT: IF this prologue would have a real game behind to explain all those interesting new concepts, factions and myths i think it would have been great.

[@EveryBodyLikesApples]

I always loved the music in the game

[@Nallmoju]

Problem with Dark Dawn is it wasn't an upgrade from previous game as Lost Age was from the first. Lost Age granted so much depht to the world, the mechanics, the story, the equipement, on the same console, it was astonishing at the time. When few years later Dark Dawn came up, there was basically nothing new. The best equipement is exactly the same as the previous game, same names and stats, same amount of djinns, same summons except just one new. It was disappointing for someone who had beaten the two previous because you knew by a certain point that the game held no surprises for you, every character being an archetype of early heroes.

[@gamrage]

Saying Xenoblade 3 is a ripoff of Golden Sun's dialogue is really stupid. The long dialogue has always been a thing since Xenogears and Xenosaga. They've actually improved on the amount of dialogue since then. You can compare them but keep in mind which came first.

[@xbot02]

Forgot about the bird and its butt... I'm not happy about being reminded lol

[@krisnantoprayogosantoso4033]

Also, Camelot Software Planning is always busy making Mario Sports series for Nintendo. They sells a lot more than Golden Sun series.

[@hitochiquito8952]

Shout out to Nostalgia at 10:21

[@dale117]

Golden Sun fans pissed that 'Dark Dawn' came out so late, meanwhile I'm still waiting on a sequel to 'Beyond the Beyond'.

[@river2345]

I love this game, aaready 100% it. I just hate the faact that this series has no continuation

[@zerochill4096]

Honestly? I think the best opportunity for a new Golden Sun game is a reboot that takes the ideas of the previous games and fleshes them out in a new way that captures the spirit of old. Dark Dawn has the unfortunate consequence of leaving the series off on a note where it's impossible to continue the original continuity while also being satisfactory as both a game and Golden Sun game. One thing I would like to see is that they make a stat that scales to non-physical Psynergy considering how Offensive Psynergy falls off hard once you get the best Weapon Unleashes that scale to Attack.

[@Dogmagic420]

Man i remember being so excited for the third entry to experience extreme disappointment and an ending to the game where i expected more. Honestly wouldve been a great game as a spin off, it isnt bad, but it was shit in comparison to the first 2

[@at0micl0bster]

Dmc5 also exists as a longtime coming sequel but 4 didn't end the story midway through it