Great Pronunciation Wars - How Do You Really Pronounce Cirno?

[@Megapig9001]

Oh my god I can’t believe Chillno might actually be right lmao; good video. I say “Sirno”, but as someone who did take Japanese in High School, that does sound wrong.

[@DeltaPie]

I say Sir-no as well (though I think I'll keep switching pronunciations for the funny). But yes, chill-no unexpectedly has a minimal amount of mental gymnastics needed to reach it.

[@asuuki2048]

I discovered her character recently, and after I saw her Japanese name, I immediately thought, “oh, is it supposed to be Chill-No, since she’s based on ice?” Like, chill would just make perfect sense. Perhaps the creator just used an r in her name since Japanese interchanges them:

[@masterspark9880]

I like cheer-no because 1. It’s very close to the Japanese pronunciation, just without the unnatural-in-English middle syllable 2. That’s how it sounds to me in Scarlet Police on Ghetto Patrol

[@DeltaPie]

I do like the sound of cheer-no, even if I don't pronounce it that way.

[@slimgrim3607]

​@@DeltaPie i have a better idea. why dont we just pronounce it Chy ruh noo, a name everyone can agree is wrong?

[@f.u.m.o.5669]

Wouldn't Chirno be the better version of Cheerno tho? Why go with the wrong one?

[@lpfan4491]

@@f.u.m.o.5669 Chirno-chan best ice fairy.

[@MaddoScientist0]

fun fact: in italian we really say cheer-no because that's how we read the letters by default, so perhaps cirno really is italian

[@DeltaPie]

I KNEW IT.

[@TheSteam02]

Italians don't exist

[@speedstriker]

Cirno and spaghetti is too powerful

[@internetrules8522]

i got "Chur-no" from listening to Scarlet Police on Ghetto Patrol and thinking that the "Chi-ru-no" sounded kind of like the word "churn", but then add an O to the end.

[@adamofblastworks1517]

Chernobyl

[@DeltaPie]

Oh, that does make sense. I suppose in that way its kind of similar to cheer-no.

[@internetrules8522]

this was fun episode. i very much appreciated this. it even has a bunch of links of 9 stuff to watch on 9 day.

[@D_clocktale]

Чиллно спросила у Цирно: "Правда, что Чируно - Сырно?" "Нет" - ответила Тируно "Я тебе не Сыруно"

[@fily-jpg]

Как по мне, и в русском и в английском это цирно, чкйндж май мацнд

[@tasty_cake6563]

сырно спрашивает сырно, какая твоя профессия

[@dakotabless4800]

I always call her 'Baka Blue' but one time i've meet a person who call her as 'Chairno'

[@化けの花]

I am now going to call her Chairno. They should change Cirno's power to controlling chairs in Touhou 19.

[@themambawarrior2290]

I will use any and all of these pronunciations at any time with no consistency

[@DeltaPie]

That is my goal as well.

[@TorrentialStardust]

I always assumed "chur-no", sometimes morphing into "cheer-no". Her name and the vampires' names both sounded Italian, and Italian does that with C's.

[@DeltaPie]

I can see Italian Cirno, but Italian Remilia and Flandre? I’m not sure how they sound Italian, especially Flandre.

[@TorrentialStardust]

@@DeltaPie OK hear me out: with Remilia, it sounds a lot like emilia/amelia, which is Latin, and although I'm definitely pronouncing Flandre wrong in my head, I can imagine someone with a bad accent saying "ayyy!" after saying it.

[@TheMrUnx49]

@@DeltaPie i mean it's canonical that the Scarlet sisters are from Europe soooooo...

[@vonakakkola]

@@DeltaPie i'm italian and Remilia sounds very italian for me, Flandre would be a "strange" name but it can be an italian name too

[@seancatacombs]

Genuinely thought she was based on some fairy from Italian folklore because how Italian-y the name "Cirno" just looks. "Remilia" sounds more Spanish to me, mainly because of "Remi", which is also a shortened name for Remedios.

[@GeorgeFosberry]

Дети, щас Сырна проведёт для вас урок лингвистики

[@accountforcirno]

Склоняется ли Сырна/о? И: Сырна Сырно Р: Сырну Сырно Д: Сырне Сырно В: Сырну Сырно Т: Сырной Сырно П: о Сырне о Сырно И если да, то к чему?

