Good bye Lionel! The demise of a once great, iconic, company in my collection.

Selling off my massive Lionel Collection due to bad quality control, lack of customer service, and part availability from Lionel.

[@dennislaskowski9385]

All I have to say is thank you for putting this video out. I bet there are many including myself that have experienced issues maybe not to your extent but we all should not have to. Again thank you for being a voice to Lionel.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you Dennis, I appreciate the comment. Agreed, as I mentioned, whether you buy one item or several over, it should be a consistent experience with better quality items and less frustration getting issues resolved. 👍

[@tonybethparkes2864]

"We don't do anything on locomotives when they're damaged in shipping." Given Mike's report of inadequate packing when items are returned from Lionel, that in itself is a deal-breaker.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That one was so tough to take, especially when I repack them the exact same way they were packed at the factory to send them in for service and get them back with the locomotives just placed in the styrofoam without any of the plastic wrapped around them or the rubber or foam pieces put back in place to keep them from moving back and forth and secure the trucks from scratching the tender and cylinders. Yet the packing materials are returned wadded up in an open compartment of the styrofoam instead of taking the time to pack them back up correctly. Some damage could have been avoided for sure.

[@thetrainboard2772]

We appreciate your candor and a well done sharing. Quality control for such very expensive, high markup hobby items should be priority one for lionel. These are often small but important problems-- missing, misassembled, or broken parts that should be resolved with patience, resolved quickly with priority by lionel. We value your input gary j

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed, thank you Gary. I’m a very patient person, but have my limits. I think anyone that had their issues go unresolved, with so many of them compounding, would finally throw in the towel no matter how much they used to advocate for, and love Lionel products. Too many disappointments.

[@garyruark9506]

I wouldn't say you were ranting. I think you explained it well. You are not alone and you hit the nail on the head. Poor manufacturing and quality control. Lionel has a packaging problem too. Even simple box cars arrive with broken applied parts like ladders and brake wheels. That's unheard of. Atlas and MTH aren't like that. For what these TOYS cost it should be perfect. Thanks for this video. And one last thing. I don't want to run my trains from my phone or tablet.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you for your comment! I hear you for sure on the packaging. Lionel couldn’t understand why I wanted them to replace the rolling stock boxes in my SP Visionline freight set. Somehow, all of the boxes within the set box were smooshed. Like top down, not side to side, and the set box and shipper were fine?!!! They acted like I was crazy, made me send picks of everything, and still did nothing. Not even a sorry. All this was before I figured out the tender paint job was terrible and the locomotive had board issues. That was the first major frustration from them and down hill since! Thanks again!

[@ralphmiller8087]

Amen!! I don't want to run mine from my phone or tablet either. That phone is in my hands all the time and sometimes I need a break from it. I have Legacy, DCS and DCC, each with their own hand held units and I run conventional as well.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I agree! 👍

[@CreeperBroCMJ]

I’m so sorry you’ve had all these problems. I’ve only had a couple issues from Lionel products (both most likely due to shipping). The plow on my Cab Forward was a little bent and loose in the the box when I received it and one side of a caboose’s truck was broken. I don’t blame you for stopping to buy their newer products. Videos like these are hopefully seen by Lionel so that they can focus their attention to aspects such as customer service or overall quality control. That Cobra will be nice, enjoy!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I’m happy to hear you haven’t had too many issues. I was on a good luck streak in 2017 and 2018, only a couple minor things like that, not really deal breakers but annoying or disappointing I should say, since we are excited to get new stuff and it’s damaged. Now the odds of me buying something that doesn’t have a problem seems to be like the odds of winning a lottery. Not good! Lol. Thanks for checking out my video, and yes, I hope enough people express concern and voice their opinion that it forces Lionel to take another look at their business model/plan and make changes on their approach to quality control, service department, and customer service.

[@whitmorestrains]

I think this is a good move. Stop “investing” in things that give you more headaches than runtime. There are other aspects of trains than just stockpiling items that you never unbox. I know I have found a whole new level of interest in just talking with like-minded train junkies and finding out how they “do” the hobby. To me, talking trains is just as fun as collecting and running trains. Looking forward to seeing where you go from here!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed Wes! I’m working on my layout right now! 😉. Thank you!

[@fernandosantiagorodrigueze2655]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies yo no lo vendería, nadie tiene en Europa colecciones como esta

[@MilePost106]

I’m hardcore post war Lionel trains. Lionel trains were built tough to last when they were made here in the states. And they are easy to work on and will last for years and years. Lionel went to crap once they sold out to China, they will never ever be the same and I will never own any Lionel made in China. My parents gave me my very first Lionel train set back in 1965 with the figure 8 track and loved it.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I do love the postwar trains! Those are what drew me to O, used to have fun for hours with my Grandpa running his Santa Fe Postwar set!

[@geraldmosley2195]

Well, this is what happens when you have a SHELL of a company that use to be back in the days, a real AMERICAN toy company, now you have individuals who didn't have the the company at heart and sold it's soul to China, quality suffers, parts catch on fire, and when you do the right thing you are treated like a sucker.their new product line looks like a joke. Like the lady at Lionel told me WE ARE NOT LIKE THE OLD LIONEL!!! 😳 And said to myself BABY YOU GOT THAT RIGHT.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

You’re absolutely right, so many fans are trying to hold onto and support them is a way based on “what Lionel was” and ignore “what Lionel is” now. I was one for sure but learned fast.

[@HerbertFlowers-l3h]

Most kids don't play with trains anymore, it's like rock n roll only the old groups still make music. Nothing lasts forever, only your dreams carry on

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

@user-lw9pj7yz1l for sure.

[@daivdwalker2374]

Yeah and now Lionel is playing damage control and has moved into Vietnam 🇻🇳 instead of America how sad is that.....they must think Vietnam is going 2 do a better job than China making their products I think they need 2 well not need to.... they must bring production back 2 America and bring back thousands of jobs with multiple manufacturer plants here on American Soil What happened to Loyalty to our own country former Ceo's and founder of Lionel is spinning fast in his grave furious of what Lionel is doing making cheap products over seas instead of making it in America

[@daivdwalker2374]

My old MPC engine that I got in 1979 old KLine engine is still running....How great is that.... I Garrantee no Modern Lionel engine will ever last that long without having 2 send it off all the time getting fixed my KLine I never had to have it fixed except servicing it which I do it myself

[@DynamicDuo795]

Thank You so much for posting this video. Lionel really is out of it's mind with these astronomically insane prices and absurd warranty and customer service base. Lionel is the reason why I only buy MTH products and will continue to do so forever. I got banned on a Facebook group for making a post criticizing Lionel's new 2023 catalog. People these days seriously can't handle the truth.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

You’re welcome, I saw several group admins stating to only post positive stuff, so I said nothing at all, it’s like so many are in denial about how bad it really is. I’m excited when I get something with no issues, but it’s not worth the risk of ordering any more. Thank you for the comment, agreed, they can’t handle the truth, or don’t care.

[@DynamicDuo795]

@Motocraze40 2018 , Lionel is essentially taking the same path that Sunset 3rd Rail had. Very limited quantity, little to no parts available and no warranty of any kind. It's really a sin to purchase a very expensive and cost prohibited model like the one's Lionel is making and than having nothing but problems right out of the box. A friend of mine who's in my local train club 10 years ago bought the than new Lionel Vision Line PRR Baldwin Centipede diesel's and he had nothing but problems with it as soon as he got it. Fast foward 10 years later to today and he still can't get the parts to fix it and get it back up and running. He's now stuck with a $2400 engine that's now and has been for the past 10 years a shelf piece. It's just disgusting. I have 25 MTH Premier engine's and only one Lionel Legacy steam engine that thankfully has not had any issues as of yet. I'm hoping it doesn't.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That is terrible to hear for sure! I like MTH, and have still been buying the specialty runs in 2021 and 2022, yet to have an issue. 👍

[@motherlandone6300]

Oh my God. That poor man.

[@garykuipers2696]

You can't beat the quality of the 20th century post war Lionel products. Anyone who is handy can repair and service them. Parts are still available even if they are reproductions. I have Lionel and Marx trains and accessories. A close friend is a toy train dealer and he has told me of the horror stories of the current production line. I notice that most of the outrageously priced Lionel products are manufactured In China so I wouldn't purchase them even if I could afford them. I'm glad that you presented this expose.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you Gary, I have my fair share of postwar for sure, fun, low maintenance and overall durable. We need a good option for the more prototypical stuff in O Scale as well, I like the best of both worlds for sure. Thanks for the comment and sharing, lots of horror stories from our local dealers and several of my friends as well.

