Grail Watches: Vacheron Constantin: Historiques American 1921

[@Bencosta]

Bill, I believe this to be the best review of the Historiques 1921. I watched nearly all of them available here on KZbin before I purchased my Historiques.. Bravo!

[@watchartsci]

Wow, thanks Heber! How do you like it so far? Take care, Bill

[@Bencosta]

@@watchartsci I love it Bill, this is also my first grail watch too :) Couldn't be happier.

[@CAP18]

Let me tell you that you are truly an exquisite person, and it is always a pleasure to listen to you. Thank you 🙏

[@watchartsci]

Hey Paolocap, thanks man! Take care, Bill

[@CasaLobo77]

Very informative video. I venture to say that the invention of the automobile was precursor for the pocketwatch to evolve into wristwatch.

[@watchartsci]

Crazy Wolf, the "Car Watch Story" is only one of the many possible myths that go with that watch. Love it, though. Take care, Bill

[@kennethtape3362]

Once again a ‘in-depth’ discussion of great ‘grail watches’ and, as always, thank you for that :)

[@watchartsci]

Boy Kenneth, am I far behind!!! Thanks man! Bill

[@BillMrWild]

Thanks Bill, always interesting,

[@watchartsci]

Hey Bill, always a pleasure! Cheers, Bill

[@thesportingprofessor3011]

Great video Bill! Enjoy these in-depth vids on one piece. Really cool watch.

[@ThanhLai5]

This is my grail watch too. It's good for you to own your grail watch sir!

[@AbdulRWatches]

Thanks Bill, very informative about a very cool and unique time piece.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Abdul, my pleasure! Kindest regards, Bill

[@davidhabib]

Another great video. Thanks for the detail discussion on this great piece. I personally love this model and hope to pick one up at some point

[@matthewdavis8199]

Watchfinder.uk released a video today that included this watch. Clearly Bill you are a man who has everything!

[@watchartsci]

Thank you Matthew, I'll check it out. Yes, everything... an angry, long-suffering wife, a dwindling bank account ...and some fun watches; the stuff of a watch collector! Cheers, Bill

[@matthewdavis8199]

@@watchartsci I understand completely! Thank you for responding!

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

Hi Bill, hope u are enjoying holidays with family, a moser Harry showed up, watching your video to refresh my memory, and reading reviews etc, several folks mentioned very expensive service costs if things go wrong, would like to know your impressions/thoughts since u own one, regards

[@watchartsci]

Hi Eddie, the Henry Double Hairspring is among my favorite watches. Its engineering complexity has been compared to a tourbillon, and the head of H. Moser said that to be viable, they'd have to charge tourbillon prices for continued production. (Last I heard, they'd only be putting them in Swiss Alps models making 20/year and charging $32k for them.) I dread the service charges since I'll have to send it to Schaffhausen, Switzerland, but given the mechanical genius of the watch as well as the quality of it, it's worth it to me. Let me know if you're going to pass on this one because I have a friend who's been trying to get one. Kindest regards, Bill

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

Agree with u Bill, I will go and have a look, a have a feeling I am going to pull the trigger on this one, I do like the early Genta designs and the bracelet is stunning

[@watchartsci]

Eddie, if the watch is worth it to you; then it's a good value. Ultimately, that's all that really counts. Kindest regards, Bill

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

Thanks Bill, will look into it

[@DaisukeBeppu]

Thank you very much for your excellent videos, Bill. They are really great, and your presentation is really pleasant and very easy to follow. I really appreciate it. I have the Vacheron Constantin Historiques American 1921, the 36.5 mm version, in pink gold. It is a really lovely watch and not at all as "small" when actually worn on the wrist. While I love the 40 mm version, I personally like the small classic "dress watch" dimensions of the 36.5 version, and again, the watch wears bigger, and so it has wrist presence which makes it feel like a watch that is larger than 36.5 mm. Also, it is smaller but that might be an advantage as its retail price is considerably lower than the 40 mm, and so I'd assume that the prices on the used market or gray market would also have the same or similar price difference, which might make the 36.5 mm version more appealing. Furthermore, while Vacheron promotes the 36.5 mm version as a unisex watch, and while Vacheron sold me the watch with two straps (a brown leather strap and a red leather strap), it is a man's watch. If you like the old-school Rolex Datejust, then this 36.5 mm is perfect for you I think. If you like, I can post a quick video of my collection on my own KZbin channel so that you can take a look at it as well as my other watches, as I too am a bit of a watch collector. Best regards from Tokyo.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Daisuke Beppu, great to hear you got a '21! Love that watch, and the 36.5mm version is great! It's a big looking watch to begin with and the angle makes it look even bigger. I think VC's decision to come out with a 36.5mm version is a great idea! 21's are 21's no matter what the size! Cheers, Bill

