Is This the NEW GOLDEN Standard for Communication? (I3C) EB#60

[@anispinner]

I4C (i-foresee) the next protocol! :)

[@SmileyFace01]

IC what you did there :D

[@BogdanSorlea]

you mean "I foresee the next protocol: I4C" - a name just like PHP :))

[@ScreamingSquirrel]

That’s the protocol where you receive the data before you send it, right?

[@Zardwark]

I can't wait for I6C 🙂

[@sirtra]

​@@ZardwarkU26C for that hat, is what i think about that

[@semicolontransistor]

The tantalum capacitor polarity marking is one of those things that will get you every time. At least you limited the current to prevent more exciting things like it catching fire or blowing up in your face.

[@SmileyFace01]

oh man these little things scared me when I blew them for the first time.. they sure pack a lot of booms and bangs for their size

[@nikethunner2732]

is there a good reason for that strange change? Breaking design conventions (the line for minus is not only on electrolytic caps, but also on diodes etc.) for no reason sounds like a recipe for a disaster

[@russellzauner]

even when installed correctly, they almost always fail as a short and *burn* lol wikipedia says "eject burning core" no lie, I laughed a bit when I read that. They're great if you need them but I would never intentionally design them into something - most of the time I saw engineers patching them in when their circuits wouldn't work so great with other caps, but most other caps fail as an *open* (sometimes gradually failing so, making it more likely the intercept before full failure). They were always easy to debug because they'd be literally cracked most of the time if they had failed and of those they were frequently cracked with a black burnt spot in the middle of the crack.

[@MIDNITE69]

EXCITING

[@sebastian19745]

Well, is quite simple, tantalum capacitors and diodes have the positive terminal marked, being thd or smd. Easy, right?

[@aarong9378]

I just love watching the solder reflow.

[@greatscottlab]

Haha me too ;-)

[@serversurfer6169]

It makes me seriously consider building electronics. 😜

[@winnie6979]

Dynamic address assignment doesn't work as what most might expect. The DAA process assumes all devices have different provisional IDs to start with. Stupidly enough, the I3C standards makes provisional IDs optionally randomly assigned by the manufacturer. Many manufacturers choose to give all ICs the same provisional ID rather than add a factory-programmed ramdom ID. As a result, when starting the DAA process, you must connect the chips one at a time. Connecting multiple at a time during DAA means multiple ICs will respond to the same address assignment, completely negating the DAA feature. It's dumb, they were so close to making a good protocol, but making it optional effectively makes it no more useful than having address pins on an i2c device.

[@SmileyFace01]

Aww.. I was excited when I heard it has daa. Such a let down. edit: the provisional ID is 48 bits for anyone wondering and my hopes are that manufacturers will at the very least try to implement it correctly.. but even the allmighty usb specs are getting ruined by manufacturers..

[@bartomiej368]

It is stupid anyway, because if every sensor got assigned address automaticaly, then you have all sensors initialized, but don't know which is which.

[@uzlonewolf]

@@bartomiej368 As long as each has a unique address you can just query them for a chip id/type to figure out what they are.

[@eldorado3523]

what I don't understand is how there's a myriad of single wire auto-addressing protocols around like LIN and I3C still failed at a task LIN and the likes has been doing since 20 years ago.

[@TheNamelessOne12357]

But if all devices already have unique addresses and you can enumerate and access them, why would you want to change it?

[@fatelectron734]

Earlier the merrier. I was really falling behind on my coursework in my engineering degree. Since I found you channel, this has revamped my interest in Electronics. Thanks a lot Scott. Danke

[@greatscottlab]

Awesome. Love to hear that :-)

[@cyby124]

this channel is the reason i got interested in EE😂 now i watch every video and im subbed.

[@TheWeepingCorpse]

I2c = i squared c I3c = i cubed c

[@solarcrystal5494]

no a cube has 6 faces

[@machmar]

​@@solarcrystal5494 and a square has 4 sides

[@6489Tankman]

​@@solarcrystal5494PWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAOMGYOUARESOFUNNYMAN

[@ripplerxeon]

I4c = I foresee LOL

[@thefailxtreme]

I triangle c?