[@njlauren]

Post war basically used the same components for many decades. The modern stuff is so bad bc it is high tech q crap build quality. They are difficult to repair, most repair shops can't fix them, and there are no repair parts. Once the engine sells out , that is it, and on to the next 4k engine

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

@njlauren tough lesson to learn for sure.

[@scottstrainloft5965]

Thanks, Mike, for the Condor. I am so sorry for the issues encountered and agree with your path forward. A hobby is supposed to bring joy and fun, not what you have encountered. I wish you luck with the other manufacturers look and forward to many more years of O scale content on your channel, even if not new Lionel.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you Scott! I appreciate the comment and compliment! I love this hobby, and hope to have many more years of enjoyment from it.

[@jimmelchin1531]

Hey Mike.... The last Lionel train I purchased was the US Navy set from 1994. I've heard much too much about Lionel's products lately. I'm strictly conventional....why pay the price and take any chances. I fully agree with your thoughts. Good for you ! Thank goodness for MTH. Happy New Year...looking forward to your next running session video. Thank You ! p.s. The B&O Royal Blue set behind you is a beauty ! 👍

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you Jim! I still have fun running conventional also. One of my friends actually converts his scale steamers to conventional with an e unit if the electronics break, he doesn’t even fool with it. He likes postwar, but likes some of the big modern steam. So doesn’t bother him not having any tmcc or DCS, or sounds. Now I’m understanding why he does that, just smoke, big steamers, and conventional action with no worries, other then when his is going to get time to run his trains again. Lol 👍

[@BledsoeTrainsRC]

I sure understand. I took years off from buying Lionel and just recently started buying again. I used to buy nothing but Lionel but the QC has gotten so bad. I will say I had a positive experience with lionel customer service recently. Received my 2-10-4 Texas with a marker light missing a lens. Sent an email and they sent a new one out within a couple days. I absolutely dread having to send anything in though, I've received plenty back worse than when I sent them in. My only remedy I've found is buying from a large dealer that will take back the stuff that comes broken. I've become a big buyer of 3rd Rail and Golden Gate Depot. The stuff is better detailed and Scott Mann actually replies to emails. Used to love Lionel with Mike Reagan running things, I would send an email and he would get it taken care of. They really messed up losing him.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Wow, that is fast, I’ve just been trying to get two magnets, I wire harness, two little washers, and brake lines….not much to ask for, and what the locomotives should have already come with. Trainworld did get the Tender replaced for me on my Visionline Freight set, they have been the most eager big dealer to help. I had one with a really bad paint job, and the plastic stuck to the paint so was put in box wet or something. I’ve bought a lot of stuff I didn’t preorder from them and never had an issue with Trainworld.

[@BledsoeTrainsRC]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies I can't believe they never got back with you. Seems so simple (and is) to just ship some parts out. Really unfortunate. I was upset with Lionel for two reasons, one was the stuff was broken, and the other was I really wanted to buy from Lionel but they made it clear for quite a while they didn't want my business even after spending probably 6 figures over the years. I ended up fixing a lot of things myself. The NW2's from a few years ago that came with the trucks/driveshaft disconnected were the first real dive I did. Ended up doing a write up on OGR on how to fix them.I still have some Legacy F3's that came with electro couplers detached and a set of the old CSX F40's that do nothing but make a loud clicking sound when running. Sent them in and Lionel sent them back saying they were fine. Absolute bs. Can't think of many other things I pay thousands for that if they come broken don't get fixed. I hold my tongue a lot when its comes to some other youtubers that seem to think Lionel can do no wrong and almost seem to shill for them a bit, but I guess they always get taken care of. Like you I got to the point it was causing me more stress than anything and threw in the towel for 4 or 5 years. Nicholas Smith trains has been my go to for along time. Only reason I haven't been using train world as well is they charge tax for out of state stuff and on a 2k engine thats still a chunk.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Wow! I have the Santa Fe NW2, it was one of my first Legacy Diesels I bought brand new. I can tell my rear truck is about to fall off, it works fun but that truck is hanging way down. I need to find your video. Agreed, so many act like they never have issues, impossible! When your channel is monetized and your depending on reviewing trains or visiting a Lionel factory for income, I guess you have to drink the Lionel Koolaide and bite your tongue. Not this guy! Lol. Sorry you’ve had so many issues as well. I had no idea it was going to be an ongoing issue after so many complaints from other people on their NW2’s, broken legacy steamers, parts falling off 21” cars, diesels with wrong paint schemes, Visionline challengers with the wrong chuff programmed into them, Verandas with trucks not screwed on, the list goes on and on and on now. 😏

[@BledsoeTrainsRC]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies That screw for the truck is inside the shell going down so the shell has to be removed. Not a big deal but you'll have to pop the rear handrails out which is kinda scary. One of those things that really boiled down to the factory didn't tighten any of the screws. Silly stuff.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Silly for sure, they didn’t tighten a front pilot screw all the way on one of mine and I didn’t realize that before putting it on the track, and you should have seen the sparks flying and the smoke pouring out of it as it burned up during the first have loop of track. All because of a front pilot screw not being installed all the way….quality control.

[@VideoPresence2020]

I agree. Lionel is not going to be a wise path to follow with O scale trains. There are alternatives in O scale. It is unfortunate, because if they were a reliable organization with a quality product I would be a continuing customer.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed, Lionel was a favorite, but they can only burn someone so many times before they chase them off. Great potential, bad overall execution as a company. Sad for sure. Thanks for the comment! 👍

[@stevenbullock9276]

I don't have the means to buy anything really expensive, but I've had problems with about 1/3 of the new Lionel products I've purchased in the last two years. I find it funny that several KZbin reviewers say "that's part of the hobby", "they have a long way to travel", "gives me something to do on a rainy day"- or similar. If you're paying $1500 or more for an engine it should be perfect, and last quite a while.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed! I would rather they send me everything as a kit and let me put it together myself and provide replacement parts than have stuff not work out of the box and be missing parts or have cosmetic flaws. Some people’s standard of what’s acceptable are really compromised if they deem what Lionel is producing and selling these days is just part of the hobby.

[@manderschannel2275]

Well said. If i were to collect Lionel again, I would get some postwar and Richard Kughn era. Today it’s either HO or N for model railroading for me. I have a had a few mth items and I was fascinated by the detail, I wanted an engine but Mth had a reputation for customer service when the engines crapped out

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I started in HO as a kid, then my first house I bought was small so I switched to N, had N for the next 20 years. Then in 2017 started buying O, sold off 75% of my N, regrettably. Then with all the issues with new Lionel and their customer service the past two years, it really made me to decide to start buying more HO and N again, and some Z, S, and G. Mostly N and HO though, I’ll always have those scales because that’s what I grew up loving! 🙂

[@davidschaadt3460]

True,I've been staying away from the high dollar new stuff.

[@Tiger-54]

Mike, thank you for sharing the issues you have with Lionel. The imperfections on the Lionel items you received and the lack of quality customer service is disappointing. It’s perplexing to hear that Lionel reached out to you and failed to promptly follow up with an appropriate and timely action plan to resolve ALL of your issues. Keep us updated on the resolution of your issues. FYI….. I’ve subscribed to your channel and plan to look at other videos that you’ve posted! Good luck, Mark

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Sounds good, still no call back. It’s been almost 5 weeks. At this point, since I went ahead and picked up all my preorders I’m only looking for answers on a few things. Wire harness issue on the polar express Give back the pieces that were left off of my Northern when they serviced it and some compensation for the scratches and damage caused while being serviced, then the bent cab and cow catcher when packing materials were left out when shipped back, they were in the box fyi, just in different compartments than the locomotive. I wish they would buy that one back since it was 1 or 25. The brake lines and washers missing from my NS FS’s that we have gone back and forth on for the last year. Now I wish I didn’t have to follow through on my preorder F7’s I just picked up because I’m not happy with them. We will see if I ever get anywhere, and the shop I buy my preorders from is trying to get the parts for me as well and no luck so far. Doesn’t look hopeful.