[@GeorgeFosberry]

@@accountforcirno всё так, "Сырна" склоняется, "Сырно" нет. Склонение используется для дополнительного комического эффекта, как, например, с украинскими фамилиями ("Передай Нечипоренке что он дурак").

[@Aaaaaaaa-xz8wb]

Скорее уж переводоведения

[@noguesssandbread4374]

This name is so confusing that people have started a war for the real pronunciation of the ice fairy baka's name. ZUN is just a genius. happy late 9 day

[@DeltaPie]

Happy Cirno Day!

[@starlii10]

"How do you pronounce Cirno?" "That's the neat part, you don't"

[@siroak3304]

I went in expecting a meme video with whacky names. I got a linguistic class. Great video, pal, i'll check your other stuff.

[@pleaserespond3984]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the possibility of it being based on "cirrus", as in "cirrus cloud" - "a genus of high cloud made of ice crystals" (from wikipedia). Cirrus is pronounced with a "si-" sound, which would make sirno the natural way to pronounce cirno if it is indeed based on the type of cloud. Of course, in Latin, where English took the word from, cirrus is pronounced with a hard k (kirus). BUT ALSO, the Japanese pronunciation of "cirrus" is "シーラス" - "shiirasu", so is that really what ZUN was going for? Is it based on how a little child would pronounce the word, stumbling over that starthing shii and replacing it with an easier chi sound? In closing, the only correct pronunciation is Beloved Tomboyish Daughter.

[@DeltaPie]

I can't say I've heard the cirrus theory before. Sir-no is the natural way to pronounce C-I-R-N-O in English, cloud or not. I think it's plausible, but chill-no is likelier if we're going with the name-meaning angle.

[@azumaz_dot_net3641]

perfect timing

[@DeltaPie]

hmm I wonder why

[@internetrules8522]

it was a one in 365 chance we got really lucky

[@slavaxkt5997]

10:42 I literally died at this part Good stuff, my dude

[@FinalLychee]

I remember suggesting "Chillno" on a forum over a decade ago and basically got called a heretic. Happy to see it caught on somewhat.

[@remixtheidiot5771]

The letter "L" doesn't exist in Japanese. There are plenty of Japanese media that confuse r and l all the time. Hilariously I've watched anime where characters try to say English words but confuse the r and l phonemes entirely. Things like "I rove you" or "that's vely gleat!" are all things I've heard Japanese voice actors say on some media before. It is entirely possible, though not something we can prove unless ZUN says something to address it, which he probably never will that... Due to the aforementioned reasons explained above... "chillno" could indeed be a feasible correct pronunciation, and ZUN simply miswrote what should have been "chillno" as "cirno". As for the "ci" part, when turning Japanese characters into readable Romaji English, the "ta" line consisting of (ta, chi, tsu, te, to) can be written as (ta, ti/chi/ci, tu/tsu/šu, te, to) Any way of conversion are generally accepted by the translating community. ZUN probably did minimal research on the alphabet, and wrote Cirno as it is and called it a day. The name itself has no real meaning due to being written in katakana like many other fairies. Though lily and clownpiece seem to have obvious inspirations. Hearing your argument, I think zun wanted to write a cute and short way of saying "chill girl" with (chiru no shoujo) or something. All just speculation though. Pronunciation wars are dumb. Don't go spreading this as fact like stupid Araki forgots. That's spreading of misinformation. Conclusion? The correct pronunciation is (TIRUNO)

[@RieMUisthegoaT]

doesn't japanese also doesn't have an r sound? like their r/l/ら letter is a mix of both or something

[@the2323guy]

this probably explains why "flandre" is sometimes written as "frandre"

[@Roboboboto]

@@RieMUisthegoaT this reply is late but Japanese does have a r (らりるれろ, ra ri ru re ro) it’s just that r and l use the same sound like how b (ばびぶべぼ) and v are. Edit: to add on romaji is phonetic so everything is spelled how it sounds. So ち makes the sound of chi and not ti like how し makes the sound of shi and not si or how つ is tsu and not tu. Ti would be spelled like てぃ, te using a small i. Words like しゃしん use small characters as well ( しゃ being shi and small ya to make the sound sha)

[@funkyanimalsREAL]

@@Roboboboto i keep on confusing sa and chi 😿 but anyways i really like this explanation

[@Kitsunegami]

technically it does, its a Hard L sound, which is also the same or similar to a soft r, so they are interchangeable

[@grillygrilly]

Tsirno is a nice pronunciation. It is how I would imagine the pronunciation if it were in German. It might be spelled as Zirno. But Tschirno would also be hilarious.

