Good Art Requires a Deep Longing | Martin Shaw & Jonathan Pageau

[@banalarousal4310]

"No one has ever written, painted, sculpted, modeled, built, or invented except literally to get out of hell" - Antonin Artaud

[@ferror18]

@@liamwalker5797 I think he was saying, they got themselves or were at hell already, and used art to escape the hell they were on.

[@Angel-cu5mf]

"repentance is something grandiose dying so something great can be born" wow

[@jeremyfirth]

"Keep thy mind in Hell and despair not." -St. Silouan the Athonite

[@FrJohnBrownSJ]

That sums it up!

[@47StormShadow]

@@FrJohnBrownSJ Could you unpack that for me because, i'm having a hard time following.

[@FrJohnBrownSJ]

@@47StormShadow Martin Shaw, in this clip, sums it up as: "Until you are on your knees, you're not in the appropriate position to look up at the universe." In other words, the difficulties and sufferings in this world, even (or maybe especially) those self-imposed by our own sins, have the effect of humbling us, making it possible to see higher things by contrast. Luke 14:10-11 is more than just convention but perspective.

[@47StormShadow]

@@FrJohnBrownSJ I see, thank you Father. It seemed to me for a moment like saying we should stay in our sin in order to achieve some artistic purpose, which of course would be silly. I'm not quite sure I buy that being fallen creatures is also a necessary condition for art.

[@aidanpelly144]

@@FrJohnBrownSJ Thank you for summing this up. What a beautiful message.

[@lincwhitney]

Martin Shaw looks like Robin Williams

[@lisaonthemargins]

Who's Martin Shaw

[@enzocompanbadillo5365]

@7:06 "Born out of distance from Eden". It is precisely distance one of the main things that modernity has always tried to nullify. Reminds me of Walter Benjamins concept of aura: "even the most perfect reproduction of a work of art is lacking in one element: Its presence in time and space, its unique existence at the place where it happens to be".

[@iankaiser2401]

Does the Leviathan in Job have anything to do either with this deep hell inside you or more so; possibly be related to the divine darkness of saints?

[@EmilynWood]

I was just thinking something like this when rereading it recently.

[@vakhtangkilauridze4511]

“Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.” Matthew 5:4

[@pgranto64]

Music makes manifest the aspirations of the human soul .

[@FrJohnBrownSJ]

Bishop Robert Barron is probably the most influential clergyman in America today. Dear Lord, more like him, please.

[@the300XM8]

He is a real master in keeping theological balance. Never going in any extreme. We need more of that these days

[@FrJohnBrownSJ]

@@the300XM8 I'd describe that balance as a kind of passionate taste. He seems able to appreciate what's good in things that aren't perfect without the insecurities you sometimes see in other passionate people.

[@FrJohnBrownSJ]

@@achilleuspetreas3828 Your commitment to your brand of Orthodoxy is noted. No offense taken.

[@achilleuspetreas3828]

@@FrJohnBrownSJ Most influential Catholic American clergyman, thus missing the mark quite a bit. I mean no disrespect Father, but we need more Orthodox priests here

[@achilleuspetreas3828]

@@FrJohnBrownSJ This is not MY brand of Orthodoxy. It IS Orthodoxy. If you were to read any of our saints you would be fully aware of this. You know this is an Orthodox channel, and you know what you're doing. Your ecumenism and passive aggressiveness is noted.

[@warb_of_fire]

In this world We walk on the roof of hell Gazing at flowers ― Kobayashi Issa

[@ironmonkey1512]

I've always wondered about Bach's work this way. Is his music a form of self-indulgence, or is he aspiring to show man made in God's image?

[@FrJohnBrownSJ]

Excellent question! I've wondered the same about the Renaissance master painters. I think there's a dangerous dose of confidence when drawing from pagan inspiration to depict God as Zeus-like, for example. I know Jonathan Pageau has gone a long way in smashing my idol concerning the Sistine Chapel ceiling, but in the end I come back to that same love for the human form in the image of God, and a fearlessness when it comes to things shared with classic Greek and Roman symbols - I know who God is and His triumph is total!

[@BlessedAssurance949]

My mind goes to the Buddhist practice of tonglin when you talk of keeping your mind in hell. When people energetically put themselves above others, it feeds into a mirror effect, which because of modern culture can often create feedback loops instead of being broken by forgiveness and reconciliation.

[@densaakaldte1]

Amazing! I love these people ❤️

[@fedorindoukaev3361]

Speaking of "art by happy people is dreadful" (5:40), Neil and Kate DeGraide of the Dirt Poor Robins seem to be very happy people and yet their art is excellent

[@keithjohnsonYT]

When the Bluestraveler says, “the hook brings you back”, I imagine it like a Looney Tunes character being removed from the stage. (“Playing in the band” - Grateful Dead) Just because I enjoy something..doesn’t mean I’m any good at it…

[@ryugaminemikado5584]

well it seems now that people think good art requires deep *learning.

[@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026]

Desire means ‘ of/from the stars’. Still maintain people confuse passions with desire. Desire is longing and belonging. Keys to mercy and to place.

[@leondbleondb]

Why is there a Kerry Gold butter ad here 🤣

[@ducodeco]

Love this conversation. Would love to see more jungian lexicon in the mix; I see it has the potential to fill some gaps. Jung and jungian writers have made this connection pretty explicit. “The great mother is impregnated by the loneliness of him that seeks her” -Carl Jung letter to Herman Hesse.

[@slick_Ric]

Jung was an occultist. what fellowship hath light with darkness?

[@ropori_piipo]

The product of Cain's descendants is everywhere, and as it multiplies, its value seems to become asymptotically close to zero.

[@JaredandTasha]

I deeply agree. Its a form of ‘giving the devil his due’. Experiencing alpine beauty is a physical form of this art. There’s and embedded nature of hell in it - altitude, mosquitoes, lightning, etc.

[@carolinegraystone9308]

We suffer for our art

[@notloki3377]

YES! "Mercurius stands at the beginning and end of the work: he is the Prima materia, the Caput Corvi, the Nigredo; as dragon he devours himself and as dragon he dies, to rise again in the Lapis." He is the play of colours in the cauda pavonis and the division into the four elements. He is the Hermaphrodite that was in the beginning, that splits into the classical brother-sister duality and is reunited in the coniunctio, to appear once again at the end in the radiant form of the Lumen Novum, the stone. He is metallic yet liquid, matter yet spirit, cold yet fiery, poison and yet healing draught - a symbol uniting all the opposites." -- Carl Gustav Jung, 'Psychology and Alchemy'