[@Tiger-54]

Thank you for the update.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

You’re welcome!

[@luccislayout9520]

Mike, great video. I am actually taking a similar approach to the hobby now. Out of the 4 engines I purchased from Lionel in the last two years, 3 of them have issues. The one that put the final nail in the coffin was the Vision Class A. After one loop around the track it came to a jolting hault and the cab light was flickering. Gearbox appears to be locked up. The front step on the boiler is hitting the pilot light, and the rear trailing truck fell out. It’s just not worth the hassle. I’ll stick with getting some used 3rd rail stuff and be happy with that

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Sorry to hear that! That should have been one of the highlights of your collection, or any collection. Tragic for sure, now you will have to deal with the back and forth and packing and unpacking of the locomotive again. Hopefully they fix it right and don’t damage it more in the process. Very disappointing for sure. 😕

[@luccislayout9520]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies yep, couldn’t agree with you more. It’s a huge disappointment. One another note, keep us posted on car content. I have been restoring cars since I have been 12 and starting a KZbin channel on it soon

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Very cool, let me know when you start your channel! I’ll be your first subscriber! I’ll keep you posted as well. 👍

[@johnchambers8528]

I am sorry to hear how bad quality control has become on newer Lionel trains. I have bought older Lionel trains and they usually still run as good as when they were new. With the high prices and poor quality control and then poor or no customer service after the fact I feel we may see the demise or sale of Lionel trains soon.

[@nathanosland1179]

Glad you have made this video. Everyone needs to know what they are doing!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you

[@rexxumus]

Yours is not the first collection of horror Lionel stories that I have heard. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I am avoiding the high end of Lionel, and stick mostly to MTH for new product, though I will buy older lionel trains (MPC Era) as I enjoy tinkering with them. Great video!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you for checking out the video. My first purchases in O were MTH and older Lionel, l should have stuck with that strategy. I’ve pretty much gone back to that now having sold the majority of my Lionel Legacy locomotives outside of a few favorites that MTH didn’t have available. Tinkering with them is a very fun aspect to this hobby for sure!

[@bobr511]

Sorry to hear of your customer service (or lack of it) experience. Being in sales myself, it always has been important that one treats the company’s customers with some respect, especially if you are expecting repeat sales! Watching many UTube videos and hearing both compliments and complaints on various companies products, this medium does help get the word out. Because of my self imposed budget for this hobby and gauge, most of my purchases were of the early MTH with original Proto sound. They may lack all those features, but I have to say that they are indestructible when it comes to running on my layout. Hope that you are successful in pairing down your collection. And I’m really sorry you gave up your C7 to get to this experience.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you for your comment! I was just running my big Chessie steam turbine, it’s Proto1. With all the new bells and whistles of proto3 and Legacy, I still have great appreciation for how well and smooth proto1 stuff runs, and it’s typically very affordable! I see more of it in my future as well. I like to watch trains run, I have removed all switches from my layout, proto1 is a great option for me also. Thank you for your comment.

[@alanh1406]

I am downsizing my collection as well. I am keeping my postwar and getting rid of modern era stuff. You are also 100 percent right about the pool of buyers, some want everything for 3 cents on the dollar.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Be patient, and there is a buying for everything. Although what just sold for me best at the train show this weekend, was modern, scale, steamers and diesel that are on the rails right now. The postwar remake and less detailed stuff sold, just not nearly as well and had much lower prices than the scale stuff. There is a shift happening for sure. 👍

[@henryszubielski8601]

Mike, That is a shame you've encountered so many problems. It is a new year and sounds like you have a plan. Good luck and I hope the year is a good one for you and Christian with the trains and layout.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you Henry!

[@rennethjarrett4580]

The unfortunate problem in my opinion is the current ownership. They are selling a name that they really no longer understand what and how that company was. In my research about K-line the fact that that Lionel company sued them out of business over a sound system broken agreement and won. So I see it as them taking out all competition and sell to collectors at the highest price and if it is missing parts or quality control who cares, if the customer wants it then they have to come crawling back to Lionel LLC. Mike, I got back into the hobby about 2 years ago and bought many items and sets, Lionel N.Y. and newer, MarX, American Flyer OEM, K-line, MTH, RMT, Kusan, Williams, Weaver. Yes, I have turned my little house into a warehouse, even more then before and then really wanted to set up a operating layout in my back bedroom. Really wanted to do that 12 years ago when I moved here. So I got my table of sorts set up, but my house is just full of stuff. As of last week I decided the past history stuff will be going out to a storage unit in the next few weeks so I can breath, and then hopefully little by little work through that stuff and sell, if I can, what I really don't want and the rest set aside for junk. Then call up 1 800 got junk and have them take it away out of the storage unit. I had a mostly to family computer business for many years, and I see no need to be keeping that stuff anymore. I just turned 60 in January...

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I agree with you 100% on lionel, just about dollars and cents with people running it that most likely had little to no interest in model railroading these days. I’m sure there are still a few employees but I don’t think the main decision makers are. Yes! So easy to over collect with so much available. I’m happy to hear you started a layout and can run some of your collection. Hard to decide what to part with I’m sure!

[@ZainesElectricTrainz]

I feel your pain Mike, i have some issues as well with recent items. Made my blood boil when the guy said there just toys. With that said i back you on this and understand.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Zaine! Nice to hear from you! I’m sorry you are having some difficulty also. You cannot believe how frustrated I am, I feel your pain for sure. I’ve been working on my layout and running trains all night so I’m in the zone right now, even considering picking up my class A tomorrow during lunch…I’m an addict for sure. You don’t know how hard it is not to pick up my new stuff! I’ll never quit this scale or hobby, I love it too much and I would never allow Lionel to ruin that for z Christian and I. Take care! 👍

[@ralphmiller8087]

That would have made me fume as well. A $2K locomotive with high levels of detailing is NOT a toy, it's a model representation of something real. I like my 3rd Rail models over Lionel anymore.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

@ralphmiller8087 I discovered 3rd rail a couple years ago and have been very happy with their products, both new and used since. They are the best looking models for sure and the ones equipped with TMCC and cruise run just fine for me. 👍🙂

[@colinbarnerj3a]

Thank you for posting this- my TMCC locomotives from 1999-2004 still run better than the Reading T-1 I purchased in 2021. Lionel is not a good thing anymore.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

The fit and finish on them seems to be a lot less flawed as well. I have some from those years also. Thank you for the comment. 👍

[@josephpolanin182]

I always wanted a big boy for my modest layout. I got the lionmaster big boy a couple of years ago. When little parts fell out of the box of a brand new engine I knew I was done buying anything with a motor. I have devoted my hobby time to scenery and tightening up electrical work and I am so much happier for it.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Wow, I can imagine how disappointing that must have been. To get a Bigboy and have issues right out of the box, I say that because it’s one of my favorite locomotives and took me some time to work up the nerve to spend that much money on one at the time. I am definitely shifting to more scenery and working on my train room right now as well. I made it through the last train show only buying 3 signs, two MTH Premier cars, and a HO Milwaukee Road F7 A-B set I had been watching the last four local shows the seller was at and he finally made me an offer I couldn’t refuse! Thank you for your comment. 👍

[@stevenplyler6306]

I used to be an operator but now I only want to purchase trains to both collect and display !

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Got ya, that’s a fun part of the hobby also. 👍

[@NixCrossing]

New to the channel - awesome video! I did a video not too long ago on the “new” Vietnamese man. Flat spot box cars. My PC box had an issue with the couplers and they wouldn’t couple to anything but weaver cars. Lionel said they knew about the issue…. Couldn’t believe they’d send something out without QC. The switches also were wired incorrectly haha

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thanks for watching! Wow, that is crazy, sorry to hear you experienced that. Maybe they need to send someone over from the US that knows about trains and what the consumer expects, plus how they should be to begin with, to be the quality control person on the pre production before they start to make a run, and inspect during and after production. Seems like any easy enough to fix and process other manufacturers use. Thanks for checking out my video.

[@radarhec]

Good to see some one wise up !

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you!