[@Tessee-kf5ii]

Tshiairnokovsky’s perfect music class

[@DIO.S_STANDAH]

U even touched ru bros segment Applauds to you

[@bulb9970]

3:00 Actually both the Portuguese and Spanish pronunciations are Seer-no and not Sir-no. That’s the way I always naturally pronounced it, though Chi-ru-no does sound cute.

[@DeltaPie]

Hmm, there's problem some contention over it but seer-no does seem better.

[@burningadri6775]

The Spanish pronunciation would be /'θiɾno/ (thihrnoh?), though. Source: I'm from Spain.

[@Someone45356]

@@burningadri6775 that would be spanish from spain’s accent, in peru it would be sir-no

[@burningadri6775]

@@Someone45356 Well, it's still not Seer-no like Bulb said.

[@Someone45356]

@@burningadri6775 yeah but i never even mentioned seer-no so i have no idea where your comment comes from lmao

[@qoombert]

also in old english was for k, but it was sometimes palatalized into ch. French brought the ts pronounciation

[@qoombert]

cheenr-no

[@diobrando3119]

I just pronounce it as I read it: as Cirno.

[@Kitsunegami]

ah yes just like lead lead read read

[@CibuYT]

got on your channel thanks to the bad apple compilation clicked on your channel the channel banner video popped up immidiately hooked even if I don't know anything about touhou also i'm french so I'd say sear-no

[@DeltaPie]

Aha glad you liked it! Enjoy your stay!

[@SuperGateway]

I think this all comes from the fucked translation from eosd Rumia/Lumia (darkness youkai) Cirno/Chillno (ice fairy) Hon Meirin/Hong Meiling (Chinese name) And in some cases frandle/flandre lol

[@DeltaPie]

In part yes. This entire situation could have been resolved if Cirno's name was romanized accurately in a non-conflicting manner.

[@bolson42]

The thing is though, the “fucked” translations actually make more sense if you take romanized rules into account. Like Hong Meiling, you don’t actually pronounce the g’s in Japanese, but we write that in English because that’s how Chinese is denoted in English. However because romaji is basically just transliterated (with some exceptions, i’ll get into that) it takes away the g’s. The main exception is the sound for “r”. In Japanese the “r” sound is more in between the L and R, but romaji dictates that it’s always R, even though to English speakers it sounds like L (it’s functionally closer to R due to the part of the tongue it uses but it’s harder which makes it sound like an L). This is what’s hard about localizing names. Do you realize that all of these are non-Japanese names transliterated to Japanese, and then transliterated AGAIN to English? So the main question is, do you want foreign readers to pronounce the names like their origin (not Japanese) or how they were designed (in Japanese). If the former, then we would use stuff like Hong Meiling. But if you want to use the Japanese pronunciations you would use Hon Meirin. This makes it hard in localizations because you do want readers to pronounce the name how they were designed, but they don’t “look” right if they don’t like like they were correctly transliterated from their language of origin.

[@bolson42]

TLDR this is complicated cuz ZUN transliterated non-Japanese names to Japanese, so a foreigner would either have to pronounce it the Japanese way as ZUN intended, or as the “correct” way in the language of origin (which may still be incorrect because some names are entirely made up and only “evoke” a Japanese persons understanding of a western name, like Furandooru). So my proposal is to write every name how they would be written in their language of origin, but everytime their name is first mentioned, in parentheses add their Japanese romanization. So for example “Hong Meiling (Hon Meirin)”, “Flandre (Furandooru)”, and finally if Chillno is what ZUN drew Cirno’s name from, “Chillno (Chiruno)”.

[@neonn9527]

I know this video is a year old but "chur-no" pronouncer here. I honestly started pronouncing it cheer or chiru because of PVs and touhou youtubers I grew up watching, but gave up putting emphasis on the "ee" sound after a while. Great video btw!

