GraXpert AI Background Correction in PixInsight!! BUT BEWARE!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Repository: www.ideviceapps.de/PixInsight/Utilities/ Thanks to Lukomatico for suggesting the before - after in PixelMath! www.youtube.com/@lukomatico My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek Amazon affiliate: amzn.to/3hTB5Ne Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG High Point Scientific affiliate: bit.ly/3lReu8R All-Star Telescope affiliate: bit.ly/3SCgVbV

[@astrophotocologne]

Hi Cuiv, great video again! Let me add just a few things. The smoothing is set to zero, as the AI already creates very very smooth results. Compared to older methods like, DBE or such, the smoothing of zero relates plus minus to a large smoothing factor in the common tools. Thats why it is set to zero as default. Our recommendation would be to leave it there and only change it if really neccessary. Yes it would be nice to inspect the background in PI, we already working on it :-) I have now worked on many images with the AI and of course in some cases it will remove some object detail. So thats why no one should trust it without checking it carefully. Sometimes you need to switch to the older hands on methods. Also, still everyone is very welcome to send us those pictures, so we can improve the software. CS Frank

[@Rafastro]

Avid user of this wonderful tool here, what I have learned to do is to go straight to the masters before I even open them up in Pixinsight and use grxpt right there. Does wonders to individual filters.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks so much for those details Frank! And of course for the overall program :)

[@rjf471]

Latest GraXpert 2.2.0 with PI Script V1.4 now incorporates option to show derived background within PI. Many thanks for heads up this tool available and how to use. Great video.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep, they watched the video! And now there's a new Gradient Extraction tool in PI!

[@lukomatico]

Excellent work as always my friend, what can I say haha!! you always knock it out of the park :-D Hopefully the background inspect will be added in the next build or something! :-) Clear skies bud!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks so much Luke! Fingers crossed it does get added, they're apparently working on it!

[@TwoHandUke]

Hi Cuiv, A really detailed rundown of the pros and cons. I’m sorry to hear about the C6 and loved watching update on its build and use. I hope you will get round to replacing it 😢. THU

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks man, not sure to be honest, it's crazy expensive in Japan these days...

[@jdat]

thank you so much for bringing attention to this! i havent used this script at all because it doesnt give the background, ai graxpert takes out nebulosity way too often to not double check. also, i recommend trying division in graxpert first, then use subtraction even if it doesnt look like theres much gradient left. the combination of both, division then subtraction, always gives me the best results

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Interesting on division vs subtraction, in theory it works better as you described only if your flats didn't fully correct for your optics though, I'll need to test

[@astromadness]

Thanks for the quick tutorial. I have problems understanding some of the tools in PI and I'm never entirely sure on the effect different sliders and check boxes have on my images. I just to it 'parrot fashion' if you like, and then run with whatever comes out. But GraXpert has certainly cleared up the whole dilemma for me when it comes to using ABE or DBE, and the way you've explained it here makes life so much simpler. Thank you so much 🙂to the writers of GraXpert, and also to you Cuiv for a well explained video!

[@rossc383]

Dear creators of Graxpert and the plugin, please add an option to normalize images as well

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yes that would be excellent!

[@AstroCloudGenerator]

Another well timed video. I totally agree and had come to the same conclusion. I always like to check the background model whichever tool I am using. If the background model looks anything like the object, it has to be wrong.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Exactly, doing blind background extraction can be bad for health lol

[@crawfprof]

Just an FYI, I've been using GraXPert on my M1 MacBook Pro, integrated with PixInsight, the same way you're doing on your Windows machine. Works like a charm. Like you, I really like to look at the extracted background to verify what it's doing.

[@nikaxstrophotography]

works beautifully so far have not had an issue with it on my mac

[@seriousbassface]

Was just going to say same, not sure why I tried to install in Pixinsight anyways but glad I did lol.

[@ntaylorblanchard]

So sorry to hear about your C6. Based partly on your videos I've made a C6 Hyperstar setup. I've only just started using it but I love it.

[@calimark7448]

Yes, I use it! I have also noticed that when used as an external app, it looses the astronomical data and I have to resolve the image before using SPCC. Not a huge deal but... Thanks for the vid! Clear skies!!!

[@Heather-qi3bh]

🤦‍♀️ that’s why I’m having to resolve before spcc. Thought it was running into a problem during wbpp that it wasn’t telling me about!! Didn’t think about the above!!!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Argh yes there's this issue with using it externally! No perfect solution!

[@astrodug]

Hey Quiv. Great video, as always. After watching your video, I became curious and did a little test. I processed the same image of the horsehead twice in GraXpert. Once with AI, and once using the RBF interpolation method, creating the grid, and removing points that were on nebulosity. The RBF method where I tweeked the grid points, showed more faint nebulosity and was a much better result than the AI. I know us lazy geeks love AI, but the results were better when I used RBF, and removed grid points manualy.

