Grading Metatron's Amazing Japanese! | Metatronさんの日本語を評価してみた！ | Dōgen

Learn Japanese pitch-accent and pronunciation from my Patreon Series "Japanese Phonetics"
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Dogen / Dōgen / Japanese / A Japanese teacher grades your Japanese / Japanese teacher grades / Metatron / Italian Japanese speaker / Amazing Japanese / Metatraonさんの日本語を評価してみた！/ Japanese pronunciation / Japanese pitch-accent / 日本語のアクセント / 日本語の発音 / 発音 / 高低アクセント / 道元

[@metatronyt]

Man you are GREAT! Thank you so much for this! It's exactly what I needed! My gosh that 尾高 pattern is k(H)illing me! 笑 Literally! Yes Italian is a completely non aspirated language (unless you are from Florence) so I had to learn how to aspirate consonants for English, but when I speak Japanese I switch back to non aspirated, which is more natural for me (perhaps a bit too much as you say). 頭高 words are my favourite, I think they sound really cool, so probably to my ear 早速 as 頭高 sounded "cooler", but I'll make sure to pronounce it with the proper pattern now that you made me realise that. I do have the tendency to speak fast in Italian and I probably carry that over to my other languages, but I think you are totally right when you say that slowing down a bit would be beneficial. Precision over speed. Got it! I think I picked up that characteristic when I was working as a simultaneous interpreter and I actually had to speak fast and now it has become my brains default speed, but I didn't notice it was making me shorten words too much, that's fantastic to know. I LOVE how professional you are when you do these evaluations, your understanding of Japanese linguistics, phonology and pronunciation is mind blowing which is why I asked for your help and MAN have you delivered. Thank you for all the compliments, they mean a lot coming from a pro like you and if you are ever here in Italy let me know! I'd be great to hand out, having a pizza and talking pronunciation all day :D ありがとう！

[@vaded2135]

First

[@Couch-Tomato]

日本人です。細かいことを言えば、この動画の解説以外にもまだまだアクセントがネイティブ（標準語）とは異なるところがあるけど（例えば、ホラーゲームのホラーもホラになってる。ホラゲムと聞こえる。）、そんなの直さなくていいぐらいレベルが高いです。99点ですね👍 ただ、冒頭の「あなたのイタリア人の友達です」、これはネイティブはまず言わないなぁ〜😁表現としては。まぁでもキャッチフレーズとしてはアリかな。オリジナリティがあっていいと思う👍

[@gplastic]

@@vaded2135 bruh

[@mistersir]

@@gplastic just report it 😁

[@thebigone6071]

You’re still numero uno Metatron!!!!!

[@UncleRJ]

They say if someone is speaking very fast they are hiding something. Metatron speaks very fast in every language he speaks, probably like five of them. So he has at least five things he is hiding from everyone.

[@Ren99510]

I knew it!

[@S3aCa1mRa1n]

Nahh he’s just Italian they speak super quick

[@paulwalther5237]

I’ve totally done that in German and Japanese. The problem was natives were replying in English too much or correcting me instead of just talking - speeding up helped.

[@UncleRJ]

@@paulwalther5237 *WHAT ARE YOU HIDING?!!!*

[@paulwalther5237]

@@UncleRJ lol. I’m hiding my language mistakes.

[@patrickr.1433]

Someone messes up the odaka pattern Dogen: 13:48

[@caetanosouzasantos9072]

Hahahahhaah shut up, that's not even funny hahahahah

[@Glossologia]

Is that pic from a moon shaped pool?

[@phileo_ss]

I am Japanese and I basically agree with everything Dogen says. In my opinion, the _heiban_ できるだけ means 'as much as possible' but できるだけ with the stress on き sounds like 'just what you are able to do comfortably'. Also, おんなのこ is difficult probably because 'n', 'm' or 'ng' that is not followed by a vowel can never receive stress in English whereas in Japanese it can. It can even occupy a long note in a song.

[@yuzuinjapan9389]

I agree with your できるだけ comment; if you said something like 「できるだけで全然いいよ！」(“Being able to do it is enough!”) the できるだけ would be pronounced with the accent on the き; in 「できるだけやってね」(“Do it as much as you can”) the できるだけ would be pronounced as heiban 🤔

[@Couch-Tomato]

@@yuzuinjapan9389 そうかな🤔 標準語も関西弁も私の感覚では、どちらも平板ですけどね。

[@yuzuinjapan9389]

@@Couch-Tomato あ、ほんとですか？🤔人によって違うかもしれないですね、、教えていただきありがとうごさいます！

[@Couch-Tomato]

@@yuzuinjapan9389 いえいえ礼には及びません笑 なんか名古屋とか東海あたりはyuzuさんの仰るように、後者で“き”にアクセントが来る気がします。

[@phileo_ss]

@@Couch-Tomato 実は、そのような感覚の方もいらっしゃるかもしれないと思いながら書きました。私の場合、「できるだけで」というよりも、「できる分だけで」といった表現にすることの方が多いかもしれませんね。

[@reflectlight1368]

The fact that Dogen is so critical and humble about his own japanese makes him even more like a japanese personality wise lol

[@Rufiowascool]

I bet you Dogen WANTED to 'love' this comment, but couldn't...because it wouldn't be humble. Hi dogen, you legend!