[@BerntvBoetticher]

Thank you for this video, I totally agree re. Lionel. I started Lionel beginning of this year and encounter permanently quality issues : 1) flawed paint of the Locomotive of "Lionel The Polar Express freight train" which I returned. 2) Then ordered the "Lionel Polar Express" with the 2-8-4 Locomotive. Result : Yellow whistle was bent due to sloppy packing. smoke fluid in the box was leaking. 3) Lastly when I unboxed the so-called Lionel "Deluxe" 50 Piece O Gauge Model Train Track set today I had to find out that 50 pieces 6 - i.e. more than 10% - are missing.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Hi, thanks for checking out the channel. Sorry to hear you had bad experiences, and so many in a short time as well. I’ve never experienced anything remotely like the quality control issues from Lionel from any other purchases I’ve made in my life. Whether it’s hobby related or anything else. A lot of people still swear by Lionel though. When it works or doesn’t have a cosmetic issue or flaw, it is pretty neat.

[@rickboice5702]

You are 100% correct I’ve had so many problems with new era Lionel , probably 85% of what I bought is just plain junk . I’m done with them ..

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Sorry to hear you have had a similar experience to me. I’ve only been in O a short time and did the last 3 years in a row of preorders, it didn’t take long for them to run me off.

[@rickboice5702]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies yep , I lost it with them and called consumer services , it’s ridiculous they are in business ...

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Understandable for sure! 👍

[@raypfleider]

I was at a train show this weekend. And a lot of people had stated, that they too have seen this happening with there new buys. Some even stated that support is very bad from Lionel. Maybe they will drop the pricing on there product line to match the new quality of the product, or lack of. Even the ready run sets are not at there best.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you for your comment! Absolutely, I agree they need to align their prices with their quality. I have trouble with starter sets, which are still $400 dollars, and Visionline which is supposed to be their best offerings, and get the equally poor offers for resolution and support. If they are going to treat them like throw away or insignificant purchases, they need to price them that way for sure like other companies out there that are China made and not supported if there is an issue, more of a throw away item. Not good for our environment and land fills though! Would be nice to get them to produce great quality, low defect rate, products for sure as the best all around solution.

[@joeyd4593]

Mike, sorry to hear about your Lionel issues. Good luck with the Cobra, I had an ERA back in the day - car was a blast. Backdraft looks like a nice product. Considering a GT40 next. Hope you continue to make content.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! Yes I will continue to make content! There are key pieces I’m still hunting for and will always buy 3rd Rail, Atlas, and MTH! 👍

[@playingwithmytrains5440]

Hey Mike. I share your sediments. The model train industry is heading down a dark path. I am predicting bad thinks happening. Just another sign of the times. You are making the right decisions. Can the industry recover well only time will tell.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I agree! They want to product products from the lowest possible bidder, with the least expensive parts, regardless of quality. Yet demand high prices, with bad customer service and support, knowing their products have issues. I definitely didn’t run into this in the other scales or hobbies I have. It is looking dark! I have plenty to run and enjoy if I never buy another Lionel again. 😉. Thank you 👍

[@CountryBunkersTrains]

What’s with this Cobra talk?? 🤢🤮 no need to get the Lionel of the car brands too…. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That’s funny, lol! I’m not parting with my Hellcat, so I’m keeping my options there. 🙂. Thanks for checking out my video and channel! I love yours!

[@Dakman]

I had issues with Lionel Rolling Stock as well. They really got bad on QC of their scale rolling stock after they moved some of the production to Vietnam a couple of years ago.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I noticed that also.

[@gstephengoss1]

I haven’t bought any of Lionel’s steam engines. All of my engines are modern diesels. But I appreciate the information about the quality control. I’ve only had one issue with damage from packing. The front hose were broken completely off. They replace the front. Got it back in four weeks. I was planning on purchasing the new Big Boy in the next catalog. But now I might look elsewhere. That’s a lot of money with spotty quality control and service. Your not the first person to make that decision. It happening to often. Thanks for your info.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! I’ve only had the issue with my F7 diesels so far that I mentioned in the video, I also had a LegacyUP Diesel that wouldn’t program, and a Trainmaster that the smoke unit fan would run but no heat right out of the box. Both in the past 2 years.

[@ryans1010]

I agree with you. I stick to MTH and don’t regret it😊

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Great choice for sure! Thank you

[@swohs100]

MTH is worse!

[@retiredveteran6812]

If I was standing in place of you ….. From the very beginning to end this could have been a video I posted ! Let’s start out with when Mike Regan left Lionel he took the QC with him ! From then on every purchase was loaded with surprises 😢 The only reason there still in the game is there is no other competition PERIOD …… With the price of these trains it’s ridiculous ! I feel your pain and I’m exactly where your at with Lionel and there lack of caring that most generally falls on deaf ears !

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you for your comment, I definitely learned the hard way being new to O and expecting the same quality control and reliability I had with other scales, I didn’t really have to worry about customer service either since nothing ever broke or if it did most of the time I could fix it or buy a replacement at reasonable cost. I had a 20 year old Kato locomotive stop working, they still had the parts and only charged me shipping and did the repair for free. Now that’s good experience and standing behind what you build and sell.

[@johnbenedict6703]

Lionel no longer comes to the York TCA train show. It's been a while since they were there.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Yeah, I went the last two years and they weren’t there either time.

[@Harleyfred1]

Man! So glad I looked at your video! You may have saved me a ton of money! I’m brand new in this hobby. Haven’t bought anything yet! I was looking at Lionel Starter kits. I don’t think Im gonna do that now. My question is what would you recommend as a starter kit? I’m 80 years old and I had Lionels when I was 7-10 years old. Price is not the real issue. I’m interested in diesel locomotives that operated in Mississippi now or the past. I’m thinking O guage. But it seems HO is the most popular. Can you recommend something other than Lionel?

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Hi, awesome that you’re getting into the Hobby. I’ve had really good luck with Atlas, MTH, and 3rd Rail Brands in O Gauge. I started out with HO when I was a kid and my Grandpa had O. I also into N scale from 1995 to present and still have HO. All scales have brands that can be very dependable. It really comes down to the size trains you like and also the variety of locomotives and rolling stock in the road names you can find that you like in each scale. O scale seems to have the largest variety of steam locomotives which are my favorite and the size makes them awesome to watch run.

[@willieeevans3953]

i have been done with lionel.i rather buy Williams.i have bought a few Williams engines and that company has stepped up there game on a quality built and great pulling engines.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed!

[@Crash_ton]

I'm so sad to see this go... I hope you keep the layout. I really look up to you and your Layout.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Hi, it’s not all going, as a matter of fact I’m working on the layout tonight! I love this hobby and have so many other ways to buy stuff. I also no longer want to keep stuff I don’t run, I’d rather other people enjoy it than let it sit in boxes unused. Thank you👍🙂

[@Crash_ton]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies are you selling it? Had to cut the video off because I had to get ready for bed

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Nope, I’m keeping a lot of it, and working on my layout right now for my next video. Thank you

[@frankdeuter6701]

I have had only one Lionel locomotive in the past... absolutely hated it. Ran it in Bluetooth and couldn't go 20 feet from it before it would stop and Start beeping. Just got one of new MTH mikados, absolutely beautiful and works amazing!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Sorry to hear about the Lionel experience. The MTH mikados are really nice, I’m glad to hear you like it, I’m a big MTH fan also! Thank you for the comment. 👍

[@margaretevans23]

If I ran that company, I would stick with postwar and prewar reproduction using the same mechanics but also offering newer body styles and cars. It turns out that the high-tech, outsourced manufacturing, and delicate detailing has created more problems.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed 👍

[@RonnyTheEngineer]

What kind of lionel trains do you have?

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

At this point I’ve sold almost all my Modern Lionel. I had a list of trains for sale I made in July, 95% of that list has sold. I might make another one this week.

[@RonnyTheEngineer]

What kind of modern trains do you have left? Can you describe them for me please?

[@BriansModelTrains]

WOW! I have not been impressed with Lionel over the last ten years. I noticed the new command base station coming in 2024 uses some of the worst connectors for LCS and the mini USB is garbage. How do the engineers not know this? Very sad state of affairs. MTH was not perfect and I wish DCS was open source but currently that is how I control my O scale trains.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank for the comment, I learned the hard way for sure. Yes, I have very few issues out of MTH, new and older. 👍

[@MrMark-hm9lk]

Wow you just saved me a lot of grief. I was planning on buying a Lionel train dor Christmas.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Ohh man, sorry to hear that. Christmas trains are a lot of fun. Understandable though. New Polar Express set we got had an issue right out of the box, if I hadn’t figured out what was wrong we couldn’t have run it, it came in on Christmas Eve for a run that night.

