Goldman versus Google: A career on Wall Street or in Silicon Valley?

The Buttonwood Gathering 2013, New York City
For decades, the best and brightest minds from American business schools were attracted to Wall Street by the promise of high pay and prestige. But at least since the financial crisis, high-tech companies have become an increasingly appealing destination, and today, when Silicon Valley competes head-to-head for top talent with a financial services firm, it's often winning. In this spirited debate, two heavyweight thinkers argue over the respective merits of these two diverse career paths. Can Wall Street regain its preeminence and if so how? Does it need to-and can it-sell itself as a place where Millennials can both makes lots of money--and have a positive impact on society? Or will tech firms continue to win the war for the most creative and quantitative minds?
Robert J. Shiller, Sterling Professor of Economics, Yale University
Vivek Wadhwa, Vice president of innovation and research, Singularity University

[@Badatbackflips]

Interesting debate but you're simply arguing between two complementary entities that depend on each other. The one that provides the resources, and the one that builds value with those resources. We need both

[@xn-triq7607]

😮

[@kk1192ification]

It's very much clear that finance and technology compliments each other.Just arguing by giving gratuitous points Mr.Vivek Wadhwa made himself sound like an idiot.The equanimity by which Mr.Robert J. Shiller handled this debate is really praise worthy.

[@WiteBot]

Lol how on Earth do those 2 compliment each other? Such a warped view

[@AnthonyDoesYouTube]

@@WiteBot which planet are you from that you think they're not

[@karkas_dlya_vas_ufa]

I’m so agreee!

[@kk1192ification]

@@WiteBot This comment is four years old. We have all witnessed how FinTech space has evelved over these years. I guess time has answered your question.

[@MrSupernova111]

Horrible way to perform a Q&A and quite disrespectful to the guest speakers.

[@jaysah8688]

I left as soon as the indian guy spoke

[@lnhart7157]

When he made the list of what finance and Google have given us, he forgot to mention that finance has given us Google!

[@Lluiscanadell]

Compare how many taxes each pay and you'll find out that GS ain't that evil and Google ain't that great

[@lenimentus4698]

Compare how many taxes are getting saves and you will find out that GS and Google are Evil.

[@mrktictoc]

Lluis Cañadell i ni ii

[@mrktictoc]

Lenimen

[@mrktictoc]

Alex

[@Bryanstephenkerr]

The pro google dude was so rude

[@RideWithMoment]

nahh he was spitting straight facts

[@unuakhe]

He said he can't believe he's having this argument, let alone with a Nobel prize laureate. Not such a nice thing to say. But I love Prof. Robert's gracefulness.

[@haraldfranck9]

That guy Vivek has absolutely no understanding of finance and markets

[@bhaavyachowdhary9717]

Everytime I rethink my decision to pursue Finance after my undergraduate in Computer Science..... I listen to Dr. Schiller and know I'm right.

[@bhaavyachowdhary9717]

@rishi pael If I was to move to NYC I'd go there for the money, not the man. Money attracts money, the man will come.

[@MiMi-fu9mw]

Which one you pursued?

[@bhaavyachowdhary9717]

@@MiMi-fu9mw My undergraduate is in Engineering, I will be doing my masters in Finance so both 😁

[@whotube88]

The Google guy needs to lighten up lol

[@Garwesvinu9e]

How Professor Shiller isn't the american president and Trump is, just kills me

[@huiyichen6554]

I think, the probability to do "good" things in Google is higher than that in Goldman Sachs, but the probability to make good money is higher in Goldman Sachs. By "good" I mean beneficiary in some way to the human society. Ultimately it all comes down to a person's values and core competence- if a person wants to do good, they can good anywhere, it is where one can find a niche that suits one's skills best. There's one point I don't agree with Dr.Wadhwa though- Finance or Goldman Sachs per se do not create the financial bubble, human greed does.