[@paulroberto2286]

Babe, wake up! new communications protocol just dropped!

[@greatscottlab]

Well, not completely new. Has been around for years.

[@sussudio]

I just told my wife. She wasn't impressed...

[@rexsceleratorum1632]

@@sussudio Did you tell her that it is capable of 12MHz?

[@ІгорАлієв]

​@@rexsceleratorum16321 extra wire and use 62.5MHz SPI:)

[@cyby124]

spam?

[@60mithai]

Videos like these is why I love your content! I originally did EE but ended up in software, did not manage to carry forward any wealth of knowledge from university. But now i have kinda reignited my hobby electronics phase hoping to finally implement some dream projects, and your videos are very helpful in info and frugality ( this is an expensive hobby after all). Thanks for your hard work.

[@Sharkiuli]

shoudn't we call i3c "i cub c"?

[@calamity3457]

Just wanted to add that there are a handful of STM32 micros that support I3C. As an example, the STM32H503 supports it. The official NUCLEO-H503 devboard is $15 or the micro itself is around $3 to $4. There might be cheaper options from ST, but I personally own a NUCLEO-H503 which is why it came to mind

[@conorstewart2214]

Other STM32H5 MCUs have I3C too (I haven’t checked but it might be all) and the NXP N series have I3C too.

[@oliverer3]

Nordics nRF54 series has it too, I learned recently to my delight!

[@bagibadoo439]

First thing to do before plugging in power on a board is using a multimeter to test the resistance between power and ground. If you get 0 or too low you can find the error without destroying any other components.

[@heikoindenbirken819]

Pullup vs. Push-Pull. You can improve the speed of pullups by using a current source instead of a simple resistor. Push-Pull has a little problem when one device pulls low and another one pulls high. A problem for I²C clock stretching or multi-master. But even for this we can have a simple solution if we use a master with a lower current output than a client. In fact, most of the modern Push-Pull outputs are current sources with no problem shortened to Vcc or GND.

[@nopparuj]

More uncommon and useful IC videos please, something like ideal diode ic etc.

[@greatscottlab]

Noted! Thanks for the feedback :-)

[@Alacritous]

There's tons of those.

[@nopparuj]

@@Alacritous well, I like Greatscott’s quality.

[@princebanini]

I love how you openly own your mistakes. you're a great engineer❤❤

[@t7732155980]

There is a hidden gem in the Video, initial power up debug ! great. Thanks

[@jmirodg7094]

good to see again a video where I learn something. Thanks.

[@nicolasm1890]

As always, a clear and informative video. Thanks, GreatScott

[@WhoGenePro]

Incredible work!!! I love to see the details on i3c! Was planning a modular bms on i2c, but i3c is clearly the superior choice based on what I saw in this video. It addresses every issue we were concerned about and will likely lower our costs in the end.

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks for the feedback :-)

[@KnightsWithoutATable]

The features of I3C that it adds make it where more complicated projects are going to use it. As micro controllers roll out with support for it built in, you will see more people and devices using it. Same thing happened with I2C. From a project standpoint, the interrupt feature alone is incredibly useful since the pins on a board are always a limiting factor on what your micro controller is going to be doing at the end of the day without putting peripherals or shields on it to get more. Inputs and outputs limiting you are always a problem when you are doing large projects with PLCs as well, so unless you are staying small, the same thing is going to happen here. Now the bandwidth is going to let you do some much higher grade data for the micro-controller to work with, so look for it also allowing better robots and other feedback based projects. You'd be surprised what upping the resolution on an ADC input for a PID will do for stability.

[@juanmacias5922]

I will see you next time! :D

[@greatscottlab]

;-)

[@briantw99]

Haptic feedback is very important - we lost something when cellphones stopped having physical keyboards, but at least a little vibration here and there helps!

[@lazymass]

I am the one who always turns off every vibration feedback, really hate it, at least at the current state on phones, which uses vibration motor, thus isn't very nice.