[@thomasdush8522]

Been there done that, sold my 2004 mustang and 2004 T bird for more trains! Big mistake? Trains are getting too expensive and very complicated electronically especially engines. Love the post war engines that I can fix and run!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Yeah, I regret it also. Should have kept the car or cars and bought less trains. Postwar are great for sure, I’ve scaled back on a lot of my collection, no post war though, I have kept all that I have and added some. 👍🙂

[@mikeoliver7363]

Thank you for the video quality is just not there anymore like you said.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

You’re welcome, I appreciate it Mike 👍

[@OldIronVideo]

Even the budget Lionel models are crazy exspinvie now

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I was shocked to see the price tag of $600 on Lionchief Plus Steamers for sure. When I first started in O in 2017, I bought three different ones, ranging in price from $299 to $399, they haven’t even changed much to demand $200 more dollars. It’s pretty sad for sure.

[@OffTheRailsPodcast925]

I am in my 20s and have loved this hobby all my life, the price of the new o scale is a dream killer, just a few of your locos could buy a running 7.5 gauge live steam locomotive. It kills me to hear how there treating you because in my perspective your considered a whale in the industry, And if they treat you that way what does that mean for the rest of use. I see many people in the comment sections question, if our hobby is going to fall apart. I don’t believe that’s the case even though main stream companies are completely dropping the ball with Service and quality. We are living at a very incredible time ware 3-D printing a decent model is more realistic than ever. You can easily find great examples By just looking up g scale 3d printed loco’s on KZbin. It’s time we take back our hobby and support businesses and people who value our hobby.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Well said! I agree 100%, I’m all in on the hobby. I love it, so I’ll never let a company change that. There is a great selection of preowned stuff on the market and will be for a long time. 3D printers bring an entirely new “what’s possible” to the hobby! Agreed, great times ahead! Thank you

[@raymondleggs5508]

G gauge is cheaper, ESPECIALLY if you buy Piko

[@kmcd1000]

Yep. My loco went on fire right under the tree.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Oh man, that’s disappointing to hear, and frustrating I’m sure. I hope you got it going again.

[@joeyd4593]

Sorry to hear, Mike. Have to imagine you're one of their top customers. Since you didn't mention it, I also wonder how helpful your local dealers were in advocating for you Note, I've been collection LGB since 1984 - never had one issue in hundreds of pieces (granted most is German though the newer asian mfg items have been good as well. Love to see some Cobra content from you! Why backdraft vs ERA vs Unique etc.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you, I’m still researching the Cobra stuff, like everything else that market has inflated prices right now as well. LGB and Marklin, both appear to have Berger initial quality construction and quality control. I’m not sure on LGB as far as ease of repair if they do have an issue, but Marklin is simple with readily available parts. Lionel might take a look at what both those companies keys to success are and replicate.

[@isaiahtheclassichistorian]

And this is why I stick to Traditional Lionel or conventional toy/model trains in general mainly Prewar, Postwar, and MPC. I do like some of the early TMCC stuff as they have their own set of charm. But the current stuff…never really was my thing..plus it’s way too much for me personally. Sorry that you had to go through all that trouble with Lionel as of recently.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! I like the stuff you like also, I came over from N and HO scale to O about 5 years ago. Getting prototypical stuff as well as the older stuff we’re equally as important, since that’s what I ran in my other scales. I definitely like the variety and nostalgia of the prewar, and Mpc is what was out when I was growing up in the 70’s and 80’s. 👍. Thank you for the comment and checking out my video!

[@isaiahtheclassichistorian]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies You’re welcome!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

🙂👍

[@kmmck]

I too had a dead on arrival Lionel train set with broken small parts. QC is definitely a problem which will discourage hobbyists.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed for sure, several people don’t really share their negative experiences or take it as “it is what it is” and keep buying more. I noticed a really bad trend, followed up with a poor experience from an executive level when giving them to chance to apologize and make it right, which they didn’t and wasted my time. Hopefully your experience with getting it resolved was better. Even the most basic thing, I explained to the lady and the executive both that our Polar express was missing the whistle and had a bad wiring harness, and they sent me a bell and said no harness was available. I fixed it myself and bought a whistle from local hobby shop.

[@whistleboardproductions]

Man I'm sorry you've had so many issues. The only reason I like modern Lionel is whistle steam. I really prefer TMCC and early Legacy cause they're much more reliable. I had to send a Legacy mikado back twice and had damage issues when it was returned. After sending it back a second time I've had no more issues (knock on wood). I just got the VISION Class A in and have had no issues yet (again, knock on wood). They're are plenty of older engines that I can fill my collection in with and won't be doing much if any pre-ordering for a while. Hopefully they can get things worked out!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Box thanks, yes, once worked on here in the US they tend to work, I’ve never had to send one back a second, my issue is that I had to send it back in the first place far too often. 😉. The two that I haven’t had an issue out of is my Visionline 2-10-10-2 and Niagara. I think the 2-10-10-2 was made in Korea, where was your class A made? Good to know because I really wanted the class A , mine is 1211 and is in waiting for me to pick it up.

[@whistleboardproductions]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies Yeah I totally get that you shouldn't have to send something you spent a ton of money on for repairs when it hasn't made it around a loop of track! I'm not 100% sure where the Class A was made but I can check. I think it's safe to get if you're still thinking about picking yours up.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you, I’ve watched a few of them run on KZbin now and just met a new friend I’ve been talking to that watches my channel, Jay Hines, he bought the fantasy paint scheme and it looks great on his channel! I just checked it out.

[@whistleboardproductions]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies Awesome! If you do end up getting one, I hope it runs well for you! I got 1218 and it's gorgeous. I'll be putting up a video of it soon.

[@justinp7497]

This is why i only collect prewar lionel, built well and any issues can be fixed yourself.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Not as much to go wrong with them sure. I used to have some prewar in my collection. Always ran reliably. One of my first videos of one of my Christmas layouts has a couple of them running on there I think.

[@theunforgiven9538]

My grandma left me a huge lot of Lionel trains , tracks , windmills everything is there a website or address I can send picks to I have no idea about them

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

If you have Facebook, I’m an admin for Pops O scale Train group. We also have a group “pops round house” for selling trains.

[@RandyCRR]

MTH has their problems too .I know , I have five dead soldiers from them.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I I haven’t had that yet, know on wood. 👍. I will say this, takeaway the cosmetic stuff from my 6 2022 preorders that I picked up this month, they are all still running. 😀. That’s a start!

[@BossSpringsteen69]

I've been hearing a lot about quality control issues with a few manufacturers. Might be time for the Boss to step in.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed! 👍

[@larryboysen5911]

My collection is pre-war tinplate, post war (1948-54) and MTH standard gauge, which I inherited from a good friend/collector who passed away recently. As an "old school guy" I don't want to get involved with all this hi-tech stuff and fussy detail which is delicate and breakable....plus the unit cost!! I have a special connection with the items I grew up with!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

We are on the same page, except for what we grew up with. I grew up with HO, which looked more like the real trains than O did until recently. I was excited to see Lionel, MTH, Kline and others start to make more realistic O scale, then finally switched over to it. I have some postwar also, because that’s what my Grandpa used to run for me. I’ve always been into building models and making them look as real as possible as well, we tend to migrate to the stuff we liked as a kid for sure.

[@larryboysen5911]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies I too, grew up with HO. My late dad built a fine HO Layout. We both worked on it...he scratched built rolling stock, as well as buildings. Many of the early HO cars were in kit form. I remember Varney as selling many of these. We also had two fine brass locomotives. I have always loved Lionel...today...most of my collection is the classic post war output, 1948-54. Your fabulous collection simply amazes me!!!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Very cool Larry! I’ve yet to get a HO brass locomotive, on my list! I really liked building the HO rolling stock kits as well. Thank you for your comment on my collection! 👍

[@mrk1075]

So glad to here you’re not getting out of trains. 🙂

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! 🙂

[@BMMEC2009]

Lionel did the same thing to me with my Legacy Maine Central gp7s . Missing parts, i called them at least a half dozen times, " we dont stock that part" " we will open a new one and send you the parts" " we will send the parts right out". I am also done with Lionel. I never saw one part from them.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That’s so crazy isn’t, they made them recently and don’t have any extra parts, then they should include extras in the box that are commonly missing or broken, like a lot of other companies do that manufacture in China. If I buy something brand new I expect it to be complete and flawless for the most part. Especially at the prices, and when it’s not they cannot even make it right. They should have bought yours back. Sorry to hear you went through the same stuff. It apparently happens a lot and many people just look past it and continue to buy.