[@Garwesvinu9e]

And also you have better chances as a hedgefund broker of getting paid better. I dont know why people want to hide wanting money as a pityful trait nowadays-money builds nations,your bank use money everyday,country,same thing. Bubbles in my eyes,are going to happen greed or not. It's not a perfect system,just like anything and everything else man made so at some point it's bound to hit a breaking point. Thank God this earth wasn't made by a human being lool. I agree with you Chen,its a person's motives and and core values play more of a major role than anything else. Just wish I understood at least 80% of the proffessor Shiller's free classes

[@asdfghj123206]

what a waste of time lots of flawed logic coming form tech.

[@leskipbayless3280]

Why not both? Fintech is turning into a more powerful industry than both finance and technology.

[@AnthonyDoesYouTube]

Google guy said Credit Default Swaps twice

[@tavom6710]

Shilldog went in. I was going to go into tech before watching this

[@colombiankid67]

tavo m you still should

[@mayank1252]

The tech guy is so idiotic and unrealistic. lol. Thank god I work in finance..

[@CarpeDiemTomorrow]

Surprised they set this up as if all should pick one. We need both. Whether one should go into one or the other DEPENDS ON THE PERSON. DONE.

[@nicolasfat]

google would not exist without finance and financiers. Done.

[@karanshah7457]

+Nicolas Verrière nothing would exist without google

[@abdul-sadiqellams2978]

Microsoft

[@Space_math.engineer]

sadiq ellams lol u just wrecked karan

[@BrianDeRosa]

hah

[@yomomomama3964]

funny af but true af in our days modern world

[@LuisRomaUSA]

google, get your stocks out of the market and then come back to the debate

[@MrSupernova111]

Good one! Also, Google, the venture capitalists! Haha

[@karkas_dlya_vas_ufa]

Hahahahahahh..... you’re good)

[@noshinnawar4324]

Looks like people harbour a lot of bias and prejudices against finance because of which they aren't even listening to Professor Shiller properly. See, the point Robert Shiller tried to make was that mortgages, CDOs, CDSs etc aren't inherently bad. These financial instruments are essential as they contribute to minimise risk, provide financial security to people (when these are handled responsibly and within the bounds of regulation). However, irresponsible handling of mortgages, CDOs, default swaps (by banks) at large is what leads to formation of bubbles and eventually, a crisis. So the bottom line is that rogue traders, immoral investment bankers, irresponsible risk appraisers are the problem- and not finance/financial instruments as a whole. This is why Robert Shiller advocates that more idealistic and moral people get into finance for proper utilisation of these facilities.

[@izaccy]

Prof. Shiller I feel sorry for him, he shouldnt defend those crooks at WS, but he should defend finance in general, it is fundamental tool that everyone should know about, and it prevents you from making bad decisions as well as managing risk.

[@ameyabhatnagar6142]

I ain't seeing any google cars till date, and it's 2020

[@rajandrw]

8 years ago they didn't have the foresight on the tech and engineering guys building ML models and generative ai that will eventually render 50% of wall street jobs redundant or forcing them to rethink their roles.

[@Garwesvinu9e]

NOT having accidents?I think you meant reducing accidents:will the google car be able to tell whats in the future,(since so many random things can lead to an accidenr,hence the aforementioned term) cause if not Professor Shiller's obvious dissappointment in his fellow debator's intellect at 9:42 is, well, called for. Google needed financial structure to do all these things,browsers,and searches and maps so I don't think Professor Shiller is there representing Goldman,more to to explain the need and the reason why there is 'a Goldman'. Financial servives are an essential part of everyday life,and people can either go in to make a difference for the sense of it (with whatever life choice one makes) or for the dollar. Stop worrying about the kids' motive when all you glorify is actors and leave Profesor Shiller for a senseless discussion. See,bet mr editor didnt know (some) of The Economist's owners beit founders were his students. Teachers yall,at the base so important

[@tigerrx7]

@Mulch - give me some statistics on the amount of ideas that flourished into sustaining businesses without "investment banks" or rather any financial pipeline? You're missing the point, people come with ideas every second of the day, that's easy.