[@lunlunnnnn]

​@@lazymass higher end phones actually have much better haptics. i agree that the ones with imbalanced weights on a motor SUCK, but whatever higher end phones use can be controlled way more precisely and is actually nice to use

[@cutemartinj]

That reflow is so satisfying to watch! Really cool update on I³C!

[@Механизм-ж9я]

I3C can be a better replacement for SPI driven LCDs. 2 wires instead of tipical 6. I3C can be implemented in raspberry pi pico PIO.

[@greatscottlab]

true true

[@rabiddawgr]

Not a chance, if it tops out at only 12.5 Mhz

[@tarakivu8861]

You can already use I2C for that.. but good luck with dot matrix displays with higher resolution.. you need more bandwidth for that

[@superCTB]

​@@tarakivu8861 More bandwidth? Do you mean like in the I3C?

[@rabiddawgr]

@@superCTB Enough to drive character displays pretty fast. Not nearly enough for a general purpose LCD. For that one should really be looking at SPI. Of course if you don't need fast updates and your content is mostly static, then it will probably do the job.

[@RobRoschewsk]

Wouldn’t it be eye-cubed-see

[@johnwest7993]

The 'line' or angled edge on ALL tantalum SMT capacitors I have ever seen (a million or more) was the positive end of the device.

[@hobbesip1]

Thank you for the intro to a new protocol I didn't even know had a new version! Time will tell if it catches on.

[@Anonymousg64]

I do i2c reinit dynamicly already, i can hot plug sensors that get detected and initialized and if any has errors or is no longer detected, it reinits. Works

[@timothymaimone8611]

Glad you found that discrepancy with the polarity marking on the SMD capacitor! Obviously it was not a noob mistake and you actually had to review the data sheet.

[@nrdgrrrl]

I3C you're blowing my mind right now.

[@CNC-Time-Lapse]

Those little breakout boards are so cool.

[@Smokeisprogress]

I understood a little of this, 🥴. I do try to stay up to date on new developments and appreciate the practical example you provided.👍

[@NicolasAuer-j2f]

Nices Video, steckt sicher viel Arbeit dahinter!

[@MCsCreations]

Awesome! Really interesting stuff indeed! 😃 Thanks for the lesson! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@CraigHollabaugh]

Congratulations with the Keysight sponsorship. That capacitor labeling is a pain. Thanks for the tip.

[@RanaRao_Chandrachur]

Hey Scott, I really miss your "& ohhhhh boy" vibe.. .yeah your vibe come to India, love from here ❤

[@User-pi3nf]

Please make a video on the reflow soldering device it looks so good

[@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse]

The reflow plate is a Miniware MHP-30. There's definitely some really good overviews/reviews or usage guides out there already!

[@mme725]

It's odd how you use "i-squared-c" and "i-three-c" You would think youd either pair i-two-c and i-three-c together, or i-squared-c qnd i-cubed-c. Mixing and matching whether to say the number or the exponent is odd lol Just a minor nitpick on my part😅

[@greatscottlab]

Haha yes. I get what you mean. I double checked though and these are the "official" pronunciations of I2C and I3C.

[@DavidMulligan]

Maybe "I Cubed C” will catch on.

[@stefflus08]

What will I⁴C be?

[@johnwest7993]

@@greatscottlab, descriptors are often created quite randomly early adopters of a device and it becomes whatever they say. For instance, 'FET' would logically be pronounced as 'feet' since the E represents the word 'effect', but it isn't.

[@TheWingAnthony]

@@stefflus08 I-tesseracted-C

[@jimjjewett]

Thank you for mentioning the I3C ... I had wondered if that protocol was abandonware. Apparently not, or at least not yet.

[@kautkascitadaks]

For future projects, All tantalum capacitors, including wet type tantalum electrolyte capacitors have plus side marked.

[@cuf_]

Almost 2 mil! hoping to see a fun 2 mil special!

[@4mb127]

You need peripherals for I3C... Or a Raspberry Pico with PIO.

[@greatscottlab]

True

[@conorstewart2214]

It’s exactly the same any time a new protocol comes out, eventually it will come as standard on all MCUs, especially as it is backwards compatible with I2C.