[@yoshiegg6537]

I think being at his level, you get a true understanding of the massive gap between a western Japanese learner and a Japan born native speaker and it seems to have a humbling effect.

[@chrisfuhs1529]

@@yoshiegg6537 It is like the more you learn japanese , the more you realize how much you do not know yet. Especially if it is a total different language besides ur mother language. Iam german,so learning english was so easy for me and people often praised my english skills(#flex), but this made me believe i could just do this with japanese in the same way. And yeah lets say fkn hell japanese is the most difficult thing i ever did in my entire life.

[@Couch-Tomato]

@@Rufiowascool 面白いこと言うね🤣

[@Couch-Tomato]

@@chrisfuhs1529 がんばって！

[@LunTuba]

Dogenさん英語うまいな

[@user-hn4dp3ke6g]

もう向こうもお長いんでしょうかね。

[@-m9818]

そら日本語教師だからね。 英語もかなり必要な仕事だから当然だよね。

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

My thoughts go out to the tissue.

[@Yukke91]

kore ha PEN desu!

[@user-yv6mr5lk4v]

Metatronさんの日本語もすごいんだけど、それ以上にﾄﾞｰｹﾞﾝさんの解説が完璧すぎてびっくり笑

[@ruka1712]

2人ともほとんど違和感はないけど、強いて言うなら“外国人が日本語を喋っている”というよりかは、“関西人など日本の方言出身者が標準語を喋ろうとしている”感じ笑 他国の言語をここまで分析できるの本当にすごい。

[@GrantyoRT]

Came here for Japanese tips, stayed for Dogen shouting "KILL" at a tissue.

[@jimmyrietveldt5453]

the kill bit actualy helped me with my english.

[@brownbricks6017]

@@jimmyrietveldt5453 It's worth noting that, in General American English, at least, when /p/, /t/, and /k/ occur at the end of a syllable, they're not released at all. The airflow is simply stopped. That's also the case in several southern varieties of Chinese, if I'm not mistaken.

[@rikudou947]

I hate millennial humour

[@javimartinez1014]

Spanish soft Rs are pretty similar to the japanese ones and it's actually really useful as a begginer, but after learning a bit more japanese Rs feel to me like a middle way between our Rs and Ls as for tongue placement. But at a fundamental level they do sound very alike

[@Risperanto]

Nah, they are the same. Depending on the person and place where they are from, the Rs can become or lean more towards Ls

[@paulwalther5237]

I studied Spanish before Japanese and when I started Japanese I definitely threw out the American R and went with my best Spanish R as a base and modified it a bit.

[@elyviere]

One small suggestion: Mark the incorrect pitch accent and the correct pitch accent graphically somehow (for example, make the incorrect one red). It was a bit confusing with できるだけ as you never showed the 平板 pitch accent, and it's easy to then learn the wrong thing.

[@walltissue2207]

im 10 months late but the heiban できるだけ and the できるだけ with a downstep on き are both correct ways of saying できるだけ

[@mandarinjourneyswithnanno]

Even though I’m not learning Japanese it’s amazing to see a foreigner so knowledgeable about how a language works. Super inspiring!

[@tykep1009]

One thing I can point out is "level" in a game context is not common in Japanese. If one is not a game designer or hardcore gamer who are familiar with the foreign game culture, "ステージ (stage)" is typically used (puzzle games like Tetris are exceptional). The usage of "レベル (level)" is limited to the skills or characters or some kind of object mainly.

[@ZeroRelevance]

Interesting

[@LordVysh]

I don't know man. It was pretty commonplace in Japanese ps1 games.

[@tykep1009]

@@LordVysh I don't know which games are you talking about, but I'm just sharing my common sense as a Japanese gamer. Maybe you are mistaking it for difficulty level? Mixing up different worlds and difficulties into the game term "level" is the most confusing thing for me as a non-native.

[@moshimoshi.yusuke]

Dogen is definitely a professional.

[@LittletriniWeeb]

Fancy seeing you here! Fan of yours as well ❤️

[@doodlburgr3151]

King ゆうすけ is here.