[@scottab140]

Wall Street helps companies raise capital so they can operate, enabled normal people to invest so they might retire with more money, and are the biggest philanthropists in the world that help people go to college with scholarships. That is making your mark in the world while you also get rich then become wealthy.

[@void7799]

Majoring in economics right now I’m gonna do high finance for the dank in the bank

[@ricardopiovezanjr.3409]

That's what I call "rude." Jesus!

[@achmedrockefeller8336]

Theres a difference between finance and wallstreet that this google guy couldnt comprehend. His knowledge in regards to finance is so superficial. He kept saying too many words like "CDO, Mortgage backed securities, subprime lending" which was all referring to one single dark event in financial history. Now lets look at the many negative externalities that tech has brought us just within the past decade. Saying finance is crooked because of 2008 is like saying Physics is immoral and evil because of 1945. I pity Prof Robert Shiller, Nobel Laureate in Economics for having to sit and argue with this brain dead tech guy who couldnt do better than a generic highschool argumenf against finance.

[@Rohitranyal-r7z]

Yes professor was very kind human he is very good person and you are also very good person If automation takes place first person to be removed will be engineers not finance Finance was there long before tech industry and it will continue to strive even after tech industry. #SMALLDICKLIVESMATTER

[@francovasquez6889]

How does competition relate to this? I think the market for technology is so productive because it is extremely competitive, just a single smart teen can take over the market (facebook, google, tesla, youtube, etc) in a couple of years, while the financial markets are not as competitive, just try making a bank from the ground now, it almost impossible, unlike technology (facebook has like 1 billion users in just 10 years and was created by a 22yo). So in conclusion, i don't believe the productivity of these two different market is because of the industry themselves, but because technology is extremely competitive, while just a small number of players have extremely powerful influence in finance (blackrock itself has over 4.56 trillion on Assets under managment).

[@StevoeUSA]

Sure, this is apples and oranges, but here’s another potential wrinkle here: which one deserves an increased competitive influx of grads? In finance, most of those that vie for these jobs are looking to make good money, which makes sense because there is little innovation involved in competing with other entities (there is only strategy with what you have). As for Google, the goals are to make an impact with innovation AND money. I would say that the former’s carrot-on-the stock attracts more sharks than that of the latter. This would also explain the cultural differences, and Shiller’s reference to GS’ founder’s values as a reason why they have a respectful culture was a pathetic attempt to cover the debauchery that happens behind closed doors on Wall St. Ultimately, I would say sending students to Wall St. in higher droves would mean only those with the largest appetite for greed would win out. Not something we want there. As for Google, high competitiveness only results in better innovation, though this may result in a culture less zealous about inclusion. I’d say the latter is a lesser evil.

[@tigerrx7]

Vivek, I'm disappointed in you for even being on this "debate" panel. Google, or no technological innovation, exist without finance. Engineers can learn finance (being a new engineering graduate myself, studying finance now). There's no winning to this topic. Anyways, hooray for an engineering Nobel prize!

[@shaz3r786]

Innovation in science and technology has flourished for hundreds of years without banks. You don't need finance to come up with an idea. Investment banks just help people who want to raise capital for their product or idea to become more global.

[@void7799]

This would make anyone making the decision between these two paths pick finance, the google guy is rude

[@777jones]

I find this question obnoxious. Why not add neurosurgeon to the mix?

[@matthewa6881]

if there was no innovation and new technological advances in science and engineering the world would be stuck in an infinite loop. The only thing that would change is culture or ideology. This is nihilism taken to it's maximum.

[@blindleftist5985]

Definitely a career on wall street regardless of all the criticism and defamation. It is lucrative and preeminent.