[@DaisukeBeppu]

WatchArtSci I have made a very quick impromptu video of some of my collection, including the VC. If you are interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJW4o3inbdR_iac

[@ruda04ae]

Great video! Thanks, Bill! Love this! This is actually my grail watch! Another grail wathc could be the Saltarello - would love to see a similar clip from you on this one.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Ruda04ae, thanks! Tell all about the Salterello! It is a watch I would like to learn more about from a personal point of view (yours) and then I could have a review of it as a grail watch that could combine than art & science of your grail! Kindest regards, Bill

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

Hi Bill, just had a look at the watch on chron24 boy it’s beautiful 😍, the caseback in hunter style and the movement is stunning, it’s up to your negotiating skills that you talked to us about, -30%?🎉🎉 keep us posted

[@watchartsci]

Hey Eddie, which one were you looking at? One's negotiating skills are clearly limited by one's bank account ... they can't make us pay what we don't have. Cheers, Bill

[@algorithm007ify]

Such a unique watch Bill. Is it just me or is Vacheron seeming more interesting than Patek these days? Interestingly, the movement in this watch is 28800 bph. This is a higher than the more traditional 21600bph that VC (and other high end brands) used at the time. On that topic Bill, did you know that Parmigiani made a new Chronograph movement recently at 36000bph (5hz, ala the El Primero)?

[@watchartsci]

Hey WA, I knew about Parm's 36k/5Hz ... movement but forced it out of my mind! I wish the 4400 ran at 21,600, but they were looking for something more familiar to watchmakers and could be more easily serviced. It's a good (not-too-exciting) movement and as faithful as a good dog! I've come to appreciate it. Patek has been doing too many graceless complications rather anything really new or exciting. Cheers, Bill

[@algorithm007ify]

Yes I agree. There is something alluring about watching the escapement/balance wheel move a little slower in lower beat movements. With high beat movements, it feels as though the movement is about to have a heart attack. Also agree on the comment with Patek. They make around the same number of watches as JLC these days so they are not as exclusive as they use to be (heck, so many mainstream entertainers such as rap artists are starting to move away from Rolex and go towards Patek/AP) or claim to be (i.e., part of the reason Patek moved away from the Geneva seal was perhaps to appear more exclusive, a marketing trick no doubt). Also, Patek are slowly turning into AP, where they are fast becoming a one model brand (i.e., the Nautilus, which to me looks like a 1960s TV set). Moreover, their recent models are losing classic design elements. For example, the semi-open dial nautilus was a little tasteless, and their "pilot" watch is almost a knock off of a Zenith Type 20, as mentioned here: www.hodinkee.com/articles/three-experts-opinions-on-the-patek-philippe-5524

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

Hi Bill really like your 1921, what are your impressions on the Vacheron chronomet royal, simple 3 hander, automatic movement is slightly putting me off, but boy is it beautiful

[@watchartsci]

That is one expensive and beautiful watch Eddie! As you know, I'm not a fan of automatics, but this one appears to be the best of the best ( watchbase.com/vacheron-constantin/caliber/2460-scc ). For that kind of money (around $40k) you could get a Lang & Heyne Konrad Constant Force Remontoir and Deadbeat Seconds (pre-owned) with a manual wind. That dial is wholly unique! Cheers, Bill

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

Thanks Bill, this one showed up at used at around 24k, full set, would not pay 40k. Love German watches, have followed heyne, will definitely look at it, thanks again

