Gordeeva & Grinkov vs. Mishkutenok & Dimitriev

28 years since Lillehammer Olympics and still some people claim that M&D should have won gold and not G&G...
But should they?

[@mariequichocho898]

Katia and Sergei are far and above the field in All Aspects. They are Beautiful, Connected, Charismatic, Polished, Masterful Tacticians. (The Problem with This Awesome Couple Is!: They’re So!!!!! Darn GOOD! It Looks Easy!). That Is “Indicative!!!” Of The “Stuff” of Champions. They’re Unrivaled by Any Pair’s Team; Past or Present. You just can’t Create, Develop, or Fabricate G&G’s Intrinsic Factors. The End

[@Kristin2885]

I remember Lillehammer. I had no idea there was a controversy. M&D were good, but G&G were exceptional and the gold standard, and in my opinion, they still are. I saw them skate live once. They had a rare quality that can't even translate to televised recordings and it's hard to put into words. Their blades were absolutely silent on the ice and their speed and grace was just mind blowing. Never saw another pairs team that could even compare. They were a once in a lifetime talent.

[@sweetheart8624]

you were so lucky to see them skating live

[@happydaisy519]

I love the way he held her head gently at the end of their performance in the last video. So much love expressed in just one gesture. Though it's sad that their union was cut shortly and unexpectedly, that kind of love endures. Katia has moved on, but I believe Sergei will always have a special place in her and everyone's hearts forever...

[@user-bb2do5pl7h]

Куда Катя ушла??

[@cathleenwarner1778]

She has always said Sergei was the love of her life, but yes, she is on her 3rd marriage and lived her life in full

[@happydaisy519]

@cathleenwarner1778 I bought the book "My Sergei" last year. It was signed by Katia ( I would like to believe it's her signature, haha, but I'm not 100 per cent sure). Their love story is heart-warming. Makes you feel good about falling in love and being lucky to find a unique love like that. I'm thankful that Katia has shared their love story. It's such a wonderful way to honour her beloved Sergei.

[@marirothbauer5407]

Sergei & Katia were definitely the best they skate as one so blended Together. 💘 💋❤

[@tamarakonovalova178]

Я восхищяюсь.Такой великий труд.Браво.

[@user-kf6zg1pq3u]

Зачем спустя 30 лет сравнивать две прекрасные пары? Ведь никто не предполагал,что Сергею жить осталось 1 год и 9 месяцев. А Артур в Нагано вновь чемпионом будет,но уже с Оксаной. Эта история прекрасного вида спорта.

[@pebs65]

G and G were absolutely breathtaking.

[@nancydugan5283]

I don’t understand any of the technical terms or what is a good lift or jump. I just love watching the pairs skating. Therefore, I just enjoy the grace, beauty and appearance of the couple. And to me, G and G are unsurpassed in their presentation. Sheer grace and beauty. Love watching them more than any other couple.

[@Timbergal]

NO comparison…none

[@Nikestales]

G&G’s style is very textbook, almost always perfect. Even in the 80s, they always made it look easy that’s why people tend to forget how good they really are

[@marirothbauer5407]

Sergei & Katia are so more perfect than the other two Absolutely. ❤❤❤

[@JoolieEm]

This is still so painful to watch 💔🥺

[@drsuessl]

I really enjoyed this.

[@gicxx]

Great video analysis! I agree, G&G had incomparable unison, chemistry, and technical excellence that made them the legends they are today.

[@ggd210]

Great analysis!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@annaswanson176]

G and G are the best. They make every move look effortless.

[@amyvoss1976]

M&D always seemed so clunky and frantic to me.

[@oravaskvirel]

To me, they always look like two hokey players skating pairs. OK, they have learnt many things, yet they remained hokey skaters. Moskvina, their coach, has never been good at cleaning techniques and rectifying errors, but she was excellent at hiding flaws under flamboyant performances, which made ordinary spectators scream in awe and give standing ovations but could never deceive judges, or those who can see behind circus tricks

[@pamconnelly8798]

right on

[@mbhabibti]

No one can compare to G&G. I am shocked people think they didn't deserve gold. Their grace, artistry, and chemistry were unmatched and still are to this day. They are truly the best pairs skaters ever.