[@AleLP8]

ゆうすけ！

[@concretefields]

Linguist here. One quick correction: Aspiration in English doesn't only occur when [p] [t] [k] are word-initial, they occur when the sounds are *syllable-initial.* Compare "pan", "span", "nap", "naps" "napper". You only get aspiration with "pʰan" and "napʰer". I usually explain aspiration with [p] since it's easiest to feel using the hand/tissue method you demonstrated, but I can definitely see the utility in focusing in on [t] and [k] in the Japanese context. Cheers for the video!

[@attq3980]

How do you pronounce: "penis"?

[@omp199]

@@attq3980 Hmm. Are you here from the _Sora the Troll_ crossover episode?

[@attq3980]

@@omp199 Sora has a girl name and looks like a one, but no.

[@loli42]

weird, i get aspiration from all of those. just wondering, are you black in real life? that could explain why you're lying about being a linguist in the youtube comments.

[@RedHair651]

@@loli42 what the fuck. What does this have to do with skin colour? Also I'm linguistics person and his comment is correct.

[@kalinkapavlova9398]

As someone learning Italian, who used to study Japanese, and gets more Japanese themed KZbin recommendations than Italian (which is not helping me at all lol) I feel like there's definitely many similarities between Japanese and Italian. The one example I feel like I can explain without confusing myself (and hopefully others) is that I've noticed words in Italian that have double consonants (like "tt") pretty much apply the same rules as Japanese; with an emphasis on the consonants, like you're pronouncing two different words. (J. for questionable fermented bean dish: natto, I. word for cat: gatto.) Another is that Italian sometimes swap the order for subject and the verb. I wonder if that's partly how Metatron learned to speak Japanese at such a high level? Anyhoodles keep up the great work, Dōgen, and maybe I'll accidentally learn both languages at once. 😅

[@iCrimsonKing]

I am Italian and you are right. Pronunciation is very similar most of the times, in some cases identical.

[@Rolando_Cueva]

I noticed the geminated consonants too.

[@discipleofurza1]

Why KZbin took as long as it did to recommend this channel to me, I'll never know. But I've learned so much from just this video, I know I'll only improve as I dive down this new rabbit-hole. Here I go...

[@Ryosuke1208]

Not even a japanese learner but his channel is amazing and I can't stop watching.

[@paulwalther5237]

Listening to you analyze this Japanese makes me realize how utterly oblivious I am to my Japanese pronunciation.

[@metatronyt]

Don't worry, I've been studying Japanese for a long time,and I too still have a lot to learn about the pitch accent

[@creeproot]

my two favourite linguists coming together???? is this real life????!?!?

[@RedHair651]

Neither of them are linguists though, are they?

[@creeproot]

@@RedHair651 well it sounds better than "cool language dude", so I'll stick with it

[@thedarkknight9021]

@@RedHair651 As far as I know Metatron should be

[@shadowmaster9279]

@@RedHair651 Metatron is a professional linguist even though he doesn't talk much about languages on his channel

[@ilyaibrahimovic9842]

The level of nuance is absolutely incredible

[@tamagotalk]

Dogen has become even more humble than any Japanese person.　笑

[@bimtucklez]

Not only did I learn more about Japanese today, I also learned more about English as well. It's amazing how much you don't know about your own native language, eh? ありがとうございます、ドゲン先生‼

[@coltynstone-lamontagne]

Ooh I spotted a wild "eh"! Nice😎

[@TadaNoEssai]

As an Italian i can say we have sometime more issues at pronouncing aspirated consonants, for example in English, because we don't really have them in Italian ahaha

[@sameash3153]

Funny, when I try and speak Italian I can't remove the aspiration to save my life.

[@alesanna99]

@@sameash3153 I think the main use of h is using it at the start of some words to distinguish, for example, the form of the verb to have “ha” from the particle “a” but the pronounce doesn’t change, there’s no aspiration at all. Even with foreign words that became commonly used in Italy we don’t aspirate the h, for example in “hotel”. Another use of h is changing the sound of the letter c and g when they are followed by the vowels “e” and “i”. English people struggle a lot with this, an example is the word “pistacchio” where many people read “ch” as in “chapter”, while is read [k]. As a matter of fact the correct pronunciation is “pistakkio”

[@doms.6701]

In before the metatron gives an amazing thank you comment that will probably be in both English and japanese The look you have while listening is the same my japanese professor had. He's a native japanese who was a translator in his early career and also teaches japanese children who are here because of their parent's job; he keeps them on the curriculum for Japan

[@shinobi-no-bueno]

Well,well, well. Look who was right lol

[@algis-kun8777]

As a spanish speaker i can tell you that the "R" sounds are the ones that need particular care... As latin speakers can do rolling "R" sounds which are not used in japanese... so Spanish (Latin speakers) in general are told to do really soft "R" sounds (sometimes to the point of slurring it closer to an "L" sound rather than an "R" one.)