[@DeltaPie]

Ah, that makes sense, thanks. A lot of the pronunciations can be reached in different ways.

[@Kagawwy]

I can't believe you could forget 9ball

[@DeltaPie]

That falls under "nine".

[@Kagawwy]

@@DeltaPie Fair enough

[@Ashen0]

For some reason even if I pronounce her as sir-no regularly, I sometimes pronounce her as cirno cherr-nou

[@zen-airstrike]

i think cirno pronounced as "Снегурочка". (или сырно)

[@1INBAL]

It's pronounce BAKA. Here problem solved no more war

[@DeltaPie]

Yes, that is the point of pronunciations like Nine.

[@ticklezcat5191]

Thanks for teaching me how to pronounce DiGiorno's name.

[@arcanedarkling]

Ok, with my (a little less than decent but more than people that don't speak it) knowledge of Japanese I must say... It's difficult to make up for Cirno's name pronunciation. チルノ's romaji spelling is normally put as "Chiruno" however, It can also be "Tiruno". Why tho? Well, there are 2 romanization systems in Japanese: Kunrei shiki and Hepburn and blah blah... But that is not relevant. As you can see, ルナチャイルド (Runa Chairudo) is the katakana form of Luna Child. This is because Japanese doesn't have the same sounds English has (It has fewer), so ルナチャイルド (Runa Chairudo) is the nearest to Luna Child. That is cuz the Name is an English name and it was put in Katakana so people would know how to pronounce it. However, Cirno's name is different. In Japanese, the English word "right" becomes "ライト (Raito)", however, "Light" is also "ライト (Raito)"...... This is cuz they don't have an L sound, due to their R being pronounced almost like an L. If you go to Japan, and ask someone if it's Ra (like in English but a little bit different), Ra (Close to L but not an L) and La, they will be confused as they see them as the same... Or so I have heard. So the "R" in チルノ (Chiruno) can also be pronounced as an L. SO the name "Cirno" can also be a mistake made by ZUN, as English and Japanese are very different languages. He wanted to make a cool English name, but didn't know how to "translate it" to English, as instead of multiple words, like most fairies, he named her (most likely) as a pun (Chill → チル or Chiru) and added just ノ (no) to be more like a name. So yes, the (probably) most correct way to make チルノ (Chiruno) a word in English keeping the pun intention in Japanese is "Chillno"! But why Cirno? ZUN probably thought "EH Japanese can't end in vowels other than n, so I will just pretend that the Ru was meant to be an R, and remove the H cuz idk it looks *cool* " So basically... Chiruno → C -h- ir -u- no. Dammit ZUN, drunk again....! So that's why in Eastern and Little Nature Deity it's put as "Chilno" (tho they missed an L.... as in the Japanese translation is not really obvious that chiru is intended to have double l... but oh well, this is probably what gives it away as Chillno, the "Correct" way of spelling her name in English... along with the "correct pronunciation).... Well, I just say Chirno cuz many times in Japanese the "u" is not really pronounced... But it's probably Chillno...... Thanks for reading this existential crisis and analysis.

[@DeltaPie]

Yeah I think that's a definite possibility

[@nep-nep6575]

My favorite walking, talking air conditioner

[@Daiuh]

A very well done and entertaining video. Good work 👍

[@yukko_parra]

⑨ is the equivalent pronunciation as china as both have a war about reading

[@DeltaPie]

China is more of a nickname though. Nobody says that "Meiling" is pronounced chi-na, they just say China as a separate name from Meiling. With Nine, its sometimes being used as a pronunciation for Cirno, not as a nickname.

[@yukko_parra]

@@DeltaPie o thanks for the info!

[@化けの花]

I'm personally a Cheer-no/Chi-ru-no person.

[@mayajade6198]

In my accent, "Sear-no" is the most natural reading of soft-c "Cirno," while "Sir-no" would be more like "Sur-no." Same with "Cheer-no" vs "Chir-no" ("Chur-no"). But I would like to add that if you asked a Japanese person to write "Cirno" in roman letters there's a decent chance they'd spell it "Tiruno," because in Japanese, "ch" is an allophone of "t" that occurs before "i" extremely predictably, so there's no need to spell it with anything other than "t." Syllables like "cha," "chu," and "cho" are distinguished from "ta," "tu," and "to" by spelling them as "tya," "tyu," and "tyo," respectively, which reflects how these syllables are spelled in hiragana. Since Japanese just doesn't have a plain "ti" syllable, loanwords with the "ti" sound are instead rendered with "chi," and depending on your preferences it can be perfectly reasonable to translate "chi" in a made-up word from Japanese orthography as "ti" or "ty." Therefore I propose that the best compromise is that we should all pronounce it "Tyrno."