[@alphan111]

This is a stupid question. What does it mean to work at Goldman? Are you going to be an investment banker, trader, portfolio manager, programmer, accountant? What does it mean to work at Google? Are you going to be a software engineer, a sales person, an accountant, an account manager? Because lives, responsibilities and paychecks of these differ substantially.

[@onee]

It is not stupid. Actually Bill Gates ones said that he saw Goldman Sachs as his biggest competitor, because Goldman Sachs gets a lot of the bright minds working for them. In both companies you can do similar jobs to a certain extent. Ever heard of high frequency trading? Maybe that will make you understand it a little more.

[@alphan111]

Have you even read my comment before commenting? I recommend that you try again. My point was both Google and GS are big conglomerates; therefore, there is not a uniform job to compare. It may be a better decision to be a banker at GS than doing corporate finance at Google, but be a programmer at Google. As someone who moved from working at hedge funds to tech space, I am quiet aware of the overlap.

[@scottab140]

Alphan Kirayoglu I think "onee" was comparing software engineers in both companies and you pose the broader look of the companies. Easy to see how you two came to the misunderstanding. Wall Street firms such as Citadel and DE Shaw do or did have some of the brightest minds and you can add Renaissance Technologies to the mix for getting elite Engineers and PhD's to their firms versus Silicon Valley. There are plenty programmers to go around. I think Wall Street pays higher than Google. To provide an answer to your question of what does it mean to work for Goldman Sachs, I would say to provide market stability with liquidity, helps companies raise capital so they can operate, enabled normal people to invest so they might retire with more money, and are the biggest philanthropists in the world that help people go to college with scholarships. That is making your mark in the world while you also get rich then become wealthy. Programmers do more than just HFT, as they also do program trading, and other algo like you know as you stated having Hedge Fund experience.

[@s0uris012]

+onee the thing is if goldman sachs collapses the entire finanncial system collapses just by the pure amount of leverage that this bank has by the the way banks can create money by creating deposits out of nothing by lending to already existing assets thats why 97 precent of our money supply is private credit and only 3 precent is legal tender so it plays a much bigger role

[@sbfhawk4343]

Finance and Google both need each other to function in this society and in that type of platform. Unless we truly make ourselves free we would have to eliminate both entities. Period

[@missmayadee3288]

What a good Program It must be watch by every one who is need to go from India to USA, Thanks

[@farbodba]

What a torture Dr. Shiller went through in this meeting! I am having mental damage from listening to Vivek Wadhwa!

[@hiepvu5497]

Look how the tides have turned

[@rabbanishin]

When you comparing “CDO, subprime mortgage, housing bubble, etc”, you DON’T compare it to “search engine, youtube”, but you compare it to “privacy breach, child pornography, credit card scam, piracy, etc.”

[@shivanibiswal3269]

All for Schiller 🙌

[@anishkhajuria4494]

Now if you have skills in both the technological and business side, then you are a whole other breed. Smarter, faster stronger and adaptable to the undeniable changes brought to our world with time.

[@jastat]

I like this, "we need a lot of finance people to... um, err, 'provide resources' " - wtf kind of double speak is that?

[@100Mmore]

Technology companies need someone to believe in them, along with connecting them with the best people possible to get the job done. This is what finance does.

[@Garwesvinu9e]

are you serious?If I finish college and I'm as smart as this guy I'll hang myself.loool.I think he literarly went on google before he went to this debate. You're not arguing for technology,financial services has technology advances,economics itself was once a technological advance were they deemed it a moral science. How does a car that hasnt had accidents equal no traffic congestion HOW?looool.I'm sorry, now though it's very interesting things brought up being done by google, and unquestionably also conversely for man, one needs to remember that not all areas will and are currently using 'the internet'. Back in my country half still see a TV as a huge advancement so what befalls the rest of the developing world that aren't as dependent on their car, or browsers?13:18 Proff Shiller I'm sure cant believe what he's hearing,hopes he not one of his students. You make it seem like all people are the same and they'll actually unanimously decide...'forget my lambo,spyker spider;I want a Google car loool'. Mr Wadhwa,all due respect honestly you're kind of a a hype-man for Singularity University,whatever that is,your book title is crap...WHAT race?The US won ages ago,just as an indicator,isn't Newyork holding more number of foreign internationals than any other city in the world? SO,what gives this man the standing to argue ANYTHING with a nobel prize winner in ECONOMICS,standing proffessor of Economics at Yale University? I just wanna know where you sign up for things like this,I got some issues of my own.