[@loverofcalifornia3619]

G & G best ever, always and forever! Never a doubt in my mind. They were astounding. Such beauty in their skates.

[@getnetball]

Very interested, thanks. G & G were utterly brilliant. Sergei such an amazing talent.

[@wilhelmina8843]

I watched the pairs that Olympics and I thought that while they were all good, G&G were clearly superior. I thought technically they weren't as good as they sometimes can be (which is a very high standard) but their presentation was clearly the best. Their overall skating was so clearly better - great coverage, speed, body lines, execution of almost all of the elements, synchronicity - I thought it was so obvious that it never occurred to me that them winning should have been questioned. I've learned a lot since 94' but it hasn't changed my mind. If anything, it's only reinforced how great G&G were. The only team that I admire like this is the dance team of Virtue and Moir. Thank you for the video! It was nice to revisit it.

[@Nikestales]

Even in 1988, g&g have perfected the lifts, that’s why for other people it’s nothing new so they didn’t appreciate it. Imagine having textbook technique as normal😅

[@alwayzatiger1]

I think they had the same choreographer if I’m not mistaken

[@wilhelmina8843]

@@alwayzatiger1 They did. Marina Zueva. She was their choreographer at both Olympics. She coached many great skaters.

[@msbhomein]

Great job! I'd love to see you do it Pairs 2002 in Salt Lake City

[@HausdorffLover]

I'm on it🫡

[@Jude74]

G&G are the gold standard.

[@soneto8205]

To be honest, I’ve never watched these kinds of videos and I’ve thought they’re boring:) but now I’m eager to learn combination spin. It was great 🤭 just give the address and don’t say anything 😂😂😂

[@HausdorffLover]

I'm happy you liked it😊

[@Timbergal]

I agree…especially the female commentator

[@user-co6wh1bq5c]

Как жаль, что нет перевода на русский. Все отключено. Ничего не поняла. Я смотрела эти соревнования в 94 и у меня не было сомнения насчёт победителей. Артур и Наталья были хороши, но как-то неряшливы и грубоваты. Но это почерк Москвиной. Её пары всегда выступали на грани. Если и притянули победу Кате и Сергею, то немножко. Только из-за видных ошибок. Рассинхрон во вращении и ошибка в прыжках Сергея. В остальном они были идеальны настолько, что дать им второе место было бы преступлением. Мир бы этого не простил.

[@HausdorffLover]

I'm sorry I do not know Russian, that is why I wrote it in English :(

[@qazimoto8493]

Beautifully done comparison and analysis. M&D gave an amazing performance that night in Lillehammer but you simply can’t question the result. G&G remain unsurpassed in so many ways. The tricks may have advanced since 1994, but no one will ever have the intrinsic quality of Katia and Sergei. They are for the ages.

[@jc3drums916]

You present a compelling case. A lot of people don't know what to look for, including myself (at least, not back then). G&G's flaws were more obvious to the layperson (Sergei spinning a little faster than Katia on the side-by-side, Sergei jumping a 1S instead of 2S, and one more I'm forgetting ATM), which may be why a lot of people, myself included, thought M&D had the better free skate. (Which still doesn't necessarily mean they should have won, but most laypeople seem to forget about the short program.) But yeah, G&G's lifts and throws were incomparable. Katia's entry into the forward death spiral, with her free leg in back, looks so much more elegant than everyone else's. (BTW, maybe it isn't fair to compare the lifts and throws - Katia is so tiny, it must be easier for G&G. 😅) Before this video, I hadn't watched M&D's skate since Lillehammer, and it's surprising just how much smoother and more effortless (and faster!) G&G were. It would be interesting to have a judge score the skates using IJS.