[@AstroQuest1]

Thanks Cuiv and GraXpert (and Lukmatio) for this BE. Just a note - It works fine as a stand alone but I did intall it through PI and it opens it up as if it were still a stand alone - it still works well. Since I am a software 'moron', I wonder what I did wrong to make do this? - Haha. I swear I did the same things as you and Luk did but I will redo it again. Cheers

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That's weird, no idea what could be causing this!!

[@bengterlandsson7921]

Got it installed today to improve the background extraction. And indeed it does a great job of removing the background gradients. Kept the smoothing factor at 0 as suggested by the developer. Tested on 2 images first and Ha image of NGC6888 and then the blue colour filter image of M101. The gradients on both images disappeared but even though the background now was even across the whole image the background now consist of a faint grey colour with black pixels all over. Not happy with that result but I’ll test again with the smoothing factor set to 1 next time and se if the result improves. Hopefully future updates will improve the quality. 😊

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep, hope it gets better and better!

[@KingLoopie1]

Condolences on the loss of the c6 ... I wish mfg's would provide lightweight handles and include them with every scope above about 60mm diameter. I hope you can get a replacement... Thanks for the tips on the Graxpert install into pixinsight! 👍

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks... Not sure whether I'll get a replacement C6, they're so darn expensive these days...

[@fazergazer]

I’ll keep using it outside as well! Thanks for the heads up ❤🎉

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Have fun!

[@2-Grooves-Low]

Hey Cuiv, just for some clarification, but GraXpert plugin works under the latest version of MacOS. I'm running it on a Mac Studio so it works on Apple Silicon. Great video!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks for the feedback, good to know!

[@Jcorban08]

Thank you for the excellent explanations. They were most helpful. Sorry to hear about the C6 corrector plate 😢

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks!

[@andreya108]

Just tested: GraXpert 2.2.0 with the latests Toolbox script works fine under Linux. And it can create background model like DBE does.. 👍

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Awesome, thanks for sharing!

[@linuxastro]

Hey Cuiv! I tried GraXpert under Ubuntu Linux and find that AI =is= an option for the Linux version, though it was not the default. When I installed the PixInsight plugin, it did download the AI module automatically upon the first run instance (as evidenced by the process console). Cheers! Great video!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That's awesome, so it works on Linux too!

[@FAstroHD]

Another fantastic video, thanks mate great tips on what to look out for using GraXpert, sucks about the C6 mate

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks mate and thanks for the support!

[@Infinity_Focus]

Hei Cuiv, thanks for you insights. Just one comment on your workflow. When subtracting the background of an image taken with a dual band filter, I'd suggest to extract the Ha and Oiii channels first and than apply a background extraction method on each channel. With this approach you shouldn't be loosing any (in this case Oiii) signal due to your background extraction. By the way. Altair is shipping some 6nm and 4nm Ha/Oiii as well as Sii/Oiii filters soon and I'm looking forward to measure and test them (+comparison this L-extreme). Cheers Florian ;)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That sounds like far too much work Flo lol But I'll try it out

[@Infinity_Focus]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek you lazy, lazy geek ;) In fact it's pretty easy and fast. Channel extraction take about a minute or so. Splitting the image into R, G and B is a push of a button. To extract Ha and Oiii I have a pixel math button saved. Than you just have to perform GraXpert (and maybe also other steps) twice. In my experience it's worth the little bit of extra time ;)

[@andrewweller5119]

i have been using GraXpert in Pix for a couple of weeks and agree it can be a bit agressive on it's extraction and i too will be using as a stand alone app until it pix intergration is complete. Also i feel i am starting to feel that i am losing my personal touch on my images by using all these AI apps. Don't get em wrong, they are great and are the future but i just feel like we are losing some control on how our images look and feel.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I understand what you mean about losing touch... To be honest I still use DBE a lot because of that

[@kerravon4893]

New version has the "Show background model" option :)

[@naegeleh]

Thanks a lot for these important Information 🙏🏼

[@darkrangersinc]

Having issues with it on many faint targets it’s completely destroying the image. GraXpert AI mode has been very hit or miss sometimes it works seemingly better on some targets and completly erodes the signal on others.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yeah, thus the importance of double checking the background!

[@RyanParle81]

Ironically I am the other way, I didn't touch graxpert until it could be integrated with PixInsight! The hassle of saving and loading the image several times is too much for me. I also set the smoothing factor to 1.00 and then dragged the green triangle to the workspace to create a process icon to save my settings, i simply drag it to the image when I'm ready to remove the background

[@oocoder]

FYI the plugin works on MAC

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks for letting us know!

[@haiderbhogadia4829]

Hi lazyGreek this is great many thanks for this. Best wishes Haider

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks, you too!