[@mihaillapin1755]

If we will use speakers like represent of each study field, then Shiller-Finance is old good man who want to good things, and Wadhwa-Google is just a rude man, who just like to argue. Bad people makes bad things and good people makes good things, no matter which study field are you choose. Finance provide programming with money, so they can go grow to big useful for society company like Google. Without finance instruments you are not been able build big company like google only on your skill and ideas. So then you say something like, “Finance guys are evil” you just don’t understand how market work. In compare between google and GS only evil is government.

[@JabbaJohnson]

IB or bust

[@daisydd1709]

technology is changing finance. mobile phone app credit rated lending, crowd risk pooling insurance like product, AI/data science for finance etc.... but money is money, digitally or not

[@ravindertalwar553]

LONG LIVE INDIAN AMERICAN FRIENDSHIP AND MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING.

[@NOName-nn3jv]

The Google dude has no idea what he is talking about. That's not but Google about bimbo.

[@ks-dd7gv]

If it wasn't for KZbin, no one would be able to watch this.

[@leepl7183]

If it wasn't for finance, there is no KZbin..

[@ks-dd7gv]

@@leepl7183 And if it wasn't for technology, finance would still be in the stone ages.

[@DrumNBassed]

@@ks-dd7gv Ever heard of the abacus? Fiance doesn't need technology.

[@Alex-xf8pl]

insurance for natural disasters can be taken on by the municipalities'/countries' tax money

[@zink5664]

Even peter their wrote in his book ‘zero to one’ that companies should only focus on one thing.be a profit related company’s or a non profit if you try to do both then the company just fails

[@ravindertalwar553]

NO TEARS NO FEARS ONLY CHEERS AND CHEERS FOR ALL NEARS AND DEARS.

[@mirandarector4298]

Great video. Very interesting debate.

[@fk89green36]

I like to think that technological innovations are like a car and Finance is the combustible to fuel those activities. The car won't work witout fuel and the fuel itself is worthless. Thus this comparison is nonsense. Both are related but can't be classified as best or worst.

[@siriusinkheart]

If some sector of industry no longer innovate fast enough, and we justify to annex it. What happen when the tech sector hit a low point of innovation? At one point, production line, working in shift is innovation.

[@davontawilliams3958]

Which is better today ?

[@ravindertalwar553]

I LOVE AMERICA AND ALL AMERICANS.

[@myassessmentadres1349]

hehe, now we have it. at 20.00 min. They do not need any banks to finance anything for the next 30 years , thank you.

[@fearlesspeanut6868]

Cannot stand this Vevek guy.

[@Alex-xf8pl]

Google everything

[@viiryavat]

What a great topic... with two extremely extremely ill-prepared experts. Finance facilitates technology propagation/development, so when considering innovation, finance should be EMBEDDED into technology (al la Peter Thiel). Done. The issue of the morality/sexism of Finance is both fascinating and not the topic. Finance is a construct of Economics, which is a manifestation of human Psychology. It's not evil - it just is. But it is also not the topic.

[@myassessmentadres1349]

Finance has destroyed the world and now - governments have to solve it and hardworking people to suffer in a very injusticed way. The big chunk of money is in the wrong hands. 400 people control the amount of population of 165 million people of the population. They have the amount of money that belong to 165 million of people. So finance create big problems for THE WHOLE WORLD and a big gap, that create hunger, and diseases for everyone. These people sit there , talk, talk talk, at the same time, they are not doing anything good for anyone, go back home afterwards and sleep unmerciful in there own bed, while are not willing to solve any problems, that is the reason why the younger generation realize that they are UNETHICAL people. You see, they steal everything and 50.000 of people died because they are poor, the government has no money to protect the country Haiti.