[@HausdorffLover]

Well most people see the major flaws, which G&G's were more obvious. But if you compare the overall technique and flow, no one compares to Gordeeva & Grinkov. + There is a video comparing G&G and M&D under IJS!!! Still G&G would win! I'll share the link with you: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qV7Op6xsidWrqc0

[@marijeangalloway1560]

Yes I agree G & G should have won. One poinr, though, which someone else also raised: Sergei was obviously a far taller, bigger, and stronger man than Artur, and Katia a much smaller, shorter, and lighter woman than Natalia. Katia looks about half Sergei's height! while Artur and Natalia are much closer in height, something you see more often with dance couples than with pairs. It's kind of amazing he can lift her over his head at all! (Maybe this had something to do with his showing up at the next Olympics with a new slimmer, lighter partner.) I don't recall seeing this 1994 competition, so I don't know how M&D's routine compared with their gold-medal winning performance two years earlier in Albertville, when G&G were not competing. All I know is that, watching that incredible free skate, flaws and all, moved me more than any pairs performance before or since that time. The emotion and passion, particularly from Artur, as though he were deperately wooing this extraordinary elusive woman, the unusual moves incorporating her incredible flexibility, through to the final pose with him holding one leg and one arm of hers as she lay stretched on the ice. It was magical, unforgettable, and I will take it ahead of cool perfection any day.

[@joemachunda]

I didnt remember much of Gn Gs program but I remember many things in MnDs. . I love GnG but I guess I love the more athletic MnD

[@anja1627]

@@marijeangalloway1560 What actually sets G&G unique is that Grinkov just doesn't slow down during the throws and lifts.

[@user-me1me4ys7i]

.ок

[@MrErinholbert]

Give it a rest

[@mathieulanniel9235]

Great video but for fairness it would be nice to add that GG were completely out of sync at the end of their parallel spin and even worse after the double flip…

[@HausdorffLover]

You are right about the spin, but I think I put the flip

[@TheLkell00]

I think that Artur struggling with throws and lifts makes M&D superior.

[@pamelahermano9298]

M&D were sloppy, I think that’s the main difference.

[@user-bn8uf2fp7l]

У нее нет прав зарегистрированных на это. А тренер и хореограф получили от них под дых хорошо.

[@jjsmith4829]

lol there is defo a pair that this author prefers. be interesting to mark both programs using the current point system to determine how many TCS points each pair earns and then mark them for PCS values.

[@HausdorffLover]

Well hopefully there's a video that has done this already, and still G&G would win! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qV7Op6xsidWrqc0

[@cherylburton959]

No comparison. Katia and Sergei are the greatest ever!

[@joemachunda]

I think MD had harder elements, GnG did the same lifts, throws ect they'd been doing for several years in performance and competition. Its apples and oranges. The person posting this obviously likes GnG bettet

[@HausdorffLover]

Well I made a 10 minute video to describe why G&G were better :)) It's not something personal!

[@Adriana-vp1rm]

Bla bla bla.

[@dominiquevergos9289]

I agree with you. Every time I say that I'd found M/D better, I am told that I know nothing about technique, which I admit. But I assume Dick Button knows a bit about technique and when commenting 1994 Goodwill Games he said that M/D were outstanding. (kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJ3JcpZ-q6h_rK8) To be completrely honest, I'll add that I have never liked G/G because I have the feeling of watching the same thing over and over.

[@lflagr]

G&G had obvious mistakes that night and should have come in 2nd. One of the funny things about figure skaing at the 94 Olympics was that in all 4 events, the gold medalist had a lot of controversy attached. None of the gold medalists were decisive, clear-cut winners. Unlike the 98 olympics, where the rightful gold medalist won all the events. (Including Dimetriev in paris!)

[@HausdorffLover]

There is a video that counts both M&D and G&G's score with the GOE system, still G&G win! With both 6 and GOE system they are the winners...

[@ericapalmore6266]

Love G&G , but Arthur and Natalia outperformed them.

[@user-bb2do5pl7h]

В чем??

[@lesleywallace8773]

M and D had a program that was outstanding Art.. you are nitpicking .

[@HausdorffLover]

I guess the descriptions in the video were enough. Figure Skating is not all about "art", there's a technical part as well. However G&G if not more, were as artistic as M&D. It's about the kind of art they represented. You liked M&D's style more.