[@dmarqu11]

Great video! I went through the same attitude over 20 years ago with Lionel when my Century Club Berkshire had a sound issue. They don't care about the customer, they know there is always another sucker that will buy their crap. Good for them. I haven't bought pretty any new Lionel since then. I did buy the first run of the Milwaukee Road 261 engine though, that was a home run. No purchases since then, what is that? 10 years now. More money for overpriced pinball machines instead from manufacturers that care about the customer even less than Lionel.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! The Milwaukee Road 261 is a cool locomotive! 👍

[@kevinrice7635]

Williams Weaver MTH all run away from Lionel they 🎉suck 🎉.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Those are some solid brands for sure. 👍

[@NVx_Cobra]

I bought a Lionel Rail Link SD45 #331 the truck was so terrible. The trucks couldn’t navigate around turns and got stuck somehow & the plow was to low and hit the track also. Luckily the guy who I got it from gave me a full refund and I bought a SD33ECO (SD40-2) which should be here in a few days. I hope the ECO works fine.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Sorry to hear that! I hope you have better luck with it.

[@Craiggg12345]

I have that exact engine and mines been fine

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That’s good to hear for sure. 👍

[@UrMomsChauffer]

I would consider getting a lawyer.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I thought about it for sure. Thanks!

[@jrtrains1126]

I just brought two SD40-2 BN One non powered and powered. I loved it but basically they were junk. The coupling on the powered units were sagging down to a point that they can’t couple the non powered engine. The non powered unit couplers keeps opening up we’re in motion pulling only a few cars. I had to secure the couplers with zip ties to prevent them from opening up. The sagging couplers on the powered unit are corrected by using a rubber band and secured it by attaching it to the railings so they are not sagging. For almost 900 dollars for the 2 units I should not have to go through this. I called the hobby shop and they told me to call Lionel directly. I figured they should give another set but they probably have the same problem too. I collected MTHs with no problems. This was my first new order from Lionel. Bummer.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Man, that is a bummer for sure, I’m sorry to hear that. I thought I had really bad luck, I’m not a complainer for sure, but no I am truly hearing about so many other people having my same experience. It is very disappointing, Lionel’s warranty department must be overloaded which is why they lost one of my locomotives and sent me someone else’s completely differently model than what I sent back. I hope you have better luck than me with getting the issues resolved, you shouldn’t have to use rubber bands or accept poor quality for your hard earned money. Thanks for the comment and for checking out my video.

[@buddy-wrenchgarage]

Ill have to agree with you unfortunately, i love the detail and performance of the modern stuff when it works, but its just that, WHEN it works. Although im amongst the younger group in model railroading (22y/o) ill no longer buy anything made overseas, from anyone. If im paying a few hundred bucks for a locomotive i want to be confident that itll last long enough to pass down to my future kids and not just be a shelf queen. I now only buy pre and postwar o gauge and prewar standard gauge, and ot any repro stuff either, if you want something of quality nowadays you gotta go back and buy stuff that was made by people who actuality cared about what theyre making and the value of your dollar, they just take yoir money and give you junk now

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you for your comment. I have definitely weighed sticking with just my postwar Lionel stuff several times for three rail. You can get some more recent American made Lionel that is very reliable. When they moved production back from Mexico briefly after the MPC era, most everything I have from that time has no issues. It also had “inspected by” initials on the wrapping of the locomotives before put into the box at the factory. I agree, I’d rather not buy anything made over seas with the least expensive possible parts assembled by the lowest bidder. I love when I see kids, 20’s, and 30’s age group in trains. Awesome that you also appreciate the early stuff! 🙂👍🚂

[@pancake2662]

Another thing that is changing significantly Amazon is starting to sell more direct from Lionel.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

It appears Lionel or supply chain have cleaned that up some as far as prices. Pre Covid you could find some really low prices, especially on a year or two old models. I bought my Santa Fe Pacific Lionchief plus for $299 off Amazon back in 2018 for example and the Batman Lionchief set was as low as $219 sometimes. Now there is a lot less for sale on there than in the past. Could just be inventory supply issues, it will be interesting to see what happens in the future. I know Lionel called and sent my local shop a letter explaining they are working on trying to get more consistent pricing. My dealer pays about $30 more for a Lionchief set than what some other dealers and Amazon are able to sell it for on a regular basis. So many inconsistencies when working with Lionel direct or distributors right now for the remaining Lionel dealers.

[@freedomlawnservice1987]

My uncle and dad owned a train store for many moons and mth trains we sold rarely came back for repairs but Lionel came back all day long, absolute garbage and Lionel would always discontinue parts. It was terrible

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you, I appreciate the comment. I bought several older MTH ps2 3Volt and 5Volt, and PS3 the past two months, most never used. They all had 3 things in common, 1. All worked out of the box, and I installed BCR’s in the PS2’s first. 2. No cosmetic flaws 3. No missing or broken parts. Amazing! 23 locomotives opened in a row with no issues, I cannot make it through opening 2 or 3 in a row with the other company, brand new, expensive, what is supposed to be high end stuff. I tend to agree with what your family experienced as well, because I have too. 👍

[@amadigidigaula771]

Gee how unlucky. So far I just haven’t had any real issues - and I import retail into the UK (!) I haven’t been ordering the same quantity as you, but it’s enough to be confident with their quality. I’m sorry you’ve had such a tough time.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you, I appreciate it, I have decent luck with older Lionel stuff so I’ve held onto a lot of that so can still have plenty of fun. 🚂🙂

[@joeorillio1007]

To say nothng about their paint jobs and detail work. Look no further than the latest Dreyfuss Hudson. Ghost gray/white color, wrong striping, tender stripes on cars did not line up with tender, black stanchions, black trucks and to cap it off, the cylinder covers are painted a more correct dark grey. No excuse for this as all they had to do was copy their own Smithsonian set. All the cars and engine are painted incorrectly.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I agree 100%, I sold my TMCC with Odyssey version when I heard they were going to make them with Legacy, then all these bad experiences happened with my preorders that came in and I made this video. Never ordered a new one and I see dealers are having a lot of trouble selling them and many people I know that did order them put them up for sale. Getting the paint right is so basic in my option, paints going to go on, might as well take the time to make sure it’s the correct color…..lol. Thank you for your comment!

[@DeerbrookSouthernRR]

At least some of your engines ran for a little bit. I bought a used lionchief that the seller claimed didn’t run so I figured what the heck let’s give it a shot. Put 16 volts to it and the sounds came on as normal and then BANG. Sounded like a gunshot. Can’t say that ever happened with any of my MTH stuff

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

In 2018 I had that happen on one MTH dealer appreciation GG1 set. It was PS2 5Volt and I was new to O and didn’t know about checking the battery and speaker before running one that was never used. I blame my inexperience because I’ve never had an issue with MTH since. Knock on wood. That was a set over 20 years old so I wasn’t upset and I had it repaired. The price of the set was half of when it was released as well. Now, the current Lionel stuff, happens all to often much like your experience. Thank you for sharing. I’ve personally had really great experiences with MTH, nothing I’ve purchased brand new has never had an issue, and the couple things I’ve had an issue with that were used, parts were easy to come buy to repair.

[@trainwild]

Hey Michael, Thanks for sharing this story. I just found your channel and subscribed. I really appreciate the info. your train room looks great! 👍

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you for your compliment and thank you for subscribing! 👍

[@trainwild]

Your welcome!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

🙂

[@siverene]

All train manufacturers have issues. You spent more money than you intended (it happens), sell off what you don't want and buy that new car. No reason to bash a decent company. I have been buying Lionel for the past 3 years and have had no issues. I sent back two things-BN box car (damaged during shipping) and a locomotive that had a gear issue after running it constantly for months (it was still under warranty and Lionel repaired it with no questions asked).