[@watchartsci]

Hey Eddie, 24k sounds more affordable ... at least in some orbits! Lang & Heyne is only for me...no one else can have one. I was so impressed with Marco Lang's work that I've become a serious fan. Kindest regards, Bill

[@golfinguru11]

Love the watch but always wondered why the seconds subdial isn’t aligned with the hours/minutes

[@watchartsci]

The small seconds at 3 o'clock Goonie, is common. Or, like your icon, "It gets no respect!" Take care, Bill

[@golfinguru11]

@@watchartsci haha good catch. Anyone who appreciates Rodney and fine timepieces gets my respect. And thank you for the explanation, I did not know this.

[@johnnyboy1586]

It's a feature 😊

[@CAP18]

Hi Bill, do you know if there are some mechanical component made in silicon inside this cal 4400? Thanks 🙏

[@watchartsci]

Not that I know of, Paolocap. Silicon parts in escapements are not a problem. They function just like parts made of transitional metals. I don't care for silicon hairsprings because they cannot be adjusted with a regulator-swan neck, woodpecker or any other type. Take care, Bill

[@bv2225]

Hi Bill, truly a great watch! Thanks for the video. I am very interested in the GO Pano Reserve as a medium term (1-2 years) grail watch. If you could do a review I would be grateful! Cheers!

[@burkholdst.rudderberg3574]

I find the platinum version attractive. My grail watch would have to be an A. Lange & Sohne 1815 Chronograph in rose gold. I do not wear any watch in bed while I am sleeping, but I think I would make an exception with the 1815!

[@mohammadamin9061]

Bill , Vacheron Constantin with its Royal Heritage is everyone`s Grail watch . Its Royal Heritage sets it above patek .

[@kevinhan721]

In strictly design point of view, between yellow gold and white gold which gold do you think if matches better with this particular design and watch?

[@watchartsci]

Kevin, that's really a matter of taste. I have several gold watches and a couple of them are white gold (which I cannot distinguish from stainless steel or platinum) Just what your good sense tells you. Take care, Bill

[@kevinhan721]

@WatchArtSci Thank you Bill! Appreciate your reply! I've been waiting for it! :) Yes, that's exactly what I concern about white gold being not distinguishable from stainless steel. Not that I want it to scream gold! Also I feel white color makes the watch more blend, and less colorful and fun. Also maybe white color is a bit modern feeling to it, which I think is not quite matching for such a classic watch. Thank you again!

[@CAP18]

Hi, I am going to buy a Vacheron Patrimony 42mm manual or a Historiques American 1921, but I have a question. Why despite they have the same caliber there is such a high price difference? Does it worth to buy the 1921? What’s the reason of this different price? Just a marketing decision or a better quality?

[@watchartsci]

For some reason, the 1921 is far more popular, has a more complex case and a tad more metal, Paolocap. However, the price difference seems a bit over the top, making the Patrimony a very good buy! (I have the 1921, but $15,000 difference is a whole lot!) Let me know what you do! Take care, Bill

[@CAP18]

@@watchartsci Thank you so much. I’ll let you know

[@CAP18]

@@watchartsci Thank you so much for your kind answer. I prefer the design of the 1921, but as you say 15.000€ difference does not seem justified

[@apars78]

Thanks Bill, my grail watch is [A. Lange & Söhne 1815 Auf / Ab] or for now [Dornblüth and Sohn 99.1]; would always prefer something I can wear and not hide it away in a locker.

[@watchartsci]

Apar! Great choices and a great reason for considering Dornblüth and Sohn! Kindest regards, Bill

[@CAP18]

Hi Bill, considering your kindness, I would like to ask you another question. Which caliber is better, the VC 1921 or the manual Langhe Saxonia?