[@LeoSkyro]

yeah I'm Italian but when he said the Spanish R is the same as the Japanese R I was doubtful

[@ElaxGameplaysHD]

The Japanese "R" is identical as the soft spanish "R" such as in the word "Pero". Right?

[@TheBlueGoldenHawk]

technically japanese does have a rolling r kind of sound, but it's for rough/yakuza speech lol

[@ChronicalV]

You will hear a rolling r in japanese if theyre speaking roughly. So not common but they can do it no problem

[@ellieban]

As a native British English speaker simultaneously learning Spanish and Japanese, learning the Spanish trill was helpful in articulating the Japanese R because it got me learning muscle control that is absent in English. What I found most useful was to think of the Japanese R as exactly half way between an English L and R and put my tongue in that mid point. The positioning for the Spanish and Japanese are somewhat similar, so the control I'd gained through learning to trill helped my Japanese pronunciation. #notanexpert #probablynonsense #justmypersonalexperience #hashtag #its2012again

[@Frahamen]

He's Italian. Of course he speaks fast ;)

[@astrorosegold0485]

Metatronさんイケボ。英語もスゴイ上手だけど、日本語もこれだけ話せれば十分ですよ。私はイタリアに長く住んでるけど、Metatoronさんの日本語のようにイタリア語を話せるかというと無理・・・ホント、尊敬します！

[@0410osamu]

「ゲーム」より「ホラ」のほうが気になりますよ（日本語話者です）

[@9e0r9e]

私も。気になる理由は、ゲムという単語はないけど、法螺という単語があるからだと思います。

[@kate_london96]

「ゲム」の「ゲ」のピッチがひとつのモーラの中で上から下に変化しているからだと思います。我々日本語話者は、ピッチが変化すると、伸ばしている音として認識するようです。

[@Dogen]

Check out Metatron's awesome channel here! tinyurl.com/33ubp83r Japanese pitch-accent and pronunciation lessons: www.patreon.com/dogen Edit: It's worth noting that when mimicking Metatron's speech, I sometimes over-exaggerate things in order to better explain what's going on. Metatron's Japanese really is remarkable!

[@fabricatorzayac]

I was wondering where have I heard of Metatron before. When you said "medieval weaponry" I remembered that I heard of him from Skallagrim.

[@marcwittkowski5146]

It's also the name of an angel.

[@annafirnen4815]

Oh snap, Dogen responded to Metatron's call. Is this going to be a start of a beautiful yt bromance?

[@shinobi-no-bueno]

No, this is how anime was born. The timeline is healing itself 😍

[@alahala5259]

The aspiration part was really interesting! I am super jealous of Metatron's speed! Being able to think that fast in japanese is fascinating! Something I'm noticing about his speaking, which I'm not entirely sure about, but it sounds a bit "written"? Or like textbook written? I know it's formal, which might affect the feeling bit. Feel free to come with insights on that one since I don't really know 🙈

[@paulwalther5237]

Yeah being able to speak quickly is a fantastic skill for foreign languages. I thought I spoke Japanese at a pretty normal speed until I recorded myself. Ouch.

[@snowfoxxie]

I have regular speed and occasionally super slow days where I just can’t well😂 I’m fluent and I speak everyday at home but some days my Japanese brain is just not there or something lol

[@AniRayn]

Romanian also has similar pronunciation to Italian anf and Spanish. Especially the R sound is quite easy for us, compared to English speakers.

[@JasperL609]

I didn't expect Dogen to ever say "it's a me, Mario!", but here we are.

[@metatronyt]

Ye that was great xD

[@theramendutchman]

You... You didn't?

[@TheBlueGoldenHawk]

It's funny because that's an American voice actor doing an Italian accent too lol

[@Miggy19779]

@@TheBlueGoldenHawk cringe, is that what Americans think an Italian accent is? Facepalm.

[@thichinhphan4010]

@@Miggy19779 It's kinda a universal joke you know, faking other accents. I've seen some faking a french accent version and a kinda british accent version.

[@michaelvandemolegraaf8124]

Great video! So detailed. Is anyone aware of anyone else who does language break down like this? I'm learning Dutch and Italian.

[@st0rmrider]

Metatron will be giggling all day after this

[@roguegen5536]

He'll be so giddy his cringe level will reach maximum pasta.

[@MohamedAlJneibi]

Amazing review. I love your work and as someone just starting my journey in 日本語 Keep up the great work!

[@ChadKakashi]

Did you say you were journeying to Turkey or did KZbin’s translation feature fail?