[@mattestabrook]

Very interesting video, Cuiv--thanks very much. I'm sorry to hear about your C6! I did the same thing with mine, and it was my only rig, so I was heartbroken until I was able to replace it. I have a question about GraXpert--does the PixInsight script import the image from GraXpert in the same format (e.g. FITS) as the original image, or some other format? I had heard somewhere it was the latter, and I was concerned about maintaining image quality and depth of data if I used the script rather than using GraXpert the "old fashioned" way. Thanks again!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I honestly don't know - could simply be an imageStream of the same bit depth, but don't know

[@indysbike3014]

Tried it once and took out a large part of the red nebulosity. I’ll keep using Siril for the moment.

[@epielanonimo]

Hey, @CuivTheLazyGeek , what problems are you experiencing with the Touptel 585? Next weekend I might have my first propper clear night since I got the camera and I don't want to waste it shooting in HDR mode if it's gonna end up bad but I'd prefer to get the 14stop DR from HDR mode.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Vertical banding - definitely use HCG for now. I'm using it from Tokyo so it should be good for anyone :)

[@epielanonimo]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek That's sad, hope they fix it. Thanks!

[@keithhanssen7413]

Graxpert just hangs up in PixInsight on my brand new pc.

[@ukastroimaging1016]

What's Russ Crowman up to these days.....???

[@mattestabrook]

Good question--I've been wondering myself if he's been at work on a GradientXterminator AI!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep, I hope he's working on something like that!

[@rainerehlert]

Hi, Thanks for the video and I wanted to follow your instructions but when I download GraXpert from their website, the downloded file is a *.msi (Windows Installer file) and not as you showed in your downloads, an *.exe file. So, what now?

[@ticcc3]

for me graxpert just hangs on the loading screen it never boots up. i have some older images id like to try it with pritty sure its way over hyped so not worried s:

[@georgedicker9789]

HI, thanks for another amazing video, I've been trying to this on my pc but when i click the GraXpert script it doesnt run in the back ground it just opens up GraXpert in another window and doesnt run in PI. Any ideas? It says this in the process control "2023-12-29 07:30:56.906807: I tensorflow/core/platform/cpu_feature_guard.cc:182] This TensorFlow binary is optimized to use available CPU instructions in performance-critical operations. To enable the following instructions: SSE SSE2 SSE3 SSE4.1 SSE4.2 AVX AVX2 FMA, in other operations, rebuild TensorFlow with the appropriate compiler flags"

[@johnfrancke8980]

you did what to your C6?

[@jtepsr]

I use dbc

[@user-dg2hw1rn8d]

Would it make sense to run GraXpert on flats to check for gradients?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

You mean gradients from the optics in addition to the obvious vignetting stuff? ABE with degree 2 is probably the better choice then

[@Lord_Volkner]

Content no longer valid as GraXpert has changed. The repository link also doesn't work any longer.

[@philleng480]

RIP the C6, 😪

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yeah... :-(

[@pickleroo253]

i have never managed to get Graxpert to run all i get is a not responding message.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Maybe some hardware requirements :(

[@Shawny164]

have the same thing looked up a bit on it nothing changed after trying many things

[@user-dz3ph7dl4m]

works on linux

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Awesome to hear, thank you!

[@Astro_Shed]

Does not download without being flagged as a virus, and even when turning AV off, it will download but will not run, just hangs and throws an error after 30 seconds, same on 3 different windows 11 machines…..they can’t all be wrong….☹☹

[@bobhenderson7077]

I had a problem running GraXpert on my machine as well. It turned out it would not run with a second monitor running as an extended display. I ended up running the second monitor as a duplication instead of extended. I don't know if that was your problem or not but I thought I would throw that out there just in case. It may have been because the second monitor was being used as the primary display.

[@Astro_Shed]

@@bobhenderson7077 thanks, but no, just one monitor…👍🏻

[@clarky_astro]

I had the same issue with BitDefender, reported it to them, they checked and accepted that it was their AV systems reporting a false positive. They updated their system in a day or two. Suggest you do the same if still having issues

[@Astro_Shed]

@@clarky_astro I have got it to download, but it still will not run, just throws an error and hangs…☹

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Weird that you have this issue - I'm of the opinion dedicated anti viruses are no longer useful (the built in MS anti malware, etc. works well) and cause more problems than they solve but that's just me :)

[@ciskje71]

I too have problems with the Touptek IMX585 in HDR mode, Karas sent me a modified version of the FPGA (4.8) that partially solves the problem, but after several field tests I don't feel like recommending this mode. Rather I am curious about your first tests in HDR, had you only done sensor tests or actually used it? Now SharpCap directly supports Touptek's SDK also! (please contact me!)

[@ScottDavies]

How's the camera working out in HCG mode? I also have this camera and my 1st attempt using the HDR mode failed badly!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I thought I had but I can't find the data anymore!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

HCG works extremely well

[@ciskje71]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek don't worry: HCG 100 Gain e/ADU 1.0 Read Noise (e) 0.77 Full Well 4112 (LOW!) Dynamic Range (Stops) 12.00 It is good, but with only 12 bits, such a large e/ADU, it is difficult to use it in urban location. HDR with 14-bit can be a lot better if Touptek can fix this mode.