[@lunar_winshiro9876]

Ну Сырно и в Африке Сырно.

[@sergsputnik8568]

СЫРНО is the way!

[@Kitsunegami]

the thing about chi-ru-no and "cheer-no"/"chill-no" is that they are both said by the japanese some people dont pronounce the "u" in some words like desu (des), suki (ski), purogramu (program). while others do like cirno (chiruno) im pretty sure there is a rule to when you are able to do this but the fact that "cheer-no"/"chill-no" is also a japanese pronounciation (even though less popular than chi-ru-no) makes the pronounciation more legit than plenty others (like sir-no and... kir-no) now since the japanese R is a soft r, it is also used as a hard L, since both "cheer" and "chill" follow the soft r, and hard L respectivelly they are acceptable variations of the same pronounciation

[@pyrojinn]

I been calling her sir-no but now chil-no made more sense.

[@qoombert]

сырно means cheesily. literally

[@Kaccel]

Nice video. Very based. Ill give it a ⑨/⑨. tho il stick to "сырно".

[@StealerOfPreciousThings]

In soviet russia we can call her сырник

[@WindowsDrawer]

Cheesno

[@SoloWing88]

Her name is pronounced Hustler One chan Love, an armored core fan

[@doomhermit4694]

i went from sir-no to kir-no because it sounds better in my head

[@AllVoiceHowdy]

this video is amazing

[@agaed7676]

In the case of a word like colonel, the pronounciation changed from colonel to kernal because of a misunderstanding between french and englidh speakers rather than just being because peoplel felt like it

[@madichelp0]

The real Cirno move is to know how it's pronounced but pronounce it wrong anyway.

[@normanclatcher]

⑨no

[@IshijimaKairo]

Chi-ru-no and Cheer-no Everything else is barbarism.

[@vonakakkola]

just one thing about "Giovanni", the first "i" is silent, you should read as "Jovanni", and if "cirno" is an italian word, it would be pronunced "cheerno"

[@trace6314]

i got to churno because i took sirno, which is how youd think youd pronounce it in english, and replaced the s with a ch. thats about it. although honestly as long as you pronounce the "c" as "ch" i think your pronunciation is good enough because god knows what zun was thinking

[@ImNotFunny541]

My favorite TouHou character, Chernobyl.

[@Okuu__Gaming_1]

I just alternate between all of them so I can piss everyone off

[@qoombert]

Tir(u)no is the ultimate form

[@bolson42]

It’s really easy to see why people say it like “seerno”, since most of the time when you see cir in english it will be pronounced with a soft s (basically any word related to circle). But the important thing to know is that this is a japanese game series with japanese pronunciations, there is a right and wrong answer. So there’s really nothing “wrong” about thinking it’s pronounced seerno but i feel like once you hear the correct pronunciation you should just try and use that.

[@ellotheearthling]

The best solution is to not pronounce it at all, just call her "the dumb touhou ice fairy" and people will know who you are referring to.

[@Lapizisnothere]

that's an easy question "kasztan"

[@BlackbeltHitoshi]

Churno and krino are the funniest pronounciations so i use them.

[@CainRG1]

Well I always thought of it like Chur-no but now I'm way more confused than I ever was before I clicked on this video and I think from now on I'll go with the Japanese Chi-ru-no

[@Choco_nanda_2064]

As a Brazilian I always said sear-no but chill-no is also good, but I will call her ni-no for now

[@Hunter87B]

I just call Cirno "Cirno" as a brazilian

[@Nachtel]

my favorite ice fairy, churno giovanna

[@davidmapping4041]

When I saw “Sir-No” 😵‍💫

[@kuroblakka]

I pronounce it as chi-ru-no because it is easier compared to cheer-no for someone who speaks my mother tongue, Turkish, due to it being very similar to Japanese. But I spell it as ⑨.

[@ultralight9625]

I think I decided to pronounce it Cheer-no entirely on my own.