[@jc3drums916]

Since this video intended to show that the judges made the right call, nitpicking is both justified and necessary. Don't be bitter just because Woshan Sheik revealed flaws in what you thought was the better skate.

[@Natalia-hx5tx]

Вы серьезно?. Горбатая спина Дмитриева,манера скольжения,даже костюмы - всё в минус. А вращение какое не эстетичное , партнёрша головой вниз партнёр сверху,держит ее за ногу...это тупая программа, выполнение тех.элементов под музыку

[@dominiquevergos9289]

I agree with you about M/D program and so did Dick Button while commenting 1994 Goodwill Games (kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJ3JcpZ-q6h_rK8). I admit I don't know much about technique but I assume Dick Button does!

[@leonidasse]

Lol while being heavily biased in your “evaluation” each point you’re trying to cover proves the exact opposite 😂: 1. Side by side jumps: 2x axels GG vs 3xtoeloops MD ➡️ 👑 MD 2. Twists: maybe next time catch Natalia in the highest point for fair comparison lol. 👑 GG 3. Lifts: GG are faster across the ice bc of the music, sure. But MD’s lifts are more innovative. 👑MD 4. Throws: 2xaxel + 3xsal GG vs 3xtoe + 3xsal MD ➡️👑MD lol what are you even discussing here? 5. Spins: complete lack of unison of GG which you “accidentally” forget lol. ➡️ 👑MD 6. Death spiral: Natalia’s position was textbook. Still ➡️👑GG 7. Pair spin: like no discussion here ➡️👑MD 8. Combo jumps: GG’ sloppy landing by Serg ➡️👑MD 9. Step sequence: can’t pick, both are gorgeous😍 MD had a far more difficult program technically. Artistry: it’s all MD. Passion, expression, emotions. Even that shaky moment by Arthur in the step sequence is perfectly sewed into that passionate part of the program and what these two were conveying there. Plus with all the innovative moves and positions MD would easily win this in the second mark nowadays. In the first mark as well anyway. Key elements in pair skating being unison and lines? I’d argue. Yes they are. But if you have two programs with different difficulty loads and one beating the other clearly with its innovation and passion the choice is obvious. To me at least.

[@HausdorffLover]

if you disagree then make your own video and try to prove your points🤷🏻‍♀️

[@chenminqi4204]

Technically, The motion composition of MD is more difficult,but I doubt if the rules at that time were not so consistent as they are now, so the advantages of MD were not well reflected. Because I am more familiar with women's singles than pairs skating, so I think the best example in this respect is the women's singles in 1994.With the current rules (goe systerm),the difficulty of the women's singles champion is not as good as the runner-up, and even the third place has the highest difficulty(I personally think , after all, there was no bv at that time, and I like Lu Chen). Figure skating is not just about difficulty,especially in the 6.0 system, art (or likability) was more important than difficulty, because there were no actual "points" like nowadays, and ranking was determined by voting. Crazy rules, but adapting to the rules is also what athletes need to do, because you can't change it. Artistry is of course subjective, you think MD is better, this is fine, but it is a pity that you are not the judge ,and the judges obviously prefer the style of GG（I don't think that's fair, but it's a fact.And in fact eight of the nine judges gave first place to GG, the only one who gave second place was from BLR, and Natalia is Belarusian, which really says something）. Add to that in the 93-94 season, even all the games that MD and GG played at the same time, MD never won GG, so this time GG won again. I think, the result of figure skating is never determined by "one" competition, because it is subjective.The choice of music, the choice of clothes, choreography, previous "impression" and even life story, etc.can really affect the outcome of the competition. Again,this seems really unfair, but it's a reality, because everyone is biased. To sum up ,all can I say is that I don’t know which is better(to a certain extent, the results of figure skating at every Winter Olympics cause some controversy, which is also saying something .For me,I obviously prefer GG),but from the later public opinion and now the general view of the two teams（MD and GG）, the choice of GG to become the 94 Olympic champion is "correct".