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Sounds like you’ve been lucky, not the general consensus though. Also, I buy a lot of trains in O from other manufacturers and have had zero issues with new in box, current model purchases. Also several other scales, MTH, BLI, Kato, Atlas, Athearn…. Definitely no physical defects, scratches, or paint issues ever. Just Lionel, for being a great manufacturer, they need to get their act together. There is video after video on KZbin of people having issues. I’d like to love Lionel, once was a huge advocate, just can’t accept it any more. Thanks for your comment and I wish you continued luck with them.

[@siverene]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies I wish all the best of luck to you, too. It's a great hobby (although expensive :) ). Keep us posted on your progress and thoughts regardless if anyone disagrees. The best course to progress is discussion.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Absolutely! Thank you so much, I will for sure.

[@RABSTRAINS]

WOW! I am sorry you had to deal with that horrible customer service. Lionel was a quality brand and it appears they have dove to the bottom.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I appreciate the comment, they are in a position to dominate the O scale community for sure, and I think they know that, arrogance for sure. By the way, I’m a big time into Hotwheels! The first and longest running passion I’ve had with collecting! Thanks for checking out my channel! So when I have a problem with a $1800 locomotive, I’m always thinking…”do you know how many Hotwheels that could have been!” Lol

[@RABSTRAINS]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies that is too funny.👍👍😂

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

😂

[@308hit]

Really a shame. I'm a collector/operator for 30 years. This should just not happen.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you

[@michaellaird6192]

How sad to hear this. Glad I found this video prior to buying Lionel trains.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I was definitely sad as well, having just started in O in 2017 and excited about the heritage and history of Lionel. Fortunately there is a massive selection of preowned out there and other brands that have kept my interest in O.

[@larryboysen5911]

You're welcome! One item which I'm so glad to see...more younger folks are carrying on the hobby!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Absolutely, thank you!

[@paulmatulavich7321]

Hey Mike, do you have the Lionel Pioneer Seed specialty train set from 2001? It was made expressly for employees of the Pioneer Feed Company, limited to 1200 sets. Looking for a sealed set.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Hi Paul, no, I don’t have that one. Thanks for asking though.

[@larrypolash5928]

I was curios what issues you had with the lionchief line I have 5 engines 3 Christmas and Bethlehem Steel and PRR and I thank God so far no Issues . I have also heard these horror stories from my friends that buy Legacy And Vision line I'm not in the group to spend more than $400 dollars on an engine I am taking your information as I move forward and look at other Manufactures. Now I realize why my friends say stay old conventional. I only got in the Hobby 4 years ago after becoming empty nesters. I'm Very green and not very knowledgeable in the hobby I started with O scale not sure if that was a mistake . I thank you for your honesty God Bless Wish you well on your Cobra.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Hi Larry, the ready to run sets and stand alone Lionchief Plus locomotives had been really reliable for my family and I. Some of our most run trains on our Christmas and Halloween layouts. Then in 2021 we bought the Elf Work Train and the Polar Express Bluetooth 5.0 sets in December to run on our Christmas Layout. Both had messed up wire harness, pinched and pulled to tight, causing locomotives to not run and spark if we could get them to move. My local repair shop fixed the 0-6-0 tank locomotive for me and he explained what was wrong. The polar express set came in the day before Christmas Eve and didn’t work, I know what he did to fix the elf train locomotive so I looked for the same issues in the Polar Express and fixed it myself. The pilot screw was also not in all the way and shorted out against the center rail until we figured out that might have been the bigger contributing issue.

[@ricko3242]

Still a very relevent video given the recent L1 Mikados and the Dreyfuss hudson with the oddest paint ever. Getting back to that cobra😉 Do the "right " thing and put that 427 in there, preferrably with dual quads as it should be. Too many guys dropping a new coyote 5.0 in there, a great motor, but theres no " history" there. On a side note, ironically i picked up a 04 terminator cobra last summer with 15k on it. A good motivation to stop new purchases from Lionel as well. I was surprised whem Mike Reagan left Lionel several years ago. Now we know why.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you, I appreciate your comment. Sounds like you have a great Cobra! Yes, a 427 is a must have, I agree for sure! 👍

[@azslotracer]

Good luck with your train sales and new ventures into your Cobra!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you Glenn! 🙂

[@sirlimpsalot7767]

100% agree with this video almost a year later, their prices have gone up and quality is worse, more plastic on everything but way higher costs, i just was lucky enough to buy a whole set Lionel Pennsylvania flyer 2004 version or so ebay for 60, it was in amazing shape, only issue out of box is the smoke system does not puff just slowly comes out which i will look into, I recently also had a bachmann HO engine die out with only about 4 hours total use in two years, contacted Bachmann and they said nope not our fault cant fix, wanted 45 dollars to fix and 2 month turnaround, sad to see a great former hobby go down the drain,

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

It is the way of the world these days, everyone wants to make sales to make money with a varying degree of quality products and support when there is an issue. I mainly buy preowned now. More affordable and if there is an issue I can fix it myself or get it fixed and not be anywhere close to the price of brand new.

[@MojaveModelRailroad]

Lionel is killing local train stores. I work in a train store and we get HO Sets back all the time for poor track, we get customers upset because they have to deal with Lionel for repairs and they are horrible. From a train store view, they are killing the desire for stores to carry their product. They show retail price on their site and we always keep our cost below that, however we just found out that Lionel has their own Facebook and Amazon store and selling their product a few dollars over what we pay cost. How can a store stock a product that we cant' even make a small profit off of. We have tried to contact Lionel for months including our distributor on why they are selling products on Amazon so cheap compare to what we can even sell them. We can't get an answer from anyone. Makes you not want to carry their products.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I am so sorry to hear this! I hear the same thing from our local hobby shops unfortunately. Hobby shops are my favorite stores by the way! It’s awesome you work at one. 🙂. All of our shops around here have scaled back their model railroading selection, most O scale isles are now HO, N, or have turned into slot cars and RC stuff. Makes it tough on us model railroaders but I wouldn’t want to sell something that I couldn’t make profit on to pay the bills or have to deal with disappointing customers by selling them bad products. Hopefully Lionel can get their act together for you all as well! Needs to be good for the hobby shops, the customers, and the overall hobby for everyone to be happy and prosper. Thank you for your comment! 🙂👍

[@MojaveModelRailroad]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies Yeah we have many coming in looking more for Post War stuff or older models. Many want MTH, Atlas. I agree we are expanding the HO Scale but especially the N Scale line. KATO we can't even keep in the store lately. The previous owner is a huge O Scale guy and even he, who has been in the hobby for well over 50 years hates the direction and quality Lionel is now putting out. Keep up the great videos and thank you for sharing.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! I will! Looks like you have a cool KZbin channel! I just subscribed and will check it out.

[@cecilyoung5042]

It is a shame that American business today , have loss the meaning of customer service . As much business and money that you have given them ,it would not hurt them to let you have your choice of one of their premium locomotives ,just to reify and compensate you for their poor customer service towards you and rectify any problems that you are having with your purchases . The $150.00 , just shows what Lionel think of it's customers . Sometimes ,companies become too large and they forget the consumers who made them prosperous .

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you for your comment. Agreed, I would have been happy with a call back, an apology, and making the products as advertised, complete, undamaged, and in working order. I’m not difficult to please, just give me what I paid for to begin with. 😉. Seems like the way of the world today, too many people have lowers their standards and expectations which enables it all to happen.