[@andrewdunbar828]

Italian phonology is a bit closer to Japanese than Spanish is in at least some ways. For instance Italian has long/geminated consonants as does Japanese, but Spanish does not. The bit with the pronunciation of "saigaiin" is probably partly due to the fact that Italian does not have long vowels like Japanese does. I know many Italians have trouble with this in English. Spanish doesn't have long vowels either of course.

[@SayRoBo]

Hi, I'm a fan of your videos from Japan. Although I can listen and comprehend English, I'm not goot at writing English so I'll comment in Japanese beyond here. いつも楽しく動画観させてもらってます！ いつも発音の指摘をとても的確にされていて、ドーゲンさんの造詣の深さにはいつも驚かされます。 指摘されてなかった部分で、自分がパッと聞いて感じた違和感としては、 ホラーゲーム → ホラゲーム？ (ホラ=嘘→lying game?) 終了(しゅうりょう)条件 → 狩猟(しゅりょう)条件？ (monster hunter?) しゅうじんキャラクター → 囚人キャラクター？(表現としても不自然なので、ドーゲンさんの仰る通り、主人公 または メインキャラクターと呼ぶのが適切です。) そして and として「ならびに」を使うと少し固すぎる表現なので、「そして」がいいですね。 日本人ファンとして、これからも動画楽しみにしてます！

[@osian3854]

I was looking forward to this video

[@suvilevi9211]

You are helping us a lot !! And in a very easy way ! Thanks!

[@edenromanov]

Dope so awesome to see a collab actually come out of Th is 😁🙏❤️

[@SamPearman]

I think the kill/skill thing, while freaking cool, is obviously pretty region specific. I come from Australia, and my "kill" has significantly less aspiration than yours, while my "skill" appears to have slightly more. It's still great advice for people thinking about their Japanese pronunciation though.

[@sharuban]

Yeah, even lots of people who are really into phonetics (including me until about a month ago) don't realize that aspiration is more of a spectrum than a binary. Some old British textbooks for Chinese explained aspiration as a totally foreign phenomenon just because Chinese aspiration is much stronger than British English aspiration (but about the same as American English aspiration for some consonants).

[@melinaouzouni6151]

Metatron and dogen!!! So happy for that video!! Two of my favorite youtubers✌️♥️♥️

[@edwartvonfectonia4362]

Metatron will be very happy about your Japanese analysis!

[@user-vd5td2tr8u]

Metatronはこの動画を見る前から知ってたけど、彼がこんなに上手に日本語を喋れるとはしらなかった！

[@IanKnowland]

7:46 Uses English to demonstrate Italian stress accent in a video about Japanese lol love your videos. Not at the point where I need to focus on pitch accent, I think, but I'm definitely enjoying the breakdowns for vocab and humor! Maybe some of it will stick!

[@flaviospadavecchia5126]

The Italian/Spanish R is not quite the same as Japanese, but definitely much closer than the English one. As for the aspiration of plosives, Italian also doesn't aspirate much, so the mistake of doing that in Japanese is a typical trait of Germanic languages (probably among others).

[@seneca983]

Are you sure? To my knowledge, the Spanish single R (between vowels) is the alveolar tap [ɾ] which, to my knowledge, is also the most common realization of R in Japanese.

[@flaviospadavecchia5126]

@@seneca983 I think in Japanese it tends to be postalveolar, rather than alveolar, which makes it sound slightly different.

[@seneca983]

@@flaviospadavecchia5126 OK, thanks. That difference is probably too small for me to hear (as I'm not a phonetician or anything). Is a postalveolar tap different from a retroflex one? I tried looking it up on Wikipedia but it just redirected to retroflex tap.

[@flaviospadavecchia5126]

@@seneca983 retroflex should be quite different! It can be found in Japanese in some dialects, apparently.

[@seneca983]

@@flaviospadavecchia5126 All the IPA tables I've seen only make the distinction between alveolar and postalveolar for fricatives only.

[@BohemianScandalous]

I love Dougen’s studio??? House???? Office??? Idk what it is but it looks great. The neon sushi sign is awesome.

[@user-cf3jy7wk2s]

IKR!! I have it I purchased it from amazon

[@loli42]

lol yeah, i just bought dogen's entire studio??? house???? office??? off the amazon for about 2 quid. proper bargain, proper nice as well.

[@nahte-]

wow, that aspiration section was so cool, really interesting. also これはペンです！

[@carlosalbertobertaud2677]

Wow! Great explanation, i love your channel, greetings from Mexico!