[@bronyafan]

Siryes

[@toortyb]

i say sirno,cheernoor chi ru no

[@Tutranmedi]

I like to call Cirno, the “but police officer she’s 60”

[@magic2546]

And then there's me who's been saying Keerno this entire time. Kind of like Searno, but with a K sound.

[@geomeidash]

i always say it "sirno" 💀

[@DeltaPie]

good

[@gohmingyi4792]

#MeToo

[@gohmingyi4792]

Wait wrong hashtag

[@dontlookfo2763]

my brother pronounces it as chur-no and when i first heard him do that i like had to do a double take

[@Aaaaaaaa-xz8wb]

6:38 Well, you _almost_ succeeded

[@replikvltyoutube3727]

Cirnobyl

[@CloverPegs]

i'm always going to defend shit like "Lumia" and "Chillno" because they feel like intentional wordplay limited by the japaese lexicon. but also saying rumia and chiruno/chirno will always be a bit more accurate since people actually use that.

[@borivoje644]

My face when the Balkan language has a funny letter Ц and I can freely say it as Цирно and still be correct due to our amazing yet complex (and sometimes dumb) grammar.

[@lolizero265]

HAPPY CIRNO DAY!

[@naidesurin]

Chiruno

[@corneliusmcmuffin3256]

I say “sir-no” but I’m pretty sure the Japanese pronunciation is “shi-ru-no” or “chi-ru-no”

[@DeltaPie]

It is (chi-ru-no), but that doesn't mean that the English pronunciation can't be different.

[@RazorToaster]

Chry-in-o

[@Kraneberger]

Me looking at my mother tongue German: Don't say it. Say what? Z I R N O

[@jadebayoba7073]

I will call her cirno (s-i-r-n-o-h) and i don't care whtever yall say

[@yukko_parra]

i pronounce it as chur-no having a sharp 'i' sound is annoying... although, i usually resort to chiruno every now and then... if i ever need to speak japanese that is.

[@abdallahhopali5869]

Hey guys have something to say some people didn't even realize that in bad apple they said Cirnos name correct

[@DeltaPie]

Cirno is not present or even mentioned in Bad Apple though?

[@capybara1232]

i say cirno like how its written, c-i-r-n-o like a french person would pronounce

[@BM-13_KATYUSHA]

If it depends on the country I should call her цирно pronounced as tszir-no??? Now that's cursed!

[@DeltaPie]

Not necessarily, I'm just saying that most people usually only use one pronunciation that comes from their native language.

[@dylanholven6375]

The correct pronouncement is cheese

[@DeltaPie]

I do mention that. Perhaps that's correct in Russian, though it does not translate much.

[@Thatonedude917]

I always said sir-no but I've always been wrong

[@timur_glazkov]

What if it's cheer-no because ZUN want us to be happy.

[@master106]

See-er-noh

[@thanksforyouropinion2682]

chill no

[@Mama-Luigi]

sear-no works the best i think cheer-no is probably the best but i feel like the ch is kinda the same as ru

[@annwong3317]

I called cirno cheerows

[@gavinsepicgaming9835]

chiruno is the japanese pronunciation and sirno is the english one, and however you would say it automatically in your language is probably right for that language too, same with "tei" in english its tewi but there is no w so its tei in japanese

[@RedMinjo]

Just like the word Japanese word すこし SuKoShi can become the English word Skosh, slurring out the u and i sounds, the Japanese チルノ ChiRuNo can become English by slurring out the u, sounding like cheer-no.

[@Kitsunegami]

that is not really a rule though, its mostly how people prefer to pronounce it like some people pronounce the word desu as des, or desU but yes cheer-no is appropiate given even the japanese pronounce it that way some times.

[@koolaidguy315]

cirno doesnt even look like a word anymore..

[@teinaka]

Чирно!

[@AmericanCaesarian]

CHUR-O

[@heehee697]

at 1:09 in Chinese , is "qi-lu-nuo“ ， not ”qi-lu-nou"

[@DeltaPie]

Whoops! That may have been a typo on my part, sorry.

[@thefunborgpl]

whatever way you pronounce cirno i think wa all can agrre that cirno would pronounce it wrong

[@chewtag]

i always said churno because sir and kur sounded strange