[@LonnonFoster]

Great intro to I3C. Sounds like a joy to work with, assuming you get some assistance from the mcu itself and you don't have to write your own driver for it.

[@musictitles3235]

I love this channel ❤❤

[@GlennHamblin]

Interesting, but I'm not sure if it will catch on. We already have high speed serial interfaces at the expense of another wire or two. And most I2C communication is fast enough for most of its use cases. Time will tell.

[@Alacritous]

I3C can (depending on implementation) coax higher speeds out of legacy I2C equipment. up to 5 Mbps in some cases.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

If it's based on vibrations, this would allow us to have cans with string communications at higher rates than with standard ones

[@lorenzo.c]

As you say, I struggle to see the unique selling point of I3C over SPI apart from fewer wires. For example: why would the manufacturer of an OLED display controller include I3C when the pinout already supports SPI? Device requiring a bitrate in the order of several Mbps like DAC and ADC are already based on I2S, a specific serial communication standard. SD carda have their own standard and many devices like wireless transceivers rely on SDIO derived from it. From the comment kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJ6xoYyFjrFqidU&lc=UgyGYYGoelgV64f82fB4AaABAg&ab_channel=GreatScott%21 I gather that the dynamic addressing has not been implemented in a way that would make the case for adoption compelling.

[@conorstewart2214]

@@lorenzo.c you are missing one of the major advantages of I2C and I3C, they are designed to be used with many devices on the same bus. Sure you can connect multiple devices on the same SPI bus but you need to use slave select lines to select which one you want to communicate with which adds even more wires. An SPI bus with 4 slaves needs the 3 wires for the base protocol plus 4 slave select lines and that only increase with more slaves. With I2C and I3C you can connect many more devices with just two wires. I2C and I3C aren’t replacements for SPI or I2S, they are different protocols for different use cases.

[@Axolotroll]

Honestly can't wait - this is like PD 3.1 going up to 48 volts, the specs for it's greatness are established but now we have to wait for it to enter the scene at large scale. For me, the hot connect feature would be awesome to make modular contraptions...

[@hejasverigeee]

Wow - very close to 2mn! Greetings from Stockholm Sweden Europe 🇩🇪🇸🇪

[@paulushdk]

ive never heared of I3C but its awesome!!

[@gidsvids8320]

Excited to see you using Microchip's Curiosity Nano

[@olafschermann1592]

Thank you for i3c overview

[@JanTecEngineering]

0:24 Love the to be or not to be poster!

[@greatscottlab]

;-) got it from displate (not sponsored)

[@EdwinFairchild]

STM32H5 series, STM32H7R3/7S3 line, STM32H7R7/7S7 line have i3c , i still haven't played around with it but looks interesting.

[@bzqp2]

If you keep the convention of "2" in I2C meaning "square" then I3C sounds like Yoda playing Minecraft.

[@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse]

Luckily there's a definite correct way to pronounce it, and that's definitely I-three-C. That's because I2C and I3C are modified acronyms. People pronouncing it as I-squared-C are just stylizing it for themselves, but it's not the official spelling. The I2C was picked over IIC because IIC is hard to read and recognize whilst I2C is definitely a unique identifying set of syllables that would come to become widely recognized through that. I2C = IIC = Inter-IC Comms I3C = (nothing) = Improved Inter-IC Comms I3C never started as IIIC (three I's) because they learned from their mistakes.

[@sansmojo]

​@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse I have no idea who's right as far as original intention, but I decided years ago that saying squared is stupid. I only say it "eye two see" and everyone else can just deal with it and I'll do the same with three. If you want me to call it squared or cubed, then change the notation to match.

[@ocelotmadness6287]

​@@AnnaVannieuwenhuyseusing 2 instead of squared was decided because it's difficult to the squared symbol on a US keyboard without alt codes, but it's officially I-squared-C. Doesn't matter that much though, you can say it wrong and people will still know what your talking about.

[@caglarabatay316]

Thanks Scott..

[@gosdeCarrer]

What they should do is a new standard single wire protocol, bi-directional. For many devices and situations that would be perfect and simplify things a lot.