[@TreeFrogOnATree]

It seems like there something to look at in every part of the shot, is it to make people who feel uncomfortable from eye contact more comfortable? (New mirror!? No - it's a reflective frame on a new picture!) I like how you've taken the mic stand out of the left hand side and brought the books' titles into readable focus. There's also the red light on the right side which is now pure, whereas it was splotchy before. You've even put the Spirited Away duder behind the picture on the left and rotated the figure in front of that picture. THE DOGEN LORE INTENSIFIES

[@OrangeC7]

I think he bumped the Spirited Away figurine somewhere in the middle of the video, too

[@ykknc]

ホラーゲームの 「ホラー」 も短く聞こえますね。

[@ZanicaKnight]

Hey Dogen, how would you feel about videos like this but critiquing the Japanese of foreign characters in video games, like Gary "Buster" Holmes in Yakuza: Kiwami or the chinese friend of Lee in Yakuza 0, for example? I personally think it would rock

[@kkinosvt]

I feel like I just went to class, my brain 😭😭😭😭 I loved the video but omg, smartness too high, me too dumb

[@YokoshimaOfficial]

Found you from the anime man and fell in love your charms, you're the inspiration I was looking for to continue learning Japanese...stopped at N4 when I went homeless but my life is better again. Subbed, more awesome rare Japanese lessons

[@nklmiloq]

Pitch variation of おかしくなった might be a result of devoicing the vowel in し.

[@sandorrclegane2307]

Duude this video is so informative

14:02 "this is a pen"

[@DisasterxUs]

I really appreciate your quality of explaning such subtle nuances.

[@OrangeC7]

12:44 Until this point I was wondering what you were talking about, but in that very second I went "AHH I REMEMBER THAT!!"

[@2007excalibur2007]

これはペンです

[@OrangeC7]

@@2007excalibur2007 This. is. A. PEN!

[@widifjwndhcugofkw]

日本語の発音て難しいんですね.... im japanese though, i have never thought about that kind of japanese language pronounciation mechanism....amazing.

[@sakipixy]

16:26 囚人キャラクター　かと思いました

[@firly3]

Really loving the editing

[@chrislee7222]

@6:14 That's me 100% And I have a hard time dropping that habit. But you explained that perfect, so now i at least know why I do that in the first place. Just overcompensation. Your whole explanations (from 4:30 - 6:45) was great, but particularly about the overcompensation was spot on!

[@XansStuff]

Well, it was "K(h)ill" in English, then Doug Marcaida came along and showed a better way!

[@jort93z]

I love metatrons videos. Yours are great too :P also, congrats for 400k subs.

[@Qulize]

Imo he talks way too fast in Japanese in comparison to his English. Nonetheless, it's still impressive 😮

[@jinwonkang570]

Hi, Dogen! It's always a pleasure to watch these critique videos even though I've never even studied Japanese. Regarding the kimchi (김치) example, you are correct in that Korean can be seen as having three aspiration levels depending on the consonant being used. For example, the consonant ㄱ (as used in the first syllable of kimchi) is neither a hard "g" nor hard "k" sound, but rather a sort of blend between the two. So this basic consonant will expel some air when speaking, however, it will not have a full aspiration or deaspiration. Korean does have deaspiration in the form of "double consonants", in which select consonants (ㄱ, ㄷ, ㅂ, ㅅ, ㅈ) can be written as ㄲ, ㄸ, ㅃ, ㅆ, ㅉ. These consonants will have extremely minimal, if not none, aspiration, being very similar to how using つ as a sokuon will form that slight stop/minimal aspiration in the next kana's sound. So, using the first syllable of kimchi (which, by the way, you said the "kim" part quite accurately), if the ㄱ were to turn into a ㄲ, that syllable would turn from a "kim" sound to a "kkim". It would actually hold a very similar sound to っき. Many beginners have a fair amount of difficulty with these sounds, and thus they will often forget to deaspirate these consonants when speaking and instead pronounce it as their base forms. The fully aspriated consonants (ㅊ, ㅋ, ㅌ, ㅍ) are fairly simple to grasp for Korean learners as these are just hard sounds. Hard "ch", hard "k", etc. Hope I could clear up some stuff with this comment! Once again, I loved the video. Looking forward to the next skit or analysis!

[@KillerTacos54]

Love your videos Dogen! Very informative

[@NobungaGames]

Dogenさん，お疲れ様でして！

[@PC_Simo]

2:26 I actually thought, as a kid, that ”Sayonara!” is Spanish; mostly, because, in Finland (where I’m from), it’s pronounced: ”Sayyonāra!”; so, with a long [jː] and long 2nd [ɑː].

[@AlderDragon]

Congrats on 400k subscribers!

[@edmundlubega9647]

As a "Bantu" person, it seems that Spanish and Italian are probably the European languages closest to Bantu languages of Africa - at least in phonetics. Even many words are similar though may have different meanings. Eg morena in Spanish means black but in Setswana it means Lord. Mambo in Swahili means news and is also a greeting but in Spanish... not sure what it means. I heard it in a Cuban rhumba song

[@DottoreSM]

mambo is a cuban dance/music genre

[@Testosterooster]

Its been done !! Legend !!