[@oscarherrera7041]

Who thought that was a good idea to bring this red tie clown. I mean, he killed the intelectual debate

[@karkas_dlya_vas_ufa]

It’s wonderful! With all respect to google.... why is this noble man talks that manner? May be the problem is mine but... have I only one person who were distracted by his manner? Aggressive-forward, personal disrespect, overwhelming speech? Probably it wasn’t the best person of google I suppose... btw he was represented their interests and it wasn’t great.... ( plus one thing.... google would like to get rid of financial institutions and do on his own with focus of logic..... ( to make bigger, stronger, faster....) but humans being is not. I think that’s a common line of all- successful oriented people in USA, they need at least a couple of centuries to get to the state of Mind of Europeans, cause they’ve already had that tech-industry GANG in 19th century, but it’s just IMHO) no offense is here , just desire to watch a respectful debate. Thank you for video, it was a pleasure to watch this. If someone would like to discuss about it, text me)

[@karkas_dlya_vas_ufa]

*was I + who was +

[@Rohitranyal-r7z]

Sir finance is not disappearing right? Finance is more important than tech industries finance was for centuries but tech came 50 yrs ago. And f automation takes place the first person to be removed will be engineers for sure. In finance it is more based on individual interactions, rather than sitting behind computer whole day And also wallstreet is more powerful than silicon valley If wallstreet collapse it would impact us financially whereas if silicon valley collapse it would cause that much harm as many countries have even banned google . So this makes no change Finance was then when tech wasnt there and at the end its not NASA but Federal reserve which helps nation?

[@温嘉豪]

Fast forward 7 years, China's manufacturing industry is still doing just fine

[@sunshinelawfan7693]

All male panel -

[@Alex-xf8pl]

In the future finance will be replaced by a computer

[@GreengrassChurch]

Shiller said virtually nothing about the redeeming value of a career in finance.

[@piggy8435]

weird comparison.... Google probably accepts less than 1% of the people wall street would accept, it's more competitive to get in. Weird way to frame the argument as a choice

[@Iosif_]

It depends ... if you are a psychopath you will be better at Goldman XD

[@ra6865]

Technology came first. fianance is hindering technology today :)

[@ndklskgisiiiyyy5449]

F is for the chosen ones while CS is one among the left millions of others.

[@dogmaradominiczy]

yup

[@dogmaradominiczy]

yup

[@dogmaradominiczy]

yup

[@CryptoHustleLive]

How can you defend Finance? You cant.

[@nivarrajoo408]

Why can’t you defend Finance?

[@Rohitranyal-r7z]

Sir finance is not disappearing right? Finance is more important than tech industries finance was for centuries but tech came 50 yrs ago. And f automation takes place the first person to be removed will be engineers for sure. In finance it is more based on individual interactions, rather than sitting behind computer whole day And also wallstreet is more powerful than silicon valley If wallstreet collapse it would impact us financially whereas if silicon valley collapse it would cause that much harm as many countries have even banned google . So this makes no change Finance was then when tech wasnt there and at the end its not NASA but Federal reserve which helps nation?

[@sidharthmohanty6434]

Except working with Google you have to very smart not so in Goldman

[@shastasilverchairsg]

#firstworldproblems

[@gmshadowtraders]

What's Google, about 15 years old? Versus Goldman Sachs which has like a 150 year track record.

[@onee]

Yeah, that totally make sense. Because you are going to work the next 150 years for Goldman Sachs right? According to your logic, you would have chosen Lehman Brothers in 2006, if you were looking for a job back then.

[@dogmaradominiczy]

yup

[@Hawktotalwar]

+onee Google would not exist without financing done, end of debate