[@suji730]

I think you have to continue beginner's video 😂 Day by day it's hard to realize (not all) but some things ..... About 13C protocols.. Thnx bro❤

[@greatscottlab]

:-)

[@Arduino_and_Redstone_Pro]

Hi, could you make a updated video of your glowing stairs? Would be nice :-)

[@greatscottlab]

Hopefully very soon ;-)

[@bornontheusa408]

awesome! keep it up bro! nice vids

[@JeromeDemers]

Hey the founder of Boréas (Simon) is a friend of mine from University!!

[@teamllr3137]

Got the same capacitor mistake from 5:25 while assembling my school robot, it blew up with a lot of smoke, but it was face down behind connectors so at least it didn't hurt me

[@BogdanSorlea]

maybe the solution for I3C is a compromise (maybe already existing, as interoperability with I2C devices should have been desired/considered?) where you can still have a I2C-only device join the bus, configured with a static address and then ensure that the communication to and from it happens at I2C levels and routines, although I'm not fully sure how an I2C bus connection would need to be augmented to ensure signal consistency, etc - but again, unsure if I3C is designed with such backwards compatibility. maybe food for thought, something for you to try out - maybe also in some hacky, bit-banging kind of way

[@ChristieNel]

Very neat and nice I3C intro video! I look forward seeing what you manage to do with it in the future. I've been interested in I3C since Microchip implemented it, but haven't had a reason to use it yet. I2C is actually very complicated to implement professionally - dealing with data corruption, lockup states and recovery sequences, also working at high speed reliably for things like I2C displays and multiple devices on the same bus. An I2C host implementation also adds another level of complexity. May I recommend testing one complete board before soldering the rest?

[@Stuart-AJC]

Just a suggestion for the English versions of the videos, it should be Gold Standard (not Golden). I know that doesn't make sense grammatically, but it's a standard for gold, not a type of standard (if that makes sense 🙃)

[@itsjameswhat678]

this was bugging me too

[@optimalchoice270]

Thanks!

[@mrpickles619]

Wake up babe, I2C2 just dropped

[@stefanjohansson1234]

But does it have a bad motivator?

[@testman9541]

So I3C is more like a SMBus replacement I guess... For more beefy bus I would look at 10base T1S that support power PoDL and bus topology or repeater... The T1L variant is interresting and it is still ethernet, so IP/UDP, etc 🎉

[@innomkr]

Thank you for the great video!

[@greatscottlab]

My pleasure!

[@stdorn]

I just did the same thing with a tantalum cap adding filters to an esp32. I dont get it was always stripe - on through hole and stripe cathode on diodes for decades. What joker decided it should be oppisite on polarity of a sensitive device that can start a fire. Smart, real smart. I had no idea there was an I3C.

[@piconano]

I think this protocol would have more of a military application like reading sensors on a missile, or where sensors/modules have to be read quickly and often. Engineering is about compromise. This protocol is multi-master like I2C and unlike SPI, which can have only one master.

[@jlucasound]

Hi Scott! 😍🤩😜😃

[@docnielsen]

First! Also, cant wait to upgrade all my i2c gadgets to i3c.

[@greatscottlab]

Congrats 🙂Well, let's see when I3C catches on. Not so sure yet....

[@kentswan3230]

Future multi mode peripherals will likely have to have a single pin that selects I2C or I3C. I'd have to get deeper into it to see how an I3C controller handles pure I2C including pullups.

[@AD34534]

That mini hotplate is SO COOL.

[@ivictoriouss]

we got I3C before GTA6

[@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece]

fairly certain the simplicity was the point. Otherwise you could just use any of the other faster protocols.

[@greg4367]

I'm going to run right out and buy myself one of those US$10K o'scopes!

[@markusbecker3136]

I3C and haptic feedback? Doc Brown would be excited 🤓

[@MyPhone-qg2eh]

If I3C becomes standard and reliable it would be a good improvement for robotics or industrial.

[@Ajaykrishna97_]

2:21 the most beautiful thing ever ❤️

[@hempbear]

Wait a minute... it wasn't just an accident, you didn't *know* about the tantalum polarity line thing? Come on Scott :)

[@pararera6394]

Seems like he has footprint without line on one end. 😅

[@jodylang8781]

Neat!