[@susansusan784]

Dogen先生のアドバイスは参考になりました。ありがとうございました。話題に上ってた囚人キャラは、ゲーム界では普通に使かわれています。囚われている人達を指しているとおもわれます。その単語を入れてさらっと話されているのでびっくりしました。Amazing！

[@DaPunkNdFunk]

Actually, italian is not a stressed-time language, and that example you brought explains how to make italian sound more "english". Italian is a sillable-timed language, so words can have an accent, but every sillable counts and needs to be pronunced clearly. That's why in Italy we have a very hard time trying to understand english pronunciation, because we do not hear every sillable clearly, and that sounds very confusing to us.

[@tafazzi-on-discord]

In italian if you drop half the consonants you can still understand, in english if you drop half the vowels you can still understand, i think that's why we italians struggle in spoken english.

[@seneca983]

"Actually, italian is not a stressed-time language" Though he didn't say it was a stress-timed language.

[@TNaizel]

Italian is mostly stress timed though? Open syllables when accented are longer, unless the accent is in the last syllable of the word.

[@seneca983]

@@TNaizel That's not what stress-timed means. In a stress-timed language stressed syllables are roughly evenly spaced.

[@TNaizel]

@@seneca983 I see, though what Dogen was saying about the stressed syllable being longer in English does apply to Italian too

[@DougalBayer]

Voicing and Aspiration are a matter of the relative timing between release of oral air pressure, and the onset of voicing. It is a myth that we exhale so forcefully. We simply whisper longer than Japanese do before restarting the voice. For voiced stop plosive consonants in Japanese and English, phonation begins ~20ms before the release of PTK. It sounds like a murmur or even a brief N. For voiceless stop plosive consonants in Japanese, phonation is initiated ~20ms after oral release. So there is a very brief period of 無声化whispering before the voice begins again. But when PTK appear in initial position in words or stressed syllables in English, initiation of voicing is delayed 60-100ms. That’s almost a full beat (one mora beat 一拍) of Japanese. That period of voicelessness is similar to the devoicing 無声化, in words such as 北, 作る, and the first こ in こころ in rapid speech. We can illustrate English aspiration as follows using katakana: Key キヒー＼イ Tea テヒー＼イ Pay ペヘー＼イ (In each, whisper 無声化 the first kana, but do not blow excessive air.)

[@sacrinarose]

Very informative video

[@RadioLightning]

As an Italian native speaker I agree that the sounds are very very similar with Japanese. So the problem an average Italian speaker might have is with intonation and a little bit with the R sound. But Italian doesn't have a strong aspiration, phonetically it's pretty much the same, we have double consonants, the R has a similar position, but it is not the same, we don't have long vowels in standard Italian (which is present in many words in Japanese) which would need some work. Also Italian has mostly syllables with a consonant+vowel kind of structure, just like Japanese (i-ta-lia-no , pa-ro-la).

[@RedHair651]

Italian does have long vowels but they are tied to stress

[@RedHair651]

Also Japanese uses moras, not syllables. pan.ta.loː.ne versus pa.n.ta.lo.o.ne pan.na.cot.ta versus pa.n.na.co.t.ta

[@RadioLightning]

@@RedHair651 yes that's true but they don't sound really like long vowels rather stressed vowels and they don't make any difference in meaning compared to other languages

[@RadioLightning]

@@RedHair651 yes that's a better way to call them. They are not really the same 😃 but I think people understood what I mean by saying syllables. Thanks for pointing it out

[@25usd94]

Badass crossover

[@airo6629]

I'm Italian. Please i want to hear you saying more italian words! ahah actually the way you said "Mario" sounded exactly as a japanese would say it!! By the way recently i submitted to your patreon, keep it up!

[@TheOnlyToblin]

What he said was "It's me, Mario" but with the typical epenthesis Italian speakers do, so it becomes "it's 'a me, Mario"

[@airo6629]

@@TheOnlyToblin Oh! i must've misheard for the emotion ahah ,thank you!

[@seneca983]

@@TheOnlyToblin I'd imagine that a Japanese person who's not that good at pronouncing English might also insert an epenthetic vowel (though not necessarily 'a').