[@av8tor1908]

I made the same move years ago, got tired of the junk arriving at my door step. Liberating.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

It’s definitely time for me to be liberated and just enjoy the hobby with minimal corporate BS to deal with! Thank you for your comment. 🙂

[@huntercoleman460]

Sorry you had these problems Michael. You can always buy Lionel stuff in the aftermarket like me. Plenty of stuff on eBay.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That’s where I started, was all preowned. I think it gave me a false impression because people must have already had all the warranty work and bugs worked out before I bought it preowned from them. 😉

[@captiansnickers5201]

Just bought a brand new vision line class A. Ran great for a few minutes but now the cab light blinks and it won't move. Will get it repaired and then possibly traded for ho scale locomotive's. Have had better reliability from locomotives half the size my whole life.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Man, sorry to hear that. I should run my Lionel stuff more while it’s still covered under warranty, but I’d almost rather pay the local shop to fix it once it’s out of warranty to avoid shipping and Lionel damaging it. The local guy understands they cost a lot and people don’t want them damaged, but Lionel cut off all warranty stations now and insist warranty work is sent back to them. Definitely a big problem for me. I agree, I haven’t purchased anything else Lionel that is new since my last preorders came in, but have bought a lot of preowned standard gauge, Z, S, HO, and some brand new MTH O releases. Now with everything going on with China I refuse to buy anything made in China and fund a possible war or conflict against us. I’m surprised our government is still allowing it, but big business doesn’t care and either does our government apparently….I stop with the politics, lol. It is just really concerning and seemingly not many people are worried about. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@swohs100]

I mostly agree with you; the problem is MTH and Atlas are just as bad or worse. High-end K-line and Weaver stuff was good. Competition is the solution, sadly the market is shrinking.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I’ve had O issues out of my Atlas stuff which has been great. Only a couple MTH locomotives have had an issue and out of over 150 MTH locomotives that’s not a bad track record. I expect an issue here and there, just not 8 out of 10 brand new things I buy, unacceptable defect/flaw rate. lol. The market is shrinking but I do buy a lot of preowned, there will always be a lot of that available and weaver and K-line are always great finds. 👍

[@motherlandone6300]

I don’t buy anything past 1995. It makes no sense when I currently operating a 6220 bell ringing Santa Fe diesel switcher from 1950. Bought it in 1993 and it came in a raggedy original box. It’s in great condition too and has run without fail. One of the best investments I’ve ever made. I’m supposed to put up with modern junk when a 73 year old Lionel engine works with fabulous dependability? Lionel has gone mad. This locomotive didn’t cost me five mortgage payments either.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Nice locomotive, I understand your perspective for sure. Thank you for your comment. 👍

[@doctordeath.5716]

You are right about lionel, they have gone down hill and they are letting there name go to there head and they are way over priced. I will only buy the older stuff they sell at different Hobbie shops that are selling it used and on consignment

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That’s how I started out in O, only buying preowned with the bugs worked out, except for MTH, I buy both preowned and brand new releases. I have definitely switched back to that strategy after only 5 years with of buying new Lionel and preorders. I don’t need new trains that bad to deal with the BS and defect rate, I’ll switch entirely back to N and HO before I go through this BS anymore. 😉

[@stevenplyler6306]

I don’t like the Lionel shenanigans going on now such as what has been said already and I don’t like that Lousy Lie-O-nel’s only sells Lionchief sets in their Catalogs but doesn’t still produce a few new conventional AC Transformer controled sets along with the remote controled sets like they still did back in 2013 and a few other years after as well Etc Etc !

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

For sure! 👍

[@animalyze7120]

I'll never understand the craze of O scale or Lionell trains. Obnoxiously large and look so phony with the 3 rail design left over from a bygone era. Lionel always was and will be the Tyco of Large scale trains, at least the American Flyer S gauge stuff looked a bot more real even with the horrible cardboard insulators on the metal ties design. I grew up in the 70s and by then Grandpa and his friends had already switched to HO, I never did see his American Flyers around the Christmas tree as my Mother and Uncles did as he had already stowed them away. I did get them when he passed and still have them though I never did run them due to fear they might burn up from age and wires being rotted or whatever. The large stuff never looked real to me always seemed very toyish and aside from folks nostalgia were never worth the effort to setup or waste that much space on. HO and N scale have become staples for very good reasons the least of which is better construction and ease of maint. Hope all goes well with your new direction good luck!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you! I switched to O mainly for the size and nostalgia, and it had been a struggle coming from N and HO when it comes to the 3rail thing. It is fun to run and easier to work on for sure. I’m in my 50’s now and the N and HO are harder to see and work on for sure. I had a post for a hand rail come out on one of my N scale big boys and it took a good 30 minutes to get it all back together, and the hole was too tiny to see! I was so frustrated! Lol. Thanks for your comment. 👍

[@cathrynm]

'Focus and presentation' are what make a collection best, and think, yeah, good that you figured out you were buying too broadly before it was too late.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed! Thank you 🙂

[@BigTexJohnson]

Lionell needs to move their production facilities out of China to a different country because we are about to go to war with them regardless…

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I totally agree, I’ve been learning a lot about the recent developments around their actions. I’m surprised anyone is buying anything from them and our government is allowing us to do business with them. We are funding a country that is not a fan of our country, because big business wants to have larger profits. Not a smart strategy.

[@davidcasey8427]

Hi Mike…sorry to hear of your problems with Lionel. When I got back into the hobby years ago, it was the time that MTH was coming into the marketplace. MTH was coming out with great products while Lionel was just repainting the same old stuff. Well, I have stuck with MTH over the years and have been satisfied with them. However, lately I have considering buying Lionel, I like their high end steam engines. Listening to your comments has put a hold on that. Given the situation, it sounds like you handled the “just toys” comment better than I would have. Glad it didn’t turn you against the hobby. I retire in May and will be starting “my dream” layout.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you David! I love my MTH as well. The only O scale my son and I had up until 2017, was a MTH starter set for around the Christmas tree that the hobby shop I bought it from recommended as a “better set for the money” back in 1999. I liked Lionel because that’s what my Grandpa had so started buying a lot of it in 2017 until now. I just opened my CSX set for the first time, the one in the video from today, and now that Legacy Diesel doesn’t work. The sound board appears to be bad! Good grief! I have 3x as many MTH Locomotives with proto2 or proto3. I’ve only had 3 that have needed something repaired, and one was my own fault.

[@davidcasey8427]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies The hits just keep on coming, those Legacy diesels are not cheap. I agree with the hobby shop, MTH starter sets are better for the money. My grandsons receive an MTH starter set for their first Christmas. I was happy to see Atlas O pick up lots of MTH tooling and DCS. I just purchased the Atlas O US Army hospital train with the new MTH Army medical reefer cars and the Army ambulances. I also purchased two of the WiFi TIUs along with some rolling stock from Atlas. Are you receiving the daily MTH e-mails showing their latest releases?

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

That’s some nice stuff! I didn’t jump on those military passenger cars fast enough, they sold out quick, everywhere! Yes, I get Atlas and MTH emails. Atlas is my favorite rolling stock, and MTH is my second Favorite rolling stock, but favorite locomotives. I love Atlas locomotives also, they just didn’t have a robust line up, now that’s changing since they acquired several MTH models, so I’ll still have plenty of options to add to my collection. 🙂

[@joezuccardo3245]

Lionel doesn't even show up at the York train show any more

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I know right! Not true hobby enthusiasts anymore, run by bean counters now, that’s what happens to a lot of once great, American companies. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@dennis2494]

I purchased an Atlas Pabst Blue Ribbon tank car, and it is a beautiful car that arrived in perfect condition. I also purchased a Lionel Budweiser tank car, and the artwork seems to be a vinyl or some other material that is wrapped around the body of the car, the artwork has marks or dents in it in various places that detracts from the look of the car. Why can't Lionel produce a beautiful looking car like Atlas did, the artwork on the car would be fantastic looking if it was painted on properly or whatever method that they used was done with care and was smooth and free of obvious defects, I expect it from Menards but not Lionel.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Agreed! Atlas cars are my favorite! I’ve never had one that disappointed me.

[@jsgtrains3176]

Wow Mike, I am really sorry to hear. You are one of the good guys. Not someone trying to take advantage of Lionel. Just someone who wants what they paid for! They will not last pulling stunts like this! Sounds to me like they need a new CEO. There are not a lot of people that can afford to plunk down 2 grand plus. Thet will soon find that out the hard way. I am really tempted to just go with 3rd rail, MTH, and Atlas, and forget Lionel! This is just really sad. I have thoroughly enjoyed watching your collection grow as well as your layout, and your incredible talent. I will call You soon My friend.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Thank you Joe, it is very sad for sure. Talk to you soon!

[@jsgtrains3176]

@@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies Thinking about it last night. How much effort would it have taken to put 2 magnets in and envelope snd mail at their cost to you. Simple Customer Service!

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

Absolutely, I was not asking for the world, only parts they lost when they worked on the locomotive.

[@escape150]

Lionel quality totally sucks!!!!! I’ll never buy another thing made by them. I still love my MTH products but I have no use for Lionel.

[@Crazy4TrainsToysNHobbies]

I’ve had my bad experiences with them now as well. Yes, MTH is my preferred company as well. 👍