[@greatscottlab]

Thanks :-)

[@russellzauner]

I3C can be used to stream legit HDR video. I can't wait to test an HDR video stream over something like LoRa-type links or meshes from the middle of nowhere.

[@CZThomasCZ003]

I've done a RTL design of an I3C Controller for my Master's thesis and oh boy, is the I3C protocol specification pdf long

[@Electronieks]

I2C is from I I C , so 2 i's and a C

[@zapl80]

For i3c they simply added another "i" word: Improved Inter Integrated Circuit And it's obviously a proprietary standard with membership fees, unlike I²C where patents have expired

[@fn_eddy]

Imho the most important addition is that they removed clock stretching 😬. Maybe I am the only one but somehow my responders always died during clk stretch and the watchdog didn’t hit …

[@conorstewart2214]

The list of MCUs with I3C is longer than the list you showed. The STM32H5 series and NXP N series both have I3C as well. You can get STM32H5 nucleo boards pretty cheaply and easily too.

[@X3msnake]

if I2C is I squared C shouldn't I3C it be I Cubed C?

[@furank_i]

Make a full video on I3C sometime!

[@kuromad]

It will be a while, but maybe this will allow some components that now use the SPI bus to move to I3C.

[@nikschez5075]

Why not call it IcubeC?

[@greatscottlab]

Good question....

[@uwezimmermann5427]

As a student working extra shifts in the mid-1990s I was hand-soldering smd components onto circuit boards for a small start-up company. I soldered quite a few boards during my first night shift and went home happily. The next day I was told that someone had to correct all my mistakes - I had soldered all tantalum capacitors in the wrong way - also assuming that the thick line was the negative marker as on the aluminum electrolytics which I was familiar with... Why, why, why.... why is it the positive electrode on tantalums which has a stripe as a marking? Of course it cannot be changed now, since it has been established over decades, but still, why?

[@MarianKeller]

Always wondered why they won't just change the design to include a little plus sign to reduce the ambiguity. Recently used some high-power SMD LEDs that had clear + and - markings. Beautiful.

[@damc7456]

Any suggestions what the best wireless protocol is for overcoming shielding? I want to receive a signal from inside a metal container that's inside a metal fridge. RF, bluetooth, ESP-NOW, 802.11? I'm also an FPV drone tinkerer, so could potentially use ELRS or similar.

[@sobertillnoon]

I hope one day I have enough money to get a proper scope.

[@greatscottlab]

I bet you can do it ;-) Until then, there are also budget friendly scopes available ;-) I did videos about those as well

[@craftingcat99]

5:27 im not sure but this cap looks like a tantalum capacitor, and those are pretty much always (annoyingly) marked on the positive side. In comparison to pretty much all other capacitor types with a polarity, which are marked on the negative side.

[@RobStark-fw6ig]

Hi scott, Please can you make a video on rf based rx and tx modules with least components with speed of allmost 10kbps that uses one way transmission and have range about 200 meters.... Please try this project i am not getting good results with rf 433mhz rx and tx boards .... And i also want to learn about them more.....🤔

[@danielungureanu430]

Great!

[@desmond-hawkins]

"When" I3C will catch on? It first came out in *late 2016* and was discussed as far back as 2014. I mean, it's possible that it's just about to become popular after 8 years and with almost no devices supporting it, sure. This video might not really help its popularity when it ends with "I2C is sufficient", but who knows… maybe it will succeed. It is technically possible.

[@BRUXXUS]

Even with a few years of experience working with microcontrollers and peripherals, I've somehow only ever used SPI. 🤔

[@inventorkr1]

the NEW GOLDEN Standard

[@RWBHere]

Interesting. But as I understand it, I²C can run at up to 5 Mbps in Ultra Fast Mode in embedded applications. If that's correct, there isn't much of an advantage in using I³C for simpler systems.

[@gudenau]

Have you covered CAN yet? It's being replaced with CAN-FD, Flexray and in some edge cases Ethernet in modern cars but it's still a pretty robust and simple networking protocol.