[@watchartsci]

The only problem with the Saxonia is that they're only 35mm. Too small for me. My VC 4400 is super reliable, and I imagine one in a Patrimony would be the same. I like both watches, and the Saxonia Thin is 37mm, still a bit small for me but better than 35mm.(No second hand, though) As for comparative movements, raw L941.1 is 3Hz and the 4400 is 4Hz. Generally, I prefer lower frequencies of 3Hz and less, but in this case I'd take the Patrimony over the Saxonia. You can't go wrong with either. Good hunting! Bill

[@CAP18]

@@watchartsci Dear Bill I also like larger watches, and I love the 42mm Patrimony. I thank you so much fo your kind suggestions. Very best regards 🙏

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

On a totally different note was watching bark and jack watch utube, moritz grossman is handing out watches for trial to utube watch folks commentators , like yourself to try out for a whole year, they are doing this through red bar (don’t know what red bar is) they started off in UK and now coming to 🇺🇸

[@watchartsci]

Thanks Eddie. That guy has 31,000 subscribers and I only have about 6,000. I've been invited to a Red Bar meet-up in NYC, but it's a 6-hr round-trip, and that's more than I want. I'll see what's up with them, though. Maybe if they lent me one, I could give it to different subscribers for 1-month tryouts. Cheers, Bill

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

EWC is European Watch company, on their website, under brands, Vacheron thanks

[@watchartsci]

Wow! Found your VC and a Les Historiques Triple Calendar 1942 stainless steel for around $16k. That's a great negation starting point!

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

Hi Bill, strange thing happened, I have been contacting my Patek/ Rolex dealer for my wait list watches on a quarterly basis, checked to see if before Christmas he may have a aquanot or Pepsi or submariner no date in shop, he said no but he has the rarer Patek 5711/1A-010 blue dial, I was stumped, there is a 4 year waiting list on this watch, and I wasn’t on this, and the markup is 70% should I get it or not at retail????

[@watchartsci]

Eddie Devonrex 70% over list.. what’s called a ‘premium ‘? I don’t buy watches that way but some do. Only buy on quality; not popularity...now a Philippe Dufour Singularity is a watch worth a premium 👨‍🎨

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

That’s sounds like a great idea of sending it around to your subscribers, better get to it before Archie does

[@watchartsci]

I'll contact the Moritz Grossman PR people and see what I can do. Maybe.... Cheers, Bill

[@gilbertombp]

I wear my watch on my right arm, so this watch ain't gonna be for me, then. Still beautiful, though. I love the yellow gold variant.

[@watchartsci]

Ah Gilberto...yes, understand. Shall I keep my eye out for a right-wrist watch? Cheers, Bill

[@gilbertombp]

@@watchartsci Much appreciated. :D Cheers. By the way, my grail would be an A. Lange & Soehne 1815 Up/Down. I've found a Vacheron model that I like, it's the Historiques Triple Calendar 1942 with brown strap.

[@hendragouw451]

These are one of my grail watches... Too bad in my country, the secondary market for VC almost not exist.. all pre-owned focus mostly Rolex and omega.

[@watchartsci]

What country is that Hendra? Cheers, Bill

[@hendragouw451]

WatchArtSci jakarta indonesia bill... even only have 2Ad for all brands... so monoply...

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

Your one on chrono 24, mercury trading out of Switzerland, personally Swiss maybe better to negotiate with rather than the germans👍My VC Royal is at EWC, 2014, I sold my Breguet so I have a little to start off with, I think u can get yours low 30s, I feel with independent watch companies on the line u have a bit more room vs a Rolex

[@watchartsci]

Rolex doesn't budge a bit. (Maybe used & desperate...) What is EWC? Do you have a link? Thanks,Bill

[@littleeagle7664]

Hi Bill, thanks for your efforts with these videos. Do you have any sports watch suggestions for someone who lives in a hot climate? My spending limit is about $5K but I do not mind if the watch is used in mint condition. Presently I only have a Tudor Black Bay (reference 79230N-0002). I've been considering some of Omega's Master Chronometer offerings. I guess my realistic grail watch would be a 42mm Gerard Perregaux Laureto. I believe they retail for about $11K but you can get them for about $8K. I find it difficult to find stores that carry a large selection of nice watches to try them on and I'm always hesitant to spend that much money without first trying on the watch. Over the last five months I've enjoyed and learned a great deal watching your videos. Thanks again.