[@vali69]

Really like that little tissue experiment. I've tried it by saying the same words, skill and kill, and got the same results. But when I just said k alone I got the result from skill. Probably because of k is pronounce in my native language(Romanian). Which is extremely similar to how we pronounce c or ch, and also probably the reason why k is basically not used in writing like at all. Actually it's used for words that are borrowed like these ones: kilogram or kaki. First one is obvious, second one refers to the color khaki. Now let me illustrate something unique to my language compared to English. Vowels and consonants have fixed sounds, so all sounds of the words you say are directly translated into characters. Let's take the previous 2 words. First up is kill. If I were to write it in my language it would be like chil. Now skill. This one is more like schâil. See that â. That is a sound that on the ipa vowel chart is close to that center i or u. Can't really think of anything like it in English tho. But compared to kill, in skill it is present right after the k, but not like extremely obvious because of how short it is. Kinda hard to describe its presence. It really is a nightmare trying to properly pronounce English as a Romania when we're so used to words just "sounding the way they are written". However when I look at Japanese, all I can think is this: "man this is much easier but at the same time pitch accent really looks hard". Another good example of how annoying it is to pronounce stuff in English is the vowels i and e. These are again fixed when it comes to the sound they make but when we look at English we see that e, when said alone, is exactly like how we say i.

[@PC_Simo]

9:48 It sounds, to me, that Metatron is saying: ”Sūjin Kerakutā”; or, however ”Character” is transported into Japanese; so, basically, the full form of ”Character”; not just the ”Kara-” -part. Of course; I don’t know or speak Japanese; and so, it’s entirely possible that the ”-Kutā” -part was just other words and/or grammar; but that’s quite a good coincidence, to be entirely coincidental, if you ask me. 🤔 *EDIT:* After listening it again; I’m pretty confident that the ”-Kutā” -part is not grammar; because, immediately after that, I hear him say: ”No”; which, I believe, is the Genitive marker, in Japanese; and the subtitles say: ”The protagonist’s only child.”, which would be: ”Sūjin-kerakutā no _[insert the words: ”only child”, in Japanese].”_ (literally: ”The protagonist character’s only child.”). That’s the idea I got. 🤔 But, of course, I’m nobody to argue. I’m just relaying, verbatim, what I, personally, heard.

[@d.2605]

Make the hoodie in the color it looks like in the video for the next drop D!

[@abirhasankhan9327]

CONGRATS on reaching 400K subs Dogen-sensei

[@abstractlizard9377]

I got clickbaited, I thought it said megatron.

[@oz_jones]

Feels bad, man

[@DougalBayer]

Fantastic analysis! BTW, although the definition of aspiration puts forceful air first, and there are languages with fotceful air, I don’t think it’s a good description of English or other Germanic aspiration. The unique characteristic of English aspiration, is a significant delay in the onset of voicing after the consonant. At the beginning of words and stressed syllables, the vowel after PTK and CH is devoiced for 60-80 ms, nearly a tenth of second, or about as long as a Japanese 拍 mora. Any extra puff of air may be just a side-effect of that air not being used to drive the vocal chords. When PTK come after S or at the beginning of unstressed syllables, voicing begins almost immediately. By contrast, voicing begins before BDG and continues in the throat right through the oral closure. So English has a 3-way distinction: voicing before, at, or long after the consonant release. The vowels after Japanese PTK are devoiced for only about 20 ms, between the two types of English PTK. In one study, when Japanese were given intensive training in English aspiration, the best students achieve a delay of voicing of 40 ms, less than the shortest delay by a native speaker. Just as I naturally revert to my native “flap t” (coulda gotta city) for らりる, it wouldn’t surprise me if many English speakers with better J accents simply used their native unaspirated PTK for the lightly aspirated Japanese PTK.

[@28_ridhoputradarma10]

日本語を勉強するやる気があってよかったわｗｗ

[@TheKMing]

You had me worried about a skillshare segue for half a minute.

[@Konichiwamydude]

Sounds perfect!

[@darklibertario5001]

i wasn't expecting this crossover, amazing hahaha

[@SteveDice21]

Wait, Spanish is similar to Japanese?! That's it. Forget German. I'm learning Japanese.

[@fater8711]

I thought the same thing

[@fater8711]

Hajshahsxu

[@NO1xANIMExFAN]

Yes the phonenics are pretty similar

[@OLBarbok]

Yeeess he did it!

[@RedHair651]

Italian doesn't have aspirated consonants in any position, which explains how naturally he can avoid using aspirated unvoiced plosives.

[@annl.5512]

U never heard toscany dialect then

[@seneca983]

@@annl.5512 But he's from Sicily, not Tuscany.

[@ChadKakashi]

@@seneca983 palermo specifically.

[@salls877]

SO interesting!!!

[@FilipP88]

Damn his Japanese is really good, very formal and articulate. Good luck in your pitch accent studies Metatron

[@user-tr5li8fm1f]

道元さんが日本語を教えてる動画でこっちは英語の勉強させてもらってますww

[@ChadKakashi]

That’s great!

[@significantlystrangeboi9929]

This was two years ago. How did I not know?

[@ShadowUnanimous]

1:27 dang! He’s good 2:03-2:19 This is why it’s easier for Spanish/Italian speakers.